IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Saturday, 2012-07-14

« Friday, 2012-07-13 Index Sunday, 2012-07-15 »
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lufTo break the silence :) I want to say that I succesfully use obexd-0.45 with PBAP.03:23
lufThe wrong part is that it doesn't fix the problem with my handsfree. Some contacts has number from another one and some names are missing.03:23
lufBTW what I have to do to put newer bluez (still need some tweak) and obexd into cssu?03:24
lufBTW whole weekend I'll be away even without phone signal :D03:25
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Timmo_peace ppl05:56
Timmo_every thing goes about positive05:57
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kerioso... the operator name applet is wrong13:38
keriowhich is your (cssu) problem, because you forced it on me13:39
keriomy operator has a weird thing where it uses another operator for gsm13:39
kerionational roaming, or something13:40
kerioanyway, the operator widget doesn't update correctly when i switch between gsm and umts13:40
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: obviously opernamewidget should go13:52
keriofucking indeed13:52
DocScrutinizer05which I hope it will for next CSSU-T update13:52
DocScrutinizer05once some cracks explained to me CSSU can't roll back any pkg ever delivered. Have to thing about a way to prove them wrong13:53
DocScrutinizer05think*13:53
keriowell, it's true, isn't it13:54
keriono, wait13:54
DocScrutinizer05if we can't bump version of original operator widget, we probably need a MP13:54
keriojust don't depend on it, it'll get autoremoved13:54
kerioin theory13:55
DocScrutinizer05haha13:55
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keriodon't mock me :c13:55
DocScrutinizer05sorry13:55
keriois the widget in cssu-s?13:56
DocScrutinizer05was a bitter self-ironic haha13:56
DocScrutinizer05thank god it's not13:56
keriotesting is here for a reason, "remove that package if you want" is enough13:56
DocScrutinizer05yep13:56
DocScrutinizer05just alowing removal13:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you could also fix the bug!13:56
DocScrutinizer05the main bug is the applet itself, which conflicts with other alternative opername applets13:57
keriocouldn't the original package be replaced?13:57
DocScrutinizer05err, that's what this CBSMS-widget does13:58
keriono, i mean13:58
kerioreplace the original package13:59
keriothe nokia one13:59
DocScrutinizer05sorry, you lost me13:59
keriohow do alternative widgets work?13:59
DocScrutinizer05replace where? by what?13:59
kerioi don't know D:14:00
keriowhy does it have to conflict with other widgets if it's just an upgrade to the stock one?14:00
DocScrutinizer05smscb-widget afaik has a conflicting dependency with the original, so kicks out the original14:00
keriowhy isn't *it* the original?14:01
keriowe're cssu14:01
* DocScrutinizer05 sips on his coffee and wonders who's the one not awake now14:01
kerioi mean, why doesn't it have the same name as the stock widget, with a higher version?14:02
* DocScrutinizer05 sips a bit more, to make sure there's a long way yet to full-awake state14:02
DocScrutinizer05nfc, kerio14:03
DocScrutinizer05I'm not a packager14:03
DocScrutinizer05I'm just the bitching asshole with a clue about everything but capable of nothing14:03
kerioneat, me too14:04
kerioanyway, the stock opname widget looked fine to me14:04
DocScrutinizer05indeed it was my fault14:05
kerioif people want cell broadcast, they can just install an extra widget for it14:05
kerioi mean, an actual widget14:05
DocScrutinizer05I didn't realize the optional nature of this cbsms-widget. Neither the implications with other alternative opername pkgs14:06
kerioit's oj14:06
keriook14:06
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kerio:)14:06
DocScrutinizer05somebody said "I give a fsck about custom-oper-name widget. It's a dirty botcch anyway" and I agreed :-S14:08
DocScrutinizer05~spank DocScrutinizer0514:08
* infobot bends DocScrutinizer05 over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on DocScrutinizer05's pasty white buttocks.14:08
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kerioyou like it don't ya14:09
kerioyou dirty bitch14:09
kerioerhm14:09
DocScrutinizer05I contributed to it, and that got me biased and blind14:09
keriowhat?14:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: oh, so you can fix it14:10
DocScrutinizer05nah, it's jonwil's baby14:10
DocScrutinizer05I only helped14:10
keriohm14:10
DocScrutinizer05now I think it's my duty to move it to cssu-optional14:11
DocScrutinizer05or kill it for now14:12
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if merlin1991 already has an ETA for cssu-optional infra14:13
DocScrutinizer05DANG, mail from work at weekends14:19
DocScrutinizer05luckily with a "INVALID, WONTFIX" :-)14:19
DocScrutinizer05well, kinda. For our domain it's INVALID14:20
kerioDocScrutinizer05: extras-devel, aka cssu-optional?14:21
DocScrutinizer05well, they are twins14:22
DocScrutinizer05somewhat14:22
DocScrutinizer05cssu-optional kinda is to cssu what extras(-devel) is to maemo14:23
DocScrutinizer05though our concept is from top-down back on its feet, since every repo has its own optional pkgs14:24
kerioyou know what else is like extras(-devel) to maemo, but for cssu?14:24
kerioextras(-devel)14:24
DocScrutinizer05sure, but then I have to agree deploying opername applets in extras(-*) repos is a botch, as it messes with core maemo system and that's a cssu domain14:25
DocScrutinizer05well, we probably could ship the fixed7patched libsms.so via cssu-core and the applet via extras14:26
DocScrutinizer05still not clean, but at least not worse than the other opername applets14:27
DocScrutinizer05I'd probably do it that way, for now14:28
DocScrutinizer05iirc jonwil been eager to ship it via cssu, again driven by odd understanding of what cssu is meant to be14:29
kerioDocScrutinizer05: and still no KP51 :c15:47
DocScrutinizer05and each time you bitch about it, it gets delayed another week15:48
keriocan i make the counter wrap around so it was released two billion years ago?15:49
keriobecause that's what they're hoping to do for half life 3, i think15:49
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kerioeventually, cssu will ship a new battery meter, right?17:21
keriocan i get some kind of icon for the charging battery? like a plug in the battery or something?17:21
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I support that17:46
DocScrutinizer05the animation is kinda... annoyingly indifferent17:46
Lava_Croftanimation is fine, the only thing that should change is its base image17:47
Lava_Croftcurrently the base image does not reflect how much charge is left17:47
Lava_Croftcharging animation starts at zero and ends at full17:48
DocScrutinizer05which is meanlingless during charge anyway17:48
DocScrutinizer05somewhat at least17:48
Lava_Croftits annoying to not be able to see how charged the battery is17:49
Lava_Croft(from the icon, when charging)17:49
DocScrutinizer05I'm not averse agiainst animation, but there should be a better distinguishable icon for sure17:49
Lava_Croftoh, the icon works fine for me17:49
Lava_Croftdont think cssu should change that kind of art anyway17:49
Lava_Croftwithout some really good reason17:49
DocScrutinizer05a) we got no proper info about how much charge in battery, during charging17:49
Lava_Croftcan easily be done by starting the animation from the current charge image17:50
DocScrutinizer05b) using same icon for discharging and charging is no brilliant idea, no matter how nifty any animation pattern you use17:50
Lava_Crofti think the battery entry in the status menu is whoefully empty tho!17:50
Lava_Croftif its discharging, its not animating like when its charging17:52
Lava_Croftso thats quite easy to distinguish17:52
DocScrutinizer05c) IF we could display charge percentage and charging by only animation of current uni icon, it would mean charging state of an almost full battery (so we ever find a way to tell battery is almost full) would be pretty much invisible17:53
DocScrutinizer05and no, to distinguish animation from no animation, you by definition have to watch the icon for a certain timespan17:53
DocScrutinizer05so it's per se not "easy to distinguish"17:54
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keriolightning or plug in the battery icon and level that reflects the battery's level is a good idea to me17:55
DocScrutinizer05that's the reason why you generally don't use animation in any professional data display, as primary source of info17:56
DocScrutinizer05kerio: ++17:56
DocScrutinizer05though, as mentioned above, we have no proper value for charge level during charging17:56
DocScrutinizer05at least not always17:57
kerioDocScrutinizer05: sssssh17:57
keriothat's not important17:57
DocScrutinizer05blinking warning lamp that's maybe on for 200ms and off for 800ms is a massive safety risk, as odds are the user looks at display 5 times and never sees warning lamp is actually on18:01
DocScrutinizer05IF you're using blinking or animated display elements, those have to refresh state at a rate >8Hz18:02
DocScrutinizer05to use a house number18:02
DocScrutinizer05not entirely house number, as there's such a thing like a minimum timespan human brain needs to look at one picture to decode it at all18:03
DocScrutinizer05refresh rate of blinking or animated displays has to be well less than that timespan18:03
DocScrutinizer05well, in case of rate, probably "higher" is the right term18:04
DocScrutinizer05or "faster"18:04
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DocScrutinizer05for battery charge animation, that's clearly not given18:05
DocScrutinizer05and due to CPU load, we don't want to speed up anim to fix that18:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: which warning lamp? :o18:06
DocScrutinizer05so I'm for a dedicated charging icon18:06
kerio^_^18:06
DocScrutinizer05kerio: the "reactor goes boom!" or "your fuel is empty!" warning lamp, pick any you want18:07
DocScrutinizer05rule of thumb: any picture taken of the scene should always contain all available info of that moment18:08
DocScrutinizer05a screenshot of N900 qouldn't at all show if battery is charging or not18:09
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keriowe were saying18:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: would that require a preference pane and a way to configure it?18:10
kerioi mean, eventually cssu will need a new battery meter18:10
DocScrutinizer05kerio: please rephrase18:10
kerioshould the animationless battery icon be the default?18:10
DocScrutinizer05kerio: cssu might eventually get an alternative battery meter, esp to cope with kernel-based bme replacement from PK18:11
kerioyep, because of that18:11
kerioand hostmode18:11
DocScrutinizer05emphasis on alternative18:11
DocScrutinizer05as in "optional alternative"18:11
DocScrutinizer05optional like opt-in (or maybe even opt-out), alternative as "conflicts with original battery meter"18:12
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kerioso bme will stay in maemo forever?18:14
DocScrutinizer05and I could think of user creating her own icons (even animated) for charging and discharging state18:14
DocScrutinizer05there's no bug reported against bme that would justify a mandatory kick-out of system in cssu18:15
DocScrutinizer05anb believe me, a LOT of users feel scared by any messing with BatteryManagementEntity18:16
kerioi'm not so convinced that "closed source" is not a good enough reason to replace18:16
keriohm :c18:17
DocScrutinizer05kerio: closed source never been any of the valid reasons to mandatorily replace a (sub)system via CSSU18:17
DocScrutinizer05I mean, who except RMS would notice any difference while using this system with foss alternative?18:18
DocScrutinizer05qui bono?18:18
keriobme doesn't support portrait mode! /s18:19
DocScrutinizer05"here Frank, look at this! It looks just like before, but now it's based on FOSS!" ??18:19
DocScrutinizer05honestly we got other trouble than closed source in bme18:21
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: like what?18:25
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