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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:54 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: morning | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | any comments to my confused monologue? | 10:38 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Short version: HAM is designed to not let Extras packages disrupt the system; and its support for Replaces/Conflicts/Provides is limited at best | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh :-/ - thanks for enlightening me about that annoying fact | 10:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | so how about keeping cssu MP as small as possible? | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean fools are allowed to even uninstall kernels ;-) | 10:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (powerkernel) | 10:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so I think we could reasonably remove some packages from cssu MP prison and allow user to meddle with them as she likes | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think of stripping down the system from all components until reaching point of no return. I.E. HAM shouldn't be removable ;-) | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe xterm also should be mandatory and thus in MP | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure about dialer even | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sure there are system admins that would love to nuke mediaplayer, gallery, tracker... | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | tracker for sure | 10:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | as they are using the device as a mere remote terminal to maintain their server farm | 10:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | (sure there've been ways to do this, but I think we shouldn't perpetuate Nokia's somewhat odd concept of forcing a particular system/apps config onto users' devices) | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | so my question is: do we *need* the cssu MP? | 10:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | if yes, then how much of the stuff do we need in there? | 10:56 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: mp-fremantle-community-pr *is* stripped down massively compared with mp-fremantle-generic-pr | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | AIUI the MP is also a major obstacle when it comes to finegrained updates /per-app-updates, which is a thing we often asked Nokia for | 11:00 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Which is why one of the enabler tasks is to mark all the old Depends packages as "manually installed", since fapman has a tendency to run apt-get autoremove regularly | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: Oh, excellent :-))) | 11:00 |
| Jaffa | So, after installing the CSSU, you can apt-get remove calendar (for example) | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: (autoremove) I had that tendency also once - killed my SIP :-P | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I'm really all joy to learn that | 11:02 |
| * DocScrutinizer hugs cssu :-) | 11:02 | |
| Jaffa | There's still the issue that you can't apt-get remove modest without removing mp-fremantle-community-pr. But doing that only removes your ability to get CSSU updates through HAM | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | why is modest in MP? | 11:03 |
| Jaffa | And somethings, like Modest, could (theoretically) have a CSSU update which moved them to Section: user/network; and then removed from Depends in a later version (maybe - some niggles to work out) | 11:03 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: So it can be upgraded to a later version than the PR1.3 one by HAM | 11:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess because it's too tightly plumbed into the system? | 11:04 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: More because "the system" thinks it's a system package which isn't user-upgradable | 11:04 |
| Jaffa | Absolutely agreed on anything which is frippery which can be in Extras should be. For example, CSSU MP pulling in a small control panel applet to allow configuration of orientation lock: fine. The apps which let you adjust all of transitions.ini - no. | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 11:06 |
| RST38h | small control panel is also a no | 11:07 |
| RST38h | especially given that it is ALWAYS being forced into your status dock | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's just about who's going to keep an eye on alternative ways to brute-force replacing stock components like camera-ui. If you give this thing a switcher for the /usr/bin/camera-ui symlink, it can become a clean simple extras package instead of irreversibly deleting the original blob | 11:08 |
| RST38h | But, as none of you are doing any actual job on the CSSU (MohammadAG does), this is a purely academic discussion. | 11:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: (mohammad) which is highly appreciated by everybody. Nevertheless I guess he'd also like to get guidance, as it's becoming tedious and non-exciting to decide such things on your own private realm all the time | 11:10 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: The control panel applet would allow you to make it *not* forced into your dock :-p | 11:11 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: And thanks, do I have to point to my merge requests? :-p | 11:11 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Or the bug triaging? Or the wiki work? | 11:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: would you agree on cssu the group yet to defined needs a discussion about implementing a board that decides and guides on such topics? | 11:12 |
| RST38h | Guidance is penny a bunch | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | or will we continue to do this on a holler-to-get-it-removed basis? | 11:14 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I think there does need to be more discussion about it, yes. Camera is a tricky one - yes, Extras packages could rape their way in for a whole load of CSSU stuff, but the potential for hosing a system would seem to be higher overall. | 11:14 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Your meta-guidance is fantastic, as always :-p | 11:14 |
| RST38h | I know, I know | 11:14 |
| RST38h | But then, I am not making any suggestions, merely observing the play | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | rather commenting it ;-P | 11:15 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: True :-) | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, thanks Jaffa - I'll ponder about these new factoids and re-evaluate my plans about sending mail etc :-) | 11:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | also trying to find where things could get hosed and how to avoid that | 11:17 |
| RST38h | http://www.vincenteaton.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/muppet-show5.jpg | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe I'll actually contribute something constructive eventually | 11:18 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I'm glad you're taking an interest. | 11:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | always | 11:18 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Which one are you? Statler or Waldorf? | 11:18 |
| Jaffa | ("Sorry, we're all out of waldorfs") | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | need to keep my favourite device alive for the next years ;-D | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | (muppets) bookmarked :-D | 11:20 |
| RST38h | BOTH, I am having a bipolar disorder! | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | (no surprises) | 11:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer curses lack of color printer | 11:23 | |
| Damnshock | for sure there are system admins that would love to nuke mediaplayer, gallery, tracker... <--- to the hell with tracker! | 11:54 |
| RST38h | And let us also nuke the Phone app and receive all calls from emacs! | 12:00 |
| ThreeM | :) | 12:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: you'd need SHR for this, or debian | 12:06 |
| RST38h | No, let us do this in CSSU! | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | you know a guy who built exactly that for debian/SHR ;-) | 12:06 |
| RST38h | Because I really want all the Mameo users to see how great EMACS is! You can even answer your phone in it! | 12:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can ask Paul to port it to maemo :-D | 12:07 |
| RST38h | Yea, right. Cool idea too. | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I heard emacs is a really great OS that only sucks on one bit: text editing | 12:08 |
| RST38h | I do not think EMACS would agree with you. But wait until they put it into robots and home appliances, it will take its revenge on you then ;) | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas I'm a complete noob on lisp coding | 12:09 |
| Jaffa | I think everyone outside academia is. They just get by ;-) | 12:15 |
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| Damnshock | good morning MoonTiger :) | 13:59 |
| MoonTiger | hey :) | 13:59 |
| MoonTiger | i looked into the imap issue and it seems there are a lot of people working on it and it isn't easy to accomplish apparently | 14:00 |
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| Damnshock | that's unfortunate | 14:01 |
| Damnshock | both for me and for you | 14:02 |
| Damnshock | you won't be getting that meal :P | 14:02 |
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| MoonTiger | hehe | 14:35 |
| MoonTiger | well i am looking into it to see if there is a way that it can be achieved ... maybe i have to be an organizer instead of a coder for example | 14:35 |
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