| *** Pali has quit IRC | 00:16 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has joined #maemo-meeting | 02:12 | |
| *** Sveta has joined #maemo-meeting | 04:01 | |
| Sveta | > The honorary member status was granted to Gido Griese with all participants voting for it. | 04:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Sveta | what is that? | 04:01 |
| *** eLtMosen1 has quit IRC | 04:10 | |
| *** Pali has joined #maemo-meeting | 09:07 | |
| *** Pali has quit IRC | 09:45 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has joined #maemo-meeting | 10:49 | |
| chem|st | Sveta: Gido deceased last year, it is our way to remember him with having his name "on the wall". | 12:11 |
| *** eLtMosen1 has quit IRC | 12:14 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has joined #maemo-meeting | 15:52 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has quit IRC | 16:27 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has joined #maemo-meeting | 17:16 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has quit IRC | 17:34 | |
| *** Pali has joined #maemo-meeting | 18:33 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:52 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has quit IRC | 21:59 | |
| *** eLtMosen1 has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:00 | |
| *** eLtMosen has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:01 | |
| *** eLtMosen has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:01 | |
| eLtMosen | Hi all, still made it somewhat in time due to empty autobahn :D | 22:09 |
| sicelo | hi :-) | 22:17 |
| eLtMosen | Hello sicelo!! | 22:17 |
| sicelo | you were driving? | 22:19 |
| eLtMosen | Yes, i often do ;) Must relaxing part of my job mostly. | 22:19 |
| eLtMosen | Looks like Chemist has an obligation regarding a possible formal error during voting "I don't think that this kind of voting is acceptable..."[17:05utc] | 22:21 |
| sicelo | what speeds you did on the autobahn :p | 22:21 |
| eLtMosen | max with tiny volvo v40 = 225km/h gps measured :D Odometer says 245 then chr chr chr | 22:22 |
| eLtMosen | frankfurt to cologne is mostly no speed limit and downhill for 200km | 22:23 |
| sicelo | you guys live the life, haha | 22:24 |
| eLtMosen | lol, we are resricted in any other part of life though lol Prisoners on speed | 22:25 |
| juiceme | hi! | 22:25 |
| eLtMosen | Hi Jussi!! | 22:25 |
| juiceme | eLtMosen, you got here earlier than I expected! | 22:25 |
| eLtMosen | yes, earlier than police allows hehe | 22:26 |
| juiceme | so you have a new car, last I remeber you had really old Audi :) | 22:26 |
| eLtMosen | i need 3 cars. Foodtruck forwork, audi for wife, volvo for speeding | 22:27 |
| eLtMosen | but as you know all combined cost less than one regular new mediocre car | 22:28 |
| juiceme | regarding the point chem|st raised about commercial intrest joerg might have not declared... well he did not fo that formally but my guess is just about everyone knows about Neo900 project. | 22:28 |
| eLtMosen | ah,ok | 22:28 |
| eLtMosen | yes, i concur, it is common knowledge among allparticipants | 22:29 |
| juiceme | hmm, should I update my sbj1 now that Kiiminkijoki is out? | 22:31 |
| sicelo | what? | 22:31 |
| juiceme | eLtMosen, you updated, any problems? | 22:31 |
| eLtMosen | juice, you should! it is a bomb! | 22:31 |
| juiceme | sbj1 = Jolla model 1 | 22:31 |
| juiceme | ok :) | 22:31 |
| sicelo | ah ok. no jolla for me :( | 22:32 |
| juiceme | yes, well it is still my daily driver, since there's no Neo900 yet :) | 22:32 |
| eLtMosen | Jolla C feels like never before. But i have not tested j1. | 22:33 |
| eLtMosen | Gesture reception is awesome. i had severe trouble with top-down swipe and doubletab to wake up before. That is working like a charm now | 22:34 |
| juiceme | ah, OK, I have no Jolla C any more since I gave it back to eekkelund | 22:34 |
| eLtMosen | atochowski has tested on j1 and also tells it is much faster than before | 22:35 |
| juiceme | yes I think there was some problem for gestures in model C, never with my sbj1, though | 22:35 |
| eLtMosen | atlochowski | 22:35 |
| sicelo | in connection with meeting, Alexander sent a mail about a device he expects. | 22:36 |
| eLtMosen | plesade elaborate | 22:36 |
| juiceme | yes, I meant to check the tsatus today but had no time to do that | 22:37 |
| eLtMosen | still from coding competition? | 22:37 |
| sicelo | eLtMosen: he sent email to council during GA :-) | 22:37 |
| juiceme | GoAlexander is winner #15 | 22:38 |
| juiceme | so not top-of-the-list, but he wants to know if it happens that people in front of him turn down prizes, maybe it will be his turn to het something :) | 22:39 |
| sicelo | ah, | 22:39 |
| eLtMosen | Ah, i see, thanks for explaining | 22:39 |
| sicelo | because indeed i saw he wasn't in the 'prize' list | 22:39 |
| eLtMosen | btw, i have 2 sbj1 to donate for net whatever competition ;) | 22:40 |
| juiceme | nice! | 22:41 |
| juiceme | hmm should we start work to define a new competition? | 22:42 |
| eLtMosen | absolutely | 22:42 |
| juiceme | if it goes like the previous one it indeed takes a *long* time to do | 22:42 |
| eLtMosen | sicelo and me talked about combining it with gido griese fund for ma eposure of both projects | 22:43 |
| eLtMosen | but we had no info how far gido griese fund progressed so far or what the status is | 22:44 |
| juiceme | yes, that is mostly chem|st's doing. | 22:45 |
| juiceme | the idea is to collect devices for loan/donation to developers who have problem getting them. | 22:45 |
| eLtMosen | good, props to chemist, he is very active. i admire that. sad he has difficulties. | 22:45 |
| juiceme | yes | 22:46 |
| eLtMosen | so,i am thinking about a consolidatedeffort to propagate both. | 22:47 |
| eLtMosen | as two seperate things but in one communictaion effort | 22:47 |
| juiceme | at least we can plan both, and then ask for donation campaign smultaneously, people can specify with donation which one they want to support, or both. | 22:48 |
| eLtMosen | yes, eactly | 22:48 |
| eLtMosen | So it is definately coding competition 2018 ;) | 22:50 |
| juiceme | hmm let's be safe and say it will be 2019 :) | 22:51 |
| juiceme | or 2018/2019 | 22:51 |
| eLtMosen | i think we should set ourself a bit more under pressure and say 2018 :D | 22:52 |
| juiceme | hehe | 22:53 |
| eLtMosen | A more groundbreaking thing, i fear 6 month council term is a bit short do accomplish anything | 22:55 |
| juiceme | yes that is true too. it has been seen for some time that council term should probably be at least 12 months; else it is the council needs to start planning the next election just about when they have began... | 22:57 |
| sicelo | :-) | 22:57 |
| eLtMosen | was thinking the same, we would have to prepare elections for q12018 already | 22:58 |
| eLtMosen | kind of self sustaining operation only | 22:58 |
| juiceme | the basic problem in altering it is that council term is defined in the bylaws, altough indirectly. | 22:59 |
| eLtMosen | So we are some weeks to late with that conclusion and need to take it to net GA | 23:00 |
| sicelo | would probably need referendum : | 23:00 |
| eLtMosen | next | 23:00 |
| juiceme | in §10 Passive Members' Meeting (2) it says "The Passive Members' Meeting is called twice per year by the council, giving due notice at least four weeks in advance, by writing or electronic announcement on maemo.org and by email, stating the meeting's agenda. The passive members' meeting is presided by the Council or a deputy. Requests and motions regarding the meeting have to be filed at the | 23:00 |
| juiceme | Council at least four weeks prior to the meeting." and in (4) "Passive Members' Meeting duty is the election of the Council. Furthermore, the passive members' meeting has the right to change § 4.1 (Council Elections) of the Association Rules (Referendum), as long as the Council ordered the meeting to. Further rights and obligations are governed by the Association Rules." | 23:00 |
| juiceme | so when combined, it can be understood that council needs to be changed twice per year | 23:01 |
| eLtMosen | yes, i also interpret like that | 23:02 |
| juiceme | but actually now that I think of it, the Passive Members Meeting has always been arranged as the Council Election, but it need not be *only* that. | 23:02 |
| juiceme | and it so, then it need not elect the council at that time? | 23:03 |
| eLtMosen | So any official 4 weeks prior announced meeting would fullfill the rule? | 23:03 |
| juiceme | I think so, now I'll have to re-review the bylaws to see if that is possible. | 23:04 |
| juiceme | Could you check the german version, since that ti the definitive one? | 23:04 |
| eLtMosen | yes, wait 5 min | 23:04 |
| juiceme | the german version is what's presented to Court in germany | 23:04 |
| juiceme | heh need not be 5min, take your time :) | 23:05 |
| sicelo | in the meantime, i also noticed that GA should be in 1st quarter of the year. we need to keep that in mind for the next one | 23:06 |
| sicelo | Associal Rules 3.3 (1) | 23:07 |
| juiceme | true. it was delayed to september on last year too... | 23:07 |
| sicelo | *Association | 23:07 |
| eLtMosen | oh, we need to hold two passive member assemblies per year with at least 10 participants, did you know? | 23:11 |
| eLtMosen | Also § 3.2 say definately 6 month council term | 23:11 |
| sicelo | i read those parts over the weekend. to me, they sounded like *this* meeting? :-/ | 23:11 |
| eLtMosen | no, those two passive assemblies need 4 weeks prior notice each | 23:12 |
| juiceme | ah yes, that is true. I knew I had seen it but somehow mised it just now. | 23:12 |
| eLtMosen | it is the meeting to elect the council | 23:13 |
| juiceme | the passibe members meeting can be a real meeting like the GA meeting we had on sunday, but it can also be just the Council Elections with the talks accompanying it. | 23:13 |
| juiceme | s/passibe/passive/ | 23:14 |
| eLtMosen | yeah, technically, correct. important is the 4 weeks notice | 23:14 |
| juiceme | why it is called "passive members" is that it is open to basically anyone who is so much interested about Maemo that (s)he gets a maemo.org account | 23:15 |
| eLtMosen | yes, passive membr is ever user of tmo afaiu | 23:15 |
| juiceme | the "active members" are ones who have actively joined the association (MCeV) | 23:15 |
| juiceme | eLtMosen, close but not exact, being TMO user is not enough, need to have maemo.org account (garage account) | 23:16 |
| eLtMosen | so it was done right in the past. to play save it would be better to have an election meeting where the results are announced. | 23:16 |
| juiceme | yes | 23:16 |
| juiceme | but it is possible to do the discussion/announcement also via TMO and mailing list | 23:17 |
| eLtMosen | two rules, one says council is 6 month term | 23:17 |
| eLtMosen | the other says two passive member meetings per year | 23:18 |
| eLtMosen | it was combined for convenience reasons and at some point the meeting became the pure election? | 23:18 |
| juiceme | yes | 23:18 |
| juiceme | I assume so, and that has happened that way for a long time | 23:19 |
| eLtMosen | so, no real problem, but to play safe, have a meeting for everyone to "celebrate" the election outcome and all is perfectly fullfilled | 23:19 |
| juiceme | but what it comes to, there is a need for referendum if we want to extend council time | 23:20 |
| eLtMosen | yes | 23:20 |
| sicelo | mmm, i am not exactly sure. 3.2 (2) says meeting "at least once a month" .. that's what led me to think it referrred to *this* meeting | 23:20 |
| eLtMosen | and two paragraphs wouldhave to be changed | 23:21 |
| juiceme | but it might also be considered that there is currently no real pressure for people to get into council, quite the opposite... | 23:21 |
| eLtMosen | sicelo, this meeting we have must take place at least once a month with one week prior notice | 23:22 |
| juiceme | it has been a tradition to have council formal meeting (like this one) once a week. | 23:22 |
| juiceme | but we *should* really keep minutes from the meetings, that is something that has laxed a bit | 23:23 |
| eLtMosen | i will rework | 23:23 |
| eLtMosen | at least from our term | 23:23 |
| sicelo | juiceme: agreed re: minutes | 23:23 |
| juiceme | which just reminded me, I forgit to change back the topic... | 23:23 |
| eLtMosen | hihi, i saw | 23:23 |
| eLtMosen | so, taking notes, i will rework the minutes from the log | 23:24 |
| eLtMosen | juiceme, can you edit maemo e.v. wiki to have gido in a seperate column as founder and honorary member. | 23:25 |
| *** juiceme changes topic to "The next Council meeting on next Tuesday, 19:00 UTC/CET" | 23:26 | |
| eLtMosen | I tried but with my account nothing is editable in council wiki | 23:26 |
| juiceme | o not actually... is UTC and CET the same time? | 23:27 |
| juiceme | eLtMosen, yes, will do | 23:27 |
| sicelo | eLtMosen: i was able to edit (adding links to minutes and logs for the GA) | 23:27 |
| eLtMosen | cet is 21:27 cet is 20:27 | 23:27 |
| eLtMosen | ups utc is 21:27 | 23:28 |
| sicelo | juiceme: i don't know what's CET, but UTC is safest .. everyone can figure out theirr time from it. | 23:28 |
| eLtMosen | lol, still the other way around utc now is 20:27 | 23:28 |
| eLtMosen | sicelo, +1 | 23:29 |
| eLtMosen | CET = central european time | 23:29 |
| eLtMosen | UTC = controlled universal time | 23:30 |
| eLtMosen | should be cut though. lol | 23:30 |
| *** juiceme changes topic to "The next Council meeting on next Tuesday, 19:00 UTC" | 23:30 | |
| juiceme | ok that good? | 23:30 |
| eLtMosen | purfect | 23:30 |
| juiceme | also updated wiki now. | 23:31 |
| eLtMosen | ok, should we be so brave and set a definate start for coding competition. :D :D :D | 23:31 |
| juiceme | let's say how it was last year? | 23:32 |
| juiceme | see | 23:32 |
| eLtMosen | wait, help me, so start in q3 2018? | 23:32 |
| juiceme | last year the competitio was announced on october 28 | 23:33 |
| juiceme | which means, 3 weeks from now :) | 23:34 |
| sicelo | on honorary members - i wondered on Sunday if we do not already have living 'passive' members who could be considered | 23:34 |
| eLtMosen | hmm, i do not see anyone with same aspiration as win7mac, but am eager to hear your suggestion | 23:35 |
| juiceme | sicelo, yes indeed we might. up to now we have not decided yet who and how could be nominated, the position was left in the charter because many associations do so. | 23:35 |
| sicelo | i thought of our most active devs - FMG, Pali. but we could brainstorm, etc. :) | 23:36 |
| juiceme | the requirements would be someone who has furtered the associations targets a *lot* | 23:36 |
| eLtMosen | Geez i am to new here and would forget many candidates | 23:36 |
| juiceme | :) | 23:36 |
| juiceme | here's the announcement of the latest coding competition; http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2016-October/006233.html | 23:37 |
| sicelo | i personally think these have, but it's something that could be discussed later when we've had more time to consider different candidates | 23:38 |
| eLtMosen | mostly,it is a reason for others to ask themselfes " why not me". maybe we shpuld not open that can of worms and reserve honorary members for the ones who left us without their consent | 23:38 |
| juiceme | that's a valid point too. | 23:38 |
| sicelo | yes | 23:40 |
| eLtMosen | i was mostly rooting for honorary member for gido because i think there is still a possibillity legally it is the only way to keep a dead man in a verein in any way | 23:40 |
| juiceme | i'd assume so, I don't know the verein legals but similar thing is in finnish yhdistyslaki which is very much the same thing | 23:42 |
| eLtMosen | So i saw it as the only save measure to keep him "among us". | 23:42 |
| eLtMosen | regardless what hapens to his active membership | 23:43 |
| sicelo | i understand. it sure is simpler that way :) | 23:44 |
| sicelo | coding competition - i am in agreement that holding ne is a good idea. but instead of 1 year interval, maybe 1.5? i am thinking in terms of availability of prizes. if it's too often, will we be able to sustain it? if our resources allow us to hold it yearly, i'm in full agreement | 23:44 |
| eLtMosen | aaand i do not know if it is a good idea to have jolla in the boat again. We should set a sign of selfesteem and not crawl for prices. imho | 23:46 |
| juiceme | it is true; since we are dependent on donations, how often can we ask from people | 23:46 |
| eLtMosen | Maybe this time we should try a micro paymnet attempt | 23:46 |
| juiceme | how is that? | 23:47 |
| eLtMosen | not sskig for full phone dontations but smaller amount people are more likely to give? | 23:48 |
| sicelo | eLtMosen: jolla community is a big part of us :) | 23:48 |
| juiceme | well many people did donate amounts fron 5...20 euros | 23:48 |
| juiceme | and few even more | 23:49 |
| eLtMosen | Maybe people would donate more if they knew upfront what they are supporting exactly? Just trying to narrow down some ideas. sorry | 23:49 |
| sicelo | i think one other thing is that our community is shrinking, unfortunately, and that of course impacts how much can be donated | 23:51 |
| juiceme | that too... I estimate there are less than 100 people who actively participate in talks on TMO | 23:52 |
| juiceme | and the voting population is around 70 or so | 23:53 |
| eLtMosen | Yes but exponentially more lurking | 23:53 |
| juiceme | and donations... well there are couple of tens of those per year | 23:53 |
| sicelo | so yes, maybe we need to experiment with the frequency of the competition to find that sweet spot. | 23:55 |
| sicelo | the competitions definitely keep people interested, as can be seen from the amazing appications that came out of the last one. i guess 2 years would be too long, hence 1.5 maybe :) | 23:56 |
| juiceme | okay, then announcement would be around march earliest, maybe? | 23:56 |
| eLtMosen | maybe we should extend the feature bounty aspect of the competition and ask the users what they are willing to donate FOR and thus find payed tasks for devs that are after the money | 23:57 |
| eLtMosen | or fame :D | 23:58 |
| juiceme | hat is true too. There are plenty of stuff people would like to have but don't know how to do | 23:58 |
| eLtMosen | like a voting phase with attached donation | 23:58 |
| juiceme | well, i don't think it needs to be definitely voting. | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!