IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Tuesday, 2017-01-31

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eekkelundHello!:)21:33
reinobhey21:40
eekkelundyea so topics of today are category order, voting, more prizes aand what else :)21:57
reinobshould we wait until @juiceme comes (should be around 21:30 our time)22:00
eekkelundYea sure :)22:16
juicemehiya!22:22
juicemehow's everybody?22:22
juicemereinob, hi22:23
juicemeeekkelund, hi22:23
reinobhi there!22:24
juicemewe sure got a lot of entries the last minute22:25
juicemeand still might get some :)22:25
reinobyup, I'm positively surprised! :)22:25
eekkelundHi juice!22:27
eekkelundYea I am very happy that we got quite nice amount of entries :)22:28
juicemethere are some categorically difficult cases, for example some of the entries in "beginner" category; how do we rate that they really are beginners?22:28
eekkelundentries to the beginners competition should be the authors first released coding project(s) for the Maemo or Mer-based platforms, and must have been first released between the competition start and end dates.22:29
eekkelundfrom wiki page22:29
eekkelundAnd voting btw: Only users of maemo.org who are registered at the start of the competition and have at least 10 karma at the time of voting are entitled to vote.22:30
reinobbut e.g. ocsp (the music player) was already "released" in a talk.maemo.org thread22:30
eekkelundI was just wondering the same, I wouldn't count it. If there are some updates for that then it is Fixing category22:31
reinobs/ocsp/oscp/22:32
reinobyup22:32
eekkelundIt haven't been changed22:32
juicemeyes, agreed22:32
reinobare all current entries in the wiki?22:32
eekkelundLast time 01.07.201622:32
juicemeso we need to go thru each entry and correct the categories as we see best.22:32
eekkelundThanks juice for keeping wiki up to date :)22:33
reinobI suggest we wait until the deadline is over, then update the wiki (thanks too :), and then each one of us sends an e-mail to the council with proposed category-corrections22:33
juiceme have tried to update them daily to the wiki :)22:33
reinob(if any)22:33
juicemeyes, sounds good22:33
eekkelundSounds good :)22:34
reinobor we discuss it now, but the deadline is not over yet, and this way pichlo has also a chance to comment22:34
juicemethere's still just few hours to deadline, right?22:34
eekkelund23.59 UTC22:34
reinobI'll be asleep at that time :)22:35
eekkelundSo the oscp is not acceptable entry?22:36
juicememo too, thats still 3,5 hours away22:36
eekkelundI will release bugfix for tIDE before that :D22:37
juicemenot acceptable as beginner I think22:37
reinoboscp is OK but probably not as beginner but as update/fix22:37
juicemeyes22:37
eekkelundBut it haven't even been updated22:37
juicemehm, was that so?22:37
juicemewhen was it released first tme?22:37
eekkelundAh sorry22:38
reinobI didn't check. If the posted version is one that existed before the beginning of the competition then it would also not be a fix/update but merely a "re-releasing"22:38
eekkelundi was mistaken22:38
eekkelundI was trying to check source from here https://sourceforge.net/projects/oscp/files/binaries/22:39
reinoblatest version is from 29 January 2017 so OK22:39
eekkelundYes yu are right, sorry22:40
eekkelundIt is ok :)22:40
reinobfor the record: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1522575&postcount=25422:41
juicemeoh22:44
eekkelundI am not sure if two last beginner entries are really beginner22:44
juicemethen it qualifies as "fix/update"22:44
juicemeeekkelund, I thouht the same22:44
eekkelundFeathers McGraw has released at least this app before22:45
eekkelundhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9688322:45
eekkelundAnd not sure about this, would it be new app or fixing/updating https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9432622:46
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reinobso PingYou (from Feathers McGraw) is "something new" but not "from a beginner"22:48
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reinobwhat about the other thread? (justmemory with maemoneypot)22:49
juicemeyes, we probably don't have that many beginners among us :)22:49
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reinobwill be back in a while22:53
juicemehas justmemory released before?22:53
juicemeand then again,  [john_god / Mak] seems it *could* be beginner category22:55
eekkelundI would say that PingYou is something new :)22:55
eekkelundand did I understand that maemoneypot is rewrite of previous code?22:56
juicemeeekkelund, again it depends if Feathers McGraw gas released before22:57
juicemeand maemoneypot might be rewrite, but was the original one ever released or just written for own use?22:58
eekkelundjuiceme, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9688322:58
juicemeI've got a feeling sorting these all out are not so easy as I first thought :)22:59
eekkelundHaha I have same feeling :D22:59
juicemeah, previous stuff from Feathers22:59
eekkelundmaemoneypot (or the base of that?) has own thread started earlier22:59
eekkelundso I am not sure ?:D23:00
juicemeoh, we got a new entry there! :)23:00
eekkelundYea Mak could be beginner, I can see from his github that he has tried to write harmattan app 2013?:D23:00
eekkelundYAY23:00
eekkelundTwo more apps :D23:01
juicememmh.. maybe we should send mailto all contestants and ask for clarifiaction; why they think they fit t a category?23:01
eekkelundSounds great idea23:02
juicemeten we can shoot down their excuses :)23:02
eekkelundhaha :D23:02
juicemeok, updated @rasmarc's 2 applications to wiki23:06
eekkelundOh thanks :)23:07
juicemewe got a whoppin' 29 entries now!23:07
eekkelundawesome!:)23:10
eekkelundjuice would it be too much asked if you would write some kind of closing post? Finnish line crossed etc. now two weeks testing/review time and then voting time. Also we have to remind that for voting maemo.org account is needed with 10 karma, right?23:12
juicemenow we get to the prizes... so currently we definitely have not got enough stuff to go around. And I'd like to see everyone get *something*23:12
eekkelundIf you are busy I can try to find time tomorrow/day after tomorrow to write it :)23:12
juicemeeekkelund, yes, I can do that23:12
juicemethat suits me too :)23:12
eekkelundOoh awesome, thanks so much :)23:12
juicemehaha I was faster :)23:12
juicemebut yes, we can collaborate too if you'd like to, I can write up something and then send for review before publishing..23:13
eekkelundhahahaa:D23:13
eekkelundOh okay that sounds really good :=23:14
eekkelund:)23:14
eekkelundAnd yea, it would be nice that everybody would get something23:14
juicemeabout the prices; what do you think of the set of TOH's and other accessories, should they be bundled together with the 2 Jolla sbj1's we have or set each as a separate prize item?23:15
juicemeand even that way, there's not enough stuff to go around to everybody.23:16
juicemeThere was this idea of purchasing a large boxfull of rasPI's or equal stuff23:16
eekkelundHmm I didn't get what you mean :D RasPi's also sounds good23:17
eekkelundmaemo.org stickers would be cool, but I don't know if we have time to get those?:)23:18
reinobsorry for the break.. longer than I wanted23:18
reinobhave read the log23:18
juicemereinob, :)23:19
reinobif, after we discuss within the council, we find some projects which do not fit in the given category or where is not clear, then we send the e-mail asking for clarification (unless it's really clear, in which case we send the e-mail as a non-appealable final decision :)23:20
juicemeeekkelund, what I mean by the acessories; there are 2 Jolla sbj1 devices, right? and then there are 7 TOH's. What I meant is that is each TOH one prize, or will we bundle them like 1 jolla + 3 TOH's andso on23:21
reinobgood point. A TOH for somebody without a Jolla (or already with a TOH) is pretty useless :)23:22
juicemereinob, I soggested we send email to all proponents after the deadline has cleared, and ask them to explain why they think their application fits a certain category23:22
reinobso I understood it. The thing is, maybe people find that offensive. So an option is to only send the e-mails where we think/suspect that the category is not right23:23
juicemeand also remind that "beginner" category means never released publicly before23:23
juicemereinob, we send *polite* letters, not offensive :)23:24
reinobthen it's OK :)23:25
juicemeso, there's 2 things to sort still I think;23:26
juicemeone is the need for more prizes23:26
juicemeand the other is the order between categories23:27
juicemeor, as we interleave them as I think was the decision, which is the order of interleave23:27
juicemewhich is quite important IMHO as the first one ges to select first from the prize pile23:28
reinobI don't know what I said last week, but maybe as a test for internal consistency, I'll say now: 1. Beginner, 2. New, 3. Update/fix23:29
* reinob checks log23:29
eekkelundI would say same as reinob :)23:29
reinoboh, in the e-mail I wrote new > update > beginner23:31
reinobwhich is more "objective" in a sense, but beginner > new > update gives more weight to beginners, which sorta deserve it for, well, having begun :)23:31
juicemewell, it depens on whether we want to value beginner above others23:32
reinobso either more "objective" or more "nice" :)23:32
reinobeekkelund seems to be on the nice side :)23:32
juicemeand why not, sounds pretty fair to me23:32
reinob(and me today :)23:32
reinobjuiceme seems to be also on the nice side :)23:32
juicemeso, but then we have to be really strict on the criteria of "beginner"23:32
reinobexactly23:33
reinobin our non-offensive letter we may also explain how the ranking is going to work23:33
eekkelundOkay I am very fine with new first, tIDE is in new category ;))23:33
reinobso people know why category is of such critical relevance23:33
reinobthat's NOT nice :))))))23:33
juicemeas it means, the winner of the beginner category will be "de facto winner" of the Competition23:33
eekkelundbut really beginner> new > update23:33
juicemeyes I agree, new should be valued higher than update23:34
reinobOK so who votes for beginner > new > update?23:35
eekkelundI don't like that we would have de facto winner.. All three winners are de facto winners IMO23:35
* reinob says yup23:35
juicemewell yes... BUT23:35
juicemethe first one takes the most valuable prize, right?23:35
reinob(somebody has to be the first to pick a prize from the pool, you he's the de facto winner)23:35
juicemesince there probably will be just one N95023:35
reinobwhat juiceme said23:35
eekkelundAhhhhhrgg :D true true23:36
juicemehowever we set it up, somebody,s going to be upset :)23:37
eekkelundI am already :D23:37
juicemehaha23:37
reinob:)23:37
juicemebut hey, should we still ask for device donations?23:38
juicemethere are still some that are in the negotiations, not on the wiki list yes23:38
juicemes/yes/yet23:38
eekkelundoh nice :) If there are enough funds, why not? :)23:39
juicemeand what about some inexpensive devices = raspi, raspi-zero23:39
reinobwhy not, the more the merrier.23:39
reinobThe worst that can happen is that we end up with too many devices, but that's never a problem23:39
juicemewell the donations cover what we have secured, so we have not had to resort to existing funds, and originally it was decided that we *can* also take from existin funds23:40
juicemeso we have budet to spend.23:41
juicemeand we can *still* ask for more donations too23:41
eekkelundOkay +1 for more devices :)23:41
reinobI have no preference, really23:41
reinobbut why not ask. +123:42
juicemewe could indeed do so, show that we have almost 30 worthy contestants, so now is the high time to loosen purse strings :)23:42
reinobyeah :)23:42
juicemeso, I suggest we also co-write that together before posting23:42
chem|stjuiceme: n0x asked me if 85eur shipping is ok23:43
chem|stI told him to have another attempt with fedex and local post offices and then come back to me23:44
juicemechem|st, sounds a lot really. Where's he on?23:44
chem|stphilippines23:44
juicemeI know the couriers take that kind of money23:45
chem|stmost of all, they asked him for a receipt23:45
reinobis that the N950?23:45
juicemeI went round once asking for how much is to send a JOlla sbj1 to HongKong, and it's about 100 euros. Asked from 7 different couriers.. :(23:45
juicemereinob, nope, a N9/64G23:46
chem|streinob: yes23:46
chem|stjuiceme: hae I thought it is a n95023:46
reinobalternative facts?23:46
reinob:)23:46
eekkelundAh post asked for receipt?23:46
juicemeI'm quite sure it's N923:46
reinobOK23:46
chem|styou can get the last N9/16gb on banggood or dx23:46
juicemewhat's wrong with a receipt?23:47
chem|stnew23:47
chem|stjuiceme: for an n950 it is wrong23:47
juicemeah now I understood, they wanted to see *his* eceipt of purchase???23:48
juicemethat's way silly, wht do tehy care23:48
chem|stit is to not sell tourist goods on ebay23:50
chem|stN9s are 113eur on dx.com23:51
chem|stnew23:51
eekkelundThose are really valid?23:52
chem|stand a guy in .se bought one with it being set to chinese and no idea how to change the language23:53
chem|steekkelund: dx.com is usually legit23:53
chem|sttakes 3 weeks till it is shipped though23:53
chem|stwonder how the icons of a gear and a globe do not lead him to pick a language23:54
eekkelundOh cool :)23:54
juicemethis shipping thing is really shitty part, might eat into our funds a lot if not thought out carefully23:54
eekkelundHaha:D23:54
chem|stjuiceme: we need to consider the shipping we need to provide as well, how much is left on funding right now?23:55
chem|stthe JollaCs by Jolla are shipped by Jolla, everything else is shipped by us23:55
juicemewell, for example even as n0x donated his device, it's crazy to use 100 euros for shipping23:57
juicemehow much is shipping from Germany, to where-ever in the world?23:57

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