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| reinob | will be here around 21:00. have to take care of a number of things (children, cats) before I'm available :) | 21:19 |
|---|---|---|
| eekkelund | Hellou:) | 21:37 |
| eekkelund | Nobody here?:) | 21:48 |
| eekkelund | reinob in 12min maybe? | 21:49 |
| reinob | I'm one reboot away :) | 21:51 |
| reinob | so, I'm here. Probably with nothing to say, but hey.. | 21:55 |
| eekkelund | hey :D | 22:00 |
| reinob | hi! | 22:00 |
| reinob | I just remembered that I wanted to ask you about the status of the maemo_org twitter account. I tried to log in but it says username or password invalid | 22:01 |
| eekkelund | I wrote cc announcement draft, I have to continue it :) | 22:01 |
| eekkelund | Lets seeee | 22:01 |
| reinob | thanks :) | 22:01 |
| reinob | is the password one that starts with two uppercase letters and ends with a G? | 22:01 |
| eekkelund | Yea ir should be :o | 22:02 |
| eekkelund | it* | 22:02 |
| reinob | hmmm | 22:02 |
| eekkelund | haha | 22:04 |
| eekkelund | we changed the nick :) | 22:04 |
| eekkelund | it is maemo_council | 22:04 |
| eekkelund | while you are there write the first post ;) | 22:04 |
| eekkelund | tweet* I mean :) | 22:04 |
| reinob | it worked! I still had the maemo_org login | 22:05 |
| eekkelund | Nice :) | 22:10 |
| reinob | I'm gonna have to reboot again. I removed the display-manager (lightdm) for this laptop, and now chrome forgets that I'm logged in and other weird things happen. | 22:12 |
| reinob | will be back in 5min or so | 22:12 |
| eekkelund | :D what are you doing or trying to do?:) | 22:13 |
| reinob | everything working again | 22:16 |
| reinob | just thought that I'd set this up like my other laptop, where I boot to console and then decide if I want to startx or not. But then "weird things happen" (related to systemd/logind and who knows what else). In the other laptop I managed to set that up OK but I don't want to bother now so I reinstalled lightdm and life is OK again | 22:18 |
| reinob | I used to love linux. Now I hate it. But I hate every other OS still more :) | 22:18 |
| reinob | (DOS and OS/2 were kinda OK too) | 22:18 |
| eekkelund | Haha :) same distro but other laptop has problems ? | 22:19 |
| eekkelund | Linux is the best of the worst? | 22:21 |
| reinob | debian sid. The one working fine (without display-manager) is heavily tweaked (and everything works like I want it to work). This one is more standard, I use it only for IRC on-the-go and not much more. It's also loud as hell (eee pc who knows how old probably full of dust. got it in exchange for a beer :) | 22:21 |
| reinob | I think I should get rid of both laptops and buy a good one "to rule them all" :) | 22:22 |
| eekkelund | Ahh :) haha was it good exchange? didn't some eee pc run meego? | 22:22 |
| eekkelund | I have liked thinkpads | 22:23 |
| eekkelund | usuallly common distros works well and hard to break | 22:23 |
| reinob | my other one is a lenovo "ideapad" (no comparison to thinkpads). It's not really "portable" because some keys jump and the hinge breaks a little more every time I open or close the lid, so I use it as a desktop PC with external keyboard, mouse and screen. It's a pity but I didn't complain soon enough and didn't want to get a replacement and start over again.. | 22:25 |
| reinob | anyway, have some grumpy day today. Even the cats p*ss me off. They seem to only eat and sh*t non-stop the whole f*cking day. | 22:27 |
| eekkelund | Doesn't sound good :/ change that for beer and buy laptop?:) | 22:27 |
| eekkelund | hahaha:D | 22:27 |
| reinob | good idea ;-) | 22:27 |
| juiceme | hi! | 22:27 |
| reinob | hey | 22:28 |
| juiceme | sorry I'm late... | 22:28 |
| reinob | didnt miss much.. | 22:28 |
| eekkelund | Hello :)' | 22:28 |
| juiceme | just read the backlog, so missed nothing truly important :) | 22:30 |
| eekkelund | Yea :) | 22:31 |
| juiceme | reinob, I have lately started thinking I should change distros... my desktop machines normally are all on Ubuntu but the darn thing is moving away from my idea of linux | 22:31 |
| reinob | debian too (systemd) | 22:31 |
| juiceme | eekkelund, did you get the chance to see everything you wished while in GB? | 22:31 |
| reinob | but I'm too lazy to change (and to what?) | 22:32 |
| eekkelund | I Dont like canonical atall, so no ubuntu for me :) | 22:32 |
| juiceme | reinob true, my servers are mainly debian | 22:32 |
| reinob | I have debian sid for the laptops, jessie for the servers and for the wife | 22:32 |
| eekkelund | arch! I am going to have new desktop soon and I will try QubesOS, seems nice :) | 22:32 |
| juiceme | the only reason I have stuck to ubuntu so long was that at the time I started using it on desktop it was the only one that had decent support for 3-monitor-spread desktop | 22:33 |
| juiceme | and I never liked it small :) | 22:33 |
| eekkelund | juiceme: Yea, I did. Mostly my gf had some wishes, for me main point was to see stonehenge :) | 22:33 |
| reinob | but QubesOS is Fedora. I never liked RH/Fedora. Neither SuSE. Either debian or slackware for me | 22:33 |
| juiceme | did you get to sneak so close as to touch the stones? :p | 22:34 |
| eekkelund | I am starting to like redhat:) try arch? | 22:34 |
| eekkelund | juiceme: nooo:( there was rope-fence.. | 22:35 |
| eekkelund | I could have ran there tho.. | 22:35 |
| eekkelund | :D | 22:35 |
| juiceme | well people who use arch seem to like it a lot.. but I somehow have the feeling it breaks every other day :) | 22:35 |
| reinob | I once tried arch. If you don't update it every day you run into troubles (and I did) unless you spend 5 hours reading how to upgrade manually and sacrifice a goat facing north. No, I don't like arch either | 22:35 |
| reinob | too "rolling" | 22:35 |
| juiceme | yes... but there are advantages though. | 22:36 |
| reinob | and it's also systemd anyway. so why bother. soon they all be systemd/gnu/linux and you get to choose an icon theme | 22:36 |
| juiceme | for example I am stuck to using over an year old SFOS-SDK because the bloody bastards went and made the new versions dependant on a newer GLIBC than what's on my LTS ubuntu | 22:37 |
| eekkelund | :D:D | 22:37 |
| eekkelund | I haven't had big problems with arch on thinkpad.. | 22:37 |
| juiceme | and I don't want to stick in a replacement libset, wll be asking for trouble | 22:37 |
| reinob | I find sid a good compromise between LTS-but-outdated and arch-now-it-works-now-it-doesnt | 22:38 |
| juiceme | reinob, I thought arch is what you make it, not necessarily systemd if you don't choose to have it? | 22:38 |
| reinob | not really, but I'm not arch expert | 22:39 |
| reinob | BTW last week I met Frank Karlitschek! | 22:39 |
| juiceme | systemd sucks bigtime when it starts misbehaving; granted, it works ok most of the time | 22:39 |
| reinob | he gave a presentation on cloud computing at our "office" | 22:40 |
| juiceme | we have had more than one occasion when there is certain set of logs missing in boot phase, with apparently no reason, systemd had just eaten them for lunch or something... | 22:41 |
| reinob | binary logs suck | 22:41 |
| juiceme | ah, I've never met him, was it a good session? | 22:41 |
| reinob | yup, actually two weeks ago. we luckily finished that Nokia case I told you about so we could sneak into the presentation :) | 22:42 |
| juiceme | so what was his cloud theme, "stay away from it" ? :) | 22:42 |
| juiceme | good. did you manage to bash their application for good? :) | 22:42 |
| reinob | it was more "here comes a guy who knows his stuff to explain us patent examiners how things are done in the real world", which was kinda nice but time was limited, etc. | 22:42 |
| reinob | (yes, the poor Nokia application was refused) | 22:43 |
| juiceme | heh :) | 22:43 |
| juiceme | so hey, did he say anything at all about the owncloud forking thingy they did? | 22:44 |
| juiceme | nextcloud, yes | 22:44 |
| reinob | one of us asked and he was visibly uncomfortable, but said it was political, business vs developers, etc. But looked like he didn't want to go in detail | 22:45 |
| juiceme | I'd imagine he has had to explain it so many times it pisses him off already | 22:45 |
| reinob | from the audience only two people used nextcloud (one of them being me), and nobody used owncloud. Most didnt know what the hell the thing was about. | 22:46 |
| reinob | Oops I didnt say that | 22:46 |
| juiceme | heh | 22:46 |
| reinob | eekkelund: re cc announcement draft. is there anything you need? | 22:48 |
| eekkelund | well hmm.. I will send it to council mail to read | 22:49 |
| eekkelund | So i dont think so..? | 22:49 |
| reinob | good :) | 22:49 |
| juiceme | okay | 22:50 |
| eekkelund | We need a LOGO! do you have any mad gimp/photoshop skillz? :) | 22:50 |
| reinob | ASCII art does it? :) | 22:52 |
| reinob | (but not even that I could do well) | 22:52 |
| juiceme | me, I'm not really visually creative that way. If given a task with good specifications I can whip up something cool in GIMP but it means I have to use/reuse source materials :) | 22:52 |
| juiceme | meaning, I cannot dŕaw a stick figure of a man but I can blend in pieces taken from other artworks pretty good | 22:53 |
| eekkelund | reinob: haha :D juiceme: it is _maemo_ developer _regatta_ that is some 'specs' | 22:54 |
| reinob | :) | 22:55 |
| eekkelund | is that any help?:D | 22:56 |
| juiceme | eekkelund, not specific enough a specification for me. Remember what I said about increativity above :) | 22:57 |
| eekkelund | hmm :) | 22:58 |
| reinob | BTW I'm thinking about using my Nextcloud for the CC submissions upload/download. Could make it easier and more elegant than ftp/sftp or such | 23:00 |
| juiceme | yes, that could be good idea | 23:00 |
| reinob | Could you see if you can access the "Upload" folder using this link: https://www.bbmk.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/kO78HsGiGgaEB4F | 23:00 |
| reinob | it should be empty, and it should let you upload stuff (I set a 1GB quota) | 23:01 |
| juiceme | just a minute | 23:01 |
| reinob | if you could try uploading something with your name ("juiceme.txt") and eekkelund can see if he can download it and upload something else | 23:01 |
| juiceme | I can access it, let's see if I can upload | 23:02 |
| eekkelund | Let me know then when to hit f5 | 23:03 |
| juiceme | okay, try it now :) | 23:05 |
| reinob | theres a photo of a cat! | 23:05 |
| * juiceme found a cat | 23:05 | |
| juiceme | indeed. that's our Selma | 23:05 |
| reinob | nice. | 23:05 |
| eekkelund | I have cat now :) | 23:06 |
| reinob | great! | 23:06 |
| juiceme | You'd believe she found the pile of freshly washed clean sheets nice ... | 23:06 |
| reinob | so in principle with that link anyone could upload their stuff, I check it, move it to another folder, and this other folder is made available for download. Sounds OK? | 23:06 |
| juiceme | yes, however as it is now, it is downloadable by everyone immediately? | 23:07 |
| reinob | and I guess that setting a password (there's an option for that) doesn't make much sense, unless IoT bots start uploading photos :) | 23:07 |
| reinob | juiceme: yes, but we can tell people: upload here, download from here. For their own good, so to speak. | 23:08 |
| reinob | Technically, they could also download from the upload folder, but at their own risk | 23:08 |
| juiceme | or is it possible to configure it so that it is upload-only? | 23:09 |
| reinob | have to check, but I don't think so. | 23:09 |
| juiceme | at least ftp can be set up so | 23:09 |
| juiceme | I'd be surprised if it isn't possible | 23:09 |
| reinob | yes, there's the option of "hide file listing", so you only see an empty folder and can upload | 23:11 |
| reinob | https://help.nextcloud.com/t/upload-only-files-drop/623/2 | 23:11 |
| eekkelund | Shouldnt there be password? | 23:11 |
| eekkelund | to upload? | 23:12 |
| reinob | maybe not for now. The link should be unique enough.. | 23:12 |
| eekkelund | well yeaa:) | 23:12 |
| reinob | or we use some trivial password like the CC hashtag.. | 23:12 |
| reinob | #mcc-something (xvi?) | 23:12 |
| eekkelund | #mccXVI | 23:13 |
| eekkelund | I had the wiki open | 23:13 |
| juiceme | it makes sense to have something non-rtivial | 23:13 |
| reinob | "needs to be at least 8 characters long" | 23:13 |
| reinob | #mccXVI! | 23:13 |
| juiceme | just to stop those IoT bots :) | 23:13 |
| reinob | that's 8 | 23:13 |
| reinob | "at least one numeric character" (!) | 23:14 |
| eekkelund | .. | 23:14 |
| reinob | maemo_cc_2016 | 23:14 |
| juiceme | whoo they make it hard to use normal passwords... | 23:14 |
| reinob | or "maemo_regatta_16" | 23:14 |
| eekkelund | reinob, up to you :D | 23:15 |
| reinob | OK,it's the one with regatta in it | 23:15 |
| juiceme | :) | 23:16 |
| eekkelund | it should be in wiki i think?:) | 23:16 |
| juiceme | yes, it is a password so why hide it is some difficult place :) | 23:18 |
| reinob | yes, maybe make it hard for non-human to parse (like maemo underscore regatta underscore sixteen) | 23:18 |
| juiceme | on the other hand, maybe just give vague clues on how to find it... | 23:18 |
| juiceme | make it an adventure to be able to upload an entry :) : | 23:19 |
| reinob | Link for public download ("checked") folder: https://www.bbmk.org/nextcloud/index.php/s/gtHDL3VLiOqsaJy | 23:20 |
| reinob | a competition within a competition! | 23:20 |
| eekkelund | :D | 23:21 |
| juiceme | that would weed off the people who are not seriously competitive :) | 23:22 |
| reinob | :) | 23:23 |
| eekkelund | I think I have somekind of cc announcement txt now.. | 23:24 |
| reinob | good. Happy that it worked to easy. (I have not seriously considered the security or lack thereof in nextcloud. In the worst case some PHP fvck-up gives anyone access to my server (as www-data, but still), but I do keep an eye or two regularly. | 23:24 |
| reinob | "worked so easy" I meant | 23:24 |
| juiceme | hmmm, yes there is always the risk. | 23:25 |
| juiceme | installing just about anything that opens services outwards can be potentially harmful. | 23:26 |
| eekkelund | reinob, is there SELinux on enforcing mode? | 23:27 |
| reinob | yes of course. But at least the server itself should be quite OK (it's debian stable after all :). Doubt is whether $random PHP application (Nextcloud) is up to the task | 23:27 |
| reinob | No SELinux here | 23:27 |
| juiceme | I don't know about how thoroughly opencloud is security-reviewed, but I hope at least the default settings are good | 23:27 |
| juiceme | s/opencloud/owncloud/ | 23:28 |
| reinob | should be. PHP and security still dont quite go together in my book, but I heard things have improved a lot since the early 2000s :) | 23:28 |
| reinob | (I'm a veeeery slow adapter, I still find C++ too fancy :) | 23:29 |
| juiceme | well I have just started recently looking into new stuff that's in c++ version 11 | 23:29 |
| juiceme | damn I hate the way they write lambdas in it! | 23:30 |
| juiceme | it is the ugliest way you can imagine! | 23:30 |
| juiceme | oh why did they had to insert that {[foo,bar]->baz(boo)} -like stuff in it?? | 23:31 |
| reinob | The only languages where lambdas are nice and natural are lisp, forth and RPL | 23:31 |
| juiceme | I mean seriously, having square brackets in frot of the damn function call??!! | 23:32 |
| juiceme | reinob, and javascript, don't forget that :) | 23:32 |
| reinob | in the end it will look as ugly and unnatural as that contraption called objective-c. Luckily no one uses that | 23:32 |
| reinob | javascript, is it all used? :) | 23:33 |
| reinob | (at all, I meant) | 23:33 |
| juiceme | wot? it's used all da time | 23:33 |
| juiceme | in both server and clientside | 23:33 |
| reinob | just joking. Objective-C too (for iOS stuff). Ugly languages, although JS has matured a lot | 23:34 |
| juiceme | okay, it's hakish, but at least it *looks* nicer than c++ | 23:34 |
| reinob | have to quit soon. wife's coming back and I still need to clean the 4 (FOUR) cat toilets before she comes :) | 23:34 |
| juiceme | never used Objective-C, so cannot say anything about that | 23:34 |
| juiceme | okay | 23:34 |
| juiceme | one other councily-thing still | 23:35 |
| reinob | yup | 23:35 |
| juiceme | today there's discussion of tor and IP banning on TMO | 23:35 |
| juiceme | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=97983 | 23:35 |
| reinob | havent seen it (yet) | 23:35 |
| reinob | Ive started to use tor more and more. Just for the sake of it | 23:36 |
| juiceme | as we had that lingering item aboutpossibility of allowing hidden access | 23:36 |
| juiceme | yes, I used to run a tor exit node some time back. There were problems though, as I had it in my home-IP address; bot blocked from quite a few services | 23:37 |
| juiceme | got blocked I mean | 23:37 |
| eekkelund | Haven't read the thread yet | 23:39 |
| reinob | will check the thread later tonight or tomorrow. we can follow up there and discuss again next tuesday? | 23:39 |
| juiceme | so, anyway, on the IP blocking front; there is somewhat high spam load we have o TMO, with now and then escalating to a real spamfest and I think there should be more intuitive ways to stop it than just blocking ranges of IP addresses | 23:40 |
| juiceme | yes, let's do that. | 23:40 |
| reinob | tor and/or IP ranges are never going to be effective. It should be based on content (like spam). Trainable bayesian filter and all. Don't know how easy or hard it is to integrate some filtering into the mess we have (midgard?) | 23:41 |
| eekkelund | Sounds ok :) | 23:41 |
| reinob | but worth a discussion | 23:41 |
| eekkelund | I have one quick think about cc.. | 23:42 |
| reinob | if its quick | 23:42 |
| eekkelund | App Developer Resources | 23:42 |
| eekkelund | wiki | 23:42 |
| eekkelund | :) | 23:42 |
| reinob | I think I said I'd do that, and I didn't! | 23:42 |
| reinob | :( | 23:42 |
| juiceme | okay. | 23:43 |
| juiceme | gnite, then? | 23:43 |
| reinob | I put it on my list and try to do that before weekend. On Saturday I'm off to a farm for a week :) | 23:43 |
| reinob | OK! | 23:43 |
| reinob | good night! | 23:43 |
| eekkelund | Some links are enough, if you manage to add there something I could try to add also some more:) | 23:43 |
| eekkelund | good night :) | 23:43 |
| eekkelund | oh and this one also | 23:46 |
| eekkelund | https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Coding_Competition_2016#Prizes | 23:46 |
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