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| eekkelund | Hello!:) | 21:37 |
|---|---|---|
| reinob | Hi! | 21:37 |
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| reinob | Hi pichlo! | 21:39 |
| pichlo | Hi rainib! | 21:41 |
| pichlo | nob | 21:43 |
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| reinob | I was away last week. Checked the log. Any news? | 21:44 |
| pichlo | No, sorry. I volunteered for something and failed horribly. Did not have a minute to sit down :( | 21:46 |
| pichlo | Crazy week. Could not even arrange my kids' school break. | 21:47 |
| reinob | we have two weeks off. last week we were in spain. this week we enjoy the bad weather by doing nothing :) | 21:48 |
| reinob | (which means there's a lot to do, cleaning up and sorting things around) | 21:48 |
| pichlo | This week is looking better for me. Work partly done and Monday is a publuc holiday ;) | 21:51 |
| reinob | re. https and tor. was any decision reached? | 21:55 |
| reinob | I fully support offering https (but allowing http is OK) and accessing via tor. | 21:55 |
| pichlo | The decision was unanimous on TOR. Rveryone supported it. No one seemed too bothered about HTTPS. | 21:58 |
| pichlo | It was my job to check feasibility with techstaff but... see above. | 21:59 |
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| juiceme | hi! | 22:01 |
| juiceme | eekkelund, o/ | 22:02 |
| juiceme | pichlo, o/ | 22:02 |
| juiceme | reinob, o/ | 22:02 |
| juiceme | well, win7mac has been busy and prepared the draft for the GA meeting invitation | 22:03 |
| pichlo | How do you know who is online??? | 22:03 |
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| Win7Mac | hi | 22:04 |
| juiceme | well I can see from the status :) | 22:04 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac, o/ | 22:04 |
| pichlo | I can't. Wrong client? | 22:04 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac, thanks for the GA draft | 22:04 |
| Win7Mac | sure | 22:04 |
| eekkelund | Hi juiceme ! | 22:04 |
| juiceme | pichlo, am using just basic irssi | 22:05 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st wanted to edit something on the GA invitation | 22:05 |
| reinob | if you type /who you see who is online in the current group | 22:05 |
| juiceme | yes | 22:05 |
| reinob | Win7Mac: thanks also for the draft! | 22:05 |
| juiceme | and also, when people enter/exit channels there is a notification on the screen... | 22:06 |
| pichlo | I see the notifications but not the status | 22:08 |
| pichlo | '/who' does nothing at all | 22:09 |
| reinob | pichlo: which client are you using? | 22:09 |
| juiceme | normally the output of /who goes to window 1 in irssi | 22:09 |
| pichlo | IRC for Sailfish. Thete is only one. I checked. | 22:10 |
| juiceme | irssi is handy because you can keep multiple channels open, and jump between them with ctrl-n, ctrl-p | 22:10 |
| juiceme | ah | 22:10 |
| juiceme | mobile clients may be different | 22:10 |
| pichlo | BTW is it only me or were there no minutes last week? | 22:11 |
| juiceme | I have tried it long tme ago | 22:11 |
| reinob | sailfish IRC had a window (sliding from the right?) showing the current members | 22:11 |
| juiceme | true | 22:11 |
| juiceme | regarding minutes | 22:11 |
| juiceme | was too busy to help eekkelund with em | 22:11 |
| pichlo | It shows members but not who is online. | 22:11 |
| juiceme | but have now given advice | 22:11 |
| pichlo | Unless everyone is online all the time. | 22:12 |
| juiceme | I think all the users it shows are online | 22:12 |
| Win7Mac | eekkelund, any problems with the minutes? | 22:12 |
| reinob | pichlo: if a member is shown it means he's joined the channel. there's no concept of online/offline in IRC | 22:12 |
| juiceme | reinob, yes, better explained | 22:12 |
| pichlo | That sucks | 22:12 |
| juiceme | if someone is on channel, it is not posible to see if he's idling or actively at te kbd | 22:13 |
| reinob | many people keep a client connected (e.g. running on a server which is always online), so they never leave tge channel but are not necessarily online in the sense that they are actively looking at the screen | 22:13 |
| reinob | juiceme: exactly | 22:13 |
| pichlo | My impression of IRC has sunk even lower | 22:13 |
| juiceme | how so? | 22:13 |
| juiceme | it is actually wonderful that way | 22:13 |
| reinob | it's like whatsup on jolla. people think you're always online | 22:13 |
| reinob | IRC is like e-mail. sucks on multiple levels but there's nothing better! | 22:14 |
| juiceme | there are niceties,like you can set it up so it pings you immediately via email if someone mentins your name | 22:14 |
| pichlo | Sucks | 22:14 |
| eekkelund | Win7Mac: I got help from juiceme so no problems ATM, just late | 22:14 |
| juiceme | pichlo :) | 22:14 |
| juiceme | sucks but there is nothing that works better :) | 22:15 |
| pichlo | The point of an INSTANT message system is that it is, well, instant. | 22:15 |
| pichlo | That does not work if I don't even know who is online. | 22:15 |
| juiceme | mmh, well yes. I think of it a *nice* messager, I'd hate to be botherable all the time | 22:16 |
| juiceme | one of the reasons I'll never yield to wazzups & such | 22:16 |
| juiceme | the thing is, how can you ever get anything done if you'd need to respond to someone's message every 3 minutes | 22:17 |
| pichlo | I see IM as a proxy for a phone call. With immediate interaction. If I do not care about delays then I use a more suitabke medium, like SMS, email or a web forum. | 22:18 |
| juiceme | the blessing of SMS is that it does not support group chat | 22:18 |
| pichlo | ITC is neither here nor thete. | 22:18 |
| pichlo | IRC | 22:18 |
| reinob | well I wouldn't consider IRC to be IM. think of "relay chat" as "delayed chat" :) | 22:18 |
| juiceme | people don't use IM like that; instead they use it like gropu chat. and when there are 30+ memgers in a group someone is always sending, 24/7 and it will absolutely make you crazy | 22:19 |
| pichlo | Rendered useless by the fact that I do not see what others have written 5minutes before I logged in ;) | 22:20 |
| reinob | I have that with threema. Work colleagues use it, but in the end I have to turn the notifications off to actually get some work done | 22:20 |
| juiceme | reinob, exactly. the nice thing about IRC is the delay; I can read back later what people have said in the last 24h | 22:20 |
| juiceme | pichlo, that's because of the mobile client... | 22:21 |
| juiceme | when you use it like that, there's no history | 22:21 |
| juiceme | you start the session, and only see messages from that point on | 22:21 |
| pichlo | Sucks | 22:21 |
| reinob | juiceme: that's not even built-in in IRC, you need a bouncer for that. But that's the beauty (in a nerdy sense) of IRC. it's programmable! | 22:21 |
| juiceme | oh yes | 22:21 |
| reinob | tomorrow is world nerd day IIRC | 22:22 |
| juiceme | didn't notice that. how should I celebrati it? | 22:22 |
| reinob | geek pride day | 22:22 |
| reinob | sounds a bit gay-ish, but OK | 22:22 |
| juiceme | maybe I'll take my N810 at work with me... nerdy enough? | 22:22 |
| reinob | :) | 22:23 |
| Win7Mac | hehe | 22:23 |
| juiceme | it's not even old piece of tech... just got it last week. Helped a co-worker to buy a JOlla and he gave me a boxed N810 as a gift :) | 22:24 |
| reinob | cool :) | 22:24 |
| Win7Mac | nice | 22:25 |
| juiceme | amazing thing, even better kbd than on N900 | 22:25 |
| reinob | yesterday I used my jolla again after 5-6 weeks not touching it (have "converted" to android now) and it actually felt good | 22:25 |
| Win7Mac | huh, reinob a turncoat ;) | 22:27 |
| juiceme | heh, nice after a "vacation" :) | 22:27 |
| pichlo | reinob, that's how I feel every time I put down my Jolla and take my N900 | 22:27 |
| eekkelund | juiceme: Nice, you like it?:) | 22:28 |
| reinob | well the jolla was never my thing. for me it's either N900 or Android, but Sailfish didn't quite have the convenience of Android nor the absolute hackiness of N900 | 22:28 |
| reinob | If N900 (or Neo900 whenever it's ready) could support a number of things that have become essential... | 22:28 |
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| eekkelund | reinob, what about N9 ?:) | 22:30 |
| reinob | re. turncoat: not in my mind, but in life you have to make compromises. I've always been an open-source and anti-patent guy and I work in the patent office since 2004... :) | 22:30 |
| reinob | I never had an N9. didn't see it then as an improvement to N900 so I skipped it | 22:30 |
| eekkelund | Oh :/ | 22:32 |
| reinob | Q: besides council at maemo.org and garage at maemo.org, are there any other lists? | 22:32 |
| juiceme | N9 is essential just to know what it feels like in the hand | 22:33 |
| juiceme | it is one of the most holtable devices ever made :) | 22:34 |
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| juiceme | s/holtable/holdable/ | 22:34 |
| reinob | I believe you (although I've never even seen -- let alone touch -- an N9), but the software didn't interest me (closed/open-mode kernel, aegis, etc.) | 22:35 |
| juiceme | for me, N9 was the introduction to Maemo. I only got N900 much, much later. That's the reason it is not so familiar to me | 22:35 |
| juiceme | yes the SW stack of it is a horrible mixup | 22:35 |
| reinob | I started with N900, coming from E75 | 22:35 |
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| juiceme | but MER fixed that and Jolla is MEr... | 22:36 |
| Win7Mac | for me, N9 was the introduction to Maemo too | 22:36 |
| Win7Mac | N9 rules | 22:36 |
| Win7Mac | ;) | 22:36 |
| reinob | I always wanted (want!) a real keyboard. had 6800, E70, E75 and then N900 | 22:36 |
| juiceme | pichlo, dropped out of cellular coverage? | 22:36 |
| juiceme | yes. missing the KBD is the downside of N9 | 22:37 |
| reinob | jolla is much better software-wise. I actually like the whole thing (even with wayland, systemd and btrfs :), but unfortunately the world of apps-for-everything is here to stay (for now), and jolla cannot offer that much | 22:37 |
| juiceme | but it has the most exiting tactile feel of the emulated KBD in all the devices | 22:37 |
| juiceme | I disagree, but that's what I alwasy do. there's even a Tinder client for Jolla now, so what could you want more :) | 22:38 |
| juiceme | ^^^ for the app-oriented people | 22:38 |
| juiceme | but as I was saying, reinob, if you never tried the VKBD of N9 you miss a lot... the haptics is awesome, it is modeled on an old-mechanical-typewriter :) | 22:40 |
| reinob | my decision to buy an android handset (moto g3 2015) was to have working calendar and contacts (jolla worked well with owncloud but every now and then would fvck up) and then some things like whatsapp which I've started to "need". I like K9 as e-mail client and other Android-apps better than their Sailfish-equivalents. But Jolla and Android means lowmem-killer here and there so I thought I'd go for t | 22:41 |
| reinob | he "real" (!) thing and get an android with 2GB of RAM. Works quite well if you ask me :) | 22:41 |
| reinob | (but I still hate it internally) | 22:41 |
| juiceme | reinob, why on earth do you need whatsapp? | 22:44 |
| juiceme | what do you get from it SMS does not cut? | 22:45 |
| reinob | family, kindergarten and school mothers (!), etc. :) | 22:45 |
| juiceme | I just have refused to go there | 22:45 |
| juiceme | if people want to contact me, there's plenty of ways | 22:45 |
| reinob | I know, but... I know :) | 22:46 |
| juiceme | :P | 22:46 |
| juiceme | stay strong, and the force be with you! | 22:46 |
| Win7Mac | haha | 22:46 |
| juiceme | don't go to the dark side! | 22:46 |
| Win7Mac | true! | 22:47 |
| reinob | wait till the Neo900 comes my way. I'll get those mothers to switch to IRC! :))) | 22:47 |
| juiceme | awesome! | 22:47 |
| Win7Mac | or CM at least | 22:47 |
| Win7Mac | cyanogen | 22:47 |
| reinob | I'm fully google-ized. I even use google now and google photos. Really spooky but sooo practical :) | 22:48 |
| Win7Mac | ho no! | 22:48 |
| juiceme | I have given up to using Slack 'cos that's work related. But even so, have been underminig it, doing mole-work and this week it was realized; we are moving to Rocket instead :) | 22:48 |
| Win7Mac | reinob, seems you're lost... | 22:48 |
| Win7Mac | ...to google | 22:49 |
| juiceme | yes, reinob needs a lot of moral support and preaching-to, now :) | 22:49 |
| juiceme | RMS to the rescue! | 22:49 |
| eekkelund | Lets have a moment of silence to our fallen friend | 22:50 |
| reinob | Win7Mac: I'm turning 40 this year. I need to stop hacking around for every damn little thing I need, so I've let myself fall to the dark side, for the convenience of it. But I can get back any time! :) | 22:50 |
| * juiceme keeps a moments silence | 22:50 | |
| eekkelund | Moment has been long enough :D | 22:52 |
| juiceme | ya | 22:52 |
| reinob | yup google now just told me :) | 22:52 |
| juiceme | well hacking is not age-dependent really. it's just a lifetime habit of finding neatness in all things you do | 22:53 |
| juiceme | and definitely neatness != tidiness :) | 22:53 |
| juiceme | I consider myself a hacker and am looking at them 40's from far away on the other side... | 22:54 |
| juiceme | BTW, just this instant there's couple of new spammies in to the council mailing list | 22:58 |
| reinob | that was like 20 minutes ago :) | 22:59 |
| reinob | account compromised or such | 22:59 |
| juiceme | The messages are so pathetic, I wonder why do they bother | 22:59 |
| juiceme | exactly | 22:59 |
| juiceme | and ontains a zipfile | 23:00 |
| Win7Mac | sorry, was afk | 23:00 |
| juiceme | a zipfile my ass! Who nowdays opens zipfiles from email!?? | 23:01 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac np | 23:01 |
| reinob | well I read that 1/3 of German companies have been infected by one of those encrypting trojans | 23:01 |
| juiceme | and without checking I know what's inside. it contains a javascript obfuscated function which looks like gibberish but in reality unpacks itself to a small script that contacts a few addresses to download the rest of the payload | 23:02 |
| Win7Mac | shit | 23:03 |
| juiceme | (I did debug one such thing for LOL's) | 23:03 |
| juiceme | it si so common it has became boring. not even funny any longer | 23:03 |
| juiceme | why don't they try something novel? | 23:04 |
| Win7Mac | seems still some idiots do open such stuff | 23:04 |
| Win7Mac | ...but mot like you | 23:04 |
| juiceme | I just cannot imagine it. People just don't listen whatever you tell them, why? | 23:04 |
| juiceme | it's like 10 years or so since the advice has been "don't open attachments" | 23:05 |
| Win7Mac | so true | 23:06 |
| juiceme | :) | 23:06 |
| *** pichlo has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
| reinob | poor pichlo.. | 23:06 |
| juiceme | well, do we have any business to handle? | 23:07 |
| reinob | ga draft? | 23:07 |
| juiceme | yes, pichlo's dropping off illustrates the problem of mobile IRC clients | 23:07 |
| reinob | have to admit I didn't go thru it but I believe chemist's comments apply. he's like always right anyway ;) | 23:08 |
| juiceme | yes, that. Win7Mac, was chemist going to add something? | 23:08 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st said he will edit the invitation and then send around again | 23:08 |
| reinob | OK | 23:08 |
| Win7Mac | because of formalities | 23:08 |
| juiceme | okay, waiting for it them | 23:08 |
| reinob | re. tor access to maemo.org. if we (council) decide, must techstaff implement it? | 23:09 |
| reinob | or who gets the final word here? | 23:09 |
| Win7Mac | said he's on vacation | 23:09 |
| juiceme | other thing, seems there still are some missing priviligies for councillors, eekkelund cannot write the Council blog. I pinged chemist on it | 23:09 |
| Win7Mac | well council is in charge for the invitation | 23:09 |
| juiceme | reinob, must is a strong word | 23:10 |
| eekkelund | Yeah couldn't see the floating-menu.. | 23:10 |
| juiceme | but I'd say there is a case for it, so unless it proves very difficult it's to be done | 23:10 |
| reinob | juiceme: yes, but we can take it from there (shall, must, should, could, whatever) | 23:10 |
| juiceme | yes | 23:10 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st said https should be doable | 23:11 |
| juiceme | good that | 23:11 |
| juiceme | I was fearing it could be difficult | 23:11 |
| juiceme | as midgard is directly manipulating http connections | 23:11 |
| juiceme | unless do it by proxying the whold shebang behind an apache proxy | 23:12 |
| juiceme | which again could prove to be a bottleneck | 23:12 |
| juiceme | maybe | 23:12 |
| juiceme | but woth studying, yes | 23:12 |
| Win7Mac | juiceme, if pichlo is busy, could you contact techstaff about https, tor and what was that 3rd thing? | 23:13 |
| Win7Mac | I'll look it up | 23:13 |
| reinob | you can access via https but many links go to the http site, which is wrong. I'm afraid the only consistent solution is either to have a global redirect (http to https) or like you say a reverse proxy | 23:13 |
| Win7Mac | or reinob? | 23:13 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac, I can take the AP to check those things | 23:14 |
| reinob | 3rd thing was eekkelund permissions I think | 23:14 |
| reinob | I can ask about https and tor | 23:14 |
| juiceme | okay by me :) | 23:14 |
| juiceme | and since the permissions are awry, I'll write the minutes | 23:15 |
| juiceme | and previous minutes | 23:15 |
| reinob | https://maemo.org already gives a warning in chrome about page trying to load unsafe scripts | 23:15 |
| juiceme | on the provision I have time... | 23:15 |
| eekkelund | Thanks a lot juiceme :) | 23:17 |
| reinob | I put ssl/tor on my to-do list. Hopefully I can do something about it this week | 23:17 |
| juiceme | still lots of my time is taken by the Nokia layoffs. Even as now the co-op negotiations are finished (last friday was the signing day) there's huge amount of support to be arranged for the people to be made redundant.... | 23:17 |
| reinob | what about you? | 23:18 |
| juiceme | well, as employee representative I am safe myself. (that's finnish legislation) | 23:19 |
| Win7Mac | the idea was to grant tor access in read only and/or connect to the "hidden service address" | 23:20 |
| juiceme | but it is my task to carry on the negotiations on behalf of my colleagues | 23:20 |
| Win7Mac | the other issue was spam | 23:20 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac, yes | 23:20 |
| juiceme | spam on TMO or spam on mailing lists? | 23:20 |
| Win7Mac | ...and the idea to prevent spam by altering the way certain mails e.g. garage are handled... like mailing lists | 23:21 |
| juiceme | of TMO, I think there are blacklists that are updated regularily but of course new spammers come in now and then | 23:21 |
| Win7Mac | or somesuch, that's what chem|st said | 23:22 |
| juiceme | okay | 23:22 |
| juiceme | so. | 23:22 |
| juiceme | I think I need to go to bed soom | 23:23 |
| juiceme | soon | 23:23 |
| reinob | me too | 23:23 |
| eekkelund | I should also go.. I got summerjob!:) And after summer I will be parttimer | 23:24 |
| reinob | juiceme: good luck re. nokia! for you and for your colleagues! | 23:24 |
| Win7Mac | ok, gnite then | 23:24 |
| reinob | good night then! | 23:24 |
| Win7Mac | and yes, all the best juiceme | 23:24 |
| juiceme | reinob, thanks! | 23:25 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac, too | 23:25 |
| eekkelund | Good night! :) | 23:25 |
| juiceme | nite! | 23:26 |
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