IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Tuesday, 2015-12-01

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HtheBhey guys21:51
HtheBjuiceme reinob ?21:55
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Win7Machey there22:03
juicemehiya all!22:07
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HtheBI'm stating the meeting22:19
HtheBwe're already too late22:19
peterleinchenhtheb, yep. who joined last? ;)22:19
HtheBnot me :)22:21
peterleinchenI contacted the "guy who wanted to get his garage account removed"22:22
HtheBwhat any reaction?22:22
peterleinchenhe replied but only once, so I do not know about his garage mail forwarder22:22
peterleinchenbut I guess it was still active22:22
juicemedid anybody ask techstaff about the accountremoval?22:23
peterleinchenI forwarded him to send his request to techstaff22:23
juicemegood :)22:23
peterleinchenbut I got no feedback until now22:23
HtheBlets just wait a little bit22:23
HtheBif no reply: case closed22:23
peterleinchenso it seems the garage bouncer was / is still acitve after deactivating account22:24
peterleinchenbut yeah wait for another reply, else  ...22:24
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HtheBjuiceme: thanks for the minutes22:25
HtheBit was great22:25
HtheBTodays topics are about finalizing the rules for the competition22:25
HtheBautomatic calculation of election results22:26
HtheBand discussing spam handling with techstaff.22:26
HtheBI dont know if we could get in touch right now with the techstaff though22:26
peterleinchenfirst I would like to know about status of price awards we (board) already have22:26
juicemeHtheB, no problem. Only I do have a lots to do so it is a fact I just cannot get 'em ready the next morning... try to write up during the following week anyway.22:28
HtheBno prob22:28
HtheBpeterleinchen: good question22:28
juicemethe election results calculation is a kind of a long-haul thingy; it would be nice to have working but might take a lot of tinkering to get working correctly.22:29
HtheBcant we use some third party program?22:30
peterleinchenjuiceme, did xou need to trigger it manually all the time?22:30
juicemeabout the prizes for the competition, currently there are promises but no devices collected yet.22:30
juicemeI think we should probably start a topic on TMO about it.22:30
Win7Macyeah, we need to collect some22:31
HtheBjuiceme: people respect your posts more then mine :-)22:31
HtheBI'm sure you will get more attention with a post on TMO then I od22:31
juicemepeterleinchen, yes, manually every time. I have the impression though that it has been working some tie in the past, altough I never have seen it happen.22:31
Win7MacShould be a blog post so author is "CommunityCouncil"22:31
juicemeHtheB really? how so? You'e moderator ad all... :)22:32
HtheBjuiceme: about the election results: why not just use a third party for election stuff?22:32
HtheBjuiceme: Thats the problem... I'm a moderator22:32
HtheBnot everyone likes moderators :P22:32
juicemeWin7Mac, yes, that would be best opening I think.22:32
HtheBI'm like a dad of TMO :P22:32
peterleinchenhtheb, but how to integrate such 3rd into Midgard???22:32
Win7Macthird party for election stuff?22:32
juicemeHtheB 3rd party?22:32
HtheBI dont know, some sort of website?22:33
Win7Macanybody said third party?22:33
* HtheB hides22:33
juicemewhat? why on earth, when we have on infrastructure for it, intgrated to our user base22:33
Win7MacI mean, whatever works, but...22:34
peterleinchenjuiceme, which is not working :)22:34
juicemeour election system is one of the best pieces of works we have...22:34
juicemepeterleinchen it works perfectly22:34
HtheBthe first result on Google22:34
juicemeonly manual bit needed is run the ballots thru openSTV after the election and post the results :)22:35
Win7Macjuiceme, did you try to hunt down the error with Woody?22:35
Win7MacIf not, please try again?22:35
peterleinchenjuiceme, that is okay to me :)22:35
juicemeWin7Mac I have to admit I cannot remember if I ever asked woody about it.22:35
Win7Mache built it afaik?22:35
peterleinchenI guess you did22:35
juicemeyes, it is woody's legacy22:35
juicemewe have only tightened bits here and there after that.22:36
Win7Macwhy not use the old one?22:36
juicemelast season me and wikiwide added the personal-url-links to the election mails22:37
juicemeWin7Mac you mean the fully manual one?22:37
HtheBjuiceme: is there a way to see how many active users we have on tmo?22:38
juicemethat is still doable, however the php engine works pretty good22:38
Win7Macjuiceme, idk, the last "working one" before you tweaked it22:38
HtheBWe need to have some big campain going on22:38
HtheBto get MORE votes22:38
juicemeHtheB yes I guess... do you mean how many have logged in for a past week or so?22:38
HtheBand have MORE people involved regarding elections22:38
juicemeWin7Mac it is not broken, the tweak we added is just handling links in the mail22:39
Win7Macsure that's all?22:39
peterleinchenwin7mac, and the other not-automatic-calculation was broken before22:40
juicemeHtheB when an election is launched, the mails go to all maemo accounts (but not TMO accounts)22:40
Win7Macautomatic-calculation is what im talking about22:41
HtheBjuiceme, thats the problem!22:41
juicemeas it is, community members is defined as people who do have a account22:41
juicemepeople with only TMO account and no maemo account do not count22:41
HtheB90 % of tmoi doesnt even know about it22:41
peterleinchenand for all that do not know both can/should be linked22:42
HtheBwhy not just do it for 1 change:22:42
Win7Maclast time auto-calculation worked:
juicemeand if we would like to change that, it would be a major overhaul of the whole system. For example, how would you relate current karma with that?22:42
HtheBadd tmo email addresses as well22:42
HtheBto see what will happen22:42
HtheBand how many votes we can get22:42
HtheBjuiceme: post counts?22:43
HtheBtotal likes?22:43
Win7MacHtheB, there is no way to use the system besides "as is"22:43
juicemeWin7Mac are you sure election 37 was calculated automatically?22:43
juicemehowcan you be sure?22:43
HtheBWin7Mac: we have the best coders in house ffs22:44
Win7Macerr... I'm believing here... ;)22:44
HtheBwhy cant we just do something for this!?22:44
juicemeHtheB that would be a major overhaul of the community!22:44
Win7Macprobably a tweak here and there22:44
juicemeI rather would encourage people to register a account!22:44
HtheBit's just fucked up that TMO is not MO22:45
HtheBsorry for the language22:45
HtheBbut it is22:45
juicemewell it is part of our history22:45
HtheBI dont see ANY reason why it shouldn't22:45
HtheBjuiceme: dont stay in the past22:45
peterleinchenhtheb, right. why it should NOT22:45
Win7Mac^^ at least that is what I've heard for years, I'm no expert though22:45
juicemeWin7Mac, help me out here, it's you that designed our community charter...22:46
peterleinchengmo was/is the master database22:46
peterleinchenthen we have wmo and tmo (itt)22:47
peterleinchenall history22:47
Win7Macthe different DBs are the problem22:47
HtheByes, history stays in the history22:47
HtheBwe should look to the future22:47
HtheBwe can't stay like this in the future22:47
peterleinchenno argues against changing22:47
peterleinchenbut one should know how to !!!22:47
HtheBand it's beta for YEARS now...22:47
Win7MacHtheB, that is non-fixable by any of US22:48
peterleinchenand have the manpower / knowledge  to do so22:48
peterleinchenWin7Mac, agree22:48
Win7Macit's been discussed to death years ago22:48
HtheByes discussed.. and now, we need to take ACTION22:48
HtheBdiscussing it doesnt lead to anywhere...22:48
HtheBwe need to do SOMETHING22:48
HtheBnot just discussing it22:48
Win7Macwe could go wordpress... really?22:48
HtheBWin7Mac: much better imo!22:49
HtheBas long as its working right22:49
Win7Macyou port all that funcionabilities?22:49
HtheBwhat we can do is:22:49
HtheBdo some linking22:49
juicemeone theoretical way of achieving it would be to somehow harmonize the user databases of TMO and MO, and have kind of common credentials that would allow you access to both from just one set of authentication service, but that's fairly complicated due to the legacy systems we have, even as the machines are running next-to-eachother...22:49
HtheBtmo auto link to mo22:49
Win7Macwrite extensions for all that shite we have?22:49
HtheBback in the days I was confused that I had to reregister for a website that I've already registered...22:50
HtheB(tmo and mo that is)22:50
juicemeHtheB how much do you know about re-engineering legacy systems... You should know how difficult it is, working in the IT industry yourself :)22:50
HtheBsure, im not saying that its not hard, but it's also not impossible22:51
HtheBthere has to be at least a way to auto generate mo accounts22:51
HtheBbased on the tmo usernames22:51
juicemenothing is impossible when all we have is data and SW.22:51
juicemebut not impossible is often very far from possible22:52
juicemeor let's put it this way:: someone needs to do it22:52
Win7Macjuiceme, right22:52
Win7Macnot me22:52
juicemesomeone with skills, time and drive22:52
juicemeso who is volunteering?22:52
HtheBI would say: put it on tmo22:53
peterleinchenlet me be the nobody in that game ,)22:53
juicemeah, the "nobody did it" :)22:53
Win7MacI mean anybody could do it...22:53
peterleinchenhtheb, what to put on tmo???22:53
Win7Macanybody, you around? ;)22:53
HtheBa message for this job22:53
HtheBas volunteer22:53
peterleinchenhtheb, go ahead. how many volunteers do you expect?22:54
Win7Machehe, something for CC...22:54
juiceme"wanted; skillful SWDEV with 3...5 years of free time to work on a challenging refactoring/rewrite project" :)22:54
peterleinchenbesides they (he she) would need access to the heart  of mo ...22:54
HtheBnice task for Dave99922:55
juicemeand more, think about the problem that you'd need to tweak a live system with thousands of users all the time.22:55
HtheBok another way to do:22:55
juicemetry to modify it *a-lot* without breaking it and no downtime..22:55
peterleinchenyep, no chanceof testign and then go down for hours/ays/...22:56
HtheBsend ALL tmo members a PM, telling to join the force22:56
HtheBthe force, that is MO22:56
Win7Macok, so we discussed... next topic?22:56
HtheBWin7Mac: discussed without any outcome22:57
juicemeHtheB well that is doable, chemist did send everybody the posting about donations22:57
Win7MacHtheB, that is MISSION IMPOSSIBLE22:57
HtheBWin7Mac: I love Mission Impossible22:57
HtheBthat is why we are CC22:57
HtheBwe need to make it possible :)22:57
HtheBchem|st, ping22:57
Win7MacGO AHEAD22:57
reinobhi there22:57
Win7Machi there!22:57
peterleinchenreinob, hi22:57
juicemewe are faciliators, we can discuss this and even find ways to act, true22:57
reinobsorry I'm late and cannot stay22:58
HtheBno prob22:58
peterleinchenreinob, we agreed you to fix the election and the user linkage of mo and tmo22:58
HtheBthe discussion might be too heavy at the moment anyway :P22:58
juicemereinob ok, nice to drop in anyway, :)22:58
Win7Macwe can fix here and there but not the base system. fullstop.22:58
HtheBWin7Mac: thats why we can tell people to create a MO account22:59
HtheBby sending a PM and putting a huge big ass banner on TMO22:59
peterleinchenhtheb, people that read TMO HAS to know that already22:59
HtheBpeterleinchen WRONG!22:59
Win7Macthat is known info22:59
peterleincheneverybody who read any CC election thread was pointed there more than one time22:59
HtheBfor guys like you: yes22:59
HtheBso thats why we only get like 70 votes23:00
juicemeHtheB, I think most people (at least the vocal ones) know it because every time there is an election or referendum this thing is discussed a lot on TMO.23:00
HtheBout of all our members23:00
HtheBjuiceme: it's not hard to send out a PM to everyone23:00
HtheBor even just a popup message23:00
HtheBlike the one you receive when you received a PM23:00
juicemeHtheB, chem|st can do it.23:01
HtheByeah, thats why i pinged him23:01
HtheBbut he's IDLE23:01
HtheB(Like always)23:01
juicemewell, he will see this call later then.23:01
juicemebut OK, could we continue, as it is getting late...?23:02
HtheBok, next topic:23:02
Win7Macyes please23:02
HtheB       * Finalize the coding competition rules.23:02
juicemeokay, I think the categories presented by Win7Mac were pretty OK23:03
HtheBwhere are the current known rules?23:03
Win7MacHtheB, one thought though... you may ask the guys running openrepos for help in that regard...23:03
juicemeI'd say we better write a wiki page of it, based on the previous competition23:04
HtheBjuiceme: sounds ok. Wiki page, post message on TMO23:04
HtheBoh and please, please guys... FRONT PAGE MO23:04
Win7Macthere are no current known rules besides what was done last times23:04
juicemefor example this:
juicemewhen the competition is launched, then front-page-ad23:05
HtheBWin7Mac: im talking about MO23:05
HtheBnot TMO23:05
Win7Macbanner both ;)23:05
juicemeyes, good23:05
Win7MacI'll provide that then23:06
juicemeI'll write up a blog on the devices-for-donation request.23:06
HtheBpeterleinchen asked a nice question23:06
HtheBdo we have anything already?23:06
Win7Macso we need to discuss categories + prizes/funding23:06
juicemeHtheB only promises, no devices collected yet23:07
HtheBi think that we should start collecting then23:07
Win7Macmy main concern: get the "right2 devices to the "right" devs23:07
HtheBso we dont have "empty announcements"23:07
juicemeWin7Mac do we need to know what we need as prizes before I'll write the request?23:07
Win7Macdon't think so23:08
HtheB(by empty, i mean: Hey guys we are holding a coding competion, and you MIGHT win a price.... )23:08
HtheBWin7Mac: I do think so23:08
Win7Macthere should be "something for everybody"...23:08
HtheBthats what I mean with empty announcement23:08
HtheByes, a kiss on his/her forehead? :)23:08
HtheBwe sould collect at least some stuff before we can say what they could win23:08
HtheBofcourse, it can get expanded later on23:08
HtheBbut we need to have SOMETHING you know :)23:09
Win7Macwe have categories for all devices23:09
Win7Macyeah i know23:09
juicemeOK, I'll write up a piece, run it thru your review by email, and then post, OK?23:09
* HtheB does thumbs up23:09
peterleinchenjuiceme, we will not say we WILL have a Coding Competition, but we WANT to have23:09
peterleinchenand therefore we would like to collect ...23:10
juicemeI have no doubt we will get donations, only what and how much is the question :)23:11
Win7Macthere already is
peterleinchena log post willopen a thread where we may discuss everything later, also the categories or23:11
peterleinchenwin7mac, 18 months ...23:12
Win7Macnew blog post would be nice for evaluation the CC conditions23:12
juicemeyes, that was not finished, too bad23:12
juicemeso, who wants to start drafting the wiki page?23:12
peterleinchenwin7mac, you said openrepos. what kind of help you expect/request?23:13
Win7Macnot sure23:14
Win7Macbut they're handling with DB I gues...23:15
juicemeat least the contest entries could be stored to openrepos for easy access.23:16
HtheBnice idea23:17
Win7MacWe might want to somewhat draw the competition towards what's needed by community (SW) and by the devs (HW)23:17
Win7Macand ask community what they want23:18
HtheBAre there any questions regarding these topics?23:18
Win7Macsomeone should audit the SW...23:19
juicemesorry, was afk23:20
juicemeabout auditing, right?23:21
juicemehmm I am not sure how it has been done before?23:21
HtheBme neither23:21
HtheBthought you might have some idea23:22
juicemebut it is true, just in case someone pranksster wants to post viruses as competition entry23:22
Win7Macif we restrict to FOSS only, community could do it23:22
juicemehow's it been before, are binary-only entries accepted? or do we need to have all open-source?23:23
Win7Macbefore, closed source was accepted23:23
Win7Maclike Billboard23:24
HtheBim not against closed either23:24
Win7Maci am23:24
juicemeI am of course for the all-in-the-open option, but it might be it is too restrictive23:24
HtheBmany tmo members already open their stuff anyways23:24
Win7Macwell, that's what we have on our flag...23:24
HtheBWin7Mac: what about making this news on other websites?23:25
juicemebut indeed binary-only entries do present a problem. There has to be someone willing to test those on their own devices23:25
HtheBother maemo/jolla communities23:25
Win7MacHtheB, why not?23:25
Win7Maci mean: sure23:25
juicemesure, that's a good idea23:25
juicemea post on TJC might get us new members :)23:26
HtheBI could post on tjc23:26
HtheBwhen the competition is confirmed23:26
peterleinchenWin7Mac, really. closed entries were allowed?23:27
juicemeyes, but let's launch it first on maemo.23:27
peterleinchenI would go for open only23:27
HtheBpeterleinchen: the person who would want to open it, would open it any way23:27
juicemeok, if we vote, I'll also go for open23:27
HtheBbut some devs might create an app just for the competition sake23:28
HtheBbut it might be that he/she doesnt want to open it23:28
HtheBwhich would lead to less apps on the compo23:28
juicemeyes, it is a risk doing it.23:28
Win7Macso shall it be then23:29
juicemehowever it is a risk also to allow unknown binaies23:29
Win7Maccommunity should be able to audit IMHO23:29
Win7Macisn't open code what we're aiming for?23:30
juicemeeasy if entries are in github for example23:30
HtheBWin7Mac: I rather have some apps, then no apps23:30
HtheBsailfish for example, has already not so many apps :(23:31
Win7Mactrue too23:31
Win7Macfor SF, that may be a different thing23:31
peterleinchensailfish has ANDROID support :)23:31
HtheBpeterleinchen: no, Jolla has Android support :)23:31
peterleinchendo we allow android apps???23:31
Win7Macsure not23:32
juicemeyes, for those that _want_ to use android apps... :)23:32
HtheBI dont think we should23:32
HtheBandroid is nice yes23:32
HtheBbut, if we want to keep things alive, let it atleast be native apps23:32
HtheBI dont care about open or not23:32
HtheBas long as its native23:32
HtheBI'm fine23:32
juicemereason IMHO: there already are so many android apps nobody needs more23:32
juicemesame for WP apps.23:33
HtheBanother thing that I would to add up for the compo23:33
juicemewell not so many but we don't need 'em23:33
HtheBWe should ask chem|st to make a new Sub thread23:33
juicemejust for the competition?23:34
Win7MacHtheB, Council can do that23:34
HtheBalright thats great then!23:34
HtheBso people can post their apps on it23:34
Win7Macas blogpost23:34
HtheBand link the app on openrepos23:34
HtheBpeople can discuss the app on the topic23:34
HtheBthat is generally how competitions are held on forums that I've joined before23:35
HtheB(Nintendo DS compos)23:35
HtheBwe could make something like:23:35
juicemewhat, they actually hold coding compos for Nintendo??23:35
juicemeI knew there's a sorts of homebrew on those things but I always thought it's more or less a curiosity...23:36
peterleinchenhere is an excerpt form rules 2012:23:36
HtheB- Coding competition23:36
HtheB   | - Fremantle23:36
HtheB   |     | - All sub categories23:36
HtheB   |23:36
HtheB   | - Harmattan23:36
HtheB   |23:36
HtheB   |     | - All sub categories23:36
peterleinchenApps must be available as executable and your entry should include at least two screen shots and a brief description to take part in the election. The applications have to run on default hardware running on an official version of Maemo or Harmattan.23:36
HtheB   |23:37
HtheB   | - Saifish OS23:37
HtheB   |     | - All sub categories23:37
HtheBjuiceme: yes, homebrew coding competitions23:37
HtheBthese coding compos have made the homebrew community very big23:37
Win7Macshould we ask OpenRepos admins for having their infra to submit applications in that intent?23:38
juicemeHtheB, good diagram, pity that peterleinchen's post is smack in the middle of it :)23:38
HtheBjuiceme: haha23:38
juicemeWin7Mac probably a good idea23:38
HtheBWin7Mac: They won't disagree on this23:38
HtheBbut I'll ask Custodian for this23:38
HtheBI will pm him right now concerning this23:39
Win7Macand why not consider improvements on our infra as a category?23:40
Win7Macor support the guys at openrepos?23:40
HtheBWin7Mac: remember what happened to "MeeGo store"?23:40
juicemeyes, that's possible too.23:40
juicemeHtheB, no, what?23:41
HtheBThe guys from OpenRepos deserves some attention23:41
HtheBthey opened up a door for us and made our lives easier :)23:41
HtheBWITHOUT asking any money23:41
HtheBthere are not even ads on the site23:41
HtheB(or does it? because I have ad blocker :P)23:42
juicemehey, just a headsup, I need to go in a minute...23:42
HtheBthere was a Meego store in development a long time ago23:42
peterleinchenjuiceme, have a good rest23:42
HtheBdont remember its original name anymore23:42
juicemeHtheB was it non-nokia store?23:43
HtheBbut it never became useful23:43
Win7Macthat's an entry for my suggested category "recent contributors (recent major releases)"23:43
HtheBno it was or something23:43
juicemepeterleinchen, you too!23:43
Win7Mac^^openrepos i mean23:43 iirc23:43
HtheBpeterleinchen: yes that one23:43
HtheBgood night bro23:44
HtheBthanks for joining23:44
juicemeI'll write up the minutes afterwards, if you continue meeting.23:44
HtheBI think we'll almost at the end of the meeting :)23:44
Win7Macjuiceme, gnite, sorry you're leaving so abrupt23:44
Win7MacHtheB, when you ask Custodian to use their infra for the CC, also ask what MC e.V. could do to show some love for what they're doing23:48
HtheBWe (the Community Council) would like to hold a Coding Competition here on TMO very soon.23:48
HtheBBut I would like to ask you, if we could ask people to upload their apps on OpenRepos so people could download it on their phones directly using Warehouse.23:48
HtheBIt would also be nice to have a "Coding Competition" button as an extra category (or rather calling it, a Tag. So when the coding competition is over, the tag can be removed and the apps would be in the correct category)23:48
HtheBHope to get a reply :)23:48
HtheBBest regards,23:48
HtheBHalit Bal23:48
HtheBhaven't sent the message yet23:48
HtheBok, that would be nice to add indeed23:48
Win7Macplease put that in an email so we can respond/tweak/add it...23:49
* peterleinchen think so too23:51
Win7Macnice start though23:51
peterleinchenfirst mail to CC, then sent out23:51
peterleinchenwin7mac, yes23:51
HtheBi mean, mail sent :)23:51
peterleinchenwe should mention for MeeGo only as for maemo we have own infra23:51
peterleinchenand just copied CC wiki page to
peterleinchenso feel free to edit23:52
peterleinchenofc first check, read23:52
peterleinchenbut e.g. contact info is outdated23:52
peterleinchenabout categories and prizes we go for edit when we know ...23:53
peterleinchenbut please all go23:53
HtheBAlright then23:53
HtheBI guess thats it for today I guess?23:53
peterleinchenI di not tale latest but latest version before election was closed !23:54
Win7MacI'd start from scratch23:54
peterleinchengo ahead ;)23:54
Win7Macnow that tha page exists...23:54
peterleinchenat least this is a starting point (you can delete what you like)23:55
peterleinchenor delete complete content and start anew23:55
peterleinchenno prob, page is there23:55
Win7Macsure, we should involve community asap, we still need to figure how to get it "right", get the full figure...23:56
Win7Macand since it's done by and meant for community...23:57
Win7Macdone by = participants23:59

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