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| peterleinchen | hey | 22:03 |
|---|---|---|
| reinob | ho | 22:04 |
| peterleinchen | reinob, zu dieser zeit bald schon wieder "ho ho ho" :) | 22:05 |
| reinob | genau :) | 22:05 |
| HtheB | hi | 22:05 |
| reinob | hi father :) | 22:06 |
| HtheB | everyone is here? juiceme? | 22:06 |
| HtheB | I would like to start the meeting | 22:06 |
| reinob | fine | 22:06 |
| reinob | Win7Mac and juiceme still haven't shown themselves | 22:06 |
| HtheB | ok, calling juiceme | 22:07 |
| HtheB | just a sec | 22:07 |
| HtheB | ok, he should be here any minute | 22:07 |
| reinob | thx | 22:07 |
| peterleinchen | being on, but need to fetch up a bit of today's news :( | 22:10 |
| HtheB | todays news? | 22:10 |
| HtheB | peterleinchen: check it out in about 30 minutes | 22:11 |
| HtheB | I dot want to make this meeting long | 22:11 |
| HtheB | Let start it. The other persons will be here soon | 22:11 |
| HtheB | dont * | 22:11 |
| reinob | me neither. (haven't watched the news yet, but OK). | 22:11 |
| HtheB | thanks reinob for the agenda | 22:12 |
| reinob | HtheB: about being chairman/writing the minutes: any problem with that? or OK if Juice assists with it | 22:12 |
| HtheB | writing the minutes is really a pain for me | 22:13 |
| HtheB | I would however love to lead | 22:13 |
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| reinob | :) | 22:13 |
| reinob | hey Win7Mac | 22:13 |
| Win7Mac | hi! | 22:13 |
| reinob | OK with that. you can stay as chairman and Juice writes the minutes | 22:13 |
| reinob | I can backup for him if/as needed | 22:13 |
| reinob | all OK with that? | 22:13 |
| Win7Mac | ok | 22:13 |
| HtheB | es | 22:14 |
| HtheB | Welcome Win7Mac, we have just begun | 22:14 |
| HtheB | reinob: To be honest, I've never heard that a chairman releases notes | 22:14 |
| Win7Mac | ;) | 22:14 |
| HtheB | isn't that the job of the "secretary"? | 22:14 |
| reinob | yup | 22:14 |
| reinob | tomorrow I have two hearings, as chairman. Somebody else has to do the writing :) | 22:15 |
| Win7Mac | there is no "secretary" position in council, only chair | 22:15 |
| HtheB | Win7Mac: I suggest to have it then | 22:15 |
| Win7Mac | ;) | 22:15 |
| HtheB | adding as an agenda point | 22:15 |
| Win7Mac | basically MM are the only duty | 22:16 |
| reinob | Juice is not here, but let's put it this way: if Juice is OK then OK, if not then me, so at least we can be 100% sure that the position of "secretary" can be created and be filled | 22:16 |
| HtheB | reinob: that would be great | 22:17 |
| Win7Mac | no need to invent anything | 22:17 |
| reinob | virtual secretary.. | 22:17 |
| reinob | or ghost writer if you will :) | 22:17 |
| HtheB | Win7Mac: something wrong with it? | 22:18 |
| reinob | of course this leaves the question: what does a chairman do? | 22:18 |
| HtheB | chairman: leading the meeting, asking for stuff if things are done | 22:18 |
| HtheB | you know... what a chairman usually does.. | 22:18 |
| peterleinchen | announce stuff on TMO and/or MO | 22:19 |
| peterleinchen | lead voting internally here on irc | 22:19 |
| HtheB | peterleinchen: usually a secretary prepares the paperwork/text | 22:19 |
| HtheB | and the chairman can announce it yes | 22:20 |
| HtheB | but since the secretary has the same rights, he might as well post it directly too | 22:20 |
| * HtheB is calling juiceme again | 22:20 | |
| peterleinchen | chairman is his own secretary :) | 22:20 |
| reinob | OK I'll make my position clear: the discussion, from my point of view, is about minute writing, so not really about general "secretary" work. Either Juice and/or me could take care of that, but whatever other responsibilites the chairman has or may have are his own. | 22:22 |
| HtheB | lets skip to the next point, we will fall back on this one if thats ok | 22:22 |
| HtheB | * Spam via garage/council ML | 22:23 |
| reinob | today there was a spam e-mail where even the from: was council@maemo.org | 22:23 |
| HtheB | Today, I've received even an email from the council email itself | 22:23 |
| HtheB | reinob: yes, exactly | 22:23 |
| reinob | Trivial to fake but easy to spot. We let it pass thru | 22:23 |
| juiceme | hiya! | 22:23 |
| reinob | hey ho! | 22:23 |
| Win7Mac | i'm ok with a secretary | 22:23 |
| juiceme | sorry I was away, I had a bit of network related issues... | 22:24 |
| reinob | Win7Mac: should be define its functions. But then we need to define those of the chairman | 22:24 |
| HtheB | welcome to the meeting | 22:24 |
| reinob | s/be/we/ | 22:24 |
| Win7Mac | ok | 22:25 |
| juiceme | I changed some furniture around, and while doing that I ended up moving my router & wlan to different location | 22:25 |
| HtheB | ok lets continue where we are right now | 22:25 |
| reinob | you mean spam? | 22:25 |
| HtheB | we 'll come back to the first point | 22:25 |
| HtheB | yeas | 22:25 |
| HtheB | yes | 22:25 |
| juiceme | just a moment I'll read backlog | 22:25 |
| HtheB | while juiceme reads: What can we do about it | 22:25 |
| juiceme | and thanks HtheB for the reminder :) | 22:26 |
| HtheB | np | 22:26 |
| HtheB | it's getting worse each day | 22:26 |
| reinob | on spam: we can only make a "formal" request to techstaff to | 22:26 |
| reinob | (1) make sure only registered users get the emails | 22:26 |
| reinob | (2) see how the incoming filter can be hardened a bit | 22:26 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st said: "As mail@ is a plain bounce/fwd without mailboxes there is no sane way to filter spam but at | 22:27 |
| Win7Mac | your own end, as the incoming addresses are new to your system or rather it had | 22:27 |
| Win7Mac | not that much spam yet the filtering will not work as expected as long as you do | 22:27 |
| Win7Mac | not train your system further" | 22:27 |
| reinob | the use a trainable (bayesian) filter, which is not so good for this role | 22:27 |
| HtheB | Win7Mac: what about todays mail? | 22:27 |
| reinob | same thing, anyone can use anything as "from:" | 22:27 |
| reinob | but it does look horrible for our image | 22:28 |
| Win7Mac | i had no spam today | 22:28 |
| Win7Mac | but a lot recently | 22:28 |
| Win7Mac | via garage and whatnot | 22:29 |
| HtheB | Win7Mac: A lot of tech and website requests? :) | 22:29 |
| reinob | I cannot say for sure that another filter or other filter settings could make a better job. spam fighting is hard. | 22:29 |
| Win7Mac | various shit | 22:29 |
| HtheB | what about changing the prefix for a while? | 22:30 |
| reinob | maybe we should go for a whitelist. only registered users can send e-mails from the outside (i.e. system-generated e-mails like garage builds etc are still OK) | 22:30 |
| HtheB | untill bots finds out the new email :) | 22:30 |
| HtheB | reinob: sounds ok to me | 22:30 |
| Win7Mac | i find it hard to believe that there's no way to apply a filter | 22:30 |
| reinob | they check if IP is in SPAMCOP and other lists. Not much more | 22:31 |
| reinob | e.g. X-policyd-weight: NOT_IN_SPAMCOP=-1.5 NOT_IN_BL_NJABL=-1.5 CL_IP_EQ_FROM_IP=-2 (check from: .huixin. - helo: .mail.mx9.huixin. - helo-domain: .huixin.) FROM/MX_MATCHES_HELO(DOMAIN)=-2 IN_AHBL=1.8; rate: -5.2 | 22:31 |
| Win7Mac | huh... | 22:31 |
| juiceme | OK, now am active :) | 22:31 |
| reinob | all negative (good) scores, but still spam | 22:31 |
| juiceme | being secretary is OK by me. | 22:31 |
| HtheB | Good! | 22:32 |
| juiceme | only, be prepared that I might not immediately have the minutes ready the next dat... | 22:32 |
| reinob | juiceme: great. We still need to define the precise functions. Not that HtheB would request something indecent from you :) | 22:32 |
| * HtheB scraps off the first agenda point | 22:32 | |
| juiceme | next day I mean | 22:32 |
| Win7Mac | no prob | 22:32 |
| HtheB | Thats ok | 22:32 |
| HtheB | chem|st: are you active? | 22:33 |
| juiceme | about the spam, if I understood correctly there really is not much that can be done. | 22:33 |
| juiceme | since the mailing lists are not real lists, only mail forwarders it is not possible to implement spam filtering | 22:33 |
| HtheB | what about making them real lists? | 22:34 |
| juiceme | so each one should have filtering by their own provider. | 22:34 |
| Win7Mac | hehe | 22:34 |
| juiceme | HtheB, wel that could be a possibility | 22:34 |
| peterleinchen | juiceme, are you going to tell t-online? ;) | 22:34 |
| reinob | wait wait. there are no mailboxes that's OK but a mailing list can have (and we have) spam filtering. It's just not suited for this type of mailing list (apparently) | 22:34 |
| juiceme | like the community list for example, that has filtering | 22:34 |
| Win7Mac | aha... | 22:35 |
| reinob | juiceme: of course you can and should filter. but we are de facto spreading spam. we are going to get blacklisted like real soon | 22:35 |
| juiceme | peterleinchen, I have no idea what's the procedure at t-online, my mailserver is run by a friend who is really paranoid sysadmin :) | 22:35 |
| peterleinchen | :) | 22:36 |
| reinob | rule #1 about spam: you don't send spam | 22:36 |
| peterleinchen | reinob, not WE are sending spam | 22:36 |
| HtheB | :D | 22:36 |
| peterleinchen | and it is not via mail server afaiunderstood | 22:36 |
| reinob | of course we are! the maemo.org server is receiving a spam e-mail addressed to council@maemo.org, which happily forwards to whoever is on that list | 22:37 |
| HtheB | what IF we were sending it? | 22:37 |
| HtheB | (conspiracy theory :P) | 22:37 |
| reinob | we are multiplying spam for f** sake | 22:37 |
| Win7Mac | right | 22:37 |
| HtheB | reinob: you have a point | 22:37 |
| peterleinchen | true | 22:37 |
| reinob | and being on the council I don't want anyone to complain to me that he's getting spam from me | 22:37 |
| peterleinchen | there should be only other councilors ... | 22:38 |
| HtheB | what about that person who complained that he was actually unscribed from the garage account | 22:38 |
| HtheB | and still receive it? | 22:38 |
| peterleinchen | htheb do not mix up lets finish first | 22:38 |
| reinob | perhaps user error (who knows). we can only ask techstaff as we (I) cannot check how that all works | 22:38 |
| Win7Mac | I put techstaff in CC, but no answer from them so far, we should ask again | 22:39 |
| peterleinchen | I never received spam via community mailing lists, only via council (and maybe also garage) | 22:39 |
| reinob | yup me too: garage and council only | 22:39 |
| HtheB | mee to | 22:39 |
| HtheB | me too | 22:39 |
| reinob | I can write to techstaff and request information or ask for ideas how/what can be improved | 22:40 |
| peterleinchen | so there is difference between council/garage and lists | 22:40 |
| reinob | draft to you all first | 22:40 |
| peterleinchen | reinob, yes please thanks | 22:40 |
| reinob | off the top of my head I don't know what other lists we have.any example you can provide? | 22:40 |
| juiceme | reinob the problem is not really that bad. There are just a few forwarders; the council address, the board address, the donation address, the techstaff address AFAIK. | 22:40 |
| Win7Mac | reinob, yes please, thanks | 22:41 |
| juiceme | community list, devel list etc are real lists with filtering | 22:41 |
| juiceme | What I mean, for example, is that spam sent to the council address goes to just us, nobody else. | 22:42 |
| HtheB | juiceme: you love to get spam? | 22:42 |
| juiceme | we are *not* spreading spam | 22:42 |
| peterleinchen | juiceme, exactly | 22:42 |
| juiceme | HtheB as I said I do not see much of it. My sysadmin has good filters | 22:42 |
| peterleinchen | but what about garage? | 22:42 |
| juiceme | about garage I am not sure how many are on it. | 22:43 |
| juiceme | but you are correct, garage is a forwarder I think. | 22:43 |
| Win7Mac | i also got spam only via garage and council | 22:43 |
| reinob | juiceme: yes OK, I only added a bit of drama to it. But still unacceptable | 22:43 |
| peterleinchen | reinob, I feel it as annoying to hell. But ... | 22:44 |
| reinob | OK asking costs nothing. Let's see what possibilites we have | 22:45 |
| peterleinchen | so lets wait for techstaff answer. and ask for presence herenext week? | 22:45 |
| reinob | ACK | 22:45 |
| Win7Mac | +1 | 22:45 |
| HtheB | +1 | 22:45 |
| peterleinchen | so back to the one guy of garage | 22:45 |
| HtheB | yes | 22:45 |
| peterleinchen | htheb, you know the sequence? | 22:45 |
| juiceme | well what we could do is make all the forwarders lists. however that does create management overhead. | 22:45 |
| reinob | I'll include that in my question. Need to check the exact case and find out if it was user error or a bug on our side | 22:46 |
| HtheB | About the guy: he seems like he wants a project to be deleted | 22:46 |
| reinob | what's the difference between "forwarder" and "list"? | 22:47 |
| HtheB | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/panu/ | 22:47 |
| peterleinchen | afair he deleted his account and still got mail via garage.m.o | 22:47 |
| HtheB | peterleinchen: yes, but he also asked to remove this project | 22:47 |
| juiceme | reinob, it is just a bouncer that delivers incoming mail to other adresses, like a procmail filter. | 22:48 |
| reinob | maybe the project still has leftovers with his e-mail address | 22:48 |
| reinob | that's to me a forwarder, or a list. You seemed to imply there's a difference | 22:48 |
| juiceme | a list is like majordomo, has maintanance and lots of different automatics | 22:48 |
| reinob | ah OK | 22:48 |
| juiceme | for example the community list has restrictions, you need to be subscribed to it to send anything. Else it goes to a holding queue and not to the list until a list moderator has reviewed it | 22:50 |
| reinob | OK then I'd say the garage/council forwarder should be turned into real lists | 22:51 |
| juiceme | should the ruleset be same as the community list, only those who have subscribed to it can post? | 22:52 |
| reinob | for garage I don't know. I thought it only (should) send automatic computer-generated messages. | 22:53 |
| reinob | for council only council members should be able to send and receive | 22:53 |
| chem|st | HtheB: idle | 22:53 |
| juiceme | anyway, that's something that needs to be done by techstaff, so need to discuss with them about it. | 22:53 |
| juiceme | chem|st, hi | 22:54 |
| peterleinchen | chem|st, hi. what about idle? | 22:54 |
| chem|st | I am idle, always | 22:54 |
| juiceme | :) | 22:54 |
| peterleinchen | :9 | 22:54 |
| chem|st | I see you are on about email, spamfiltering has to be done at your end | 22:54 |
| reinob | chem|st: can you check backlog and give a quick opinion | 22:54 |
| juiceme | reinob, council list can be used also by anyone wanting to contact council... | 22:54 |
| reinob | a spammer as well | 22:55 |
| chem|st | yes a spammer as well | 22:55 |
| juiceme | true, hence filtering. | 22:55 |
| chem|st | yeah but what do you do with your own mail accounts? | 22:55 |
| peterleinchen | reinob, as your own mail address | 22:55 |
| juiceme | reinob, what's your mail provider, do you have any configurable/automatic filtreing there? | 22:55 |
| reinob | it does look really bad if spam is sent from our system. don't expect legal troubles (but we could get them). technically, we're going to get blacklisted sooner than later | 22:56 |
| chem|st | maemo.org has a bouncing relay for things that is not a mailinglist | 22:56 |
| juiceme | reinob, it is going nowhere except us | 22:56 |
| chem|st | MLs are moderated | 22:56 |
| reinob | I have my own postfix server, at the moment without filtering (it's a toy for now). gmail works OK. | 22:56 |
| juiceme | yes | 22:56 |
| juiceme | the mailing lists have wide distribution, but the forwarders only few people each. | 22:57 |
| reinob | I repeat: problem is not us filtering or not at our end. Problem is "users" (whatever the definition) complaining that they get spam from us | 22:57 |
| chem|st | so what you guys need to do is pump those spam mails to your filtersystem so it gets to learn that it is spam, just like you do with your private mail | 22:57 |
| juiceme | reinob not possible AFAIK | 22:57 |
| chem|st | reinob: not possible | 22:57 |
| reinob | chem|st: you're not getting it. I'm sorry. | 22:57 |
| chem|st | now I got it | 22:58 |
| reinob | OK :) | 22:58 |
| juiceme | any spammer sending to council will only send it to us, no other users | 22:58 |
| juiceme | same to board, only to board | 22:58 |
| reinob | is it only council and garage? can we confirm that? | 22:58 |
| chem|st | reinob: I can send you spam with your own address just to show you that anyone can use your address | 22:58 |
| peterleinchen | and for garage about the same, only MO "staff" people | 22:58 |
| reinob | of course, but not through my server | 22:58 |
| chem|st | so what? | 22:59 |
| reinob | (1) legal, (2) image, (3) blacklist, (4) I don't freaking like it | 22:59 |
| chem|st | the implementation for checking validity of mailaddresses is buggy | 22:59 |
| juiceme | I don't believe it comes thru maemo.org servers, it's probably just forged server address. looking at the transfer headers should proof that. | 23:00 |
| reinob | SPF would solve it, if all of our users have that | 23:00 |
| reinob | juiceme: nope. It's maemo.org alright | 23:00 |
| chem|st | and there is your buggy | 23:00 |
| peterleinchen | I guess reinob means "we" are forwarding/resending spam | 23:00 |
| juiceme | reinob if so, then there is a bug in the mail server configuration. | 23:01 |
| chem|st | reinob: what user gets what email? | 23:01 |
| juiceme | I am intrested of it too. | 23:01 |
| juiceme | any headers to eyeball? | 23:01 |
| chem|st | check our mx for being an open relay and send logs to techstaff<at> | 23:01 |
| reinob | you can probably check that? council is just us (?) garage is everyone? | 23:01 |
| reinob | it's not strictly an open relay because it only accepts e-mails to maemo.org addresses | 23:02 |
| juiceme | I am not sure if garage is a bouncer or a list | 23:02 |
| chem|st | reinob: ehrm, email sent to garage addresses is relayed through us but not origin us | 23:02 |
| reinob | exactly. external user sends e-mail, we (maemo.org) send it to our users | 23:02 |
| chem|st | that is a whole other issue, and I thought that is fixed | 23:03 |
| juiceme | reinob, ok now I understand | 23:03 |
| chem|st | is it sent to developer group addresses? that be a bug | 23:03 |
| chem|st | useraddresses is not a bug, that is meant to be | 23:03 |
| chem|st | missing the full header is probably a bug | 23:04 |
| reinob | I don't know. Who's "garage"? is there a list somewhere? all users with a garage account I presume. But still they should not get external spam from who-knows-what-spammer | 23:04 |
| juiceme | but that's just like sending spam to me@myhost if it is sent to me@garage, what it means is that the mail address has leaked to the spammers and there is not much that can be done about it currently | 23:04 |
| chem|st | reinob: you can send mail to any $user@garage.mo account | 23:05 |
| reinob | juiceme: exactly, but changing the address cannot be the solution | 23:05 |
| reinob | but then it's ME doing the spam and getting the blame. I don't want maemo.org to be blamed or accused of spreading spam to its users | 23:05 |
| juiceme | reinob, the way email works there is not much that can be done about it except receiver side filtering | 23:05 |
| chem|st | so you want us to stop relaying mails through garage? | 23:06 |
| Win7Mac | no, just filtering | 23:06 |
| juiceme | chem|st that's doable I think, how many people need to get external mail to garage address anyway? | 23:06 |
| chem|st | juiceme: all | 23:07 |
| reinob | If there's no way to verify that the sender is authorised then we could at least add a footer apologizing if the above text happens to be spam. | 23:07 |
| reinob | "peinlich" but effective | 23:07 |
| chem|st | the addresses can be used as maintainer address for projects | 23:08 |
| chem|st | and else... | 23:08 |
| juiceme | yes of course, you need to register to projects, github, whatever. | 23:08 |
| juiceme | so it is not an option | 23:09 |
| chem|st | locking it to only receive from within maemo might be blocking actual mail not coming from us (us as in staff) | 23:09 |
| reinob | OK good to know that | 23:10 |
| juiceme | reinob, earlier you mentioned that someone has received spam to her garage address, that was forged so that the seder was your garage address, did I understand correctly? | 23:10 |
| Win7Mac | warfare, xes, you around? | 23:10 |
| chem|st | reinob: your liability concern, I will ask merlin if he is able to change the workings to preserve the original headers | 23:10 |
| reinob | juiceme: no, today council got e-mail from "council@maemo.org" | 23:11 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: neither one's domain | 23:11 |
| juiceme | reinob that one is just a normal sender forgery | 23:11 |
| Win7Mac | hm, probably should be then? | 23:11 |
| chem|st | merlin | 23:11 |
| juiceme | I get spam all the time that is originating from juice@swagman.org :) | 23:11 |
| reinob | define "originating". "From: " means nothing. | 23:12 |
| peterleinchen | juiceme, you write spam to yourself??? ;) | 23:12 |
| chem|st | 80% of my spam is my own mail addresses as sender | 23:12 |
| reinob | Today: | 23:12 |
| reinob | Received: from 186-78-196-91.baf.movistar.cl (186-78-196-91.baf.movistar.cl [186.78.196.91]) by mail.maemo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D49841E1B for <council@maemo.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:09:23 +0000 (UTC) | 23:12 |
| juiceme | yes, it seems to be a common spammer trick | 23:12 |
| reinob | so maemo.org got that from 186.78.196.91 | 23:12 |
| reinob | with From and To "council@maemo.org" | 23:12 |
| reinob | Lame but should be avoidable (SPF) | 23:13 |
| chem|st | reinob: common | 23:13 |
| chem|st | SPF does not prevent that | 23:13 |
| reinob | if maemo.org says only maemo.org and not some chilean crap then yes, it does | 23:13 |
| chem|st | reinob: or you would never receive my mails | 23:14 |
| juiceme | yes, that one could be fixed easily, just allow receiving FROM: headers of maemo.org only from inside hosts | 23:14 |
| Win7Mac | nobody can send from council@... | 23:14 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac, exactly | 23:14 |
| chem|st | I am sending through university so from server is sushi, relayed through mail. wher it exits uni networks | 23:14 |
| chem|st | juiceme: so that locks me out | 23:15 |
| reinob | In this case it had "From: council@maemo.org" but this is irrelevant. Point is, the e-mail was accepted, with clear indications of being bogus, and then happily distributed to the list | 23:15 |
| juiceme | chem|st, you are not sending FROM:council, so it does not lock out | 23:15 |
| chem|st | I think you misunderstand how email works | 23:15 |
| chem|st | if you just prevent council@ yes | 23:16 |
| reinob | chem|st with SPF you can not only define A or MX but also smarthosts. But then people need to make sure they're doing it right. Not gonna happen :( | 23:16 |
| chem|st | reinob: never! | 23:16 |
| reinob | I was there when e-mail was invented. I think I know how it works | 23:16 |
| chem|st | gmail blocked all maemo.org for weeks after our server move, with all records straight - that much for how reliable SPF is | 23:17 |
| Win7Mac | ;) | 23:17 |
| juiceme | filtering the obvious sender fields off can easily be done, this way at least this kind of spam is dropped. However, of course the sender can use anything else as FROM header... | 23:17 |
| chem|st | well I am using it wrong too.. I just set the from to whatever I want reply-to to be, but I do that as people use stupid mailprograms with settings ignoring reply-to headers! | 23:18 |
| juiceme | I have never actually run across any of that kind of mailers, even as many time heard that people do it. | 23:20 |
| juiceme | what is so broken? | 23:20 |
| reinob | yup. I mean, I understand what you're saying but the difference here is that we manage a distribution list, so that whatever is (trivially) faked gets forwarded by us. This is what I don't like, but I realize there are no magic solutions to this. A bit of SPF, a bit of Spamassassin, etc. | 23:20 |
| juiceme | the problem of SPF is, it works only if the spammer does not have her own domain. | 23:21 |
| chem|st | reinob: the garage issue might need some attention, I guess it should at least do some sanity check | 23:21 |
| juiceme | of course all measures cut down the volume a little | 23:21 |
| reinob | OK | 23:22 |
| juiceme | does not hurt to run a light check now and then on any system and verify settings. | 23:22 |
| peterleinchen | back to the user request to delete a project page | 23:23 |
| juiceme | ah yes. | 23:23 |
| peterleinchen | chem|st, are we supposed to do that? | 23:23 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen: I tell merlin | 23:23 |
| juiceme | Never tried it, but I thought one should be able to delete own projects | 23:23 |
| reinob | I notice that the latest spam e-mails had in X-policyd-weight "NOT_IN_SPAMCOP" and "NOT_IN_BL_NJABL", giving them 3 (-ve) points but then IN_AHBL, losing 4.9 points. Spam lists are not reliable, but maybe AHBL is better than SPAMCOP. Might investigate if there's a pattern there | 23:23 |
| peterleinchen | and, if he deleted his account, does his user@g.m.o get removed | 23:24 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen: or are you about the project page | 23:24 |
| * reinob is sorry I was looking at the keyboard | 23:24 | |
| peterleinchen | chem|st, about the projectpage which he wanted toget removed, afair | 23:25 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen: the accounts are flagged as inactive | 23:25 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen: ask him to send that request to techstaff@ please | 23:25 |
| peterleinchen | that means bouncing of mails take still place? | 23:26 |
| juiceme | peterleinchen, not if account is deleted/inactivated | 23:27 |
| chem|st | should not get mail but 'we' know that there are bugs in the export for eg voting engine so I would not bet on it being completely offline | 23:28 |
| peterleinchen | htheb, do you remember the user that asked for that? | 23:29 |
| chem|st | so I pinged merlin about mail, if anything else make sure you hilight me - and out | 23:29 |
| reinob | peterleinchen: Tapani PÃlli <lemody@gmail.com | 23:30 |
| reinob | P <a with umlaut> lli | 23:30 |
| peterleinchen | reinob, thx. will do so | 23:30 |
| reinob | "Please remove panu project and all my other projects from garage.maemo.org." | 23:31 |
| juiceme | yes, that was the message. | 23:31 |
| peterleinchen | someone also has garage user name? | 23:31 |
| juiceme | hey, we spent so long time discussing the email spam issue, what else should we have tonight? | 23:32 |
| chem|st | considering spam, you just posted a mail address to a google indexed channel - that usually peaks - and realname, and now you are up for the username | 23:32 |
| HtheB | peterleinchen: yes | 23:32 |
| juiceme | indeed that is one way of advertising for spam. | 23:33 |
| peterleinchen | chem|st, absolutely right. sorry for asking. please via pm or mail | 23:33 |
| HtheB | peterleinchen: i pm ed | 23:34 |
| reinob | you're right. sorry. | 23:34 |
| Win7Mac | what else - is it enough to have the CoC in the wiki or should we have it in the terms & conditions also? | 23:37 |
| peterleinchen | I guess a better place would be t&c | 23:38 |
| juiceme | more visibility is not bad | 23:38 |
| Win7Mac | http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/ | 23:38 |
| peterleinchen | but wiki is also nice place (but at least a link should be palced on MO) | 23:38 |
| peterleinchen | wiki as I edited some KDE mentioning yesterday ;) | 23:39 |
| peterleinchen | who can add it to MO? | 23:39 |
| reinob | thanks for editing. I wanted to do that later :) | 23:40 |
| reinob | who can edit Terms of Use? | 23:40 |
| reinob | (sorry I've been away a minute or two. I think the router overheated..) | 23:40 |
| Win7Mac | that's something for techstaff, a link to the wiki should be fine IMHO | 23:40 |
| reinob | OK | 23:41 |
| peterleinchen | win7mac, as long as not EVERYbody can edit that page, right? | 23:41 |
| reinob | do we have any sort of access control in the Wiki? | 23:42 |
| Win7Mac | those pages can be edited by techstaff only afaik | 23:42 |
| juiceme | I have no edit rights there, just tried it :) | 23:42 |
| reinob | My first experience was when posting the CoC | 23:42 |
| peterleinchen | yes, we have. ask sixwheeledbeast or rZr, not me ;) | 23:42 |
| reinob | OK that's for legal/terms_of_use, but if we point to the wiki from there we need to make sure the wiki (that page) is somehow locked | 23:43 |
| Win7Mac | oh. right | 23:43 |
| Win7Mac | volunteers? | 23:43 |
| Win7Mac | wikipages can be locked to author... | 23:44 |
| juiceme | there is some protection for the wiki; you need to be logged on at least to make any modifications (so no random outsiders can modify it) | 23:44 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac thanks | 23:44 |
| reinob | yeah but then peterleinchen can make changes at will :)))) | 23:44 |
| juiceme | heh | 23:45 |
| reinob | if we can lock to author, but author = group (council) NOT ME (I won't live forever :) | 23:45 |
| juiceme | group is better but if not doable, then just someone as that can be changed later. | 23:46 |
| reinob | OK | 23:46 |
| juiceme | anyway, I need to drop off soon | 23:46 |
| reinob | me too | 23:46 |
| reinob | we still have competition and elections/referendums (referenda?) | 23:46 |
| juiceme | so we need to continue on that later | 23:47 |
| reinob | maybe for next week? and/or we discuss per e-mail and wrap up next tuesday | 23:47 |
| juiceme | also to finalize the categories | 23:47 |
| juiceme | and discuss timelines | 23:47 |
| reinob | yes. I admit I'm a bit of without a plan on that topic, but I'll do my best to contribute | 23:47 |
| juiceme | okay, | 23:47 |
| reinob | (i.e. I'll say yes) | 23:48 |
| reinob | :) | 23:48 |
| juiceme | hey, any takers for election handling? | 23:48 |
| Win7Mac | honestly, electiom about swearfilter?! | 23:48 |
| Win7Mac | OMG... | 23:48 |
| juiceme | I will coach, but I'd like someone else too to know how the ropes are being pulled behind the scenes... | 23:48 |
| reinob | we should do like e-mail. end-user filtering :) | 23:48 |
| reinob | I'd be interested, but I'm not sure I have the time | 23:49 |
| juiceme | it does take some time, but the basic operations are fairly easy. | 23:49 |
| reinob | (or a good example for an election). I think swear filter would be cool but a bit of a joke :) | 23:49 |
| Win7Mac | I'm not tech-savvy enough for such tasks, sadly | 23:49 |
| reinob | then I'll do that | 23:49 |
| juiceme | when it gets *not* easy are the special cases :) | 23:49 |
| reinob | I can add that to my CV :) | 23:50 |
| juiceme | and then you need to be handy with php & mysql console :) | 23:50 |
| juiceme | sure, real good cv material :) | 23:50 |
| reinob | SQL is OK-ish. PHP I hate as a language, but will live with it | 23:50 |
| peterleinchen | juiceme, interested too, but ... | 23:50 |
| reinob | I forgot I'm a beamter. Don't need no CV :) | 23:50 |
| HtheB | beamter? | 23:51 |
| juiceme | php is crap but we have to live with it. the whole midgard is full of it | 23:51 |
| reinob | civil servant | 23:51 |
| juiceme | ah, tenure for life :) | 23:51 |
| reinob | well, I cannot really say anything, but things are a-changing.. | 23:51 |
| reinob | drop the really. I cannot say anything | 23:51 |
| juiceme | but indeed, I seriously thought of rewriteing the whole election backend in node.js but then I do also have a life :) | 23:52 |
| reinob | I probably dislike JS more than PHP, so it's OK. | 23:52 |
| juiceme | :) | 23:53 |
| juiceme | okay can do it in C too if you feel better that way :p | 23:53 |
| HtheB | :D | 23:53 |
| reinob | C C C C (read like "Si Si Si Si" in my mother tongue!) | 23:53 |
| juiceme | and I do hate browser-js but node is another beast alltogether... | 23:54 |
| * HtheB is afk for a little while | 23:54 | |
| juiceme | HtheB, nite then, I'll be dropping off quite soon | 23:54 |
| reinob | I know, but it's a hack of language, like PHP, without the hack-ness of Perl and without the elegance of C or Lisp. | 23:55 |
| reinob | gotta leave too | 23:55 |
| peterleinchen | any result on "who can add CoC link to T&C"? | 23:55 |
| Win7Mac | I'll email techstaff | 23:55 |
| reinob | juiceme: I'll contact you in the next days (otherwise ping me) re. election stuff | 23:55 |
| juiceme | you'd be amazed to know what's being done with it currently. but of course the hackkishness aspect is true too | 23:56 |
| peterleinchen | reinob, or put that on mail to techstaff, too | 23:56 |
| reinob | Win7Mac: thanks | 23:56 |
| juiceme | yes | 23:56 |
| juiceme | so, nite all! | 23:56 |
| peterleinchen | win7mac, thx | 23:56 |
| peterleinchen | juiceme, night | 23:56 |
| reinob | peterleinchen: better keep it separate (Win7Mac already said he'll do it) | 23:56 |
| reinob | good night all | 23:56 |
| Win7Mac | seperate what? | 23:57 |
| reinob | the e-mail to techstaffd re. adding link to T&C | 23:57 |
| peterleinchen | win7mac, you about the CoC link | 23:57 |
| peterleinchen | reinob, about the e-mail spam | 23:58 |
| Win7Mac | yes, I'll email techstaff, what else? | 23:58 |
| Win7Mac | ah, ok | 23:58 |
| Win7Mac | yes, seperately please ;) | 23:58 |
| reinob | good. then good night | 23:59 |
| Win7Mac | gnite everyone | 23:59 |
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