| chem|st | Woody14619: how many tokens get sent out for a vote? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| RzR | peterleinchen_, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_vote | 00:00 |
| Woody14619 | rzr: You can already "blank vote" by voting but not selecting anyone. | 00:00 |
| juiceme | Woody, that might well be so. or it at least looks a lot like that, however I do not think it is malicious intent, probably? | 00:00 |
| peterleinchen_ | okay, got it | 00:01 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st: About 5800, last cycle I was in. | 00:01 |
| RzR | so then the community is gone | 00:01 |
| RzR | or dont care about beeing represented | 00:01 |
| chem|st | juiceme: you need intent? how about a commercial interest in maemo.org? | 00:01 |
| RzR | but few did care and we should honorate them ;) | 00:01 |
| Win7Mac | those are quite constant for at least 2 years or so, right? | 00:01 |
| nieldk | RzR, there are too many users that signed up just for 'support'. They dont care about any council, nor board. | 00:01 |
| Woody14619 | juiceme: You've not seen it as close. Sorry, but when someone wants control of things, and runs for a seat on a controlling body, but refuses to accept, run for, or be appointed to a legally responsible body... That says it all for me. | 00:02 |
| chem|st | nieldk: garage is not a support platform, tmo has alot more users... | 00:02 |
| juiceme | I am fairly sure only 10% of the mails got any significant notice in the receiving end, unfortunately. The voting totals tell the real tale; how many bothered to cast the vote | 00:02 |
| Woody14619 | Win7Mac: Up or down ~100 the past 2 years, yes. | 00:02 |
| RzR | well one problem at the time | 00:03 |
| RzR | the council is here dont bury it too soon | 00:03 |
| nieldk | but garage has a lot of members, correct me if I am wrong, that are not even present any more | 00:03 |
| juiceme | Woody14619 your argumentation is convincing. I admit I have not seen it all, as I have only been around few years | 00:04 |
| Woody14619 | neildk: Until the transision, garage and m.o were in sync. tmo is a separate entity, and is rather un-linked from the process. (Why you need to manually link accounts, but not your garage/wiki/etc accounts) | 00:04 |
| Woody14619 | juiceme: I also have no dog in this race. | 00:04 |
| juiceme | true | 00:05 |
| nieldk | Woody and chemist, ok, I stand corrected on that | 00:05 |
| RzR | we're talking for one hour now ... can we prioritize things to be sorted for this meeting ? | 00:05 |
| Woody14619 | In fact, I logged in mainly to offer my old CoCo3 to the enthusiest group here on freenode. | 00:05 |
| juiceme | please do. | 00:05 |
| juiceme | I need to log off soon | 00:05 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen_: ask questions please | 00:05 |
| Woody14619 | Still thinking it's Monday here, due to the holiday. ;) | 00:05 |
| juiceme | good for you :) | 00:06 |
| RzR | nieldk, as coucil member we'd like you to reconsider your choice and if we have to deal w/ doc we'll do | 00:06 |
| RzR | -we+I | 00:06 |
| juiceme | I agree with RzR | 00:06 |
| peterleinchen_ | nieldk, we/I | 00:07 |
| juiceme | that is a vote then, 3 councillors present agree | 00:07 |
| nieldk | Since we seem to agree on the situation. So, I will stay, let us move on and save this mess together | 00:07 |
| chem|st | nieldk: thank you! | 00:07 |
| peterleinchen_ | nieldk, yay! | 00:07 |
| RzR | nice | 00:07 |
| juiceme | thanks, I am happy | 00:08 |
| RzR | yea | 00:08 |
| RzR | so just to move on | 00:08 |
| RzR | what do you think about setting up some kind of code of conduct | 00:08 |
| Win7Mac | amazing, you guys rock | 00:08 |
| nieldk | next topic (I will also log off soon, going to Norway for a couple of days in hmm 6 hours from now) | 00:08 |
| RzR | for tmo and other | 00:08 |
| nieldk | Rzr | 00:08 |
| chem|st | nieldk: I said, I need to know that we pull it together - now you needed to hear it too :) | 00:08 |
| nieldk | Rzr good idea | 00:08 |
| RzR | like this vs-jolla thread | 00:09 |
| RzR | this is going too far | 00:09 |
| peterleinchen_ | chem|st, I get a better picture with this meeting | 00:09 |
| juiceme | nieldk, I can recommend around Tromså | 00:09 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen_: good | 00:09 |
| juiceme | if youre going on haliday, that is :) | 00:09 |
| RzR | I thing we can reuse those pattern | 00:10 |
| RzR | https://www.debian.org/vote/2014/vote_002#outcome | 00:10 |
| RzR | http://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/ | 00:10 |
| RzR | https://github.com/Bantik/contributor_covenant | 00:10 |
| RzR | https://discourse.mozilla-community.org/guidelines | 00:10 |
| nieldk | Juiceme: sadly no, work in Oslo | 00:10 |
| RzR | and note write our own | 00:10 |
| RzR | it will take forever | 00:10 |
| peterleinchen_ | But I would also like to get Doc,s view on this... | 00:10 |
| RzR | I think I mentionned about it once | 00:10 |
| chem|st | RzR: sure not, I'd go combining mozilla and kde - iirc | 00:11 |
| RzR | he said like we're not a floss project IICR | 00:11 |
| RzR | but I am unsure now | 00:11 |
| juiceme | peterleinchen_, I am sure Doc will also comment on this later, when ha reads the logs | 00:11 |
| RzR | we'll add him in loop | 00:11 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen_: sure do | 00:11 |
| peterleinchen_ | juiceme, yep | 00:11 |
| RzR | since it should be adopted by all | 00:11 |
| nieldk | he will, be sure. And we need to listen to him | 00:11 |
| RzR | may we also ask community to vote on this using poll | 00:12 |
| juiceme | yes, as best is we can reach the position of unity | 00:12 |
| RzR | last time I tried it just failed :P | 00:12 |
| peterleinchen_ | no poll please | 00:12 |
| Win7Mac | RzR, no tmo-polls please ;) | 00:12 |
| juiceme | RzR, before launching it, please consult council :=) | 00:12 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen_: if you have problems with the meeting minutes formatting, please ask juiceme for guidance or find an online wysiwyg html editor | 00:12 |
| nieldk | I agree, no polls | 00:12 |
| RzR | let's make a poll to ask for poll or not ;) | 00:12 |
| nieldk | :P | 00:13 |
| peterleinchen_ | sure ;) | 00:13 |
| juiceme | RzR, that is Dave999 way :) | 00:13 |
| peterleinchen_ | juiceme, :D | 00:13 |
| Win7Mac | this is your decision | 00:13 |
| chem|st | RzR: I should consider to change your account settings^^ | 00:14 |
| RzR | btw i never managed to set it as developer member | 00:14 |
| RzR | so do we pick a random COC ? | 00:15 |
| nieldk | what is a developer anyways ;) | 00:15 |
| chem|st | if you guys have any questions I am idle 24/7, query me and I come back to you as soon as I read your question - I have 2 symposia to prepare the next 3 weeks (hosting, not attending) so be patient | 00:15 |
| RzR | unsure all members will like self-censorship | 00:16 |
| Win7Mac | RzR, be faithfull | 00:16 |
| chem|st | RzR: I lifted the restriction to active members, all but newcomers can post and prefix | 00:16 |
| nieldk | RzR there is no way all members will always be happy with decisions made. Hopefully we target the most | 00:16 |
| juiceme | that is true. the fallacy of democracy but we have to live with it | 00:17 |
| chem|st | so, I have a second plate now and a movie CU | 00:17 |
| nieldk | Have to leave you now guys. But wanted you to know that I was open, and not closed source | 00:17 |
| peterleinchen_ | okay short conclusion: council does not operate maemo.org but eV does. council is concentrator of community will. council cannot force board to act illegally. but what about all other tasks? | 00:18 |
| RzR | may we just restrict at start to members with "special" roles , such as us etc | 00:18 |
| peterleinchen_ | nieldk, big THANK YOU | 00:18 |
| nieldk | agree | 00:18 |
| peterleinchen_ | nieldk, agree on what? | 00:18 |
| juiceme | thanks everybody! | 00:18 |
| Win7Mac | nearly any task may be delegated to council | 00:19 |
| nieldk | I agreed with Peters short conclusion | 00:19 |
| RzR | peterleinchen_, sounds good | 00:19 |
| Win7Mac | yes +1 on that | 00:19 |
| RzR | may I suggest to post this somewhere | 00:19 |
| RzR | but ask doc to review | 00:19 |
| RzR | to make sure there is no hidden trap we missed ;) | 00:19 |
| peterleinchen_ | let him read/comment first here | 00:20 |
| nieldk | I think this should be posted | 00:20 |
| Woody14619 | peterleinchen_: Problem is, some people don't realize what it legal and what is not. (Or don't care...) | 00:20 |
| nieldk | and I agree, Let Doc comment before posting | 00:20 |
| RzR | just ask him and introduce the COC we plan to setup | 00:20 |
| juiceme | for that reason, I had the habit of posting MoM-draft for council to comment before publishing it | 00:20 |
| Win7Mac | RzR, calm down, doc will read and comment either way | 00:21 |
| RzR | to make the current transition more constructive | 00:21 |
| juiceme | RzR, acronym COC = ? | 00:21 |
| peterleinchen_ | he will claim council is the only force... | 00:21 |
| Woody14619 | peterleinchen_: And due to laws varying country to country, what is legal one place may not be legal to another. | 00:21 |
| RzR | corrosion of conformity | 00:21 |
| RzR | err | 00:21 |
| RzR | code of conduct | 00:21 |
| juiceme | oo := | 00:21 |
| juiceme | yes | 00:21 |
| Win7Mac | ;) | 00:21 |
| juiceme | the latter is okay with me :) | 00:21 |
| nieldk | Woody, this is one reason for moving to an eV. Since Europe more or less have same regulations | 00:22 |
| chem|st | RzR: it is nothing you setup, COC is what is there, council needs to accept this - just like with nokia or hifo or any other entity owning the place | 00:22 |
| RzR | ? | 00:23 |
| chem|st | RzR: COC is chain of command | 00:23 |
| chem|st | sry misread yours | 00:23 |
| RzR | ok | 00:23 |
| peterleinchen_ | one thing I still not get is who will be first man/force: council or eV | 00:23 |
| peterleinchen_ | I would see them side by side | 00:23 |
| RzR | define first ? | 00:23 |
| chem|st | code of conduct is a +1, I thought we set something up already but it is all forgotten | 00:23 |
| Win7Mac | peterleinchen_, council is part of the eV | 00:24 |
| Win7Mac | it is a body of it | 00:24 |
| RzR | well unsure doc will approve that later statement | 00:24 |
| peterleinchen_ | rzr, right | 00:24 |
| Win7Mac | 3 bodies: board, council, general meeting | 00:24 |
| Win7Mac | it is not required that doc approves anything | 00:25 |
| chem|st | peterleinchen_: the MCeV is an entity and cahin of command is "General Meeting>Board>Council" | 00:25 |
| RzR | let me recap that there are 10% of chances i'll be able to attend next sept mettings . | 00:25 |
| nieldk | night guys. ZzzzZZZzz see you during the week I am sure | 00:25 |
| Win7Mac | just because he behaves like h eowns the place it doesn't mean he does | 00:25 |
| RzR | byebye nieldk | 00:26 |
| RzR | before you leave | 00:26 |
| nieldk | Win7Mac that is the core issue | 00:26 |
| peterleinchen_ | nildk, bye | 00:26 |
| RzR | if something get that wrong | 00:26 |
| RzR | contact us asap :) | 00:26 |
| juiceme | RzR +1 | 00:26 |
| nieldk | :) | 00:26 |
| nieldk | will do | 00:26 |
| RzR | :) | 00:26 |
| juiceme | talking is the way to sort it all out! | 00:26 |
| peterleinchen_ | BEFORE going wild ;) | 00:26 |
| juiceme | bye all | 00:26 |
| juiceme | I need to hit the sack too | 00:27 |
| RzR | i am leaving too | 00:27 |
| nieldk | bye for now | 00:27 |
| juiceme | l8er... | 00:27 |
| chem|st | RzR: just because he does not believe in gravity does not make him sucked into space! | 00:27 |
| RzR | ;) | 00:27 |
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| peterleinchen_ | woody14619, thanks for joining | 00:28 |
| RzR | peterleinchen_, may I mention that community said that we should make sure to send report of meetings ;) | 00:30 |
| peterleinchen_ | rzr, yes :( ;) | 00:30 |
| RzR | let me put some keywords on wiki ;-) | 00:31 |
| Win7Mac | thanks EVERYBODY and have a good rest o/ | 00:31 |
| peterleinchen_ | go ahead, this time it is only one (two) topic | 00:31 |
| peterleinchen_ | but hard ones | 00:32 |
| peterleinchen_ | win7mac, thanks. good night | 00:32 |
| peterleinchen_ | afk | 00:32 |
| Woody14619 | np, as noted it was more of an accident I landed here when I did. :) | 00:33 |
| Woody14619 | I'm off... good night all. | 00:33 |
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| Win7Mac | and special thanks go out to Woody14619... | 00:34 |
| RzR | yea thx | 00:35 |
| peterleinchen_ | nite all | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I - after reading first maybe 50 lines of this ice meeting - can only utter my disbelief of the obvious ignorance many of comments show regarding the MAEMO COUNCIL AND ELECTION RULES | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Rules are no beauty contest | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are there for a reason. Me defending them is not because I want to sabotage or I would like bickering and the flames this gets me from ignorant people. I defend them because they were the basis for my election into council | 00:47 |
| RzR | DocScrutinizer05, please dont ruin it now :) we're trying to find relief from the apocalypse ... | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I would expect EVERY council member to feel all alike. We cannot disregard and violate rules hust because win7mac thinks it's convenient | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I'm thoroughly fed up with this flamewar against me, with win7mac's constant insulting and spreading lies all day long, just to throw dirt at me. Know what? I'm afk till next week | 00:50 |
| RzR | no one should insult anyone | 00:50 |
| RzR | if we adopt some social rules | 00:51 |
| RzR | and this mean that the one who dont respect them will be somehow punished | 00:51 |
| RzR | this may sound like kindergarten | 00:51 |
| RzR | but this is the only option i've found to work together on future of maemo | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can't have rules against spreading fud and lies | 00:52 |
| RzR | read the above links i pasted | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, YOU read http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1437995&postcount=43 and then tell me if I'm right or wrong. When wrong, then why | 00:53 |
| RzR | I mentionned about referendum | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I really could puke when I hear people want to solve this issue by "voting me out of council". As if you or any other councilor could act any different, without getting corrupted | 00:55 |
| RzR | you're wrong in the style at least | 00:56 |
| RzR | daydreams is a bit pejorative | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my style adapts to win7mac's | 00:56 |
| RzR | funny i am sure he would say the same | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who szarted calling me names almost a year ago, when I told him i'm not his servant | 00:56 |
| RzR | well sorry DocScrutinizer05 but you're in the meeting log | 00:57 |
| RzR | this is not the place to for | 00:57 |
| RzR | and actually I really dont care about who is to blame | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, this is not the place anymore for people with a sane understanding of how to follow rules faithfully. | 00:58 |
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| RzR | i just want to make the situation less stressed | 00:58 |
| RzR | neil is back and I am sure he expect some changes to come | 00:58 |
| RzR | I wish I could help as mediator more but I will be offline on sept | 00:59 |
| RzR | thanks anyway for staying among us | 00:59 |
| RzR | you're input count a lot to me at least | 01:00 |
| RzR | your | 01:00 |
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