IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Wednesday, 2014-09-03

chem|stWoody14619: how many tokens get sent out for a vote?00:00
RzRpeterleinchen_, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_vote00:00
Woody14619rzr: You can already "blank vote" by voting but not selecting anyone.00:00
juicemeWoody, that might well be so. or it at least looks a lot like that, however I do not think it is malicious intent, probably?00:00
peterleinchen_okay, got it00:01
Woody14619chem|st: About 5800, last cycle I was in.00:01
RzRso then the community is gone00:01
RzRor dont care about beeing represented00:01
chem|stjuiceme: you need intent? how about a commercial interest in maemo.org?00:01
RzRbut few did care and we should honorate them ;)00:01
Win7Macthose are quite constant for at least 2 years or so, right?00:01
nieldkRzR, there are too many users that signed up just for 'support'. They dont care about any council, nor board.00:01
Woody14619juiceme: You've not seen it as close.  Sorry, but when someone wants control of things, and runs for a seat on a controlling body, but refuses to accept, run for, or be appointed to a legally responsible body... That says it all for me.00:02
chem|stnieldk: garage is not a support platform, tmo has alot more users...00:02
juicemeI am fairly sure only 10% of the mails got any significant notice in the receiving end, unfortunately. The voting totals tell the real tale; how many bothered to cast the vote00:02
Woody14619Win7Mac: Up or down ~100 the past 2 years, yes.00:02
RzRwell one problem at the time00:03
RzRthe council is here dont bury it too soon00:03
nieldkbut garage has a lot of members, correct me if I am wrong, that are not even present any more00:03
juicemeWoody14619 your argumentation is convincing. I admit I have not seen it all, as I have only been around few years00:04
Woody14619neildk: Until the transision, garage and m.o were in sync.  tmo is a separate entity, and is rather un-linked from the process.  (Why you need to manually link accounts, but not your garage/wiki/etc accounts)00:04
Woody14619juiceme: I also have no dog in this race.00:04
juicemetrue00:05
nieldkWoody and chemist, ok, I stand corrected on that00:05
RzRwe're talking for one hour now ... can we prioritize things to be sorted for this meeting ?00:05
Woody14619In fact, I logged in mainly to offer my old CoCo3 to the enthusiest group here on freenode.00:05
juicemeplease do.00:05
juicemeI need to log off soon00:05
chem|stpeterleinchen_: ask questions please00:05
Woody14619Still thinking it's Monday here, due to the holiday. ;)00:05
juicemegood for you :)00:06
RzRnieldk, as coucil member we'd like you to reconsider your choice and if we have to deal w/ doc we'll do00:06
RzR-we+I00:06
juicemeI agree with RzR00:06
peterleinchen_nieldk, we/I00:07
juicemethat is a vote then, 3 councillors present agree00:07
nieldkSince we seem to agree on the situation. So, I will stay, let us move on and save this mess together00:07
chem|stnieldk: thank you!00:07
peterleinchen_nieldk, yay!00:07
RzRnice00:07
juicemethanks, I am happy00:08
RzRyea00:08
RzRso just to move on00:08
RzRwhat do you think about setting up some kind of code of conduct00:08
Win7Macamazing, you guys rock00:08
nieldknext topic (I will also log off soon, going to Norway for a couple of days in hmm 6 hours from now)00:08
RzRfor tmo and other00:08
nieldkRzr00:08
chem|stnieldk: I said, I need to know that we pull it together - now you needed to hear it too :)00:08
nieldkRzr good idea00:08
RzRlike this vs-jolla thread00:09
RzRthis is going too far00:09
peterleinchen_chem|st, I get a better picture with this meeting00:09
juicemenieldk, I can recommend around Tromså00:09
chem|stpeterleinchen_: good00:09
juicemeif youre going on haliday, that is :)00:09
RzRI thing we can reuse those pattern00:10
RzR    https://www.debian.org/vote/2014/vote_002#outcome00:10
RzR    http://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/00:10
RzR    https://github.com/Bantik/contributor_covenant00:10
RzR    https://discourse.mozilla-community.org/guidelines00:10
nieldkJuiceme: sadly no, work in Oslo00:10
RzRand note write our own00:10
RzRit will take forever00:10
peterleinchen_But I would also like to get Doc,s view on this...00:10
RzRI think I mentionned about it once00:10
chem|stRzR: sure not, I'd go combining mozilla and kde - iirc00:11
RzRhe said like we're not a floss project IICR00:11
RzRbut I am unsure now00:11
juicemepeterleinchen_, I am sure Doc will also comment on this later, when ha reads the logs00:11
RzRwe'll add him in loop00:11
chem|stpeterleinchen_: sure do00:11
peterleinchen_juiceme, yep00:11
RzRsince it should be adopted by all00:11
nieldkhe will, be sure. And we need to listen to him00:11
RzRmay we also ask community to vote on this using poll00:12
juicemeyes, as best is we can reach the position of unity00:12
RzRlast time I tried it just failed :P00:12
peterleinchen_no poll please00:12
Win7MacRzR, no tmo-polls please ;)00:12
juicemeRzR, before launching it, please consult council :=)00:12
chem|stpeterleinchen_: if you have problems with the meeting minutes formatting, please ask juiceme for guidance or find an online wysiwyg html editor00:12
nieldkI agree, no polls00:12
RzRlet's make a poll to ask for poll or not ;)00:12
nieldk:P00:13
peterleinchen_sure ;)00:13
juicemeRzR, that is Dave999 way :)00:13
peterleinchen_juiceme, :D00:13
Win7Macthis is your decision00:13
chem|stRzR: I should consider to change your account settings^^00:14
RzRbtw i never managed to set it as developer member00:14
RzRso do we pick a random COC ?00:15
nieldkwhat is a developer anyways ;)00:15
chem|stif you guys have any questions I am idle 24/7, query me and I come back to you as soon as I read your question - I have 2 symposia to prepare the next 3 weeks (hosting, not attending) so be patient00:15
RzRunsure all members will like self-censorship00:16
Win7MacRzR, be faithfull00:16
chem|stRzR: I lifted the restriction to active members, all but newcomers can post and prefix00:16
nieldkRzR there is no way all members will always be happy with decisions made. Hopefully we target the most00:16
juicemethat is true. the fallacy of democracy but we have to live with it00:17
chem|stso, I have a second plate now and a movie CU00:17
nieldkHave to leave you now guys. But wanted you to know that I was open, and not closed source00:17
peterleinchen_okay short conclusion: council does not operate maemo.org but eV does. council is concentrator of community will. council cannot force board to act illegally. but what about all other tasks?00:18
RzRmay we just restrict at start to members with "special" roles , such as us etc00:18
peterleinchen_nieldk, big THANK YOU00:18
nieldkagree00:18
peterleinchen_nieldk, agree on what?00:18
juicemethanks everybody!00:18
Win7Macnearly any task may be delegated to council00:19
nieldkI agreed with Peters short conclusion00:19
RzRpeterleinchen_, sounds good00:19
Win7Macyes +1 on that00:19
RzRmay I suggest to post this somewhere00:19
RzRbut ask doc to review00:19
RzRto make sure there is no hidden trap we missed ;)00:19
peterleinchen_let him read/comment first here00:20
nieldkI think this should be posted00:20
Woody14619peterleinchen_: Problem is, some people don't realize what it legal and what is not. (Or don't care...)00:20
nieldkand I agree, Let Doc comment before posting00:20
RzRjust ask him and introduce the COC we plan to setup00:20
juicemefor that reason, I had the habit of posting MoM-draft for council to comment before publishing it00:20
Win7MacRzR, calm down, doc will read and comment either way00:21
RzRto make the current transition more constructive00:21
juicemeRzR, acronym COC = ?00:21
peterleinchen_he will claim council is the only force...00:21
Woody14619peterleinchen_: And due to laws varying country to country, what is legal one place may not be legal to another.00:21
RzRcorrosion of conformity00:21
RzRerr00:21
RzRcode of conduct00:21
juicemeoo :=00:21
juicemeyes00:21
Win7Mac;)00:21
juicemethe latter is okay with me :)00:21
nieldkWoody, this is one reason for moving to an eV. Since Europe more or less have same regulations00:22
chem|stRzR: it is nothing you setup, COC is what is there, council needs to accept this - just like with nokia or hifo or any other entity owning the place00:22
RzR?00:23
chem|stRzR: COC is chain of command00:23
chem|stsry misread yours00:23
RzRok00:23
peterleinchen_one thing I still not get is who will be first man/force: council or eV00:23
peterleinchen_I would see them side by side00:23
RzRdefine first ?00:23
chem|stcode of conduct is a +1, I thought we set something up already but it is all forgotten00:23
Win7Macpeterleinchen_, council is part of the eV00:24
Win7Macit is a body of it00:24
RzRwell unsure doc will approve that later statement00:24
peterleinchen_rzr, right00:24
Win7Mac3 bodies: board, council, general meeting00:24
Win7Macit is not required that doc approves anything00:25
chem|stpeterleinchen_: the MCeV is an entity and cahin of command is "General Meeting>Board>Council"00:25
RzRlet me recap that there are 10% of chances i'll be able to attend next sept mettings .00:25
nieldknight guys. ZzzzZZZzz see you during the week I am sure00:25
Win7Macjust because he behaves like h eowns the place it doesn't mean he does00:25
RzRbyebye nieldk00:26
RzRbefore you leave00:26
nieldkWin7Mac that is the core issue00:26
peterleinchen_nildk, bye00:26
RzRif something get that wrong00:26
RzRcontact us asap :)00:26
juicemeRzR +100:26
nieldk:)00:26
nieldkwill do00:26
RzR:)00:26
juicemetalking is the way to sort it all out!00:26
peterleinchen_BEFORE going wild ;)00:26
juicemebye all00:26
juicemeI need to hit the sack too00:27
RzRi am leaving too00:27
nieldkbye for now00:27
juicemel8er...00:27
chem|stRzR: just because he does not believe in gravity does not make him sucked into space!00:27
RzR;)00:27
*** nieldk has quit IRC00:27
peterleinchen_woody14619, thanks for joining00:28
RzRpeterleinchen_, may I mention that community said that we should make sure to send report of meetings ;)00:30
peterleinchen_rzr, yes :( ;)00:30
RzRlet me put some keywords on wiki ;-)00:31
Win7Macthanks EVERYBODY and have a good rest o/00:31
peterleinchen_go ahead, this time it is only one (two) topic00:31
peterleinchen_but hard ones00:32
peterleinchen_win7mac, thanks. good night00:32
peterleinchen_afk00:32
Woody14619np, as noted it was more of an accident I landed here when I did. :)00:33
Woody14619I'm off... good night all.00:33
*** Woody14619 has quit IRC00:34
Win7Macand special thanks go out to Woody14619...00:34
RzRyea thx00:35
peterleinchen_nite all00:38
*** peterleinchen_ has quit IRC00:38
*** Win7Mac has quit IRC00:38
DocScrutinizer05I - after reading first maybe 50 lines of this ice meeting - can only utter my disbelief of the obvious ignorance many of comments show regarding the MAEMO COUNCIL AND ELECTION RULES00:46
DocScrutinizer05Rules are no beauty contest00:46
DocScrutinizer05they are there for a reason. Me defending them is not because I want to sabotage or I would like bickering and the flames this gets me from ignorant people. I defend them because they were the basis for my election into council00:47
RzRDocScrutinizer05, please dont ruin it now :) we're trying to find relief from the apocalypse ...00:48
DocScrutinizer05and I would expect EVERY council member to feel all alike. We cannot disregard and violate rules hust because win7mac thinks it's convenient00:48
DocScrutinizer05anyway I'm thoroughly fed up with this flamewar against me, with win7mac's constant insulting and spreading lies all day long, just to throw dirt at me. Know what? I'm afk till next week00:50
RzRno one should insult anyone00:50
RzRif we adopt some social rules00:51
RzRand this mean that the one who dont respect them will be somehow punished00:51
RzRthis may sound like kindergarten00:51
RzRbut this is the only option i've found to work together on future of maemo00:52
DocScrutinizer05you can't have rules against spreading fud and lies00:52
RzRread the above links i pasted00:52
DocScrutinizer05no, YOU read http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1437995&postcount=43 and then tell me if I'm right or wrong. When wrong, then why00:53
RzRI mentionned about referendum00:54
DocScrutinizer05I really could puke when I hear people want to solve this issue by "voting me out of council". As if you or any other councilor could act any different, without getting corrupted00:55
RzRyou're wrong in the style at least00:56
RzRdaydreams is a bit pejorative00:56
DocScrutinizer05my style adapts to win7mac's00:56
RzRfunny i am sure he would say the same00:56
DocScrutinizer05who szarted calling me names almost a year ago, when I told him i'm not his servant00:56
RzRwell sorry DocScrutinizer05 but you're in the meeting log00:57
RzRthis is not the place to for00:57
RzRand actually I really dont care about who is to blame00:57
DocScrutinizer05yeah, this is not the place anymore for people with a sane understanding of how to follow rules faithfully.00:58
*** DocScrutinizer05 has left #maemo-meeting00:58
RzRi just want to make the situation less stressed00:58
RzRneil is back and I am sure he expect some changes to come00:58
RzRI wish I could help as mediator more but I will be offline on sept00:59
RzRthanks anyway for staying among us00:59
RzRyou're input count a lot to me at least01:00
RzRyour01:00
*** kolp has quit IRC02:29
*** kolp has joined #maemo-meeting11:24
*** RzR is now known as rZr14:00
*** gregoa has quit IRC14:03
*** gregoa has joined #maemo-meeting14:03
*** chem|st_ has joined #maemo-meeting19:04
*** sixwheeledbeast1 has joined #maemo-meeting19:06
*** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC19:08
*** chem|st has quit IRC19:08
*** dos1 has quit IRC19:08
*** freemangordon has quit IRC19:08
*** dos1 has joined #maemo-meeting19:09
*** chem|st_ is now known as chem|st19:12
*** sixwheeledbeast1 has quit IRC19:51
*** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo-meeting19:52
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo-meeting20:47

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!