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| chem|st | Woody14619: 8th... | 00:24 |
|---|---|---|
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| chem|st | 7 full days gap | 00:24 |
| Woody14619 | Right, it's effectively 8th, being that it starts a second before 0:00 on the 8th. | 00:24 |
| chem|st | ok | 00:25 |
| chem|st | all good then, did you check the names? juiceme I pulled from maemo.org | 00:26 |
| chem|st | he did not respond yet | 00:26 |
| Woody14619 | I got an e-mail on TMO from him indicating the same name, so looks like we're all good on that front. | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya folks | 00:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 points at own awy-message | 00:27 | |
| chem|st | Woody14619: good to go then, the others are familiar | 00:28 |
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| chem|st | seems we are already of the boat... looking at #jollamobile's topic - Community offerings: http://forum.jollausers.com , http://elinux.org/Jolla | 21:53 |
| Win7Mac | Hey folks, I changed the mission statement on http://hildonfoundation.org/ | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: great | 21:57 |
| Win7Mac | old version (community oversight...) is still in the bylaws. To change that too, we need to agree on a meeting I guess | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: then forget about them, eh? | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: iirc changing bylaws is terribly hard | 21:57 |
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| Win7Mac | "The Bylaws of the Foundation may only be | 21:59 |
| Win7Mac | changed, altered, suspended or repealed with three fourths (3/4) majority of the Board and two thirds | 21:59 |
| Win7Mac | (2/3) majority of electorate members." | 21:59 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: two words: signed emails | 21:59 |
| chem|st | the neat thing we agreed on in a recorded meeting | 22:00 |
| Win7Mac | didn't see my mail? | 22:00 |
| chem|st | or did I misunderstand | 22:00 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: you are calling for meetings but we agreed on signed emails are ok for public votes | 22:01 |
| Win7Mac | ah, right, almost forgot | 22:01 |
| chem|st | don't know if it is the second or even third time you are asking for a meeting now^^ | 22:02 |
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| chem|st | just keep in mind that it is very hard and barely needed | 22:02 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: all community efforts I have seen so far were so unprofessional I'd rather eat old fish | 22:03 |
| chem|st | the forums look tidy for now... let 10k people hit it and we will see - having 6k active users and like 1000 posts a day hit me pretty hard at least | 22:04 |
| chem|st | cleaning a thread with 30+ pages took me some time last year | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: yes - but I miss the context | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | did I suggest community effort? | 22:07 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st, ok, will draft a mail to change mission statement in bylaws. Anything else we want to change there? | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll need a referendum for that | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a refrendum with a 2/3 majority afaik | 22:08 |
| Win7Mac | what now, signed mails or a referendum? | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read your own post | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>**and** two thirds (2/3) majority of electorate members.<< | 22:09 |
| Win7Mac | right, electorate members == community... oh my... | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is a pretty ambiguous phrasing, which Rob probably had interpreted as "2/3 of 86k garage users" | 22:09 |
| Win7Mac | ok, forget about it | 22:10 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: we need 3/4th of board to have a referendum which is getting signed mails by the board on a proposal and shoot it as a referendum to the community for voting | 22:10 |
| chem|st | right? | 22:10 |
| Win7Mac | or we change exactly that phrase by referendum so we are free to make change easier | 22:11 |
| chem|st | that maybe to... a ballot majority (is that phrase right?) | 22:11 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: what I mean is all attempts by non Jolla groups creating Jolla centered websites or starting facebook groups or alike are rather poor compared to maemo.org so far - give it a month and look again if it is still poor and all discussion is at tmo anyways they will come and ask | 22:14 |
| chem|st | if we want to become jolla's community eagerly I have a pretty good idea for that | 22:14 |
| Win7Mac | tell us, I think we should try | 22:15 |
| chem|st | 2 contests - video contest on youtube and app contest - each winner gets a free jolla as soon as available | 22:16 |
| Win7Mac | ...gets a free jolla... sponsored by? | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: right, I guess | 22:16 |
| chem|st | HiFo or an honourable donor | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: how about "a referendum by electorate, with 2/3 majority" | 22:17 |
| Win7Mac | the HiFo donations we collected so far were for our infra | 22:18 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: that is in terms still 2/3 of the electorate | 22:18 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: give me some time and I buy two for fsck sake | 22:19 |
| chem|st | I was thinking about giving thomas swindell one if he ports Columbus | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: 2/3 of the *voting* electorate | 22:19 |
| chem|st | 1/2 of the ballot == ballot majority | 22:20 |
| chem|st | that is why I asked if the phrase is right | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but this defines 2/3 majority, for a reason | 22:21 |
| Win7Mac | at least we'd need a majority within board to take donations for that purpose IMHO | 22:21 |
| chem|st | well yeah make it 2/3 of the ballot | 22:21 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: majority in council as well | 22:21 |
| Win7Mac | ok, no problem | 22:22 |
| Win7Mac | but it's 2/3 of the valid votes, not the whole ballot | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 22:22 |
| Win7Mac | right? | 22:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | a referendum done by electorate that needs 2/3 majority | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the electorate is defined in similar way to that of council7board elections | 22:23 |
| Win7Mac | right | 22:24 |
| chem|st | you cannot dismiss invalid votes from a ballot to reduce the ballot size to get your 2/3rds | 22:24 |
| chem|st | can you? | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errwut? | 22:24 |
| chem|st | sounds strange | 22:24 |
| chem|st | ballot is the record of all votes with invalids afaik | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see the issue. What's unclear in a referendum that needs 2/3 majority to pass? | 22:25 |
| chem|st | sure, fine with that | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2/3 of all valid votes have to be YUP | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the elctrorate for such referendum is identical to the usual electorate for any other vote or referendum | 22:26 |
| Win7Mac | agreed | 22:27 |
| Win7Mac | and chem|st, I really hope you're not angry about my last post in the council candidates thread?! | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mor generally: rules for a referendum apply | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those are in place since beginning | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only difference: 2/3 | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | instead of simple majority | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw I think actually not only 3/4 of board but also of HFC should be necessary | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all the bylaws apply and have impact to HFC (and now MCC) as well | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but obviously that#s not what's written in the bylaws | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might need a change | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while we are at changing/fixing bylaws | 22:33 |
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| chem|st | Win7Mac: yeah nice post... asking for a shitstorm and hoping I am not angry.... | 22:34 |
| Win7Mac | i really do hope, but it HAD to be said, I'm afraid | 22:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | similar concerns been raised against me. Take it easy | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I think the concerns themselves are valid, we shouldn't do too much position-aggregation | 22:36 |
| chem|st | nevermind... 90% of the meetings I was AWOL were not council topic and friday meetings in mandatory with nothing to talk about but techstaff things... I was there once or twice just watching btw | 22:37 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: +1 on the aggregation | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council chair is traditionally meant to moderate council meetings | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not to "watch" | 22:38 |
| chem|st | I tried to get Jolla/Sailfish stuff talked once or twice and got pulled off my chair for it... | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, jolla/sailfish actually is hardly a topic for council meetings, as is techstaff talk | 22:38 |
| Win7Mac | your efforts regarding integrating Jolla are very well acknowledged! | 22:39 |
| Win7Mac | at leasst from my side | 22:39 |
| chem|st | yeah I know, I think it was twice I asked for topics and got nothing council relevant... I understand that when most of the guys in meeting channel are techstaff that meeting times are a good point to have all around but I felt abused some times | 22:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for that, you should holler | 22:40 |
| Win7Mac | sorry, abused? | 22:40 |
| chem|st | I left several times as the actual council meeting time was hijacked for techstaff issues | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're chair | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | up to you | 22:40 |
| chem|st | what should I do... stop you from discussing important matters... that would be stupid | 22:40 |
| chem|st | seriously | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you want a particular agenda on council meeting, publish it upfront and enforce it | 22:41 |
| chem|st | I agree that I missed the election timeframe and gladly qwazix jumped in, but as soon as I was aware I did my job, didn't I? | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from my side, a no-issue | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm bussy | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | need to hunt food | 22:42 |
| chem|st | circumstances prevented me to post anymore on sunday apologies for a broke down car... | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first time this week | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl | 22:43 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: I'm explaining to you... as doc already knew | 22:43 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st, no accusations, I know you're a good guy and doing your best | 22:43 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: and without me it was 4 and no election right? looking at this therm you would actually want the top 3 of your list voted in... | 22:44 |
| Win7Mac | I thought 4 was min. for elections to be held | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 4=election of 3, 5=election of 3 | 22:45 |
| chem|st | ah ok... | 22:45 |
| chem|st | well better 5 to vote from... | 22:45 |
| chem|st | yeah just reread... | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have to say i#m happy about a 3 nose council. Generally seems to be more efficient | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | than 5 | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | feels like 1/2^3 vs 1/2^5 | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes even N! instead of 2^N | 22:51 |
| Win7Mac | 3 might be more efficient than 5, but only if all are present. If only 2 are missing, you're screwed with a council of 3... | 22:54 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: missing depends on the point of view... you are asking way to much for meetings for simple "send a mail" topics - we are in a multi-continent community... | 22:58 |
| Win7Mac | council decides by mail too? | 22:59 |
| chem|st | it's not like the world ends if you get an answer 24h after asked is it? | 22:59 |
| Win7Mac | nope | 22:59 |
| chem|st | no council doesn't as it was not that precious yet | 23:00 |
| Win7Mac | if only I would get answers from you... | 23:00 |
| Win7Mac | upon HiFo-mails | 23:00 |
| chem|st | but actually a good idea to implement for the future... | 23:00 |
| chem|st | you really need a "yup" mail after others have said the rest I'd say? | 23:01 |
| Win7Mac | i can't smell your opinion | 23:01 |
| Win7Mac | and after all, everybodys opinion should be heard | 23:02 |
| chem|st | I read all mails so far but after reading the whole thread I had nothing to add | 23:02 |
| chem|st | most of the stuff was phrasing and that goes to our natives please | 23:02 |
| Win7Mac | then why not just answer "go ahead" or something? - that's what i ask for when writing a mail | 23:03 |
| chem|st | I do not have a position in HiFo board and am actually glad about that^^ | 23:03 |
| chem|st | will do in the future, sure | 23:03 |
| Woody14619 | A non-reply though can indicate you're ok with it, or that you haven't read it, or it hit a spam filter... or... | 23:03 |
| Win7Mac | you are board, that's enough to be heard | 23:04 |
| chem|st | well I answered the last thread didn't I | 23:04 |
| Win7Mac | Hi Woody o/ | 23:04 |
| Woody14619 | You did, and it was appreciated. :) | 23:04 |
| Woody14619 | o/ | 23:05 |
| chem|st | for the future recognize it as read and nothing to add, at least after 48h of working days | 23:05 |
| Win7Mac | that's ok, if I only knew you were taking this for granted | 23:05 |
| Win7Mac | ;) | 23:06 |
| chem|st | I read them all but your banking issues was nothing I could help with... once I was drunk and was pretty close to sending an email with "those bloody bankster assholes" | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for council we didn't need mails so far, we agreed on proper procedure ad hoc | 23:06 |
| Woody14619 | :) I was sober and almost wrote that... ;) | 23:06 |
| Win7Mac | well, write right away if you feel so | 23:06 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: worked pretty well so far | 23:07 |
| chem|st | hehe | 23:07 |
| chem|st | :) | 23:07 |
| chem|st | did I actually hit send? | 23:07 |
| Woody14619 | Alas for board, that "+1" is needed, for legal reasons if nothing else. ;) | 23:07 |
| chem|st | well sure, I will give you those in the future | 23:08 |
| Woody14619 | That's one thing I like about forums vs e-mail. You can just hit "+1" or "like" or "thanks" and you know it's been read. | 23:08 |
| Win7Mac | chem|st, promise publicly to visit fridays meetings regularly and I might vote for you again... | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I hope every council member has a brain to decide if a decision needs unanimous agreement or simple majority nodoff or can be done without further "voting" and can get discussed or reverted later | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: +1 ;-D | 23:09 |
| Win7Mac | but leaves much room for interpretation, how important one thing is | 23:10 |
| Woody14619 | For Council, that's usually a clearer path... Technically, that "+1" for board should also require to be PGP-signed as well... :P But that just the pseudo-lawyer side of me doing CYA. | 23:10 |
| chem|st | I promise to get rid of friday meetings... the timeframe is most of the time sitting in a car at 140km/h or having dinner... the latter more than once reading channel and cooking at the same time | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I asked you to suggest a better date | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | several times | 23:11 |
| Woody14619 | Times are totally adjustable IMHO. Only reason Fridays @ 1800UTC clicked was because of those involed when I started it. OF which, 0 are left on council. | 23:12 |
| chem|st | and I said any but weekends didn't I? | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually you said nothing i could recall to have seen | 23:12 |
| Win7Mac | anyway, guys, set up a doodle poll... | 23:13 |
| chem|st | well nevermind... two to go wher I am available at 0-1... at least I tell that ahead now^^ | 23:13 |
| chem|st | Win7Mac: you do not need a doodle to get a weekly timeframe of 3 guys... | 23:13 |
| * Woody14619 starts implementing e-mail receipt replies in modest.... | 23:13 | |
| Woody14619 | Or if you do, something is terribly wrong... | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 23:14 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: when you are at it could you add gnupg please^^ | 23:14 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(JJ suggested doodle when he, Rob and I were the only 3...) | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha | 23:14 |
| chem|st | yeah Win7Mac likes to call for meetings and doodle^^ | 23:14 |
| Win7Mac | ok, nvm, but find a solution ;) | 23:15 |
| Woody14619 | Yeah.. I'll do that too... in my copious amount of free time. ;) | 23:15 |
| Woody14619 | Though we do need a meeting sooner than later... Lots of topics to discuss, even if it's just on IRC. | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I announce next council meeting is Thursday instead Friday (oops, is Thurday also weekend now? ;-P ) | 23:16 |
| Woody14619 | I just lack time to put them all down right now. :P | 23:16 |
| Woody14619 | speaking of.. need to get back to work. :P | 23:16 |
| Woody14619 | o/ | 23:16 |
| chem|st | yeah thursday throughout monday... at least when bitcoin raises another $1000 I can extend my weekends that way^^ | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: cya | 23:17 |
| chem|st | bb | 23:17 |
| Win7Mac | btw, doodle worked for our last meeting, wasn't it? | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what became of my suggestion to ... ah nevermind | 23:19 |
| Win7Mac | *didn't it | 23:19 |
| Win7Mac | what? | 23:19 |
| Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer05, what? | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not my topic | 23:20 |
| Win7Mac | thursday? | 23:20 |
| Win7Mac | bylaws? | 23:21 |
| Win7Mac | put it straight and I send a mail right away | 23:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme make a new suggestion: HiFo BoD should hire err buy a satellite for worldwide video conferences, any time anywhere | 23:22 |
| Win7Mac | probably we could share a todo list (within Hifo, within council, or cross-linked)? | 23:23 |
| Win7Mac | *which survives change of persons | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually a nice idea | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since we got no more meeting minutes since we got no more meetings | 23:25 |
| Win7Mac | a new blade? - what was the suggestion you ... ah nevermind | 23:25 |
| Win7Mac | that'll hopefully change with the new concil | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have no more manpower to install a new blade. That train passed by | 23:26 |
| Win7Mac | oops | 23:26 |
| Win7Mac | but warfare's still in place? | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we particularly have no usecase and no manpower to do service for such a blade | 23:27 |
| Win7Mac | ah ok | 23:27 |
| Win7Mac | no usecase? - thought it was you who wanted it | 23:28 |
| Win7Mac | but nvm, good if we don't need it | 23:28 |
| qwazix | quarreling without me? :P | 23:28 |
| qwazix | anyway, thursdays is better for me too | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yay | 23:29 |
| Win7Mac | HA! too late you are... suspicious... ;) | 23:29 |
| Win7Mac | Hi qwazix! o/ ;) | 23:29 |
| qwazix | hi Win7Mac | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | instead of a new blade, HiFo could help me out and manage the 2 crates of beer promised to IPHH (plus the one that deserves to warfare) | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or make that 4, 2 for next year already | 23:31 |
| Win7Mac | you're lucky, I'm in Hamburg too | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ | 23:32 |
| Win7Mac | is that all? ;) | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | quite | 23:32 |
| Win7Mac | honestly, I already asked warfare what they'd need to extend the contract, but got no answer so far | 23:33 |
| Win7Mac | been 12 days already | 23:34 |
| Woody14619 | Likely just another payment, per the contract already in place. It has an extension clause built in that I put there intentionally hoping they would see fit to just use to keep going as long as we are both good on it. | 23:34 |
| Woody14619 | I'm not sure how often warfare goes there or has contact. Even back then it was weekly at most. | 23:35 |
| Win7Mac | ah, ok. he said he'd need to ask a collegue | 23:35 |
| qwazix | night o/ | 23:43 |
| Win7Mac | hello and goodby | 23:43 |
| Win7Mac | goodbye | 23:43 |
| chem|st | jollausers welcome email starts "Thank you for registering at Jolla & Sailfish OS Forum." | 23:45 |
| Win7Mac | Woody14619, do you have IPHH's bank details to do the payment and you know when the payment is due? | 23:46 |
| Woody14619 | I do not. Cosimo handled that last time, just before he left. As I recall he sent them the money from his own account, which was being used to collect funds in via PayPal at the time (before we had a bank account and all that mess setting up for HiFo). | 23:53 |
| Woody14619 | Depending, it may be simpler to do something like that again, if in-country payments are cheaper. And we can transfer the funds before or after the payment to the helper doing it via PayPal or what not. | 23:54 |
| Win7Mac | thanks, ok I'll ask warfare about it, referring to here | 23:55 |
| Woody14619 | Paying direct would incur two fees, one for Euro conversion and one for wire transfer. :P We have till March/April timeframe from where I see it anyway... They started allowing us to host, but the contract wasn't in place until March-ish. So, technically we have time. | 23:56 |
| Woody14619 | Just wanted it started so we didn't lose track of it... | 23:56 |
| Woody14619 | Rather pay a bill early than miss it and lose out. | 23:56 |
| Win7Mac | right, and thanks for doing so. But not sure if I got you right, whats the difference between paying them directly and refunding me later, we're both in GER... | 23:58 |
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