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| thedead1440 | FWIW, i think the email to past maintainers/administrators is good to be sent out | 19:19 |
|---|---|---|
| merlin1991 | +1 | 20:21 |
| thedead1440 | hi merlin1991 hopefully council is able to agree to sending the email out in this meeting instead of it being postponed as usual... | 20:22 |
| win7mac | +1 | 20:27 |
| win7mac | I need to go now, have a nice and productive meeting, probably I drop in later | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and no, I don't think the explanation of our problems is accurate or helpful in that mail draft | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | autobuilder itself is NOT hogging anything | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/ | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's easy to see | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's also harly conclusive how those "problems" quoted there may put the whole maemo.org infra on peril | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hardly* | 21:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Are there any ##topics for #maemo-meeting? | 21:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Hi all BTW | 21:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Sorry for my absence lately I am busy in RL and I have had no inet for 2 weeks | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: seems you didn't miss much, except a number of epically silent meetings | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didumdidum | 21:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I know, but thanks. I have been reading the logs this week. | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, sorry sixwheeledbeast, not against you but... PING me when something eventually happens here | 21:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ##topic IRC Cloaks any progress? | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I got better stuff to do | 21:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ##topic autobuilder did any progress happen. anthonie was looking in to it? | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: not yet, since I planned to ask council about a few more details, and I planned to do that *on IRC* | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anthonie didn't do much so far | 21:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok thanks | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe relevant for you: merlin1991 completely deactivated repo-management | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so no more bogus "removing old pkg" | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya l8r (or not) | 21:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Thank i was about to ask that... | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as said above, please pin me if any of the other 7 guys drops by and we maybe even have an official meeting | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ping* | 21:16 |
| qwazix | hi sorry for being late | 21:16 |
| thedead1440 | i am around just have nothing to say :/ | 21:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ | 21:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ;) | 21:17 |
| thedead1440 | chem|st, merlin1991 around? | 21:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | mm... | 21:19 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | well as Doc really, I have stuff to do so ping me I'll be straight back. | 21:22 |
| thedead1440 | so no current council members willing to discuss the email to be sent? | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see backscroll | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and my post in council channel | 21:43 |
| thedead1440 | saw your comments to it doc | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also I sent a mail this afternoon, quoting a convo with win7mac | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's about it | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not like I never before elaborated on what are our problems with maemo.org | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but obviously IRC isn't popular anymore, as are meetings | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I'm gone again | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just one more comment: please DONT send same mail to 4+ redundant addr per person | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | odds are it will not make it past spamfilter | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pick one addr per person, or even send individual mail to each maintainer (I'd omit "ex-") | 21:48 |
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| Win7Mac_2 | o_O | 22:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I agree with above | 22:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | There are packages in latest builds that are not in latest packages is there a reason for this? did that libxc11 update break sth? | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | got removed - at least that's been the result we hoped for when hitting "delete" button | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I added another lengthy comment to that etherpad which I still don't think can be the most current one, given last edit been ~16th of this month | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, 20th | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, 26th | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it *is* latest one | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still I don't see how anybody would think a mail with >> @@@ NEED MORE STUFF HERE ABOUT WHAT NEXT STEPS ARE. @@@<< is to be considered ready for sending | 22:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | where? it looks ok to me. just need to complete or remove the list in the middle IMO | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I edited the above quoted phrase like 1h ago | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | definitely after [2013-07-26 18:19:47] <thedead1440> FWIW, i think the email to past maintainers/administrators is good to be sent out [2013-07-26 19:21:01] <merlin1991> +1 [2013-07-26 19:27:24] <win7mac> +1 | 22:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | mmm ok IC your point | 22:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I'd remove the incomplete/incorrect list of things in the middle and it's good to go. It's to the point and will hopefully get some response. | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I think I agree | 22:37 |
| qwazix | yeah, I think I agree too | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as commented in chat window, there's no use in listing which script fails in which line, to ask the experts of yesterday for help | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | such info is best shared interactively | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what we need are maintainers who are willing to carry on when the yesterday's experts walk away after some help the granted | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they* | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some new maintainers willing to learn | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise the effort of experts is mostly wasted | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and don't be mistaken on that - no expert will fail to recognize that fact and willoffer to help when there's nobody willing to learn and take over after a week or two | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | realistically knowledge transfer is the *only* thing we can ask for. Any ex-expert willing to do more would already have hollered and asked why his account doesn't work anymore | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | none of those experts will ponder to waste his time on a fix that needs to be redone in two weeks and then we will pester him again since nothing changed on "our2 side | 22:45 |
| qwazix | +100 | 22:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Exactly we don't have a complete list of things that are broken, they are the ex-experts. | 22:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | We need to round up community members that have knowledge of CMS and SQL etc for knowledge transfer to benefit the most. | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 22:54 |
| Woody14619 | And doing so a few days before most of Europe and/or the US goes on holiday is not the best time for that... Just saying... | 22:55 |
| qwazix | hmm, I didn't think of that but Woody is absolutely right | 22:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I suppose so, that means a 6 week delay before mails go out? | 23:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Maybe a relaxing holiday will make people more willing to help? Or could the fact people are on holiday mean they would commit more time for KT. Hard to call. | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think the mails are not exactly bad when we make clear what we hope to get from those experts. We hope for them to agree and chime in and teach any yet to find maintainers via learning by doing, i.e. an old expert assisting a new maintainer on slving a particular issue | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however priority in my book have the new maintainers, not the mail to ex-maemo-sysops | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as somebody steps up, I and merlin and woody can already teach them a few bits, and I probably can arrange some short chat with Eero when particular questions arise, and we can reach out for all those ex-experts then | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not willing to give the stand-in for any such new maintainers. I have neither the time nor the expertise for that | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yet I did the stand-in every now and then during the last 6 months. This has to stop now | 23:15 |
| Woody14619 | Asking for helpers can happen now, I'd say. And even asking for help from previous maintainers could happen now. I can learn from reading a log. It's just harder to ask questions in RT. ;) | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62447 is a really "nice" read | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hard to believe | 23:26 |
| qwazix | night guys! | 23:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | gn qwazix | 23:29 |
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