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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I can't join today's meeting | 19:49 |
|---|---|---|
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| thedead1440 | for reference: 21:33 <chem|st> qwazix DocScrutinizer51 merlin1991 thedead1440 sixwheeledbeast: I wont make this evening's meeting, can you please track the progress with a pad (eg http://piratepad.net/) so I may proceed with it over the weekend...?! Reading: make the progress of aligning HFC to MCC visible to everyone not only people who read 4 days of IRC backlog, please! | 20:31 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix, sixwheeledbeas, merlin1991: I'm free to start meeting at your convenience | 20:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | thedead1440: no problem having a quick shower and I'll brb, please post any topics for discussion. | 20:34 |
| * thedead1440 unfortunately has no topics for today | 20:34 | |
| sixwheeledbeast | Ok well reading scroll back I can find... | 20:55 |
| thedead1440 | nothing? :p | 20:55 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ##Aligning MCC and HFC | 20:55 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ##Autobuilder issues? | 20:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ##IRC cloaks for Council | 20:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ##IRC channel op/GC | 20:58 |
| * sixwheeledbeast had a stable enough inet connection to have scroll back this week :) | 20:59 | |
| thedead1440 | hehe | 20:59 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ##Anything outstanding from last week | 21:00 |
| qwazix | hi all | 21:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Ok well it's 2 minutes past, who here :) | 21:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hi qwazix | 21:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I guess merlin is busy with Tmaemo8 update? | 21:05 |
| merlin1991 | nope I'm here | 21:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok :) | 21:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | should we start? | 21:07 |
| qwazix | yep | 21:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | topics? | 21:09 |
| Drathir | hi all | 21:09 |
| Drathir | sixwheeledbeast: any info how big is progres of update? | 21:10 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: and why not? | 21:10 |
| freemangordon | sorry for the OT | 21:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Drathir: progress of what? | 21:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | freemangordon: lol | 21:11 |
| Drathir | sixwheeledbeast: Tmaemo8 update | 21:11 |
| * thedead1440 is back too | 21:12 | |
| sixwheeledbeast | Drathir: Not here please plus I am not ssu maintainer see #maemo-ssu or #maemo | 21:12 |
| Drathir | sixwheeledbeast: ok im sorry i go to check thanks a lot | 21:14 |
| thedead1440 | start with aligning hfc and mcc? | 21:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yep | 21:17 |
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| thedead1440 | what's stopping us from aligning the 2 bodies? | 21:20 |
| sixwheeledbeast | AFAIK we need the same members on both parties, also we declare that MCC will unite with HFC | 21:23 |
| thedead1440 | to do so we need a full attendance of both bodies too right? | 21:23 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I agree | 21:23 |
| thedead1440 | so we do it via email? | 21:24 |
| thedead1440 | and a subsequent post to mailing list and tmo? | 21:24 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: there? | 21:24 |
| qwazix | yep | 21:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | well we definitely need to let the community know. | 21:25 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: what do you think should be done? | 21:25 |
| qwazix | I'm okay with your proposal | 21:25 |
| qwazix | agree all over mail in public ml | 21:26 |
| qwazix | and then post result on tmo+ML | 21:26 |
| thedead1440 | so chair i.e. chem|st sends out the initial emails for the alignment? | 21:27 |
| qwazix | I thin we should decide now on initial text | 21:28 |
| thedead1440 | agreed | 21:28 |
| qwazix | think* | 21:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok | 21:28 |
| thedead1440 | we start a draft here: http://piratepad.net/4mk7x5zBxD ? | 21:29 |
| thedead1440 | I've added just two lines; please add too | 21:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I have some bits I can use on file somewhere mompls will paste in. | 21:32 |
| thedead1440 | ok | 21:33 |
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| thedead1440 | hi Woody14619 | 21:33 |
| Woody14619 | hello, so I'm late (am on N900) | 21:33 |
| Woody14619 | s/so/sorry/ | 21:34 |
| thedead1440 | np; we were starting to draft an email for the alignment of MCC and HFC; could you chime in on the text too please | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest thedead1440 and sixwheeledbeast officially step down from their council position and keep an unofficial affiliated status that's not involving their vote on any official HFC/MCC decisions but they have both a word in discussions about any decision the council(s) do and council(s) are obliged to consider all comments/contributions of the two | 21:39 |
| thedead1440 | we announce it now doc at this moment? | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when ever you do, councils are free to unite same moment | 21:40 |
| thedead1440 | i'm all for doing it right now to make things simpler | 21:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: we are dratfing a document now | 21:40 |
| thedead1440 | its best to resign in a meeting instead of separately via ML etc | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm afk again, just dropped by to rant a bit | 21:41 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I agree I didn't vote on referendum for nothing | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one last statement: _I_ agree on councils accept your stepping down and will keep your status as affiliated "councilors of council councilors" | 21:42 |
| thedead1440 | you aim to confuse people with that term :p | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. I mandate that council keeps you in with "full voice" but no vote | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl | 21:44 |
| thedead1440 | ok | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui another 2 of the remaining 4 voting same will create a obligatory decision of the council(s) to listen to you both for the rest of this term, when you step down | 21:46 |
| thedead1440 | merlin1991 and qwazix your votes for ^^ to get that out of the way now itself | 21:47 |
| thedead1440 | s/for/for or against/ | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you both stating "I step down but keep my status as described by council blabla" is all it needs | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for HFC please check bylaws if sixwheeledbeast needs to step down in writing | 21:48 |
| qwazix | sorry, battery-swapping | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if stepping down HFC needs written notice, a email is sufficient I guess | 21:49 |
| qwazix | I don't think anybody will deny either thedead1440 or sixwheeledbeast from voicing their opinion, so this formality is in my book unneeded | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if not needed, then posting here in chan is all it takes | 21:50 |
| qwazix | I for one promise that I'll not gag anybody in this channel :P | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: it's about remaining council *listening* to them and trying to find a consensus with them | 21:51 |
| thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: qwazix has a valid point; why complicate matters with introducing such a formality? | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ | 21:51 |
| thedead1440 | oops lag | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the council promises sth to them | 21:51 |
| sixwheeledbeast | thedead1440: at meeting end if we both declair step-down to ML, it's in writing then? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, afk now for good | 21:52 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05: I agree fully, I just don't think we need to make it formal and become even more boring for the community | 21:52 |
| thedead1440 | sixwheeledbeast: for MCC yes, for HFC we need to check by-laws | 21:52 |
| qwazix | I'm okay either way anyway | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | qwazix: simply say "yes I agreeN and all boredom has an end | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | as soon a third council also does | 21:54 |
| thedead1440 | ok by-laws has nothing specific for resignation of a council member | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | good | 21:55 |
| thedead1440 | since the mcc rules were adopted i would say the same steps have to be followed | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | merlin1991: and qwazix say YAY and step1 done | 21:55 |
| thedead1440 | only one issue; membership to the Board; and conduct the elections of the Foundation. There shall be either three of five persons on Council | 21:56 |
| thedead1440 | if the above is interpreted as a typo to mean three or five persons on Council what what happen if Council falls to 4 members | 21:57 |
| thedead1440 | Do we assume that since MCC rules, adopted by HFC, have no such provision, its fine to just move on? | 21:57 |
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| thedead1440 | hi Win7Mac | 22:00 |
| Win7Mac | Hi! | 22:01 |
| qwazix | oops sorry, was disconnected, of course I vote yay | 22:01 |
| qwazix | hi Win7Mac | 22:01 |
| merlin1991 | +1 | 22:02 |
| thedead1440 | so ok for formality's sake we have a provision that the aligned council must listen to sixwheeledbeast's and my opinions before reaching on a consensus in the future | 22:03 |
| qwazix | thedead1440: for this term | 22:03 |
| thedead1440 | indeed | 22:03 |
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| HtheB | boo, im late for the meeting | 22:11 |
| thedead1440 | HtheB: you can read the livelogs as stated in /topic | 22:12 |
| HtheB | i know :) | 22:13 |
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| thedead1440 | we are more/less done with the draft i think, qwazix your input please | 22:15 |
| thedead1440 | merlin1991: yours yoo | 22:15 |
| qwazix | let me read one last time | 22:16 |
| merlin1991 | looks good to me only line 10 is a bit weird | 22:16 |
| thedead1440 | merlin1991: please fix it then :) | 22:16 |
| merlin1991 | ah wait I've read an earlier version of it | 22:16 |
| qwazix | added one word | 22:18 |
| qwazix | otherwise it's fine | 22:18 |
| merlin1991 | line 44 is rather redundant in the light of line 12 | 22:19 |
| thedead1440 | merlin1991: removed it | 22:20 |
| merlin1991 | looks fine now | 22:20 |
| thedead1440 | who did the strike-through? | 22:21 |
| Win7Mac | me | 22:22 |
| thedead1440 | i rather that sentence be left for those unable to catch up | 22:22 |
| qwazix | I liked that last sentence | 22:22 |
| qwazix | It summed it up nicely | 22:23 |
| qwazix | even if redundant | 22:23 |
| Win7Mac | ok, fine | 22:23 |
| thedead1440 | then put it back in | 22:23 |
| thedead1440 | and remove line12 | 22:23 |
| Win7Mac | I stumbled upon "see" in the 2nd sentence, sounds somehow wrong to me | 22:25 |
| qwazix | s/see to/result in/ ? | 22:25 |
| Win7Mac | better | 22:26 |
| qwazix | we feel this for... sentence is too much, IMO | 22:27 |
| qwazix | that last sentence should be short and powerful | 22:29 |
| sixwheeledbeast | can we please talk in piratepad I didn't realise there was discussion here , lol. | 22:29 |
| qwazix | sixwheeledbeast: I'm on N900 and chat on pp is a pain | 22:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | too many tabs :) | 22:30 |
| thedead1440 | hehe | 22:30 |
| qwazix | can't scroll the tiny window | 22:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | qwazix: ok np then :) | 22:30 |
| qwazix | thanks | 22:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | what do we think, final read? | 22:31 |
| thedead1440 | i think its fine now | 22:32 |
| qwazix | My only suggestion is to trim the last sentence short | 22:32 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: its now "We believe the above is an important step for moving the Community forward with an unified Council in the post-Nokia era." | 22:32 |
| qwazix | okay it's good, now that I read it again | 22:33 |
| qwazix | isn't it "a unified" rather than "an unified"? | 22:33 |
| qwazix | sixwheeledbeast ^^? | 22:34 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yes a agree qwazix | 22:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/a/I/ | 22:35 |
| merlin1991 | imo way too much "this" in the text, but it's not a book we hand in | 22:35 |
| thedead1440 | changed a few words to remove "this" | 22:36 |
| thedead1440 | re-read please | 22:37 |
| merlin1991 | I'm fine with the current version | 22:37 |
| thedead1440 | sixwheeledbeast: ok with it? | 22:38 |
| Win7Mac | line 7: "with similar rules" or "with same rules"? | 22:38 |
| thedead1440 | similar due to the 3 and 5 candidates thing being tweaked | 22:38 |
| Win7Mac | ah ok | 22:39 |
| sixwheeledbeast | bit of grammar and tarting, but the body is there. | 22:39 |
| thedead1440 | i think it could now be sent to doc and chem|st for their revisions before its published | 22:39 |
| qwazix | thedead1440: +1 | 22:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | agreed | 22:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | merlin1991: ^^^ | 22:40 |
| merlin1991 | +1 | 22:41 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok do we e-mail or post linkto PP? | 22:41 |
| thedead1440 | i think an email | 22:42 |
| qwazix | better pst link IMO | 22:42 |
| thedead1440 | ok then post the link | 22:42 |
| thedead1440 | i'm ok with both | 22:42 |
| qwazix | tracking revisions in email is not optimal | 22:42 |
| qwazix | but we can post the link *and* copy the text in the body to make sure it isn't lost or vandalized | 22:43 |
| thedead1440 | true | 22:43 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I will save a copy to desktop now. | 22:44 |
| thedead1440 | sixwheeledbeast: could you send it to the other two also? | 22:45 |
| qwazix | yes please, I tried to copy all text on N900 but ctrl +a selects all website | 22:46 |
| qwazix | nvm I made it | 22:46 |
| qwazix | sending now to both councils | 22:46 |
| thedead1440 | before i fall asleep i think its best i do a formal announcement of me stepping down: | 22:47 |
| sixwheeledbeast | qwazix: have you sent it? I can't copy it correctly. | 22:47 |
| thedead1440 | I agree to step down as MCC member with immediate effect so that both the MCC and HFC can be aligned into a single unified Council. | 22:48 |
| qwazix | I sent it | 22:48 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: rec'd it | 22:48 |
| qwazix | sixwheeledbeast: ^^ | 22:48 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I agree to step down as HFC member with immediate effect so that both the MCC and HFC can be aligned into a single unified Council. :) | 22:48 |
| thedead1440 | :D | 22:48 |
| Win7Mac | you sure you want to step down now? | 22:49 |
| thedead1440 | good now i can sleep :D | 22:49 |
| qwazix | Thanks guys, really appreciated | 22:49 |
| qwazix | lol | 22:49 |
| sixwheeledbeast | you did it to me for candidate declarations :D | 22:49 |
| sixwheeledbeast | thedead1440: ^^^ | 22:50 |
| thedead1440 | sixwheeledbeast: ah revenge served cold; i see :p | 22:50 |
| sixwheeledbeast | it's the best way... | 22:50 |
| sixwheeledbeast | OK so other topics? | 22:51 |
| thedead1440 | sixwheeledbeast: maybe that's why people decided to put both of us in ;) they couldn't decide whose declaration was who's actually :D | 22:51 |
| Win7Mac | latest news about BoD meeting? | 22:51 |
| sixwheeledbeast | lmao | 22:51 |
| merlin1991 | the rest of the list is | 22:51 |
| merlin1991 | ##Autobuilder issues? | 22:51 |
| merlin1991 | ##IRC cloaks for Council | 22:51 |
| merlin1991 | ##IRC channel op/GC | 22:51 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Win7Mac: Can councils finish the topics above first | 22:52 |
| Win7Mac | sure | 22:52 |
| merlin1991 | regarding Autobuilder, we had a problem on repo which led to packages not getting imported, I jumpstarted that but it's dead again because the import/promotion queue has gone mental | 22:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Ok so the autobuilder is pants at the moment is there anything council can do about the situ? | 22:53 |
| merlin1991 | so this one's dead untill we find out why | 22:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok thanks merlin1991 | 22:53 |
| thedead1440 | sixwheeledbeast: what can council do other than issue a call for additional help? | 22:53 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | It someone on the case for "finding out why"? | 22:54 |
| qwazix | If you ask me we should dump that thing and put the effort at setting obs up instead | 22:54 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/It/Is/ | 22:54 |
| merlin1991 | I've spent 6 hrs on that yesterday | 22:54 |
| merlin1991 | I'll probably digg into it again next week | 22:54 |
| merlin1991 | I'm happy though if somebody else stepps up | 22:54 |
| qwazix | merlin1991: I bet in 6h you would had set up an obs | 22:54 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Ok well thank you for your "digging" merlin1991. | 22:55 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Currently I am keeping an eye on the "cleaning old version" rolling issue to stop the DB filling up with junk. | 22:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok next topic? | 22:56 |
| qwazix | re: cloaks I think that only x-fade can set them up? | 22:57 |
| merlin1991 | yep ... | 22:57 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Agreed this is what I know too | 22:57 |
| qwazix | maybe we can appeal to freenode? | 22:58 |
| qwazix | say he's disappeared and that hfc should become op? | 22:58 |
| qwazix | or DocScrutinizer05? | 22:58 |
| sixwheeledbeast | joint GC is not an option I believe | 22:58 |
| chainsawbike | hi, here-ish been talking to docscrutinizer about helping with sys maint... will lurk quietly unless wanted | 22:59 |
| qwazix | chairman, or somebody each new hfc votes @first meeting | 22:59 |
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| qwazix | chainsawbike: hi | 22:59 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Also GC/sysop has to be a person I'd say warfare myself. | 23:00 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Anyway I think DocS was looking in to this topic but we need to consider that cloaks "should" be done for council members ASAP | 23:01 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 23:01 |
| sixwheeledbeast | OK I have a couple more bits if we are finished with IRC stuff? | 23:02 |
| qwazix | go ahead | 23:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I feel http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team needs to be updated | 23:04 |
| Win7Mac | I could do it, if I get the info | 23:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | If there are jobs which are unoccupied they could be put on so we know who to assign a role/job. | 23:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I am unsure of the information too. | 23:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | thedead1440: are you scratchbox maintainer? | 23:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Also I'd like to point out I have started a new wiki to clean up the old "Migration wiki" | 23:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Infrastructure Infra topics can be forked off this page I also foundmaemo.org/infra too which is OOD. | 23:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://maemo.org/infra | 23:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :) | 23:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | what do we think, I don't want to keep merlin from his dinner :P | 23:11 |
| Win7Mac | Access denied for me on http://maemo.org/infra is that correct for regular users? | 23:13 |
| qwazix | is that midgard? | 23:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Oh so it's not even viewable for you Win7Mac? | 23:15 |
| merlin1991 | sixwheeledbeast: I can't view it either | 23:16 |
| merlin1991 | probably linked to some permission | 23:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Ok well ignore me then | 23:16 |
| qwazix | arsegard :P | 23:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | How about updating of the wiki's then | 23:16 |
| merlin1991 | go for it | 23:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I need the info lol | 23:17 |
| merlin1991 | it's a wiki after all | 23:17 |
| Win7Mac | I get "Your user account does not have sufficient privileges." | 23:17 |
| merlin1991 | yep me too | 23:18 |
| merlin1991 | sixwheeledbeast: so we'll try to get together the current info | 23:18 |
| Win7Mac | I don't need to though. just wanted to report | 23:18 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yep and I am sure Win7Mac or me can update if we know who the current person are for stuf | 23:19 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Win7Mac: ignore that from before | 23:20 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ok well anything else? | 23:21 |
| merlin1991 | I've got nothing | 23:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | qwazix? Win7Mac? | 23:22 |
| Win7Mac | thedead1440, sixwheeledbeast, I'm sure community might forgive you for stepping down IF you both self-nominate for BoD! :) | 23:22 |
| sixwheeledbeast | mmm | 23:22 |
| qwazix | no, I'm good too | 23:22 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Win7Mac did you have a topic? | 23:22 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I guess thedead1440 is afk | 23:23 |
| Win7Mac | latest news on bod meeting | 23:23 |
| Win7Mac | ? | 23:23 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, sixwheeledbeast, thanks again | 23:23 |
| Win7Mac | yeah, thanks | 23:23 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Win7Mac: I have nfc | 23:23 |
| qwazix | Win7Mac: whatever I know is on tmo | 23:23 |
| Win7Mac | I think woody is on it | 23:24 |
| qwazix | one can only hope he'll succeed | 23:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | qwazix: np I didn't vote on joining councils for nothing, however I never imagined I would have to step out of the way for it to happen... | 23:24 |
| Win7Mac | oh, can we banners for nominations on all *maemo.or startpages? good idea to you? | 23:24 |
| Win7Mac | *have | 23:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | maemo.org is midgard so :shrug: | 23:25 |
| merlin1991 | I guess I can head for dinner? | 23:26 |
| qwazix | sixwheeledbeast: true... | 23:26 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yes merlin1991: go eat, good luck with repos and T8, thank you! :) | 23:26 |
| Win7Mac | I already asked joerg about banners and wanted to look into it. Hope he finds out | 23:27 |
| Win7Mac | and *he wanted... | 23:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Oh well I'll leave that with DocS then as non of the council members here can do that. | 23:28 |
| qwazix | I'm fine with it if that's what you're asking | 23:30 |
| qwazix | if there is nothing else can we call it quits? | 23:30 |
| qwazix | It has been a real hard week... | 23:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :agreed: on both counts | 23:30 |
| Win7Mac | 6wheeled, go for BoD! | 23:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ##Meeting end | 23:31 |
| Win7Mac | ;) | 23:31 |
| Win7Mac | Thanks everybody. So sorry this had to be done in order to get things straight. | 23:33 |
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