IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Friday, 2013-05-31

« Thursday, 2013-05-30 Index Saturday, 2013-06-01 »
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DocScrutinizer05[2013-05-31 19:29:41] <thedead1440_> i won't be able to attend today's meeting21:00
chem|stok so it is us two?21:03
qwazixhi!21:03
sixwheeledbeasthi all21:04
chem|st321:04
chem|st421:04
chem|stat least :)21:04
chem|stqwazix: how is it going with the announcement?21:04
qwazixI still don't know what I have to announce21:05
Woody14619o/21:06
chem|ststarting of a 14 days nomination period extension as of now we only had 2 nominations with the electorate criteria, followed by a 7 day hold followed by 7 days of voting21:07
sixwheeledbeasthey Woody21:07
chem|sthey21:07
chem|stqwazix: actually what you did in your draft you sent around but changing the dates21:08
qwazixchem|st: okay21:08
qwazix:nod:21:08
DocScrutinizer05we can't extend any nomination period, there is no more valid election process running that could get extended21:08
chem|stWoody14619: is that ok with you?21:08
chem|stwell then do not call it extension, say as the last election timed out due to the lack of participation we are starting over with a fresh 14 days yadayada21:09
Woody14619It's essentially a new announce.  And yes, that all seems fine, and lines up with bylaws for new announce. (14 + 7 + 7)21:09
Woody14619I don't think there will be a problem getting GA and I to re-nominate.21:10
chem|stqwazix: so no extension but a fresh start21:10
qwazixok21:10
chem|stqwazix: I will do the talk and you the email?21:11
Woody14619chem|st, did you see my comment about making sure js is on in the browser when trying to add blog posts?21:12
DocScrutinizer05would be extremely nice when tmo posts would show up under official maemo council account21:12
chem|stWoody14619: I am not the admin of maemo.org... only talk21:12
DocScrutinizer05???21:12
chem|stor do you need it on talk?21:13
Woody14619No... this is not about admin...21:13
DocScrutinizer05js is on in the browser(!!!)21:13
Woody14619This is about a setting in your browser, to allow javascript and cookies on m.o21:13
chem|stlol21:13
chem|stWoody14619: I do see it on the news page available though but not on the council one21:14
DocScrutinizer05is this meeting topic?21:14
chem|ststill not being able to blogpost is actually21:14
DocScrutinizer05k21:15
DocScrutinizer05I think a 5 or 6 months ago this worked21:15
Woody14619asgarddoah! I think I see why21:15
DocScrutinizer05arsegard21:16
chem|stI read the first respons on the bod meeting and laughed... for setting up a meeting with 3 guys... doodle awesome!21:16
qwazixpingtest21:16
chem|stpong21:16
qwazixI don't know if I was online sorry for the spam if I was21:16
Woody14619First/only.   K.  I think I nailed the blog issue...21:16
qwazix<qwazix> no problem. what are the dates?21:16
qwazix<qwazix> 14+7+7 starting today?21:17
chem|stWoody14619: ok thanks21:17
chem|stqwazix: well as of tomorow I'd say21:17
DocScrutinizer05assgard indeed21:18
chem|stit is only 5.5h till tomorrow so...21:18
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qwazix:nod:21:18
Woody14619So voting would be... 22-29?  Or 23-30?  I always get confused on that one. :P  I usually go with the later one, since an extra day in discussion never killed anyone.21:19
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DocScrutinizer05any progress on making up your mind regarding councils united?21:19
chem|st1st 0:00UTC till 14th 23:59UTC, 15th 0:00UTC till 21st 23:59UTC, voting then 22nd 0:00UTC till 28th 23:59UTC21:20
chem|stJune21:21
sixwheeledbeastI believe "councils united" is important long term. However is new BoD members not more important at the moment?21:22
DocScrutinizer05don't forget to CC HiFo, particularly every of the three guys in direct mail21:22
Woody14619Where is April go?  Or May, for that matter...21:22
chem|stdrowned, both!21:23
DocScrutinizer05I ate them21:23
DocScrutinizer05ohshit you must've been hungry21:23
DocScrutinizer05YES THIS IS TRUE21:23
Woody14619s/is/did/....  AMS ARE A SPEAKER ENGLISH! HONEST!.21:24
chem|stdoes the blog send to ML?21:24
* Woody14619 has not been having a good day.... could use an actual holiday weekend... ;)21:24
chem|stif yes I could just put it in the blog then21:24
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: ? this did true?21:25
Woody14619Blog is supposed to post to TMO, but no, doesn't do ML.  There used to be a script running on Jaffa's system to RSS->e-mail the blog posts, but that is not running afaik now, since RSS stuff was down.21:25
chem|stWoody14619: you nailed it I got the create article button!21:25
Woody14619Woot!21:25
chem|stI will try with the announcement then21:26
DocScrutinizer05sure, once you are in the right usergroup ;-P21:26
Woody14619So... try it out.. Wait 10 minutes... See if a TMO post appears.  If not, make one and link it.  Then check e-mail.. ;)21:26
DocScrutinizer05never occurred to me that there might be several council usergroups21:26
Woody14619Actually.. once the right user group is added to the ACL.21:26
DocScrutinizer05or that21:27
DocScrutinizer05my fault probably21:27
Woody14619Only 2.  It's a side-effect of using garage.  Garage has 2 groups per slot, one for owners, one for members.21:27
DocScrutinizer05or midgards fault, with that unbearable list of 50000 usergroups21:27
Woody14619No, actually... you found it, with the adgard link you posted in admin.  I just noticed the wrong group name being used.21:28
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DocScrutinizer05arsegard retard21:28
Woody14619Turns out the view you had was different in some odd way vs what I get by selecting folder metadata... We'll have to discuss that offline some time. ;)21:29
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* DocScrutinizer05 appoints woody for midgard maintainer21:30
Woody14619Not i... damn... not fast enough.21:30
chem|stok so that is actually settled then, nice :)21:30
DocScrutinizer05_I_ get hysteric episodes touching that stuff21:30
chem|stWoody14619: that is the way how I became chair...21:31
chem|stoh can someone update the council wikipage, please?21:32
Woody14619What wiki page is that?21:32
chem|stwho is who21:32
chem|stcouncil page21:32
sixwheeledbeastI will21:32
chem|sthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council21:33
DocScrutinizer05oooh one thing: we had severe autobuilder hickup a few days ago, when a rejected package got built resp rejected over and over again. Somebody *needs* to look into that crap cronjob and fix that stuff21:33
Woody14619Another thing you should be able to do as council..21:33
sixwheeledbeastI wasn't sure what to put due to split council. I am guessing only CC for now?21:33
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: yep, and maybe clone it for HFC21:34
chem|stWoody14619: I am asking as my head was not fit for it earlier that day... it is some wikisyntax and html garbage...21:34
DocScrutinizer05swap thedead1440's name by yours21:34
sixwheeledbeastclone it to where?21:34
Woody14619I'd put MCC in top row, but add 6th in the main block with a footnote about HFC.21:34
DocScrutinizer05"hildon founcation council" ?21:34
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: OHNOES!21:34
Woody14619Is it worth it? For the month or so more it's going to live? ;)21:35
chem|stno it's not21:35
sixwheeledbeastI was thinking the merger of MCC and HFC would make this a pointless exercise.21:35
DocScrutinizer05indeed21:35
chem|st+121:35
Woody14619chem|st, see what you started with your request. ;)21:35
DocScrutinizer05only if we get that taking pace now21:35
chem|stWoody14619: I did not doc did....21:35
sixwheeledbeastI will fix something soon, now we have spoke about it.21:36
chem|stsixwheeledbeast: thanks21:36
sixwheeledbeastchem|st: np21:36
chem|stsixwheeledbeast: put all 6 in one row then and add a footnote for MCC and HFC like 1 and 221:37
chem|stadditional to the asterisk21:37
Woody14619.oO(So sad the lack of pictures for some council...)21:37
Woody14619Color coded! ;)21:37
chem|stWoody14619: shut up21:37
* Woody14619 runs to get crayons.21:37
DocScrutinizer05pretty please don't obfuscate facts by mixing HFC and MCC21:37
sixwheeledbeastI was thinking something like that there are asterisk's already but I'll sort it somehow.21:38
sixwheeledbeastEither way it has to be clear.21:38
DocScrutinizer05we can live without any HFC wiki page for now21:38
chem|stit will, I am sure you will find a way21:38
* Woody14619 nods21:38
sixwheeledbeast:nod:21:38
DocScrutinizer05but we don't want to present a 6 head Maemo Community Council wikipage, even with asterisks21:39
chem|stso for the so called 'merger' which is not a merger but well...21:39
* sixwheeledbeast asks Woody14619 if he can borrow a yellow crayon :)21:39
DocScrutinizer05no it's not a merger, it's a fusion21:40
* chem|st pushes his stacked crayon's box in the middle of the channel21:40
qwazixDocScrutinizer05: you just dind't say that!21:40
Woody14619Ohh... like Wagamamas. :)21:40
qwazixWoody14619: lol21:40
chem|stguys?21:41
sixwheeledbeastyes?21:41
DocScrutinizer05 the idea been: "we declare rules for HFC elections are: HFC is what gets elected for MCC during MCC votes. We declare that HFC unites with MCC and both entities share one body for now and ever. sincerely, your HFC"  _and_  "We declare we unite with HFC, will follow the HFC rules and accept they apply and affect to the MCC entity as well. Sincerely, MCC"21:41
chem|stI don't know what you guys smoke but would you mind doing it after the meeting?21:41
DocScrutinizer05so two entities share same body21:41
DocScrutinizer05for now and all future elections21:42
Woody14619As for the merger.  Technically, HFC is free to self-govern, based on the bylaws.  So it could just "suck in" MCC, and all it's sub-rules, etc, and move on.21:42
DocScrutinizer05I could (not) care less what signature the united council has to use in letters to BoD, in letters to maemo community and in letters to third party then21:43
chem|stdo we need that as a declaration?21:44
DocScrutinizer05for all practical purposes such fusion creates one body that obeys both (synced, since referendum) rulesets21:44
DocScrutinizer05yes, both entities nee3d to officially declare that21:45
Win7Macwhen would that be in affect?21:45
DocScrutinizer05as soon as MCC and HFC body are 100% in sync21:45
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Woody14619HFC should, yes.  I don't know if you'd need 100% sync on HFC's side, but for MCC, probably would.21:46
chem|stHFC hereby declares, for all future, we will share the body of MCC and inherit all changes to it's rules, electorate process and general changes.21:46
* DocScrutinizer05 nods off21:47
Win7Macjust don't seek further trouble, probably do that after elections?21:47
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: there's a good reason to do that *now*21:47
Woody14619Nah.. This is what lame-duck sessions are made for. ;)21:47
Win7Macok, good! ;-)21:47
DocScrutinizer05elections might trigger re-election of HFC but _nit_ MCC21:48
DocScrutinizer05not*21:48
DocScrutinizer05unless they are already united21:48
chem|stcan we have that elaboration stuff somewhere else please21:49
DocScrutinizer05ooh21:49
chem|stsixwheeledbeast: does that sound good to you?21:49
DocScrutinizer05I nod off in name of thedead1440 who authorized me21:49
chem|stor even all?21:49
chem|stWoody14619: your idea?21:49
chem|stis that sentence enough?21:49
chem|stor would you change the latter part21:50
sixwheeledbeastchem|st: I have logs open at the same time due to drop outs, mompls21:50
chem|stHFC hereby declares, for all future, we will share the body of MCC and inherit all changes to it's rules, electorate process and general changes.21:50
DocScrutinizer05wehn merlin and you agree then that's enough for HFC, we need to do same for MCC21:50
sixwheeledbeastI was talk to myself 2 minutes ago :(21:50
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: I know21:50
DocScrutinizer05then we have it "file closed" in 5 min21:50
sixwheeledbeasts/talk.talking/21:50
chem|stwe should vote on that and make sure all (ALL 6) vote both times yes21:51
chem|stso we need to agree on it first21:51
Woody14619I would think it's all good.21:51
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: yep21:51
chem|stI feel I miss something with "rules, electorate process and general changes"21:52
DocScrutinizer05MCC has to assure we won't do changes that conflict with bylaws21:52
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: we come to that in the next step21:52
DocScrutinizer05since that would cause lobotomy21:52
Woody14619s/all changes to/all existing / ?21:53
qwazixI sent the announcement to you all, if there are any objections before I publish it21:53
qwazixsorry, html mail. Sending again21:53
chem|stall existing yada and it's changes?21:53
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: yep21:54
Woody14619sounds better, yup.21:54
chem|stok rephrase...21:54
sixwheeledbeastSorry, so do we need 100% sync of members before merger can go ahead?21:54
DocScrutinizer05take your time21:54
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: yes21:54
Woody14619makes it clear you're adoping all current and future, not just future. :)21:54
chem|stHFC hereby declares, for all future, we will share the body of MCC and inherit all existing rules, electorate processes and generals and all it's changes.21:54
chem|stsixwheeledbeast: not yet, that is for future elections...21:55
Woody14619sixwheeledbeast: On HFC side, probably not required (self-governing), on MCC side probably (community approval)21:55
chem|stoh darn...21:55
sixwheeledbeastok np.21:55
DocScrutinizer05the members of current HFC have to be elected according to the rules that been set up _for_ _HFC_21:56
chem|st"we will share the body" sounds odd, "accept MCC's body as our body"?21:56
DocScrutinizer05no "merger" will be in effect before both bodies are identical21:56
chem|stcan you stop calling it a merger?21:57
DocScrutinizer05fusion21:57
chem|stboth is wrong...21:57
DocScrutinizer05unification21:57
chem|sthfc body dies and inherits mcc's21:57
DocScrutinizer05suggest a better word, my english is poor21:57
DocScrutinizer05NO, IT DOESN'T21:57
Woody14619DocScrutinizer05, right.  But HFC can simply appoint in someone else... just like BoD.21:58
Woody14619MCC can't do that.21:58
chem|stthat is why I always said we do not need equi bodies to do it...21:58
chem|stmcc cannot do but hfc is self governed21:58
DocScrutinizer05we do21:58
DocScrutinizer05at least morally21:58
chem|stnot even morally... grr it makes discussions about it easier if they are the same... but not needed at all...21:59
qwazixPlease confirm if I should publish21:59
Woody14619I do agree with DocScrutinizer05 on that one.21:59
DocScrutinizer05we urged and pestered community to vote a HFC. We can't replace it by a self-appointed body 4 weeks later22:00
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: nobody reads mails during meetings22:01
chem|stqwazix: put some more linebreakes in it, dates are written "June 1st" and I am fine22:01
Woody14619well, self-appointed where only one more person is added seems a stretch... Esp since said folks are all up for election again.22:01
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter22:02
chem|stoh isn't it now 3 weeks in 1.22:02
Win7MacIMHO, just wait after the elections, the only 1 getting in your way would be rob, so just wait 6 weeks and be all clear about it.22:02
DocScrutinizer05particularly when we go for a re-election anyway, why do it botch way when we can do it clean way?22:02
Win7Mac^^exactly22:02
chem|stcalling for order again!22:03
Woody14619Win7Mac, you're not in agreement... DocScrutinizer05 still calls for union pre-vote, of council(s) of 4.22:03
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: please! we're talking about unification of councils *before* BoD elections, for a crystal clear purpose22:03
chem|stcann I have a word on the last part please: "we will share the body" sounds odd, "accept MCC's body as our body"?22:03
qwazixDocScrutinizer05: The las time I didn't get a go during meeting and I was bashed for it.22:03
qwazixchem|st: okay22:03
* Woody14619 thinks of wording...22:04
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: sure22:04
chem|stsounds better right everyone?22:04
DocScrutinizer05maybe declare instead of accept22:04
DocScrutinizer05even define22:05
Woody14619We declair the bodies of HFC and MCC to be one single body, following the governance rules as merged?22:05
DocScrutinizer05first half fine, second fuzzy22:06
Woody14619yeah.22:06
chem|stHFC hereby declares, for all future, we accept the body of MCC as our body and inherit all existing rules, electorate processes and generals and all it's changes.22:06
chem|styou cannot write declare declare though22:06
chem|stHFC hereby declares, for all future, we accept the body of MCC as our body and inherit all existing rules, electorate processes, governance and all it's changes.22:07
chem|stHFC hereby declares, for all future, we accept the body of MCC as our body and inherit all existing rules, electorate processes, governance and all it's future changes.22:07
DocScrutinizer05HFC hereby declares, for all future, the body of MCC to define the HFC body and...22:07
chem|stthat has another meaning22:08
* qwazix pukes22:08
chem|stlol22:08
chem|stok...22:08
Woody14619How about:  HFC hereby declares the bodies of HFC and MCC to be one single body in perpetuity.  Further, HFC accepts as it's own all existing rules, electorate processes and generals of MCC, including future changes, as it's own.22:09
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DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: sold22:09
DocScrutinizer05not even ugly idioms in it ;-)22:09
qwazixMCC generals?22:09
chem|stok now the MCC one22:10
Woody14619Then replace the first and last HFC with MCC.  Done.22:10
chem|stnope22:10
Woody14619why not?22:10
qwazixs/generals/colonels/22:10
DocScrutinizer05MCC statement has to consider a few other details22:10
Woody14619(pending community approval?)22:11
DocScrutinizer05nope22:11
DocScrutinizer05referendum been community approval22:11
Woody14619Kinda figured that...22:11
chem|stok guys I need to get running...22:12
Woody14619how is the inverse then bad,  or missing something?22:12
DocScrutinizer05but since unlike HFC the MCC could change own rules any time with a new referendum, we must promise we won't do changes that conflict with HiFo bylaws22:12
chem|stqwazix: can I have the corrected version as email real quick?22:12
qwazixchem|st: I'm on the N900 so I'm a bit slow22:13
qwazixjust a sec22:13
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: we need to promise to do changes in a way that do not conflict with the bylaws statement of changing bylaws22:13
DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly22:13
sixwheeledbeast:nod:22:13
Woody14619so we add bylaws to the list.  MCC  hereby declares the bodies of HFC and MCC to be one single body in perpetuity.  Further, MCC accepts as it's own all existing rules, electorate processes, bylaws, and generals of HFC , including future changes, as it's own.22:14
DocScrutinizer05hmm, probably should work22:15
DocScrutinizer05let me read my own draft ;-)22:15
chem|stehrm no, that way bylaws could inflict mcc22:15
chem|styou do not want that22:15
chem|stMCC accepts to provide changes to bylaws in order with bylaws ruling on being changed yada22:16
DocScrutinizer05right22:16
Woody14619Adds all MCC rules to HFC (including referendum stuff)  adds only one rule to MCC: ammendments to rules require HFC/BoD vote on top of referendum.22:16
chem|stbut not inheriting bylaws as it's rulebook.... that would just be what rob wanted... power over mcc...22:16
Woody14619Wait.. If it's the same body... why would you not want it inherting the same rules? It's the same people.22:16
DocScrutinizer05no, I think there are ways BoD can nuke HFC for good22:16
qwazixchem|st: sent22:17
chem|stty22:17
DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't want to see MCC get nuked by BoD22:17
Woody14619I don't think so... HFC is in the bylaws... to change that it explicitly needs permissions from HFC.22:17
DocScrutinizer05let's draft it the way you sugested, then *everybody+ gives it a thorough check22:18
DocScrutinizer05and we agree on it in 2 days22:18
DocScrutinizer05and publish it22:18
Woody14619K... Well, why not write it up both ways... mine and chem|st's and discuss in e-mail.22:18
Woody14619May be once I see the second version it rings better... who knows. :)22:19
DocScrutinizer05nah, I love yours better. When we make a contest out of it that escapes this meeting, nothing will get decided till next Friday22:19
Woody14619.oO(Besides, I love reading e-mail all weekend.  My provider must think so anyway. ;)22:19
DocScrutinizer05but up to whoever is in charge22:20
Woody14619No, not a contest, just good to hear all sides.  Though it sounds like we nailed the HFC one.22:20
DocScrutinizer05and probably we best publish it _after_ we have equal bodies of 422:20
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: yours sounds more like native speaker to me22:21
DocScrutinizer05but in the end that's wording22:21
Woody14619Need to re-look at bylaws anyway... make sure there's not someting I'm missing that /would/ allow BoD to wack new single body.22:21
DocScrutinizer05I think we got the semantics sorted22:21
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: yes, pretty please do22:22
Woody14619So...  qwazix / chem|st are doing annoucement (elections).22:22
DocScrutinizer05we all should do22:22
Woody14619this moves to e-mail.22:22
Woody14619Why do I feel like we're forgetting a topic?22:22
DocScrutinizer05bank account?22:23
Woody14619Meh... well.. switch is on it's way... (with or without warranty... tbd) so:  \o/22:23
DocScrutinizer05or you officially publishing a fixed date for BoD meeting, in 4 weeks from now?22:24
DocScrutinizer05I believe that when warfare confirms it to me and I see 1GB bandwidth on MTR22:24
DocScrutinizer05(switch)22:24
sixwheeledbeastWhat's the deal with bank accounts and donations?22:25
DocScrutinizer05oh, just in case you missed it: I offered my private paypal account for donations, since obviously the HiFo one is FUBAR22:25
sixwheeledbeastExactly ^^^22:26
DocScrutinizer05some donations already came in22:26
Woody14619Account is only accessable by Rob and Cosimo... PayPal setup was invalid, and Cosimo wound up resigning in part due to presure to fix it without help from only other person with access.22:26
DocScrutinizer05:nod: sounds like the usual story22:27
Woody14619Rob's "fix" for this was to request paypal link on HiFo be removed until new treasurer can resolve PayPal issue.22:27
DocScrutinizer05ROTFL22:27
sixwheeledbeastSo HiFo account is suppose to be for maemo infra? is your private account for maemo infra?22:27
DocScrutinizer05Rob been too eager to get/keep NFP sttaus22:28
DocScrutinizer05status22:28
Woody14619I'd laugh, where it not so sad.22:28
DocScrutinizer05Paypal is nasty for NFP accounts22:28
DocScrutinizer05for normal accounts you need to explain what happens to donations >10kEUR22:28
DocScrutinizer05for NFP you can't claim 10ct donations without proof of NFP status22:29
Woody14619sixwheeledbeast: considering HiFo back-owes Doc a good chunk of change already... I'd say keep a tab and let us know when it's recovered...  Just saying. :P22:29
chem|sthttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9030422:29
chem|stand out22:29
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: I'll publish a balance eventually22:30
DocScrutinizer05can't perform worse than HiFo on that ;-P22:30
sixwheeledbeastI am not saying anything dodgy is going on. It's just HiFo account is suppose to be for maemo-infra. Will it return that way post-BoD elections?22:31
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: and yes,of course my private account is exclusively for maemo22:31
sixwheeledbeastI didn't doubt that at all.22:32
Woody14619sixwheeledbeast: I so hope so.  That's up to who you elect.22:32
DocScrutinizer05let's hope next BoD can sort what went FUBAR with this one regarding accounts22:32
Woody14619For my side, yes... That's what it's always been for/about.22:32
sixwheeledbeast^exactly22:32
Woody14619That, and maybe a chip-in for things like coding competition and the like.22:33
Woody14619(Not that we can supply 100 N9's like Nokia used to, but...)22:33
DocScrutinizer05I'm not too confident that Paypal lets you change account type from NFC to private or business, once you had inbound donations22:33
sixwheeledbeast^Coding Comp I agree.22:34
DocScrutinizer05so only way to reclaim the money from Paypal might be to prove the NFC status of HiFo22:34
sixwheeledbeast^ah Doc is this your "hostmode" donations account? I remember now.22:35
DocScrutinizer05which might explain why Rob got soooo nervous about it22:35
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast^: yes, once been22:35
DocScrutinizer05no hostmode donations since years22:35
DocScrutinizer05there been a total of like 200 bucks22:35
DocScrutinizer05iirc22:36
sixwheeledbeast^I remember you saying that on #maemo22:36
Woody14619openoffice is your friend. Make a spreadsheet. :)22:36
DocScrutinizer05sure, just sucks22:36
Woody14619Or use Vi and make a CSV. ;)22:36
DocScrutinizer05I hate that type of paperwork, that's only reason it's not done yet22:36
Woody14619Only gets harder as you delay... Found that out that hard way too many times.  Now any time I think "damn, I should keep track of this", I instantly start a spread sheet.22:37
Woody14619Rather have data I don't need and can toss than not have it and try to recall it months later.22:37
DocScrutinizer05however I clearly stated that everybody please gives precise purpose of his donation, and I feel free to _not_ transfer donations to HiFo where donor explicitly stated his according intention22:38
* Woody14619 nods.22:38
sixwheeledbeast^/me nods too!22:38
DocScrutinizer05there are guys like reinob who outright refuse to donate to HiFo22:38
Woody14619Paypal should let you download all that as a CSV already, back a year-ish.  comments and all.22:39
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* thedead1440_ just finished reading backlog22:39
sixwheeledbeast^hey thedead1440_22:39
thedead1440_Sorry for not being around22:39
Woody14619download, openoffice, import, done. :)22:40
thedead1440_really was stuck with work till now22:40
Woody14619CRAP22:40
Woody14619That was the thing I was forgetting.22:40
thedead1440_hi sixwheeledbeast^22:40
Woody14619People talked about changing meeting times.....22:40
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: work? :-P22:40
Woody14619be it meeting day or UTC time, to make it easier for others to attend.22:41
Woody14619Wanted to bring that up as a topic.22:41
thedead1440_good progress made today :)22:41
Woody14619Ah well.. next meeting.22:41
Woody14619thedead1440_, I agree. :)22:41
DocScrutinizer05one more thing: what's with a third blade (like Pekka once "promised" to us)?22:42
Woody14619speaking of work.. I should get back to it.  Took my lunch late to coincide with meeting, so... :P22:42
DocScrutinizer05~1kEUR22:42
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thedead1440_Still on my way home; using irc on my N9 so my responses may be slow22:42
thedead1440_DocScrutinizer05, if the Nokia contract is withdrawn would the third blade still be given?22:43
Woody14619We need to figure out this mess on warranty and paying with US funds.... But if we can find hardware, get it into a shopping cart, and have hifo pay for it, I'm all about a 3rd blade.  We really could use it.22:43
thedead1440_or rather Woody14619 could answer that22:43
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DocScrutinizer05we can keep stuff semi-operational with the hw we have now, but there's no more headroom to do any leete new stuff or just put cronjobs to work that are disabled now since 6 months but once were needed22:44
Woody14619But I'm doubtfull we'll get anythng more out of Nokia.  They're less responsive than BoD these days.22:44
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qwazixIf I could drum up kojacker to host another CC can we use some money for that?22:44
thedead1440_Hmm some complains required then? :p22:44
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: that's a critical issue, since donors never expected their donations get used to give awards to other community members22:46
thedead1440_qwazix, do we want to use these funds for a cc or a new round of funds for it? these funds were raised on e pretext of saving the burning roof22:46
qwazixgood points22:46
DocScrutinizer05some might not have objections, other for sure have22:46
qwazixbut shouldn't our treasurer be responsible for *all* money collections?22:46
thedead1440_DocScrutinizer05 indeed and as long as there are a few objections its unfair to divert these funds into a cc22:47
DocScrutinizer05yep22:47
DocScrutinizer05even I would not feel happy with that22:47
DocScrutinizer05we'd need a dedicated fundraiser for that, possibly with hw donations as well22:48
qwazixThat's easy, but who's gonna collect the money22:48
qwazix?22:48
thedead1440_+122:48
DocScrutinizer05for now there's no clear clean path to collect it22:48
thedead1440_qwazix, maybe a new BoD can appoint a treasurer for it22:48
DocScrutinizer05let's hope that sorts out in 5 weeks22:49
qwazixyeah, I was hoping for a 2013 CC22:49
thedead1440_yup22:49
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440_: yep22:49
Woody14619afk work22:49
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: o/ & thanks22:49
thedead1440_see ya Woody1461922:49
* DocScrutinizer05 semi-afk as well22:49
thedead1440_anything else left?22:50
thedead1440_if not i'll be afk too :D22:50
thedead1440_oh and one last point; for the record mine and doc's disagreement last week has been resolved and no bad blood so for those wondering, its all ok :)22:52
M4rtinKwhat about pinging Jolla about the competition ? :)22:52
M4rtinKeven T-Shirts would be nice to have :)22:52
thedead1440_M4rtinK, interesting idea22:52
M4rtinKand they definitely need native apps22:52
thedead1440_maybe kojacker n qwazix could do so unofficially first22:52
Win7Macthanks all for a great meeting!22:53
thedead1440_qwazix, what do you think? you would be able to raise feelers with Jolla for a cc?22:54
thedead1440_would you*22:55
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qwazixM4rtinK, thedead1440: It's no fun to code on emulator...22:55
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qwazixon the other hand including existing devices wouldn't be bad22:55
M4rtinKyeah, but no hardware is likely to show up until late 201322:55
qwazixyeah, that's why I thought we should do it by ourselves this time22:56
M4rtinKmost apps could be run on Nemo for testing on hardware22:56
thedead1440_true too22:56
qwazixwithout silica, it's a hassle22:56
M4rtinKand there is the THPs trick22:56
M4rtinKthat enables making apps that to use either Silica or QtC at runtime22:57
qwazixwhich is against the whole qml philosophy of disposable UIs22:57
M4rtinKdisopasable ui is OK for apps that are done22:57
qwazix(that's why no ifdefs -thankfully- in qml)22:57
M4rtinKand single use22:57
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M4rtinKif you are incrementally adding features22:58
qwazixqml abstarction layer is a bad, bad idea imho22:58
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M4rtinKkeeping a dozen of GUIs in snyc is a bother22:58
M4rtinK*sync22:58
M4rtinKwell, anyway, count me in on any future coding competition :)23:00
qwazixit is but since a good GUI is the biggest asset of an app compromising it for the sake of quick gui development23:00
qwazixis just like using bogosort for sorting23:01
M4rtinKIMHO the idea is to have something running on the platform23:01
M4rtinKand if there is demand make and maintain a dedicated GUI for it23:02
qwazixas for CC, I'll fire up a mail to kojacker, see if his willing23:02
qwazixM4rtink that approach I like23:02
qwazixbut then you can run regular qt-components on sailfish23:02
qwazixno need to abstract silica23:03
thedead1440_qwazix, just take a punt and ask kojacker if he would be willing to contact any Nokia rep too. maybe out of the blue they are willing to give out wp devices or some bounty. you never know with nokia after all ;)23:04
Woody14619k.  on CC, reguardless of where/how it's working, voting system is at their disposal if they want it. :)23:04
merlin1991damn why did nobody ping me?23:04
Woody14619.oO(Win-drana..  blech!)23:05
thedead1440_lol23:05
M4rtinKqwazix: well, yeah, they are there (and I'm already quite adept on bundling them thanks to BB10 & Android if need be :) )23:05
DocScrutinizer05yeah, an extra huge THANKSYOU to Woody14619for creating this awesome actually useable frontend to voting engine23:05
M4rtinKqwazix: but making it look a little bit more native might not be bad - at least for dialogs, menus & pull down menus23:05
Woody14619Speaking of, someone should update the voting booth for BoD elections. ;)23:06
qwazixM4rtinK: I may need some help on the bundling some time, now I know who to pester :P23:06
* Woody14619 nods. Skins come after function though... :) Plus I suck at UI.23:06
qwazix:nod:23:06
M4rtinKqwazix: sure :) I have a kinda working fork of High-DPI QtC :) already one another app using it on BB10 besides Mieru and modRana23:07
Woody14619But I could easily name/div sections and such if someone feels like adapting some css to look maemo-ish23:07
M4rtinKwell, HUGE THANKS to all of you guys !23:07
M4rtinKwithout you, Maemo would already be flat out cold23:07
Woody14619css makes my head hurt.  Its like trying to read stl code... :P23:08
Win7Macsecond that.23:08
Win7Mac* to M4rtinK23:08
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Woody14619Well, thanks back to you.  Without community, there'd be nothing to keep going.  Modrana alone gives purpose to many N900s that would have otherwise gone in the bin long ago.23:09
Woody14619k, work calls again... afk this time for a while probably.  Good day!23:09
M4rtinKThanks ! :D23:09
thedead1440_Woody14619, re Modrana and one openmoko device too23:09
thedead1440_anyway see ya23:10
M4rtinKthere are still people running modRana on FreeRunners :)23:10
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Win7MacWoody14619, thanks attending!23:10
M4rtinKalso seems to be quite popular on OpenPandora23:10
thedead1440_:)23:11
thedead1440_good night/day all23:11
* thedead1440_ is out too23:11
Win7Macgood night23:11
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* Woody14619 just sold his freerunner a month ago... to someone using it as gps/tracker using modrana, so.. yeah. :)23:37
M4rtinKWoody14619: nice ! :)23:38
Woody14619Figured it was collecting dust & someone else had a real use for it, so...23:38
M4rtinKwell, why not :)23:38
M4rtinKmy FreeRunner belong to the school & I need it for occasional testing that modRana still works on it :)23:39
Woody14619Yup.  Mainly paid for shipping and like $40... so not at all what I paid for it  (was a pre-order, had an A5, did the fix, etc)23:39
Woody14619Lol... had I known... :)  Meh.23:39
Woody14619There are others on the forum, so... if you do need one, sure you could find someone to part with one.23:40
Woody14619Lots of the freerunner crowd flocked to the N900.  Birds of a feather (well, close enough for most anyway).23:40
M4rtinKwell, mine still works, so it's fine :)23:41
Woody14619k, back to work with me.  Have a nice weekend.  Thanks again!23:41
M4rtinKwill see if they want it back after exams though :D23:41
M4rtinKthanks and bye :D23:41
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