IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Friday, 2013-05-10

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thedead1440meeting today?20:38
sixwheeledbeastthedead1440: I think so in 20 minutes.20:39
* thedead1440 proceeds to gulp down a couple red bulls :S20:40
thedead1440done... hopefully i don't fall asleep midway though :D20:43
sixwheeledbeastthhedead1440: i'll poke you every now and again :)20:45
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thedead1440time for meeting now :D20:59
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MentalistTraceurQwazix said in an email he might be a bit late, so:21:02
MentalistTraceurqwazix: You there?21:02
thedead1440how about chem|st and DocScrutinizer05?21:02
SD69sixwheeledbeast: can you send your email address?  we need it to setup a council email alias21:04
MentalistTraceurSo, I was utterly swamped with things these last two weeks (as people may have noted by my absense from the last two meetings) - I was literally non-stop having to work on stuff for all of my waking hours for said last two weeks (and waking hours was the vast majority of said time period's hours for me). As such, before we begin I'd just like to apologize for any and all problems or ...21:06
MentalistTraceur... inconveniences my unavailability these last two weeks may have caused.21:06
DocScrutinizer05[2013-05-08 19:35:29] <DocScrutinizer05> hey guys, could please all of you council members send a mail to techstaff@m.o, listing the council you're member in and the mail addr we shall use for the council ML alias21:06
qwazixhi everybody21:07
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: done21:07
DocScrutinizer05yup, noticed that21:08
chem|st*seconds ago...21:08
MentalistTraceurOkay, so it seems everyone is now here, unless I'm missing someone.21:08
MentalistTraceurSince my other two fellow outgoing councilors are also elected to both of the incoming councils, the transition will presumably be fairly smooth.21:09
MentalistTraceurI must admit, I do not recall much of the first Council meeting when I became councilor at the beginning of the outgoing term, so I might miss some formality or other relevant thing to say.21:12
MentalistTraceurAt any rate, I guess: Welcome new Council(s).21:13
MentalistTraceur(There's nothing to really 'hand over' to the incoming Hildon Foundation Council, but might as well welcome it as well, especially given the substantial overlap between the councils' membership.)21:14
DocScrutinizer05yep, welcome from me too, officially this time21:14
DocScrutinizer05first topic: I guess we'll have merged meetings of MCC and HFC for the forseeable future21:15
keriogee, i wonder why21:17
qwazixIf it is appropriate, I'd like to start by asking if anybody believes there is a general goal for this term21:17
thedead1440i believe the main goal is to clear the mess of multiple councils as well as to call for elections of the hifo bod21:17
qwazixIf there's a general to-do list I'd like to suggest looking into harmattan and repositores21:18
DocScrutinizer05+ consolidate and augment ifra maintenance21:18
SD69what is the mess that has to be cleared?21:18
qwazixprobably setting up some kind of harmattan extras21:18
chem|stso we are brainstorming now?21:19
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: sure, as soon as community volunteers show up21:19
qwazixThe mess is that we have a community of which only ~90 members bother to vote and 13-17 of them are official positions21:19
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, if there's a plan easy enough to implements I bet volunteers will show up.21:20
chem|stthat is a general problem21:20
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: I don't think this is the meeting for brainstorming, and I dunno why harm repo has a outstanding priority21:20
thedead1440qwazix: +1 i think council might have to steer any plan for volunteers to step-up21:20
MentalistTraceurAnyway, I think what the handover primarily involves is just us (old council) telling you (new council) what you guys have to do left over from our dealings. For the Hildon Foundation Council, that involves coming up with election eligibility criteria for HiFo, as that is your duty as per the bylaws, but that is not really a thing we are handing off, so much as just something you have ...21:20
MentalistTraceur... to get done. For both Councils, the biggest thing (which has just gotten mentioned) is to figure out what to do with the two-Council situation. Keep in mind that the Board has, legally, a say in that as well. At any rate, that is definitely a major thing to sort, one way or the other.21:20
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: I am zynic21:20
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: I also don't think we can do anything about THAT mess21:21
thedead1440Rzr for one has already been doing his own backups of the repos to ensure nothing is lost while its shut down so its not necessarily true there are no volunteers at all21:21
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: council is not about steering21:21
SD69ahh, we have some idea how to simplify things once we have a communication channel with the new council21:21
DocScrutinizer05council suggests and .. well, councils21:22
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, chem|st, I don't want to discuss harmattan repo now, but it is an outstanding priority as much as infra migration of was for the previous term so I wanted to state it so that it is in people's minds21:22
chem|stqwazix: noted, harmattan is as all other repos to be made available21:23
DocScrutinizer05I think there's a huge difference between harm and maemo infra21:23
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: not in terms of community21:23
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: The purpose and use of the Council can always shift, if that is what the community wants. There may well be a use for the Council(s) steering something or other.21:23
DocScrutinizer05harm community infra ever been community driven21:23
SD69also we have a background explanation that might be helpful for council to know21:23
qwazixPlease let's not discuss this now21:23
chem|stthe time of we are splitting into groups and stuff is over! we need to get our heads out of our asses and start doing useful instead of politics21:24
qwazixIt was just a point to have in mind. If it turns to be insignificant we'll discuss it in another meeting and bury it21:24
DocScrutinizer05sure, MentalistTraceur. If volunteers stand up and shout "steer us", we won't refuse21:24
qwazixchem|st, +121:24
chem|stas noone is doing I do!21:25
chem|stthanks for the warm welcome!21:25
MentalistTraceurchem|st: You'd be surprised how quickly attempts to get useful things done turn into politics as soon as some people disagree on what the useful thing to do is. :)21:25
DocScrutinizer05anyway I state that we obviously finally have a legit Hildon Foundation Council21:26
SD69is sixwheeledbeast afk?21:27
chem|stI hereby start the first meeting of this term's HFC and MCC, and welcome therefor our guests and want to point out that this is not a chitchatter channel so try to keep the noise low during meetings21:27
MentalistTraceurAt any rate, I guess the only other thing I have to add with my "outgoing councilmember" hat on is: I wish the new Councils luck and success with generally helping the community prosper.21:27
* qwazix votes chem|st for chairman21:27
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: +121:27
chem|stas mentioned we have some topics where we need to get on the same page21:28
sixwheeledbeastI am here.21:28
MentalistTraceur(Looks like chem|st just self nominated for the Councils' chairman position.)21:28
DocScrutinizer05da capo21:28
chem|st1. progress and state of migration21:28
DocScrutinizer05I beg to differ21:29
chem|stI beg to be posted21:29
DocScrutinizer051. rules set up by HFC, for election in HiFo21:29
chem|stI constantly run into "sorry out of service" signs21:29
SD69sixwheeledbeast: hi - please forward your email address to me when you get a chance, I don't have it and we need it to setup official communications21:30
MentalistTraceurTo whoever does end up being chair, I hope you are able to do a more consistent job with publishing the meeting minutes than I was able to do.21:30
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: that is nothing quickly discussed on a friday evening21:30
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: you're member in admin channel, so what's the topic you want to discuss publicly now regarding your signs?21:30
DocScrutinizer05Oh, I thought you're listing urgent stuff that needs to get done ASAP, not topics for this evening's discussion21:31
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: I want to have all on the same page, just in the minute I got hacked access back to drop to upload cssu files...21:31
chem|stwhere is xfade gone for example,21:31
DocScrutinizer05now, that's for sure no topic to discuss here and now21:32
DocScrutinizer05xfade is gone21:32
chem|stunreachable forever?21:32
DocScrutinizer05no more interested21:32
chem|sthe should properly handover things...21:32
DocScrutinizer05he missed to do that 3 months ago21:33
chem|stsometime in the near future...21:33
sixwheeledbeastsd69: were do I send an e-mail to?21:33
chem|stsomeone should get a hold on him and at least be a pain until he does something21:33
DocScrutinizer05c'mon you are on maemo-admin channel since months, 24/721:33
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: see above quote21:34
DocScrutinizer05[2013-05-08 19:35:29] <DocScrutinizer05> hey guys, could please all of you council members send a mail to techstaff@m.o, listing the council you're member in and the mail addr we shall use for the council ML alias21:34
SD69sixwheeledbeast: to me, and I'll forward to Tim Samoff who will set up email alias21:34
DocScrutinizer05I dunno what SD69 had in mind, though21:34
qwazixThere are two things we absolutely have to do during this meeting: elect chairmen and inform new members about garage council group and council blog21:35
SD69DocScrutinizer05: Tim Samoff is setting up an email alias for Hildon Foundation Council and he asked me to collect email addresses21:35
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: THANKS! finally a really reasonable point21:35
chem|stthen 1. is handover...21:35
sixwheeledbeastI have just sent one to techstaff@m.o, ok will do.21:36
qwazixSo I'm starting from the second one which is easier21:37
MentalistTraceurqwazix: We elected chair after the first meeting for our term, so while that's good to get done now, it's not strictly speaking a must. But I agree.21:37
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: your mail to techstaff is for, whil SD69 asks for mailaddr for an alias @hildonfoundation.org21:37
qwazix is the council blog21:37
qwazixAFAIK Woody has granted access to new members to the blog already21:38
DocScrutinizer05MCC blog, yes21:38
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: ok, thanks21:38
DocScrutinizer05and yes, woody already managed that21:38
qwazixPlease login at and check if you have the toolbar and can create articles21:38
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619a: thanks for all the incredible help during last weeks, with elections and all21:38
MentalistTraceur(It is through that Council blog that you would post Council announcements and public meeting minutes)21:39
DocScrutinizer05that's mainly relevant for chair21:39
qwazixAnd normally these announcements are crossposted to Community ML and tml21:39
MentalistTraceur(When it works right, it automatically duplicates what is posted to TMO and the maemo mailing list.)21:40
DocScrutinizer05or for the guys standing in for him21:40
qwazix(but that decides by itself if it's gonna do it)21:40
qwazixThe permissions to the council blog are given when one is member of the community council garage member21:40
chem|stdon't have21:40
thedead1440qwazix: i have the toolbar but can't create any articles21:40
merlin1991qwazix: you mean ?21:40
DocScrutinizer05please, we don't need to sort that out now21:41
qwazixmerlin1991, yes21:41
DocScrutinizer05one thing I like to remark: council members are supposed to be available on IRC usually quite frequently and regularly21:42
qwazixchem|st, I added you to the group21:42
qwazixthedead1440, I don't know why, we'll ask woody when he is available21:43
DocScrutinizer05and IRC is also the preferred means to contact techstaff, as 5/6 of you already know21:43
merlin1991qwazix: add me aswell21:43
qwazixmerlin1991, done21:44
chem|ststill nothing21:44
DocScrutinizer05dang, can we check that later please?21:44
qwazixokay, from there I don't know more, we'll have to check with woody21:44
DocScrutinizer05this is council meeting, not maemo admin helpddesk21:44
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, adding to the group is part of handover21:45
DocScrutinizer05sure, but not checking if all works, that can get done later21:45
DocScrutinizer05and probably actually *has* to get done later, since right now we have no time for it21:45
qwazixMentalistTraceur, I am removing you from the group21:46
qwazixOk I think we are done with that.21:47
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: many thanks for volunteering for the annoying role of chair for the ending council term!21:47
qwazixMentalistTraceur, I hope you can still attend meetings this term21:47
DocScrutinizer05yes, please do!21:47
qwazixYour input is always welcome21:47
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: qwazix: Many thanks to the both of you for entrusting me with the role of being chair. And I will do my best to attend the meetings when I am able (which should be relatively often, I hope).21:48
qwazixI believe that HFC should be able to use the same tools for communication as MCC, is everybody okay with that?21:49
DocScrutinizer05ok, so who's new MCC chair?21:49
chem|stgrr expected that idea21:50
DocScrutinizer05fine! :-)21:50
DocScrutinizer05HFC chair?21:50
chem|st(just don't)21:50
qwazixthere's no point for different chairs if we're having merged meetings21:50
qwazixyay, Woody14619a21:51
DocScrutinizer05hi Woody14619a!21:51
chem|sthey wood21:51
Woody14619asorry for being late... crazy day for me in RL.21:51
chem|stok I hereby asign doc to post meeting minutes, right?!21:51
chem|sta +1 anyone?21:51
DocScrutinizer05nah, sorry21:51
chem|stdarn hell21:52
DocScrutinizer05chair's job21:52
Woody14619a.oO(And thus starts the charming rounds of "not it!") :)21:52
chem|stwell fine I'll do..21:52
DocScrutinizer05I would do it if I had a plus insted of minus sign in front of the 300% manpower left over for new duties21:53
chem|stnot that I was forced by stick in school to do that all the time21:53
DocScrutinizer05ok, great! we have a chair for MCC and for HFC21:53
chem|stany objections?21:54
DocScrutinizer05we thanked old chair which happens to be the only council member leaving21:54
thedead1440none from my side21:54
chem|stmerlin1991: please? ;*21:54
qwazixnone whatsoever21:54
DocScrutinizer05we added new members to the relevant groups.21:54
chem|styou lazy basterds21:54
merlin1991no objection21:54
DocScrutinizer05I think formal part is done21:54
DocScrutinizer05until mailing lists are working as expected, please everybody stay joined on council chan21:56
* Woody14619a added all council to existing list in Midgard, but garage is not 100%, just thedead. 21:56
DocScrutinizer05it's our main communication channel, at least for next time21:56
qwazixWoody14619a, I took care of garage21:56
chem|stqwazix: did you burn the VM finally?21:57
qwazixchem|st, ?21:58
chem|stfigure of speach21:58
qwazixoh, at first I thought it was some kind of virtualization terminology :)21:59
qwazixnext topic?22:00
DocScrutinizer05maemo maintenance horrorshow, council MUST reach out to find more maintainers22:00
DocScrutinizer05midgard experience preferred22:02
qwazixIs there such a thing as midgard experience?22:02
chem|stI did not hear of midgard since joining maemo..22:02
DocScrutinizer05well, I heard 3 humans on this planet shall have some22:02
chem|stthat sounds fair22:02
DocScrutinizer05which brings us to the point I already suggested to ponder: paying Nemein to fix stuff they should have fixed while they got paid for that by Nokia22:03
qwazixI can't think of anything better than a post on tmo and ML about that22:03
Woody14619athere are actually qutie a few out there running it, just enough to make a viable community really.22:04
DocScrutinizer05yeah, midgard222:04
DocScrutinizer05not midgard122:04
Woody14619aAny they all updated to midgard2 long ago.22:04
*** Woody14619a is now known as Woody1461922:04
DocScrutinizer05just for the beark: we should ask Henri / bergie about that. How much they call up for a cerain amount of *real* dedicated help with friggin ragnaroek midgard22:05
chem|stso you volunteered to seeking out for someone to port us to midgard2, woody ?!22:05
DocScrutinizer05I have strong sentiments against that idea22:06
Woody14619I think it's something worth testing...22:06
chem|stah you did...22:06
Woody14619Good odds it will fix some of the busted stuff...  But I'd rather do a test migration first, and see how it works.  But that's all admin chatter.22:07
DocScrutinizer05evidently so far there been busted stuff onyl that would NOT get fixed by migrating22:09
Woody14619?? Really? I think most of it would.  All the repligard stuff, for example.22:09
DocScrutinizer05you sure about that?22:10
Woody14619Which is 90% of what's still broken.22:10
DocScrutinizer05you sure about that?22:10
Woody14619I'm sure that Midgard2 has a repligard rebuild command, that our version of Midgard1 does not have.22:10
DocScrutinizer05the garage-all permissions definitely not getting fixed by any migration22:10
Woody14619No.. But then we would have been able to see the issue earlier, had asgard worked at all... but it didn't because all the guids were missing in repligard. (And it was an outdated version to boot.)22:11
DocScrutinizer05the versuon mismatch for asgard would not exactly be something that gets magically fixed either, rather we'd face new similar problems on midgard222:11
DocScrutinizer05on top of our existing shit22:11
Woody14619Which is another issue that would be fixed:  Mismatched and uninstalled components.22:12
Woody14619Yes, it does.Since we've be in control of installing, we can install a known working set of modules as suggested by Midgard2 docs...22:12
DocScrutinizer05which brings me to 3: maemo customizations, which maybe don't migrate at all22:12
Woody14619Anyway... this is all admin stuff...22:12
chem|stcan we stop the technical stuff?22:12
DocScrutinizer05I didn't start midgard2 migration topic22:13
DocScrutinizer05I said we need mor manpower22:13
chem|stI said you will find us some Mr. Seeker22:13
DocScrutinizer05we can't sustain this level of maintenance for another 3 months (my guess), without more maintainers to hlp22:14
DocScrutinizer05and I also announce that I'm afk in ~10min22:14
thedead1440shouldn't there be a midgard mailing list where we may be able to request for assistance as in getting additional manpower? just saying as haven't searched for it...22:15
chem|stso what else will we need to look after this term?22:15
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: who knows22:15
chem|stwell, what baout jolla, did they turn us down for good?22:16
Woody14619Key elements for HFC are the criteria for membership and elections.  That, IMHO, is probably the single largest item.22:16
DocScrutinizer05yes, I already mentioned that. nevertheless thanks for bringing it up again, Woody1461922:16
chem|stwhat terms does us law have for this type of organisation?22:17
Woody14619Not sure what you mean chem|st...  can you clarify?22:17
chem|stin germany ther is a pretty clear rule for registered NPOs or charities and stuff, what is it with this one?22:18
chem|stor would that be bod?22:18
DocScrutinizer05when you mean HiFo, then i'm sure SD69 will joyfully provide publicly distributable copies of all the relevant law texts22:18
DocScrutinizer05and explain what they mean for us22:18
Woody14619Hildon Foundation, at the moment, is a standard corporation from what I understand.22:19
chem|stso hfc will be something in between bod and community?22:20
DocScrutinizer05ooh, while we're at HiFo already: could *somebody* please update the donation page? it hasn't seen updates since >2 months22:20
DocScrutinizer05that's embarrassing22:20
Woody14619chem|st: Much as MCC was the channel between Nokia and commmunity, yes.22:20
chem|stok so there is actually not a single reason why to have one?!22:21
Woody14619to have one what?22:21
DocScrutinizer05and actually I want to hear about *current* financial situation of HiFo22:21
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, were there donations last couple of months? I see people whining that they can't donate22:21
chem|stor mcc22:21
Woody14619HFC?  Yes... there is... for one it's documented in the bylaws for the Foundation.22:21
SD69sorry, was afk22:22
chem|stWoody14619: I mean sane reason22:22
chem|stwe do not NEED both...22:22
MentalistTraceurchem|st: That's basically why we wanted to merge them last term to begin with.22:22
SD69we hopefully will have a solution for the two councils thing soon22:23
chem|stso skip mcc as there is no more nokia... or change bylaws to have mcc as the official council...22:23
Woody14619There is a valid reason.  As for sane, it's arguable, yes.22:23
chem|stfor this term one would be integrated to the other...22:23
chem|stWoody14619: thanks22:23
SD69when alias gets set up, we will send Nokia contract to Hildon Foundation Council, which should help explain things22:24
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: damn, we discussed that ad nauseum during last 8 weeks22:24
DocScrutinizer05and referendum and elections had one major goal: merge MCC and HFC22:25
SD69let's not project personal opinions onto election22:25
Woody14619At least person wise.22:25
DocScrutinizer05let's not start posts with "let's <do something>" here22:26
DocScrutinizer05for anybody able to read: the referndum text is still available on wiki22:28
DocScrutinizer05as are all the threads on tmo22:28
MentalistTraceurSD69: That's not a personal opinion, that was indeed the goal of the referendum and elections, at least from our end. Whether you think it was valid, legally sound, or whatever, is a different matter than what the goal was, and at least for us, that was the goal.22:29
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: thanks!22:29
chem|stso what is the status on funds?22:30
thedead1440SD69: ^^^ you haven't answered about the funds yet...22:31
SD69approximately $4,000 in funds22:31
SD69but no treasurer22:31
chem|stI got a bitcoin address ready (which I already told someone >2month ago...) and if you wish a hifo one... or anything you like within 6 characters22:31
thedead1440why do people still receive an error when donating to HiFo? How long does HiFo need to resolve minor issues for donors?22:32
chem|stthere is no donation button on the frontpage... ?!22:33
SD69thedead1440: I don't have the answer to that question; ryan and Tim know about the issue22:33
DocScrutinizer05who is ryan?22:33
DocScrutinizer05and what got Tim to do with that?22:33
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: GA22:33
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: aah sure, thanks22:34
SD69Tim is admin22:34
DocScrutinizer05and admin manages the bank accounts?22:34
thedead1440SD69: legally Tim holds no responsibility so how is managing things without the knowledge of the community?22:35
thedead1440s/is /is he/22:35
DocScrutinizer05particularly things about bank accounts22:35
DocScrutinizer05that reject donations22:35
merlin1991do we have anything todo now, or can we wrap this up? I should be going any minute now22:36
thedead1440or is it now come to the point where you can on your own decide who does what without community consultation? Does Woody14619 have any input on this matter?22:36
DocScrutinizer05does naybody have access and shared control to the bank accounts?22:37
Woody14619I attempted to resolve the PayPal -> Bank issue, but the bank refused to deal with me, as my name was not on the account.22:37
DocScrutinizer05is there a proper 4-eyes principle installed?22:37
thedead1440so Woody14619 who's name is on the account?22:37
SD69thedead1440: Tim manages website and donate button on website; as to bank accounts, like I said there is no Treasurer22:37
DocScrutinizer05whose names (plural) I HOPE!22:38
SD69at the current time22:38
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Woody14619thedead1440: Last I knew, SD69 and Cosimo.22:39
thedead1440SD69: no treasurer doesn't mean nobody takes responsibility in the interim! i hope you are not serious about lacking any knowledge about problems with paypal account of hifo when you are 1 of the 3 remaining directors handling COMMUNITY's donations!22:39
DocScrutinizer05so who has access to bank accounts at all, right now?22:39
thedead1440Woody14619: that's irresponsible. How can Cosimo, who has resigned, have access to it still? And why wasn't your name added to it till now?22:39
DocScrutinizer05when is next HiFo meeting where that stuff MUST get sorted FOR GOOD?22:41
Woody14619thedead1440, I'd direct you to the last HiFo meeting minutes... but those have not yet been posted.22:41
* DocScrutinizer05 mumbles that MCC at least has IRC chanlogs22:42
SD69Woody14619: the minutes were emailed and I'm waiting for approval to post them.22:42
DocScrutinizer05again: is there next HiFo meeting scheduled arlready?22:43
Woody14619??  They were?  When?22:43
* thedead1440 is very concerned at SD69's hands-off approach when dealing with community's donations but hyperactive approach when dealing with his own position. 22:43
SD69Woody14619: they were emailed April 2822:44
SD69thedead1440: I am not the treasurer who is in charge of donations - I am Secretary22:45
thedead1440so? you leave community's donations vulnerable? why haven't you taken steps to remove Cosimo's name and add Woody14619's name to the bank account instead?22:47
DocScrutinizer05AIUI you're the only one that has access to HiFo bank accounts, THAT MUST CHANGE! you might get hit by a bus (or a s22:47
thedead1440as a director this falls under your purview especially with the lack of a treasurer22:48
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: Your message got cut off at "(or a s"22:48
Woody14619SD69: Ah I see why I missed them.  I've been getting duplicates of everything, as 90% of e-mail has been to me and to board@.  On search for minutes one of the many duplicates titled "Re: Fwd: Re: Re: Nok​ia contract and maem​o community council​"  does in deed have the minutes.  I'll review them today...22:48
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: I hit return instead of backspace22:48
SD69thedead1440: it was discussed in the last Board meeting, and I wasn't asked to delete Cosimo or add Woody at this time22:49
thedead1440Woody14619: you didn't push to be included in the bank account?22:49
DocScrutinizer05and of course Cosimo has to get access revoked, when he stepped down. Immediately!22:49
kerioi thought that that was a given :s22:51
DocScrutinizer05I doubt the "I haven't been asked to <take care about urgent affairs>" approach is any bearable for a BoD member22:51
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: +122:51
MentalistTraceurSD69: Okay, normally I'm not one to join the direct confrontational stuff, but "I wasn't asked" is just downright bad. It should be a self-evident course of action for you as someone in position of responsibility over the matter.22:52
DocScrutinizer05I officially announce my concern about misbehaviour regarding that handling of bank accounts22:52
thedead1440can HFC direct the BoD to do the necessary immediately?22:52
MentalistTraceur(hit enter early)22:52
chem|stwho is next treasurer?22:53
SD69MentalistTraceur:  I am 1 of 3 Directors22:53
MentalistTraceurthedead1440: Not with any binding authority, no.22:53
thedead1440SD69: for a period of time you were the ONLY director and you left the situation as is!22:53
SD69thedead1440: when I was the only director, Cosimo was still treasurer22:54
DocScrutinizer05I suggest MFC unanimously instructs BoD to *IMMEDIATELY* fix that issue22:54
DocScrutinizer05(as unanimously as it gets with sixwheeled not here)22:55
MentalistTraceurSD69: And? You could be one of a milliod directors. One: you are the only one in the position to enact the change in question, since the bank apparently doesn't deal with people unless their name is on the account, which is typical policy for banks, and it would be reasonable to think that would be the case for any bank, especially for a legally learned person such as yourself.22:55
chem|stSD69: can we have that figured out by next friday please?22:55
SD69chemist: have what figured out?22:56
chem|stthat bank account22:56
MentalistTraceurTwo: even if you ignore point one, that's besides the point. As a person in a position to do something about a problem, and entrusted with responsibility over it,22:56
MentalistTraceurregardless of whether others are also in that position,22:56
MentalistTraceurmy prior statement applies to you.22:56
chem|stcan you please stop discussing the obvious?22:56
SD69chemist: it was decided that I should make the changes when the next treasurer is appointed22:57
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: that call won't work with Mr RM Bauer22:57
chem|stI think it was made clear that this was missmanaged22:57
chem|stSD69: I just asked who is the next treasurer...22:57
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chem|stand who is his second?22:57
MentalistTraceurSaying "I am one of three directors" is like a parent defending not bothering to feed a child by pointing out they are only one of two parents when someone tells them it was their responsibility.22:58
SD69I don't know..22:58
* MentalistTraceur is done with that now.22:58
chem|stSD69: then have two people not BOD by next friday!22:58
SD69chemist: what?22:59
chem|stor have some two of BOD and HFC sign for the account22:59
chem|stSD69: you can read right?22:59
chem|stthis now gets rediculous22:59
qwazixchem|st, it sadly is ridiculous in the same way for months23:00
chem|styou have access to the account right?23:00
DocScrutinizer05I want to see Cosimo's name removed an another (at least one) well known and trusted name added to signature list of all bank accounts, til... ok chem|st is polite and kind, next friday23:00
keriobanks open on monday23:00
qwazixI asked for the bank account number, not access, exactly six months ago23:00
chem|stand for god's sake get the admin to update the site23:01
chem|stSD69: 5 working days should be enough to get a name removed and another added23:01
chem|stor at least getting the paperwork for it done...23:02
chem|stwhat bank is it at?23:02
DocScrutinizer05afk again?23:03
Woody14619The bank holding the account is at First Niagra.  I have the banking details, to some degree.23:03
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: is that usual behaviour again, of SD69?23:04
Woody14619I'll intnetionally not reply to that...   :D23:05
thedead1440SD69: why are you silent?23:05
SD69I said before I will do what the BoD asks me to do about the bank account23:05
DocScrutinizer05I'm starting to feel seriously concerned about the HiFo funds23:05
kerio...the BoD?23:05
* thedead1440 feels SD69 likes playing games instead of getting work done23:06
chem|sthfc you mean?23:06
DocScrutinizer05YOU ARE THE BoD!!!! 1/3 of it!!23:06
Woody14619Perhapse a reasonable approach would be to have all Directors have access.23:06
chem|stor woody to tell you?23:06
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: please tell him what to do!23:07
Woody14619chem|st, If that worked, we'd have had parallel elections...23:07
chem|stdirectors should hav something like you need two to sign something of23:07
SD69OK guys, any other topics?23:08
DocScrutinizer05[2013-05-10 21:37:29] <DocScrutinizer05> is there a proper 4-eyes principle installed?23:08
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: no23:08
chem|stwhy are you asking?23:08
chem|stI got to go in a few minutes23:08
DocScrutinizer05because you said there should be23:08
DocScrutinizer05and I am already gone since 20 min, and nobody answered yetz when next HiFo meeting will be23:09
thedead1440SD69: community donations is an important topic to resolve and you want to brush it indefinitely?23:09
chem|stSD69: do the paperwork for getting cosimo off the account and woody on it as soon as friday, then you do not need to do anything anymore and sit back and watch...23:09
SD69thedead1440: I agree donations are an important topic to resolve23:10
chem|stthedead1440: I will have setup BTC donations on talk by monday, sick of it by now!23:10
keriochem|st: converting immediately to some currency, or keeping them as BTC?23:10
kerioboth have their pros and cons23:10
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: you're located in USA?23:10
Woody14619DocScrutinizer05, Yes.23:11
chem|stfirst niagara sounds canadian...23:11
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: you're an US citicen?23:11
Woody14619DocScrutinizer05, again, yes.  And there are First Niagra branches near me.23:11
DocScrutinizer05I'd like to ask you to check legal aspects23:12
Woody14619chem|st, Niagra falls is actually on the boarder of US and Canada, split down the middle by the "dividing line" as it were.23:12
DocScrutinizer05I see noting getting done til next friday23:12
chem|stthe falls and the town is in canada, the us have the american falls...23:12
DocScrutinizer05and I'd urgently ask YOU to do *something* on monday in 9 days, in that case23:13
Woody14619DocScrutinizer05, in what reguard?  Legal aspects of what?23:13
DocScrutinizer05of taking a bank account for hostage23:13
chem|stto get the account reorganised by legal force23:13
chem|stas SD69 is refusing to do anything by now...23:14
Woody14619DocScrutinizer05, I've already attempted to deal with First Niarga to resolve the linkage issues when I first came in.  First Niagra will not recognize me without my name on the account.23:14
DocScrutinizer05I didn't talk about bank, I talked about police23:14
chem|stget it at least frozen23:15
thedead1440SD69: when is the next HiFo meeting? Why on earth don't you respond to questions?23:15
DocScrutinizer05this is unbelievable!23:15
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chem|stwb sixwheeledbeast23:16
sixwheeledbeasthmm, I thought all went silent. thank chem|st :)23:17
* sixwheeledbeast checks logs23:17
Woody14619I would much prefer to see this resolved in house.  SD69, lets do whatever paperwork is needed to get *all* directors on the account, and Cosimo off.23:18
Woody14619When the next meeting was supposed to be 2 weeks away, I figured the issue would be resolved soon enough.  But that date has slipped several times now.  It needs action.23:19
thedead1440why isn't a meeting held Woody14619? is SD69 blocking it?23:19
DocScrutinizer05IMMEDIATE action23:19
DocScrutinizer05and 2/3 of BoD are enough to do it23:20
DocScrutinizer05even without public recorded meeting!23:20
thedead1440so SD69 you have decided to just remain silent?23:20
DocScrutinizer05the heck, when roof burns, SD69 will probably wait til next BoD meeting to decide unanimously who's going to call the fire brigarde23:21
* sixwheeledbeast is half way through logs, but agrees about bank a/c situ23:21
thedead1440By-laws: >>>Expulsion shall be solely by way of review and vote of a majority of the Foundation Council, which23:23
thedead1440review and vote must occur subsequent to prior written notice of at least fifteen days by the23:23
Woody14619thedead1440, Jim has been lax in replying to meeting requests.  Rob has declined to attend meetings where all 3 of us are not available to be present.23:23
thedead1440Foundation Council to the membership and provide an opportunity for member comments.<<< Can't HFC just expel SD69 due to his conduct being against the interests of the foundation and community?23:23
thedead1440Woody14619: ah so SD69 has tried to just be the spoiler as usual...23:23
keriook, *that* is definetely malicious in intent23:24
thedead1440since there is a HFC now and i think all of them agree that the current situation is unbearable a vote should be held and a written notice on tmo+mailing list should suffix.23:25
chem|stSD69: please lookup what jailtime you'd get for fraud and if you keep your bar... and reconsider jsut doing what you were asked for...23:26
chem|stthedead1440: no need for a vote or anything, by his own bylaws he has to do what the chairman askes him to do in this regard...23:27
* sixwheeledbeast has caught up now :-\23:28
chem|stkerio: for now keeping, saves us any hassle with banks and stuff23:28
DocScrutinizer05ok, guys. I'm definitely out. I just hope RM Bauer grows a brain23:28
thedead1440chem|st: yes but to expel him the HFC can act without requiring the BoD's approval; solves the issue once and for all instead of his constant hiding behind words and "afk" comments23:28
DocScrutinizer05tol next tuesday the latest, to get shit sorted til Friday23:28
chem|stdoes not solve that he is not doing what he is asked for23:29
chem|stwe will see on friday, we can expel him and get the police involved if he is unresponsive anyhow...23:30
chem|stI got to go now!23:31
DocScrutinizer05particularly removing names from signing list that are clearly a threat is NO WAY anything that may get delayed by only one week, not even a few days. and it needs no meeting or anything to get done23:31
DocScrutinizer05cya guys, bye chem|st23:32
sixwheeledbeastbye chem|st o/23:32
MentalistTraceurBye chem|st23:33
thedead1440hfc should post an expulsion notice on mailing list+tmo as it requires a 15-day waiting time before a vote and the procedure may get delayed if we wait till next friday. if he does the necessary, the notice can be withdrawn.23:33
qwazixI'm out for a few minutes23:39
sixwheeledbeastI am going afk for a while23:40
keriodid bauer just... leave?23:52

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