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| thedead1440 | meeting today? | 20:38 |
|---|---|---|
| sixwheeledbeast | thedead1440: I think so in 20 minutes. | 20:39 |
| * thedead1440 proceeds to gulp down a couple red bulls :S | 20:40 | |
| merlin1991 | eww | 20:41 |
| thedead1440 | done... hopefully i don't fall asleep midway though :D | 20:43 |
| sixwheeledbeast | thhedead1440: i'll poke you every now and again :) | 20:45 |
| thedead1440 | hehe | 20:45 |
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| thedead1440 | time for meeting now :D | 20:59 |
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| SD69 | hello | 21:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | Hello. | 21:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | Qwazix said in an email he might be a bit late, so: | 21:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: You there? | 21:02 |
| thedead1440 | how about chem|st and DocScrutinizer05? | 21:02 |
| chem|st | hi | 21:04 |
| SD69 | sixwheeledbeast: can you send your email address? we need it to setup a council email alias | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi | 21:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | So, I was utterly swamped with things these last two weeks (as people may have noted by my absense from the last two meetings) - I was literally non-stop having to work on stuff for all of my waking hours for said last two weeks (and waking hours was the vast majority of said time period's hours for me). As such, before we begin I'd just like to apologize for any and all problems or ... | 21:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... inconveniences my unavailability these last two weeks may have caused. | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-08 19:35:29] <DocScrutinizer05> hey guys, could please all of you council members send a mail to techstaff@m.o, listing the council you're member in and the mail addr we shall use for the council ML alias | 21:06 |
| qwazix | hi everybody | 21:07 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: done | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup, noticed that | 21:08 |
| chem|st | *seconds ago... | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, so it seems everyone is now here, unless I'm missing someone. | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | Since my other two fellow outgoing councilors are also elected to both of the incoming councils, the transition will presumably be fairly smooth. | 21:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | I must admit, I do not recall much of the first Council meeting when I became councilor at the beginning of the outgoing term, so I might miss some formality or other relevant thing to say. | 21:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | At any rate, I guess: Welcome new Council(s). | 21:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | (There's nothing to really 'hand over' to the incoming Hildon Foundation Council, but might as well welcome it as well, especially given the substantial overlap between the councils' membership.) | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, welcome from me too, officially this time | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first topic: I guess we'll have merged meetings of MCC and HFC for the forseeable future | 21:15 |
| kerio | gee, i wonder why | 21:17 |
| qwazix | If it is appropriate, I'd like to start by asking if anybody believes there is a general goal for this term | 21:17 |
| thedead1440 | i believe the main goal is to clear the mess of multiple councils as well as to call for elections of the hifo bod | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 21:17 |
| qwazix | If there's a general to-do list I'd like to suggest looking into harmattan and meego.com repositores | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | + consolidate and augment ifra maintenance | 21:18 |
| SD69 | what is the mess that has to be cleared? | 21:18 |
| qwazix | probably setting up some kind of harmattan extras | 21:18 |
| chem|st | so we are brainstorming now? | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: sure, as soon as community volunteers show up | 21:19 |
| qwazix | The mess is that we have a community of which only ~90 members bother to vote and 13-17 of them are official positions | 21:19 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, if there's a plan easy enough to implements I bet volunteers will show up. | 21:20 |
| chem|st | that is a general problem | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: I don't think this is the meeting for brainstorming, and I dunno why harm repo has a outstanding priority | 21:20 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: +1 i think council might have to steer any plan for volunteers to step-up | 21:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I think what the handover primarily involves is just us (old council) telling you (new council) what you guys have to do left over from our dealings. For the Hildon Foundation Council, that involves coming up with election eligibility criteria for HiFo, as that is your duty as per the bylaws, but that is not really a thing we are handing off, so much as just something you have ... | 21:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... to get done. For both Councils, the biggest thing (which has just gotten mentioned) is to figure out what to do with the two-Council situation. Keep in mind that the Board has, legally, a say in that as well. At any rate, that is definitely a major thing to sort, one way or the other. | 21:20 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: I am zynic | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: I also don't think we can do anything about THAT mess | 21:21 |
| thedead1440 | Rzr for one has already been doing his own backups of the meego.com repos to ensure nothing is lost while its shut down so its not necessarily true there are no volunteers at all | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: council is not about steering | 21:21 |
| SD69 | ahh, we have some idea how to simplify things once we have a communication channel with the new council | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council suggests and .. well, councils | 21:22 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, chem|st, I don't want to discuss harmattan repo now, but it is an outstanding priority as much as infra migration of m.org was for the previous term so I wanted to state it so that it is in people's minds | 21:22 |
| chem|st | qwazix: noted, harmattan is as all other repos to be made available | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think there's a huge difference between harm and maemo infra | 21:23 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: not in terms of community | 21:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: The purpose and use of the Council can always shift, if that is what the community wants. There may well be a use for the Council(s) steering something or other. | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | harm community infra ever been community driven | 21:23 |
| SD69 | also we have a background explanation that might be helpful for council to know | 21:23 |
| qwazix | Please let's not discuss this now | 21:23 |
| chem|st | the time of we are splitting into groups and stuff is over! we need to get our heads out of our asses and start doing useful instead of politics | 21:24 |
| qwazix | It was just a point to have in mind. If it turns to be insignificant we'll discuss it in another meeting and bury it | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, MentalistTraceur. If volunteers stand up and shout "steer us", we won't refuse | 21:24 |
| qwazix | chem|st, +1 | 21:24 |
| chem|st | as noone is doing I do! | 21:25 |
| chem|st | thanks for the warm welcome! | 21:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | chem|st: You'd be surprised how quickly attempts to get useful things done turn into politics as soon as some people disagree on what the useful thing to do is. :) | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I state that we obviously finally have a legit Hildon Foundation Council | 21:26 |
| SD69 | is sixwheeledbeast afk? | 21:27 |
| chem|st | I hereby start the first meeting of this term's HFC and MCC, and welcome therefor our guests and want to point out that this is not a chitchatter channel so try to keep the noise low during meetings | 21:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | At any rate, I guess the only other thing I have to add with my "outgoing councilmember" hat on is: I wish the new Councils luck and success with generally helping the community prosper. | 21:27 |
| * qwazix votes chem|st for chairman | 21:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: +1 | 21:27 |
| merlin1991 | +1 | 21:28 |
| chem|st | as mentioned we have some topics where we need to get on the same page | 21:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I am here. | 21:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Looks like chem|st just self nominated for the Councils' chairman position.) | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | da capo | 21:28 |
| chem|st | 1. progress and state of migration | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I beg to differ | 21:29 |
| chem|st | I beg to be posted | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1. rules set up by HFC, for election in HiFo | 21:29 |
| chem|st | I constantly run into "sorry out of service" signs | 21:29 |
| SD69 | sixwheeledbeast: hi - please forward your email address to me when you get a chance, I don't have it and we need it to setup official communications | 21:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | To whoever does end up being chair, I hope you are able to do a more consistent job with publishing the meeting minutes than I was able to do. | 21:30 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: that is nothing quickly discussed on a friday evening | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: you're member in admin channel, so what's the topic you want to discuss publicly now regarding your signs? | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Oh, I thought you're listing urgent stuff that needs to get done ASAP, not topics for this evening's discussion | 21:31 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: I want to have all on the same page, just in the minute I got hacked access back to drop to upload cssu files... | 21:31 |
| chem|st | where is xfade gone for example, | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now, that's for sure no topic to discuss here and now | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xfade is gone | 21:32 |
| chem|st | unreachable forever? | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no more interested | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unresponsive | 21:32 |
| chem|st | he should properly handover things... | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NOW?? | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he missed to do that 3 months ago | 21:33 |
| chem|st | sometime in the near future... | 21:33 |
| sixwheeledbeast | sd69: were do I send an e-mail to? | 21:33 |
| chem|st | someone should get a hold on him and at least be a pain until he does something | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | c'mon you are on maemo-admin channel since months, 24/7 | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: see above quote | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-08 19:35:29] <DocScrutinizer05> hey guys, could please all of you council members send a mail to techstaff@m.o, listing the council you're member in and the mail addr we shall use for the council ML alias | 21:34 |
| SD69 | sixwheeledbeast: to me, nybauer@gmail.com and I'll forward to Tim Samoff who will set up email alias | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno what SD69 had in mind, though | 21:34 |
| qwazix | There are two things we absolutely have to do during this meeting: elect chairmen and inform new members about garage council group and council blog | 21:35 |
| SD69 | DocScrutinizer05: Tim Samoff is setting up an email alias for Hildon Foundation Council and he asked me to collect email addresses | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: THANKS! finally a really reasonable point | 21:35 |
| chem|st | then 1. is handover... | 21:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I have just sent one to techstaff@m.o, ok will do. | 21:36 |
| qwazix | So I'm starting from the second one which is easier | 21:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: We elected chair after the first meeting for our term, so while that's good to get done now, it's not strictly speaking a must. But I agree. | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: your mail to techstaff is for hildoncouncil@maemo.org, whil SD69 asks for mailaddr for an alias @hildonfoundation.org | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui | 21:37 |
| qwazix | http://maemo.org/community/council/ is the council blog | 21:37 |
| qwazix | AFAIK Woody has granted access to new members to the blog already | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MCC blog, yes | 21:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: ok, thanks | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, woody already managed that | 21:38 |
| qwazix | Please login at maemo.org and check if you have the toolbar and can create articles | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619a: thanks for all the incredible help during last weeks, with elections and all | 21:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | (It is through that Council blog that you would post Council announcements and public meeting minutes) | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's mainly relevant for chair | 21:39 |
| qwazix | And normally these announcements are crossposted to Community ML and tml | 21:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | (When it works right, it automatically duplicates what is posted to TMO and the maemo mailing list.) | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or for the guys standing in for him | 21:40 |
| qwazix | (but that decides by itself if it's gonna do it) | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:40 |
| qwazix | The permissions to the council blog are given when one is member of the community council garage member | 21:40 |
| chem|st | don't have | 21:40 |
| thedead1440 | qwazix: i have the toolbar but can't create any articles | 21:40 |
| merlin1991 | qwazix: you mean https://garage.maemo.org/projects/council/ ? | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please, we don't need to sort that out now | 21:41 |
| qwazix | merlin1991, yes | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one thing I like to remark: council members are supposed to be available on IRC usually quite frequently and regularly | 21:42 |
| qwazix | chem|st, I added you to the group | 21:42 |
| qwazix | thedead1440, I don't know why, we'll ask woody when he is available | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and IRC is also the preferred means to contact techstaff, as 5/6 of you already know | 21:43 |
| merlin1991 | qwazix: add me aswell | 21:43 |
| qwazix | merlin1991, done | 21:44 |
| chem|st | still nothing | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, can we check that later please? | 21:44 |
| qwazix | okay, from there I don't know more, we'll have to check with woody | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is council meeting, not maemo admin helpddesk | 21:44 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, adding to the group is part of handover | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, but not checking if all works, that can get done later | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and probably actually *has* to get done later, since right now we have no time for it | 21:45 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, I am removing you from the group | 21:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* | 21:46 |
| qwazix | Ok I think we are done with that. | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: many thanks for volunteering for the annoying role of chair for the ending council term! | 21:47 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, I hope you can still attend meetings this term | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, please do! | 21:47 |
| qwazix | Your input is always welcome | 21:47 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: qwazix: Many thanks to the both of you for entrusting me with the role of being chair. And I will do my best to attend the meetings when I am able (which should be relatively often, I hope). | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 21:49 |
| qwazix | I believe that HFC should be able to use the same tools for communication as MCC, is everybody okay with that? | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, so who's new MCC chair? | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st? | 21:49 |
| qwazix | +1 | 21:50 |
| chem|st | grr expected that idea | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine! :-) | 21:50 |
| qwazix | :) | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HFC chair? | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st? | 21:50 |
| chem|st | (just don't) | 21:50 |
| chem|st | damn | 21:50 |
| qwazix | there's no point for different chairs if we're having merged meetings | 21:50 |
| Woody14619a | o/ | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:50 |
| qwazix | yay, Woody14619a | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi Woody14619a! | 21:51 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :nod: | 21:51 |
| chem|st | hey wood | 21:51 |
| Woody14619a | sorry for being late... crazy day for me in RL. | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np | 21:51 |
| chem|st | ok I hereby asign doc to post meeting minutes, right?! | 21:51 |
| chem|st | :) | 21:51 |
| qwazix | lol | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WUT? | 21:51 |
| chem|st | a +1 anyone? | 21:51 |
| thedead1440 | +1 | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, sorry | 21:51 |
| chem|st | darn hell | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chair's job | 21:52 |
| Woody14619a | .oO(And thus starts the charming rounds of "not it!") :) | 21:52 |
| chem|st | well fine I'll do.. | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I would do it if I had a plus insted of minus sign in front of the 300% manpower left over for new duties | 21:53 |
| qwazix | \o/ | 21:53 |
| chem|st | not that I was forced by stick in school to do that all the time | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, great! we have a chair for MCC and for HFC | 21:53 |
| chem|st | any objections? | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we thanked old chair which happens to be the only council member leaving | 21:54 |
| thedead1440 | none from my side | 21:54 |
| chem|st | merlin1991: please? ;* | 21:54 |
| qwazix | none whatsoever | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we added new members to the relevant groups. | 21:54 |
| chem|st | you lazy basterds | 21:54 |
| merlin1991 | no objection | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think formal part is done | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | until mailing lists are working as expected, please everybody stay joined on council chan | 21:56 |
| * Woody14619a added all council to existing list in Midgard, but garage is not 100%, just thedead. | 21:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's our main communication channel, at least for next time | 21:56 |
| qwazix | Woody14619a, I took care of garage | 21:56 |
| chem|st | qwazix: did you burn the VM finally? | 21:57 |
| qwazix | chem|st, ? | 21:58 |
| chem|st | figure of speach | 21:58 |
| chem|st | speech | 21:58 |
| qwazix | oh, at first I thought it was some kind of virtualization terminology :) | 21:59 |
| qwazix | next topic? | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo maintenance horrorshow, council MUST reach out to find more maintainers | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | midgard experience preferred | 22:02 |
| qwazix | Is there such a thing as midgard experience? | 22:02 |
| chem|st | I did not hear of midgard since joining maemo.. | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I heard 3 humans on this planet shall have some | 22:02 |
| chem|st | that sounds fair | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which brings us to the point I already suggested to ponder: paying Nemein to fix stuff they should have fixed while they got paid for that by Nokia | 22:03 |
| qwazix | I can't think of anything better than a post on tmo and ML about that | 22:03 |
| Woody14619a | there are actually qutie a few out there running it, just enough to make a viable community really. | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, midgard2 | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not midgard1 | 22:04 |
| Woody14619a | Any they all updated to midgard2 long ago. | 22:04 |
| Woody14619a | yup. | 22:04 |
| *** Woody14619a is now known as Woody14619 | 22:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbiab | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just for the beark: we should ask Henri / bergie about that. How much they call up for a cerain amount of *real* dedicated help with friggin ragnaroek midgard | 22:05 |
| chem|st | so you volunteered to seeking out for someone to port us to midgard2, woody ?! | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have strong sentiments against that idea | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | I think it's something worth testing... | 22:06 |
| chem|st | ah you did... | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | Good odds it will fix some of the busted stuff... But I'd rather do a test migration first, and see how it works. But that's all admin chatter. | 22:07 |
| chem|st | +1 | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | evidently so far there been busted stuff onyl that would NOT get fixed by migrating | 22:09 |
| Woody14619 | ?? Really? I think most of it would. All the repligard stuff, for example. | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you sure about that? | 22:10 |
| Woody14619 | Which is 90% of what's still broken. | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you sure about that? | 22:10 |
| Woody14619 | I'm sure that Midgard2 has a repligard rebuild command, that our version of Midgard1 does not have. | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the garage-all permissions definitely not getting fixed by any migration | 22:10 |
| Woody14619 | No.. But then we would have been able to see the issue earlier, had asgard worked at all... but it didn't because all the guids were missing in repligard. (And it was an outdated version to boot.) | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the versuon mismatch for asgard would not exactly be something that gets magically fixed either, rather we'd face new similar problems on midgard2 | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on top of our existing shit | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | Which is another issue that would be fixed: Mismatched and uninstalled components. | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | Yes, it does.Since we've be in control of installing, we can install a known working set of modules as suggested by Midgard2 docs... | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which brings me to 3: maemo customizations, which maybe don't migrate at all | 22:12 |
| Woody14619 | Anyway... this is all admin stuff... | 22:12 |
| chem|st | can we stop the technical stuff? | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't start midgard2 migration topic | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I said we need mor manpower | 22:13 |
| chem|st | I said you will find us some Mr. Seeker | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we can't sustain this level of maintenance for another 3 months (my guess), without more maintainers to hlp | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I also announce that I'm afk in ~10min | 22:14 |
| thedead1440 | shouldn't there be a midgard mailing list where we may be able to request for assistance as in getting additional manpower? just saying as haven't searched for it... | 22:15 |
| chem|st | so what else will we need to look after this term? | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: who knows | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo | 22:16 |
| chem|st | well, what baout jolla, did they turn us down for good? | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 22:16 |
| Woody14619 | Key elements for HFC are the criteria for membership and elections. That, IMHO, is probably the single largest item. | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I already mentioned that. nevertheless thanks for bringing it up again, Woody14619 | 22:16 |
| chem|st | what terms does us law have for this type of organisation? | 22:17 |
| Woody14619 | Not sure what you mean chem|st... can you clarify? | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 22:17 |
| chem|st | in germany ther is a pretty clear rule for registered NPOs or charities and stuff, what is it with this one? | 22:18 |
| chem|st | or would that be bod? | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you mean HiFo, then i'm sure SD69 will joyfully provide publicly distributable copies of all the relevant law texts | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and explain what they mean for us | 22:18 |
| chem|st | ok | 22:19 |
| Woody14619 | Hildon Foundation, at the moment, is a standard corporation from what I understand. | 22:19 |
| chem|st | so hfc will be something in between bod and community? | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, while we're at HiFo already: could *somebody* please update the donation page? it hasn't seen updates since >2 months | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3? | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's embarrassing | 22:20 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st: Much as MCC was the channel between Nokia and commmunity, yes. | 22:20 |
| chem|st | ok so there is actually not a single reason why to have one?! | 22:21 |
| Woody14619 | to have one what? | 22:21 |
| chem|st | hfc | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and actually I want to hear about *current* financial situation of HiFo | 22:21 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, were there donations last couple of months? I see people whining that they can't donate | 22:21 |
| chem|st | or mcc | 22:21 |
| Woody14619 | HFC? Yes... there is... for one it's documented in the bylaws for the Foundation. | 22:21 |
| SD69 | sorry, was afk | 22:22 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: I mean sane reason | 22:22 |
| chem|st | we do not NEED both... | 22:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | chem|st: That's basically why we wanted to merge them last term to begin with. | 22:22 |
| SD69 | we hopefully will have a solution for the two councils thing soon | 22:23 |
| chem|st | so skip mcc as there is no more nokia... or change bylaws to have mcc as the official council... | 22:23 |
| Woody14619 | There is a valid reason. As for sane, it's arguable, yes. | 22:23 |
| chem|st | for this term one would be integrated to the other... | 22:23 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: thanks | 22:23 |
| SD69 | when alias gets set up, we will send Nokia contract to Hildon Foundation Council, which should help explain things | 22:24 |
| chem|st | ok | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: damn, we discussed that ad nauseum during last 8 weeks | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and referendum and elections had one major goal: merge MCC and HFC | 22:25 |
| SD69 | let's not project personal opinions onto election | 22:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :nod: | 22:25 |
| Woody14619 | At least person wise. | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let's not start posts with "let's <do something>" here | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for anybody able to read: the referndum text is still available on wiki | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as are all the threads on tmo | 22:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | SD69: That's not a personal opinion, that was indeed the goal of the referendum and elections, at least from our end. Whether you think it was valid, legally sound, or whatever, is a different matter than what the goal was, and at least for us, that was the goal. | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: thanks! | 22:29 |
| chem|st | so what is the status on funds? | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | YES! | 22:30 |
| thedead1440 | SD69: ^^^ you haven't answered about the funds yet... | 22:31 |
| SD69 | approximately $4,000 in funds | 22:31 |
| SD69 | but no treasurer | 22:31 |
| chem|st | I got a bitcoin address ready (which I already told someone >2month ago...) and if you wish a hifo one... or anything you like within 6 characters | 22:31 |
| thedead1440 | why do people still receive an error when donating to HiFo? How long does HiFo need to resolve minor issues for donors? | 22:32 |
| chem|st | there is no donation button on the frontpage... ?! | 22:33 |
| SD69 | thedead1440: I don't have the answer to that question; ryan and Tim know about the issue | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who is ryan? | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and what got Tim to do with that? | 22:33 |
| thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: GA | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: aah sure, thanks | 22:34 |
| SD69 | Tim is hildonfoundation.org admin | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and admin manages the bank accounts? | 22:34 |
| thedead1440 | SD69: legally Tim holds no responsibility so how is managing things without the knowledge of the community? | 22:35 |
| thedead1440 | s/is /is he/ | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly things about bank accounts | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that reject donations | 22:35 |
| merlin1991 | do we have anything todo now, or can we wrap this up? I should be going any minute now | 22:36 |
| thedead1440 | or is it now come to the point where you can on your own decide who does what without community consultation? Does Woody14619 have any input on this matter? | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | does naybody have access and shared control to the bank accounts? | 22:37 |
| Woody14619 | I attempted to resolve the PayPal -> Bank issue, but the bank refused to deal with me, as my name was not on the account. | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is there a proper 4-eyes principle installed? | 22:37 |
| thedead1440 | so Woody14619 who's name is on the account? | 22:37 |
| SD69 | thedead1440: Tim manages website and donate button on website; as to bank accounts, like I said there is no Treasurer | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whose names (plural) I HOPE! | 22:38 |
| SD69 | at the current time | 22:38 |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC | 22:38 | |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440: Last I knew, SD69 and Cosimo. | 22:39 |
| thedead1440 | SD69: no treasurer doesn't mean nobody takes responsibility in the interim! i hope you are not serious about lacking any knowledge about problems with paypal account of hifo when you are 1 of the 3 remaining directors handling COMMUNITY's donations! | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so who has access to bank accounts at all, right now? | 22:39 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: that's irresponsible. How can Cosimo, who has resigned, have access to it still? And why wasn't your name added to it till now? | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack! | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when is next HiFo meeting where that stuff MUST get sorted FOR GOOD? | 22:41 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440, I'd direct you to the last HiFo meeting minutes... but those have not yet been posted. | 22:41 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 mumbles that MCC at least has IRC chanlogs | 22:42 | |
| SD69 | Woody14619: the minutes were emailed and I'm waiting for approval to post them. | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again: is there next HiFo meeting scheduled arlready? | 22:43 |
| Woody14619 | ?? They were? When? | 22:43 |
| * thedead1440 is very concerned at SD69's hands-off approach when dealing with community's donations but hyperactive approach when dealing with his own position. | 22:43 | |
| SD69 | Woody14619: they were emailed April 28 | 22:44 |
| SD69 | thedead1440: I am not the treasurer who is in charge of donations - I am Secretary | 22:45 |
| thedead1440 | so? you leave community's donations vulnerable? why haven't you taken steps to remove Cosimo's name and add Woody14619's name to the bank account instead? | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI you're the only one that has access to HiFo bank accounts, THAT MUST CHANGE! you might get hit by a bus (or a s | 22:47 |
| thedead1440 | as a director this falls under your purview especially with the lack of a treasurer | 22:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Your message got cut off at "(or a s" | 22:48 |
| Woody14619 | SD69: Ah I see why I missed them. I've been getting duplicates of everything, as 90% of e-mail has been to me and to board@. On search for minutes one of the many duplicates titled "Re: Fwd: Re: Re: Nokia contract and maemo community council" does in deed have the minutes. I'll review them today... | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: I hit return instead of backspace | 22:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | Ah. | 22:48 |
| SD69 | thedead1440: it was discussed in the last Board meeting, and I wasn't asked to delete Cosimo or add Woody at this time | 22:49 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: you didn't push to be included in the bank account? | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and of course Cosimo has to get access revoked, when he stepped down. Immediately! | 22:49 |
| kerio | i thought that that was a given :s | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I doubt the "I haven't been asked to <take care about urgent affairs>" approach is any bearable for a BoD member | 22:51 |
| thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: +1 | 22:51 |
| MentalistTraceur | SD69: Okay, normally I'm not one to join the direct confrontational stuff, but "I wasn't asked" is just downright bad. It should be a self-evident course of action for you as someone in position of responsibility over the matter. | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I officially announce my concern about misbehaviour regarding that handling of bank accounts | 22:52 |
| thedead1440 | can HFC direct the BoD to do the necessary immediately? | 22:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | thea | 22:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | (hit enter early) | 22:52 |
| chem|st | who is next treasurer? | 22:53 |
| SD69 | MentalistTraceur: I am 1 of 3 Directors | 22:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | thedead1440: Not with any binding authority, no. | 22:53 |
| thedead1440 | SD69: for a period of time you were the ONLY director and you left the situation as is! | 22:53 |
| SD69 | thedead1440: when I was the only director, Cosimo was still treasurer | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest MFC unanimously instructs BoD to *IMMEDIATELY* fix that issue | 22:54 |
| chem|st | rofl | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (as unanimously as it gets with sixwheeled not here) | 22:55 |
| MentalistTraceur | SD69: And? You could be one of a milliod directors. One: you are the only one in the position to enact the change in question, since the bank apparently doesn't deal with people unless their name is on the account, which is typical policy for banks, and it would be reasonable to think that would be the case for any bank, especially for a legally learned person such as yourself. | 22:55 |
| chem|st | SD69: can we have that figured out by next friday please? | 22:55 |
| SD69 | chemist: have what figured out? | 22:56 |
| chem|st | that bank account | 22:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | Two: even if you ignore point one, that's besides the point. As a person in a position to do something about a problem, and entrusted with responsibility over it, | 22:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | regardless of whether others are also in that position, | 22:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | my prior statement applies to you. | 22:56 |
| chem|st | can you please stop discussing the obvious? | 22:56 |
| SD69 | chemist: it was decided that I should make the changes when the next treasurer is appointed | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: that call won't work with Mr RM Bauer | 22:57 |
| chem|st | I think it was made clear that this was missmanaged | 22:57 |
| chem|st | SD69: I just asked who is the next treasurer... | 22:57 |
| *** panjgoori has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:57 | |
| chem|st | and who is his second? | 22:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | Saying "I am one of three directors" is like a parent defending not bothering to feed a child by pointing out they are only one of two parents when someone tells them it was their responsibility. | 22:58 |
| SD69 | I don't know.. | 22:58 |
| * MentalistTraceur is done with that now. | 22:58 | |
| chem|st | SD69: then have two people not BOD by next friday! | 22:58 |
| SD69 | chemist: what? | 22:59 |
| chem|st | or have some two of BOD and HFC sign for the account | 22:59 |
| chem|st | SD69: you can read right? | 22:59 |
| chem|st | this now gets rediculous | 22:59 |
| qwazix | chem|st, it sadly is ridiculous in the same way for months | 23:00 |
| chem|st | you have access to the account right? | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I want to see Cosimo's name removed an another (at least one) well known and trusted name added to signature list of all bank accounts, til... ok chem|st is polite and kind, next friday | 23:00 |
| kerio | banks open on monday | 23:00 |
| qwazix | I asked for the bank account number, not access, exactly six months ago | 23:00 |
| chem|st | and for god's sake get the admin to update the site | 23:01 |
| chem|st | SD69: 5 working days should be enough to get a name removed and another added | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ACK | 23:02 |
| chem|st | or at least getting the paperwork for it done... | 23:02 |
| chem|st | what bank is it at? | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afk again? | 23:03 |
| Woody14619 | The bank holding the account is at First Niagra. I have the banking details, to some degree. | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: is that usual behaviour again, of SD69? | 23:04 |
| Woody14619 | I'll intnetionally not reply to that... :D | 23:05 |
| thedead1440 | SD69: why are you silent? | 23:05 |
| SD69 | I said before I will do what the BoD asks me to do about the bank account | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm starting to feel seriously concerned about the HiFo funds | 23:05 |
| kerio | ...the BoD? | 23:05 |
| * thedead1440 feels SD69 likes playing games instead of getting work done | 23:06 | |
| chem|st | hfc you mean? | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | YOU ARE THE BoD!!!! 1/3 of it!! | 23:06 |
| Woody14619 | Perhapse a reasonable approach would be to have all Directors have access. | 23:06 |
| chem|st | or woody to tell you? | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: please tell him what to do! | 23:07 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st, If that worked, we'd have had parallel elections... | 23:07 |
| chem|st | directors should hav something like you need two to sign something of | 23:07 |
| SD69 | OK guys, any other topics? | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-05-10 21:37:29] <DocScrutinizer05> is there a proper 4-eyes principle installed? | 23:08 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: no | 23:08 |
| chem|st | why are you asking? | 23:08 |
| chem|st | I got to go in a few minutes | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because you said there should be | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I am already gone since 20 min, and nobody answered yetz when next HiFo meeting will be | 23:09 |
| thedead1440 | SD69: community donations is an important topic to resolve and you want to brush it indefinitely? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incredible | 23:09 |
| chem|st | SD69: do the paperwork for getting cosimo off the account and woody on it as soon as friday, then you do not need to do anything anymore and sit back and watch... | 23:09 |
| SD69 | thedead1440: I agree donations are an important topic to resolve | 23:10 |
| chem|st | thedead1440: I will have setup BTC donations on talk by monday, sick of it by now! | 23:10 |
| kerio | chem|st: converting immediately to some currency, or keeping them as BTC? | 23:10 |
| kerio | both have their pros and cons | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: you're located in USA? | 23:10 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05, Yes. | 23:11 |
| chem|st | first niagara sounds canadian... | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: you're an US citicen? | 23:11 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05, again, yes. And there are First Niagra branches near me. | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd like to ask you to check legal aspects | 23:12 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st, Niagra falls is actually on the boarder of US and Canada, split down the middle by the "dividing line" as it were. | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I see noting getting done til next friday | 23:12 |
| chem|st | the falls and the town is in canada, the us have the american falls... | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'd urgently ask YOU to do *something* on monday in 9 days, in that case | 23:13 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05, in what reguard? Legal aspects of what? | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of taking a bank account for hostage | 23:13 |
| chem|st | to get the account reorganised by legal force | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 23:13 |
| chem|st | as SD69 is refusing to do anything by now... | 23:14 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05, I've already attempted to deal with First Niarga to resolve the linkage issues when I first came in. First Niagra will not recognize me without my name on the account. | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't talk about bank, I talked about police | 23:14 |
| chem|st | get it at least frozen | 23:15 |
| thedead1440 | SD69: when is the next HiFo meeting? Why on earth don't you respond to questions? | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is unbelievable! | 23:15 |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo-meeting | 23:15 | |
| chem|st | wb sixwheeledbeast | 23:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hmm, I thought all went silent. thank chem|st :) | 23:17 |
| * sixwheeledbeast checks logs | 23:17 | |
| Woody14619 | I would much prefer to see this resolved in house. SD69, lets do whatever paperwork is needed to get *all* directors on the account, and Cosimo off. | 23:18 |
| Woody14619 | When the next meeting was supposed to be 2 weeks away, I figured the issue would be resolved soon enough. But that date has slipped several times now. It needs action. | 23:19 |
| thedead1440 | why isn't a meeting held Woody14619? is SD69 blocking it? | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IMMEDIATE action | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and 2/3 of BoD are enough to do it | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even without public recorded meeting! | 23:20 |
| thedead1440 | so SD69 you have decided to just remain silent? | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the heck, when roof burns, SD69 will probably wait til next BoD meeting to decide unanimously who's going to call the fire brigarde | 23:21 |
| * sixwheeledbeast is half way through logs, but agrees about bank a/c situ | 23:21 | |
| thedead1440 | By-laws: >>>Expulsion shall be solely by way of review and vote of a majority of the Foundation Council, which | 23:23 |
| thedead1440 | review and vote must occur subsequent to prior written notice of at least fifteen days by the | 23:23 |
| Woody14619 | thedead1440, Jim has been lax in replying to meeting requests. Rob has declined to attend meetings where all 3 of us are not available to be present. | 23:23 |
| thedead1440 | Foundation Council to the membership and provide an opportunity for member comments.<<< Can't HFC just expel SD69 due to his conduct being against the interests of the foundation and community? | 23:23 |
| thedead1440 | Woody14619: ah so SD69 has tried to just be the spoiler as usual... | 23:23 |
| kerio | ok, *that* is definetely malicious in intent | 23:24 |
| thedead1440 | since there is a HFC now and i think all of them agree that the current situation is unbearable a vote should be held and a written notice on tmo+mailing list should suffix. | 23:25 |
| chem|st | SD69: please lookup what jailtime you'd get for fraud and if you keep your bar... and reconsider jsut doing what you were asked for... | 23:26 |
| chem|st | thedead1440: no need for a vote or anything, by his own bylaws he has to do what the chairman askes him to do in this regard... | 23:27 |
| * sixwheeledbeast has caught up now :-\ | 23:28 | |
| chem|st | kerio: for now keeping, saves us any hassle with banks and stuff | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, guys. I'm definitely out. I just hope RM Bauer grows a brain | 23:28 |
| thedead1440 | chem|st: yes but to expel him the HFC can act without requiring the BoD's approval; solves the issue once and for all instead of his constant hiding behind words and "afk" comments | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tol next tuesday the latest, to get shit sorted til Friday | 23:28 |
| chem|st | does not solve that he is not doing what he is asked for | 23:29 |
| chem|st | we will see on friday, we can expel him and get the police involved if he is unresponsive anyhow... | 23:30 |
| chem|st | agreed? | 23:30 |
| chem|st | I got to go now! | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly removing names from signing list that are clearly a threat is NO WAY anything that may get delayed by only one week, not even a few days. and it needs no meeting or anything to get done | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya guys, bye chem|st | 23:32 |
| chem|st | bb | 23:32 |
| sixwheeledbeast | bye chem|st o/ | 23:32 |
| Woody14619 | o/ | 23:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | Bye chem|st | 23:33 |
| thedead1440 | hfc should post an expulsion notice on mailing list+tmo as it requires a 15-day waiting time before a vote and the procedure may get delayed if we wait till next friday. if he does the necessary, the notice can be withdrawn. | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 23:38 |
| qwazix | I'm out for a few minutes | 23:39 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I am going afk for a while | 23:40 |
| kerio | did bauer just... leave? | 23:52 |
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