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| DocScrutinizer05 | meeting, right? | 19:57 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topics: starting council election. Announcing call HiFo board election. Referendum ongoing. Voting infra? Token/Ballot mails? Karma calculation? Login to www.maemo.org? IPHH sent contract to Woody/HiFo. HiFo sysop approval for xes? | 20:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 looks around, glances at clock and calendar, wonders if he missed something except this weird holiday | 20:09 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ping me if you wanna start some chat | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 20:10 |
| Woody14619 | DocScrutinizer05: I'm here... have small update on voting stuff. | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine | 20:13 |
| Woody14619 | One is, voting system is running. I have the files setup to import to get history back. And have all but the last bits done on the voting interface to allow others to admin/setup voting without having direct access to raw db. | 20:14 |
| Woody14619 | Am testing on my home site right now, with about 50% functional. | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | great | 20:15 |
| Woody14619 | Should have the full voting interface in this weekend, and can migrate that, setup accounts for Council, Board, whomever we want to be able to setup voting stuff. | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one thing we must start *immediately* is start sending ballot/token mails | 20:16 |
| Woody14619 | Ironicly, we can do that before even entering info into voting both about elections. | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but we must do that *now* | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it will take a while til we managed to send out all mails, so that they actually get delivered | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also we wanna use those mails to advertise referendum and election(s) | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apropos plural, what's up with BoD now? have you guys over there made up your mind to announce your own election? | 20:19 |
| Woody14619 | So, here's my idea: Existing voting system has a way to send out X email at a time every Y minutes. This is used by the "resend my e-mail" page to re-send tokens if they get lost in spam. | 20:19 |
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| Woody14619 | We can generate tokens, put them ALL in that box, and the system will send them out in small batches over the next few days. | 20:20 |
| Woody14619 | As for Board: Rob has been on vacation this week, so nothing has moved much. We are setup to have a meeting this week, AFAIK. | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds good | 20:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I wondered if we could send tmo PM for those who have a tmo account | 20:21 |
| Woody14619 | I would love to, if there's an interface setup on TMO. We have in the db the correlation IDs, so... | 20:21 |
| Woody14619 | Speaking of: We do have some work to do on "new" people. | 20:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ask chem|st and maybe even reggie | 20:22 |
| Woody14619 | Specifically, I have the electorate list from the last election, 6 months ago. | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, so you suggest we process "new2 users manually? | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we'd miss out on those that are "old" but had insufficient karma last time | 20:24 |
| Woody14619 | But we need to refresh that... because it prunes all members < 10 karma, and under 3 months. | 20:24 |
| Woody14619 | Plus, I'm not sure there are any "new" maemo.org accounts, since it's been broken for about 3 months. | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, e.g. warfare created an account in... January? | 20:26 |
| Woody14619 | On that front... it looks like the culprit is that all custom plugins were all disabled during Nemien's migration. | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 20:27 |
| Woody14619 | That not only nuked the custom karma plugins (wiki, tmo, etc). But also an authetication plugin. | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just wonder if we need to follow that karma rule for electorate this time. Would it be unfair to anybody if we'd simply allow everybody with an account to vote? | 20:28 |
| Woody14619 | Apparently Midgard by default stores pwds in the clear, and Nemien didn't like that. So they put in a plugin that did ~crypt() on them. That's busted, thus no passwords work. | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it's less unfair than excluding a single user from voting due to us not getting karma etc sorted | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait! you say nemein nuked our complete user database, basically? | 20:31 |
| Woody14619 | while I agree... there's been quite the squable over "rules". | 20:31 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no they didn't | 20:31 |
| Woody14619 | No... When they moved things, the plugins all fell out. | 20:31 |
| Woody14619 | So now instead of having my password be "Happy2MeetYou", it's crypt("Happy2MeetYou",<some salt>). | 20:32 |
| Woody14619 | But since that plugin is now not there, the two are not equal, thus no login. | 20:32 |
| Woody14619 | And since there's no "recover password" option, there's no way to change it from that crypted form to something else. | 20:33 |
| Woody14619 | The old way was "change it on garage", since the system there stored actual user info and such in standard format. And a cron job was setup to copy said entries over. | 20:34 |
| kerio | not being able to easily reverse it is kinda the point of a KDF | 20:34 |
| * Woody14619 nods at kerio | 20:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all that squabble over rules been mostly about maybe *not* allowing stuff to community. We're supposed to handle rules for this single vote/referendum on our own discretion anyway, regarding requirements to be eligible to vote, since due to migration our former rules don't apply and we can't adhere to them to get new rules approved by community. So we don't have much alternatives to either fixing *everything* to the state it | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | been during former elections (virtually impossible since e.g. no new users during last 3 months you say, despite those users maybe *planned* to register so they could vote) | 20:35 |
| Woody14619 | But that's not the point. Most places allow you to recover by mailing you a link to input a new password. | 20:35 |
| Woody14619 | Docscrutinizer05: I'm not arguing either way. I'm simply stating facts. If you follow rules, people will bitch that they were cut out. If you don't people will bitch that you're not following rules. | 20:36 |
| Woody14619 | Btw: Same thing applies to the referendum. | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm going to follow rules as good as we can. The rules for HiFo been "council defines election rules", since everybody been aware the old rules wouldn't apply anymore due to migration | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | allowing people to vote that otherwise were not allowed to vote since *we* failed, seems the right thing to do | 20:38 |
| Woody14619 | Yes: Hifo has specific language to allow HFC to setup election criteria as a sparate item. And they can be different for HFC and Board, just have to both be in that document. | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nota bene I don't suggest to change or ignore rules for running for a seat in council/BoD | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just say "let the people vote! why should we forbid them to vote based on some crippled rules that don't apply" | 20:40 |
| Woody14619 | I'm not getting into this argument. | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if somebody was going to bitch over that, I'd like to hear his/her rationale | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while somebody bitching for NOT being allowed to vote, since he wasn't able to register on maemo.org or whatever, during last 4 months, would for sure have a point | 20:42 |
| Woody14619 | Anyway: That's current status. I have some time to spend on this this weekend, and hope that I can: A> Kick plugins back into working, and B>Get voting stuff setup as needed. | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine | 20:43 |
| Woody14619 | And now apparently C: Get tokens going out. | 20:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 checks his terse topic list | 20:43 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders where are qwazix and MT | 20:43 | |
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| Woody14619 | We can start that process with the old list from last election now, and add people when new criteria is settled. | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, good plan | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | assuming we don't have karma aging in place ;-D | 20:44 |
| Woody14619 | AFAIK: There is not way to "lose" karma right now, so that list is a given for those who can vote. (and at ~5200 right now) | 20:44 |
| Woody14619 | karma aging would have to be a referendum. ;) | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | realy? | 20:45 |
| Woody14619 | it's part of the election rules... | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think karma calculation algos are a referendum topic | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, nm | 20:46 |
| kerio | well, they kinda are if they decide who gets to vote | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Announcing call HiFo board election | 20:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so are registration details then | 20:47 |
| qwazix | hi, terribly sorry | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi qwazix | 20:48 |
| * qwazix goes to read log | 20:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not much to read | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: what about HiFo election? | 20:48 |
| Woody14619 | What about it? | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | I'm all for one.... | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: [2013-03-29 19:07:08] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topics: starting council election. Announcing call HiFo board election. Referendum ongoing. Voting infra? Token/Ballot mails? Karma calculation? Login to www.maemo.org? IPHH sent contract to Woody/HiFo. HiFo sysop approval for xes? | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but how about BoD at large? do you finally announce own re-election? Or do we need to push the big red button today? | 20:50 |
| Woody14619 | Board agenda has about 10 items right now. from contract stuff to funds for IPHH and ssl certs, and... election. | 20:50 |
| Woody14619 | I can not, on my own, announce or declair anything. | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since we're supposed to announce own re-election today, and if we want to keep in sync with both votes, we had to call for a global re-election instead of announcing own regular elections | 20:51 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, thanks | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for when is that meeting scheduled? | 20:52 |
| qwazix | re voting eligibility, I think that we could do something like 10Karma or XXPosts*2+XXThanks*3>YY | 20:52 |
| qwazix | so that people who didn't link can vote based on how karma would've been | 20:52 |
| qwazix | or something | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possibly feasible | 20:53 |
| Woody14619 | this coming week... I believe on Wednesday. | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, so should we postpone own election announcement another week then? | 20:53 |
| Woody14619 | Actually, given a users TMO id, we can get their karma from tmo directly... (It's parsable XML output for the karma plugin...) | 20:53 |
| qwazix | Aren't we required to announce <Apr 9 ? | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, thought so | 20:54 |
| Woody14619 | Or call it, and Board can fight over if it's a valid call as well as if we should announce. | 20:54 |
| qwazix | So next week should be ok too | 20:54 |
| qwazix | although I'd like to give people more time to think about running | 20:55 |
| Woody14619 | Technically, they have 2 weeks to think about running even after the announce. ;) | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a completely different topic: drum up volunteers/candidates | 20:55 |
| Woody14619 | I'll note this: I have already decided to run again for Board. | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, do we postpone the big-red to next week? | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: ?? | 20:57 |
| qwazix | reluctantly yes | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: you forwarded the contract sent to you by warfare on behlaf of IPHH? | 20:58 |
| Woody14619 | I did. It's on the table for the next meeting. | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly hope you don't decide to reject it | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 20:59 |
| Woody14619 | I should be able to sign it myself, but given we need to approve funding for it, and it technically did change (very minor), it should go for approval. I doubt it will be rejected. | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could you maybe finally already approve xes for co-sysop during that meeting? | 21:00 |
| Woody14619 | I will add that to the item list. | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik he's been informally approved by everybody and his dog | 21:01 |
| Woody14619 | can you pm me his details (real name, home country, etc)? I'm putting together meeting agenda now. | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you also might consider changing your approval policy, by granting full control over permissions granted to maintainers/sysops to me and/or warfare. You might have noticed there've been quite some troubles with the former policy in real life | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he posted all that to board several weeks (months?) ago | 21:05 |
| qwazix | I vote for yearly re-approval of master sysops, which will then be able to delegate responsibilities | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | before I was there and on the alias, so no... I don't know details. | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can try to find the copy council got, and forward it to you | 21:05 |
| qwazix | Just in case someone disappears to not be sysop for ever | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: sounds about sane | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | originally I thought that's been my (only) function in this whole techstaff/maintenance thing | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't think I was meant to be the kbd monkey of HiFo to type in "useradd foo bar" | 21:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | after HiFo allowed me to do, when I showed them the command line | 21:08 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, lol | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | It's been me who originally insisted in HiFo *approving* my decisions, not *blocking* them | 21:10 |
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| MentalistTraceur | Am I 10 minutes late, or 70 minutes late? | 21:11 |
| Woody14619 | 70 | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 70 | 21:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | (F'ing daylights savings time and timezones) | 21:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | Shit. | 21:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | Sincerest apologies. | 21:11 |
| Woody14619 | I have one other agenda item for Council (via a 3rd party): Update on status of *patch, thread on tmo, removal, etc. | 21:12 |
| Woody14619 | Promised I'd bring it up, so.. there it is. :) | 21:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Did I already miss everything good? | 21:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Or bad, as the case may be? | 21:13 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, <DocScrutinizer05> so, do we postpone the big-red to next week? | 21:13 |
| qwazix | <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: ?? | 21:13 |
| qwazix | <qwazix> reluctantly yes | 21:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | Why are we postponing? | 21:13 |
| qwazix | because board didn't yet announce theirs | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because HiFo has a meeting on wednesday | 21:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we still hope for common sense ;-) | 21:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | Then I agree. Postpone. We can postpone until at least after we know what happened Wednesday. | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 21:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | Was there any issue my input was wanted on so far? | 21:15 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, on the other hand if you find some time you could prepare a draft for announcement and we can discuss it meanwhile | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-03-29 20:12:28] <Woody14619> I have one other agenda item for Council (via a 3rd party): Update on status of *patch, thread on tmo, removal, etc. | 21:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: Adding to to do list. | 21:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Also noting here, | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pars pro todo ;-) | 21:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | #mentalist traceur to-do: write big red announce | 21:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Catching up on the *patch thread now) | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, there's already a thread you started? | 21:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | You guys didn't notice? Qwazix told me to do it as soon as I could get to it, lol... | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1332837#post1332837 | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1332837 | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | (To not get taken to a post in the middle/end of it) | 21:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I figured since we basically all agreed that /our/ opinions were all "should be removed", and sixwheeledbeast gave a clear list of issues with the packages, | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how would I notice? I'm not scanning tmo for new threads | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are not even shown to me with my classic-light theme | 21:21 |
| qwazix | rss widget on N900 :) | 21:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh! | 21:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | that it was fine to post the thread asking for community input without running it through the proof-read (I put a full disclosure bit at the bottom saying I wrote this without proof reading by council) | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, not needed | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least by me | 21:22 |
| * MentalistTraceur is catching up on log for this meeting so far. | 21:24 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Once again guys, I'm really sorry I misremembered the correct time for the meeting. | 21:25 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, I was terribly late too | 21:26 |
| qwazix | (if that's of any consolation) And I didn't have any daylight savings change to help my case | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and i'm terribly early to leave ;-D | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless there's sth I'm needed for right now | 21:28 |
| qwazix | probably not | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | K, back to work for me too... | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, one thing: we got some peripheral linked infra that's however useful for community and so far gets sponsored by anonymous donors, who plan to reduce their engagement (since they alas don't have an income to do this sort of sponsoring anymore). It would probably be a huge loss for community when those important support server would go offline | 21:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: More specific please? | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: in that context: what's Nokia's final position and verdict on stuff like tablets-dev.n.c ? | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: there's a reason a don't get more specific | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | docscrutinizer05: From the contract I've seen, it may or may not cover such items. The wording is very vuage. But with the very latest update, it would appear to lean toward not granting that. Sadly in this case: IANAL. | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: this is more like a tmo case | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there is some infra that's not under m.o domain but still definitely needed for maemo | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you answered my second question | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's about my first initial question then? | 21:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyone rich in bitcoins to continue doing it anonymously? | 21:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Who'd volunteer? I'm guessing no, just throwing ideas out there. | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | I'd say that more info is needed to know and it would be evaluated case by case. | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, i'll forward it that way | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might result in some servers going down end of next month | 21:40 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: does it start by s? | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 21:41 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, can it be funded by HiFo for at least some months more? | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, no problem | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can forward all that's needed | 21:45 |
| qwazix | Please do and let's hope that board approves it :) | 21:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: I have a feeling at the very least the lawyer od the Directors will be very against that for obvious reasons... | 21:50 |
| MentalistTraceur | But that said, worth a try. | 21:50 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, I think that the board will be disclosed the required information and that will help the situation | 21:51 |
| qwazix | maybe even the servers' ownership can be transferred to hifo, idk | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, topic kinda sorted | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on an off-topic sidenote: I think skeiron is a nice name for anything maemo related | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic?= | 21:56 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, why? | 21:57 |
| qwazix | does it have any special history? | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because otherwise I'd call it a day | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, skeiron. It's a wind | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 21:57 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it sounds really nice when speaking it aloud | 21:58 |
| qwazix | shame on me | 21:59 |
| qwazix | it's a greek word | 21:59 |
| qwazix | (as is meltemi btw) | 21:59 |
| MentalistTraceur | Btw, I have no further topics to add, so I am fine with wrapping this up. | 22:01 |
| qwazix | me too | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | me neither | 22:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | I haven't caught up all the way in the log yet, but as I understand it we are postponing the election announcement until next week so we can still do big red, or are we still announcing council election and then big-redding after if need be? | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, we don't annouce election yes as that would introduce a 1 week skew between council and BoD elections | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/yes7yet/ | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | You can always announce and push the time table a week... | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need to do either or. either big-red-button *or* normal election | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | Hmm.. true that. | 22:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, my thoughts exactly. | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well "announced" is MCC election since ~4 weeks | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | K. Need to get back to work. someone on tmo is making my brain hurt. | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | need to get a life | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya peeps, thanks everybody for joining in | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(It's all a "take over... last referendum ever!!!" Sigh... Shoot me now.) | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, shoot somebody else | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | trolls | 22:08 |
| Woody14619 | coming from you, after this past month.. that means a lot. ;) | 22:08 |
| Woody14619 | K, off to finish this stupid calibration tool. Before I make the new tool a hammer... I hope. | 22:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, well, that's that. Thanks everyone for your time. Meeting adjourned. I'll get big red announcement draft in the next 24 hours at the latest. | 22:12 |
| * MentalistTraceur waves | 22:12 | |
| * qwazix waves | 22:13 | |
| *** MentalistTraceur has left #maemo-meeting | 22:48 | |
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