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| DocScrutinizer05 | topic for meeting: karma is defunct - how will we do next council elections? | 03:48 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | with my karma I guess I'm not allowed to run for another term | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, not reaching the needed 100 on karma | 03:53 |
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| kerio | hm, how do you lose karma? | 09:43 |
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| merlin1991 | kerio: becaues karma calculation can't reach tmo and wiki | 14:47 |
| merlin1991 | hence as soon as it got recalculated those points went missing | 14:47 |
| kerio | Pali: here! | 15:28 |
| Pali | kerio, seems like topic is not up-to-date: There will be a Council meeting (IRC - #maemo-meeting) at 15:00 UTC on Tuesday April 17. | 15:28 |
| Pali | so I do not trust if @ 18:00 UTC is also ok :-) | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eh? | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: sorry, I don't know what you're talking about | 15:46 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, about topic | 15:46 |
| Pali | see it | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-15 14:46:53] *** The channel topic is "Council meetings every Friday @ 18:00 UTC | topics: see http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-April/005085.html | livelog at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/latest.log.html". | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-15 14:46:53] *** The topic was set by DocScrutinizer05!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg on 2013-01-18 17:21. | 15:47 |
| Pali | I mean this link http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-April/005085.html | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 15:47 |
| Pali | is old | 15:48 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer05 | 15:48 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Council meetings every Friday @ 18:00 UTC | livelog at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/latest.log.html" | 15:48 | |
| kerio | fix the livelog link, too | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's wrong with it? | 15:48 |
| kerio | make it point to http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/ like in #maemo and #maemo-ssu | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | k | 15:49 |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Council meetings every Friday @ 18:00 UTC | livelog at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/" | 15:49 | |
| kerio | now fix the double space! | 15:49 |
| kerio | :D | 15:49 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer05 | 15:49 | |
| kerio | fine :( | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're wasting my time. make a list of what exactly you want to get changed | 15:50 |
| kerio | nah, it's not exactly important anyway | 15:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hi everybody! | 20:01 |
| ivgalvez | hi | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh hi ivgalvez! nice you made it here :-D | 20:02 |
| ivgalvez | Yes | 20:02 |
| ivgalvez | it's been a crazy week | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah | 20:02 |
| ivgalvez | And I've been flooded by emails | 20:03 |
| ivgalvez | Actually I don't know who's angry with who | 20:03 |
| ivgalvez | I hope nothing that a beer or two can't cure | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ah, let's not focus on "angry" | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: hi! | 20:04 |
| Woody14619 | Hi. :) | 20:04 |
| ivgalvez | Hi Woody14619 | 20:05 |
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| Woody14619 | Just popping in for the meeting. :) | 20:06 |
| qwazix | hi | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi! | 20:06 |
| ivgalvez | hi there | 20:06 |
| qwazix | ivan, congrats on new job :) | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anybody knows about MT? | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, ivgalvez, congrats and good luck! | 20:07 |
| ivgalvez | thanks | 20:07 |
| ivgalvez | I'll keep you posted | 20:07 |
| ivgalvez | anyone know if Eero did any advance on the DNS transference? | 20:08 |
| ivgalvez | Nokia representative told him that it should be doable | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err? Eero doesn't do that | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hi MentalistTraceur! | 20:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | Greetings! | 20:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Only 9 minutes late, that's got to be a record for me.) | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and then there were 4 \o/ | 20:09 |
| kerio | four out of...? | 20:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | Ivan's here and active I take it? | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council? | 20:09 |
| ivgalvez | Hi MT | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes :-) | 20:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | kerio: out of 5 council. | 20:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | Although it need not be out of anything, for that expression to work. | 20:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, meeting officially started, or something. | 20:10 |
| kerio | ###meeting start | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, ivgalvez, the DNS transfer is an organizational issue to be done between Nokia and Tim, afaik | 20:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | Agenda? | 20:11 |
| kerio | DNS transfer or domain transfer? | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##migration status | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###iphh | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###autobuilder | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###repo status | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###DNS hidden master project | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##maintainers | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###merlin | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###HiFo misconception / confusion between administrators and maintainers | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##Karam issues / voting | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ## --- done --- | 20:13 |
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| Woody14619 | .oO(Oher...Voting... I might be useful this meeting. :) | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/karam/karma/. | 20:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, anyone else have anything to add to agenda? | 20:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | If not, we can start and proceed down Joerg's list. | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: you might want to report about (non-)progress with signingkey issue? | 20:15 |
| ivgalvez | Nokia guys told that they had all the information they needed | 20:15 |
| ivgalvez | but I guess that any action takes a lot of time there | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: about? | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | key? | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | yep | 20:16 |
| Pali | I do not know news about nokia sw admin gpg key | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | after the explanation from PAli | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | they said "OK thanks" | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | now it's up to us | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, fine (well "fine") | 20:17 |
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| ivgalvez | but no news is bad news in this case | 20:17 |
| Pali | today I sent mail to that thread | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, is this an agenda point or is it done already? | 20:18 |
| kerio | it's not exactly a big issue anyway | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, it's a rather big issue but nothing we can do much about | 20:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'd say it doesn't look like there's much else to be said on the topic atm? So we can move on to Joerg's topic list. | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd like to insert 1. ###DNS (ivan) | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok with everybody? | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Yep. | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, ivgalvez, what exactly did you mean with "if Eero did any advance on the DNS transference"? | 20:22 |
| ivgalvez | my mistake, I was thinking about domain transfer | 20:22 |
| ivgalvez | If you recall my email after conference with Nokia, tehy said that the domain transfer should be doable now and that Eero could coordinate that with Tim (he already administrates the HiFo domain) | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: there are two subjects with DNs topic: domain ownership and NS records pointing to IPs | 20:22 |
| ivgalvez | so I understood from that conversation that the domain ownership should be able to be transferred now | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Ooh, I wouldn't know how eero could do it. It's a thing Nokia DNSmaster needs to do | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare sent a mini-howto about domain transfer to hiFo | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 20:24 |
| kerio | will we keep the same registrar? | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui we will use tim's/HiFo's registrar | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway Eero needs to ask Nokia DNSmaster for every little change to be done to DNS records, so I don't see how he could help | 20:26 |
| ivgalvez | uf | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which, if we got this sorted, would directly lead to my point 1.4 ###DNS hidden master | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so i'd like to proceed with this if everybody agrees | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and ivgalvez has no further questions re Domain transfer | 20:28 |
| ivgalvez | continue please | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | k | 20:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | Agreed. | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I today came up with a plan to gather more control over our DNS records (the stuff converting from URL -> IP) | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I talked about it with Eero and Merlin and we agreed to give it a try and see if Nokia will agree to do it | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the basic idea is to have a hidden nameserver master under our control which gets asked for the data details for anything *.maemo.org by the Nokia nameserver | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it would allow us to make swift chnges to IP addresses and subdomains while final control over maemo.org domain still stays with Nokia so they could revoke our rights any time | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's pretty technical stuff we don't need to discuss here | 20:32 |
| qwazix | Might be nonsense, but why not the other way around? Nokia DNS points to our server and our server delegates everything? | 20:32 |
| kerio | "delegates" how? | 20:33 |
| qwazix | Or better let's discuss that after meeting | 20:33 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: traffic. | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just wanted to let you know we are following a plan about how to handle our limitations with DNS as long as domain ownership not yet transferred | 20:33 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why not just ask nokia to change the root nameservers? they can change *that* at any time too | 20:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | So, world queries Nokia's DNS, they query ours for the *maemo.org records? | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: please | 20:33 |
| qwazix | kerio, that's what I meant more or less | 20:34 |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: world queries their own DNS, requests eventually reach nokia's DNS, they query ours | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ours tells nokia's what to answer on queries | 20:34 |
| kerio | the point is that our server doesn't exist for the outside world | 20:34 |
| merlin1991 | Let me throw in the technical bit her: | 20:34 |
| kerio | and it's not authoritative for maemo.org | 20:34 |
| merlin1991 | world queries nokia server | 20:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | kerio: obviously I counted all other dns servers as 'world' in that question for simplicity. | 20:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I approve. | 20:35 |
| ivgalvez | go ahead | 20:35 |
| merlin1991 | if we update the dns records on our side our master sends a notify to nokia master which then does a zone transfer | 20:35 |
| ivgalvez | my question here would be | 20:35 |
| ivgalvez | who's best to receive it? | 20:35 |
| merlin1991 | all data again sits inside the nokia cache | 20:35 |
| kerio | merlin1991: oh, so it's even better - we just control nokia's dns, regarding maemo.org | 20:36 |
| merlin1991 | exactly | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-15 19:32:30] <DocScrutinizer05> it's pretty technical stuff we don't need to discuss here I just wanted to let you know we are following a plan about how to handle our limitations with DNS as long as domain ownership not yet transferred | 20:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Well, I (tentatively) approve. Would this be forever, or until Nokia signs *maemo.org to HiFo properly. | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: unrelated | 20:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | (I think it is worth discussing the technical stuff, personally.) | 20:37 |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: until the nameservers for the "maemo.org" aren't changed in the whois db | 20:37 |
| kerio | regardless of why | 20:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05 | 20:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oops, hit enter early. | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | guys, this is technical 7 maintenance stuff we don't discuss publicly on council meetings. It's not anything we need to approve or anything | 20:38 |
| kerio | s|7|/| | 20:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: My only concern is, it still means the dns for *maemo.org can still get messed up by Nokia if they so choose at any moment, no? (Not that they're likely to, but the point is at any time they can stop having their dns master listen to our dns master)? | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as said above, i just wanted to let you know your sysops are working on a technical solution | 20:39 |
| kerio | MentalistTraceur: yeah, that's the whole point, for them | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: nothing will change by this | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's only your maemo sysops get more control over DNS->IP | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no other implications | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: yes, exactly | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why we can do it now, even before and because of domain transfer not happened | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to aleviate that blocker | 20:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, how likely is this scenario: some bureaucrat at Nokia sees this solution, and goes "okay, they already get to control where the DNS for *maemo.org points through us, let's cancel that negotiation for transfering the domain to them"? | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 20:42 |
| warfare | hi everyone. Sorry, I'm late. The kid is sick and required some time ;) | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unlikely | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi warfare:-) | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: hope kid gets well soon | 20:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. I've got no further questions. | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: we just discuss hidden primary/master for DNS | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: regarding your concern: those are different entities inside Nokia deciding on those things. Domain transfer gets executed but not decided by DNSmaster, while hidden primary is a mere organizational thing I hope | 20:45 |
| MentalistTraceur | Cool. | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if Nokia would be interested to keep the maemo.org domain ownership, they wouldn't allow hidden primary either | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (my 2 cents) | 20:46 |
| warfare | They could just change the nameserver records. | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, next topic? | 20:46 |
| Woody14619 | yes please. :) | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: I don't know, isn't there an issue with SOA or whatever? | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: anyway, let's discuss this in admin chan | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next big topic: ##migration status | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | subtopic: ###iphh | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | iphh? | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as you all might have heard of, warfare found a free colocation for our server, and we like to use it | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this free colo is at iphh.net a 10 minutes from where warfare lives | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are willing to put our server into their rack for free | 20:50 |
| ivgalvez | but do we still plan to sell them , once we have everything virtualized? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we aranged everything so we can do all this legally and safely, even while HiFo has no control over neither the server nor the virtual assets (software, data) of maemo | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: no, obviously we want to keep our server to run the stuff on it, at iphh.net | 20:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | ivgalvez: No, not at this time if we do the colo with IPHH. | 20:52 |
| ivgalvez | OK I didn't catch it from all the mails | 20:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* Understandable, we know you've been busy. | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we sorted *every* *single* aspect of it and it's the best (and only) solution for now, if we want to keep maemo.org up and running after 1. of March | 20:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hi xes | 20:53 |
| xes | :) hi! | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nemein very much is in favour of this solution either, and sent a mail to HiFo telling them they will proceed accordingly if HiFo doesn't rise any objections until monday morning finnish time | 20:54 |
| MentalistTraceur | ivgalvez: If you can only read one e-mail between today and tomorrow's meeting, I recommend you read the final Official Council-to-Board 2nd Migration Recommendation email. It explains all of the reasoning/advantages to this approach. | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus that mail from Eero I just mentioned | 20:55 |
| ivgalvez | OK, apart from this point to be appreved verbally in the conference meeting of HiFo, we have approval of merlin1991 and Woody14619 as maintainers, although I'm on the side of those who think this decision should be delgated and quicker | 20:56 |
| Woody14619 | Interesting. Gets rid of the need for the second migration totally then? Sounds good so far. | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I will try to manage server shipping on monday afternoon, given HiFo has no objections (I couldn't see a single reason why anybody could have objections against that plan, particularly since everybody thought it's by far best option we have, if not only option) | 20:57 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how long will iphh support us? | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | minimum one year | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with lots of prewarning time if they decide to ask for money after that | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: that's basically my ###merlin point | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so let's deal with it then, ok? | 20:59 |
| Woody14619 | .o(And I'm betting their costs would be a lot lower...) | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as usual you can find more details on http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure | 21:00 |
| kerio | Woody14619: aiui a lot of people at iphh have maemo devices :D | 21:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oh hi SD69 | 21:00 |
| SD69 | hello hello | 21:01 |
| ivgalvez | hi | 21:01 |
| Woody14619 | yay! It's like old times again. ;) | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SD69 answered to Eero's / nemein's mail regarding the iphh move that HiFo will meet tomorrow and we will get an answer from them then | 21:02 |
| SD69 | woody14619: the three amigos? | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm faithful that the iphh solution gets general appreciation and we will move on on monday | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | Lol. :) Usually at least. ;) | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:03 |
| kerio | autobuilder | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess some of you might have further questions ;-D | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | Lots of appreciation. We should consider looking into filing what's needed to be a charity in their local so they can at least write off their donation? | 21:04 |
| kerio | ooh, that's nice | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: not needed | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | But that's a "down the road" thing. | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: would iphh be interested in that? | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | No, not needed, but... I'm sure they would appreciate it if it were an option (and may give them incentive to continue that into a second year, if we put that on the agenda to do this year some time). | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SD69: reposting for you: [2013-02-15 20:00:24] <DocScrutinizer05> as usual you can find more details on http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not absolutely up to date of last 6h, but pretty good nevertheless | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OT: 2012-b1-14 flying by | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no more questions regarding iphh solution? | 21:07 |
| kerio | is it hitting anything? | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | Just food for thought. So, autobuilder? | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | flying by, kerio | 21:07 |
| qwazix | For IPHH I know they haven't asked for anything like that but we could consider a banner on maemo.org under the Nokia developer one | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next point: autobuilder | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: we'll find nice ways to give them proper credit | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | another good idea qwazix. :) Yes, autobuilder. | 21:08 |
| ivgalvez | a banner recognising their sponsorship is amust | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which, btw is the only thing they "asked for" | 21:09 |
| ivgalvez | latest news from autobuilder I have is that Neils was working on it | 21:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we are happy to fulfill that wish of theirs, and they trust in our judgement how to do it | 21:09 |
| SD69 | maybe we can take down the nokia developer banner? | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###autobuilder | 21:10 |
| kerio | SD69: *after* they hand us the domain | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SD69: probably we could do this, yes | 21:10 |
| qwazix | SD69, there's still some valuable info at nokia developer wiki about maemo + harmattan | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: good point | 21:10 |
| qwazix | except if it falls under "purge maemo.org from nokia references" | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we don't need to discuss this now and here | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I already see this becoming a lengthy meeting | 21:11 |
| SD69 | qwazix: we can put it on our wiki | 21:11 |
| kerio | ###autobuilder, goddammit | 21:11 |
| Woody14619 | Niels is still out, AFAIK, with a broken leg? Is he remoting in now, or has someone else taken it up? | 21:11 |
| qwazix | SD69, right, because they may take it down anytime | 21:11 |
| SD69 | right | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so lease let's discuss those details in usual daily business | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh it's Niels who got that broken leg? | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-o | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I've seen him 2around" on builder VM last week at least | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | That was my understanding from the mail/irc logs I read. But I may be wrong on that. | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: didn't arrive here | 21:13 |
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| MTraceur | Got disconnected, f'ing mobile internet. | 21:14 |
| Woody14619 | So, autobuilder is creeping toward working again? | 21:14 |
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| ivgalvez | sorry guys I need to leave now, I'll read logs later for tomorrow's conference | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway aiui last week's(?) meeting between HiFo and Nokia and Nemein finally resulted in Eero telling me that Niels is looking into the autobuilder issue now | 21:14 |
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| ivgalvez | Rob is it finally at 18:00 UTC? | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: thanks! :-) | 21:14 |
| ivgalvez | thanks to you DocScrutinizer05, you deserve all our gratitude | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my understanding is that a lot of problems in whole *.maemo.org have their root cause in garage refusing to handle account/auth for the other VMs | 21:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | Can someone PM me what I was disconnected for? | 21:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: http://privatepaste.com/b2fac5a7b8 | 21:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | Last thing I had gotten was DocScrutinizer05 saying "warfare would IPHH be interested in doing that". | 21:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: thanks | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not much more to report about autobuilder, except pali going berserk soon when it doesn't get fixed ;-D And I feel with him | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###repo status | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | Ahh.. the garage thing makes sense... That would also explain the lack of login on the main site. | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | Repos need to be reindexed baddly. | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | repository server works fine now and upstream has gone down to some 12Mb/s average | 21:19 |
| Woody14619 | Last I looked there were still a number of hash sums mismatching. | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: we could probably subsum this to ##autobuilder and yet to come ###merlin | 21:20 |
| qwazix | I suppose just rebuilding all mismatched packages is not an option? | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or just handle it here as it's also repo related | 21:20 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: there's a script to just rebuild the hash sums... Niels has had to run it in the past a few times. | 21:20 |
| qwazix | I may be wrong but I think merlin tried that and the hashes get borked again after some operation or sth | 21:21 |
| Woody14619 | The packages in the repo are generally all ok. It's just their index has an old hash sum for the most part. | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: merlin1991 might want to comment, but dfirst let me announce that we found merlin1991 already been accepted as repo maintainer by x-fade several months ago, and thus we have no problems with his maintainer status (Nota Bene NOT sysop status, but maintainer=user status) | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | what about Nokia key? Any progress/update from Nokia on that? | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we will NOT offer sysop status 8or any other status that might allow to mess up maemo.org infra without prior approval from hiFo) | 21:23 |
| Woody14619 | hmm.. May be a backup mechanism gone wrong... We have a few of those these days (including the one killing Karma computations) | 21:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | Question - so what could merlin1991's account priveleges allow one to do on the server, exactly? | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we will however keep all legacy accounts, as long as there are no objections from HiFo once they are in charge to decide instead of Nemein | 21:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | I.e. could he 'rm -rf [directory with all the .debs]'? | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously right now we couldn't kick out Nemein from their own servers | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: there are several NFS mounts that often go awry | 21:25 |
| Woody14619 | MT: I think the answer is "maybe" but he couldn't take down the server itself. AFAIK he has permissions to fix/repair and maybe remove things, but no control over actual machine operations. | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: actually he's not allowed to do *anything* right now | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except in his home | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | Hm.. I thought he had some privs via the web interface? Or did that never get working? | 21:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | I mean, obviously, if he got the priveleges necessary to maintain repos? | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if he needs more privileges, he needs to ask for warfare or me to do it for him | 21:27 |
| qwazix | freemangordon, re Nokia key see backlog | 21:27 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: ty | 21:27 |
| Woody14619 | And again, AFAIK, even if he did, it would be painful to remove all packages. One at a time.. via web interface. :P | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we plan to considerably adjust those permissions so he can do fixing stuff but not mess up backups etc | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so we can undo any oopsie he might do | 21:28 |
| kerio | that's good practice, regardless of the bureaucratic issue | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we don't assume rogue intentions either | 21:29 |
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| Woody14619 | We should have merlin touch base with Niels though so he understands how to do the reindexing properly if what he's doing isn't sticking... Otherwise, I think we're good on this topic. | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's planned and urgently needed but Niels isn't available | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so for now merlin1991 is investigating the hashsum issue, preparing new packages files locally, and asking warfare to put it to productive, after thorough testing | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're all hoping for X-Fade to eventually show up and speak to us mere mortals | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | K, this should be a simple answer though, as Neils did that at my request 2 or 3 times while I was Council, and it took all of about 10 minutes to do, mainly automated. | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I wish him all the best and may he get well soon, if it's actually him who broke his leg | 21:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | Delayed reply: *Nod* @backups. I'm not worried about it - I'm sure you'll have a good security policy in place. But I'd still like to have a personal understanding so that it's possible to document and/or just in general know what's going on if those of you who do know aren't around at a given time. So I'd like to know what maintainer can do exactly what damage how quickly, and in ... | 21:33 |
| Woody14619 | Again, with the assumption that I read right that he's out with a broken leg... his absense of late is understandable. | 21:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... general what the permissions/privileges of each person is. But I guess that's not urgent for me to figure out the details now. | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: appreciated and needed, yes | 21:33 |
| Woody14619 | Next topic? | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (personal understanding and docs) | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic: errr DNS hidden, check | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic: | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maintainers, merlin, check | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic: | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | Karma/voting? | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo understanding of difference between maintainers and sysops (we don't have administrators on maemo.org) | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I already commented on that one as well, above | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-02-15 20:23:30] <DocScrutinizer05> we will NOT offer sysop status 8or any other status that might allow to mess up maemo.org infra without prior approval from hiFo) | 21:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | Did we address "HiFo misconception/confusion betweem admin/maintainer" as merlin-topic sub-topic already? | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I just do, MentalistTraceur | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin subtopic been about him having maintainer status since months already | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo subtopic is about difference between sysops and maintainers, and what they can/cannot do | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and thus why maintainers are not as much a risk to give them preliminary approval | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they can't do any harm to maemo.org (more than maybe 3h downtime until backups are restored) | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they have no privileges to do that | 21:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm going to quickly switch my N900 from mobile to wifi. | 21:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I suggested to lower the bureaucratic overhead of appointing them to a deferred appproval or rejection by HiFo | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems ivan and tim are d'accord with this practice | 21:40 |
| SD69 | yeah, I'm still here... | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll wait for final verdict after next HiFo meeting for that topic anyway, since for now there are no pending approvals | 21:41 |
| qwazix | Isn't Woody14619 waiting to be approved still? | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh wait, there's still woody | 21:41 |
| Woody14619 | :) I'm in no rush. | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and I suggested to give him even more restricted access than merlin for now, since all he wants to do is look at things to see what's state of matters aiui | 21:42 |
| SD69 | what you are saying sounds fine - it would be nice to get a list of the people and their roles. Not just for Board, but for the community as well to know who to contact for what | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | Nothing I can do will matter much until we get closer to the next election. | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | Actually, I already have looking privs to some reguard. | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SD69: such list is badly needed indeed - alas not even we tech staff have an idea of legacy accounts | 21:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wb MentalistTraceur | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you didn't miss too much | 21:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | N900 really needs a better workflow for switching connections. | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | I have view/commmit access to the svn repo for midguard, but that's detached from the actual production. Would need an operator on occastion to do an svn -update in the right folder to make any changes I do work. :) | 21:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | Well, not really. | 21:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | Idk, whatever. | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/22db5b4cb9 | 21:44 |
| qwazix | SD69, there is some info about maintainers at http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure#Services | 21:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the paste again. | 21:45 |
| Woody14619 | For example: I already know what's killing Karma & voting booth. Just can't fix it. ;) | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SD69: could you help collecting a list of legacy maintainers? like maintainers of wiki, bugs, whatnot? | 21:45 |
| SD69 | wikimaster, bugmaster - hmmm... | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: ##maemo-admin please! | 21:46 |
| * Woody14619 nods. :) | 21:46 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're doing all that stuff via irc on maemo-admin | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | low response times ;-) | 21:47 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, what's the correct way of listing things to be fixed? Filing bugs? | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SD69: yeah, wikimaster bugmaster is fine, but I need the human being behind that, to talk to them | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: usually bugs.maemo.org | 21:48 |
| SD69 | i'm trying to remember... | 21:48 |
| qwazix | ok | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for administration we got a detached roundup to track issues with bugtracker etc ;-) | 21:49 |
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| * qwazix just remembered he can't login to bmo since ages... | 21:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok i guess that's been it mostly with helping HiFo to understand how maemo admin is handling permissions and what's the difference between sysop and maintainer | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and to assure them they never will find a messed up maemo.org due to some unapproved maintainer | 21:51 |
| Woody14619 | bugs is probably linked to garage. And if garage is not authentecating to other vms, that would explain it. | 21:51 |
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| Woody14619 | qwazix: So, if we can fix the garage auth issue, you can probably get into bugs as well. | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | neither will we allow spamming, abusing privacy data (we don't have much of that anyway) or any other evil activity | 21:52 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, let's hope so, for now I'll take notes | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's it for ###HiFo topic then | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | Karma/voting was it | 21:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | for what was listed by you Joerg. | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup, last on my list | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | K, got a quick blurb on that. :) | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | I looked into Karma... computation is done entierly on the Midguard side. The scripts for adding wiki credits and TMo credits are in the midguard vcm, which I can still access. | 21:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | And off the top of my head I think no one added anything else. | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Karma is borked, so we can't do proper votes | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | Currently the wiki credits are not being applied because it's looking for a file to exist in /var somewhere, as wiki & midguard used to be on the same machine. If we can seutp a crossmount or a scp, those will start working again. | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | The TMO one looks like it should be working now, as the mechanism on TMO is actually working (I tested it by hand.) The problem appears to be that account linking was still pointing at internettablettalk.com instead of tmo, which worked until the transfer. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not even referendum to define new karma thresholds | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | Two solutions: Fix the links in everyone's cross-reference in the maemo.org user DB, or fix the script to filter it better than it already is. I'd prefer the earlier, but would settle for the later. :) I can look into doing that, and can work with warfare to get the new scripts into producton as needed. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | given that council's term is more than half thru, we need to look into this soonish | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | Voting: We need to make sure the connection to the DB is accessable. Right now, the connection is not working, thus the blank voting booth. | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | This is probably a DB/ip connection or permissions issue. | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: technical details are fine, but not exactly now. Do you think you can fix it? | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or what would you need to fix it? | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or whom? | 21:56 |
| Woody14619 | Yes, with help of someone with minor admin privs. | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's warfare and me | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sysop privs | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we got no admins | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | Karma is fixable with an scp and an SQL statement (I think) | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | Voting is fixable once we figure out why the SQL server is not talking to the midguard host. | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please discuss it with warfare and me, I think there's no problem to do this on your behalf | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again: maemo-admin chan | 21:58 |
| Woody14619 | (And we should really fix the midguard host to allow logins, so people can change their info if needed, which means fixing garage.m.o) | 21:58 |
| Woody14619 | K. :) | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and #maemo resp #maemo-ssu for general help from other guys | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | All said and done, it's just minor breakages. Should be easy to fix. | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine :-D | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so we're already thru, after only 120 minutes | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | yay? :) | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ###other issues | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any questions anybody forgot to ask? | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any now topics? | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | new* | 22:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | I think none. | 22:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | SD69: Are council and/or community members able to attend Board meetings? | 22:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | Not that this is relevant to this council meeting but just thought of this now. | 22:03 |
| qwazix | Just to have on the back of our minds, when scratchbox has been migrated, we have to modify the sdk installation scripts | 22:03 |
| qwazix | now installation of sdk is a great pain | 22:03 |
| SD69 | yes. it is web-based conferencing, video/audio/chat | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh i almost forgot about that - scratchbox migration gets coordinated by thedead1440 now | 22:04 |
| SD69 | www.concert-oh.com at 1800 tomorrow | 22:04 |
| SD69 | I'd be interested in how the conferencing service works on a maemo device | 22:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: It was fairly painless for me back when I did it, but if enough people don't like it, sure, worth changing. | 22:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | SD69: Okay, thank you. | 22:05 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, it's painful now that the scripts don't work and one has to do it manually | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (scratchbox) since it's basically completely detached from maemo.org and its assets, I plan to grant thedead1440 and and the original owner of SB (juzzi?) sufficient permissions on SB VM so they can set up a proper server for migration, with some help from warfare | 22:06 |
| qwazix | and also download packages one by one and dpkg them as the repo doesn't work | 22:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: ah, gotcha. | 22:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | I thought you meant change the whole install process. | 22:08 |
| qwazix | No, just make it work with the new assets, AFAIK some domains will change | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, I'm semi-afk now, highlight me if my comments/rant are needed ;-D | 22:08 |
| qwazix | I don't think we have to discuss anything else. Is there? | 22:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | Nope. | 22:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | All in favor of meeting officially over? | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and - as usual - full protocol of this meeting available on http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/ | 22:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | And meeting minutes get published sometime between Monday following meeting and indefinitely later, depending on how many people give me a good punt. :P | 22:11 |
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| * kerio punts MentalistTraceur | 22:15 | |
| MentalistTraceur | No reply to "all in favor of meeting officially over?" for five minutes taken to mean no objections, so meeting over. | 22:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | Just for bookkeeping purposes, since practically speaking it kinda ended already. | 22:17 |
| kerio | ###meeting end, let him rest in peace | 22:17 |
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