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| qwazix | hi everybody | 20:03 |
|---|---|---|
| MentalistTraceur | *Waves* | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm here, but cought a flu and will not be able to contribute much productive stuff. I talked with Qwazix and ivgalvez and we agree on general path for migration. So I leave it up to them for today to summarize, i will try to correct details I might find incorrectly stated | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since MentalistTraceur already sent a mail about his non-involvement in planning, we count him as "yay" too, so we got 4 approvals for the plans | 20:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | Well, no, I didn't say I was uninvolved, I said I was not sure how useful I would be. | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, that's what I meant | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I get this as "no objections" but ask qwazix and read last meeting minutes, for what we planned so far | 20:06 |
| qwazix | Sorry, I couldn't make it to read MT's mail so I'm skimming over it today, and up to what I read I couldn't agree more | 20:06 |
| qwazix | s/today/right now/ | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same here | 20:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | Of course, I'd still like to be filled in on what the migration plan you all agreed to is is so I can properly comment/vote in an informed manner, even though if the three of you agree, then we already have a majority agreement either way. | 20:08 |
| qwazix | The general idea is as such: | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nono, not meant to leave you out | 20:09 |
| *** ivgalvez has joined #maemo-meeting | 20:09 | |
| qwazix | 1. try to make board renegotiate the RX-300 boxen deal | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez basically said that's thru | 20:10 |
| ivgalvez | hi | 20:10 |
| ivgalvez | we tried that a few times | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi | 20:10 |
| ivgalvez | we can try again anyway | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: I'm here, but cought a flu and will not be able to contribute much productive stuff. I talked with Qwazix and ivgalvez and we agree on general path for migration. So I leave it up to them for today to summarize, i will try to correct details I might find incorrectly stated | 20:10 |
| qwazix | 2. If that fails put all VMs on the boxen and hope they work | 20:10 |
| qwazix | (DocScrutinizer and I believe they can handle it) | 20:10 |
| qwazix | this solution will require to respec a little bit with regard to HDD size | 20:11 |
| qwazix | either by paying the difference or by exchanging RAM for HDD | 20:11 |
| ivgalvez | we should sabe an extra VM for scratchbox.org | 20:12 |
| ivgalvez | save | 20:12 |
| qwazix | I do have a question though. What happened with the COBS? | 20:12 |
| ivgalvez | although it could be easily trimmed down to share as much resources as possible with maemo.org | 20:12 |
| qwazix | The initial idea of nemein was to put the legacy builders on one box and COBS on the other | 20:12 |
| ivgalvez | qwazix I'm not up to date with COBS status | 20:12 |
| qwazix | Can't we do with one of them instead of both? | 20:13 |
| ivgalvez | at the moment autobuilder is the only way for Fremantle and Diable AFAIK | 20:13 |
| ivgalvez | but Diablo didn't show any new packages for months | 20:13 |
| qwazix | Yeah, probably the latest package is still mine :) | 20:14 |
| ivgalvez | so I think it would be fine if we simply drop it and allow only scp for Diablo and olfer | 20:14 |
| ivgalvez | older | 20:14 |
| MentalistTraceur | Sidequestion: What's COBS stand for? | 20:14 |
| qwazix | Community Open Build System | 20:14 |
| qwazix | ivgalvez, builders don't cost if they're unused | 20:15 |
| qwazix | so no reason to scrap it | 20:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Is that what autobuilder is part of? | 20:15 |
| ivgalvez | HDD space? | 20:15 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, it's what was meant to replace autobuilder | 20:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Ah. | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hdd space is dirt cheap | 20:15 |
| qwazix | see build.pub.meego.com | 20:15 |
| qwazix | ivgalvez, yes, they don't cost much in HDD anyway | 20:15 |
| qwazix | all builders < tmo | 20:16 |
| qwazix | (IIRC) | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | but are all the autobuilders in the same VM? | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | an additional VM doesn't initally cost much either | 20:16 |
| ivgalvez | RAM? | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it will get swapped out if unused AIUI | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm rather sure it cen get set up this way | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hope | 20:17 |
| ivgalvez | ok | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so any downsizing or consolidating or dropping of services is *additional* work right now | 20:18 |
| ivgalvez | FYI I contacted Nokia to ask about the DNS (Nemein was in copy) but no answer yet | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's negotiation between HiFo and Nokia? | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | general | 20:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | Did the boxen (and why you'd want to renegotiate it) ever come up in the e-mails? I'm not remembering anything off the top of my head? | 20:19 |
| ivgalvez | no new communications since pre-holidays | 20:19 |
| mashiara | ivgalvez: I got a reply from Nokia that the DNS thing has finally moved forward and "should be done in a few days" | 20:20 |
| mashiara | this was today. | 20:20 |
| ivgalvez | mashiara: great news! | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: Nemein got order from Nokia to migrate the infra, and they planned 2 RX300 | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi mashiara :-D | 20:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | Indeed great news. | 20:20 |
| mashiara | As for the physical servers, I have a quote here for Supermicro 2027TR-HTRF with two blades populated | 20:20 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, the reason we'd like to get rid of the Rx300 is because they're a liability, they cost too much to host (more than renting equal-specced iron which will be upgraded at will) | 20:20 |
| qwazix | and because they need someone of us to maintain them physically | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Gotcha. | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, thank you. | 20:21 |
| mashiara | The physical machines need not to be RX300, that was just the original suggestion for the build boxes | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 20:22 |
| ivgalvez | right, however Nokia apparently can only donate the hardware instead of just the money, wo we will take what we are offered | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever they are, we'll want to get rid of them rather soonish | 20:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Dang it, googling "rx300" brings up results for the Lexus car model) | 20:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | (/sidenote) | 20:22 |
| mashiara | anyway that supermicro would have Xeon E5-2620 6-core SB-E 2000 MHz on the blades | 20:22 |
| qwazix | mashiara, from your experience, how feasible/logical would it be to buy one machine (better specced) instead of two to save CoLo costs? | 20:22 |
| mashiara | 8x8GB RAM and 4x1TB disk divided equalle between blades | 20:23 |
| mashiara | qwazix: the supermicro is 2U so it would save colo costs | 20:23 |
| qwazix | ok | 20:23 |
| mashiara | even though it has two blades so two separate "machines" | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: great | 20:23 |
| ivgalvez | thanks | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: how much would it cost us to upgarde to 2TB HDD? | 20:24 |
| mashiara | the enclosure has a lot of disk slots for SATA disk so the "optimal" way to get X amount of diskspace with RAID1 requires a bit of calculating | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rough value guesimate | 20:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | ivgalvez: is the current HiFo funding still ~2000 USD total? | 20:25 |
| mashiara | but supposing we just double the amount of those 1TB disks it's 780EUR extra | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 20:26 |
| ivgalvez | MentalistTreaceur, yes according to latest accountability | 20:26 |
| mashiara | DocScrutinizer05: but note that you already have 4TB total space, in RAID1 configuration it's 1TB per blade. | 20:27 |
| qwazix | Given the slowness of nokia and ivgalvez's report that they tried already to renegotiate the purchase of the boxen, maybe it's wiser to skip directly to plan b? | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #maemo interim-dns is "http://mwkn.net/2013/01/community.html and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/DNS-TBD-.etc.hosts" | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^sidenote | 20:28 |
| qwazix | thanks DocScrutinizer05 | 20:28 |
| mashiara | "already" as in in this quote that I have here should you want that HW as your physical machines. | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think 2TB are a tad small to hold all we need | 20:30 |
| qwazix | Aren't those regular sata disks? | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: just out of interest, what's your nominal charge for one vserver in your xen-grid | 20:31 |
| ivgalvez | Indeed 2 TB won't be enough if we receive more assets (Harmattan) from Nokia | 20:31 |
| mashiara | good question... I don't actually know (the pricing is handled by other people...) | 20:31 |
| mashiara | and we generally offer those only to clients who buy consulting services etc | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: could you find out how much Nokia is paying for the hosting right now, resp how much we would need to pay from 2013-03 on? | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: board *urgently* needs _any_ hard quotation | 20:33 |
| mashiara | yes, but not right now. I'll ask bergie to get that info for you | 20:33 |
| ivgalvez | thank you | 20:33 |
| qwazix | Can we draft out a quick plan of action now? Shall I open an etherpad? | 20:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | Question: if we get the Harmattan assets, that's just the Nokia binaries and firmware images and the like, correct? I.e. is there any other forum associated with Harmattan that we'd be taking over? | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: also I found out it's not only me who has a absolute lack of info about who's who and who does what in our *current* maemo infra and orga. I meanwhile found out what's Nemein (I think) but generally we got no idea who's responsible for what here. Could any of you who are those responsible guys bring us up to date who's ferenc, who's x-fade, who works for which company etc pp. I hope you got my point | 20:37 |
| mashiara | current as in the VM setup in our grid or the one Logica is taking down any day now ? | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: there once been forum.meego.com but considered dead | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: the latter | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just recently seen "maemo sysop" as a role description on ferenc's page on tmo | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and some hungarian(?) company he's associated to | 20:40 |
| mashiara | ferenc has done I think most of the sysop:ing alongside X-Fade (Niels) | 20:41 |
| mashiara | I have been basically out of the loop for 1.5 years due to other projects | 20:41 |
| mashiara | Ferenc has his own company that subcontracts to Nokia & Nemein, ditto for X-Fade | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you three were paid by Nemein which in turn charged Nokia? | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 20:42 |
| mashiara | This sub-sub contractor thing stems from the politics inside Nokia | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: Henry said the Nokia budget contained a slice for "knowledge transfer" - could you elaborate who'd accomplish that and what exactly it will look like? | 20:45 |
| mashiara | basically me/ferenc/x-fade would explain some people from the community the setup and how to maintain it | 20:46 |
| mashiara | and answer questions as they arise | 20:46 |
| mashiara | (for some sane amount of time) | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is this budgeted to a number of questions we may ask, to a time period, to an amount of working hours, or would you just try to handle it in a "user-friendly" unlimited way based on your own dedication and involvement to maemo? | 20:48 |
| mashiara | I can't speak for the others but I'm fairly sure we will answer random questions for at least a year, but will not train more than a few people and those should be in at most two batches. | 20:50 |
| mashiara | the actual migration has been so hectic that there has been little time to think about the details of the "knowledge transfer" | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even more to the point, do you know if any of you feels dedicated to maemo so much that we'll continue to see them around and helping in your free time? | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: that's a fairly generous offer already | 20:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | of course we'll not run 15 classes "how to do system administration" with 50 members each ;-) | 20:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | On that note, to those of you in the community/HiFo who will ultimately maintain the infra, please do your best to document and record in an accessible area all of said maintenance knowledge, as you acquire it - as it would be fortunate if, when admins/etc swap out and fade in/out of the community, the new ones had documentation/instructions to go on. | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: that's a nice call, though "adress unknown" | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 20:53 |
| mashiara | as for my free time, can't say much. definitely no time for actual sysadmin stuff, probably will have time to answer occasional questions by email. will not have time to hang around at these meetings regularly | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, appreciated, thanks :-) | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council's (and HiFo's9 *main* problem for now is to find a professional sysop who really knows how to manage that stuff so it doesn't turn into a spam bot box, and who's willing to do this for low or no refund (for now, though things might change when HiFo finds a sponsor) | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could any of my council colleagues start a thread on tmo asking for such person to mail council@maemo.org? | 20:57 |
| qwazix | I can do that. | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: what's status of tmo vserver? were you able to create accounts for chemist, reggie, me? | 21:00 |
| mashiara | I sent you an email earlier today requesting your SSH public key | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah, sorry I cought a flu and not been able to read my mail yet | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 21:01 |
| mashiara | also who's chemist ? :) | 21:02 |
| mashiara | basically so I can request the key from ey too. | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | R.Schiller | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | future vBulletin maintainer | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | are the mail services already migrated? So mail to e.g. council@maemo.org will continue to work when Nokia finally sorts the annoying DNS issue? | 21:05 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer05 | 21:05 | |
| mashiara | all has been migrated since 28th of december or so. | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine! :-) | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even autobuilder? | 21:06 |
| mashiara | yes, it's in a VM | 21:06 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer05 | 21:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 21:06 |
| mashiara | (it was supposed to go on the physical machines but...) | 21:06 |
| mashiara | so all waits for DNS | 21:06 |
| ivgalvez | perfect | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: many thanks for awesome work :-D | 21:07 |
| mashiara | ferenc and X-fade did most of the actual work, I have just clocked a ton of hours on trying to keep on top of everything | 21:08 |
| mashiara | "project management" | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | Well, thanks to all three of you. | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mashiara: (ton of hours) I know what you're talking about :-D | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | during last 2 weeks I learnt more new things about maemo.org infra and orga than the last 4 years before | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly about related non-maemo stuff | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like mxr.maemo.org | 21:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | Huh. Never new that existed (mxr.maemo.org) | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: what's status of cssu repos? | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: could you verify they got migrated? | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or do they need to...? NFC | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry folks, I have to leave this meeting, my headache gets worse, damn this flu | 21:16 |
| mashiara | get well soon | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 21:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | Second that, get well soon. | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, well, qwazix, ivgalvez, anything else to discuss? | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | If not, we can call this meeting over. | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah one sidenote: the "new" wiki works again, I'd ask council at alrge and HiFo to update whatever due there | 21:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh wait, qwazix, you wanted to write up the migration plan properly, right? | 21:20 |
| qwazix | I'd like to make a more concrete version of the plan | 21:20 |
| qwazix | yeah | 21:20 |
| qwazix | but maybe it's better to write it and then send it to the ML | 21:20 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05 get well soon | 21:20 |
| qwazix | and arrange a mid-week meeting for a bit of etherpading on it | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: thanks | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: send that plan, i'll read over it and comment | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I didn't manage to write it up yet | 21:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* Mailing list is probably best, although we could etherpad the first draft now (call the meeting over, those who want can write up the plan on etherpad, then we send it to ML and go from there.) | 21:22 |
| qwazix | okay,\ | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out | 21:22 |
| ivgalvez | bye | 21:24 |
| mashiara | bye, ping me via email if you need something from me. | 21:24 |
| *** mashiara has left #maemo-meeting | 21:25 | |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, qwazix, if you're writing it up, I'm interested in the link, if only just to read along. | 21:26 |
| qwazix | I'm not doing that now | 21:34 |
| MentalistTraceur | Ah. K. | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | just wanted to congratulate the council on what looks like two successful and useful meetings surrounding hard topics in a row :) | 21:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Thank you. | 21:39 |
| qwazix | Thanks, Stskeeps | 21:42 |
| Pali | do you know what happened with COBS? | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | which one? | 21:46 |
| MentalistTraceur | @Pali: I can't say for sure, because I'm not confident I have a full understanding of the migration plan, but judging from the above comments, I think it's going to be set up eventually, but may or may not be useable for a while? Better to ask one of the other councilors, as I was unable to make the previous discussion where the migration plan was first being decided. | 21:51 |
| Pali | Stskeeps, that for maemo | 21:52 |
| Pali | ivgalvez, do you have some info? | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | as in the maemo.org one? thought it was temporary/development one | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | did harmattan builds stop working? | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | on build.pub.meego.com | 21:55 |
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| MentalistTraceur | New email just came from Reggie to council + board + others-involved in the "TMO migration update" topic. Reggie says he'll be ready to move things on the 16th (Wednesday), at which point there will be some downtime while the DNS changes propagate. Just announcing it here so if anyone has strong objections against that date, can speak up. | 23:23 |
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