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| MentalistTraceur | Alright, well, it's 7 minutes into scheduled meeting time and no one has said anything. Unless I missed something, there is still a meeting today, right? | 20:07 |
|---|---|---|
| kerio | i told you last time, we all moved to windows phone | 20:07 |
| kerio | also, i thought you're supposed to begin these meetings | 20:08 |
| qwazix | Hi MT, | 20:09 |
| qwazix | sorry I got distracted in the other window... | 20:10 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: I SUMMON THEE, DEMON | 20:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | @kerio: Yes, formally, hence why I was asking if people where around. | 20:10 |
| qwazix | So, do we have an agenda? | 20:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | As much as I am capable of holding a meeting with myself, there'd be not much point if others weren't present. | 20:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | Also, my apologies for not making minutes for the last meeting, since I missed it; I'm thinking I'll put them out at the same time (though in separate posts) as the meeting minutes for this one. | 20:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I have nothing to propose for the meeting agenda currently. | 20:13 |
| qwazix | Not many things to make minutes of, from the previous meeting, it was more of a discussion. ivgalvez brought up some news which he already documented in board blog, tmo and ml | 20:14 |
| kerio | the wiki is still borked, can we do something like that? | 20:14 |
| kerio | *about | 20:14 |
| qwazix | kerio, ivgalvez and me have been trying to contact X-Fade for that matter but AFAIK there was no response until now. | 20:15 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, I do not have something new for the agenda either, apart from noting that the CC devices issues are still unresolved. | 20:17 |
| qwazix | We are waiting from the board's Nokia contact to reply about the matter. | 20:17 |
| qwazix | I don't know what else we can do if there is no reply in a reasonable amount of time. | 20:18 |
| Woody14619 | start random calling of Nokia numbers? ;) | 20:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | For the record: I have been contacted by a talk.maemo.org member (reinob, good guy from my interactions with him), because he wanted to discuss the Estel ban. I think there's a decent subset of the community that feels Estel's ban from TMO was politically motivated (admin/former-council v. Estel hostility), which is what the member contacting me wanted to know about - i.e. if it was or what can be done about if it in | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | deed was. I think, there isn't need to make this part of the agenda for now, but I'll tell reinob what I gathered about the situation, and figured I'd let it be known here. | 20:21 |
| qwazix | Hi, Woody14619, I really don't know... | 20:21 |
| Woody14619 | We do have an country code/exchange that's common for most of the folks now gone. ;) Maybe can even find Elop's extension? ;) | 20:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Sorry that took so long to type, I started when we were on the "what's on the agenda" part of the discussion, but on N900, so took a little. | 20:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/a little/a little while/ | 20:22 |
| Woody14619 | Much of Estel's issue is just that... Estel's issue... | 20:22 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, imagine CC winners receiving lumia 800's | 20:22 |
| Woody14619 | For the record, there is an appeal process when you're banned. The forum rules explicitly state that creating a second account is cause for a ban of one month. | 20:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* | 20:23 |
| Woody14619 | Estel knew this, and still made a second account to post from. | 20:23 |
| kerio | i think that that ban has elapsed, though | 20:23 |
| Woody14619 | kerio: Yes, the 3-day ban (which one could argue *may* or may not have been "politically motivated") has expired. But the current ban is based on Estel breaking forum rules.... nothing more, nothing less. | 20:24 |
| Woody14619 | If I were to go in and create a second account and post from it (not even being banned right now), it would be grounds for banning me for a month. | 20:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* I think as more people are made aware of the actual reason for the ban, we'll have less of this. | 20:27 |
| Woody14619 | As for his current ban, AFAIK: It started on or about the 11th. I believe that the ban system is automated, requiring no intereaction to re-enable an account by moderators (but I may be wrong on that). | 20:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | Currently we have members who were at least partially positive towards estel finding out about as they stumble upon the fact, then getting information piecemeal from various threads and/or estel directly. | 20:28 |
| Woody14619 | So, he may in fact be back in a few days... | 20:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/about as/about it as/ | 20:29 |
| Woody14619 | And if he does come back, you can be sure he's going to whip up a web of lies to cast it like he was ejected for political reasons. | 20:29 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I am not sure as during the ban he created a third account, so the ban might actually have been extended. | 20:29 |
| Woody14619 | qwazix: True... but the first ban was only a 3 day "cool off" ban. The second/third accounts happened within a few days of each other. | 20:30 |
| Woody14619 | I also recall Reggie metioning the posability of an IP ban... but I'm not sure if it was actually done or not. That may not be automated, even if the account bans are. | 20:31 |
| Woody14619 | He also declaired he would never return to TMO... but then he's not been true to his word before, so... With any luck he's found another forum to pester, and has forgotten about us. ;) | 20:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Of course, Estel will also claim the 3rd account wasn't his, just the 2nd one was.) Anyway, I just wanted this noted so that it is on record that A. I was contacted by someone who hadn't know estel was banned until a week or so ago, and B. so that the current council is aware/reminded that there's still this matter under the surface in the community, that isn't currently getting discussed, but depending on how thing | 20:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | s go, it might flare up again. | 20:33 |
| Woody14619 | Good to keep aware. | 20:34 |
| Woody14619 | Wait, isn't the 12th the Mayan "end of the world" day? OGM! It was all about Estel's ban! :D | 20:35 |
| Stskeeps | +1 | 20:35 |
| Woody14619 | Doah! Dislexia got me again.. it's the 21st. :P | 20:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, so, basically, so far we've noted the estel thing and that, as before, infrastructure continues to have issues and we still can't do anything about it, right? | 20:37 |
| qwazix | Unfortunately this sounds right... | 20:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh, right, also the CC problem devices are also still stuck in limbo as well. | 20:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | Is this always how powerless the council ended up being when Nokia-side problems existed, or were things different, once? | 20:40 |
| Woody14619 | I'm going to say yes and no. | 20:40 |
| Woody14619 | During my term, for the most part, yes. In past terms, when Nokia was more responsive (and Quim was around) no. | 20:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* That would've been more or less my guess. | 20:41 |
| Woody14619 | Council has always been about narrowing the flood waters into the garden hose. Funnel down the voice of the community to have a sane set of people to talk to Nokia for them. | 20:42 |
| Woody14619 | We have/had access to some of the levers semi-directly, via good standing with X-Fade and Reggie mainly. | 20:44 |
| Woody14619 | This is one of the reasons Estel and I got off to a bad start early in our term. I was chatting with people, asking for things, and seeing progress. He would then bust in, *demand* answers and actions, and people would shut down. | 20:45 |
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| Woody14619 | FWIW: Most of this is documented... Thanks to having meeting minutes and logs. | 20:49 |
| Woody14619 | One example being the COBS project, which was moving along nicely. All COBS meetings were held here, in this logged channel. | 20:50 |
| qwazix | Ah, I almost forgot, what do you think about the proposal of making the Nexus 7 a reference maemo device? | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | not unfeasible | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | mer + cordia could probably work nicely on there | 20:52 |
| qwazix | Sure there are hurdles like binary blobs etc, but there are many things that are on our side | 20:52 |
| qwazix | like wide availability, nice price | 20:53 |
| qwazix | many maemo guys already got one | 20:53 |
| qwazix | and proper specs | 20:53 |
| Woody14619 | If there are hard-core development people with rev-eng experience backing this (freemangordon, itsnotabigtruck, etc) then sure, let them go for it. But often people coming up with ideas like this don't know the effort involved in doing this. | 20:54 |
| Woody14619 | It's not trivial, by any means. | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | you don't really need to rev-eng it :P | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | the blobs work perfectly with x11 on those | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | some even run nemo on it | 20:55 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, it's not trivial but it's not a mountain either. I was even thinking the simplistic "just build cordia gtk3 on ubuntu which is already running on it" | 20:55 |
| qwazix | (Not as good as mer + cordia but easier) | 20:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | Personally, I don't know if that's something we have the authority to say or do; Hildon Foundation has, as its purpose, the furthering of such things, but that seems like more or a board than a council matter. That said, my personal opinion, is that I have nothing against it, and it sounds from a cursory look inot the matter like it's feasible. Personally, it doesn't interest me too much, but who am I to stop people | 20:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | from doing it if they want. | 20:56 |
| Woody14619 | I see no issue with having people take a whack at it. But unless there are real developers behind the idea, it's just not going to work. | 20:57 |
| qwazix | I am thinking a process like a. check out if people are interested | 20:57 |
| qwazix | b. if amongst interested people there are at least 3 with proven capabilities | 20:57 |
| qwazix | c. gather some money and ship them one N7 each with the obligation to finish a task on it | 20:58 |
| qwazix | tasks would be (depending on approach) 1. get mer running 2. build cordia 3. make boot images or | 20:59 |
| qwazix | 1. build cordia on ubuntu 2. tweak ubuntu to behave like a tablet and not like a pc 3. create boot images or "maemo" ppa to install over existing ubuntu install | 21:00 |
| qwazix | Thus I agree that it's not gonna happen by itself and that's why I propose to kickstart it. | 21:01 |
| Woody14619 | Interesting concept. I see no reason to smack it down if someone wants to try championing it. I just don't know if Council needs to officially declare/sanction it. | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | If it's going to happen it will be more about those leading it than blessing from Council. That said, the mear fact that someone in Council is presenting it could be enough to give it the tinge of "support" it needs. :) | 21:03 |
| qwazix | Someone needs to organize it, and it would never seem legit enough if it's not the council or board. A group of trusted people must gather the money, decide who's worthy of a device and who's possibly going to deliver results and ship the devices (or the money) | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | But then, that's all up to you 5 now. ;) My 0.00001 vote is "meh?" ;) | 21:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | The biggest advantage I see to council endorsing it is that it gives sociological weight to it that the project might not have otherwise. Assuming the community is more likely to donate money to a community project if it recieves the community council approval. | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | If the movement gets to the point of money collection and what not, sure Council can act as the middle man. | 21:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | But at the end of the day, it's the developers who bother actually making it happen that determine if it will or not, | 21:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | and they'll do it themselves, with or without council announcing it. | 21:06 |
| qwazix | That's true, but it's different if you know others are working on the same project | 21:06 |
| Woody14619 | My fear is, if you sanction it without community input, you'll get people donating, and then have nobody who wants to do the work. | 21:06 |
| qwazix | Woody14619, I think it has to be made the other way around | 21:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | Exactly @Woody14619's comment. | 21:07 |
| qwazix | Find the developers willing to do the work and then ask for donations | 21:07 |
| qwazix | If there's no interest in the first phase the project get's canned and all is well :) | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | So. :) Do that. Kick off a poll thread, see how the community reacts, and if anyone in the development community is interested in pursuing it. | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | (eg. Take this converstation to #maemo-ssu... ;) | 21:08 |
| qwazix | hmm, not a bad idea at all. | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | @Woody14619, I was about to say almost that, you beat me to it tho. | 21:09 |
| Woody14619 | If it get to the donation phase, Council can bless/mediate it. If not, hopefully no harm. (Assuming we don't have people rushing out and getting N7's then drifting off on those... ;) | 21:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | I would've suggested also making a council blog post letting people know that there is a possibility of using the Nexus 7 as such, "just so interested parties in the community are aware". | 21:10 |
| Woody14619 | I would think a bullet in the Council Minutes would suffice... A whole blog post seems a bit much. But either way... | 21:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* Reasonable. | 21:11 |
| qwazix | Ok I can do that as long as there is no objections, MentalistTraceur, please state this in the minutes, so that if any of the missing councillors thinks otherwise he can protest | 21:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | Either way, as there's only two councilors actively on here right now, I don't think we should do anything other than note it in the minutes. | 21:12 |
| Woody14619 | This, btw, is another reason I wanted Council separate from Board. Council can do things like this... reflected from the community. Board, even if they got this pulse item, has no time to pursue opportunities like this. | 21:12 |
| qwazix | I think a blog post allows to describe the reasons behind this move, and the current state (ubuntu booting and working fine on it, nemo able to run on it etc) | 21:12 |
| qwazix | It's not "just another android" device, that's why I'm bringing it up and I'd like this to be clear, and not be quickly dismissed as a "I want to run maemo on my toaster" thread | 21:14 |
| Woody14619 | Again, just the fact that someone prominent in the community (and in this case, in Council) is bringing it up would be enough to make people take notice. ;) | 21:15 |
| Woody14619 | K, well, smack this horse on the ass and get it moving. I'm off to test some new camera firmware that just hit my inbox. 0x2B-rd time's a charm, I hope... | 21:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Aside: All toasters should run Maemo though.) | 21:16 |
| Woody14619 | +2 (slots, one for each piece of toast!) | 21:16 |
| qwazix | I'd love to eat a nice slice with a maemo logo toasted on it :) | 21:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, I think that's all we have to discuss for now, I'm ready to wrap up if you are, qwazix. | 21:16 |
| qwazix | Yep. I think that's all. | 21:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, great. *Waves* I'm off. Minutes draft will be sent out in a few hours, prob'ly. | 21:18 |
| qwazix | bye! | 21:18 |
| kerio | qwazix: but i *do* want to run maemo on my toaster! | 21:25 |
| qwazix | kerio, who doesn't but we all got different toasters, so it's rarely a valid community project | 21:26 |
| qwazix | So I suggest that if we manage to get it on the nexus, get two of them, put a slice of bread between them and put them in the oven. | 21:27 |
| qwazix | Makeshift maemo toaster :) | 21:28 |
| qwazix | You could even try to squeeze a slice between the N900 screen and keyboard but I wouldn't recommend it | 21:28 |
| kerio | qwazix: when you say maemo, do you mean maemo fremantle? | 21:30 |
| kerio | because i really, really like hildon-desktop as it is in fremantle | 21:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Same, btw, I am a fremantle fan myself. Though I wouldn't be averse to some modifications to hildon desktop) | 21:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright, I have to log out for the time being. | 21:38 |
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| qwazix | kerio, when I say maemo I basically mean hildon-desktop, the one in fremantle | 21:52 |
| qwazix | (the old one was cool too, but it's really similar to unity and now it looks outdated) | 21:52 |
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