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| ZogG_laptop | Is there meeting today? | 21:06 |
|---|---|---|
| *** NielDK has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:06 | |
| ZogG_laptop | NielDK: hey | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | NielDK: is there meeting today? | 21:07 |
| NielDK | helli all | 21:07 |
| NielDK | if any shows up, yes | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm here :P | 21:07 |
| NielDK | :) | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw so council and bod are chosen? | 21:08 |
| kerio | the council is... idk | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | kerio: hey | 21:08 |
| kerio | after yesterday's bomb... | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | bomb? | 21:09 |
| NielDK | well, not so many nominees unfortunately | 21:09 |
| kerio | ZogG_laptop: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1276405#post1276405 onwards | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: are u in or not | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | saw that | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel is what annoing me | 21:10 |
| kerio | yeah, he does that | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | and the problem is that everyone already see that and understand but he doesn't give up | 21:11 |
| NielDK | wish we could spend the energy on moving forward | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | respect for stuborn character, though it's stupid nd childish :P | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | NielDK: if there is meetingi would ask what we can done about it | 21:12 |
| kerio | where's woody? | 21:12 |
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| ZogG_laptop | on personal level of community to administrative | 21:12 |
| ivgalvez | hi | 21:12 |
| NielDK | Woody is out for a lot of work | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | o/ | 21:13 |
| ivgalvez | I could escape from work | 21:13 |
| NielDK | hi ivgalvez | 21:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | as it turns a lot of threads in shit load argues :P | 21:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | ivgalvez: hey | 21:13 |
| ivgalvez | I'm having a lot of work lately | 21:13 |
| ivgalvez | sorry for the delay | 21:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | i got a job so i do too :P | 21:14 |
| NielDK | no worries, was late also | 21:14 |
| ivgalvez | so we have the problems with elections | 21:14 |
| NielDK | yes | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: ping | 21:15 |
| ivgalvez | first of all I want to apologize for nominating DocScrutinizer05 | 21:15 |
| ivgalvez | as it has turned to be yet another problem for eveyone | 21:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | meh | 21:15 |
| ivgalvez | he has been in charge even less than Estel! | 21:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think there was miss understanding in between | 21:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | both meant good things but just didn't hear each other :P | 21:16 |
| ivgalvez | OK, let's begin the meeting | 21:17 |
| NielDK | good | 21:17 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: hey | 21:17 |
| ivgalvez | just in time Woody14619 | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | o/ Woody14619 | 21:17 |
| NielDK | :) | 21:17 |
| ivgalvez | we were about to start | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | Sorry for lateness | 21:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: you all came almost at same time :P | 21:18 |
| ivgalvez | #Start Maemo Council meeting | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | Am in a hanger, so signal may suck | 21:18 |
| ivgalvez | Agenda: | 21:18 |
| ivgalvez | 1. Elections | 21:18 |
| ivgalvez | what else? | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | bylaws? | 21:18 |
| ivgalvez | I think it's going to be almost everything around this subject | 21:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think we should split that | 21:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | 1)council 2)bod | 21:19 |
| ivgalvez | About elections | 21:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | so? | 21:20 |
| ivgalvez | we have asked Andrew Flegg for advice about the situation | 21:20 |
| Woody14619 | board election will happen, reguardless. | 21:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean split the topics | 21:20 |
| NielDK | yes, lets start with council election to avoid confusion | 21:21 |
| ivgalvez | Well I'd like first to talk about Andrews comments | 21:21 |
| ivgalvez | as they are of interest to everyone | 21:21 |
| ivgalvez | and apply to both topics | 21:22 |
| Woody14619 | he replied? | 21:22 |
| ivgalvez | yep | 21:22 |
| ivgalvez | About Mentalist Traceur joining late self nomination | 21:23 |
| Woody14619 | Got no notice. Dumb N900, supposed to pinf me on new mail. | 21:23 |
| ivgalvez | let me resend it to you | 21:23 |
| kerio | that's what you deserve for using modest :P | 21:24 |
| ivgalvez | actually I supported MT joining the Council, officialy or not, as it would be useflu to have more hands for work | 21:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | this problem is still in harmattan :P | 21:24 |
| ivgalvez | Joerg_rw suggested nominations be re-opened to allow him to enter. | 21:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | I didn't cross him a lot but from few posts of his on TMO i would say he is intelegent and knows how to speak | 21:25 |
| ivgalvez | Andrew comments that "The election was well advertised and if someone misses the nomination period, they're unlikely to be involved | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez | enough to be an active council member." | 21:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it might help to have someone administrative ho can put trolls down | 21:26 |
| ivgalvez | we have discussed what options do we have at this point | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | So, he's going to option 1. | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't see how it works | 21:27 |
| ivgalvez | The options seen before us would see to be: | 21:27 |
| ivgalvez | 1> Accept the withdraws. Board of 3 is elected of 5, Council nomination period reopened and extends. | 21:27 |
| ivgalvez | 2> Deny the withdraws. Elections for Board happen as 5 of 6, with one "problematic" candidate. Consider Council as having already been formed at | 21:27 |
| ivgalvez | the end of nominations (as no election was required) and view Joerg's leaving as him stepping down, leaving us with a Council of 2. | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | maybe current council would vote for it? | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | NielDK, have you read the mail (2 paths?) | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | nm, Ivan pasted | 21:28 |
| NielDK | yes I read it | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | opinion? | 21:29 |
| kerio | i thought the council of 2 would make for an automatic extension | 21:29 |
| NielDK | Personally, I say stick with what was (well) announced | 21:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | where was it announced? | 21:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | while they had argue and everyone was stressed? | 21:30 |
| Woody14619 | NielDK not really the question. Do we accept withdraw? | 21:30 |
| ivgalvez | please focus | 21:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't think those decisions were made in best way | 21:30 |
| Woody14619 | Zogg: See tmo election thread for info | 21:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: you mean the one without argue? ( Sorry i got job and barely checked TMO few last days) | 21:31 |
| ivgalvez | as the situation is different for Council and Board | 21:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | so i may missed it, i just saw the arguing thread | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ivgalvez: I've definitely NEVER been in charge | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | If we accept withdraws, path is clear. Council nominations extend, separate elections, Board is 3 of 5 | 21:32 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05: naughty boy, you have been in charge for x->0 seconds | 21:33 |
| Woody14619 | If we deny, path is clear, Council stands as 2, Board is 5 of 6 w/ Doc on ballot. | 21:33 |
| ivgalvez | Board has five nominees | 21:33 |
| ivgalvez | right | 21:33 |
| ivgalvez | maybe that's the best way to go | 21:34 |
| ivgalvez | I mean extend Council election | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | where in election rules is written there will be no election if there are less then five candidates? | 21:34 |
| ivgalvez | and keep Board election | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | I/Jaffa voted accept. SD/Ivan went reject | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | Doc: if under 3, nominations continue | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | if under 5, 3 are elected | 21:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if >=3, those 3 with **most votes* get elected! | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | if less equal 5, 3 | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | **elected* | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | otherwise 5 | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | yes? and? | 21:36 |
| ivgalvez | I have to say that a Boar of 3 seems worse to me than a Board of 5 | 21:36 |
| ivgalvez | Board | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's not been any council election yet, ergo nobody been in duty | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/duty/charge/ | 21:37 |
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| Woody14619 | yes, why I think 1 is correct. | 21:38 |
| NielDK | (also here lousy connection) | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | re nieldk | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rules clearly state >>If fewer than 5 candidates stand for election, the 3 with the most votes are elected to the council.<< | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | re: NielDK not really the question. Do we accept withdraw? | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this implires there'll be proper vote | 21:38 |
| ivgalvez | DocScrutinizer05, please for the sake of all, reconsider withdrawing, that would allow an election of 5 candidates to Board | 21:40 |
| ivgalvez | without need to argue any more | 21:40 |
| NielDK | Woody14619, I think thats what I answred. No, we should not accept the withdrawal | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I don't feel like giving the fool and whipping boy | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and sd69 telling me "loser, you're already council, you can't withdraw" makes me angry and show him I can anyway | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | doc rules also clearly state based on nominations | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that shitstorm on TMO convinced me I don't want to stand this any day longer | 21:42 |
| ivgalvez | OK, it's up to us | 21:42 |
| ivgalvez | I vote we don't accept withdrawals until election closed | 21:43 |
| ivgalvez | so we keep on voting for Board | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do whatever you like, as that's what you do anyway | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | then I am outnumbered | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | evidently | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | doc, I am AGREEING with you | 21:43 |
| ivgalvez | SD69 also supported this option | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | suuure | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's the reason why I'm out | 21:44 |
| Woody14619 | fuck you | 21:44 |
| ivgalvez | we need to move on, there is no time for tese silly games | 21:44 |
| NielDK | agree | 21:45 |
| ivgalvez | and as usual at this time I am in a hurry | 21:45 |
| Woody14619 | so, 3 to 1 | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | neither has me time to be part of your silly games | 21:45 |
| Woody14619 | Board election is 5 of 6, council is 2. | 21:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | so council elected? | 21:46 |
| Woody14619 | I disagree, but will not stand against majority of council | 21:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | maybe than ut mentalist instead doc there or something? it's really not the best time to be right but to be smart | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | isn't that funny how you bend the election rules however you feel makes most use to you? | 21:47 |
| ivgalvez | areyou talking to me? | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to all those who think there's already a council elected | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | would't be an issue if you weren't a quitter. | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while you refuse to accept a late nomination, you are ignoring ther fact there's *no* mentioning of voting won't happen on 4 or 3 candidates | 21:49 |
| ivgalvez | OK guys I need to leave now, please ping me by email if there is anything else to discuss | 21:49 |
| ivgalvez | sorry | 21:49 |
| NielDK | ivgalvez, ol | 21:50 |
| NielDK | ok | 21:50 |
| Woody14619 | doc, did you object to no voting for 2 of last 3 council? | 21:50 |
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| Woody14619 | there have been 2 Council elected without votes Q2/Q4 2010 | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm a quitter since sd59 made me regret my willingness to work with guys who bend the rules like some of you do. My plan origally been to force nomination extention and _not_ quit board. But SD69 and some vocal others convinced me I'm not the right guy for this elite bunch | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | FWIW, I agree with you. Board should be 3 of 5, Council should reopen nom | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | based on your recent actions, I agree. | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good luck with your board of 5 if I'm one of them | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after vote | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | another reason I wanted 3 of 5 | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | but w/ a Council of 4 and a dispute on ruling, Council went 3 to 1. | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're aware you as well could've nominated abill_uk and fake his accept and revoke | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | mailer spoofing is trivial, so? | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with the 3 or 5, I actually agree, I pondered that for several hours yesterday | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | As does Jaffa | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think we had a reason when we decided on not accepting 4 equal heads in any such entity | 21:56 |
| Woody14619 | But even if we consider Jaffa as stand in for nokia rep, 2 vs 3. | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, what can I say? After all it doesn't matter an angstrom what *I* do now | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | same boat. | 21:57 |
| NielDK | boy this is realky a waste of time | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't need me avidently, and for sure a lot of people don't even want me | 21:58 |
| NielDK | seems like noone realky cares about the future if our community | 21:58 |
| Woody14619 | we need and want anyone willing to help. | 21:58 |
| NielDK | hear | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, all I can say is "sorry for not refusing when I had the chance to, sorry for considering we should not alienate volunteers for council" | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: SD69 made utterly clear you don't need to get elected to help as volunteer | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | which is true | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so *shrug* | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter in the end | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | as it stood, with 5 of 6 before I figured I would be not elected | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you got your elections done, all that counts | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | given my time constraints | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | still planned on helping where I could | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | where it 3 of 5, can guarantee I would not be in 3. | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | but 5 of 6 with you screaming "I am not here!".... | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | anyway, a plane awaits install. I must go | 22:03 |
| NielDK | end of neeting then | 22:04 |
| Woody14619 | #end Maemo Council meetings (Ivan did not close?) | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if SD69 had started *thinking* and pointed to the "but that's FOUR then!" probably things would've been different | 22:04 |
| NielDK | ok, take care Woody | 22:04 |
| Woody14619 | again, FWIW, it was leaning pro reopening before your power play. | 22:05 |
| NielDK | DocScrutinizer05, right, unfortunately I would say, there is too much spitting going on | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | You forcing things tiped others against you | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again *shrug* | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | so you are not a "innocent" as you play | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I tried to follow election rules as *I* understand them | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | I get that | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | and I agree | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | withdrawing extends nomination period, then I can join in again | 22:07 |
| NielDK | that is true, forvall | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | but the tone and level pissed people off | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | making the offer would have been enough | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but as all this hate now hitting the cieling, I'm not one of this crew anymore, definitely | 22:08 |
| Woody14619 | pushing it in a "do it my way or else" tone set people agains you | 22:08 |
| NielDK | sadly, yes | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not "my way", that's the only sane way to real election rules | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read* | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then SD69 comes and tells me "we invented a rule that declared council as already elected, and we ignore to suggestion to extend nomination period, due to that fact" | 22:10 |
| Woody14619 | again, I agree. But I am 1, not 3. | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | anyway, back to work | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | thanks all for coming. | 22:11 |
| NielDK | likewise | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you bent 2 or 3 election rules, or invented new ones, to not take in a fourth late candidate while last term all election been late and nobody but me thought that's any problem | 22:12 |
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| NielDK | not going to play with you DocScrutinizer05 in this game, going to attend my wife now, but I really hope you get your senses back. | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | If fewer than 5 candidates stand for election, the 3 with the most votes are elected to the council. | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please quote where it's mentioning those "votes" are generated by anything else but a real vote | 22:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. what amkes you think you're allowed to quit vote? | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and to declare council as elected same minute nomination period ended? | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not, sir! | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly, you'll do what serves *you* best, ignoring common sense in written election rules, and I couldn't care less. The result will not differ anyway | 22:17 |
| * kerio needs more popcorn | 22:24 | |
| ZogG_laptop | kerio: pass some here | 22:49 |
| kerio | /dcc send ZogG_laptop popcorn.food | 22:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 22:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: i think you over reacted somewhere in the beggining and it warmed to this point. Same with woody and others. | 22:50 |
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