IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Friday, 2012-08-03

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ivgalvezSeems that eveyone is on vacaition20:58
ivgalvezX-Fade ping20:59
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ivgalvez~seen X-Fade21:03
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Woody14619Sorry for the late arrival.21:08
SD69i just got here myself21:08
Woody14619ping ivgalvez21:08
ZogG_laptopi just restarted comp and it reminded me of maemo meeting =P21:08
Woody14619Ok, so I've been a touch out of the loop.....21:09
Woody14619Work went into frantic mode, and I can't stay long, as I still have stuff going on.  Going to be a busy weekend I think.21:09
SD69woody14619: me too21:09
SD69super busy lately21:09
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: not realted to that, but lately meetings are less active21:09
ZogG_laptopmaybe there are not mny topics, but still21:10
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: hey21:10
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Woody14619We have a multi-million dollar contract hinging on a deliverable that changed last week, so.... :P21:10
ivgalvezhi all21:10
ivgalvezI thought I was alone21:10
* vi__ bump crash!21:10
Woody14619Ok.. So, lets get this rolling shall we? :)21:10
vi__excuse me, I will just sit up the back here.21:11
Woody14619#start Maemo Council meeting21:11
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Woody14619On the agenda for today, we have:21:11
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Woody146191> Update on bylaws and presentation/setup for NFP21:11
Woody146192> Infrastructure migration issues21:12
Woody146193> Jolla questions and representation21:12
Woody146194> Misc topics21:12
Woody14619Topic 1: (Bylaw presentation)21:13
SD69on bylaws, I looked but was unsure how exactly to change first Board21:13
Woody14619In what reguard?21:13
ZogG_laptopdo you need to change? what is the reason to change?21:13
SD69are we agreed that we propose that council members are designated as initial Board?21:13
Woody14619Zogg: In order to have a group to handle handoff from Nokia, we have to setup a new legal entity.21:14
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: i know that, i don't get why he wants to change the board proposal21:14
ivgalvezI thought that next elected Council will be first board21:14
Woody14619Zogg: That requires having bylaws, which technically the current structure doesn't really have nailed down well.21:14
Woody14619SD69: I was of the understanding that the election of the first board and the next Council would happen in tandem.21:14
ivgalvezvoted at the same time than Legal Entity bylaws referendum21:15
ivgalvezWoody14619: yes I had the same idea21:15
Woody14619And that running for one would not preclude (or mandate) one from running for the other.21:15
ZogG_laptopbtw i still propose to devide power. maaybe to make devs representor part of board (extra member)21:16
ivgalvezThat's up th any dev to run for board21:16
Woody14619I do think eventually the need for Council will drop away, but for the first cycle it make sense to keep old and new.21:16
ZogG_laptopi'm just worried of last politic issue and affraid of power games21:17
Woody14619I don't think that's going to change the bylaws as they're written though.. Since it only states that the first board is to be elected in the same mannor as the current Council.21:17
SD69Do we want to delay the new entity until an election?21:17
Woody14619Zogg: There will always be power games when there is power to be had.21:17
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keriooh, neat21:18
Woody14619SD69: No. I don't think we want to do that.  But at the current rate, there probably won't be a need to.21:18
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: never thought of being council as power, it's more responsibility, that i for eample do not want21:18
SD69An initial Board has to be determined at the time that the NFP is created.21:18
Woody14619zogg: You and I agree on that.  Others have seen it differently.21:18
ivgalvezSo then the question is: to form the legal entity as soon as possible with current Council or set it up with first Board elected and paired with referendum21:19
SD69So, a transitional Board lasting a short period of time and then one that is elected?21:19
ZogG_laptopmaybe you can make election earlier so Board will work on forming the future and current will help making it as smooth as possible?21:19
SD69any election takes at least 1 month...21:20
Woody14619sd69: My understanding is that to get the bylaws for the new NFP established, we're going to want to hold an election for approval anyway, yes?21:20
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: btw i think it's little bit unfair for them, but maybe we can ask the oldschool council memebers to run for election for first time, those who had most exp.21:20
Woody14619zogg: you are free to ask anyone you like to run.  Most of the older folks are gone or not interested...21:21
ivgalvezwe must decide and set up dates for that transition, and publish the bylaws in Coucil blog21:21
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ZogG_laptopbut povbot is not here - no log21:37
Woody14619well, yes, but some are lurkers that pipe up on occasion. ;)21:37
ivgalvezperfect, so let's move on to next step21:37
Woody14619Ok, lets get those bylaws updated, and up there asap and get things moving on that.21:38
SD69sorry for my delay on bylaws, been very busy21:38
Woody14619Topic 2: Infrastructure migration21:38
ZogG_laptopi think first review by community ASAP before changes21:39
ZogG_laptopas there would be more changes anyway21:39
Woody14619zogg: there are already changes based on what we _just_ said... and from the mailing list.21:39
Woody14619No reason to present them to community without those fixes.21:39
Woody14619So, on migration, apparently merlin1991 and X-fade didn't meet up on Tuesday as planned?  (OBS meeting reference, where both agreed to chat on Tuesday and get setup)21:40
Woody14619I've been semi-out of the loop since Tuesday, as that's when stuff hit the fan here....21:41
ZogG_laptopi think the progress should be more public coz of those reasons21:41
Woody14619I'll confir again w/ X-Fade and merlin1991 and see if we can't get this done asap. :P21:41
Woody14619zogg: progress in what? for what reasons?21:42
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ZogG_laptopWoody14619: migrations (OBS and so on)21:42
Woody14619zogg: You keep saying that... Understand, *we* do not control the hardware.21:42
ZogG_laptopWoody14619: as it's only few we depend on and most meeting i see the lack of status on that(correct me if i wrong or missed something)21:43
Woody14619It's not that we're "hiding" anything, or trying to prevent people from getting access.21:43
SD69zogg: nothing's happening; nothing is what you see when nothing is happening21:43
Woody14619We have limited (and in most cases NO) acess ourselves.  Everything done on this front is public.21:44
SD69as to the specific discussion to transfer admin rights, it can be private so not to help someone hack the server21:44
ZogG_laptopthat's true21:44
ZogG_laptopbut is it working? tested (new OBS and fremantle support?)21:45
Woody14619Right now one of the larger issues is that the one point person for dealing with out servers is doing so mainly on his free time, since Nokia stopped paying for his services outside of general maintainance.21:45
Woody14619And his free time has been lacking the past week or so.21:45
Woody14619This is a public project, but it's being done on privately owned hardware, by a small group of poeple who know how to do it.  You keep saying more people should be working on it, but frankly, there are few people that know HOW to do this, and most of them in this community are working on it and have access.21:47
ZogG_laptopthat's why i thought other people could help with21:47
Woody14619What they mainly do not have right now is time.21:47
Woody14619Zogg: Do you know how to setup and OBS?21:47
Woody14619Zogg: Do you know how to setup and OBS?21:48
ZogG_laptopi don't and i'm not asking for access, but i think there might be few people who can figure it out.21:48
Woody14619Yes, and for the most part, they ALL have access.21:48
Woody14619The problem is, they ALL also lack time right now, since they have other projects going on.21:48
Woody14619Or work is being demanding, or holiday, or travel....21:49
ZogG_laptopi think they make great job, if you understood me wrong21:49
ZogG_laptopand i rely on them21:49
Woody14619There are 3 (or 4) people in this room that have the knowledge to do this work.  And AFAIK, all but one has access to said server.  (And we're working on getitng him access to the repos...)21:50
Woody14619So please stop saying "make it more public so people can work on it".... It's not helpful.21:50
ZogG_laptopbut i just know there are enuf people on TMO not actively following issue and that;s why not tyring to help, but let's just agree to disagree21:50
javispedroI agree with Woody14619 in that there's no public new information because there's no new information21:51
Woody14619Anyway... I'll follow up with merlin1991 and X-fade on the repo topic Monday. :P21:51
SD69zogg - that's not transparency, that's promotion and volunteering21:51
Woody14619Topic 3: (Jolla questions)21:52
Woody14619This is a topic Ivan wanted introduced...21:52
SD69I've made contact with Jolla CEO via LinkedIn21:52
Woody14619Ivan has been collecting a series of questions for Jolla, from TMO, the mailing list and other places.21:53
SD69I don't have his email address if that exists21:53
Woody14619I think there is a desire to have this list sent on behalf of Council, to be made public with their replies.21:54
SD69I think we should start a relationship before asking questions and requesting information21:54
Woody14619Awesome news SD69! :)21:54
Woody14619I agree... It would be nice to have a chat with them.  I think most of the questions are really foundational in nature anyway.21:54
SD69Jolla is competitive company - our focus should be on whether we can serve as a community adjunct...21:54
Woody14619What their goals are, targets, etc.21:54
SD69not on asking them to make sensitive information public as the first overture..21:55
Woody14619I don't know that they're competative with us though...  Even if they manage to put out a release for Maemo hardware, I don't think there will be a huge flock to it enough to damage the NFP we're trying to setup.21:56
Woody14619And frankly, if their software is that good... power to them. :)21:56
SD69too many of the questions that I was aren't appropriate for establishing a relationship21:56
Woody14619ok. :) Well, that's a good starting point.  Maybe we can prune or order the list a bit, into ones that are suitable for starting off with and those that are not?21:57
Woody14619Reguardless, we should setup a time to meet and chat with them.21:57
SD69we should say "hello" first and "how can we work together"21:58
Woody14619Agreed. :)21:58
SD69don't bring a list of questions to the first meeting even if our intention is good..21:58
Woody14619So, let's consider that and try to setup a meeting... Or chat via e-mail, or whatever works.21:59
Woody14619Topic 4?  (Misc)22:00
SD69I will email and cc council ML22:00
Woody14619awesome. :)22:00
Woody14619I want to thank Ivan for posting the meeting minutes in my absense last week.22:01
Woody14619Things here are tight, but I will get the minutes out today for todays meeting and try to post tomorrow or Sunday.22:01
SD69That everything for me22:01
SD69thanks woody22:01
Woody14619Otherwise I have no further topics.22:01
Woody14619Thank you sd69. :)22:02
Woody14619One side note: as a reminder, I will be here next weekend, but the following two weeks I will be on holiday.22:02
SD69I think Ivan got dropped, so maybe he can email asynchronously22:02
SD69I will be on holiday August 19-2522:02
Woody14619I'm out 17-25, so, similar situation.22:03
Woody14619I believe Niel is back on the 12th?22:03
SD69I think so22:04
Woody14619Ok.  So we should still have at least two for a meeting.22:04
Woody14619Sooner we can get those bylaws up the better...22:05
Woody14619Also, we need to consider when to announce the elections, since they have to be announced a month ahead of time.22:05
Woody14619If we're planning on doing them in September (which is my current plan), we need to announce some time this month.22:05
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Woody14619I'm looking into the voting machine to see if I can help out by creating the scripts needed, so all X-fade needs to do is load the machine and generate/mail the tokens.22:06
Woody14619no prob.. same here.22:07
Woody14619#end Maemo Council Meeting.22:07
Woody14619javispedro, good to see you back btw.  Hope to see you at Monday's OBS meeting next week? :)22:08
javispedroyep, I'll definitely be there22:08
javispedromy holidays started, so I have some free time these days :)22:08
javispedrohope that I'll be able to get up to speed.22:08
Woody14619Thanks. :)  I don't think much changed since you left to be honest....22:08
Woody14619Shortly after your trip started Nokia imploded and X-Fade has been swamped with consolidating and spindown on other projects.22:09
javispedrome, and to think my original plans included diablo..22:09
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Woody14619lol :)  Well, I'd still like to see that, honestly, but lets call that a stretch goal for now. ;)22:09
Woody14619hello Ivan! :) We just closed the meeting a bit ago... Did you have additional topics?  (We did discuss the Jolla topic btw)22:10
ivgalvez-N900Trying to reconnect22:10
ivgalvez-N900Nope, I'll read it later22:11
Woody14619SD69 had to go in either case, but can re-open if there's a pressing topic...22:11
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ivgalvez-N900Any AI for me?22:11
Woody14619K.  I need to get back to work... but  it sounds like things are going to press forward a bit better next week.22:12
ivgalvez-N900See ya22:12
Woody14619I think the only real one would be to consideration ones... And that you'll be running the meeting (with Niel) on the 17th and 24th...22:12
Woody14619As Rob and I will both be on holiday those days.22:13
Woody14619k.  See you all later.  Again, if there are concerns or topics one would like to see addressed in Council meetings or considered by Council, you can mail us at Council@maemo.org22:14
Woody14619Thanks everyone. :)22:14
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DocScrutinizer05I see Stskeeps in here not commenting on topic 3 Jolla - why?23:11
Stskeepsi was actually spending my time in front of the tv with my wife for once23:12
DocScrutinizer05aiui Stskeeps is one of the "key" characters in jolla23:12
Stskeepsnah, just another employee23:12
DocScrutinizer05and for sure could shed some light on the questions raised here23:12
DocScrutinizer05well I spent the last 2h at BBQ with my freinds down at the garden23:14
Stskeepsthat sounds nice23:14
DocScrutinizer05Stskeeps: I however detect a certain desire of council to get in touch with jolla, so maybe you could facilitate that?23:15
Stskeepsfrom what i know they've already reached out23:15
DocScrutinizer05have you guys already managed to put up a web presence nowß23:16
Stskeepsnot to my knowledge, either way, i'm not dealing with that part23:16
* Stskeeps gets the good job of working on mer23:16

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