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| qgil | New topic needed? Is there council meeting now? | 20:58 |
|---|---|---|
| Woody14619 | It should be starting shortly. | 20:59 |
| qgil | ok thanks | 20:59 |
| Woody14619 | Ping: Estel_ wtf? Where are the others? :P | 20:59 |
| Estel_ | Hello there :) | 21:00 |
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| Woody14619 | Ah.. there's another one. :) | 21:00 |
| Estel_ | Well, ivgalvez sent mail to council@maemo.org, that he won't make it here today | 21:00 |
| Estel_ | hello qgil :) | 21:01 |
| Estel_ | any news on missing sopurce code requested by Pali? | 21:01 |
| Woody14619 | Niel is also out (another mail, moments ago) | 21:01 |
| Estel_ | new topic isn't needed qgil, today's meeting is going to be short, probably | 21:01 |
| Estel_ | We've had msot of things, roadmap, and TODO set last week - on monday we've meet with COBS team... | 21:02 |
| qgil | Estel_: almost-news, I want to get final exact word from the legals guys that have reviewed the package | 21:02 |
| Estel_ | most things are proceeding, so there isn't much to talk today - unless someone got ideas | 21:02 |
| Estel_ | qgil, acknowledged. Thanks a lot for picking it up | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | traditionally, we're waiting 5 minutes, for eventual late ones | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | SD69, ping | 21:03 |
| SD69 | i'm here | 21:03 |
| SD69 | hello | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | oh | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | hi there :) | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | so we can start already, as ivgalvez and niel announced that they won't be here today | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | #start-meeting Maemo-Council | 21:04 |
| Estel_ | so, officialy, I'm glad to welcome all of You on 3th Council's meeting | 21:04 |
| Estel_ | qgil is present here today, so I'll add special 1st agenda point: Formalities about allocating devices to CA winners | 21:05 |
| Estel_ | qgil, only one week left for Ca submissionsl, then, we will swiftly choose winners. what next? | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | Should we review last meeting AIs? | 21:05 |
| Estel_ | obviously, we need to forward info to You. what information you will need? | 21:05 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, of course, but I would like to "abuse" qgil rpesence here, and would like to do it as first thing, because he may be out later :) | 21:06 |
| qgil | Estel_: name - email - developer.nokia.com userid - they need to have the correct contact details in their profile for shipping | 21:06 |
| Woody14619 | one sec, ral life | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | developer.nokia.com - many of thems don't have i9t now, should they setup one? | 21:06 |
| qgil | sure | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | as you remember, it's award for community contributions, not necessary coding | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | OK | 21:06 |
| qgil | the shipping system ties to that backend, that's the reason | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | correct address for shiping is re developer.nokia.com, yep? | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | understood, sounds reasonable. | 21:07 |
| qgil | the NDC profiles contain addrerss & phone number, needs to be filled for shipping | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | k, back. :P Manager stopped in. :) | 21:08 |
| * Estel_ nods | 21:08 | |
| SD69 | are there any barriers to getting that userid (besides having contact details)? | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | Any other thing we need to prepare, qgil? Or it seems to be all required? | 21:08 |
| qgil | SD69: no, just create an account like in any other web service | 21:08 |
| qgil | Estel_: that's all | 21:09 |
| qgil | if something more specific would be needed from a participant then we would contact him directly | 21:09 |
| Woody14619 | Ok. :) That all looks easy enough. (And yes, AIs' can wait till end. ;) | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | Qgil, during last meetings, we agreed on method of handling submissions to CA, if Council member is also submitting. Popular request (mailing list, topic on TMO) was to have full council assigning prizes, just dropping voting about self-nomination (i.e. Sd69 don't decide about Sd69 being awarded, etc, but participate in deciding about other submissions) | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | Are You ok with that? | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | I've asked on mailing list, and You haven't opposed, but I would like to be 100% sure | 21:10 |
| qgil | I have no opinion, it's you who decide | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | acknowledged. | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | is there anything that we, as Council, can do to help Qt% and Nokia Store activites? | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | s/Qt%/QT5/ | 21:11 |
| qgil | I think they are progressing well. You can put your time on other things, or just get involved in the forum threads | 21:11 |
| qgil | thanks for the offer! | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | All right. Woody, could You start reviewing last meeting AIs?? | 21:12 |
| Estel_ | no problem | 21:12 |
| Woody14619 | Sure... We had a full set: | 21:12 |
| Estel_ | qgil, no problem - remember about us if You need any assistance from Community Council's side | 21:12 |
| Woody14619 | Which I promptly don't have at hand. :P One sec. | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | Estel to create and post Council "opening blog". | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | Woody to create and post meeting minutes on blog after internal review. | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | Ivgalvez to create list of first-round eliminations for CA | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | All review approve/comment/reject first-round eliminations for CA | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | Ivgalvez to re-attempt contact with project maintainers before batch re-assign for promotion. | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | Woody to contact X-Fade about various topics (project management, promotion, IRC Cloaks) | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | Woody to contact Reggie about site banner for Coding Competition. | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | ew... cut-past in xchat sucks... but, there it is. | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | Ok. so, about Council's opening blog - I still don't have key ideas from Sd69 and ivgalvez | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | it seems that council jumped straight into work without much will to celebrate :P | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | Sd69, what's up? It's just few sentences about what you would like to tell Community | 21:14 |
| Woody14619 | K. We need to get that done. :) I thought last meeting we went with the "use the last template and have links to each council's user page" idea? | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | Of course I can write this opening blog entry on my own, but I would like to be from whole council, not biased by me | 21:15 |
| SD69 | You can announce community awards and coding competition | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | Sd69, it was announced already | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | Ok, i'll pester ivgalvez and You later, fortunately, it's minor issue (although, I agree with Woody14619 that we need this get done) | 21:16 |
| Woody14619 | As for me, my stuff was all spelled out in my candidate statement... transparency. (Which I think I've been doing?) :) | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | blog post after last internal review - done and OK | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, , yea, I also got Your PM | 21:16 |
| Woody14619 | Ok... Minutes were done by me... | 21:16 |
| Woody14619 | Ivan has been working on the CA list, and we all did the AI's around that. | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | First batch of Ca submitters were dropped, as per ivgalvez list, with exception for one participant | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | as per Woody14619's request | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | Ivan has also been working on the project mantainers stuff, as a few packages have moved forward. | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez succesfully contacted maintainers | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | yea | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | Yup. :) | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | many apckages got promoted | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | I talked to X-Fade... we have a few items there: | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | I'mbuilding list of ones that need manual promotion, wil lforward it to X-Fade soon | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | Coding Competition banner is up and running already, so last point is talk with X-Fade, which was fruity | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | Cloak info was sent out today. He'll probably turn that around to FreeNode quick, but their response-time is unknown. | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | So, when they show up, they show up. :) | 21:18 |
| * Estel_ nods | 21:18 | |
| Estel_ | bugzilla markers were added | 21:18 |
| Estel_ | if someone find it missing, cxontact X-Fade directly | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | The issues around promoting packages looks like it's moving toward two things: | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | doing supertesters etc for current autobuilder isn't feasible option, it require manual work, high level of knowledge about system, and super-root privilleges | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | this should be trivial for COBS, hoever | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | ops, it seems we're cross-talking :P | 21:19 |
| Woody14619 | One is that until the new OBS system is in place, we can just batch-assign to super-tester, as the granulartiy and admin controls on the existing repos is slim to nearly non-existant. | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | hoever, X-Fade proposed, that he can do things manually, as soon as I'll send him request as batches | 21:20 |
| Estel_ | I'm already collecting things to be promoted, stuck packages, etc | 21:20 |
| Woody14619 | And as Estel_ noted, once COBS is in place, push can be added easily, apart from maintainership, so that makes life easier. | 21:20 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, yes, you and Ivan are both doing that I assume? | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | BTW, X-Fade was very cooperative, and we've got every information + consensus about ways of doing things without any problem | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | yes. | 21:21 |
| Woody14619 | We should be sure to promote as one lump though, just to make things easier (and so we don't double-up on projects) | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | agree and agree. | 21:22 |
| Woody14619 | In this case I think it would be best to funnel everything through Ivan, if he's willing to take that on, since this is kind of "his baby" as it were. | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | COBs project itself, is progressing as it should, and COBS developers haven't requested any special "care" from council | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | also, they're not blocked by any roadblocks as for now | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | just things that need to be done,. and are, as time permits | 21:23 |
| Woody14619 | If he becomes too busy we can re-task it to you, Estel_. :) | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | sure. | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | I've proposed javispedro, to help Mer in fund rising - we could make simulatenous fundrising in both Mer and Maemo communities, for COBS, that's beneficial for both parties | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | javispedro wasn't interested for now | 21:24 |
| Woody14619 | Yes, the meeting minutes for those interested in COBS are here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_OBS:Meeting_Minutes | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | courtesy of Woody14619 :) | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | OK, point 3: IRC mdoeration | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | I've had conversation with X-Fade, about refreshing mdoerating staff on #maemo | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | current ideas doesn't involve dropping any chanops, it may change to drop inactive ones | 21:26 |
| SD69 | there is still some work to be done on Mer cooperation | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | FreeNode tends to be pretty free of spam and such... so chanop has been low priority. :) | 21:26 |
| Estel_ | As half of the Councils is available on #maemo 24/7, (via irc bouncers - Woody14619 and me have one, and I've setup one for other interested Councilors to) | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, yea. | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | SD69, ifI'm going on too fast pace through points, feel free to tell me | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | yea, cooperation with Mer seems to be non-existant for now, if we don't count personal projects | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | Sd69, any ideas hot to make it better? | 21:27 |
| SD69 | mer has separate account | 21:27 |
| Woody14619 | Mine isn't likely to be up 24/7, more 24/5, but yeah. :) (I'm out of range most weekends through the summer, which is most of this term) | 21:28 |
| SD69 | and we need to agree on how to share and manage cOBS | 21:28 |
| Estel_ | There was idea about CC rewarding projects running on 3 paltforms - Mer, Fremantle, and Harmattan - it was accepted at the beginning - with anticipation - but, unfortunately, got dropped during shaping categories | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | Mer is working on it... they have a lots of people on that side of the table. They'll stabalize soon, I'm sure. :) | 21:28 |
| * Estel_ nods | 21:28 | |
| SD69 | Maemo is contributing servers and Mer is contributing ? | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | cobs allow - sometimes - to cross-compile for many targets using simple "switch", but program must be prepared correctly | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | I hoped to propagate good coding practices via Coding competition rewarding such apps, but, well | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | After all, there is still chance that multiplatform programs will be submitted and/or awarded :) | 21:29 |
| Woody14619 | I think the end-goal is to setup so that Maemo OBS can build for any of the targets (including Harmattan, Mer, and others). And that Mer is not only providing settings for the Harmattan side, but is looking to setup to have hardware as well | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | yea, but as knowledgeable ones (timoph) mentioned, easy compatibility between platforms require good coding practices before | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | imany devs may be unaware of steps required to have easy-multi target | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | A"fter estabilishing first, mtesting COBS, we will need to prepare some howtos and documentation | 21:31 |
| Woody14619 | They're a bit sticky on setting up the hardware right now (stuck in issues around incorporating vs NFP, various country laws, etc) | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | COBS team will be busy working on having rest up& running, so it will be up to Community | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | going back to IRc mdoeration: | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | I came with an idea, to have one or two Council's members as chanops too | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | X-Fade is helpful and will grant required right as soon as we will know who can take role of 2nd (if any) | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | someone here wanting to take this responsibility? | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | While it makes sense in some ways for Council to have chanops, it's usually reserved to people that are here often, and have an established history. Which frankly disqualifies most of us, since those of us that have been here for a while are not on often, and vice-versa. | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | aas per old chanops, msot of them are doing good work - although, we've had some incidents, where chanop abusing was jsut around the corner (or already crossed line, like yesterday) | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | Well, i'mavailable 24/7, that's why I submitted myself | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | erm,. maybe nto 24/7 directly :D | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | but You know what I mean | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | I was in channel for the one kick yesterday... and while it was clearly a misunderstanding, it was within reason. | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | boucners + most of the waking time checking it once a while | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, sorry, but I have to dissagree | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(As you yourself acknowledged after the fact Estel_) | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | conversation wasm clearly about oeprating systems, whatsapp, skype and other propertiary things | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | Really? That's not what you said in channel later that day. | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | I acknowledged why it happened, not that it was justified | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, everyone participating in conversation was surprised | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | and, honestly, if You read logs, You should know, that, actually, no one was udnerstanding what happened | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | until I arrived back, and used a bit of deduction ;) | 21:36 |
| SD69 | can we stick to council topics, please? | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | Yes, but that was more about the timeing of it, not the reasoning. | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | Sd69, maintasining official channels of communication - like TMO and IRc - is council topic | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | And yes, once the reasoning was announced, everyone understood the issue. | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | And your reasoning for what was said was valid as well... | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | the merit is, that no one want to drop joerg from being chanop - for now | 21:37 |
| Woody14619 | It was just a miscommunication, which was resolved and cleared up quickly. | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | but, things like "people mean well doesn't apply anymore for You" just because chanop got personal issue with someone isn't OK | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | yea - misscomunication can NEVER result in abusing chanop. | 21:37 |
| Woody14619 | And I can expect you won't do the same with chanop why? | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | I just think that, for many years, #maemo was, basically, left for chanops as "owners" | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | Given the outbursts this past week? | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | some of them feel like it's their property. | 21:38 |
| SD69 | can we let it go and move on please? | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, I wouldn't, and, as You see, I'm not after joertg (don't want to remove him etc) | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | but in case of any actions of abuse anytime soon - even single one - I got confirmation, that fixing chanops is a matter of asking to do it. | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | i.e. in case of problems, they're easily fixable. | 21:39 |
| SD69 | Estel: and a council vote | 21:39 |
| Woody14619 | SD69, I think this is the last topic? I don't know of anything else in meeting. Personally, I'm all fine with chanops as they stand. But Estel_ is pushing (as Council) to alter chanop listings... Thus it's a council issue. | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | agree with Woody14619. | 21:39 |
| SD69 | we can take a vote when the whole council is here | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | BTw, if You ask me, I think that having Council's members as chanops - just for good balance of responsibilities - is OK | 21:40 |
| Woody14619 | SD69 is correct. That would take a council vote... which should wait for Niel and Ivan. | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | I don't expect any chanops fights anytime soon ;) | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | that ensures we can act quickly if something goes wrong, BUT I don't expect it to be wrong. It's just ensuring being assured. | 21:40 |
| Woody14619 | As I think there would have to be a full concensus for just us 3 to do it, which I think clearly is not here. :) | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, yea, but what exactly should take Council vote? | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | maintaining IRc is open for any Councilor interested and capable. | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | removing chanops, should take a vote, I agree. | 21:41 |
| Woody14619 | That a formal request be made of X-Fade to change chanop lists. | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | define change. | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | Adding normal chanops doesn't require Council vote, IMO | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | Where is that documented Estel_? | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | nowhere :) | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | I would disagree. | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | we're shaping it now. | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | look at meeting history | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | no single meeting, when all councilors were available at the same time. | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | If we would wait for ADDING people to chanop list to vote, we would obstruct it | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | If a random person (say chem|st) were to ask X-Fade to change chanop list to include someone, he would have to show merrit. | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | Although, I agree, that removing someone is much serious thing, and require voting. | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, random person can't. | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | The ONLY reason you're even being given consideration is BECAUSE you are council. | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | maintaining communication channels is council responsibility, see wiki page | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | Since you have *not* been on long enough to even really apply otherwise. | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | CCouncil is representation of Community, elected. | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | I see nothing wrong in council members being moderator., | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | Where on the wiki page does it say that? | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | In fact, it happened befopre | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | Texrat is moderating TMO up to this day. | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | Texrat was moderating TMO before and after his coucil-ship. | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, what you are describing, is a situation when absolutely no one maintain it, and current chanops are chanops, just because they've "jumped" early enough., | 21:44 |
| SD69 | no one objected to texrat | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | there was no single vote about adding them to list. | 21:44 |
| Woody14619 | He got the moderating position because he was doing work, was there, and dedicated. And as SD69 noted, there was no objection. | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | X-Fade is open for suggestions from Council, and it's natural for him, too | 21:45 |
| Woody14619 | I doubt the same would be said if current chanops were to be asked about promoting you to chanop.... | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | All right. Let's use mailing list for voting about adding mdoerators. | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | ok, no problem. To not obstruct it, we can vote via council@maemo.org | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | no one said voting must be done in real time IRc meeting, yep? | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | I tyhink you will agree here. | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | ? | 21:46 |
| Woody14619 | I'll include that in the council minutes. Voting will happen after minutes and logs are published, so that the others have time to read/review. | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | of course. | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | even more, others will have time to discuss and participate | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | I would make it running from after meeting, up to last people voting (or deciding to not vote) | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | #action-tiem: (ALL) Review minutes/logs, vote on promotion of council members as chanops to be presented to X-Fade. | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | not exactly. | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | promotion of Council members as #maemo chanops being *open*. not mandatory. | 21:47 |
| SD69 | voted on one by one | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | for example - with all due respect - I don't see reason why SD69 should be chanop, as he is available on IRc *very* rarely. | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | Works for me. :) | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | SD69, i hope You don't get me wrong | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | no offense absolutely, i think you'll agree | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | same would apply to me and maemo-dev@maemo.community mdoeration - I'm hardly present there ;) | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | Yay! Resolved. :) Do we have further items? | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | yes, I'll check papers, as last item bring me little amnesia ;) | 21:49 |
| Estel_ | ah, I know | 21:49 |
| Estel_ | representing Council to 2rd parties by council members. There was little missunderstanding lately, i must admit, one being my fail. | 21:49 |
| Estel_ | fault* | 21:49 |
| Woody14619 | I think that was resolved internally really, via e-mail. | 21:50 |
| Estel_ | can we agree that, if someone want to contact with 3rd party as someone representing Counciul (be it samples for Maemo devs, or whatever), we need to discuss it with other Councilors *before*? | 21:50 |
| Estel_ | yes? | 21:50 |
| Estel_ | Would just likle to confirm it here, on open meeting | 21:50 |
| Estel_ | some kind of good practice | 21:50 |
| Woody14619 | Yup. That seemed to be the concensus. | 21:50 |
| SD69 | yes | 21:50 |
| Estel_ | all right, so, resolved. | 21:50 |
| Estel_ | anyone would like to add any other point? | 21:50 |
| Woody14619 | As general reaction, I've prety much pointed to meeting minutes as a way to validate concesus on actions to be taken. | 21:51 |
| * Estel_ nods | 21:51 | |
| Woody14619 | For X-Fade, for example, on the topics I talke to him about, I noted it was all in the blog post, as should be any future requests. | 21:51 |
| Estel_ | so, we're proceeding with current things, staying in contact when needed. | 21:52 |
| Estel_ | exactly. | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | (Basically, that gives him a nice/easy way to cover is own ..., as he can point to that. :) | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | .oO(Just realized he's in channel, so we're all pinging him to death.) | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | Anyway. :) I have nothing further... except that I take the ongoing item of making minutes, approval by e-mail ,etc. :) | 21:53 |
| Estel_ | so, indeed, it was shortest meeting up to date :) In addition to things already pending, we will have discussion - via council@maemo.org and any other means, that Councilors feel fancy - about altering chanop list at #maemo | 21:53 |
| Estel_ | and voting | 21:53 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, thanks a lot for picking it up | 21:53 |
| Estel_ | you're doing perfect job of collecting all fo those | 21:53 |
| Estel_ | and releasing. | 21:53 |
| Woody14619 | Thanks. :) That was really my big campaign item, so... I'm trying to stick to it. ;) | 21:54 |
| Estel_ | SD69, no objections to close meeting? | 21:54 |
| Estel_ | closing* | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | #end-meeting Maemo-council | 21:54 |
| Pali | council and qgil, do you have time now? | 21:54 |
| SD69 | bye | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | (Hash-tags are nice, btw, as you can use them for filtering later. ;) | 21:54 |
| Estel_ | Pali, of course | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | Sure, Pali. What's up? | 21:54 |
| Pali | Estel_, I already wrote about ipv6 and icd on #maemo | 21:55 |
| Estel_ | yep. | 21:55 |
| qgil | hi Pali | 21:55 |
| Estel_ | (btw, don't be shy to enter discussion during official meeting to, if it's related to council work - we're happy to add agenda point from non-councilors community members too) | 21:55 |
| Pali | it is possible to push package libicd-network-ipv6 from diablo to maemo fremantle extras? | 21:55 |
| Pali | that package closed | 21:55 |
| Pali | in diablo | 21:56 |
| Estel_ | qgil, let me explain | 21:56 |
| Estel_ | I told Pali, that, using Your exception... | 21:56 |
| Estel_ | MAemo devs can use closed Nokia bits, if used only for Nokia products | 21:56 |
| Estel_ | in community projects, non for profit, open etc | 21:56 |
| Estel_ | basically, it's same situation as few before. | 21:56 |
| Estel_ | there is closed bit in diablo repo, that we would like to put as a part of solution for Fremantle. | 21:56 |
| qgil | I see no problem | 21:57 |
| Estel_ | yea, told that already, but Pali wanted to be sure :) | 21:57 |
| Pali | that package is only in repo catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-2 | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | Pali, I think the concesus was that we were pushing that to CSSU? Was there a need to put it in extras? | 21:57 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, don'tYou mean libcurl? | 21:57 |
| Pali | no that is not going to cssu | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, you are correct. :) My confusion... this is libicd. | 21:58 |
| Pali | it is package for autoconfiguring dhcpv6 on maemo5 | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | yes. libcurl is open already, and included in CSSU update released yesterday | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | so, Pali, as said before, You're absolutely free to include it :0 | 21:58 |
| Pali | ok, so if there is no problem with libicd-network-ipv6 I will push last diablo version to fremantle extras-devel | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | Pali, and thank you for doing the work on this item. :) | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | wanted to say the same :) | 21:59 |
| Pali | ok :-) | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | just wondered about "and bless you for doing that" being not too religious | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | ;p | 21:59 |
| Pali | and other question, what is state of osso-backup? | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | Pali, i've asked about it at beginning of meeting. | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | <qgil> Estel_: almost-news, I want to get final exact word from the legals guys that have reviewed the package | 22:00 |
| Pali | oh, I see | 22:00 |
| Pali | Estel_ and there was question about powertop on #maemo | 22:00 |
| Estel_ | Ouh? Could you remind me? could I forget about that one? | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | qgil, also to you, thanks for being available for the meeting. :) I hope you can come to future ones as well. I'm hoping they will be shorter as time goes on. ;) | 22:01 |
| Estel_ | AFAIK freemangordon was working on it? | 22:01 |
| Pali | powertop is clsoed too | 22:01 |
| Pali | there was bug about relicensing... | 22:01 |
| Estel_ | Pali, but powertop doesn't have open licence mentioned? | 22:01 |
| qgil | It was 11am here, having a windopw open doesn't harm :) | 22:01 |
| Estel_ | and AFAIK, there was said that Nokia won't be releasing anything new anytime soon as GPL | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | This is about the glitch with it detecting the wrong speeds, yes? | 22:01 |
| qgil | osso-backup, I hope to give you official answer next week | 22:02 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, yea | 22:02 |
| qgil | but | 22:02 |
| Estel_ | Pali, bug about powertop - was it about it *should* being open as based on Debian's powertop? | 22:02 |
| qgil | I can already tell you: it was a bug in the public files: all the closed files refer to Nokia proprietary license. | 22:02 |
| Estel_ | I.E based on GPL license? | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | qgil, yup... I've worked at larger corps... You never know when things will move or halt suddenly. | 22:02 |
| Estel_ | qgil, ouh | 22:02 |
| Estel_ | qgil, so, unoficially - we're after meeting already :) chances are thin? | 22:03 |
| qgil | there is no intention of opening that component, no | 22:03 |
| * Estel_ nods | 22:03 | |
| Pali | qgil, on repository.maemo.org is gpl source code old version of osso-backup | 22:03 |
| Pali | it is now proprietary? | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | ah, yea | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | almost forget about that one | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | osso-backup was released GPL with lower version number. What happened? | 22:04 |
| qgil | Pali: that is the precise answer I want to give you next week in the bug report | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | it got re-licensed to being closed? | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | OK | 22:04 |
| Woody14619 | hmm.. sad. But it sounds like there's already enough known that someone may re-code an open version for CSSU. | 22:04 |
| Pali | ok | 22:04 |
| qgil | In Diablo was open but in Fremantle was decided to have it Nokia proprietary | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | I think that was waiting on if there was a need (eg why re-code what we can get source for already?) | 22:05 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, yea | 22:06 |
| qgil | the GPL and lower version number was probably a mistake | 22:06 |
| Estel_ | we also have backupmenu, which could be easily extended to handle specific files | 22:06 |
| qgil | hard to know exactly now, it's been some time and those people are not around or easy to find anymore | 22:06 |
| * Woody14619 nods | 22:06 | |
| qgil | please let me give you the official answer in the bug report :) | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | Sad if that's the official outcome, but not totally unexpected. | 22:07 |
| Woody14619 | Hopefully something will change between now and next week and we all get an unexpected suprise? ;) | 22:07 |
| qgil | if the closed files would have shown also GPL licenses then the mistake would have been obviosu and the release of the sources would have been done | 22:07 |
| Estel_ | well, pity, but it happens, we can do nothing more than accepting it :) | 22:08 |
| Woody14619 | Anything more, Pali? | 22:09 |
| Pali | promotion of extras-devel packages, which I cannot... but I will wait for super testers... | 22:10 |
| Woody14619 | Also, Pali, is there a bug tracker number for the libicd item? | 22:10 |
| Pali | libicd network ipv6? no | 22:10 |
| Pali | I found bug about powertop: bug 10739 | 22:11 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/10739 Powertop licencing. | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | K, was just going to put it in the minutes if there was. I'll note this package needs testing/voting as well. | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | If nothing more, I'm off to write minutes and get back to my day job. :) | 22:11 |
| Estel_ | re bug - thanks Pali, reading | 22:13 |
| Pali | qgil is assigned to that bug | 22:13 |
| Estel_ | qgil, could You see it again? | 22:14 |
| Estel_ | https://bugs.maemo.org/10739 | 22:14 |
| povbot | Bug 10739: Powertop licencing. | 22:14 |
| Pali | and seems that powertop is in harmattan too: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Developer_tools_Performance_testing_tools_Using_PowerTOP.html | 22:14 |
| Estel_ | it seems that it was, after all, based on GPL'ed stuff | 22:14 |
| qgil | "Checked with Igor & Sakari. First impression: very positive. Now give us some more time to define a concrete plan with the MeeGo horizon in mind." | 22:14 |
| Estel_ | ouh | 22:14 |
| Estel_ | it was quite old | 22:15 |
| qgil | MeeGo is gone, Igor & Sakari work at Intel. | 22:15 |
| Estel_ | qgil, ok, but stuff without any lciense and source, based on GPL'ed stuff is still a problem. | 22:15 |
| qgil | Is that the case? I'll ask. | 22:15 |
| qgil | It's been a while, yes | 22:15 |
| Estel_ | I think you will agree, that chances about it being written from scratch are thin, and "impressions" mentioned there seems to confirm that | 22:15 |
| Estel_ | qgil, yes, it seems that it's based on GPL v2 licensed powertop | 22:16 |
| Estel_ | with changes for ARM powersaving | 22:16 |
| Estel_ | as it differ from intel ones | 22:16 |
| qgil | Why not pinging there with whatever new details you have? Eero Tamminen is at Nokia. | 22:16 |
| Estel_ | BTW, qgil, it was, somehow, very sad to read that line. | 22:16 |
| Estel_ | <qgil> MeeGo is gone, Igor & Sakari work at Intel. | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | qgil, i lost trace about who is at Nokia and who isn't anymore | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | that why I asked You, as our contact ;) | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | BTW, as Pali mentioned, You're assigned to this bug, as per bugzilla | 22:17 |
| qgil | Eero is saying in that bug report that it's a total rewrite | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | erm, let me quote | 22:17 |
| qgil | anyway, I'll ask | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | ok | 22:17 |
| Estel_ | "but i'm not sure how complete" | 22:18 |
| Estel_ | personally, i don't belive it's done from scratch, but of course, it's guessworking | 22:18 |
| Estel_ | (judging by similarities to mainstream powertoip - I don't think someone would rewrite from scratch parts of GPL'ed stuff, to being identical as in those GPL'ed stuff) | 22:19 |
| Estel_ | well, i just hope it will be resolved positively, as we already have some people interested in fixing it. | 22:19 |
| Estel_ | without high hopes, though. | 22:19 |
| qgil | email sent to Eero | 22:22 |
| Pali | Estel_ do you know where will be kernel-power-settings in extras? | 22:24 |
| Estel_ | qgil, thanks | 22:24 |
| Estel_ | Pali, I'll send a batch with request to X-Fade next week | 22:24 |
| Estel_ | he asked to accumulate them | 22:24 |
| Pali | ok | 22:24 |
| Estel_ | of course, this situation is present only before COBS | 22:25 |
| Estel_ | after that, it will be no-issue | 22:25 |
| Pali | Estel_ can you ask on COBS meeting if it is possible (when COBS will be ready) to create one obs repo for thumb packages and configure it with our thumb gcc toolchain? | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | sure, I can | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | BTW - while I'll do it with pleasure - COBS meetings are held every Monday at 15 UTC, so if, in any case, You would be able to attend it, it's best solution... | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | As, in case of any questions from their side, i'll be unable to answer | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | You know, technical things | 22:33 |
| Pali | it will be good for testing if we could recompile maemo 5 sdk with thumb but in separate repo | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | everything I can say about setting up such cobs is from your one liner and common sense. | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | OK | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | is it meant as separate repo for testing only, or, later, for real usage too? | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | (i.e. by more users etc) | 22:34 |
| Pali | if thumb packages will be stable, why not? | 22:35 |
| Pali | but I have no idea if cobs build machines could recompile maemo 5 sdk with thumb in separate repo | 22:36 |
| Pali | it is question for cobs meeting | 22:37 |
| Pali | thanks Estel_ | 22:37 |
| Estel_ | no problem | 22:37 |
| Estel_ | yw. | 22:37 |
| Pali | here is powertop thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37102 | 22:48 |
| Woody14619 | Pali, one consideration. Anything thumb will likely have to rely on either KP or an independant thumb-patch package made with said patch. | 22:50 |
| Pali | Woody14619, yes thumb packages needs other kernel | 22:50 |
| Pali | but in separate repo it is possible to have thumb only packages | 22:52 |
| Woody14619 | My understanding was that the patch (while in KP now), could be done in a stand alone executable? | 22:52 |
| Pali | no | 22:52 |
| Pali | patch is changing some assembler kernel code | 22:53 |
| Pali | so we cannot create kernel module which do needed work | 22:53 |
| Pali | Woody14619, no way to enable thumb on stock nokia pr1.3 kernel without flashing | 22:54 |
| Woody14619 | ah.. ok. :) I've been following it loosely with chats from freemangordon in the main channel and elsewhere, so was not sure on that (why I asked). :) | 22:59 |
| Woody14619 | So anything coming from that repo would have a req tag of KP>=50 (or 51?) | 23:00 |
| Pali | Woody14619, yes, now on gitorious we have cssu-kernel git repo which is kp50+thumb | 23:03 |
| Pali | Woody14619, but if we have obs repo for that, we can patch debhelper dh_gencontrol which generate package dependences to automatically add required kernel package | 23:05 |
| Woody14619 | Pali, awesome. And thanks again to you and all the folks that work on KP. It's great to have an active maintainer for such important projects. | 23:05 |
| Pali | so no manual work for adding/changing packages... just upload it to separate repo | 23:06 |
| Pali | :-) | 23:06 |
| Woody14619 | Can't wait for those to go on-line and mainstream. Will make life a lot easier for most developers (or at least more standard and a lot more flexable). | 23:07 |
| Woody14619 | K. Off to work the day job. Thanks again! :) | 23:08 |
| *** SD69 has quit IRC | 23:30 | |
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