| *** momcilo has joined #maemo-meeting | 15:53 | |
| *** SD69_ has joined #maemo-meeting | 18:16 | |
| momcilo | Hi | 18:17 |
|---|---|---|
| momcilo | Hi, I hope did not disturb your plans. Btw: what is your timezone? | 18:18 |
| SD69_ | hi, I'm in New York time zone | 18:20 |
| SD69_ | sorry I'm late - didn't realize we had a meeting | 18:22 |
| momcilo | My mistake | 18:22 |
| momcilo | I thought you saw my question in one of my responses | 18:23 |
| momcilo | The thing is that thing have moved since the Tizen was announced | 18:23 |
| momcilo | In general I wanted to meet you guys and discuss on how the council is run. | 18:24 |
| momcilo | In addition, I though it would be wise to meet before next week, since merproject was very quick to react | 18:25 |
| SD69_ | sure | 18:27 |
| SD69_ | there are no rules on how council is run | 18:28 |
| SD69_ | generally, there are periodic IRC channel meetings and emails inbetween | 18:30 |
| momcilo | That much I've gathered. | 18:31 |
| SD69_ | if you are available for next week's meeting with Nokia and Nemein, you should confirm on the email thread | 18:32 |
| momcilo | I can confirm it now | 18:32 |
| momcilo | Do nemain and nokia need to be in response as well, since council@maemo.org was in a cc? | 18:33 |
| SD69_ | We got no response to our two proposals on monday :-( | 18:33 |
| SD69_ | I don't know what that means | 18:33 |
| momcilo | Stskeeps has registered the domain the following day after Tizen announcement | 18:33 |
| momcilo | I did not talk to him, since I assume you know him better | 18:34 |
| momcilo | than me | 18:34 |
| SD69_ | is jeremiah joining? | 18:34 |
| SD69_ | I do know him somewhat | 18:34 |
| momcilo | I don't know | 18:34 |
| momcilo | let me check the e-mail | 18:34 |
| momcilo | He responded at 15:50 and asked for the meeting at #maemo or #maemo-meeting | 18:35 |
| momcilo | I've tried to msg him on irc, but no answer so far | 18:35 |
| SD69_ | let's not get too far into council business without him | 18:36 |
| momcilo | I was thinking about building community hardware | 18:37 |
| *** jeremiah_ has joined #maemo-meeting | 18:37 | |
| jeremiah_ | hiya | 18:37 |
| SD69_ | hi | 18:37 |
| momcilo | hi | 18:37 |
| SD69_ | so Carsten is dedicated guy | 18:38 |
| jeremiah_ | mm | 18:38 |
| SD69_ | everyone wants to bend Mer in their direction - openSUSE, ActivePlasma, etc. | 18:38 |
| jeremiah_ | I don't think that is what they are doing. | 18:38 |
| momcilo | You mean from outside | 18:39 |
| jeremiah_ | A lot of distros realize they need ARM support | 18:39 |
| jeremiah_ | This is why they are looking at the OBS | 18:39 |
| jeremiah_ | Because it can build cross-platform packages | 18:39 |
| SD69_ | the minutes of activeplasma meeting are interesting read | 18:39 |
| jeremiah_ | That makes creating an ARM distro easier | 18:39 |
| SD69_ | Carsten wants to keep Mer UX neutral, and activeplasma want a merged working group | 18:40 |
| momcilo | So far it looks mer people want to be indepented | 18:40 |
| SD69_ | does maemo.org want to be independent too? | 18:40 |
| momcilo | That is interesting question | 18:41 |
| jeremiah_ | It should be independent of Nokia | 18:41 |
| jeremiah_ | if it wants to survive | 18:41 |
| jeremiah_ | Mer is welcome to be part of that. | 18:41 |
| momcilo | as tsg? | 18:41 |
| jeremiah_ | But I don't think they're interested | 18:41 |
| momcilo | do they want to be part of maemo? | 18:41 |
| jeremiah_ | They started out as part of Maemo | 18:41 |
| momcilo | the manifest is suggesting they want to court manufactorors | 18:41 |
| SD69_ | I don't think they've fully thought it through and/or that maemo.org is dead thing | 18:41 |
| jeremiah_ | Mer == Maemo reconstructed | 18:41 |
| jeremiah_ | SD69_: I don't think they care | 18:42 |
| momcilo | Meego Reconstructed | 18:42 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: Well, Mer was Maemo Reconstructed _before_ there was MeeGo :) | 18:42 |
| momcilo | maemo -> mer -> meego -> mer | 18:42 |
| momcilo | I remember | 18:42 |
| momcilo | I wanted to join them, but discovered they've moved to meego | 18:43 |
| SD69_ | they had to - you can't make a core OS out of maemo, too many closed parts | 18:43 |
| momcilo | I did not like it and had doubts about intel + nokia from the very beginning | 18:43 |
| jeremiah_ | There are always closed parts in corporate Linux | 18:44 |
| jeremiah_ | There are closed parts in MeeGo | 18:44 |
| jeremiah_ | The point is to have a open OS that anyone can build | 18:44 |
| jeremiah_ | To do that we'll need to get all the peices of Maemo | 18:44 |
| jeremiah_ | That is a good start | 18:44 |
| momcilo | "end users" or vendors? | 18:45 |
| jeremiah_ | But it will be hard | 18:45 |
| jeremiah_ | Who cares? Vendors are end users | 18:45 |
| jeremiah_ | But I doubt any vendor is interested | 18:45 |
| momcilo | Why not android then? | 18:45 |
| jeremiah_ | Eh? | 18:45 |
| jeremiah_ | What does Android have to do with it? | 18:45 |
| momcilo | It is open to vendors | 18:45 |
| jeremiah_ | Not really | 18:45 |
| momcilo | Just a remark | 18:45 |
| jeremiah_ | That is why there is Bada | 18:45 |
| jeremiah_ | The binary blobs that get stuffed into Motorola do not get ported to other vendors | 18:46 |
| momcilo | I see Bada as plan B on behalf of Samsung | 18:46 |
| jeremiah_ | It will now be plan C as Tizen becomes plan B. :) | 18:46 |
| momcilo | The binary blobs by motorola I assume? | 18:46 |
| jeremiah_ | I think most of those come from Android and Google, but there may be stuff that is closed from Motorola | 18:47 |
| jeremiah_ | Often the handset manufacturers claim they have to keep stuff closed due to regulations | 18:47 |
| SD69_ | well, do we invite Mer to utilize maemo.org? | 18:47 |
| jeremiah_ | Yeah, sure | 18:47 |
| momcilo | Agreed | 18:47 |
| momcilo | If they want | 18:47 |
| jeremiah_ | Right now it is being hosted in Keepsie's basement :) | 18:47 |
| momcilo | ;) | 18:47 |
| jeremiah_ | They have no money, no real infra, no customers, etc. | 18:47 |
| SD69_ | they can have their independence as a TSG or equivalent, yes? | 18:48 |
| jeremiah_ | SD69_: Makes sense. | 18:48 |
| jeremiah_ | I mean, I don't really wanna boss them around | 18:48 |
| momcilo | What about Debian? | 18:48 |
| SD69_ | me neither | 18:48 |
| momcilo | Can it be just another TSG? | 18:48 |
| jeremiah_ | Well there is an obligation to return to Debian any modified Debian software | 18:48 |
| jeremiah_ | Aside from that we can ignore them. :) | 18:49 |
| jeremiah_ | The thing is, Debian is the 800 lb gorilla of Linux distros | 18:49 |
| momcilo | jeremiah_, you stated transition to Debian as part of introduction | 18:49 |
| jeremiah_ | It is the biggest, most widely used, most packages, oldest, etc. | 18:49 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: Yup. | 18:49 |
| jeremiah_ | I want to return Maemo patches to Debian | 18:49 |
| jeremiah_ | But that is a relatively focused job | 18:49 |
| SD69_ | Mer does not want to get into .rpm vs. .deb debate | 18:50 |
| momcilo | And at the same time, you wanted direct developer action? | 18:50 |
| SD69_ | neither do I | 18:50 |
| momcilo | As far as I see it, we can build mer packages as debian distribution | 18:50 |
| jeremiah_ | Well, if Maemo is the home of Free Software mobile development, I think that is cool | 18:50 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: Sure. | 18:51 |
| momcilo | jeremiah_, if you want to be directly involved, can you form/participate "Debian" tsg | 18:51 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: I don't really need a TSG, I'm happy just to do it informally | 18:52 |
| momcilo | On your own? | 18:52 |
| jeremiah_ | With others who are willing to help | 18:52 |
| momcilo | I am intersted | 18:52 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: You interested? ;) | 18:52 |
| momcilo | ;) | 18:52 |
| jeremiah_ | \0/ | 18:52 |
| jeremiah_ | yay | 18:52 |
| jeremiah_ | :) | 18:52 |
| momcilo | the thing is the following: I am not hostile to mer, but... | 18:53 |
| jeremiah_ | I am sorry if people perceive me as hostile to mer | 18:53 |
| momcilo | I am not that certain Carsten will manage to get it done | 18:53 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: Exactly. Where will he get funding? | 18:53 |
| momcilo | from his pocket | 18:53 |
| SD69_ | jeremiah: you are obviously not hostile if you agree that they can come to maemo.org | 18:54 |
| momcilo | sorry about that | 18:54 |
| jeremiah_ | The thing is, I don't want a huge fracturing of the Mobile Linux landscape. | 18:54 |
| jeremiah_ | If Maemo.org can be the headquarters of mobile linux (which it should be) | 18:54 |
| jeremiah_ | this would be the best | 18:54 |
| momcilo | I want to say that since meego did not get attention, it is unlikely that community project like mer will attact attention outside of the developer circles | 18:54 |
| jeremiah_ | Because we already have a bunch of great software and hackers | 18:55 |
| SD69_ | jeremiah: +1 | 18:55 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: I'm not saying we're gonna be successful, I just want to try | 18:55 |
| momcilo | my remark was about mer goals | 18:55 |
| jeremiah_ | sure :) | 18:55 |
| momcilo | in that respect I see diablo as a safe altentavive | 18:56 |
| jeremiah_ | But the same is true about maemo, if we don't have new devices, people will lose interest | 18:56 |
| momcilo | we can even work with them/mirror their progress to debian | 18:56 |
| momcilo | I was thinking about community hardware | 18:56 |
| jeremiah_ | Yeah, I'd love to see some community hardware | 18:56 |
| momcilo | And remembered openmoko 1973 and Neo Freerunner | 18:56 |
| jeremiah_ | But that is tough to do too | 18:56 |
| momcilo | It appears GTA04 will appear soon to replace the initial motherboard in old casing | 18:57 |
| SD69_ | check out zareason - they have open source tablet and are looking for FOSS | 18:57 |
| momcilo | SD69_, I will check, that just let me finish ;) | 18:58 |
| momcilo | I am thinging about having same hardware platform, with different form factors | 18:58 |
| momcilo | If something is small enough to feet a cell phone casing, it can fit tablet casing as well | 18:58 |
| momcilo | About the casing, prototyping is b and painful j | 18:59 |
| momcilo | job | 18:59 |
| momcilo | sorry | 18:59 |
| jeremiah_ | But how are you going to get this created? | 18:59 |
| momcilo | About the casing, prototyping is expensive and painful job | 18:59 |
| jeremiah_ | You need to have an order for like 10,000 units to get this made in India or China | 18:59 |
| momcilo | Just an idea at the moment | 18:59 |
| jeremiah_ | And you need to have the money upfront. | 18:59 |
| momcilo | That is true | 18:59 |
| jeremiah_ | Our company just did a simple carrier card for the beagleboard. | 19:00 |
| momcilo | I've contacted GTA04 people | 19:00 |
| jeremiah_ | Just to show some network functionality | 19:00 |
| jeremiah_ | not even consumer grade | 19:00 |
| momcilo | The casing can cost $25000 to $100000 | 19:00 |
| jeremiah_ | It cost close to $10,000 US for five boards | 19:00 |
| momcilo | my company did build its own devices, by ordering casings from external suppliers | 19:00 |
| SD69_ | jeremiah: what is your company? | 19:01 |
| momcilo | jeremiah_, you are talking about electronics or encousure | 19:01 |
| momcilo | www.vlatacom.com | 19:01 |
| momcilo | We've built passport readers | 19:01 |
| momcilo | That is not important for the story, except I know that building the casing is almost as difficult as hardware | 19:02 |
| momcilo | As for electronics, I suggest we piggy back GTA04 project or similar | 19:02 |
| momcilo | One open plaform, multiple form factors | 19:03 |
| momcilo | So far, just like stskeeps, I've got no money to support the idea | 19:03 |
| momcilo | In fact, i am a software guy, so hardware, materials, design are pretty much unknown territory | 19:04 |
| jeremiah_ | http://pelagicore.com | 19:04 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: Electronics | 19:04 |
| momcilo | nice | 19:04 |
| momcilo | I've got the response from GTA04 and some information from them | 19:04 |
| momcilo | I can forward that to both of you for later reading | 19:05 |
| jeremiah_ | Whoa - cool stuff momcilo! | 19:05 |
| jeremiah_ | momcilo: Do you guys work in the automotive industry? | 19:05 |
| SD69_ | I'm hardware (not software) | 19:05 |
| momcilo | no | 19:05 |
| jeremiah_ | SD69_: Ah, what is your company? | 19:05 |
| SD69_ | no company | 19:06 |
| momcilo | In general I can help with NFC stuff and smart cards | 19:06 |
| jeremiah_ | ah, cool | 19:06 |
| jeremiah_ | NFC is hot right now | 19:06 |
| momcilo | we will see if it will be hot | 19:06 |
| momcilo | I do have reservations | 19:06 |
| momcilo | I don't like caring money tokens in a cell phone that is used on a hourly/daily base | 19:07 |
| jeremiah_ | No, seems a bit risky | 19:08 |
| momcilo | It is risky from the point of having higher chance of loosing ability to pay | 19:08 |
| momcilo | But, lets get to the topic | 19:09 |
| momcilo | If we (maemo.org) manage to build a 7 inch tablet case, it should be built in such way, that two years afterwards new board can be inserted instead of the old one | 19:10 |
| momcilo | just like gta04 is doing with their project | 19:10 |
| SD69_ | what is topic? | 19:12 |
| momcilo | ;) | 19:12 |
| SD69_ | maemo governance? | 19:12 |
| momcilo | Ok, I went to much in details | 19:12 |
| momcilo | that is the topic | 19:12 |
| momcilo | Who will approach stskeeps? | 19:12 |
| SD69_ | I can | 19:13 |
| SD69_ | But I will approach entire Mer TSG | 19:13 |
| momcilo | I see Stskeeps as a leader of Mer TSG ;) | 19:13 |
| jeremiah_ | lbt has a lot to do with it too | 19:14 |
| SD69_ | woot is a big part of it too | 19:14 |
| SD69_ | nice to see them both back at tmo | 19:14 |
| momcilo | There are 3 people who have signed the manifest | 19:14 |
| jeremiah_ | I don't see how w00t is going to have time, but if he does, great | 19:15 |
| momcilo | Well, for one thing Carsten, really made splash this time ;) | 19:15 |
| momcilo | There are 150 people hanging around at #mer | 19:16 |
| SD69_ | maemo did get mentioned in Network World article on mer | 19:16 |
| momcilo | http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/mer-resurrected ? | 19:16 |
| momcilo | Blog entry appeared at blog aggregation | 19:17 |
| SD69_ | momcilo: can you change the agenda that appears at the top of my freenode chat window? | 19:17 |
| momcilo | no | 19:17 |
| momcilo | I have to ask Carsten? | 19:18 |
| momcilo | or X-fade | 19:18 |
| momcilo | or GeneralAntilles | 19:18 |
| SD69_ | Not X-fade | 19:19 |
| SD69_ | GeneralAntilles would probably know | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm? | 19:19 |
| momcilo | Hi, can we change to topic on this channel? | 19:19 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o momcilo | 19:19 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Should be able to now. | 19:20 |
| *** momcilo changes topic to "Future of Maemo. 2011-10-06 15:00 UTC Initial meeting" | 19:20 | |
| momcilo | thank you | 19:20 |
| momcilo | how should be do it in future? | 19:20 |
| SD69_ | thanks | 19:20 |
| momcilo | how should we do it in future? | 19:20 |
| SD69_ | I think next meeting is 2011-10-13 15:00UTC | 19:21 |
| momcilo | I mean the op | 19:21 |
| momcilo | I can give op to maemobot, but I don't know if that is ok with GeneralAntilles | 19:21 |
| momcilo | Well, should be finish the meeting? | 19:24 |
| SD69_ | let's set agenda for next meeting | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Need to get X-Fade to add you to the access list. | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | bugs.maemo.org | 19:24 |
| momcilo | GeneralAntilles, thank you, will do this evening | 19:24 |
| momcilo | SD69_, agreed | 19:25 |
| SD69_ | agenda - maemo.org domain name registration expires in 4 months | 19:25 |
| momcilo | #startmeeting | 19:25 |
| maemobot | Meeting started Thu Oct 6 16:25:44 2011 UTC. The chair is momcilo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:25 |
| maemobot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 19:25 |
| SD69_ | I suggest we ask Nokia to report their intentions wrt domain name at next week's meeting | 19:26 |
| momcilo | #topic agenda for the next meeting | 19:26 |
| momcilo | #nick SD69_ | 19:26 |
| momcilo | #nick jeremiah_ | 19:26 |
| momcilo | SD69_, you can use meetbot commands | 19:26 |
| SD69_ | agenda item #1 | 19:27 |
| SD69_ | and ask Nokia to transfer, license or lease, etc., to community | 19:28 |
| SD69_ | * the domain name | 19:28 |
| momcilo | sure | 19:28 |
| momcilo | Who handles the registration nemein or nokia? | 19:29 |
| SD69_ | nokia | 19:29 |
| SD69_ | unlikely, but we ask... | 19:30 |
| momcilo | Did anybody ask so far? | 19:30 |
| SD69_ | not as bluntly as we will ask | 19:30 |
| SD69_ | :-) | 19:30 |
| momcilo | I leave that to you ;) | 19:31 |
| SD69_ | in February 2011, they renewed domain name for only one year - why? | 19:31 |
| SD69_ | future agenda item #2 - tmo spam and other tmo issues | 19:32 |
| momcilo | Reggie's input? | 19:33 |
| SD69_ | I' | 19:33 |
| SD69_ | ve asked him to attend and he said he will | 19:33 |
| SD69_ | is moderation too lax now? | 19:34 |
| momcilo | I don't know, I think there is a problem with registration process | 19:34 |
| momcilo | There were suggestions for additional moderation | 19:35 |
| momcilo | but that is on the thread allready | 19:35 |
| SD69_ | but does council need to review and decide something? | 19:35 |
| momcilo | It would be intersting to determine if registration of bots was human assisted or automatic | 19:35 |
| momcilo | Is texrat still around? | 19:36 |
| momcilo | he is supermoderator? | 19:36 |
| SD69_ | texrat has been around quite a bit considering he is busy, but maemo -> meego -> WP7 -> Tizen | 19:37 |
| momcilo | WP7????? | 19:37 |
| momcilo | Nevermind | 19:37 |
| SD69_ | yes-he had a blog posting where he speculated about going to WP7 community | 19:38 |
| momcilo | I did not see it as a serious statement | 19:38 |
| SD69_ | me neither | 19:38 |
| momcilo | SD69_, By lax what do you actually mean? Registration or message contents? | 19:39 |
| SD69_ | both | 19:39 |
| momcilo | bots or the people? | 19:39 |
| momcilo | There is one issue with that I don't like personally | 19:40 |
| SD69_ | very impressed by number of moderator volunteers | 19:40 |
| momcilo | I think that people are generally attached to maemo.org | 19:40 |
| momcilo | Actually, I myself was pretty hibernated until Elop guy appeared ;) | 19:41 |
| SD69_ | agenda item #3 - unpaid volunteers for maemo.org admnistration | 19:42 |
| momcilo | seen it you e-mails | 19:43 |
| momcilo | seen it your e-mails | 19:43 |
| SD69_ | those are my suggestions - we leave non-profit discussion for another meeting | 19:43 |
| momcilo | I've got nothing to add at the moment, except that we may have some feedback from mer | 19:44 |
| SD69_ | jeremiah: do you have anything for the Oct 13 meeting? | 19:45 |
| jeremiah_ | Well, I don't have so much | 19:45 |
| jeremiah_ | I have to think about what my first steps are | 19:45 |
| SD69_ | sure let's add Mer and our modest (largely ignored) proposals as an agenda item | 19:46 |
| jeremiah_ | SD69_: heh, sounds good. :) | 19:46 |
| momcilo | Oct 13, 13:00 UTC? | 19:46 |
| SD69_ | we need volunteer wikimaster, volunteer election supervisor, volunteer rep manager | 19:47 |
| SD69_ | yes, sorry I said 15:00UTC earlier in this meeting and that is wrong | 19:48 |
| SD69_ | and hopefully, second thursday of every month at UTC13:00 with Nokia and Nemein so we don't go through scheduling process repeatedly | 19:48 |
| momcilo | Ok | 19:49 |
| SD69_ | nice talking to you - bye until next week | 19:51 |
| momcilo | I have to leave know, nice talking to you | 19:51 |
| jeremiah_ | ciao! | 19:53 |
| *** jeremiah_ has left #maemo-meeting | 19:53 | |
| *** momcilo has quit IRC | 19:56 | |
| *** SD69_ has quit IRC | 21:24 | |
| *** momcilo_ has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:50 | |
| momcilo_ | #endmeeting | 22:52 |
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