IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Tuesday, 2009-12-01

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bergiehi, all16:24
Stskeepshiya bergie16:24
andre__heja16:24
danielwilmshello16:25
jeremiahw00t16:25
w00tyes?16:25
jeremiahTheif!16:26
w00t:-)16:26
jeremiahOr is it Thief?16:26
jeremiah:)16:26
aboaboithello all16:28
aboaboitjeremiah: i'm here in case you need me...16:29
jeremiahCool :)16:29
jeremiahI think we'll be able to work it out.16:29
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jeremiah(Someone stole maintainership of the OpenVPN package that aboaboit has been maintaining for a while.)16:30
jeremiahWe're trying to work out how to steal it back.16:30
VDVsxhi all :)16:31
VDVsxjeremiah, send a mail to the 'thief' ?16:31
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dnearyhi16:33
VDVsxhey dneary16:34
jeremiahVDVsx: Yeah, that might be a good idea, but this kinda thing probably shouldn't happen.16:34
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jeremiahI mean, someone shouldn't be able to copy a package and take over as maintainer16:34
jeremiahor capture it through the web interface, if that is what happened.16:35
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jeremiahBut anyhoo - I'll save all that for later.16:35
VDVsxjeremiah, someone did that on one of my packages by mistake (using the web interface)16:35
VDVsxbut he contacted me16:35
jeremiahah, okay.16:36
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andre__so, meeting?16:36
VDVsxyes16:36
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jeremiahLet'smeet.16:36
JimiDinihi everyone :)16:36
VDVsxlet's start16:36
* JimiDini is cooking, so might be a bit lagging16:37
VDVsxandre__, karstenb , Implement new maemo.org layout and style - Bugzilla16:37
andre__See wikipage - 9.04-05 is about the CSS part only, but now having Karsten (=guenther) back as a way more structured and organized person (harhar) than me he proposed to split the entire Bugzilla-3.4 task up into three manageable subtasks, and he thinks that other stuff has to be done first. Learned something. :-/16:37
andre__karstenb: Want to elaborate?16:37
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karstenbFast service...16:37
andre__(in general, karstenb is into the tech stuff currently while I triage like mad. :-P )16:37
karstenbBasically, the "style the beast" task depends on bugzilla 3.4 first, which is not part of the task...16:38
karstenbThere is absolutely no point in doing any extensive CSS styling on the current, old bugzilla code.16:38
karstenbSo task 9.04-05 should be split IMHO:16:39
karstenb(a) Working bugzilla 3.4, migration path notes16:39
karstenb(b) maemo.org custom features backport, Nokia patches16:39
karstenb(c) CSS, maemo.org style16:39
VDVsxok, agreed16:39
VDVsxdo you guys think that some of the aboves can be done this month ?16:40
karstenbSo please create 3 tasks for this months sprint -- dropping the current one.16:40
* karstenb nods16:40
VDVsxkarstenb, yes, done16:41
karstenbPart (a) should definitely be done, MUST.16:41
VDVsxbut I need to figure out the priorities16:41
karstenbPrio: in-order ;)16:41
VDVsxmust, should, should ?16:41
karstenbPart (b) should probably be manageable, too.16:41
andre__should, or could?16:41
karstenb(c) of course depends on the others to be (almost) done...16:42
VDVsxok so could for (c)16:42
karstenb(c) is COULD16:42
karstenbyes16:42
VDVsxok, thanks for the report ... next task16:42
karstenbUnfortunately, I'm only working 10 hours / week on this...16:43
karstenbSee my blog on planet for more reports, btw. ;)16:43
VDVsxDocument & communicate packages interface to testers - Jaffa16:43
VDVsxhe's not here, he proposed to use danielwilms blog post as base for a wiki article16:44
VDVsxabout testing stuff16:44
VDVsxseems a good idea IMO16:44
danielwilmsVDVsx somebody wanted to do that16:44
danielwilmsasked me for permission ;) if he hasn't done that I will ;)16:44
VDVsxdanielwilms, do you remember his name/nick ?16:45
danielwilmsI'm checking...was a comment on the blog-entry...a second16:45
danielwilmshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Help_testing_software16:46
danielwilmshere it is16:46
danielwilmsbut we should move it somewhere like http://wiki.maemo.org/extras-testing/guide IMHO16:47
VDVsxossipena, so it should be in good hands :)16:47
VDVsxdneary, ^16:47
dnearyYoup?16:47
andre__danielwilms, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35488 is also an interesting thread about that16:47
dnearySorry - just got a maemo user dump & am setting up a Unicode election at the same time16:48
dnearywhat did I miss?16:48
danielwilmsandre__ that's true...thx for the pointer16:48
VDVsxdneary, can you push the extras-testing guide inside the wiki group16:48
VDVsxdneary, <danielwilms> http://wiki.maemo.org/Help_testing_software16:48
VDVsx<danielwilms> here it is16:48
VDVsx<danielwilms> but we should move it somewhere like http://wiki.maemo.org/extras-testing/guide IMHO16:48
dnearyWhat does "push" mean, in this context?16:48
jeremiahStand next to it and shove it over a cliff.16:49
dnearyVDVsx, I think just Extras-testing is better16:49
dnearyIt should be in the existing Extras-testing page16:49
VDVsxok :)16:49
VDVsxit also need a bit of love16:50
VDVsxbut perhaps ossipena will finish it16:50
danielwilmsVDVsx true :)16:50
VDVsxok that task seems completed16:50
VDVsxdanielwilms, thanks for the extra help16:51
VDVsx9.09-01  Push packaging policy updates - X-Fade danielwilms16:51
danielwilmsVDVsx I'm waiting for last changes16:51
VDVsxso carry it as must ?16:52
danielwilmsyep...please16:52
VDVsxX-Fade, still on holidays ? :P16:53
danielwilmsVDVsx sorry that it didn't work out...but my knowledge is not enough to complete it by myself...16:54
danielwilmsVDVsx yep X-Fade is still on holidays16:54
VDVsxdamn, we need to clone him :)16:55
VDVsxJimiDini, 9.10-03  Implement SSO backend16:55
JimiDiniVDVsx: as I wrote on the wiki, it is almost done. Will be ready for internal testing in couple of days16:55
JimiDinithen we'll need to implement client-parts for it and do some testing16:56
danielwilmsJimiDini it is almost done16:56
VDVsxJimiDini, all 'services' or something was left out ?16:56
danielwilmsJimiDini for gforge at least16:56
JimiDiniso, the plan is to have some of the services working with centralized usermanagement backend in december16:56
VDVsxby services i meant tmo bmo garage ...16:56
JimiDiniVDVsx: right now I am talking not about authentication itself, but about centralized user-management. that's a bit different part16:57
danielwilmsVDVsx at the moment midgard, wiki, and gforge16:57
danielwilmsfor december16:57
VDVsxJimiDini, so should I replace this task by a "testing/deployment" task for dec ?16:58
JimiDiniVDVsx: so, 9.10-03 is still a must for december + we add tasks for client stuff16:59
JimiDiniwell.. we can rename it, yes16:59
JimiDini"testing/deployment user-management backend"16:59
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tekojoHi, sorry for being late17:00
VDVsxJimiDini, ok, and another task for the client stuff ?17:00
bergieVDVsx, JimiDini: I'm a bit sceptical about having this deployed in Dec, considered how late we're with getting the new servers17:00
JimiDinibergie: but it is unrelated to the new servers17:01
feribergie: I second you. Just had a meeting with the ISP.17:01
feriSSO will not be deployed in December, I am fairly sure.17:01
JimiDinibergie: and we are not talking about full-scale SSO now. only about beta-version of user-management17:01
feriWe should be happy if we get the servers done...17:01
JimiDinifull-scale SSO will definitely not be ready17:02
JimiDiniVDVsx: SHOULD "midgard syncing with usermanagement-server"17:02
JimiDinidanielwilms: similar task for gforge?17:03
VDVsxJimiDini, drop the testing/deployment one ?17:03
danielwilmsJimiDini definitely it is almost done, and not so hard to apply to the wiki then17:03
JimiDiniVDVsx: nope. I think: MUST "testing/deployment user-management backend"17:04
VDVsxok, fine :)17:04
VDVsxnext is NetBlade17:04
NetBladeyep17:05
VDVsx9.10-04  Brainstorm: bug fixes and new features17:05
NetBladeall the three tasks can be handled as one17:05
VDVsxyes,please17:05
NetBladebasicly everything is done, except activity log17:06
NetBladethey are on internal and as I said in my email to community development list, I would need some feedback on things17:06
NetBladeactivity log is something I have to talk with bergie at some point17:07
VDVsxthe brainstorm mods have access to internal ?17:07
NetBladeVDVsx: that's something that I don't know17:07
dnearyNot me, in any case17:07
feriI doubt we will get much feedback using internal only, so I would propose to install it on maemo.org.17:07
dnearyI agree17:07
VDVsx+117:07
NetBladeok, so in that case, I need someone with enough access to live server to help me installing it17:08
NetBladebecause I don't have enough rights on live server17:08
feriNetBlade:I can grant you access.17:08
feriLet's discuss offline what you need.17:08
VDVsxok, some a task for that ? :)17:08
NetBladeok17:08
VDVsx*so17:08
feriVDVsx: no task for me at least. This goes under the BAU category ;)17:09
VDVsxNetBlade, want a task for that or no need ?17:09
NetBladeno17:10
NetBladeI will talk about this with feri and coordinate with him17:10
VDVsxok17:10
VDVsxferi, 9.10-07  Server migration17:10
feriAs written in qaiku: we got the 1st servers last week. So I am installing them as we speak.17:11
tekojostanding due to slow ISP17:11
feriTask moves on to December.17:11
VDVsxok17:11
VDVsxnext two the owners are not here17:12
VDVsx9.11-03  Get a decision on Developers should get karma based on the relevance of their software  Must - mine17:12
VDVsxthis is around for more than two months without any consensus :(17:13
VDVsxis it doable to count the upgrades of a app ? (in terms of implementation)17:14
VDVsxnumber of users upgrading17:14
bergieVDVsx: we only know download count (and even that we get a week or two late from the CDN)17:15
tekojoVDVsx hard, the number is pretty well hidden by akamai17:15
feri VDVsx: without a client feedback, i would say it is not doable.17:15
VDVsx:(17:15
jeremiahWell I think popcon might help17:15
jeremiahIf we can get users to download it, we know a lot about what they have installed17:16
dnearyto have an imperfect but working measure, I say use download count17:16
jeremiahThere is a guy named Bas who has started on this project and I've been helping him a bit17:16
jeremiahpopcon measures this, on the user's device17:16
jeremiahPlus it can determine which repos the user is using17:16
jeremiahSo we can find out if they are downloading from the dark net.17:17
dnearyAnd requiring voluntary enablement of popcon which may be available at some point in the future... seems like a long wait with no certainties17:17
jeremiahno, it is pretty much ready to go now17:17
jeremiahAnd Bas has some working code already17:17
VDVsxfor that we need to work on good description-->"popcon" - super cool application :)17:17
jeremiahIt's widely used in debian17:17
dneary"The Maemo popularity contest"17:17
jeremiahVery useful to determine what apps are popular, etc.17:18
dnearyPlus, it's only ever going to be a sample17:18
dnearyDebian estimate that 1 in 10 has it installed, no?17:18
jeremiahThat's fine - you can extrapolate a lot.17:18
jeremiahWell, if we got 10%, that is a pretty good sample.17:18
VDVsxok, at least we know that the most consensual solution so far is not doable :P17:19
VDVsxI'll carry the task17:19
VDVsxnext..17:19
VDVsx9.11-04  Openness data - Stskeeps17:19
Stskeepsbeen working on it - I have a semi-final version locally, but it would be good to have Diablo included in openness to do a proper comparison17:20
Stskeepsas well as to help the facilitation of opening diablo components17:20
Stskeepswill hopefully put out the final version here in december17:20
VDVsxok17:21
Stskeepsit is basically a large table and information on each package, their openness status, as well as indications if they are depending on closed components and so on17:21
zaheermregarding popcon, i doubt we'd get 10%...extrapolating that from debian users is not the same as a device that the majority are going to be non community oriented consumers17:22
VDVsxcan we have graphs ? :P17:22
zaheermbut it is a nice idea17:22
jeremiahWell I think we should try it and test it.17:22
StskeepsVDVsx: graphs are too easy to argue about.. this way allows people to really dig down and see where the issues are :)17:22
Stskeepsand represents N900 firmware openness and platform openness (platform defined as N900 SW minus the stuff not in SDK17:22
jeremiahGraphs!17:23
Stskeepsso you can click browser component, see what parts are closed, why they depnd on closed packages, or where they're developed openly17:23
VDVsxStskeeps, yes, I was considering both solutions17:23
VDVsxlooks good17:24
jeremiahStskeeps: You can keep a lot of complex information in your brain, I sometimes need a pretty picture.17:24
StskeepsI did graphs initially but it painted things too much in black and white. which is dangerous when it comes to discussing a touchy issue such as icensing17:24
jeremiahAh, good point.17:24
Stskeepsit is more important to see why things are they way they are and that you probably shouldn't care about some of those things being closed :)17:25
bergiejeremiah: we can probably provide the "popcon" web backend from Midgard17:25
VDVsxStskeeps, ok, task carried17:25
Stskeepsright, that's it for openness data17:25
jeremiahbergie: Oh really? That would be awesome17:25
VDVsx9.11-05  Starting to work on a open sourcing queue17:25
StskeepsVDVsx: waiting for final release of openness data as this determines where we need to focus17:26
jeremiahAll we need is a URL to upload to, we'll post with curl.17:26
Stskeepsso carry to december17:26
VDVsxoki17:26
VDVsx9.11-06  Help out the SSU team to get them started  Must  Stskeeps17:26
Stskeepsbeen working a little with figuring out steps - jeremiah will make a SSU repo + key and we'll make a package for extras17:27
Stskeepsmost of my work in that area has been in facilitating the TI GLES drivers, which currently are stuck at the bizarre N8x0 framebuffer setup. we have capable community members on the issue and TI is cooperating.17:27
VDVsxbtw, who's working in the SSU ?17:27
Stskeepslma, sd6917:28
Stskeepsand some others17:28
bergiejeremiah: great, let us talk about this off-IRC tomorrow17:28
jeremiahright :)17:28
Stskeepsso i will be continuing to help ssu in december too17:29
VDVsxStskeeps, carry it to dec ?17:29
VDVsxok17:29
Stskeeps:nod:17:29
VDVsx9.11-07  Mer 0.17 release and facilitating Maemo on non-N900 OMAP3 boards (beagle, etc)  Must  Stskeeps17:29
Stskeepswe managed to get things working sanely on zoom2 and beagle, and then the new SDK update came along, and broke everything :)17:29
StskeepsMer 0.17 is proceeding nicely17:30
Stskeepsthe new desktop is finally shaping up :P17:30
jeremiah(Love the boot video)17:30
Stskeepsprobably carry on as well, as it's an ongoing task17:31
Stskeepswill possibly split it into smaller tasks over time, - reporting in multiple systems sometimes sucks :)17:31
VDVsxStskeeps, ok, thanks :)17:32
VDVsx9.11-08  No  orphaned pages and revise Wiki navigation  Must  dneary17:32
dnearyHi17:32
dnearyYes...17:32
dnearySeems like the neverending task this one17:32
dnearyWe're down from about 120 to 50 orphans17:32
dnearyAnd the navigation has (IMHO) improved this month17:33
dnearyBut only about 50% done on the task as I envisioned it17:33
dnearyCarry over to December, and the documentation summit in Barcelona17:34
VDVsxok17:34
VDVsxjeremiah, your turn :917:34
VDVsx9.11-09  Integrate more minimae checks (around ten new checks)  Must17:34
dnearyNo questions/remarks for me?17:35
VDVsxah that one is done, you didn't updated the color17:35
jeremiahw00t17:35
jeremiahoops17:35
jeremiahColor me embarrassed.17:35
Stskeepsdneary: great job on improving wiki :)17:35
VDVsxdneary, well seems good, it's a hard task, but the group is doing a good job so far17:35
jeremiahI agree17:36
dnearyFunny, I was expecting to get told off for not getting more done...17:36
VDVsxdneary, btw, there's some kind of wiki editing guidelines page ?17:36
dnearyVDVsx, There is, kind of17:36
dnearyIn the MAG page17:37
Stskeepsdneary: you've mobilized people it seems like, so17:37
VDVsxwhere ? :P17:37
Stskeepswhich is more worth than progress :P17:37
dnearyIt should be a separate page with more writing guidelines17:37
jeremiahdneary: There is so much stuff on the wiki. It seems like and endless task.17:37
dnearyjeremiah, To me too17:37
jeremiah:)17:37
VDVsxlike always add a category in new pages, no camelCase and stuff like that ?17:37
jeremiahCategories are key17:37
VDVsxIMO, a page like that one should be very visible to newcomers17:38
dnearyyes17:38
dnearyVDVsx, It should be linked from the Edit page17:38
dnearyGood suggestions17:39
VDVsx:)17:39
dnearyLet me get this election started first...17:39
VDVsxdneary, oki, np17:39
VDVsxjeremiah, back to you :)17:39
jeremiah\o/17:40
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* VDVsx notices that his discussion about karma turned in another tmo vs ml war :(17:40
jeremiah9.11-10 - Waiting, I can't seem to find where the database Niels is using for packages.17:41
jeremiahOnce I find that, I'll intergrate.17:41
jeremiah9.11-11 - I recently got a login to the new servers17:41
jeremiahSince it took a while, I installed reprepro locally and it is up and running.17:42
jeremiahI should be able to hit the ground running once we get new repo servers17:42
jeremiahI should change that from 0% to something higher.17:42
VDVsxok, carry 1o and 11 as musts ?17:42
jeremiah9.10-14 - The RFP is largely prototyped - it too needs to connect to the database.17:42
jeremiahYes please. :)17:42
VDVsxoki17:43
VDVsx9.11-12  Brainstorm/improve Extras-testing Q&A17:43
jeremiahI though we did an okay job with tht - what do you think?17:43
VDVsxyes, we need to summarize all the discussion17:44
VDVsxand implement things17:44
jeremiahI think we need to present it to X-Fade so he can implement17:44
jeremiahyeah17:44
VDVsxwell is already summarized +-17:44
VDVsx9.09-10  Implement SSO sync-API endpoint for garage  Should  danielwilms17:44
dnearyjeremiah, With the extras-testing Q&A, what's the end result?17:45
dnearyHas that all been integrated into the developer FAQ?17:45
danielwilmsVDVsx almost done...there were some server configuration which had to be done before17:45
danielwilmsso I started a bit late17:45
danielwilmstake it over as a must with the test environment17:45
jeremiahdneary: We have a list of stuff that we talked, mostly talked about it on the dev mailing list17:46
jeremiahdneary: We are not going to change the docs yet until the code gets changed17:46
jeremiahNo point otherwise.17:46
danielwilmsand I have to leave soon...the UI for the download client is as far implemented as wazd had time to make the mockups17:46
jeremiahBut certain specific recommendations will hopefully be taken up, like lowering the threshold to 517:46
VDVsxdanielwilms, ok, thanks17:47
danielwilmsthe status is in the wiki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Download_client_for_extras-applications17:47
VDVsxdanielwilms, see you in BCN :)17:47
danielwilmsyep...see you there17:47
VDVsx9.10-14  Create a RFP (Request for Packaging) interface just like the ITP  Should  jeremiah17:48
danielwilmsand have a nice evening all of you...bye!17:48
VDVsxcarry as a should ?17:48
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VDVsxjeremiah, ^17:49
jeremiahoh sorry17:50
jeremiahYes please, carry as should. :)17:50
VDVsxI saw your report above :)17:50
VDVsxandre__, 9.10-15  Prepare a Bugday  Should17:50
andre__all written in the wiki. nothing to add if there's no questions. if you want me to copy and paste though for the meeting log, just say :-P17:51
VDVsxnop17:51
VDVsxlol17:51
VDVsxok, carried17:52
VDVsxferi, 9.08-12  Improve reporting feed appearance on sprint page  Could17:52
feriAll written in the wiki, nothing to add.17:52
VDVsxwhat are the plans for that ? the feed seems fine for me o_017:53
feriNo plans. The spring page does not say who wrote the particular qaiku message.17:54
feris/spring/sprint17:54
feriso we should add the author there at least...17:54
VDVsxhumm, ok17:54
feriat this point i don't know if this needs to be done in the feed itself, or in that mediawiki plugin (?)17:55
* VDVsx always clicks on the link in order to see the comments17:55
ferido you know what? make this a Must for me... :)17:55
VDVsxprobably in the plugin17:55
VDVsxok :)17:55
feriI have been "busy" with the server migration for two moths and nothing came out.17:56
feriMaybe if I get other tasks, we will eventually get the server move :)17:56
VDVsxlol17:56
VDVsxlast one: 9.10-09  Prototype  library.maemo.org  Could  dneary17:56
VDVsxcarry it as could ?17:56
VDVsxsome plans to BCN ?17:56
jeremiahI am jealous - I would love to go to BCN17:57
jeremiahMaybe next year.17:57
dnearyYes17:57
dnearyI have a Debian repository locally17:57
jeremiahWhat?17:57
dnearyNo docs in there right now17:57
jeremiahThat is expressly forbiden by the Gneneva convention17:58
VDVsxjeremiah, next year will be in Brazil or Cuba, BCN is also cold these days:P17:58
dnearyjeremiah, "Prototype library.maemo.org"17:58
dnearyjeremiah, Step 1: set up local debian repos with doc packages17:58
jeremiah:)17:58
dnearyStep 2: Generate docs and publish on a web server from the repos17:58
dnearyStep 3: Check regularly for updates17:59
dnearyI'm at step 217:59
dnearyBut haven't spent a lot of time at it...17:59
jeremiahokay. Roger17:59
jeremiahWhich tool are you using for your repo?17:59
dnearydpkg-scanpackages to create pkg index18:00
dnearyvim to create a Release file18:00
dneary'assit18:00
dnearyAm I missing something?18:01
jeremiahI don't think so.18:01
jeremiahIf you actually put debs in your repo, you may want to look at reprepro18:01
jeremiahor debmirror18:01
jeremiahBut you may have no need for that stuff18:01
dnearyNo18:02
dnearyEnd goal is to create a list of packages that are in maemo repos that are docs packages & regularly apt-get upgrade them & process things automatically18:02
dnearyOr something like that18:03
VDVsxlike library.gnome.org18:03
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VDVsxok,  time for news tasks/complains/rants :)18:04
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VDVsxtexrat is the only one so far with a new task (merchandising stuff)18:05
VDVsxanyone else ?18:05
dnearyVDVsx, Exactly18:05
dneary(like lgo, that is)18:05
VDVsxif no one wants to propose more tasks... the meeting is over18:08
VDVsxthanks all18:08
andre__thanks!18:08
tekojothanks!18:08
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jeremiahThanks!18:08
ferithanks18:09
dnearythanks18:09
aboaboitjeremiah, any progress on the maint. issue?18:11
jeremiahnot without Niels I'm afraid18:11
* aboaboit doesn't know Niels by nick18:11
jeremiahX-Fade:18:11
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aboaboitjeremiah, oh, ok... seems to be here... anyhow, drop me a line if you or him need more details18:14
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