IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2021-01-23

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sunshavithis is ouf of topic: any experience with fbterm?04:18
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MaxdamantusI used it as my main terminal emulator on my laptop (Aspire One) back in 2012 or so.05:51
MaxdamantusBecause it seemed more power-efficient than running Xorg.05:52
Maxdamantus(and at least at the time, it seemed to be a lot faster than fbcon in the kernel)05:52
MaxdamantusI suspect it supported proper hinting (based on rules in the ttf file), since I find unhinted (or badly hinted) text annoying to read.05:56
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enycMaxdamantus: interestingy, not heard of that!14:04
enycMaxdamantus: I remember all the krefluffle when framebuffer console started in first place,  vs  svgalib modes and so on!14:04
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MaxdamantusI have a feeling that fbcon is faster nowadays, though I don't use it as a primary terminal emulator.14:09
Maxdamantus(normally on my desktops/laptop, I use urxvt, and on N900 I just use the usual osso-xterm)14:10
Maxdamantuswould like to switch at some point on N900 to use something with proper font rendering though.14:10
Maxdamantusthe bad font rendering is not so noticable on N900 since it has a higher pixel density than all the other displays I use, but still whenever I do end up running something on N900 with proper font rendering, it looks much clearer.14:11
Maxdamantus("bad" as in unhinted—I haven't managed to get anything in Maemo to work with ttf hinting enabled, have only ever got it working in a Debian chroot)14:13
Maxdamantus in case anyone wants an example of the distinction, though those examples are not on N900.14:18
sunshaviMaxdamantus: my problem is with font rendering on fbterm. Perhaps I should try fbcon first?14:29
Maxdamantussunshavi: what's the problem?14:29
Maxdamantusfbcon just uses some stored bitmaps.14:30
sunshavii use xterm and xst, and virtual console and when i want 256 colors on the virtual terminal I use fbterm.14:30
sunshavilet me share a couple of images one of the virtual console and the other one about fbterm14:30
MaxdamantusYeah, that fbterm picture is unhinted.14:34
Maxdamantusfbcon is effectively hinted since its fonts are 2-bit bitmaps.14:35
sunshaviThen. should I try fbcon?14:36
sunshavilet me check yaourt about fbcon14:36
MaxdamantusYou've already got a picture of fbcon.14:36
MaxdamantusThe "-s5Q.png" picture is fbcon.14:36
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Maxdamantusfbcon is just the fb terminal emulator in the kernel.14:36
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sunshavifor me that's the virtual terminal (GNU/Linux virtual terminal)14:37
MaxdamantusNot sure about that description, but I imagine it would also apply to the kernel's VGA text mode terminal emulator too.14:38
Maxdamantus(which just uses VGA text instead of drawing text itself on a framebuffer)14:38
sunshavinice to know. thanks for the clarification14:38
sunshavion fbterm i can get more rows14:39
sunshaviit bothers me a little bit. And also when rendering the text is slower than fbcon aka (GNU/Linux virtual terminal)14:40
sunshaviBut. When I want more vertical space for inspecting irc logs. fbterm is paramount14:41
MaxdamantusYeah, as I said, I think fbcon is faster nowadays. It used to be relatively slow.14:41
sunshavinow it is faster than xterm at least on my SBC14:41
Maxdamantus(the VGA text mode terminal was fast back in 2012)14:41
sunshaviMaxdamantus: Thanks for the help14:42
sunshaviI am going out for a couple of hours. Have a great day or depending of your timezone (the rest of the day)14:43
MaxdamantusIf the thing you don't like about the font rendering is the lack of hinting, maybe you could try using something like this in your ~/.fonts.conf:
Maxdamantusand if that doesn't change anything, maybe run it under strace to see if it's actually reading the config file.14:44
sunshavilet me check fbterm shows the font rendering with a command line switch14:45
Maxdamantusactually, if you're using a recent version of freetype, I'd also suggest using this environment variable: FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=3514:45
Maxdamantus(in combination with that ~/.fonts.conf setting)14:46
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sunshaviI am on archlinux-arm. with the latest and greatest14:48
sunshavitalk to you later.14:48
MaxdamantusOkay, good luck.14:48
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sunshaviit has improved18:02
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visionvirusinfobot ~sb18:39
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Maxdamantussunshavi: hmm .. looks about the same to me.21:41
MaxdamantusI tried running fbterm last night, and it didn't seem to be doing antialiasing.21:42
sunshaviI am comparing both.21:43
sunshaviMaxdamantus: with the modifications it looks a little bit clear21:43
sunshavinot as great as the virtual terminal aka fbcon21:44
MaxdamantusMaybe, though still neither is properly hinted, so they're both fuzzy, at least to me.21:45
sunshaviMmmm. How hinting could be gotten?21:46
MaxdamantusTheoretically, by using that "hintstyle" setting that you've now got in .fonts.conf, and using FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=3521:48
Maxdamantus(in freetype 2.7 or so, they changed the way hinting instructions are used by default, so you have to set that environment variable to get the previous behaviour)21:51
sunshavithat is my freetype2 version21:53
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MaxdamantusRight, so you'll need that environment variable set to do proper full-pixel hinting.21:54
sunshaviI have done : export FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=3521:54
sunshaviand then : fbterm -v21:54
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MaxdamantusOkay, got it working nicely for me, but had to modify the fbterm source code.22:23
MaxdamantusAlso had to explicitly enable antialiasing in fontconfig, since fbterm has it off by default, but you've already got that part enabled (maybe your system fontconfig sets it)22:25
Maxdamantusfor the hinting part, I needed to `FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT` in the source code to `FT_LOAD_TARGET_NORMAL`22:25
Maxdamantusneeded to change*22:25
MaxdamantusDeleted that previous image:
sunshaviok. Let me try it22:30
visionvirushow to install the sdk to a new debian?22:35
infobotwell, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
infobotsdk is probably or "wget", or
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sunshaviMaxdamantus: on line 253 of font.cpp I have FT_LOAD_TARGET_NORMAL. should I change it to FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT?22:49
visionvirus#deb maemo5-sdk main22:51
KotCzarnybest way is using virtual machine image22:52
visionvirusKotCzarny: ah, with an old debian? which version?22:53
KotCzarnydont know, i personally use chroot (~500mb)22:53
Maxdamantussunshavi: hm, no. I was expecting it to be the other way round.22:53
KotCzarnybut for a new user, vm is quickest22:53
Maxdamantussunshavi: in the fbterm source code that I've got (used by nixpkgs), it has `FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT`22:54
visionvirusi mostly use chroot, too22:54
visionvirusfor my other partitions, to update em all in oce22:54
visionvirusKotCzarny: which debian version are u using then?22:54
sunshaviMaxdamantus: I have the git version. Last log change 2015-05-09 by Arthur Shevchenko22:55
Maxdamantussunshavi: hm, yeah, okay, I see that too in the version from
Maxdamantussunshavi: were you just running it from a package manager beforehand? Maybe you should just build from git as-is and see if that works out.22:56
KotCzarnyvisionvirus: im using chroot on my orange pi which is using devuan something something22:57
Maxdamantussince when I ran it from both nixpkgs and debian testing, I got the same behaviour where it was presumably only using "light" hinting.22:57
Maxdamantussunshavi: yes, that has the change too.22:59
DocScrutinizer05VM image23:00
Maxdamantussunshavi: in fact, it's the last commit, so good chance that it's not in package repos:
visionvirus22:00 < DocScrutinizer05> visionvirus:
visionvirus22:00 < DocScrutinizer05> VM image23:04
visionvirusups... somebody got a installable pkg-config deb for maemo5?23:04
visionvirusthanX DocScrutinizer05 !23:05
sunshaviMaxdamantus: THanks for the help. I am going out again for another couple of hours. I'll be back later23:05
DocScrutinizer05aah, completely unrelated but worth remembering... If only I could... :-S23:08
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues phonetool23:09
infobotFactoid search of 'phonetool' by value returned no results.23:09
infoboti heard phonecontrol is
DocScrutinizer05^^^ recommended23:15
DocScrutinizer05lots of nifty stuff23:15
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DocScrutinizer05visionvirus: also see
DocScrutinizer05please don't post any full URLs anywhere or this stuff will vanish immediately23:44
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visionvirusaha DocScrutinizer05 ok23:46
visionviruswhats about that snapshot?23:47
visionviruscause of the qemu ?23:47
DocScrutinizer05visionvirus: refer
DocScrutinizer05Nokia never gave permission to re-host for some stuff23:49
visionvirusthats a lil uncool ;) from noka .... but ok23:56
visionvirusDocScrutinizer05: the links isn available anymore23:59

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