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| brolin_empey | enyc: 1.8-inch PATA is historical, I think at least partly because it was only used for mobile applications but mobile applications that need something smaller than a 2.5-inch HDD mostly switched to flash memory as the price of flash memory fell. Some portable media players, including the early iPod models and maybe all iPod models that can use an HDD, some notebook computers, and some handheld computers both with and without integrated cellular | 08:03 |
|---|---|---|
| brolin_empey | connectivity used a 1.8-inch PATA HDD before they switched from HDDs to flash memory or switched back to 2.5-inch HDDs. Development of smaller than 2.5-inch HDDs mostly stopped as the price of flash memory fell enough to replace HDDs in applications that used a smaller than 2.5-inch HDD. | 08:03 |
| brolin_empey | I replaced my 80686 (Pentium M) Dell Latitude X1 fanless notebook computer with 1.8-inch PATA SSD with the Asus UL30VT x86-64 (Core 2 ULV) notebook computer I had used to replace my Socket A tower computer at home because I got two HP Small Form Factor (SFF) Core 2 Duo desktop computers free of charge from my local hackspace so I moved the SSD from the UL30 that was originally in the Socket A tower computer to one of the C2D SFF desktop computers then | 08:13 |
| brolin_empey | installed my 2.5-inch SATA SSD with Windows 10 Enterprise for x86-32, which will run on the Latitude X1 but the drive physically will not fit in the Latitude X1, in the UL30. | 08:13 |
| brolin_empey | I think all iPod models that can use an HDD use a 1.8-inch HDD, not a 2.5-inch HDD. I think I researched this months or years ago because I was curious to know if any iPod model used a larger than 1.8-inch HDD. | 08:20 |
| inz | At some point iPods with 1.8" HDDs were bought solely for the HDD, as it was cheaper than getting the disk itself | 08:22 |
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| ShadowJK | Was that harddrive in compactflash format? I remember CF had both "native" and PATA interface (why the cards had so many pins) | 09:08 |
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| enyc | ShadowJK: uerm not quite, compactflash cards have a pin to switch mode, which switches between PATA mode and PCMCIA-like mode | 09:41 |
| enyc | ShadowJK: which share the same set of parallel-bus wiring | 09:57 |
| enyc | brolin_empey: tahnkyou for that explanation, which now makes a lot of sense! | 09:57 |
| enyc | brolin_empey: I found Socket A things failed a lot tbh | 10:16 |
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| enyc | brolin_empey: somowhat supriresd have something still working ;p | 10:16 |
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| brolin_empey | I have not studied using a CF SSD as a PATA HDD for probably at least one or two years by now but I remember something about some CF SSDs reporting themselves as a removable drive, which causes a problem in some situations. In my personal experience, the only time I succeeded in replacing a PATA HDD with a CF SSD was in an IBM PC compatible that does not use PCI, specifically the IBM ThinkPad 700 series from the mid 1990s that uses the VLB and AT bus | 10:48 |
| brolin_empey | instead of the PCI Local Bus. The IBM ThinkPad 755CD from 1995 I have worked well booting from a 32-GB CF SSD cloned from the original 810-MB PATA HDD until I could no longer use the computer because the DC output connector of the AC adapter no longer stays in place on the connector on the side of the computer. Ironically, an 80686 class PCI Local Bus era genuine IBM PC desktop computer from the late 1990s could not use a PATA drive larger than around 8 GB | 10:48 |
| brolin_empey | with the PATA host controller integrated on the motherboard even though an 80486 class ThinkPad from 1995 boots and runs from a 32-GB drive with the original motherboard firmware. Anyway, I always had some problem when I tried to use a CF SSD as a PATA HDD on an IBM PC compatible that uses PCI but a KingSpec PATA SSD works for these computers and presumably an mSATA SSD on an mSATA to PATA converter board would work too but I have not yet tried it. | 10:48 |
| brolin_empey | Actually, my company did have Windows 7 running from a CF SSD on a Commell (spelling?) embedded, industrial x86 computer chosen by our customer but that PCI computer was originally designed to use a CF SSD because the CF SSD connects directly to the motherboard but it did not matter in practice because Windows 7 was too slow on that computer that had a fan so we switched to another embedded, industrial but fanless x86 computer from Advantech that uses mSATA | 10:58 |
| brolin_empey | instead of CF. I just cloned the CF SSD onto the mSATA SSD and configured the motherboard firmware on the new computer to have the SATA host controller emulate a PATA host controller so that I could easily continue using the same installation of Windows 7 on the new hardware configuration. | 10:58 |
| brolin_empey | The 32-GB CF SSD I use in the ThinkPad 755CD is actually left over from the early stage of that project my company did when we were using the Commell computer that uses CF instead of mSATA. | 10:59 |
| brolin_empey | enyc: The MSI K7T266 Pro2 (version 2.0?) full-size ATX motherboard in that computer is very reliable even after running for at least fifteen years since my father helped me to originally assemble the computer in early 2002. I always liked how the red solder mask looked compared to the usual green or gold. That motherboard is also old enough that it still works with both a 5.25-inch High-density and 3.5-inch High-density flexible disc drive connected to the | 11:21 |
| brolin_empey | header on the motherboard at the same time. The Asus LGA775 motherboard model I use only works with one flexible disc drive at once even if two drives are connected to the ribbon cable connected to the motherboard header, even though the flexible disc drive controller function of the Super I/O controller IC on the motherboard still supports two drives, so I have the 5.25-inch High-density drive that I used in the Socket A tower computer as drive A: and | 11:21 |
| brolin_empey | have a 3.5-inch High-density USB flexible disc drive that I only connect when I need it because the computer will not power on from standby mode if the USB flexible disc drive is connected. | 11:21 |
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| brolin_empey | Now a CF card to SD card converter is available as a COTS product too. It would be interesting to try using one to use an SD card instead of a CF SSD in my Canon PowerShot G6 model of digital still camera if I ever still used a dedicated camera instead of a smartphone camera any more. | 12:01 |
| brolin_empey | Apparently an SD card to PATA converter board is also now available as a COTS product. SD cards seem to be unreliable if you run a modern OS from them (maybe running DOS from an SD card would be reliable) but it would be novel to be able to use the same OS installation stored on a microSD card in an x86 handheld computer (Intel Atom smartphone such as the Asus ZenFone 2 from 2015 or its predecessors) on one end of the computer size scale and a full-size ATX | 12:08 |
| brolin_empey | tower computer with the latest x86-64 desktop platform on the other end of the scale. | 12:08 |
| brolin_empey | An SD card to SATA converter board may be available as a COTS product too. I think I saw one many months ago? | 12:10 |
| brolin_empey | If someone had too much free time, they could try using the PearPC PowerPC architecture emulator to run Mac OS X for PowerPC on GNU+Linux or maybe BSD for m68k on an m68k Macintosh so that they could in some sense run early versions of Mac OS X on an m68k Mac instead of only being able to run up to Mac OS 8.1 . Less of an anachronism would be to run Mac OS 8.1 from 1997 on a Macintosh IIfx (68030) from 1990 because officially Mac OS 8 requires at least a | 12:26 |
| brolin_empey | 68040 if I recall correctly. | 12:26 |
| brolin_empey | I guess running Mac OS 8.1 on a 68030 is conceptually similar to running Windows 98 on an 80386 because, officially, Windows 98 requires at least an 80486 but it will reportedly run on an 80386 if it is installed on an 80486 or higher. | 12:31 |
| brolin_empey | I guess because the 80486 reportedly added only a few instructions to the 80386 instruction set so at least some of Windows 98 does not use the instructions that were added in the 80486 and later. | 12:33 |
| brolin_empey | Or maybe the person (from makowski-berlin.de which is now winhistory.de?) who succeeded to boot Windows 98 on an 80386 computer was using a 486DLC or some other CPU that is like an 80386 but with the 80486 instruction set. I think that would be considered cheating, though, so I guess they used a normal 80386. | 12:36 |
| brolin_empey | Is his name Dirk Makowski? Is my memory from maybe even around 2003 still accurate? | 12:40 |
| brolin_empey | I should try to create a petition to get Microsoft to merge the work done by the ntvdmx64 project back into the official Windows NT 10 codebase so that a future version of Windows 10 and Windows Server 2019 or later for x86-64 can run DOS and Win16/Win32s applications so that Windows NT 10 for x86-64 has the same application backward compatibility as Windows NT 10 for x86-32. | 12:46 |
| brolin_empey | Then Windows NT 10 for x86-64 in 2020 can still run x86-16 applications such as VisiCalc for IBM PC-DOS 1.x from 1981 and Windows 1 applications from 1985. | 12:49 |
| brolin_empey | As opposed to a current GNU+Linux distribution for x86 that cannot even run a Linux ELF application from around 1996 or 1997 such as Netscape Navigator 3.x due to the GNU+Linux distributions removing the Linux libc5 infrastructure. | 12:53 |
| brolin_empey | Never mind running a libc5 a.out application from the 1990s on an x86-64 GNU+Linux distribution in 2020. | 12:55 |
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| brolin_empey | Wow, MLC NAND flash memory drives are cheap now. I can buy a KingSpec 128-GB mSATA SSD for only 27.48 CAD at quantity=1 from AliExpress including shipping from Asia to Canada. I think I paid over 100 CAD for the KingSpec 128-GB 1.8-inch PATA SSD still installed in my Latitude X1 but that was in the first half of 2015 I think because Windows 8.1 was still the current client edition of Windows NT (Windows 10 RTM was in 2015 July) and I only got the Latitude | 13:59 |
| brolin_empey | X1, without an internal HDD/SSD, in 2014. | 13:59 |
| brolin_empey | I guess I could buy a 128-GB mSATA SSD and an mSATA to 1.8-inch PATA converter board for under 50 CAD if I wanted to clone my installation of Windows 10 Enterprise for x86-32 onto an SSD that I can use in the Latitude X1 and even my Pentium II notebook and desktop computer. | 14:02 |
| buZz | brolin_empey: fyi, those msata ssds make reaaaally nice USB3 flashdrives | 14:40 |
| buZz | they're often properfast, ~300MB/s | 14:40 |
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| brolin_empey | OK. I really wish that it was easy to embed a spreadsheet in a textual document in Google Docs. | 14:55 |
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