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| brolin_empey | Heh, I briefly forgot that the N900 uses a MiniSIM instead of a MicroSIM or smaller. | 02:26 |
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| bencoh | you can use an adapter though | 02:36 |
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| brolin_empey | bencoh: Yes, I know. I have used the same SIM since 2009 but I successfully converted it from a MiniSIM to a MicroSIM by myself in 2014 when I got the Geeksphone Revolution, which was the first device I had that used a MicroSIM or smaller. | 09:27 |
| brolin_empey | I used this template for the conversion: http://brolin.be/stuff/SIM_card_template.pdf | 09:30 |
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| Vajb | brolin_empey: Thank you for yor server offer. I think I'll be using that gitlab solution since it is only for short period. And sorry that I were so slow to respond. | 09:39 |
| brolin_empey | Vajb: You are welcome but, honestly, I had already forgotten about my offer. When did I offer you hosting? I remember what I offered but I do not remember when I offered it. | 09:41 |
| Vajb | N900 has been a pain to use lately. So I've tried to figure out what is wrong, but I have no idea. If I use wlan it seems to work well, but if I use gprs it loses connection to network and even reports of missing sim. Syslog shows a lot of cmt resets. | 09:42 |
| Vajb | brolin_empey: I think it has been a week or so. Could be longer too. | 09:43 |
| brolin_empey | I now have the same model of Nokia box as my office has on my wall at home because I upgraded from asymmetrical DSL to symmetrical FttP at my home yesterday (Monday). | 09:43 |
| brolin_empey | Vajb: OK. Can you get a still reliable N900 and clone the eMMC contents from your current N900 motherboard to the “new” N900 motherboard? | 09:46 |
| brolin_empey | Then you could keep your old N900 for parts. | 09:47 |
| Vajb | I have one barely intact one. I've been saving it for this kind of situation, but haven't got time to flash it yet. | 09:49 |
| Vajb | but I have yet one trick to try with this one. I was reading KotCzarnys sim problems and was like "WHAT there is a contact at the side too", so I'll see if that could be the culprit. Since it strikes me odd that it works when Im not using gprs. | 09:53 |
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| KotCzarny | for me it triggers 'no sim' icon | 09:53 |
| KotCzarny | not just broken connectivity of data etc | 09:53 |
| KotCzarny | although who knows what and where.. | 09:54 |
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| Vajb | yup I have seen that several times | 09:57 |
| Vajb | but sometimes it is just no network and sometimes it even asks for PIN | 09:58 |
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| Vajb | also I was thinking that, does gpts consume more battery power that wlan? Speculating about faulty battery now. Since I noticed it is very slightly bulged. | 10:00 |
| Vajb | gprs* | 10:00 |
| Vajb | than* | 10:00 |
| sicelo | yes, it does, depending on other factors, of course, e.g. PSM or no-PSM | 10:01 |
| sicelo | 2G or 3G | 10:01 |
| Vajb | mostly 3G or 3.5G | 10:04 |
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| brolin_empey | Er, I forgot that the N900 motherboard has another flash memory IC in addition to the eMMC. I meant clone the contents of all (only both, I think?) fixed SSDs from the old N900 motherboard to the new N900 motherboard. | 11:02 |
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| brolin_empey | I wanted to ask Vajb if they have another (active) SIM they can try using in their N900 but they quit (due to N900 problem?). | 11:40 |
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| brolin_empey | <brolin_empey> I wanted to ask Vajb if they have another (active) SIM they can try using in their N900 but they quit (due to N900 problem?). | 11:44 |
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| Vajb | cleaning the sidepin had no effect. Let's see what fresh battery does. | 11:54 |
| brolin_empey | <brolin_empey> I wanted to ask Vajb if they have another (active) SIM they can try using in their N900 but they quit (due to N900 problem?). | 11:54 |
| Vajb | device feels weird now. Since I replaced mugen cover with stock cover | 11:54 |
| Vajb | nope, have just one sim | 11:55 |
| Vajb | I could try sim in another N900 tho | 11:55 |
| Vajb | interesting. Change of battery seems to have fixed this. At least first five minutes seem promising | 12:01 |
| brolin_empey | KotCzarny: Apparently some users are successfully using an mSATA SSD in the Dell Latitude X1: | 12:27 |
| brolin_empey | http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/good-news-for-latitude-x1-owners.222885/page-37 | 12:27 |
| brolin_empey | I wonder why this topic was silently locked over a decade after it began? (fail) | 12:27 |
| KotCzarny | wasnt it old news for dell x1 and thinkpad x40 ? | 12:28 |
| KotCzarny | they are similar in features and design | 12:28 |
| brolin_empey | Actually, this topic may have been locked only nine years after it began. | 12:29 |
| KotCzarny | and my x40 is running happily on samsung 830 msata for a long time | 12:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It's not Mini or Micro it's "standard" | 12:37 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Battery maybe putting slight pressure on the SIM and therefore the contacts. | 12:40 |
| KotCzarny | swb: i think the 'standard' simcard is not the original one | 12:40 |
| KotCzarny | i think it was bigger long time ago | 12:40 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yes I believe it was the full credit card size | 12:40 |
| KotCzarny | yeah | 12:41 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It would appear different places/providers use different names so "standard" or "Mini" is correct :shrug: | 12:42 |
| Maxdamantus | I would imagine "standard" *should* mean the credit card size. | 12:43 |
| KotCzarny | yeah | 12:43 |
| KotCzarny | n900 uses mini | 12:43 |
| KotCzarny | then there are micro and nano sizes | 12:43 |
| Maxdamantus | Since unless there's some other terminology, that must've been what was used to differentiate them from the new "mini" ones (which N900 uses) | 12:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Original/Standard/Mini/Micro is used here instead of Full/Mini/Micro/Nano | 12:44 |
| Maxdamantus | That seems very confusing. By "here" do you mean a particular country, or a particular SIM provider? | 12:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I suppose xFF is the better way but people would look at you confusingly in the provider shop. Both. | 12:45 |
| Maxdamantus | Especially the shifting of the terms "mini" and "micro" | 12:45 |
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| KotCzarny | i would stick with standard/mini/micro/nano | 12:47 |
| KotCzarny | apple/samsung uses that nomenclature | 12:47 |
| Maxdamantus | Apparently the proper term is "full" rather than standard. | 12:47 |
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| Maxdamantus | though I'd say "standard" should probably also mean the same thing as "full", but I suspect it'd be likely to refer to the biggest one that people actually know used to go into phones. | 12:49 |
| * Maxdamantus didn't know the "full" size went into phones until a couple of years ago. | 12:49 | |
| Maxdamantus | Actually, maybe it never actually went into a phone anyway. | 12:50 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, mostly terminals etc | 12:50 |
| Vajb | I think it did ni Nokia 1630 serie | 12:51 |
| Vajb | in* | 12:51 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Hmm. Weird I have a laptop drive that is showing some large odd values in SMART but isn't failing a self-test. | 12:53 |
| Maxdamantus | Mm, yeah, apparently the 1610 at least did: https://www.mobilephonehistory.co.uk/nokia/nokia_1610.php | 12:53 |
| KotCzarny | 1996 | 12:53 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 12:53 |
| Maxdamantus | right, apparently 1630 = 1610 but maybe with different modems, or just different lock-in. | 12:53 |
| KotCzarny | most people dreamed about own phone at that time | 12:53 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I could just about fit my Psion Pocket PC in my pocket with it... | 12:56 |
| KotCzarny | swb: smart would fail only for parameters marked as 'pre-fail' | 12:57 |
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| KotCzarny | old_age ones are mostly hints about drive status | 12:57 |
| KotCzarny | also, pre-fail params have to reach threshold param before they get treated as failed | 12:58 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Read Error Rate | 239988 | 100 | 46 | 100 | Pre-Fail | Online | OK | 12:58 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Seek Error Rate | 2498 | 100 | 0 |100 | Old-Age | Online | OK | 12:59 |
| KotCzarny | paste header too | 12:59 |
| sixwheeledbeast | do I need smartd for that? this is from gnome-disks | 13:02 |
| KotCzarny | smartctl -A /dev/sda | 13:03 |
| KotCzarny | and to get failure log use -a | 13:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | needs smartmontools which maybe an issue as cant get networking on | 13:04 |
| KotCzarny | copy package with flashdrive? | 13:04 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | a load of mysql dependences later .. header? | 13:18 |
| sixwheeledbeast | 1 | Raw_Read_Error_Rate | 0x000f | 100 | 100 | 46 | Pre-Fail | Always | - | 160827 | 13:20 |
| KotCzarny | ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE | 13:20 |
| KotCzarny | that's a header | 13:20 |
| sixwheeledbeast | as above then | 13:21 |
| KotCzarny | raw value can be ignored, you are interested in val/worst/thresh/type | 13:21 |
| KotCzarny | in this case its 100/100, and would fail at 46/100 or below | 13:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | so its not raw I need to look at? | 13:23 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 13:23 |
| KotCzarny | sometimes raw value is split field, with only some bits used for value and rest used by vendor for something only they know | 13:24 |
| Maxdamantus | If you understand the significance of the raw value, you can look at it. | 13:24 |
| KotCzarny | that's why 'VALUE' is normalized data that can be meaningful for user/script | 13:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Ok. I completely misunderstood this then. Most drives I have seen show 0 in raw | 13:25 |
| KotCzarny | only vendor knows what is in raw_value (and probably smartmontools author) | 13:25 |
| Maxdamantus | The smartmontools author doesn't really have any special knowledge. All they have is still just the name of the field. | 13:26 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Must be brand specific then, I mostly use WD and I believe this is a Seagate. | 13:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | So Value and Worst should be > Threshold | 13:27 |
| Maxdamantus | but the raw value often denotes fairly discrete things that can be reasoned about, and they don't necessarily strictly increase or decrease .. eg, "Offline_Uncorrectable" denotes the number of currently known unreadable blocks. | 13:28 |
| Maxdamantus | (that number can increase as the drive notices more block that it hasn't been able to read, and it can decrease if it's finally able to read them or if you just overwrite that block) | 13:29 |
| KotCzarny | not just brand, firmware can differ too | 13:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Fujistu actually. This raw is random and all over the show. from 3fig to 6 fig values. | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | thats why in smartmontools they have rules matching vendor/model | 13:30 |
| Maxdamantus | It might be worth looking into what the attribute actually means. The value/worst/threshold fields are often not actually useful. | 13:30 |
| KotCzarny | and for raw read rate it probably can fluctuate | 13:31 |
| Maxdamantus | 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 087 060 045 Pre-fail Always - 467904880 | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | and be some median value over time/period | 13:31 |
| Maxdamantus | That's what I have on my relatively new Seagate drive | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | bad geometry? | 13:32 |
| KotCzarny | it might not like position is it mounted in | 13:32 |
| KotCzarny | or gets some vibrations | 13:32 |
| Maxdamantus | Doubt it. It's probably just counting something that's perfectly normal. | 13:32 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 13:32 |
| KotCzarny | and 'value' being far from 100 means drive isnt perfect | 13:33 |
| Maxdamantus | I've heard about SMART attributes being removed from new drive models just because they caused unnecessary worry. | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | but still in the margin of usability | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | worst for your drive was 60, which is quite low | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | and at 45 it would say 'failed' | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 | 13:34 |
| KotCzarny | that's on my old wd green 3T drive | 13:34 |
| KotCzarny | 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 051 051 000 Old_age Always - 35850 | 13:34 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: sure, I get 0 on all of my WD drives. | 13:34 |
| KotCzarny | 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 | 13:34 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: because it obviously means something quite different on WD. | 13:34 |
| KotCzarny | see that in this cace param 7 is flagged as old_age | 13:34 |
| Maxdamantus | I think I looked into that attribute shortly after getting the drive actually, and it seemed to be fine. | 13:35 |
| KotCzarny | keep in mind, different vendors use different technologies | 13:37 |
| KotCzarny | so particular parameter could be more important for some | 13:37 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Oh well it may not be the drive then. ty | 13:42 |
| KotCzarny | most important params are crc errors, raw read rate errors, allocated blocks | 13:43 |
| KotCzarny | those are plain bad | 13:43 |
| KotCzarny | and temperature being over 40C | 13:44 |
| KotCzarny | which means drive will die faster | 13:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | temp 39C | 13:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | is it a laptop | 13:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | is | 13:45 |
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| Maxdamantus | What's special about 40? Mine's at 41, and I think that temperature is largely due to the drive itself. | 13:51 |
| Maxdamantus | the datasheet says not to operate sustained ambient temperatures above 60 °C. | 13:52 |
| KotCzarny | according to statistics at datacenters 40+ is where probability of failure starts to rise | 13:52 |
| KotCzarny | with 45+ being high | 13:52 |
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| KotCzarny | so it's not 'imminent failure' but something that will bite you sooner than later | 13:53 |
| KotCzarny | and not every drive would fail | 13:53 |
| KotCzarny | but chance of failure is higher | 13:53 |
| Maxdamantus | Okay, so it's a matter of lifetime drastically falling at that particular temperature? | 13:54 |
| Maxdamantus | Since .. every drive is going to fail sometime. | 13:54 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, but as i've said, it's probability | 13:54 |
| KotCzarny | not every drive from the same batch is the same | 13:54 |
| Maxdamantus | This graph seems to indicate that 40 is a pretty good temperature: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Minimizing_Hard_Disk_Drive_Failure_and_Data_Loss/Environmental_Control#Temperature_monitoring | 13:57 |
| Maxdamantus | If it's around 37 or lower the failure rate increases. | 13:57 |
| Maxdamantus | (apparently based on a 2007 study by Google) | 13:57 |
| KotCzarny | maybe some other effect is at play | 13:58 |
| Maxdamantus | My guess is that if the drive is less than 37, it's because something is actively cooling it. | 13:58 |
| KotCzarny | because to keep them cold, they have to actively cool the area | 13:58 |
| Maxdamantus | which will create unnatural temperature differentials across the drive. | 13:59 |
| KotCzarny | in normal laptop/desktop use, you will mostly see 30-40C for hdd | 14:00 |
| Maxdamantus | Like cracking a glass by taking it out of the dishwasher and then pouring some liquid in it from the fridge. | 14:00 |
| KotCzarny | for ssd drives the whole temperature fun is different and complicated | 14:01 |
| Maxdamantus | None of the temperatures involved there are outside of what the glass should handle, but the glass might not be made to handle that difference in temperature between the inside and outside. | 14:01 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I always build with intake fan across the drive bays so rarely see above 30C | 14:02 |
| KotCzarny | funny that there is a probability dip at 45C for google survey | 14:02 |
| Maxdamantus | I suspect that's just due to lack of data. | 14:02 |
| Maxdamantus | unless the failing factors get very complicated after there. | 14:03 |
| KotCzarny | nah, that would just make uncertainity ticks bigger | 14:03 |
| KotCzarny | i would assume some additional factors | 14:03 |
| KotCzarny | applied physics/electronics is fun | 14:04 |
| KotCzarny | btw. from your link: The 2013 University of Virginia study of 10,000 hard drives in a Microsoft datacenter found that the annual failure rate steadily increases with temperature, from about 4% per year at 27 °C to about 10% per year at 44 °C (Figure 5). | 14:05 |
| Maxdamantus | also, > The 2014 Backblaze survey of 34,000 hard drive found no correlation between temperature and failure rate. | 14:05 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, so it's all about comparing apples to apples in the same batch/conditions | 14:06 |
| Maxdamantus | Maybe we should instead just go by what the datasheet says. | 14:06 |
| Maxdamantus | which in my case says not to go above 60 °C | 14:06 |
| KotCzarny | nope, because datasheet only gives operating margins | 14:06 |
| Maxdamantus | or belowe 5 °C | 14:06 |
| Maxdamantus | no, the operating margin is 70 °C | 14:07 |
| KotCzarny | and having upper temperature margin says that temperature IS a factor | 14:07 |
| Maxdamantus | it gives the 60 °C figure as a footnote. | 14:07 |
| Maxdamantus | "Seagate does not recommend operating at a sustained case temperature above 60 °C. Operating at higher temperatures will reduce useful life of the product." | 14:07 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder what is non-useful life of product | 14:08 |
| Maxdamantus | though the temperatures mentioned in the spec sheet are ambient, not drive temperature. | 14:08 |
| Maxdamantus | If it's 5 °C outside, the drive will certainly itself be operating at a higher temperature, since it's going to be dissipating power. | 14:09 |
| KotCzarny | more importantly it's physical params would be different | 14:09 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Well Seatgate do make useful doorstops and paperweights | 14:09 |
| KotCzarny | seatgate sounds like porcelain product bussiness | 14:11 |
| Maxdamantus | I suspect that to some extent, optimising drive lifetime like that will be similar to optimising human lifetime using health supplements. | 14:17 |
| Maxdamantus | fish oil, magnesium, vitamin C, other random stuff that people take without really having any evidence that they need it. | 14:18 |
| KotCzarny | too many factors | 14:22 |
| KotCzarny | you can only create statistical data | 14:22 |
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| brolin_empey | The N900 uses a MiniSIM card. A full-size SIM card is the same size as a credit card. | 22:35 |
| brolin_empey | KotCzarny: I shared the link about the mSATA in Latitude X1 because I did not know of anyone using an mSATA drive in a Latitude X1 before I revisited that forum topic for the first time in years to see if anyone had replied since I last visited the topic. I did not mean that using mSATA in a Latitude X1 was new, only that that was the first time I knew of someone using it. Also, I thought the ThinkPad X40 has a fan? | 22:38 |
| KotCzarny | x40 has a fan but mine runs with modified fan script, mostly fanless | 22:40 |
| KotCzarny | it only turns on when firefox does some ugly webpage | 22:40 |
| KotCzarny | (ie. when cpu jumps over 63C) | 22:40 |
| KotCzarny | mostly it hovers ~35-50C | 22:41 |
| brolin_empey | The Dell Inspiron Mini 1018 and Dell Inspiron Mini 1012 are fanless, x86-64, and use a 2.5-inch SATA HDD/SSD but apparently they lack an integrated numeric keypad. The reviews I redd of them on NotebookCheck.net also say that they are sealed and not designed to be opened by the user. | 22:42 |
| brolin_empey | They are from 2010, though, so they should be cheap by now. | 22:43 |
| brolin_empey | Anyone know much about Client Access Licences (CALs) for Windows Server 2019? I ordered per-user CALs but now wonder if I should have ordered per-device CALs. | 22:46 |
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