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| freemangordon | ShadowJK: ping | 19:53 |
|---|---|---|
| spinal_ | ping | 19:53 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ping | 19:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 19:54 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: have a coule of minutes? | 19:54 |
| freemangordon | in regards of bq chip | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a few | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shoot | 19:55 |
| freemangordon | while working on lested, one of the devs said that maybe the sense resistor value used to do the calculations of current, capacity etc in the kernel driver is wrong | 19:56 |
| freemangordon | *leste | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it shouldn't be hardcoded anyway | 19:56 |
| freemangordon | why? | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 20 and 22 milli both make sense | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? because the driver is opretty generic | 19:57 |
| freemangordon | but he said that if 30 is used, the reported value for design capacity on n900 starts making sense | 19:57 |
| freemangordon | instead of > 2000 mAh it becomes closer to 1350 or somesuch | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want drivers named bq27xxx-10.ko bq27xxx-20.ko etc | 19:58 |
| spinal_ | May paste little fragment from datasheet? | 19:58 |
| freemangordon | sure, now the question is - did anyone ever measured the current withdrawn from the battery and compared it with what is reported? | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, this shows that design capacity as flashed to bq27299 is incorrect | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I did | 19:59 |
| freemangordon | yep, my vague memories told me so :) | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | spinal_: see ^^^ | 20:00 |
| spinal_ | EEPROM Data Registers (EE_DATA) — Address 0x76 — 0x7F | 20:00 |
| spinal_ | The EEPROM data registers contain information vital to the performance of the device. These registers are to be | 20:00 |
| spinal_ | programmed during pack manufacturing to allow flexibility in the design values of the battery to be monitored. | 20:00 |
| spinal_ | The EEPROM data registers are listed in Table 2. Detailed descriptions of what should be programmed follow. | 20:00 |
| spinal_ | See the Programming the EEPROM section for detailed information on writing the values to EEPROM. | 20:00 |
| spinal_ | 0x76 ILMD Initial last measured discharge high byte | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | if reported current value is correct, then sense resistor value MUST be correct as well | 20:00 |
| spinal_ | that's not a big deal for Nokia just to program right values to bq27200 | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | and by correct I mean - matches the measured value | 20:01 |
| spinal_ | we can only measure USB current when charging the phone | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | no | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | you can measure the current directly on battery terminals | 20:01 |
| spinal_ | you are right | 20:01 |
| spinal_ | need to disconnect battery and connect it by wires | 20:02 |
| spinal_ | i'll do it | 20:02 |
| freemangordon | and thats what DocScrutinizer05 did back then iirc | 20:02 |
| freemangordon | spinal_: please do | 20:02 |
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| freemangordon | that would definitely show if RS value is correct | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >><spinal_> that's not a big deal for Nokia just to program right values to bq27200<< however they didn't | 20:03 |
| spinal_ | i bet they did | 20:03 |
| freemangordon | ok, measure the current and we'll see | 20:03 |
| spinal_ | give me 10-15 minutes | 20:04 |
| freemangordon | sure | 20:04 |
| freemangordon | no hurry :) | 20:04 |
| freemangordon | I'll be glad if you;re right | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grecheck LMD vs writing on your battery. When it's vorrect odds are you got right RS, when it's 50% off then you may conclude 30 is not a good value and you better use 20 | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ^^^ | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you also can check RS easily between minus of battery connector and GND e.g. on USB | 20:05 |
| freemangordon | yes, but I guess spinal_ has an old battery with unknown capacity | 20:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 20 milliohms | 20:06 |
| freemangordon | :) | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NOT hardcoded | 20:06 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 20:06 |
| freemangordon | that's another issue | 20:06 |
| freemangordon | the question now is whether 20 is the correct value for n900 | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, tis | 20:06 |
| freemangordon | atherwise for sure it should not be hardcoded | 20:06 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: thanks a lot! | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my own fault, I came up with this 30mR a 7 years ago ;-OP | 20:08 |
| freemangordon | spinal_: ^^^ ;) | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but... >><spinal_> that's not a big deal for Nokia just to program right values to bq27200<< however they didn't | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/bq27k.py | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | original: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27200.sh | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | note the obsolete "30" in comment | 20:24 |
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| spinal_ | hm | 20:36 |
| spinal_ | do I need to connect middle terminal too? | 20:36 |
| spinal_ | that's gonna be hard | 20:36 |
| spinal_ | doesn't start with just 2 terminals connected | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://termbin.com/ni58 | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, BSI disconnect causes emergency shutdown | 20:38 |
| spinal_ | freemangordon, i thought.... | 20:39 |
| spinal_ | how do you propose to measure the current? | 20:40 |
| spinal_ | with ampermeter | 20:40 |
| spinal_ | ammeter | 20:40 |
| freemangordon | yes | 20:40 |
| spinal_ | how? | 20:40 |
| spinal_ | if I connect all wires and measure it when the phone is on | 20:40 |
| spinal_ | what value should i get? | 20:40 |
| spinal_ | the value going to the battery exclusively or to battery + working device? | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | the same value that is reported by bq for current | 20:41 |
| spinal_ | really? | 20:41 |
| spinal_ | i | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | battery + working device | 20:41 |
| spinal_ | the value reported by the kernel is the current going from/to the battery | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | spinal_: I still think LMD is way easier | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | yes | 20:42 |
| spinal_ | that's why you get message "The device consumes more memory than it gets from charge" | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | not, this is nother story | 20:42 |
| spinal_ | ah, sorry, my mistake you're right | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | you should not connect charger/usb when measuring | 20:42 |
| spinal_ | yep | 20:42 |
| spinal_ | i still thinking how to connect all terminals without soldering :p | 20:43 |
| spinal_ | seems i need more time | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you shouldn't, it's pretty pointless and honestly I only was able to do wuth a frabkenstein battery with wires retrofitted to protection circuit | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you shouldn't, it's pretty pointless and honestly I only was able to do with a frankenstein battery with wires retrofitted to protection circuit | 20:44 |
| freemangordon | spinal_: listen to what doc says, he knows what he is talking about. usually :p | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | try with LMD | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | measure resustance between battery connector - and device GND | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | why is that? | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | RS is serial to the batteru | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or simply check LMD and compare to what you get when charging battery externally | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | *battery | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RS is in battery minus | 20:46 |
| spinal_ | 20mOhm is too little to measure it accurately anyway | 20:46 |
| spinal_ | so, i only can use soldering, no other options | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you ruin your device by soldering battery contacts | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | must not have tin/lead plating which as contact problems | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | has* | 20:50 |
| spinal_ | yep | 20:50 |
| spinal_ | so I will now measure current with simple USB and compare to what driver show | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe believe Nokia? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while they never disclosed the RS balue, they use 20m in BME | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 20:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and a new BL-5J(?) battery has a LMD of 1320 with RS=22 | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1320 to 1340 | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or believe me, I probed on disassembled device | 20:55 |
| ShadowJK | 20mR is the correct nominal value. the components (there are two) don't seem that accurate from device to device, I've seen between 21 and 23 in real life devices | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure Nokia programmed *anything* to BQ EEPROM | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, or you believe ShadowJK who knows his shit | 20:57 |
| spinal_ | i need a way to connect to battery terminals without soldering and short circuit... | 20:58 |
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| spinal_ | probably i need to use paper for isolation and something to hold wires | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough I used exactly same rationale for argumenting why 30m might be more correct, a decade ago | 20:58 |
| spinal_ | it's correct | 20:59 |
| ShadowJK | It's actuall 2pcs 10mR connected in series. One of the Nokia-proprietary chips tap off one of the sense resistors, and bq chip taps off of both. | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ | 20:59 |
| spinal_ | so probably i gonna do it later, need to think | 21:00 |
| ShadowJK | Did anyone ever figure out how it all got put together in bme? Because bme sure as hell never cased for the coloumb counting in bq | 21:00 |
| spinal_ | i was never satisfied how it shows the battery percentage | 21:01 |
| spinal_ | it dropped occasionally very fast | 21:01 |
| ShadowJK | I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the bme code there was remains of dealing with nicad | 21:02 |
| spinal_ | so I think they just didn't have the time to use all the power bq27200 provides | 21:02 |
| spinal_ | i think they just relied on voltage for measurements | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: you're right, there is | 21:03 |
| spinal_ | I hope I will measure the current tomorrow, need more time | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | VME is cargop cult | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BME* | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | spinal_: have fun. Please do _not_ bither me with results | 21:04 |
| spinal_ | what is bither? | 21:05 |
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| ShadowJK | bother | 21:06 |
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| ShadowJK | It's not just the design capacity that is not set properly, it's also the voltage thresholds, the chip doesn't work properly in normal use because the device gets shut down before the voltage is low enough for bq27200 to update the current battery capacity | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just meant to prove current | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probe* | 21:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and voltage | 21:09 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder if the next iteration was more sane.. | 21:10 |
| ShadowJK | Because the previous N810 had just the nokie proprietary chip, N900 had both | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | N810 had a proprietary chip? Thought it did mere TI OMAP companion chip charging | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus software | 21:12 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: you've measured RS directly on the board? | 21:12 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05, no N810 was fully compliant with nokia 2mm barrel charging spec (which shifted a large part of regulation to the powersupply) | 21:13 |
| ShadowJK | freemangordon, no | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: aaj yep | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I did | 21:15 |
| freemangordon | ok | 21:15 |
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| ShadowJK | For a generic bq27200 driver, of course different device manufacturers will use different sense resistors | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though iirc the appnotes also have 20m | 21:17 |
| freemangordon | right | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't forbid any manuif using 10 or eveb up to 50, so no hardcoding of 20 without module parameter override | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this been all in my bq27xx.ko specs :-/ | 21:19 |
| freemangordon | it is DTS now, module parameters are forbidden ;) | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WUT?? | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fsck DTS | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the DTS designers had no idea how hw works | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually hardcoding 20 would be exactly what I'd expect from DTS devils | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cpmpletely ignoring the >>doesn't forbid any manuf using 10 or even up to 50<< reality | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | actually it is Nokia that hardcoded it back then | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | before DTS times | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | and seems nobody bothered to make it variable | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, since nokia followed my fav approach of kernel tailored for device | 21:23 |
| Wizzup | which also meant that it was hard to upstream ;) | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, nokia never had any bq27xx module | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nokia had NME | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BME* | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which obviously never goes upstream | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe they gad sth similar in N9 | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though N9 has no bq27200/bq27000 | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PT: why does a command that works fine under user account try and fail to write to /var/run/upslog.pid and still work? http://termbin.com/hps8 | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OT even | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MEH!! UPSLOG(8) | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WHY??? | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is /bar/run even supposed to not be world readable, with only owner being able to delete own pid file? | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | would make more sense to me | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually upsmon allows -u username If started as root, upsmon will setuid(2) to the user id associated with username for security. | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so how would it inlink own pid file after that? | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unlink* | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and who needs such pid file anyway, and for what? | 21:45 |
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| Maxdamantus | /scroll end | 22:44 |
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| sicelo | 20:58 < spinal_> i need a way to connect to battery terminals without soldering and short circuit... << http://n900.elektranox.org/serial-adapter.html .. one neat way by Sebastian reichel | 23:29 |
| Wizzup | sicelo: he's not here anymore, try other chan | 23:29 |
| sicelo | thanks :) | 23:30 |
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