IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2018-06-30

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brolin_empeyhttps://www.asus.com/support/PageNoServer09:33
brolin_empeyApparently Asus silently closed their VIP Forum (for use by customers, with one forum per product model) without notifying me even though I had registered and posted on this forum. :-/09:33
brolin_empeyThis page uses conditional client-side scripting to load jQuery from the Asus site instead of from Google if the script runs on a .cn site due to Google being blocked by the Great Firewall of the “People’s Republic of China”.09:36
brolin_empeysicelo: KotCzarny: If you have a computer that can (directly) boot from USB, you can use a USB device that emulates a bootable ODD to boot a physical computer from an optical disc image file without using a physical ODD even if GRUB cannot boot the optical disc image file.  I use this product from StarTech but StarTech has discontinued this product without providing an explanation.  I bought the very last of this product that Synnex had. https://www.startech09:47
brolin_empey.com/support/S2510BU3ISO09:47
KotCzarnygrub can boot iso just fine09:48
KotCzarnyalso, his usb ports are fried09:48
brolin_empeyYou can buy a 32-GB 2.5-inch SATA SSD that works with this product for around $25 (USD or maybe CAD) on eBay.09:49
KotCzarnyalso, he is located in south africa which kills everything by shipping costs09:49
KotCzarnyalso, x40 uses 1.8" drives, not 2.509:50
KotCzarnyi personally use 1.8" pata to msata adapter and use 32gb samsung card09:50
KotCzarnymakes x40 fly (then bump on cpu ceiling)09:51
MaxdamantusGRUB can't boot arbitrary ISOs.09:53
Maxdamantusunless the OS is using BIOS to access the CD drive.09:53
KotCzarnymaxd: if the os is only loading kernel+ramdisk it's fine09:54
MaxdamantusDepends on the system. If you're talking about some Linux install disc, those are usually produced in such a way that they are fairly agnostic about the source of the CD data.09:55
KotCzarnyit was in the context of UBD or something09:56
brolin_empeyKotCzarny: I just lost the long reply I was writing to you because the Quassel IRC client suddenly died because my computer ran out of memory again because I cannot have more than 8 GiB of main memory unless I upgrade from a Core 2 era (Socket T AKA LGA775 motherboard) computer.  So now I have to rewrite the whole reply I was writing.  Sigh.10:16
* KotCzarny laughs at brolin_empey from his 1.5GB totin' x40 :P10:16
* KotCzarny mumbles ..spoiledbrats..10:17
brolin_empeyKotCzarny: My Latitude X1 has 2 GiB of main memory, which is 0.5 GiB more than your ThinkPad X40. :-P10:18
brolin_empeyKotCzarny: As Maxdamantus said, GRUB cannot boot all optical disc image files (.iso files).  I think there used to be and maybe still is a note about this in the topic of the GRUB channel on freenode.  I know that the USB ports on the ThinkPad X40 of sicelo are broken.  That is why I said “If you have a computer that can (directly) boot from USB”.  I know that sicelo lives in Africa.  I know that the ThinkPad X40 uses a 1.8-inch PATA HDD/SSD because we10:26
brolin_empeyhave already discussed this subject.  “this product” was in the context of the StarTech product I mentioned, not a computer that uses this StarTech product.10:26
brolin_empeyEven if you can boot from a physical ODD or from an optical disc image file on an HDD, booting from a solid-state virtual ODD such as this StarTech product using an SSD instead of an HDD is probably the fastest way to boot a physical computer from an optical disc (image file) because there is no seek time.10:30
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brolin_empeyI have a long weekend because of Canada Day on July 1, think I should finally buy a current x86-64 desktop computer to replace my Core 2 era desktop computer.  I chose this model of motherboard months ago, maybe already at least six months ago: https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/PRIME-B250M-C-CSM/specifications/ Other than use of a fan and the lack of support for ECC RAM, is there any reason I should not choose this model of motherboard?  I guess I10:57
brolin_empeyshould research if there is any firmware lameness such as Secure Boot (sic) being locked on because I am used to Core 2 era and earlier computers that still use BIOS instead of EFI.10:57
MaxdamantusI'd be extremely surprised if you could buy just a motherboard that had Secure Boot locked on.11:05
* Maxdamantus wonders if people even sell laptops with Secure Boot locked on.11:05
Maxdamantus("locked on" as in no way to disable it)11:06
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siceloyay! i got sound on the X40 again .. with alsa only. no idea where pulseaudio fails14:06
KotCzarny~poettering14:06
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal14:06
KotCzarnyhere ^14:06
KotCzarny;)14:06
sicelowell, alsa itself has been having issues. i had to `alsactl init`14:08
siceloi'll have to get PA work at some point for those applications that hneed it, such as FF, iirc14:08
* Maxdamantus uses FF without PA.14:09
siceloi agree PA sucks, and sucks that FF should depend on it14:09
KotCzarnylook for pawrapper14:09
KotCzarnyapulse or something14:09
KotCzarnyit allows to run apps requiring PA to run on plain alsa system14:09
siceloi'm even more annoyed that there is so much s/w depending on network manager unnecessarily. tried to install dino-im (xmpp client) and it wanted to pull in network manager on debian. i have no need for NM as yet, so i went with gajim instead14:10
* Maxdamantus doesn't think he's even using anything like pawrapper around his Firefox.14:10
sicelo i will try apulse. i saw it in passing a few days ago.  hope it will work14:10
KotCzarnymaxd: since a few revisions ff requires pa for any audio output14:11
KotCzarnywhich is sad14:11
sicelolet /me actually try FF now that alsa is working (with no pulse)14:11
KotCzarnyi wonder how much did they pay for that14:11
MaxdamantusHm .. okay, maybe my version is a bit old then (58)14:11
KotCzarnymaxd: might be also your distro uses own compiled version14:12
KotCzarnyalthough then they would have to change the name14:12
MaxdamantusI'm using it through nix.14:12
siceloFF 60.0.2 here. no sound14:13
KotCzarnythey (ff) had alsa and pa in parallel for few revisions, then they've dropped alsa completely (although i think it still can be recompiled to use it)14:14
KotCzarnyhttps://github.com/i-rinat/apulse#firefox-58-tabs-crashing-when-trying-to-play-audio14:15
KotCzarnyhehe14:15
Maxdamantusthe nix expression for firefox 61 still includes options around using pulse/alsa.14:16
sicelog2g, will be back soon14:16
MaxdamantusSeems to still work in 6114:29
KotCzarnyusing stock ff or something packaged?14:29
MaxdamantusUsing the current build of nixpkgs master.14:29
Maxdamantuswell, the build of current nixpkgs master.14:29
Maxdamantusno package overrides.14:29
Maxdamantusfwiw, NixOS itself systemd and pretty sure it normally uses pulseaudio, so it's not like it's a weird build that excludes PA.14:30
MaxdamantusNixOS itself uses systemd*14:31
Maxdamantus(I'm not using NixOS though, just nix)14:31
Maxdamantus(and I'm not running any PA server/wrapper)14:31
KotCzarnymfking debian, gtk3 tries to install systemd (along with 51 other packages)14:37
siceloheh14:51
WizzupKotCzarny: devuan?14:51
KotCzarnywizzup, will be probably if i get angry a bit more14:52
KotCzarnyor i will just reinstall that vm with slackware14:52
Wizzup*cough* gentoo :P14:52
KotCzarnygento got 'hacked' yesterday14:52
KotCzarny:P14:52
siceloyeah i saw some post14:53
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buZzlink? :)14:55
buZzah https://thehackernews.com/2018/06/gentoo-linux-github.html14:55
WizzupKotCzarny: the github orga of gentoo-mirror iirc14:55
Wizzupportage is signed, so nbd14:55
buZzhttps://archive.is/NSKrT14:57
buZzhehe14:57
DocScrutinizer05not that troll again :-/15:05
DocScrutinizer05aa maybe that troll would use the other N word15:05
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Maxdamantus23:55 < Wizzup> portage is signed, so nbd15:19
MaxdamantusThough I doubt many people who actually use the git mirror of portage will check the signatures.15:20
Maxdamantusin fact, I don't see any tags/signatures in my clone of it.15:22
Maxdamantus(which was last updated in march, apparently)15:22
* Maxdamantus has mostly preferred using nix for package management15:22
WizzupMaxdamantus: the sw checks that afaik15:26
MaxdamantusWhat sw? git?15:27
Wizzupportage...15:27
MaxdamantusI'd be slightly surprised by that .. I'd've imagined the point of using git is that you don't need to have portage do the update for you.15:28
Wizzupyou don't use it.15:28
Wizzupuse git15:28
Wizzupyou write 'emerge --sync'15:28
Wizzupor eix-sync.15:28
Maxdamantusyou just do `cd /usr/portage && git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master`15:28
WizzupI have never seen any guide recommending that.15:29
Maxdamantusand then `eix-sync --update` or something.15:29
WizzupThat's quite insane.15:29
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Maxdamantuseix-update, rather15:31
Wizzupwho told you to not just use eix-sync or emerge --sync?15:32
MaxdamantusNoone. Just logic.15:33
Maxdamantus/usr/portage just contains some files.15:33
WizzupOk, so you're doing it entirely wrong. Yes, then you're doing it wrong.15:33
Maxdamantusemerge reads those files.15:33
WizzupEven still, they just did a 'git push -f'. So git would still scream.15:33
MaxdamantusScream?15:33
Wizzupever tried to force push and then pull from another machine?15:34
Maxdamantus00:28:47 < Maxdamantus> you just do `cd /usr/portage && git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master`15:34
MaxdamantusI don't pull, but sure .. if someone is silly enough to use the `pull` functionality in git, they'll have to deal with a bunch of stupid problems.15:34
Wizzupmaybe just do 'rm -rf /*' yourself if you insist on doing it wrong15:34
* Wizzup out15:34
MaxdamantusWell, the mechanism I gave above doesn't have any issues with force pushes .. it'll just note that teh update was a force push when I do `git fetch`15:35
MaxdamantusSince I'm not actually developing the ebuilds, I have no reason to do something like pull/merge.15:36
Maxdamantusand again, "pull" functionality in git is very silly; noone should use it.15:36
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Maxdamantusremote tracking/pull/etc is just a waste of complexity that gives no real gain over the functionality already provided by fetch/merge/checkout15:37
* KotCzarny always does pulls15:37
Wizzupyep, pull --rebase and pull --ff-only ftw15:38
Maxdamantusgit fetch && git rebase remotes/origin/master15:38
Wizzupwhich still doesn't justify not using the right tools to fetch portage.15:38
Wizzupthere's a ton of ways you can fuck up anything, and you just found one of them.15:39
WizzupI don't see how this is relevant15:39
Maxdamantus(personally, I wouldn't do both of those things in the same command .. I would fetch and see what other people have changed before considering to rebase)15:39
MaxdamantusSo where does portage find these signatures in git?15:40
MaxdamantusI can't seem to find much documentation about actually using git.15:40
Maxdamantuss/much/any/15:40
infobotMaxdamantus meant: I can't seem to find any documentation about actually using git.15:40
Maxdamantusjust some people suggesting that it might be possible in some forums.15:40
Wizzupthat's because you always use emerge --sync, and you can use git if you specify it in repos.conf15:40
Wizzuphttps://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki//etc/portage/repos.conf sync-uri15:41
Wizzupand I checked: using git doesn't verify the sigs - there are patches for it, but it's not done by default. good that I use webrsync and rsync still :)15:41
Wizzupusing a git sync-uri doesn't*15:42
MaxdamantusWell, based on what I see from march, it doesn't even have any signatures.15:42
Wizzuphttps://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Portage/Repository_Verification15:43
MaxdamantusMy current remotes/origin/master is a017f8a1db67ba0ca7149ae957b6aa5268bd4e31 , which doesn't have a signature in the commit message, and doesn't seem to manipulate anything in the tree that looks like a signature.15:43
WizzupThe verification starts at the top-level Manifest, that is a Manifest file located in root directory of the ebuild repository. This file must contain a valid OpenPGP signature which is verified before any other file is read from the repository. If the signature passes verification, the Manifest tree is read recursively.15:43
Wizzupyou're assuming that the git commits are signed instead15:43
MaxdamantusThat's under rsync.15:44
MaxdamantusSeems like a weird way to deal with signatures in git.15:45
WizzupManifest files are just files. They are always synced.15:45
Wizzup>>>in git<<<15:45
WizzupYou're assumption that git fits everyones needs here is wrong, therefore there needs to be a solution that covers more than just git15:45
WizzupYour*15:45
Maxdamantussince every update to the master branch would need to include an update to the "Manifest" file.15:45
Wizzupthis is how manifest files in portage have worked at least 10 years15:47
Wizzupprobably longer.15:47
Maxdamantusbut given that the development itself seems to happen in git, presumably such Manifest files would just be generated when updating the trees from git.15:50
Maxdamantushttps://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=8f7e30e3882709d6254b8bba8c2713700d5dcabf15:52
Maxdamantuscurrent master15:52
MaxdamantusDoesn't involve some root signature mechanism.15:52
Maxdamantusanyway, this is all irrelevant. As we've already established, neither my way of updating portage through git nor the "actual" way (currently) involves signature verification.15:53
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sicelowhat would cause my N900 to download at max 50KB/s  when the network allows download speed of up to 20Mbps.17:45
Wizzupshitty wireless?17:45
KotCzarnycongested ether?17:45
KotCzarnylots of retransmision?17:45
KotCzarnyisp f*cking you over the oversold bandwidth?17:45
Wizzuphave you ever seen the n900 do 20Mbps over wifi?17:46
KotCzarnytry running ping -s8 8.8.8.8 in background to keep gsm active17:46
WizzupI don't think I've ever seen it do more than maybe 200KB/s on wifi, even in my lan.17:46
siceloi think problem is on N900. i don't need it to do 20Mbps, but surely 50KB/s is plain unfair :)17:46
sicelothat sucks.17:46
KotCzarnysicelo: wifi or gsm?17:47
sicelowifi17:47
KotCzarnyshould go at least 10-20x faster then17:47
KotCzarnychange wifi channel?17:47
WizzupKotCzarny: I repeat my question17:47
KotCzarnywizzup: which one?17:48
Wizzup16:46 < Wizzup> have you ever seen the n900 do 20Mbps over wifi?17:48
KotCzarnyi saw 500-600kB at least17:48
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KotCzarnyand i suspect it might go higher with overclocked cpu17:49
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siceloi am even suspecting that gsm might be faster than wifi then .. i should buy a data package & do a speed test18:03
KotCzarnytry changing channel on ap first18:03
sicelonot my ap unfortunately18:04
KotCzarnythen you might be simply too far/too noisy18:05
sicelohehe, i'm sitting in front of it18:06
siceloguess i should just concede N900 has bad wifi18:06
KotCzarnystill, shouldnt be THAT slow18:07
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sicelodumb me18:22
siceloa quick google pointed to a response i gave someone complaining of same issue on tmo a while ago :p18:22
sicelopower savings18:23
KotCzarny:)18:23
KotCzarnyi wonder if world without google would be dumber or smarter18:23
siceloi put it on intermediate (it was on maximum bfore) and got 242kBps18:24
siceloi'm annoyed that *I* gave the answer haha, and now i couldn't help myself18:24
sicelo500KB/s with no power savings.18:27
KotCzarnybut without ps it will eat battery really quick18:28
KotCzarnyi usually leave it at intermediate18:28
siceloyes18:28
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Wizzupah, I always have it on maximum power saving.18:32
KotCzarnymax ps sucks for ssh18:32
Wizzupyes18:32
Wizzupany clue how this is changed?18:32
Wizzupwonder if I can add this to libicd-network-wpasupplicant18:32
Wizzupprobably some nonstandard kernel iface?18:33
KotCzarnythis meaning ps?18:33
Wizzupyep18:33
KotCzarnyisnt it driver's thing?18:33
sicelomaybe iwconfig .. power saving18:34
KotCzarnypowersaving is a flag exposed by nl8021118:35
Wizzupok18:36
KotCzarnyalthough fremantle might've had additional code, with nl80211 you usually only turn it on and off18:37
siceloiwconfig (now deprecated?) has levels of power saving ... in one of my scripts i have 'iwconfig wlan0 power saving 1'18:39
KotCzarnydidn't know that18:39
sicelonow i wonder how to toggle fremantle's power savings automatically, instead of clicking your way into the control panel18:43
KotCzarnyiwconfig? ;)18:43
sicelo:)18:44
siceloheh, looks like it might just be toggling one power saving state anyway, but locking at different bit rates. intermediate seems locked at 6Mb/s, at least as far as iwconfig can see18:49
Wizzuphm18:49
KotCzarnywould be funny18:49
siceloanyway, maybe i'm wrong here. will test properly when i'm home & settled.18:50
sicelook. no, that hypothesis is wrong18:54
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