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| brolin_empey | https://www.asus.com/support/PageNoServer | 09:33 |
| brolin_empey | Apparently Asus silently closed their VIP Forum (for use by customers, with one forum per product model) without notifying me even though I had registered and posted on this forum. :-/ | 09:33 |
| brolin_empey | This page uses conditional client-side scripting to load jQuery from the Asus site instead of from Google if the script runs on a .cn site due to Google being blocked by the Great Firewall of the “People’s Republic of China”. | 09:36 |
| brolin_empey | sicelo: KotCzarny: If you have a computer that can (directly) boot from USB, you can use a USB device that emulates a bootable ODD to boot a physical computer from an optical disc image file without using a physical ODD even if GRUB cannot boot the optical disc image file. I use this product from StarTech but StarTech has discontinued this product without providing an explanation. I bought the very last of this product that Synnex had. https://www.startech | 09:47 |
| brolin_empey | .com/support/S2510BU3ISO | 09:47 |
| KotCzarny | grub can boot iso just fine | 09:48 |
| KotCzarny | also, his usb ports are fried | 09:48 |
| brolin_empey | You can buy a 32-GB 2.5-inch SATA SSD that works with this product for around $25 (USD or maybe CAD) on eBay. | 09:49 |
| KotCzarny | also, he is located in south africa which kills everything by shipping costs | 09:49 |
| KotCzarny | also, x40 uses 1.8" drives, not 2.5 | 09:50 |
| KotCzarny | i personally use 1.8" pata to msata adapter and use 32gb samsung card | 09:50 |
| KotCzarny | makes x40 fly (then bump on cpu ceiling) | 09:51 |
| Maxdamantus | GRUB can't boot arbitrary ISOs. | 09:53 |
| Maxdamantus | unless the OS is using BIOS to access the CD drive. | 09:53 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: if the os is only loading kernel+ramdisk it's fine | 09:54 |
| Maxdamantus | Depends on the system. If you're talking about some Linux install disc, those are usually produced in such a way that they are fairly agnostic about the source of the CD data. | 09:55 |
| KotCzarny | it was in the context of UBD or something | 09:56 |
| brolin_empey | KotCzarny: I just lost the long reply I was writing to you because the Quassel IRC client suddenly died because my computer ran out of memory again because I cannot have more than 8 GiB of main memory unless I upgrade from a Core 2 era (Socket T AKA LGA775 motherboard) computer. So now I have to rewrite the whole reply I was writing. Sigh. | 10:16 |
| * KotCzarny laughs at brolin_empey from his 1.5GB totin' x40 :P | 10:16 | |
| * KotCzarny mumbles ..spoiledbrats.. | 10:17 | |
| brolin_empey | KotCzarny: My Latitude X1 has 2 GiB of main memory, which is 0.5 GiB more than your ThinkPad X40. :-P | 10:18 |
| brolin_empey | KotCzarny: As Maxdamantus said, GRUB cannot boot all optical disc image files (.iso files). I think there used to be and maybe still is a note about this in the topic of the GRUB channel on freenode. I know that the USB ports on the ThinkPad X40 of sicelo are broken. That is why I said “If you have a computer that can (directly) boot from USB”. I know that sicelo lives in Africa. I know that the ThinkPad X40 uses a 1.8-inch PATA HDD/SSD because we | 10:26 |
| brolin_empey | have already discussed this subject. “this product” was in the context of the StarTech product I mentioned, not a computer that uses this StarTech product. | 10:26 |
| brolin_empey | Even if you can boot from a physical ODD or from an optical disc image file on an HDD, booting from a solid-state virtual ODD such as this StarTech product using an SSD instead of an HDD is probably the fastest way to boot a physical computer from an optical disc (image file) because there is no seek time. | 10:30 |
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| brolin_empey | I have a long weekend because of Canada Day on July 1, think I should finally buy a current x86-64 desktop computer to replace my Core 2 era desktop computer. I chose this model of motherboard months ago, maybe already at least six months ago: https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/PRIME-B250M-C-CSM/specifications/ Other than use of a fan and the lack of support for ECC RAM, is there any reason I should not choose this model of motherboard? I guess I | 10:57 |
| brolin_empey | should research if there is any firmware lameness such as Secure Boot (sic) being locked on because I am used to Core 2 era and earlier computers that still use BIOS instead of EFI. | 10:57 |
| Maxdamantus | I'd be extremely surprised if you could buy just a motherboard that had Secure Boot locked on. | 11:05 |
| * Maxdamantus wonders if people even sell laptops with Secure Boot locked on. | 11:05 | |
| Maxdamantus | ("locked on" as in no way to disable it) | 11:06 |
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| sicelo | yay! i got sound on the X40 again .. with alsa only. no idea where pulseaudio fails | 14:06 |
| KotCzarny | ~poettering | 14:06 |
| infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal | 14:06 |
| KotCzarny | here ^ | 14:06 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 14:06 |
| sicelo | well, alsa itself has been having issues. i had to `alsactl init` | 14:08 |
| sicelo | i'll have to get PA work at some point for those applications that hneed it, such as FF, iirc | 14:08 |
| * Maxdamantus uses FF without PA. | 14:09 | |
| sicelo | i agree PA sucks, and sucks that FF should depend on it | 14:09 |
| KotCzarny | look for pawrapper | 14:09 |
| KotCzarny | apulse or something | 14:09 |
| KotCzarny | it allows to run apps requiring PA to run on plain alsa system | 14:09 |
| sicelo | i'm even more annoyed that there is so much s/w depending on network manager unnecessarily. tried to install dino-im (xmpp client) and it wanted to pull in network manager on debian. i have no need for NM as yet, so i went with gajim instead | 14:10 |
| * Maxdamantus doesn't think he's even using anything like pawrapper around his Firefox. | 14:10 | |
| sicelo | i will try apulse. i saw it in passing a few days ago. hope it will work | 14:10 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: since a few revisions ff requires pa for any audio output | 14:11 |
| KotCzarny | which is sad | 14:11 |
| sicelo | let /me actually try FF now that alsa is working (with no pulse) | 14:11 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder how much did they pay for that | 14:11 |
| Maxdamantus | Hm .. okay, maybe my version is a bit old then (58) | 14:11 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: might be also your distro uses own compiled version | 14:12 |
| KotCzarny | although then they would have to change the name | 14:12 |
| Maxdamantus | I'm using it through nix. | 14:12 |
| sicelo | FF 60.0.2 here. no sound | 14:13 |
| KotCzarny | they (ff) had alsa and pa in parallel for few revisions, then they've dropped alsa completely (although i think it still can be recompiled to use it) | 14:14 |
| KotCzarny | https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse#firefox-58-tabs-crashing-when-trying-to-play-audio | 14:15 |
| KotCzarny | hehe | 14:15 |
| Maxdamantus | the nix expression for firefox 61 still includes options around using pulse/alsa. | 14:16 |
| sicelo | g2g, will be back soon | 14:16 |
| Maxdamantus | Seems to still work in 61 | 14:29 |
| KotCzarny | using stock ff or something packaged? | 14:29 |
| Maxdamantus | Using the current build of nixpkgs master. | 14:29 |
| Maxdamantus | well, the build of current nixpkgs master. | 14:29 |
| Maxdamantus | no package overrides. | 14:29 |
| Maxdamantus | fwiw, NixOS itself systemd and pretty sure it normally uses pulseaudio, so it's not like it's a weird build that excludes PA. | 14:30 |
| Maxdamantus | NixOS itself uses systemd* | 14:31 |
| Maxdamantus | (I'm not using NixOS though, just nix) | 14:31 |
| Maxdamantus | (and I'm not running any PA server/wrapper) | 14:31 |
| KotCzarny | mfking debian, gtk3 tries to install systemd (along with 51 other packages) | 14:37 |
| sicelo | heh | 14:51 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: devuan? | 14:51 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup, will be probably if i get angry a bit more | 14:52 |
| KotCzarny | or i will just reinstall that vm with slackware | 14:52 |
| Wizzup | *cough* gentoo :P | 14:52 |
| KotCzarny | gento got 'hacked' yesterday | 14:52 |
| KotCzarny | :P | 14:52 |
| sicelo | yeah i saw some post | 14:53 |
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| buZz | link? :) | 14:55 |
| buZz | ah https://thehackernews.com/2018/06/gentoo-linux-github.html | 14:55 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: the github orga of gentoo-mirror iirc | 14:55 |
| Wizzup | portage is signed, so nbd | 14:55 |
| buZz | https://archive.is/NSKrT | 14:57 |
| buZz | hehe | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that troll again :-/ | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aa maybe that troll would use the other N word | 15:05 |
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| Maxdamantus | 23:55 < Wizzup> portage is signed, so nbd | 15:19 |
| Maxdamantus | Though I doubt many people who actually use the git mirror of portage will check the signatures. | 15:20 |
| Maxdamantus | in fact, I don't see any tags/signatures in my clone of it. | 15:22 |
| Maxdamantus | (which was last updated in march, apparently) | 15:22 |
| * Maxdamantus has mostly preferred using nix for package management | 15:22 | |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: the sw checks that afaik | 15:26 |
| Maxdamantus | What sw? git? | 15:27 |
| Wizzup | portage... | 15:27 |
| Maxdamantus | I'd be slightly surprised by that .. I'd've imagined the point of using git is that you don't need to have portage do the update for you. | 15:28 |
| Wizzup | you don't use it. | 15:28 |
| Wizzup | use git | 15:28 |
| Wizzup | you write 'emerge --sync' | 15:28 |
| Wizzup | or eix-sync. | 15:28 |
| Maxdamantus | you just do `cd /usr/portage && git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master` | 15:28 |
| Wizzup | I have never seen any guide recommending that. | 15:29 |
| Maxdamantus | and then `eix-sync --update` or something. | 15:29 |
| Wizzup | That's quite insane. | 15:29 |
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| Maxdamantus | eix-update, rather | 15:31 |
| Wizzup | who told you to not just use eix-sync or emerge --sync? | 15:32 |
| Maxdamantus | Noone. Just logic. | 15:33 |
| Maxdamantus | /usr/portage just contains some files. | 15:33 |
| Wizzup | Ok, so you're doing it entirely wrong. Yes, then you're doing it wrong. | 15:33 |
| Maxdamantus | emerge reads those files. | 15:33 |
| Wizzup | Even still, they just did a 'git push -f'. So git would still scream. | 15:33 |
| Maxdamantus | Scream? | 15:33 |
| Wizzup | ever tried to force push and then pull from another machine? | 15:34 |
| Maxdamantus | 00:28:47 < Maxdamantus> you just do `cd /usr/portage && git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master` | 15:34 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't pull, but sure .. if someone is silly enough to use the `pull` functionality in git, they'll have to deal with a bunch of stupid problems. | 15:34 |
| Wizzup | maybe just do 'rm -rf /*' yourself if you insist on doing it wrong | 15:34 |
| * Wizzup out | 15:34 | |
| Maxdamantus | Well, the mechanism I gave above doesn't have any issues with force pushes .. it'll just note that teh update was a force push when I do `git fetch` | 15:35 |
| Maxdamantus | Since I'm not actually developing the ebuilds, I have no reason to do something like pull/merge. | 15:36 |
| Maxdamantus | and again, "pull" functionality in git is very silly; noone should use it. | 15:36 |
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| Maxdamantus | remote tracking/pull/etc is just a waste of complexity that gives no real gain over the functionality already provided by fetch/merge/checkout | 15:37 |
| * KotCzarny always does pulls | 15:37 | |
| Wizzup | yep, pull --rebase and pull --ff-only ftw | 15:38 |
| Maxdamantus | git fetch && git rebase remotes/origin/master | 15:38 |
| Wizzup | which still doesn't justify not using the right tools to fetch portage. | 15:38 |
| Wizzup | there's a ton of ways you can fuck up anything, and you just found one of them. | 15:39 |
| Wizzup | I don't see how this is relevant | 15:39 |
| Maxdamantus | (personally, I wouldn't do both of those things in the same command .. I would fetch and see what other people have changed before considering to rebase) | 15:39 |
| Maxdamantus | So where does portage find these signatures in git? | 15:40 |
| Maxdamantus | I can't seem to find much documentation about actually using git. | 15:40 |
| Maxdamantus | s/much/any/ | 15:40 |
| infobot | Maxdamantus meant: I can't seem to find any documentation about actually using git. | 15:40 |
| Maxdamantus | just some people suggesting that it might be possible in some forums. | 15:40 |
| Wizzup | that's because you always use emerge --sync, and you can use git if you specify it in repos.conf | 15:40 |
| Wizzup | https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki//etc/portage/repos.conf sync-uri | 15:41 |
| Wizzup | and I checked: using git doesn't verify the sigs - there are patches for it, but it's not done by default. good that I use webrsync and rsync still :) | 15:41 |
| Wizzup | using a git sync-uri doesn't* | 15:42 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, based on what I see from march, it doesn't even have any signatures. | 15:42 |
| Wizzup | https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Portage/Repository_Verification | 15:43 |
| Maxdamantus | My current remotes/origin/master is a017f8a1db67ba0ca7149ae957b6aa5268bd4e31 , which doesn't have a signature in the commit message, and doesn't seem to manipulate anything in the tree that looks like a signature. | 15:43 |
| Wizzup | The verification starts at the top-level Manifest, that is a Manifest file located in root directory of the ebuild repository. This file must contain a valid OpenPGP signature which is verified before any other file is read from the repository. If the signature passes verification, the Manifest tree is read recursively. | 15:43 |
| Wizzup | you're assuming that the git commits are signed instead | 15:43 |
| Maxdamantus | That's under rsync. | 15:44 |
| Maxdamantus | Seems like a weird way to deal with signatures in git. | 15:45 |
| Wizzup | Manifest files are just files. They are always synced. | 15:45 |
| Wizzup | >>>in git<<< | 15:45 |
| Wizzup | You're assumption that git fits everyones needs here is wrong, therefore there needs to be a solution that covers more than just git | 15:45 |
| Wizzup | Your* | 15:45 |
| Maxdamantus | since every update to the master branch would need to include an update to the "Manifest" file. | 15:45 |
| Wizzup | this is how manifest files in portage have worked at least 10 years | 15:47 |
| Wizzup | probably longer. | 15:47 |
| Maxdamantus | but given that the development itself seems to happen in git, presumably such Manifest files would just be generated when updating the trees from git. | 15:50 |
| Maxdamantus | https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=8f7e30e3882709d6254b8bba8c2713700d5dcabf | 15:52 |
| Maxdamantus | current master | 15:52 |
| Maxdamantus | Doesn't involve some root signature mechanism. | 15:52 |
| Maxdamantus | anyway, this is all irrelevant. As we've already established, neither my way of updating portage through git nor the "actual" way (currently) involves signature verification. | 15:53 |
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| sicelo | what would cause my N900 to download at max 50KB/s when the network allows download speed of up to 20Mbps. | 17:45 |
| Wizzup | shitty wireless? | 17:45 |
| KotCzarny | congested ether? | 17:45 |
| KotCzarny | lots of retransmision? | 17:45 |
| KotCzarny | isp f*cking you over the oversold bandwidth? | 17:45 |
| Wizzup | have you ever seen the n900 do 20Mbps over wifi? | 17:46 |
| KotCzarny | try running ping -s8 8.8.8.8 in background to keep gsm active | 17:46 |
| Wizzup | I don't think I've ever seen it do more than maybe 200KB/s on wifi, even in my lan. | 17:46 |
| sicelo | i think problem is on N900. i don't need it to do 20Mbps, but surely 50KB/s is plain unfair :) | 17:46 |
| sicelo | that sucks. | 17:46 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo: wifi or gsm? | 17:47 |
| sicelo | wifi | 17:47 |
| KotCzarny | should go at least 10-20x faster then | 17:47 |
| KotCzarny | change wifi channel? | 17:47 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: I repeat my question | 17:47 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup: which one? | 17:48 |
| Wizzup | 16:46 < Wizzup> have you ever seen the n900 do 20Mbps over wifi? | 17:48 |
| KotCzarny | i saw 500-600kB at least | 17:48 |
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| KotCzarny | and i suspect it might go higher with overclocked cpu | 17:49 |
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| sicelo | i am even suspecting that gsm might be faster than wifi then .. i should buy a data package & do a speed test | 18:03 |
| KotCzarny | try changing channel on ap first | 18:03 |
| sicelo | not my ap unfortunately | 18:04 |
| KotCzarny | then you might be simply too far/too noisy | 18:05 |
| sicelo | hehe, i'm sitting in front of it | 18:06 |
| sicelo | guess i should just concede N900 has bad wifi | 18:06 |
| KotCzarny | still, shouldnt be THAT slow | 18:07 |
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| sicelo | dumb me | 18:22 |
| sicelo | a quick google pointed to a response i gave someone complaining of same issue on tmo a while ago :p | 18:22 |
| sicelo | power savings | 18:23 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 18:23 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder if world without google would be dumber or smarter | 18:23 |
| sicelo | i put it on intermediate (it was on maximum bfore) and got 242kBps | 18:24 |
| sicelo | i'm annoyed that *I* gave the answer haha, and now i couldn't help myself | 18:24 |
| sicelo | 500KB/s with no power savings. | 18:27 |
| KotCzarny | but without ps it will eat battery really quick | 18:28 |
| KotCzarny | i usually leave it at intermediate | 18:28 |
| sicelo | yes | 18:28 |
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| Wizzup | ah, I always have it on maximum power saving. | 18:32 |
| KotCzarny | max ps sucks for ssh | 18:32 |
| Wizzup | yes | 18:32 |
| Wizzup | any clue how this is changed? | 18:32 |
| Wizzup | wonder if I can add this to libicd-network-wpasupplicant | 18:32 |
| Wizzup | probably some nonstandard kernel iface? | 18:33 |
| KotCzarny | this meaning ps? | 18:33 |
| Wizzup | yep | 18:33 |
| KotCzarny | isnt it driver's thing? | 18:33 |
| sicelo | maybe iwconfig .. power saving | 18:34 |
| KotCzarny | powersaving is a flag exposed by nl80211 | 18:35 |
| Wizzup | ok | 18:36 |
| KotCzarny | although fremantle might've had additional code, with nl80211 you usually only turn it on and off | 18:37 |
| sicelo | iwconfig (now deprecated?) has levels of power saving ... in one of my scripts i have 'iwconfig wlan0 power saving 1' | 18:39 |
| KotCzarny | didn't know that | 18:39 |
| sicelo | now i wonder how to toggle fremantle's power savings automatically, instead of clicking your way into the control panel | 18:43 |
| KotCzarny | iwconfig? ;) | 18:43 |
| sicelo | :) | 18:44 |
| sicelo | heh, looks like it might just be toggling one power saving state anyway, but locking at different bit rates. intermediate seems locked at 6Mb/s, at least as far as iwconfig can see | 18:49 |
| Wizzup | hm | 18:49 |
| KotCzarny | would be funny | 18:49 |
| sicelo | anyway, maybe i'm wrong here. will test properly when i'm home & settled. | 18:50 |
| sicelo | ok. no, that hypothesis is wrong | 18:54 |
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