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| Wikiwide | Not sure exactly what was the change, maybe switch fromactivesync mail to imap mail, but uptime is 2 days again (well, almost: 1 day 23 hours 21 minutes; but it's possible it will stay switched on for 40 more minutes). | 00:07 |
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| Wikiwide | Some time ago, uptime used to be around 1 day. | 00:20 |
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| Vajb | hoho. Got in to whatsapp. Used kerio's solution. Virtualbox+android 6.0 image. | 08:37 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Vajb I have seen your comment about whatsapp. Could you please share details? | 11:20 |
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| jkepler | Hi folks! | 11:25 |
| paijo | hello | 11:27 |
| jkepler | I just got an email from Microsoft that my older version of Skype, Skype for Windows 7.17-7.30, will no longer work as of September 4th. We don't have any Windows machines in our house (I run exclusively Debian, and my wife uses Mac OS (which I tolerate as its based on BSD)). | 11:27 |
| jkepler | Is the Skype interface in my N900 what Microsoft is referring to? | 11:27 |
| jkepler | If so, is there a way to upgrade the Skype services in Maemo so that they'll keep working with Skype? (Or is this my chance to try and nudge my parents and friends toward FOSS video call software?) | 11:29 |
| paijo | Hmm I dont know sorry | 11:30 |
| paijo | I'm waiting someone ported line chat to maemo | 11:31 |
| paijo | Lol | 11:31 |
| Wizzup | jkepler: if they indeed deprecate the n900 version, then this is your chance to switch to FOSS video call sw | 11:33 |
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| Vajb | Enrico_Menotti: i downloaded android-x86_64-6.0-r3.iso and ran it on virtualbox. Then i installed whatsapp on tablet and followed on app instructions to use it without mobile. | 11:54 |
| Vajb | now if only i could get remote ssh from n900 to my virtualbox running android :D | 11:55 |
| Vajb | Enrico_Menotti: and default browser crashed when i tried to download whatsapp.apk and i had to install firefox also. | 11:58 |
| paijo | What apps do you use to remote the android | 12:00 |
| paijo | ? | 12:00 |
| *** sdf11 has joined #maemo | 12:03 | |
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| sdf11 | hello | 12:03 |
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| paijo | Hello | 12:08 |
| sdf11 | After having changed over to Linux a year ago I can't keep myself from noticing that for one or another reason, working on Windows has been (and is) far more productive. For instance, the file explorer I use now is Nemo, which has the best features of both Thunar and Nautilus. My main issue with Nemo right now is when I'm looking for a file, I star | 12:10 |
| sdf11 | t to type the name to find it but if I misstype I have to backspacke out the whole search query and it never goes away, this is only an issue in Nemo and I haven't found any way to turn it off. Other file explorers have stupid issues like Nautilus will freeze my whole PC everytime I right-click and no easy way to open terminal in current directory | 12:10 |
| sdf11 | & extract multiple ZIP files, etc. As far as the Desktop goes, I'm not sure but I feel something is terribly off, right now I'm using Xubuntu (XFCE) which so far has been the only somewhat stable window manager. For compositor I use none, I tried Compton but even Compton doesn't perform well with 144hz. I have a display and a TV connected, everytim | 12:10 |
| sdf11 | e I wanna switch audio output between them I have to switch it manually for every running application. TL;DR: How do I make my Xubuntu more productive and/or genuinely FEEL more like Windows / work better? | 12:10 |
| paijo | Try to move to KDE | 12:12 |
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| sdf11 | KDE Neon? | 12:12 |
| paijo | I prefer kde than xfce | 12:12 |
| sdf11 | I've tried KDE, it does NOT work well unless I reinstall to a different distro like KDE Neon | 12:12 |
| paijo | Try kubuntu | 12:12 |
| paijo | Bundled with kde | 12:13 |
| sdf11 | I have, it's missing a lot of theming options and options in general | 12:14 |
| sdf11 | but I installed it from Ubuntu | 12:14 |
| sdf11 | (but I did add the PPA) | 12:14 |
| paijo | Hmm probably your instalation is corrupt | 12:14 |
| sdf11 | no | 12:14 |
| sdf11 | wait | 12:14 |
| sdf11 | I remember | 12:14 |
| sdf11 | my main issue with KDE is | 12:14 |
| Vajb | or try devuan with mate | 12:14 |
| paijo | Try fresh install with kubuntu | 12:14 |
| sdf11 | that KWIN will ONLY run 100Hz | 12:14 |
| Vajb | or anything with mate | 12:15 |
| sdf11 | I have still not found a way to get kwin to run at 144hz/unlimited | 12:15 |
| paijo | Hmm i don't know that kwin | 12:15 |
| sdf11 | even manually setting the limit to any number doesn't matter, it caps at 100 | 12:15 |
| sdf11 | so frustrating | 12:15 |
| sdf11 | I've tried Mate, I've been trying pretty much all of it X'D | 12:15 |
| sdf11 | I don't remember the issue with Mate but definitively had issues with them all, especially compositor issues | 12:16 |
| sdf11 | :/ | 12:16 |
| sdf11 | even Compton doesn't work well with 144hz | 12:16 |
| paijo | Try from fresh instalation if you want to enjoy | 12:16 |
| sdf11 | I hate reinstalling ;( | 12:16 |
| paijo | Or you can try instalation to vm | 12:17 |
| sdf11 | yeah well | 12:17 |
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| paijo | How | 12:17 |
| sdf11 | I think 1 of the issues is that LTS is so fucking old, should switch to a rolling release as I bet the more "bleeding edge" is more stable than the LTS crap (for desktop) | 12:17 |
| paijo | Which ubuntu version do you use | 12:18 |
| sdf11 | Xubuntu | 12:18 |
| sdf11 | 16.04 | 12:18 |
| sdf11 | I tried upgrading to 16.10 -> 17.04 but it keeps telling me that there's no available upgrade or whatever, and I checked my settings manually that the upgrade path is set to NORMAL and everything :/ | 12:19 |
| paijo | Techically there a lot of problem when you install to the last version of desktop environment when your distro from last year version | 12:19 |
| sdf11 | exactly | 12:19 |
| paijo | Try to upgrade to 17.xx | 12:20 |
| sdf11 | yeah | 12:20 |
| sdf11 | that's what imma gonna do | 12:20 |
| sdf11 | if it will let me | 12:20 |
| paijo | Dist-upgrade? | 12:20 |
| sdf11 | okay so I changed from LTS to "Any" | 12:20 |
| sdf11 | and will try now | 12:20 |
| sdf11 | in a sec | 12:20 |
| paijo | Nice | 12:21 |
| sdf11 | dist-upgrade: command not found | 12:21 |
| sdf11 | hmm | 12:21 |
| paijo | Sudo? | 12:21 |
| sdf11 | nana | 12:21 |
| sdf11 | ill figure it out | 12:22 |
| sdf11 | btw | 12:22 |
| sdf11 | what's a good file manager? | 12:22 |
| paijo | I found an article on omgubuntu | 12:22 |
| paijo | On how to upgrade to 17 | 12:23 |
| sdf11 | Nautilus = crap (freezes system on right-click for 1 second at a time), Thunar = crap, Nemo = crap (bogous search + VERY laggy to use e.g. SFTP) | 12:23 |
| paijo | I love dolphin | 12:23 |
| sdf11 | I suppose that's the only option left | 12:23 |
| sdf11 | i've tried all 10 of them or whatever | 12:23 |
| sdf11 | some I really really like | 12:24 |
| sdf11 | but I can't get used to the Mac esque | 12:24 |
| sdf11 | file manager with the trees and shit | 12:24 |
| paijo | I don't know that | 12:25 |
| paijo | Mostly using terminal | 12:25 |
| paijo | Hehe | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | alright im upgrading to 16.10 then 17.04, works this time, didn't on Ubuntu (before i reinstalled haha) | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | yeah I love | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | Ranger | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | but FUCK me if I'm gonna learn VIM controls | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | I tried ;( | 12:25 |
| paijo | Hahaha | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | VimFX for Firefox addon too is so fuuuucking sweet but I am too dumb | 12:25 |
| paijo | Good luck | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | or well the issue was | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | I have European keyboard layout | 12:25 |
| sdf11 | ... | 12:26 |
| sdf11 | VIM is US only | 12:26 |
| Wizzup | ??? | 12:26 |
| sdf11 | VIM keys are based on U.S. keyboard layout | 12:26 |
| sdf11 | my keyboard is not a U.S. keyboard :/ so the layout is messed up for me | 12:26 |
| * Wizzup looks at hjkl | 12:26 | |
| Wizzup | is the same for uk,nl,us keyboards | 12:27 |
| Wizzup | and probably for many more | 12:27 |
| sdf11 | like ; : keys | 12:27 |
| sdf11 | etc | 12:27 |
| Wizzup | not the mention the extreme ease it is to remapping keys | 12:27 |
| Wizzup | what | 12:27 |
| sdf11 | are super different | 12:27 |
| sdf11 | cmon | 12:27 |
| Wizzup | how does vim even use ; | 12:27 |
| Wizzup | that makes no sense | 12:27 |
| sdf11 | I have to do shift period to get : | 12:27 |
| Wizzup | what does that have to do with vim? | 12:27 |
| sdf11 | everything | 12:27 |
| sdf11 | ;( | 12:27 |
| Wizzup | lol | 12:27 |
| Wizzup | I've used vim for more than 10 years and I am european, and never had an issue with it | 12:28 |
| sdf11 | maan u tellin me rn im full of excuses | 12:28 |
| Wizzup | Regardless of the keyboard layout | 12:28 |
| Wizzup | Yes, you are | 12:28 |
| sdf11 | n im just lying to myself to procrastinate | 12:28 |
| Wizzup | Yes | 12:28 |
| sdf11 | :/ | 12:28 |
| sdf11 | what country you from ? | 12:28 |
| sdf11 | maan I know .. I need to work on myself, forreal | 12:28 |
| Wizzup | I've typen on al major european keyboard layouts, and it's all fine for vim | 12:28 |
| xy2_ | ggdG yourself | 12:28 |
| Wizzup | s/typen/typed | 12:28 |
| sdf11 | maan :( you know how hard I get when I see people using i3, ranger and VIM?! | 12:29 |
| Wizzup | I don't think I want to know... | 12:29 |
| sdf11 | they spend 30 seconds doing 30 mins of work | 12:29 |
| sdf11 | ;( | 12:29 |
| sdf11 | & look at me, fucking peasant with his mouse, barely knows regex | 12:30 |
| sdf11 | for christs sake, I'm using a fucking WEB CLIENT for IRC | 12:31 |
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| sdf11 | http://www.openvim.com/ | 12:34 |
| sdf11 | okay now there's no more excuses lol | 12:34 |
| sdf11 | quick question, IOMMU pci-e passthrough, can I run my Linux on the iGPU and Windows on GTX 980Ti (via Passthrough) (and what software/how do i even do this) or should I buy a secondary GPU (well I might have to anyway since my monitor is 144hz, but dunno if I need that for anything but games but remains to be seen), I have some 6970's laying around | 12:38 |
| sdf11 | but not enough power molex or whatever connectos on my psu | 12:38 |
| freemangordon | Pali: have a couple of minutes? while trying to build mce on upstream, I end up with a dependency to hald-addon-bme. ANd there is no more hal. I wonder what is the best way to deal with that. u-power? | 12:42 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: the same question ^^^ | 12:42 |
| Pali | yes, I'm there | 12:43 |
| freemangordon | godd, see the question ^^^ | 12:43 |
| freemangordon | *good | 12:43 |
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| Pali | if you need replacement for hal in current debian/ubuntu, then yes upower is probably the best replacement for battery | 12:44 |
| freemangordon | mce in mer has battery-upower codule | 12:44 |
| freemangordon | *module | 12:44 |
| freemangordon | but is has battery-bme module as well :) | 12:44 |
| Pali | ideally drop whole bme stuff | 12:45 |
| freemangordon | mhm | 12:45 |
| Pali | we already moved n900 drivers into kernel | 12:45 |
| Pali | which uses standard power supply interface | 12:45 |
| freemangordon | yes, I know :) | 12:45 |
| freemangordon | oh, mer mce has bme-dbus-names.h in it | 12:45 |
| Pali | so upower should be able to handle it | 12:45 |
| freemangordon | ok, yet another thing to rewrite :( | 12:46 |
| Pali | but it is probably hard to simulate old bme dbus interface (e.g. signals) | 12:46 |
| freemangordon | why do you think that? I see nothing special here https://github.com/community-ssu/hald-addon-bme/blob/master/dbus-names.h | 12:47 |
| Pali | yes | 12:48 |
| freemangordon | unless I am missing something | 12:48 |
| Pali | they are just dbus signals + some method for request | 12:48 |
| Pali | upower has different dbus interfac | 12:48 |
| Pali | e | 12:48 |
| freemangordon | sure, but iiuc mce translates them to mce dbus iface | 12:48 |
| freemangordon | ah, you man there are more consumers to bme dbus? | 12:49 |
| Pali | yes | 12:49 |
| freemangordon | so I should write a daemon that does bme<->upower translation? | 12:50 |
| Pali | e.g. battery widgets, etc... | 12:50 |
| freemangordon | shit | 12:50 |
| Pali | that is the qustion | 12:50 |
| Pali | I think that battery widget uses HAL | 12:50 |
| Pali | in original maemo system, bme daemon provides that dbus interface | 12:50 |
| freemangordon | yes | 12:50 |
| freemangordon | battery-widget uses hal | 12:51 |
| Pali | in bme replacement, that dbus interface was moved into hald-addon-bme | 12:51 |
| freemangordon | so it should be rewritten as well, or we can use the one from gnome | 12:51 |
| Pali | so that hal plugin provides both: HAL interface and also bme dbus interface | 12:51 |
| freemangordon | it was not movet, it was already there | 12:51 |
| freemangordon | *moved | 12:51 |
| freemangordon | dbus iface that is | 12:52 |
| Pali | so if we need compatibility, we need to provide both HAL interface and also bme dbus interface | 12:52 |
| freemangordon | we can't provide hal | 12:52 |
| Pali | if no, then all things needs to be rewritten | 12:53 |
| Pali | and question is if we really need bme dbus interface? | 12:53 |
| * Wizzup wonders that too | 12:53 | |
| freemangordon | I guess no, but I don;t really know upower | 12:53 |
| freemangordon | Pali: there is no hal in modern distros, you know :) | 12:54 |
| Pali | I know | 12:54 |
| freemangordon | maybe we can move to udev, but does it qorth the effort | 12:54 |
| freemangordon | *worth | 12:54 |
| * freemangordon goes for more coffee | 12:54 | |
| Wizzup | How much effort would it be, any idea? | 12:54 |
| Pali | udev is for devices in /dev/ and for /sys/... events | 12:55 |
| Pali | uopwer is for battery/charge info | 12:55 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: which one? moving mce from bme to upower shouldn't be that hard, as there is already module-upower in mer's mce | 12:56 |
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| TheKit | does Mer mce uses upower by default? | 12:57 |
| TheKit | *use | 12:57 |
| freemangordon | but, moving battery applet and who-knows-what-else is hard to be assessed | 12:57 |
| freemangordon | TheKit: NFC | 12:57 |
| Wizzup | battery applet sounds like it should not be too complicated | 12:57 |
| freemangordon | TheKit: but, I guess it uses whichever is available, as bot bme and upower modules are compiled | 12:58 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: :nod: | 12:58 |
| Mike11 | hello all :) has anybody encountered an issue where n900 asks for the WEP passphrase when trying to connect to WPA network? because of this I can't connect to some WPA networks | 12:59 |
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| Mike11 | I remember having this issue the first time I had my n900, I tried flashing the device but no luck | 13:01 |
| freemangordon | so any volunteer on that one? :) | 13:01 |
| Wizzup | right now I'm setting up a vm for jenkins and auto builds | 13:01 |
| Wizzup | will try to see how far I can get tomorrow with parazyd | 13:01 |
| freemangordon | ok, so you're out of the equation | 13:01 |
| freemangordon | TheKit: ??? | 13:02 |
| freemangordon | hmm, wait, mce should be me | 13:02 |
| freemangordon | unfortunately | 13:02 |
| freemangordon | Pali: WTF is statefs? | 13:04 |
| Pali | where you have it? | 13:05 |
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| freemangordon | https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/mce/blob/master/modules/battery-statefs.c | 13:05 |
| Pali | no idea | 13:06 |
| Pali | I have not hear about it | 13:06 |
| TheKit | freemangordon, it's FUSE fs used in Mer | 13:06 |
| freemangordon | ah, thanks | 13:06 |
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| Wizzup | freemangordon: btw, you're working with parazyd to get an image for a33 tablets with working mali right? | 13:08 |
| Wizzup | I know -you- have it working already | 13:08 |
| parazyd | i can try the stuff when i'm back in ams | 13:08 |
| parazyd | the tablet is there | 13:08 |
| freemangordon | ok, so the plan is - copy bme dbus-names.h from hald-addon-bme to mce, and copy mer battery-upower from mer's mce to fremantle's | 13:08 |
| Wizzup | I have a tablet here | 13:08 |
| TheKit | https://pastebin.com/3j63r6tg - statefs | 13:08 |
| freemangordon | Pali: Wizzup: ^^^ is that sound ok? | 13:08 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: ah, I just tried allwinner devuan image, I guess I(we) will have to do it once the repos ar up and full of packages so we will be able to install fremantle on allwinner | 13:10 |
| Wizzup | ack | 13:10 |
| freemangordon | without compiling on the device itself as I did back then | 13:10 |
| Wizzup | I have pretty powerful arm hw nowaways | 13:10 |
| freemangordon | anyway, what about my question ^^^? | 13:10 |
| freemangordon | re mce and bme | 13:11 |
| Pali | ok | 13:11 |
| freemangordon | I hope they didn't change mce's internals too much | 13:11 |
| Wikiwide | Any idea as to why my N900 doesn't recognise DCIM as Camera folder, and instead points to .camera in both Images and File Manager? Camera saves to DCIM, though. | 13:17 |
| freemangordon | Wikiwide: you're missing a file, gimme a minute | 13:17 |
| freemangordon | Wikiwide: user-dirs.dirs in ~/.config folder | 13:17 |
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| Wikiwide | Missing, true. | 13:19 |
| freemangordon | Wikiwide: https://pastebin.com/PKuG1GS0 | 13:19 |
| freemangordon | this is what you should have there | 13:19 |
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| Jeff13 | UMM | 13:19 |
| freemangordon | but I don;t remember if you have to reboot or some xdg-whatever command should be executed | 13:19 |
| Jeff13 | I just upgraded from Ubuntu 16.04 straight to 17.04 without doing 16.04 -> 16.10 -> 17.04 | 13:19 |
| Jeff13 | what the fuck ?? how is that even possible? | 13:20 |
| Wizzup | That is not weird at all... | 13:20 |
| freemangordon | Jeff13: .10 are dev releases | 13:20 |
| freemangordon | .04 are LTS | 13:20 |
| Wizzup | 17 is not lts | 13:20 |
| Wizzup | 16.04 and 18.04 are | 13:20 |
| freemangordon | right | 13:20 |
| Jeff13 | yaeh but every guide ever says you gotta 16.04 -> 16.10 -> 17.04 | 13:20 |
| Jeff13 | 16.04 and 18.04 is lts | 13:20 |
| Jeff13 | i get that :P | 13:20 |
| Wizzup | Jeff13: I have not seen such a 'every guide ever' | 13:20 |
| Wizzup | I often go from 12.04 to 14.04 to 16.04 | 13:20 |
| Jeff13 | 17.04 is not LTS | 13:21 |
| Wizzup | so? | 13:21 |
| freemangordon | yup, I did 12.04->14.04 on my desktop | 13:21 |
| Wizzup | a LTS is just a normal distro version | 13:21 |
| Wizzup | supported for a longer time | 13:21 |
| Jeff13 | mhm | 13:21 |
| Jeff13 | okay fine | 13:21 |
| Jeff13 | :p | 13:21 |
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| Jeff13 | omgubuntu can go fuck themselves | 13:21 |
| freemangordon | Jeff13: as long as it boots ... :D | 13:21 |
| Jeff13 | asking me to restart twice to upgrade twice | 13:21 |
| Jeff13 | yeah it booted but | 13:22 |
| Jeff13 | networking didn't work :) | 13:22 |
| Jeff13 | had to touch /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/globally managed devices blah blah | 13:22 |
| freemangordon | I guess it works now you're here :) | 13:22 |
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| Jeff13 | yeah :( | 13:22 |
| Jeff13 | sometimes I miss Windows | 13:22 |
| Jeff13 | lol | 13:22 |
| NotKit | is it impossible to use Mer version? | 13:23 |
| freemangordon | no, you don;t, you just think you miss it | 13:23 |
| Jeff13 | WELL | 13:23 |
| freemangordon | NotKit: I guess too much was changed there | 13:23 |
| Jeff13 | >_< | 13:23 |
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| *** paijo has joined #maemo | 13:23 | |
| Jeff13 | well well :/ | 13:23 |
| Jeff13 | I wish more people used Linux | 13:23 |
| Jeff13 | for desktop** | 13:23 |
| freemangordon | and I don;t wanna go through all the commits for the last 6-7 years to see what exactly has changed | 13:23 |
| Jeff13 | it's no secret that using Linux for desktop usage SUCKS BIG DICK | 13:23 |
| Wikiwide | What about laptop usage? | 13:24 |
| Wikiwide | Disclaimer: I regularly use CentOS on overpowered desktop. | 13:24 |
| freemangordon | NotKit: maybe, once we have all the stuff in place we can start thinking about using stuff from mer | 13:24 |
| freemangordon | Wikiwide: I am using ubuntu 14.04 on my corporate laptop | 13:25 |
| Jeff13 | aww maan how do I deal with this crap?? install some PPA's or something ?? The following packages will be REMOVED: | 13:25 |
| Jeff13 | xorg xserver-xorg-core-hwe-16.04 xserver-xorg-hwe-16.04 | 13:25 |
| Jeff13 | xserver-xorg-input-evdev-hwe-16.04 xubuntu-core xubuntu-desktop | 13:25 |
| Jeff13 | The following NEW packages will be installed: | 13:25 |
| Jeff13 | xserver-xorg-core | 13:25 |
| paijo | Crunchbang user here? Lol | 13:25 |
| Wizzup | I use gentoo on all my personal stuff, alpine on servers and containers, ubuntu for one of my jobs, gentoo for the other | 13:26 |
| Jeff13 | obviously I won't let that shit run through but yeah how do I fix it so xorg isn't held back | 13:26 |
| Wikiwide | I am not the admin, just one of many people using it. Because Windows networking is very inferior when compared against Linux (ssh, sftp, X forwarding...) | 13:26 |
| freemangordon | Jeff13: I guess you should read about ubuntu HWE | 13:26 |
| Jeff13 | or not ?? | 13:27 |
| freemangordon | up to you, ofc | 13:27 |
| Jeff13 | pause.. not | 13:27 |
| Jeff13 | xD | 13:27 |
| Jeff13 | hmm | 13:27 |
| Wikiwide | freemangordon : thanks a lot! Worked immediately, no need to write any command lines upon creating the file. | 13:28 |
| freemangordon | :) | 13:28 |
| Jeff13 | Linux Sucks | 13:29 |
| Jeff13 | cause Bryan Lunduke says so | 13:29 |
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| Wikiwide | I know it is possible to write a Note for a contact in address book. Now, with a suitable telepathy plugin, would it be possible to auto-create contact's directories (optionally unwatched by tracker and .hidden from file manager), where documents received from contact (or sent to the contact) would be put, and then request (from address book) file manager to open the .hidden directory, or Photos to show images from .hidden directory? | 13:32 |
| Wikiwide | with suitable rtcom* plugin, I guess; it has nothing to do with telepathy. | 13:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 13:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe a glance at http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/contact2 and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/contact gives you ideas. Hint: it seems you can add arbitrary properties to a contact | 13:41 |
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| Wikiwide | And then plugin for photos, to be able to click not only "Camera", "Custom", "All", but also "Contacts" (and select some or all Contacts from the list) | 13:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, lacking context | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "gallery", not "photos"? | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or is that about telepathy | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could probably add a vcard attribute like "datadir" to contacts in contact db | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when somebody sends DCC files, a telepathy/purple/whatever plugin could write those to the path found in contacts db in attribute "datadir" | 13:47 |
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| Jeff13 | how do I change mouse speed? | 13:47 |
| Jeff13 | I already did this: http://www.webupd8.org/2016/08/how-to-completely-disable-mouse.html | 13:48 |
| Jeff13 | but now after I updated Xorg my mouse speed is halved and I DO not want mouse acceleration | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not entirely sure but I *think* there are plugins to "Contacts" app to handle such stuff in a special way, so you could open filemanager when clicking on the field "datadir" | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jeff13: interesting question. Hildon desktop never been made for mouse, and you don't want any acceleration etc with touch pointer | 13:50 |
| Jeff13 | I can't stand acceleration | 13:50 |
| Jeff13 | I just want to double my mouse pointer speed | 13:50 |
| Jeff13 | statically | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might want to wait until some user familiar with generic gnome desktop drops by. They might have more clue about that stuff than me | 13:51 |
| Pali | xinput | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi Pali! :-)) | 13:52 |
| Pali | that tool can be used to set any X property for input device | 13:52 |
| Pali | hi! :-) | 13:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Jeff13: listen to Pali, you won't find a more knowledgeable person to help you | 13:53 |
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| Jeff13 | hey | 13:54 |
| Jeff13 | had to close firefox bcoz bug when u switch on compositors lol | 13:54 |
| Jeff13 | anyhow, resend ur last message | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | 13:55 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Hello everybody. I'd like to check the versions of the various os layers which are currently installed on my N900 (Maemo). From the file system down to kernel and bootloader steps. For the file system, I can simply go to settings -> about product. All the rest? | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for kernel: `uname -a`. For bootloader there's no command to find out the version afaik | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for filesystems (unless they are monolithic): `modinfo vfat` etc | 14:07 |
| Jeff13 | lol I figured out how to fix the mouse | 14:07 |
| Jeff13 | the issue is that it reads xserver-xorg-input-libinput instead of some other shits | 14:07 |
| Jeff13 | so just typing a bunch of random ass commands to set random properties and boom it goes fast as fuck, then i redisable the acceleration and it works now magically | 14:08 |
| Jeff13 | lmao | 14:08 |
| Jeff13 | strange how things work ... | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for ubifs maybe somthing like `ubiattach --version` | 14:08 |
| Jeff13 | now magically a lot of issues I had are fixed too in 17.04 :) and compton works beautifully now :) | 14:09 |
| Jeff13 | fuck yeah | 14:09 |
| Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 Ehm I meant system image, not file system, sorry. I mean the actual os components, over the kernel. I get it from settings -> about product, right? | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 14:13 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Ok. Kernel: 2.6.28-omap1. OS: 20.2010.36-2. I got these by flashing an image downloaded form archive.org, where I found a mirror of Nokia repos. | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ugh | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lf | 14:14 |
| infobot | [#maemo lazyflashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach | 14:14 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I never cared about getting the latest available upgrades/updates. | 14:14 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Now I'm thinking about that. | 14:14 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Do I need to flash again or is there another way? And before that, what are the latest versions and where do you suggest to get them from? | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait what? you found a mirror of nokia repos at archive.org? | 14:15 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Yes. | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lazyflashing is getting the latest versions for you | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtolls | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 14:16 |
| infobot | i heard jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | may help | 14:16 |
| Enrico_Menotti | So is it necessary to reflash? No other way? | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | other way to do what? | 14:17 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Getting the latest versions of kernel and os. | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically no | 14:17 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ah. I thought the seamless software update didn't require flashing, so I could get the cssu in some other way. | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should do a decent backup (use BM *and* hildon backup app), then reflash COMBINED | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 14:18 |
| infobot | methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, SSU gets you the updates, but not when your current system is of totally unclaer state | 14:19 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Why unclear? | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's how I understood the info you gave | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly >>I got these by flashing an image downloaded form archive.org, where I found a mirror of Nokia repos.<< That's not recommended, the canonical way is to use lazyflashing | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then proceed to ~jrtool and (as recommended there) fix repos and go CSSU | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually forget about ~jrtools, the instructions are already in ~lazyflashing | 14:22 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I reported the kernel and os versions, right? That should be clear. About archive.org: please look at http://wiki.maemo.org/Devuan_on_N900, footnote 10 (very bottom of the page). That leads to the flasher, but the system images are around there. If you feel this repository is not reliable, and propose a different one for the flasher, you are welcome in adding that info to the wiki page. | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so? I told you the canonical way. I'm not really interested in learning about footnotes | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see topic | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lf | 14:30 |
| infobot | i guess #maemo lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no need for a repository proposal, it's all already there | 14:31 |
| APic | ☺ | 14:32 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Ok. When I wrote the wiki for Devuan, I tried to put there a comprehensive info about where to find the various pieces needed in order to reproduce the various steps. I also reported that info about where one may find a working flasher. I'm just proposing to you to have a look at the repository I found on archive.org, and if you think it's not suitable to add a better info on the wiki page. | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I propose you read and understand http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~tabletsdev | 14:39 |
| infobot | somebody said tabletsdev was http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ http://wiki.maemo.org/Tabletsdev , http://tabletsdev.maemo.org (all defunct, thanks Nokia) or the nice site http://www.fladnag.net/downloads/telephone/n900/tools/, or http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/93.81.63.203/repositories/skeiron.org/skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads, or http://maemo.muarf.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/ | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~combined | 14:39 |
| infobot | combined is, like, the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, or http://galif.eu/nokia/, or http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/tmp/bin/n900/ | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~emmc | 14:39 |
| infobot | emmc is, like, is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin or see ~emmc2 | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~flasher | 14:40 |
| infobot | refer ~flashing; http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz. HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz; list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ | 14:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if those are outdated and you found yet another repo in archive.org, fine. We can update those factoids and the websites that refer to the factoid content (repos). But for lazyflashing all that is irrelevant | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: I don't want to share instructions on how to get the latest fiasco images the way lazyflashing does. Read the shellscript and you may (or may not) understand why | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the last link in ~combined still works | 14:51 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Yes, ok. So, recap. There is this repo: http://web.archive.org/web/20131117073524/http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/nokia_N900/. Contains images up to PR1.3. Links to another page with development environment downloads, where I find the flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2. | 14:51 |
| Enrico_Menotti | These repos seem not that bad, so maybe it is worth to record this info. | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pro hint: latest is 1.3.1 | 14:52 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Yes, I know. By the way: does that come from Nokia or is that the code for the CSSU? | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nokia | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | backported it from CSSU | 14:53 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ah, so the path was PR1.3 -> CSSU -> PR1.3.1? CSSU being the most updated one? | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU introduced a security patch to certman/certs that got adopted by Nokia and published as PR1.3.1 by Nokia | 14:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | thus it's irrelevant for installing CSSU if you got PR1.3 or PR.1.3.1 on your device. Anyway CSSU is the source of latest patches | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU however doesn't ship fiasco images | 14:57 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Right. So since I have PR1.3, and I give for granted it is properly installed, I don't need to flash. I may go for CSSU via SSU. Right? | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no fiasco image that has all the updates from CSSU already integrated. The only way to get an up-to-date system is to start with PR1.3(.1) and then install CSSU and run the SSU updates | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 14:59 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Perfect. So I will go for ~cssu | 15:00 |
| Enrico_Menotti | ~cssu | 15:00 |
| infobot | methinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) | 15:00 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Thanks for the useful discussion and related info. Now F1 qualifications. :) Forza Ferrari! | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | enjoy! :-) | 15:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: secret stuff: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/dirsnapshot2.png | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do NOT post ascii URLs anywhere!!! | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or all this will vanish in no time | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know, patent trolls and their spiders :-/ | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as my logs show suspicious access, that stuff gets locked and this becomes unavailable | 15:16 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 Is that secret stuff in your local system? I see the combined has more than one update ahead of mine (20.2010.36-2), up to 21.2011.38-1 (is that PR1.3.1?). | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's Pr1.3.1, yes | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, "local" | 16:10 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Sorry, I don't get your advice about URLs. You mean the URL could be ruined by automatic "spam" systems, or that those may read the URL and ruin the target content? And how to post a non-ascii URL? Should I put an image file in the wiki? | 16:10 |
| Enrico_Menotti | By "local" I mean "not accessible via public Internet". | 16:11 |
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| paijo | Is there any fb chat alternative on maemo | 16:21 |
| paijo | ? | 16:21 |
| APic | irssi | 16:23 |
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| paijo | Isn't that for irc? | 16:23 |
| APic | Yes? | 16:23 |
| APic | The great Alternative for evil Facebook-Chat | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: you don't put that stuff in the wiki | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I meant that I will remove that stuff when you do | 17:20 |
| NotKit | maybe mirror it to Mega, for example? | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's already a truckload of mirrors | 17:21 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | I was trying to recall to myself some things I had found a few months ago about the boot process of the N900. By wandering around over the Internet, and from various places (also mailing lists), I re-constructed the thing: 1. OMAP bootrom; 2. Nokia X-Loader (signed); 3. NOLO; 4. kernel etc. Now the FIASCO image contains, besides kernel and rootfs, three other images: xloader, secondary, and 2nd. The first is the | 17:23 |
| Enrico_Menotti | X-Loader. From the flasher-3.5 help, I think the secondary is NOLO (is this correct?). But what about 2nd? The help says "NOLO cold flasher image". Is this only used when cold flashing? | 17:23 |
| Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 Ok, I won't put URLs in the wiki. So where I put them? | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | nowhere | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you put *my* URLs nowhere | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | you can clone the stuff, but dont go chatting about the source link | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how hard is it to understand that patent trolls use google | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I think everybody knows how google works, Buzzword spider | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((Is this only used when cold flashing?)) yes | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | coldflashing means: you need to flash the bootloader (thus 'cold' since the system isn't "warm" from booting yet). T od that you need... the bootloader's flashing algo, which flasher loads to RAM like a rescueOS - this RAM loaded interim bootcode is 2nd | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | To do* | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once coldflashing restored xloader+NOLO (they actually are one chunk in one partition), the normal falshing process can use the working NOLO in flash storage to flash the rest of the image | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for more accurate and specific details, ask Pali | 17:34 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ok, so on standard boot we have bootrom -> X-Loader -> Secondary -> kernel, right? And on cold flash, bootrom -> 2nd uploaded to RAM -> X-Loader + NOLO flashing? Pali, may you confirm, please? | 17:35 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 You talk about "your" URLs. Sorry, I'm a bit stupid, but I don't understand. May I put the archive URL on the wiki, or not? | 17:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | archive is not "my" maemo.cloud-7.de stuff | 17:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't put URLs containing the string "fiasco&co" anywhere | 17:38 |
| Pali | Enrico_Menotti: basically yes, for cold flahs it is bootrom -> uploaded 2nd+nolo to ram --> normal flash xloader+nolo | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err fiasco+co | 17:39 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Pali Where nolo = secondary, right? | 17:40 |
| Pali | yes | 17:40 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Pali One last thing: on normal flash, 2nd is not used, but xloader+nolo are anyway flashed. Right? | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and basically NOLO is a u-boot frankenstein | 17:41 |
| Pali | 2nd is only for cold flash | 17:41 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Yes, ok. But xloader+nolo are flashed also on normal flash? | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, on normal flashing xloader+NOLO are not touched at all | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 17:42 |
| Pali | if you supply full fiasco image, then also xloader and nolo are flashed | 17:42 |
| Pali | as they are part of fiasco image | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if they were, you'd need coldflash to recover from failed normal flashing that ruined them way more often | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm | 17:43 |
| Pali | I'm sure that when flashing full fiasco image, then also included nolo+xloader are flashed | 17:43 |
| Pali | also cmt image is flashed | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe NOLO is 'smart' enough to not flash xloader or itself when ther new version is identical | 17:44 |
| Pali | seems no | 17:44 |
| Pali | it flash it always | 17:44 |
| Enrico_Menotti | What is cmt? I was wondering about those files. | 17:44 |
| Pali | cellular modem | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're sure? did you patch NOLO then flash and verify the patch is gone? | 17:44 |
| Pali | yes, I had patches nolo with different colors | 17:45 |
| Pali | and after flashing full fiasco, it was reverted | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, that's stupid by NOLO and its authors | 17:45 |
| Pali | also I dumped whole communication between flasher-3.5 and usb protocol | 17:45 |
| Pali | so I saw there that whole xloader and nolo image is sent | 17:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | downloading NOLO image doesn't mandate it getting flashed | 17:46 |
| Pali | but you are unable to flash only nolo | 17:46 |
| Pali | you need to send both xloader and nolo image | 17:46 |
| Pali | and then send command to flash them | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, since it's one chunk with xloader | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one partition | 17:46 |
| Pali | not exactly truth | 17:47 |
| Pali | nolo has own partition scheme | 17:47 |
| Pali | and in nolo, xloader and nolo are on different parititons | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I'm prolly too distracted right atm | 17:47 |
| Pali | basically that mtd0 which is visible in linux is divided into mtd0 and mtd1 in nolo | 17:47 |
| Pali | and in nolo then there is mtd2 which is linux's mtd1 | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat /proc/mtd | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dev: size erasesize name | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtd0: 00020000 00020000 "bootloader" | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtd1: 00060000 00020000 "config" | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtd2: 00040000 00020000 "log" | 17:48 |
| Pali | and everything is shifted | 17:48 |
| Pali | in nolo mtd0 has smaller size | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy | 17:48 |
| Pali | note that mtd parition size is just SW thing | 17:48 |
| Pali | hardcoded in kernel | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :ack: | 17:49 |
| Pali | so you can patch kernel to have fully different layout | 17:49 |
| Pali | e.g. divide rootfs into more partitions | 17:49 |
| Pali | but because nolo has fixed parition for kernel, you must have kernel image at that offset | 17:49 |
| Pali | otherwise nolo would not boot your custom kernel | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you maybe could merge initrd partition to kernel partition | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | initfs partiton that is | 17:50 |
| Pali | no you cannot, because booting is done by nolo | 17:51 |
| Pali | nolo has hardcoded kernel part together with it size | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even if NOLO doesn't grok it, it might still allow to load uBoot and have kernel spanning over both partitions | 17:51 |
| Pali | so, yes, you can extend kernel part in linux kernel image, but that would not be visible for nolo | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NOLO only needs to 'see' the uBoot part | 17:52 |
| Pali | hm.. you could put uboot into kernel part and then teach uboot to see "long" size with initfs | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 17:52 |
| Pali | but easier would be tell uboot to loader kernel from initfs :-) | 17:52 |
| Pali | and no need to hack with partition sizes | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's another possibility | 17:53 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: you have qflasher tool and also xloader+nolo images for qemu, so you can look into nolo debug console :-) | 17:53 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Pali (About cmt.) Ah. The infamous closed-source code which has not been RE yet, right? | 17:55 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Pali What is the qflasher? | 17:55 |
| Pali | also it is signed and probably also encrypted | 17:55 |
| Enrico_Menotti | cmt? | 17:55 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05 would know more? | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: cmt is the modem firmware. You don't even consider REing that | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, afaik cmt firmware is cryptosigned | 17:56 |
| Pali | qflasher is a tool for creating mtd partition dump with filling CAL + supplied images, suitable for booting from qemu | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not encrypted | 17:56 |
| Pali | at least downgrading cmt is not possible | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could tell, feeding the cmt stuff to a tool like hexrays | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's also a ARM | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | google Nokia BB5 | 17:59 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ehm sorry, but the closed-source layer which needs to be re-written in order to use the modem in a different OS (not Maemo), e.g. Devuan - the one which ofono tries to replace - what is that? The cmt modem firmware may be used on any OS? | 17:59 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Pali I didn't understand anything about qflasher, sorry. It's my fault, yes. | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: BB5 modem is a complete system on its own. The cmt firmware is the OS for that system. The closed blobs in maemo are for talking to the interface (SSI, ISI protocol) | 18:01 |
| Wizzup | The main thing required for calls on mainline at this point is REing the pulse plugins afaik | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cmt itself is not a part of maemo | 18:02 |
| Wizzup | you can already make basic calls, but the quality is terrible | 18:02 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Wizzup Yeah I read that. | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the quality suffers from cmtspeech driver not implemented in a correct way, afaik. The audio plugins add a bit to quality but not that much, they mainly add echo cancelation, confort noise, dynamic compression etc | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the problem with cmtspeech is: cmt is master, APE is slave. And slave needs to adjust own audio clock according to timing adjust messages sent by master via ISI | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *vry* screwed | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | very* even | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the maemo BB5 Nokia crew fscked up that design | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the protocol is abysmal | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the problems from bashing an existing modem into shape by sledgehammer | 18:07 |
| Pali | iirc nokia "fixed" audio quality by own audio filters | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a completely different story afaik | 18:08 |
| KotCzarny | pali: LOL | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BB5 is a genuine Nokia design | 18:09 |
| Pali | something which should probably be done in analogue hw or on DSP | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | used in 5 dozen different phone models | 18:09 |
| Pali | and nokia implemented those filters via vector instructions on cpu | 18:09 |
| Pali | neon | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, those are the PA-plugins | 18:10 |
| Pali | and that is another mistake | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but again, those are only marginally contributing to speech quality | 18:10 |
| Pali | but very important | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not really | 18:10 |
| Pali | without them audio quality is terrible | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | did you tests by replacing them with dummies while keeping the genuine cmtspeech stuff? | 18:11 |
| Pali | nemo n900 port did it | 18:12 |
| Pali | they had oficial recompiled binaries of those plugins for nemo | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all terrible audio I've heard (of) was due to defects in cmtspeech, not due to missing or defective PA_nokia | 18:12 |
| Pali | it is possible that those plugins are trying to fix also those defects... in software | 18:13 |
| Pali | nokia (c) solution | 18:13 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if wireshark has dissectors for cmtspeech ISI | 18:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not possible | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can't fix packet loss with a filter | 18:14 |
| Pali | try to ask pavelm, he did lot of work with cmtspeech and has own system with audio call support, so probably have also some cmtspeech isi parser | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway folks, I'm busy. Sorry. o/ | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a last bright sidenote: Neo900 has plain PCM audio on modem, no nifty plugins and no cmtspeech needed | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | N900 cmt is a PITA | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf - I could trash about 30% of assumptions in there, but that'S why cmtspeech is so terrible | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | slide 9 and on | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Cellular Modem sends up-link timing adjustment messages<< | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Align up-link buffering according to message || Change UL timing with 5 ms granularity<< | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cmtspeech nightmare | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | totally fsckd up | 18:25 |
| Pali | this design is/was used for symbian phones? | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, only for maemo afaik | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | symbian never had an APE centric audio approach | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually on symbian you hardly find devices with an APE | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Symbian AIUI regularly run INSIDE the modem | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the audio via SSI / ISI was a brute force adaption of BB5 for maemo / NIT afaik | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the design of this unique protocol been FUBAR | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they should have used normal PCM instead, or at _very_ least add a decent FIFO buffer for audio data, both directions | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | into the modem | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, audio in realtime via a network (ISI via SSI), with a timing precision of 5ms, that's INSANE. Particularly when you use no FIFOs and rely to >>Cellular Modem sends up-link timing adjustment messages<< | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's so... WROOOOOONG | 18:34 |
| Pali | that looks like it needs real-time kernel + os | 18:35 |
| Pali | to work reliable | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what you got, with cmtspeech and cgroups and PA | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the whole audio mess mainly orginates from this particular idiocy | 18:37 |
| KotCzarny | last slide is the nail to that coffin | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because BB5 Nokia team said "Duh! we can't do this any better way. Take it or leave it" | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Thanks! to Lennart Poettering for the invitation<< ROTFL indeed | 18:39 |
| APic | Ah | 18:39 |
| * APic misread BB5 as „BBS“ | 18:39 | |
| APic | Good old Mailbox-Systems back in the 1990s 😉 | 18:39 |
| Pali | why on the earth they have not used DSP in n900 for all those audio processing | 18:40 |
| Pali | looking it at, it must be expensive even for neon instructions on cpu | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: why on earth they didn't use the already existing DSP *and algos* in *modem*? | 18:41 |
| Pali | I bet they have not got documentation/information | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not, yes | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-09-02 Sat 17:38:17] <DocScrutinizer05> because BB5 Nokia team said "Duh! we can't do this any better way. Take it or leave it" | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but actually the structure on p,15 isn't wrong. The ISI audio interface is | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mic EQ and transducer processing belongs to APE. No doubt | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 8<->48 and call audio processing not that much | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the "SSI speeech driver" aka cmtspeech is the real PITA | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 8<->48 could have been done entirely in modem | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | large parts of "Call Audio Processing" as well | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then maybe they had to reinvent it in telepathy-sofiasip or whatever | 18:48 |
| Pali | sofiasip is for SIP | 18:49 |
| Pali | you probably mean telepathy-ring | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the affiliated RTP stuff then | 18:49 |
| Pali | that is for maemo cellular | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean SIP/RTP | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's also telephony and aiui uses "Voice source" and "Voice Sink" | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I suggest to link Neo900 modem audio as a simulated SIP channel | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it would need _very_ little effort to get any arbitrary modem hooked up as a virtual SIP/RTP device and simply pipe RTP to PCM|whatever and SIP to AT|whatever | 18:53 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Men, I'm reading with much interest your conversation. Now I'm starting to understand why phone calls are so hard to do in a different OS. | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | worst case (dvel *really* lazy) you could run a local asterisk and simply hook up the modem via an asterisk plugin | 18:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: :-D | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: maemo has a truckload of optimizations in "middleware" to guarantee flawless phonecalls | 18:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | actually the whole maemo5 is very much focused at phonecalls as priority #1 | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from kernel to PulseAudio to GUI | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no other OS could even think to compete | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | linuxy OS | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Symbian etc were made for phonecalls to start with, and any other stuff like "apps" etc were only afterthoughts | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | generic linux systems fall short of two things: focus on realtime audio, realtime interactive responses, priorization of calls over everything else - and standby time optimization | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for the typical linux, audio is as "challenging" as "play mp3 music without terrible dropouts", and about standby there's not even a real concept yet, only slowly emerging from the laptop/tablet sector which has way lower requirements aka larger batteries | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still all laptops and tablets know two states: active and greedy, or suspended and non-responsive | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no "inactive and extremely power saving but still highly responsive" concept | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo however does exactly this | 19:11 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Thanks all. Meanwhile there has been a swimming competition going on in Monza at 300 km/h. Unfortunately Ferrari completely lost it. Pole to Luis Hamilton. Congrats for the new world record, ahead of Michael Schumacher. | 19:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | now, an hour later, busy for good, cya o/ | 19:17 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Bye - have a nice evening. I'm leaving as well. See you all! | 19:18 |
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| codot | hello | 20:12 |
| codot | need help | 20:12 |
| codot | how to autoattach in IRC? | 20:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | codot: hm? | 20:34 |
| codot | sorry if OOT, is it possible to autojoin channel when there is some activity | 20:35 |
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| codot | DocScrutinizer05 | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, you only can autojoin a channel on IRC client startup (actually on server connect) | 20:37 |
| codot | Hmm so I cannot get notify and autojoin when I left the channel ? | 20:38 |
| codot | DocScrutinizer05 | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need to have joined a channel to detect any activity. Then your IRC client could trigger whatever sort of notification | 20:38 |
| codot | Hmm okay. | 20:39 |
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| codot | Thanks DocScrutinizer05 | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 20:50 |
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| rhn_mk1 | DocScrutinizer05: my n900 is dry and working :) | 20:52 |
| rhn_mk1 | except for the USB ID surge protection IC that I carelessly chipped off | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 20:52 |
| rhn_mk1 | you hints will help me not make any more stupid mistakes | 20:52 |
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| sunshavi | Enrico_Menotti: I am an f1 fan also 69 was nice | 23:03 |
| Enrico_Menotti | 69? | 23:04 |
| sunshavi | hamilton # of poles | 23:04 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ah yeah sorry. | 23:04 |
| Enrico_Menotti | A sexy # of poles. | 23:04 |
| sunshavi | lol. Well. points only on sunday | 23:05 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Yes but without any surprise he will win the race - and probably also the championship, I fear. I expect tomorrow he will overtake Seb in the championship points. | 23:06 |
| sunshavi | race is going to be on dry conditions. So Don't lose your hope | 23:06 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Yeah, on dry conditions it's without surprises, I think. | 23:06 |
| Enrico_Menotti | So the Red Bulls will be a bit backwards... then we have Hamilton, the young guy I don't remember the name, somebody else from Force India, Bottas, and in third row the two Ferrari, right? | 23:08 |
| sunshavi | Stroll and Ocon | 23:08 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Yeah. | 23:08 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I hope the Ferrari will be able to overtake Stroll and Ocon, although I fear Ocon is too fast. If they are lucky also Bottas, so Seb may be second or third, in the best case. | 23:09 |
| sunshavi | Enrico_Menotti: on a phone call | 23:17 |
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