| *** dafox has joined #maemo | 00:07 | |
| *** sq-one has quit IRC | 00:08 | |
| *** dafox has quit IRC | 00:41 | |
| *** Kabouik has quit IRC | 00:55 | |
| freemangordon | Vajb_: sorry, don't get the question, just ask in whatever form it fits you | 01:02 |
|---|---|---|
| parazyd | freemangordon, Wizzup: will send you an email with info when i get home | 01:09 |
| parazyd | just finished the videoconf | 01:09 |
| parazyd | bbl | 01:10 |
| *** xy2_ has quit IRC | 01:12 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170628.215352.678fe0a2.en.html | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | better than | 01:17 |
| Vajb_ | freemangordon: i meant /query you, if it is ok? | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~systemd | 01:17 |
| infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, H. Hoyer, D. Mack, T. Gundersen, D. Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel. See ~nosystemd" | 01:17 |
| L29Ah | ~nosystemd | 01:18 |
| infobot | rumour has it, nosystemd is https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ | 01:18 |
| Vajb_ | has this rumor been full filled? | 01:19 |
| *** Kabouik has joined #maemo | 01:19 | |
| *** Pali has quit IRC | 01:36 | |
| *** L29Ah has left #maemo | 01:55 | |
| *** joga_ has quit IRC | 01:58 | |
| *** joga_ has joined #maemo | 01:58 | |
| *** joga_ is now known as joga | 01:58 | |
| *** L29Ah has joined #maemo | 01:58 | |
| parazyd | email sent | 01:59 |
| *** guerby has quit IRC | 02:00 | |
| *** Kabouik has quit IRC | 02:00 | |
| *** guerby has joined #maemo | 02:07 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 02:13 | |
| *** LauRoman has quit IRC | 02:33 | |
| *** infobot has quit IRC | 03:19 | |
| *** infobot has joined #maemo | 03:21 | |
| *** cyphase has quit IRC | 03:51 | |
| *** cyphase has joined #maemo | 04:29 | |
| *** ravelo_ has joined #maemo | 04:47 | |
| *** err0r3o3 has quit IRC | 04:50 | |
| *** ravelo has quit IRC | 04:50 | |
| *** cyphase has quit IRC | 04:51 | |
| *** err0r3o3 has joined #maemo | 04:51 | |
| *** florian__ has joined #maemo | 05:08 | |
| *** florian_kc has quit IRC | 05:12 | |
| *** drcode has quit IRC | 05:57 | |
| *** drcode has joined #maemo | 06:08 | |
| *** pagurus has quit IRC | 06:12 | |
| *** CcxWrk has quit IRC | 06:12 | |
| *** pagurus has joined #maemo | 06:13 | |
| *** CcxWrk has joined #maemo | 06:16 | |
| *** povbot has joined #maemo | 06:35 | |
| *** Juesto has joined #maemo | 06:58 | |
| Juesto | hey | 06:58 |
| Juesto | shouldn't be easier to get maemo working on something like Ubuntu which uses upstart? | 06:59 |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC | 07:05 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo | 07:05 | |
| L29Ah | something like ubuntu uses fresh glibc that can't run on something like 2.6.28 that runs on n900, and the upstream kernel hardware support is incomplete and for some parts incompatible with maemo's interfaces | 07:06 |
| *** buZz has quit IRC | 07:10 | |
| *** buZz has joined #maemo | 07:20 | |
| *** buZz has quit IRC | 07:24 | |
| *** err0r3o3 has quit IRC | 07:24 | |
| *** err0r3o3 has joined #maemo | 07:26 | |
| *** Juesto has quit IRC | 07:27 | |
| *** LauRoman has joined #maemo | 07:28 | |
| *** Juesto has joined #maemo | 07:33 | |
| *** buZz has joined #maemo | 07:43 | |
| *** drcode has quit IRC | 08:02 | |
| *** drcode has joined #maemo | 08:07 | |
| *** spiiroin has quit IRC | 08:14 | |
| *** spiiroin has joined #maemo | 08:17 | |
| *** cyteen has quit IRC | 08:33 | |
| *** cyteen has joined #maemo | 08:35 | |
| *** dmth|intevation has joined #maemo | 08:35 | |
| *** cyphase has quit IRC | 08:46 | |
| *** dafox has joined #maemo | 09:01 | |
| *** cyphase has joined #maemo | 09:09 | |
| *** LauRoman|Alt has joined #maemo | 09:12 | |
| *** cyphase has quit IRC | 09:15 | |
| *** LauRoman has quit IRC | 09:15 | |
| *** Pali has joined #maemo | 09:26 | |
| *** dafox has quit IRC | 09:27 | |
| *** cyteen has quit IRC | 09:39 | |
| *** Pali has quit IRC | 09:40 | |
| *** sfa has joined #maemo | 09:48 | |
| *** eMHa has quit IRC | 10:03 | |
| *** buZz has quit IRC | 10:13 | |
| *** drcode has quit IRC | 10:20 | |
| *** buZz has joined #maemo | 10:21 | |
| *** Juesto has quit IRC | 10:22 | |
| *** sfa has quit IRC | 10:23 | |
| *** drcode has joined #maemo | 10:29 | |
| *** eMHa has joined #maemo | 10:29 | |
| *** jskarvad has joined #maemo | 10:45 | |
| *** jskarvad has quit IRC | 10:45 | |
| *** jskarvad has joined #maemo | 10:45 | |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | maemo has upstart anyway and ubuntu is now on systemd due to having to follow Debian. This I guess has left upstart un-maintained. | 10:53 |
| *** ravelo__ has joined #maemo | 10:56 | |
| *** ravelo_ has quit IRC | 10:59 | |
| *** dmth|intevation has quit IRC | 11:21 | |
| *** florian__ is now known as florian | 11:23 | |
| *** dmth|intevation has joined #maemo | 11:29 | |
| *** N-Mi has joined #maemo | 11:32 | |
| *** N-Mi has joined #maemo | 11:32 | |
| *** spiiroin has quit IRC | 11:36 | |
| *** cyteen has joined #maemo | 11:51 | |
| *** spiiroin has joined #maemo | 11:59 | |
| *** TheKit has joined #maemo | 13:06 | |
| *** Smily has quit IRC | 13:06 | |
| *** xy2_ has joined #maemo | 13:08 | |
| *** NeKit has quit IRC | 13:09 | |
| *** Wikiwide has joined #maemo | 13:18 | |
| *** Wikiwide has left #maemo | 13:18 | |
| *** Wikiwide has joined #maemo | 13:19 | |
| Wikiwide | Should I enable CSSU-devel repository if I already have CSSU-thumb enabled? | 13:20 |
| bencoh | cssu-devel really is "devel" | 13:21 |
| bencoh | it's not meant for regular use | 13:22 |
| Wikiwide | Okay. Will not risk it for everyday device, especially due to lack of microUSB port. | 13:41 |
| *** xy2_ has quit IRC | 14:17 | |
| *** dmth|intevation has quit IRC | 14:43 | |
| *** dmth|intevation has joined #maemo | 14:45 | |
| *** HRH_H_Cr1b is now known as HRH_H_Crab | 15:24 | |
| *** geaaru has joined #maemo | 15:25 | |
| *** oniongarlic has quit IRC | 15:25 | |
| *** qwazix has quit IRC | 15:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-devel *IS* broken - by definition | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what you want is cssu-testing which is supposed to have all working packages | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and afaik cssu-thumb alrady is an overlay to cssu-t, which in turn is an overlay to maemo core repos | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so to make this utterly clear: when you ask apt to install a package, then (if you git thumb config) it shall first look into cssu-thumb, then if not found there it looks into cssu-testing, then finally it shall try to get from maemo core repos and possibly maemo-tools and other auciliary repos | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/git/got/ | 15:34 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: so to make this utterly clear: when you ask apt to install a package, then (if you got thumb config) it shall first look into cssu-thumb, then if not found there it looks into cssu-testing, then finally it shall try to get from maemo core repos and possib... | 15:34 |
| *** qwazix has joined #maemo | 15:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's all about priorities of repos | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-thumb is replacing *some* packages found in lower prio repos (I.E. cssu-t and genuine Nokia/maemo-extras repos) by a specially compiked version (some compiler flags basically) that results in smaller binary that only runs on systems with powerkernel_thumbpatched | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want any other higer prio repo than cssu-thunb in your config | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | smae basically applies to CSSU at large, just CSSU has packages with bugfixes replacing packages from lower prio repos | 15:43 |
| *** xy2_ has joined #maemo | 15:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-extras is NOT supposed to repkace any packages from nokia core repos aka system | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so maemo-extras is strictly supplementary | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gosh my typing sucks, sorry | 15:45 |
| *** err0r3o3_ has joined #maemo | 15:45 | |
| *** err0r3o3 has quit IRC | 15:48 | |
| *** oniongarlic has joined #maemo | 15:49 | |
| *** chem|st has quit IRC | 16:14 | |
| *** chem|st has joined #maemo | 16:14 | |
| *** xy2_ has quit IRC | 16:25 | |
| *** spiiroin has quit IRC | 16:25 | |
| *** xy2_ has joined #maemo | 16:30 | |
| *** spiiroin has joined #maemo | 16:41 | |
| *** auenf has quit IRC | 17:14 | |
| *** chainsawbike has quit IRC | 17:19 | |
| *** dmth|intevation has quit IRC | 17:23 | |
| *** eMHa has quit IRC | 17:28 | |
| *** auenf has joined #maemo | 17:41 | |
| *** chainsawbike has joined #maemo | 17:42 | |
| *** louis_ has joined #maemo | 17:43 | |
| *** Smily has joined #maemo | 17:55 | |
| *** Pali has joined #maemo | 18:10 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 18:16 | |
| freemangordon | parazyd: do I get it right that maemo-devuan packages has to be in a repo hosted on maemo servers? | 18:27 |
| *** eMHa has joined #maemo | 18:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good question, I don't think the usual amprolla operation works nice with the classical maemo repo structure | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc the idea was to have a true full repo for maemo-devuan | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on devuan | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you'd need to port *all* packages | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yes, but if this is not accepted by devuan guys we will have to host it on maemo servers | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | no, why all packages? | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | it will be a separate repo (if it comes to it) | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, all you want to use, at least. Since you can't 'mirror' to e.g. maemo-extras | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'd not see how such a devuan specific repo should get hosted on maemo | 18:33 |
| freemangordon | ah. but that was clear from the beginning | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | needlessly complicated, and no rationale for that | 18:34 |
| freemangordon | lets wait for parazyd to elaborate | 18:34 |
| *** louis_ has quit IRC | 18:34 | |
| Wizzup | freemangordon: I think that was unclear still | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jaromil told me he'd love to host the complete maemo-devuan, no need to spread it over several domains | 18:34 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: at least not clear to me what was decided :) | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and "using the complete devuan CI" makes sense only when the repo and don't know-what_autobuilder(?) lives on one server, no? | 18:36 |
| Wizzup | fwiw. 'complete maemo-devuan' = whatever extra pkgs we want to add on std devuan (e.g. h-d related packages). definitely not init systems or lots of other things they already have | 18:37 |
| freemangordon | no, why, it might work the same way as maemo infra I guess, spread over several servers | 18:37 |
| *** louis_ has joined #maemo | 18:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe several servers but for sure not several domains | 18:38 |
| freemangordon | anway, lets wait for parazyd as we're doing wild guesses now | 18:38 |
| Wizzup | so what we want works just fine with amprolla3 | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: yeah, that's what I wonder how much of maemo will be in maemo-devuan in the end. Prolly not much | 18:40 |
| parazyd | hey | 18:40 |
| parazyd | patience | 18:40 |
| parazyd | let me type it out | 18:40 |
| Wizzup | whatever is worth savind can be ported over time ;) | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: this is snother story | 18:40 |
| parazyd | jenkins needs a place to push the packages. dan doesn't want to host it on the devuan infra | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm personally not interested nuch in a rebase-port | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | *another | 18:40 |
| parazyd | but we can host it on some dyne infra if necessary | 18:41 |
| freemangordon | parazyd: ah, I see | 18:41 |
| parazyd | but i need someone who knows how to setup dak | 18:41 |
| parazyd | or whatever repo manager | 18:41 |
| parazyd | then you use amprolla to merge packages you build with devuan's | 18:41 |
| parazyd | and you only host the maemo packages built by jenkins | 18:41 |
| freemangordon | parazyd: ok, it is clearer now | 18:41 |
| parazyd | and in fact you won't need that much space | 18:42 |
| parazyd | i'm guessing armhf/arm64/i386/amd64 is enough | 18:42 |
| parazyd | i'm pretty sure i can host this on a machine in our lab in an lxc | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | so, from the end-user perspective, one have to add maemo-devuan repos, hosted on maemo servers in order to be able to install ported hildon-desktop, right? | 18:43 |
| Wizzup | yes | 18:43 |
| parazyd | yes, let's call it amprolla.maemo.org | 18:43 |
| parazyd | and that's the repository hosting the merged Packages files, and only maemo debs | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think a "hmm, devuan is working now on N900, but I'd love to throw in hildon desktop instead of LXDE" has high attractivity, neither is it sustainable in the end from a perspective of manpower needed | 18:43 |
| parazyd | other debs are retrieved by nginx rewrites from devuan/debian | 18:43 |
| freemangordon | parazyd: what about armel target? | 18:44 |
| parazyd | sure | 18:44 |
| parazyd | anything | 18:44 |
| parazyd | i'm actually getting a few boards soon that were donated for the devuan build infra | 18:44 |
| parazyd | so have to set them up as build slaves | 18:44 |
| parazyd | i'll be on and off until tuesday since i'm holding a workshop in france, but i'll try to manage and setup an lxc for you for this stuff | 18:45 |
| Wizzup | parazyd: so we can't just have the maemo-devuan pkgs in a repo without amprolla magic? | 18:45 |
| parazyd | and then i guess try to find someone who knows how to setup dak. i'll ask for more info how it has to be setup | 18:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it is NOT about n900, but about rebasing maemo and running it on whatever device that can boot linux and has 3d drivers | 18:45 |
| parazyd | Wizzup: no, you cannot | 18:45 |
| Wizzup | if we just add it in addition to normal devuan pkg repos | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd prefer the approach to throw in devuan's kernel and core system into a full size maemo | 18:46 |
| parazyd | Wizzup: you merge the maemo packages with devuan using amprolla | 18:46 |
| freemangordon | this is the goal, but it will take time | 18:46 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your means determine the goal you can reach | 18:46 |
| * freemangordon is going to have something to eat, bbl | 18:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you start out with a plain devuan it will never be a full maemo any time | 18:47 |
| parazyd | which is why the packages are being ported | 18:47 |
| *** Kabouik has joined #maemo | 18:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you start with a full working maemo you can throw in devuan parts on a when-needed basis | 18:47 |
| bencoh | ... | 18:48 |
| parazyd | i don't think that's sustainable imho | 18:48 |
| parazyd | and doesn't work the way you think it works | 18:48 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: *no* you can't and we've been through this a dozen time | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, we've been through this a dizen times and I not once heard a compelling argument how the "start with plain devuan" approach would eventually result in a full featured maemo | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least not maemo6, maybe maemo8 | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/maemo6/maemo5/ | 18:50 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: at least not maemo5, maybe maemo8 | 18:50 |
| Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: unless you're going to do the work, why go over it again? | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hm? | 18:53 |
| *** louis_ has quit IRC | 18:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's nothing unusual with "backports", you got that in every distro. However maemo-devuan looks like a forward port of _some_ parts of maemo to devuan, not like a backport of some devuan stuff to maemo, when needed or desirable | 19:00 |
| Wizzup | correct, the aim is to produce something that is not loaded with ancient crypto libs and other baggage | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the difference being: forward port of maemo could as well happen to any arbitrary other distro | 19:02 |
| Wizzup | you can try to implement your way and see how it goes | 19:02 |
| parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: jaromil says he never offered such a thing (hosting maemo-devuan) | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks, captain obvious. I heard that bullshit every single time when people are too polite to simply state "I know better, so shut up and take or leave the stuff I do" | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then I got that wrong | 19:03 |
| *** louis_ has joined #maemo | 19:03 | |
| parazyd | he says we can't ensure reliability for anyone | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe because of that difference in approach | 19:04 |
| parazyd | the CI is ok to use, but can't depend on the infra to do backups/bandwith | 19:04 |
| parazyd | maybe you confused it with the usage of CI/jenkins? | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought we'd host backports on maemo-devuan, you want (or don't want) to host a complete new unrelated distro there | 19:05 |
| Wizzup | parazyd: it's nbd to host it | 19:05 |
| parazyd | ok | 19:05 |
| freemangordon | parazyd: I guess maemo admin won;t refuse to host one more repo with a couple of hundred packages | 19:06 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: propozed setting up reprepo, is it ok? | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in my book maemo-devuan was an overlay of xsorts, just like CSSU | 19:06 |
| parazyd | freemangordon: from my understanding any repo manager is okay | 19:06 |
| Wizzup | overlay on top of devuan | 19:07 |
| freemangordon | I mean "merlin proposed..." | 19:07 |
| parazyd | yeah i understood | 19:07 |
| freemangordon | which is what maemo is after all - an overlay on top of debian | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, technically there's no problem to hostz that stuff on maemo infra | 19:07 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yes, but it will need maintance as well I guess :) | 19:07 |
| parazyd | as a matter of fact it could be even better since you already have the repository setup, no? | 19:07 |
| parazyd | might require tweaks only | 19:08 |
| parazyd | anyway, as said, i'm going to find out more about the needs for this | 19:08 |
| merlin1991 | nah "that repository" is something you don't want to add to | 19:08 |
| freemangordon | mhm :D | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yres, and I don't think anybody is going to implement devuan's infra on maemo | 19:08 |
| parazyd | merlin1991: separate repository, same server/manager isn't possible? | 19:08 |
| merlin1991 | it's powered by apt-ftparchive a bazillion folders and shellscripts... | 19:08 |
| merlin1991 | sure | 19:08 |
| parazyd | oh | 19:08 |
| parazyd | simply put, jenkins needs a place to push the .debs. then the repo manager would grab them, generate a repo out of them and amprolla would merge that one with devuan | 19:09 |
| merlin1991 | that's easy todo | 19:10 |
| freemangordon | I guess it will not be a problem | 19:10 |
| merlin1991 | my tool of choice would be reprepro since I know it | 19:10 |
| parazyd | :) | 19:10 |
| freemangordon | parazyd: where is that amprolla going to work? on maemo servers? | 19:10 |
| parazyd | Centurion_Dan mentioned reprepo is okay iirc | 19:10 |
| parazyd | freemangordon: i suppose so | 19:10 |
| freemangordon | ok | 19:10 |
| Wizzup | I think it's seperable somewhat | 19:11 |
| parazyd | it can run remotely, but then you would have to rsync the data between servers | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I have to say that at least FPTF approach as discussed by several and agreed upon as feasible is _not_ related in _any_ way to what became of maremo-devuan now | 19:11 |
| parazyd | actually | 19:11 |
| parazyd | amprolla can run anywhere | 19:11 |
| parazyd | i forgot it's nginx that does the rewrites | 19:11 |
| *** ced117_ has quit IRC | 19:11 | |
| parazyd | rewrites = pointers to .debs | 19:11 |
| freemangordon | well, I guess it is better to run on a server, not on a laptop or mobile :) | 19:12 |
| *** ced117 has joined #maemo | 19:12 | |
| *** ced117 has quit IRC | 19:12 | |
| *** ced117 has joined #maemo | 19:12 | |
| parazyd | yes ofcource | 19:12 |
| Wizzup | lets get the reprepro workflow going | 19:12 |
| parazyd | right | 19:12 |
| Wizzup | worry about amprolla later | 19:12 |
| parazyd | i'll ask if there are any specific needs for reprepo+jenkins | 19:12 |
| freemangordon | lets wait for xes and warfare to have their saying | 19:12 |
| parazyd | Centurion_Dan is in a +12 timezone | 19:12 |
| merlin1991 | if anything reprepro might start complaining about the incoming packages :D | 19:12 |
| freemangordon | also, I guess we'll need some kind of approval from the council | 19:13 |
| merlin1991 | it's quite picky about everthing being in order | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FPTF idea was to let maemo evolve bottom-up slowly and organically into what you hope to reach top-down in one huge effort now with maemo-devuan | 19:13 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: on what device you're going to run that FPTF-maemo in two years? | 19:13 |
| *** louis_ has quit IRC | 19:15 | |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: my point - there is a lack of any linux based mobile distro (besides sailfish but it is disputable what kind of linux-based it is) | 19:15 |
| parazyd | the neo900 | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously on those that were targeted by the project, which was from genuine N900 as test platform to Neo900 to e.g beagleboard to padorabox to pyra and maybe eventually even to platforms that don't have OMAP CPU. In two years? no idea since obviosuly everybody thinks you could reach the endpoint of FPTF (run on non-OMAP) in less than 2 years | 19:16 |
| * parazyd ducks | 19:16 | |
| Wizzup | what's the point in carrying all that old sw? if it's not maintained and ported to new libs, it'll just rot forever | 19:16 |
| Wizzup | the point was to take useful parts and have them, not everything per se | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you decide what's useful in maemo? OK | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but don't call it maemo then | 19:17 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: usefull is everything that is humanly possible to be ported | 19:17 |
| Wizzup | why take devuan and then run maemo browser in its current shape on it? | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because a friggin lot of other maemo subsystems need that very browser? | 19:18 |
| Wizzup | like? | 19:19 |
| freemangordon | conversations and what else? | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | messaging | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | call history | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maps iirc | 19:19 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: wrong, it is not using THAT browser, but whatever eal there is | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eal IS 'that browser' | 19:20 |
| freemangordon | no, it is an interface to whatever browser you may want | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nitpicking | 19:20 |
| Wizzup | lol | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and libcmt is an interface to whatever modem you want | 19:20 |
| freemangordon | afaik no | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the question was >>why [...] run maemo browser [...] on it?" and the answer is: you want a browser that supports eal. Zhere's one that already does and of course "you are free to do the work to implement a better one" | 19:24 |
| *** louis_ has joined #maemo | 19:24 | |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: continuing to use packages from 2009 is not a sane thing in my book | 19:25 |
| freemangordon | and once you try to use newer, it pulls a huge pile of dependencies | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think the answer to that is already in my last few posts | 19:25 |
| freemangordon | and you have to port them as well | 19:25 |
| freemangordon | and you're still outdated as while you were porting, a couple of CVE fixes appear and you have to again backport | 19:26 |
| xes | WTF ...no... i think today i can't read all this backlog .. | 19:26 |
| freemangordon | xes: no, check on ##maemo-admin | 19:26 |
| xes | freemangordon: ok | 19:27 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the only sane way I know is to bandwagon some modern distro, devuan was chosen because of systemd | 19:29 |
| freemangordon | and because it is debian derivative, the same what maemo is | 19:30 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: in terms of FPTF - I am REing closed packages on as-needed basis - if FOSS package has a dependency on closed one, I RE it and it is included. NOTHING is stripped from the system so far | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the thing you want to do (port some few 'useful' things to another distro) it doesn't matter basically if there's systemd or if it's debian based. For such a project I had cosen sailfish as new upstream distro | 19:32 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: wrong, I don't want to port "few useful" things, but the whole maemo, removing stuff like gnomevfs for example | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | didn't know maemo had gnomevfs | 19:33 |
| freemangordon | all over the place | 19:34 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: where you have a couple of free minutes, look at https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2 to see the number of packages ported so far. And this is just the beginning, however I have hildon-desktop, hildon-status-menu and hildon-home FULLY FUNCTIONAL (sort of) in 64bit devuan | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nice, but not relevant for me right now | 19:37 |
| freemangordon | IOW - we have hildon stack ported to recent debian and more or less working | 19:37 |
| freemangordon | that's another story | 19:37 |
| bencoh | <3 for all the work done so far, by the way | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm worried about thermal management, power management, audio, connection handling, notifications etc pp | 19:38 |
| freemangordon | I am worried as well, but first was hildon stack, without that running, nothing is possible | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm except notifications all I listed is unrelated to hildon | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | this stuff will get ported when it comes to it. And it won;t be stripped, you have my word on that | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | it is, as most of it works as hildon-status-menu plugins ;) | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | connection-handling: https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/iphbd | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're talking GUI, I'm talking middleware and drivers | 19:41 |
| freemangordon | iphbd is not gui | 19:41 |
| freemangordon | clockd is not gui | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | neither is alarmd | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I seriously doubt you can come up with a middleware fitting under an existing GUI layer, once the latter is implemented | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | I am not going to come-up with a middleware, but will reuse the one in fremantle | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | well, some parts will have to be ported, for example to upoer the same way I ported to gio from gnomevfs | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | *upower | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | for network management I am still to decide, and I am not even sure I am the one that has to take that decision | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how is your GUI stuff working then when the middleware is not there. e.g. how would a mediaplayer do audio when there's no mafw it's supposed to use under true maemo? (maybe I should try harder to come up with better example but maybe you get my point nevertheless) | 19:44 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I got your point, thus https://github.com/community-ssu/libplayback, for example | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh nice | 19:45 |
| freemangordon | stuff gets REed and ported when it comes to it | 19:45 |
| freemangordon | or https://github.com/community-ssu/osso-bookmark-engine | 19:45 |
| freemangordon | etc | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, I think I get your point too, probably your approach is evidently more feasible than I thought | 19:46 |
| freemangordon | I am going to try to reuse as much as possible from stock maemo. If it is possible(and sane), it will be reused, if not - it will be replaced with upstream equivalents | 19:46 |
| freemangordon | finally :) | 19:47 |
| bencoh | \o/ :) | 19:47 |
| bencoh | (I think this should be marked as a project milestone ;p) | 19:47 |
| Wizzup | :D | 19:47 |
| *** louis_ has quit IRC | 19:48 | |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: actually I am trying to achieve FPTF goal, but from the opposite direction, without making maemo fall apart on every package I try to replace with upstream one | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, what I said, top-down vs bottom-up approach. I didn't realize how close you already are | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bottom-up has the immanent advantage to yield results in intermediate states, while top-down has to get pretty close to the final goal before you get useful results | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | downside of my bottom-up: it's usually much slower | 19:58 |
| freemangordon | well, not that close, lots of work to be done still. thus we want to setup a repo with what is done so far, make some PR noise in a hope more devs to join as this is not as task for one or two devs | 19:58 |
| freemangordon | *a task | 19:58 |
| freemangordon | that way I will be able to focus on REing while the others will do the porting of FOSS stuff | 19:59 |
| freemangordon | sounds like a plan, right? :) | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd like to help with that making-noise, on neo900.org | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, absilutely, sounds like a decent plan | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | but first, we need repo running | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that been the reason why I offered to run a FPTF repo on neo900 before devuan even existed | 20:00 |
| *** Wikiwide has left #maemo | 20:01 | |
| sunshavi | ~fptf | 20:01 |
| infobot | hmm... fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 | 20:01 |
| sunshavi | ~reing | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | having devuan guys helping us is great thing IMO | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought the same, that's why I pestered them over at #devuan | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and pestered you to join there | 20:02 |
| freemangordon | mhm, many thanks for that one | 20:02 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 recalls the shitsortm when neo900 newsletter mentioned that devuan is joining forces with maemo now, and sighs | 20:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "what, you don't support debian anymore??? I'm not interested anymore in neo900!!" | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 20:06 |
| *** Smily has quit IRC | 20:07 | |
| *** louis_ has joined #maemo | 20:10 | |
| *** notverynice has joined #maemo | 20:20 | |
| *** xy2_ has quit IRC | 20:35 | |
| *** xy2_ has joined #maemo | 20:37 | |
| *** louis_ has quit IRC | 21:25 | |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 21:28 | |
| *** xy2_ has quit IRC | 21:34 | |
| *** err0r3o3_ is now known as err0r3o3 | 21:35 | |
| *** xy2_ has joined #maemo | 21:47 | |
| *** louis_ has joined #maemo | 21:49 | |
| *** louis_ has quit IRC | 21:54 | |
| *** notverynice has quit IRC | 21:54 | |
| *** jskarvad has quit IRC | 21:56 | |
| *** geaaru has quit IRC | 22:01 | |
| *** xy2_ has quit IRC | 22:02 | |
| *** xy2_ has joined #maemo | 22:05 | |
| *** xy2_ has quit IRC | 22:11 | |
| *** xy2_ has joined #maemo | 22:13 | |
| *** dafox has joined #maemo | 22:46 | |
| *** Juesto has joined #maemo | 23:06 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 23:17 | |
| *** xorly has joined #maemo | 23:26 | |
| *** dafox has quit IRC | 23:32 | |
| *** dafox has joined #maemo | 23:53 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!