| sicelo | i can see the menu, and currently set to Large. Even when I choose Huge, size remains the same | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Enrico_Menotti | sicelo Ehm... I realise I don't understand the difference between X Terminal, osso-xterm and xterm. From some googling, I've seen X Terminal = osso-xterm, if I'm right, and that's what comes with stock Maemo. But what about xterm? (Sorry for my ignorance.) :) | 00:01 |
| sicelo | you can install xterm from repos. works exactly like on your pc :) | 00:02 |
| bencoh | sicelo: it works here | 00:03 |
| bencoh | I wonder which font you're using (I used fixed) ... I dunno whether it works (or works the same way) with truetype/freetype fonts | 00:04 |
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| sicelo | http://paste.debian.net/931229/ - what i get when i start xterm | 00:08 |
| Sicelo009N | never dabbled in xfonts before. but i think i can troubleshoot this one | 00:13 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | sicelo I had to search for a while, but I eventually found xterm in the extras repository. But no documentation? | 00:28 |
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| sicelo | man pages you mean? Maemo does not have them :) | 00:35 |
| sicelo | to save space evidently (although you can install a man page application .. not sure what it does exactly) | 00:35 |
| bencoh | sicelo: right, I had to add misc to my x11 font path | 00:37 |
| bencoh | xset +fp /usr/share/fonts/X11/misc should be enough | 00:37 |
| bencoh | (you can also change your xorg conf, but... do one single mistake there and maemo will fail to boot) | 00:38 |
| bencoh | (and I had to add misc/fixed fonts to n900 since I don't think they're packaged in maemo) | 00:39 |
| bencoh | or you could probably try using a different fontset | 00:39 |
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| sicelo | i definitely don't have /usr/share/fonts/X11/ | 00:39 |
| sicelo | maemo sometimes ... :) | 00:40 |
| bencoh | mine are built from the iso10646/utf8 fixed font set | 00:40 |
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| bencoh | you can probably copy it from (pretty much) any system running Xorg | 00:40 |
| sicelo | copied from pc? | 00:40 |
| sicelo | ah yes | 00:40 |
| bencoh | I might have built it from source a long time ago, but yes | 00:41 |
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| sicelo | bencoh: there is xfonts-base which seems to contain them .. 8MB on rootfs though | 00:58 |
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| bencoh | you can always add a symlink I suppose (hope?) | 01:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | manpages? | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 02:47 |
| infobot | i heard jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#proper_bash_and_tools | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get install man-db-n900 | 02:49 |
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| xes | oh please... https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/05/theres-a-spike-in-android-apps-that-covertly-listen-for-inaudible-sounds-in-ads/ | 14:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | april's fool? | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohnoes! that's serious I guess | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.shopkick.com/ | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw is that just me? my brain explodes, parsing >> Enabling the file effective capability bit implies that any file permitted or inheritable capability that causes a thread to acquire the corresponding permitted capability during an execve(2) (see the transformation rules described below) will also acquire that capability in its effective set.<< | 15:37 |
| kerio | linux documentation lul | 15:38 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 wishes man pages (e.g man ip) would clearly state which capabilities the process needs to have granted to execute particular commands | 15:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /me also wonders why on his suse system >> saturn:~ # getfattr `which ping` ;-->$ZILCH; saturn:~ # getcap `which ping` ;--> /usr/bin/ping = cap_net_raw+ep << | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | selinux, apparmor? | 15:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh ok. getfattr --match=.* does the trick | 16:22 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: meanwhile freebsd can block raw sockets in jails even if you're literally uid 0 | 17:45 |
| kerio | :3 | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | suresure | 17:45 |
| kerio | it actually does so by default | 17:45 |
| kerio | you have to reenable raw sockets | 17:45 |
| kerio | admittedly there's no granularity there | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for your leisure: https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~daw/papers/setuid-usenix02.pdf (dates back to 2002 or somesuch) | 17:46 |
| kerio | ye but try freebsd tho ;o | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and https://superuser.com/questions/710253/allow-non-root-process-to-bind-to-port-80-and-443 | 17:46 |
| kerio | it's like if linux was actually sane | 17:46 |
| kerio | the whole init system is written in bourne shell ;o | 17:47 |
| kerio | the installer too | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>systemd, the new service supervision and init system that can be found in some Linux distributions, is intended to do what inetd can do. However, it doesn't use a suite of small self-contained programs. One has to audit systemd in its entirety, unfortunately.<< | 17:47 |
| kerio | it does have some pretty heavy monolithic parts | 17:48 |
| kerio | like zfs | 17:48 |
| kerio | but zfs is actually well written | 17:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if fremantle ubifs supports xattr | 17:49 | |
| kerio | we should migrate fremantle to zfs | 17:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | start with nuking optification! | 17:50 |
| kerio | it only requires a hard minimum of 64mb | 17:50 |
| kerio | what's 25% of your total ram, after all | 17:50 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i think we can't freebsd, it doesn't have any filesystems for raw flash | 17:57 |
| kerio | :( | 17:57 |
| kerio | wait i lie | 17:57 |
| kerio | it has a nandfs | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bet you do, here | 17:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I think freebsd is on a lot of embedded stuff | 17:57 |
| kerio | are those embedded things actually running with just raw flash tho' | 17:58 |
| kerio | ? | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea | 17:58 |
| kerio | i thought the usual nowadays was eMMC | 17:58 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw i still haven't figured out how asterisk works :< | 18:03 |
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| bencoh | kerio: you could always load freebsd from nand and boot with an emmc-located rootfs anyway ;) | 18:18 |
| kerio | sure | 18:18 |
| bencoh | (load kernel* from nand) | 18:18 |
| kerio | ...and use the internal nand as L2ARC ;o | 18:19 |
| bencoh | :D | 18:19 |
| kerio | praise the zfs | 18:19 |
| bencoh | riight, this device has too much ram to spare | 18:19 |
| bencoh | let's add some dedup | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 18:20 |
| kerio | hey, the iphone is getting a copy-on-write filesystem | 18:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if a fs based on hashing single blocks (4k) instead of whole files might work | 18:21 | |
| kerio | hashing? | 18:22 |
| bencoh | zfs dedup is probably not whole-file-based already | 18:22 |
| kerio | yes, it's block-based | 18:22 |
| kerio | with the size being (up to) the dataset's recordsize or (exactly) the zvol's volblocksize | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what btrfs and git do: store files only under their hash'name' and have the directory refer to those. automatically de-duplicates | 18:23 |
| kerio | that's not really what btrfs does | 18:23 |
| kerio | i'm pretty sure that btrfs is also block-based | 18:23 |
| kerio | and no, it doesn't automatically dedup | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, probably you're right | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | git does, though | 18:23 |
| kerio | it does refcounting if you snapshot and clone | 18:23 |
| kerio | and you can copy and tell it to not actually write the blocks | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know how btrfs works | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in general | 18:24 |
| kerio | well, zfs also has an optional block-level dedup | 18:24 |
| kerio | which i believe is not avaliable in btrfs (yet?) | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't know | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I only seem to recal btrfs does dedup, no idea *how* | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I was assuming, probably incorrectly | 18:25 |
| bencoh | /dev/null is a pretty good dedup option | 18:25 |
| kerio | it's not dedup in the way people would think of it | 18:25 |
| kerio | it's like... | 18:26 |
| kerio | opportunistic dedup? | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway block level hash/dedup seems like a smart approach | 18:26 |
| kerio | global dedup is probably a bad idea tbh | 18:26 |
| kerio | unless your needs are very peculiar | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hm? | 18:27 |
| kerio | how often do you think you'll have block-aligned duplicated data in your filesystem? | 18:27 |
| kerio | with the block being quite big by default, like 128kb | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | more often than you think | 18:27 |
| kerio | sure if you copy a container you'll have perfect deduplication | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh, who's using 128k blocks? | 18:28 |
| kerio | but you can just do it explicitly with a snapshot and a clone | 18:28 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the default recordsize for filesystem datasets in zfs is 128k | 18:28 |
| kerio | which means that the blocks are up to 128kb | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zfs, meh | 18:28 |
| kerio | yeah better to use the cheap penguin clone with the broken parity redundancy :^) | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 18:29 |
| kerio | raid5 and the like | 18:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 heads out | 18:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't see raid5 in embedded | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no raid at all, to be honnest | 18:30 |
| kerio | striping could be an option if having more storage devices ends up being cheaper than having one bigger storage device | 18:31 |
| kerio | although that's probably seldom the case | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doing hash over a block in buffer before writing it to storage, then slightly modify metadata though seems a feasible approach | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just add one layer of redirection/abstraction, where dir entries don't list block numbers for a file but rather they list block hashes | 18:33 |
| kerio | well, log-structured filesystems count as copy-on-write | 18:33 |
| kerio | and there's *no way* you're doing full dedup on an embedded device | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aha | 18:33 |
| kerio | that one layer of indirection ends up requiring either a lot of round trips to nonvolatile storage or an ungodly amount of ram | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? why? | 18:34 |
| kerio | because every block has to be in there | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 18:34 |
| kerio | yes | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *could* implement that shit in bashscript even | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it just writes 4k files called /.storage/7d643nfcj64393774fhswke73 | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and when said file already exists then no write | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a 40k file /foo/bar would actually resemble a "symlink" of sorts, pointing to 10 block file like /.storage/7d643nfcj64393774fhswke73 | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | writing a second identical file /foo2/barX wouldn't create any data blocks but only generate same "symlink" list of 10 data block file hashes | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and writing a 4GB all-zeroes file would utomatically colape to only one data block | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since blockN=block2=block | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1 | 18:40 |
| kerio | i mean | 18:43 |
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| kerio | the usual recommendation for zfs dedup are *five gigabytes* per tb of storage | 18:43 |
| kerio | of ram, that is | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm NOT talking about zfs | 18:43 |
| kerio | but i'm sure you could do it in shellscirpt | 18:43 |
| kerio | *script | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm talking about basically doing a md5sum (or sha*) over a 4k block in filesystem buffer and then writing it to a "regular" filesystem under the name of that hash | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then create a file with the name that was originally meant for that 4k block, and write the hash name into it | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're free to call that a "symlink" since in fact it works pretty similar | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just this "symlink" has a list of file destinations instead a single one | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and for read you concatenate the symlink destination data | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when ever any process writes a block with same hash (aka same content) then the data block already exists and thus doesn't need to get rewritten | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the problem with this approach is to *delete* data blocks. You need to do a garbage collection of sorts, or alternatively you had to count links just like with hardlinks | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probbaly the GC can get simplified when each unlink() appends the list of hashes to a journal, so the GC only needs to check those data blocks for other links pointing to them | 18:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or you implement refcount just like in inode based fs | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ("symlink" since in fact it works pretty similar) for files <4k it actually IS a symlink | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you need some RAM for the GC. But not for regular use | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's slower than a 'normal' fs - unless you have duplicate blocks in a file | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | deduplication is pretty much instant, it basically comes for free | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except for the hash calculation | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thinking about it, I wonder if ubifs works similar already | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | thimk about all the read-modify-write procedures that edit files and then write them back completely under a "new" name. They only need to write the changed 4k blocks, reusing the already existing unchanged blocks | 19:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | PoC perfectly feasuble in less than 100 lines bashscript, for a hashfs-read /foo/bar|hashfs-write /foo/bar2; hashfs-ls /foo; hashfs-rm /foo/bar (without the GC though) | 19:23 |
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| bencoh | http://maemo.org/packages/view/qmledit-qmlpreview/ seems nice :) | 21:39 |
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| buZz | anyone have a link to try that hildon port to devuan? | 22:12 |
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