IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2017-04-12

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DocScrutinizer51good plan00:21
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Maxdamantusiirc, wpa_supplicant just worked as usual.01:26
Maxdamantuson one of the 3.14 kernels for N900.01:27
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KotCzarnyi wonder if n900 could use it11:57
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bencohKotCzarny: porting all the "recent" android kernel features to the old maemo kernel would probably be a pain12:14
KotCzarnywhat about pali's kernel?12:14
bencohand I'd feel for the guy trying to build anbox for maemo using
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bencohKotCzarny: pali's tree is following mainline closely, so it wouldn't be too hard to merge back from recent kernels12:16
bencohit's actually what people do when they merge android patches back to mainline12:16
bencoh(for the parts that are not already merged, or in staging/)12:16
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jonwilI am surprised no-one has made something that lets you run Android apps on Linux in the same way WINE lets you run Windows apps on Linux. Replace the low-level Android specific libraries (including GPU drivers etc) with mapping libraries that map them to standard linux equivalents. Anything that isn't too specifically tied to the unique features of Android or specific hardware could be...12:47
jonwil...ported over to Linux.12:47
jonwilOr maybe what I talk about exists and I just haven't heard of it.12:48
KotCzarnyjonwil: that anbox seems doing something similar12:48
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sicelothere was also something a while ago doing same thing .. shashlik i think12:54
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DocScrutinizer05hi rhombus18:34
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rhombusHi DocScrutinizer0518:34
DocScrutinizer05for a start with maemo, let me ask infobot for a few factoids18:35
infobotmethinks maemo-flashing is, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing18:35
infobotlazyflashing is probably
infobotcssu is, like,, or (Community Seamless Software Update)18:36
infobotwell, jrrepos is
DocScrutinizer05the latter to compensate for the Nokia repos that went down18:36
rhombuswow, neat18:37
DocScrutinizer05for experienced linuxers:18:37
infobotfrom memory, jrtools is
DocScrutinizer05alas there's no up-to-date concise "maemo beginners howto"18:38
rhombusno worries, I should be able to manage18:38
DocScrutinizer05if *any* qustions arise, please don't hesitate to ask here.18:39
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rhombusthat's good to know18:41
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rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Damn, the battery on my N900 is almost empty again. After two days. Is that normal? This battery is new.18:43
DocScrutinizer05well, if it was powered up all the time (and maybe not even CSSU patches installed) then yes, 2 days uptime is what you can expect18:44
DocScrutinizer05when it supposedly been powered down (not just locked screen) then the battery should not see significant drain during months18:45
DocScrutinizer05with CSSU and disabling a few hogs like skype and don't know OM-weather and the like, your uptime should be >7 days when you either didn't enable WLAN or are associated to a good WLAN AP18:46
DocScrutinizer05WLAN search for APs is known to be a battery hog18:47
DocScrutinizer05that's why in network settings you can chose the period time for WLAN searching for Access Points18:48
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Ah, ok. It was on two days, WLAN is activated and I haven't made any other changes to the configuration, so I guess that explains it.18:48
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: My search interval is 10 minutes18:49
DocScrutinizer05particularly when it wasn't logged in to a WLAN AP, or that AP doesn't support PowerSavingsMode18:49
DocScrutinizer05it's dramatic. Seach for APs uses like a few hundret times more power than being logged in. So when device does a 1 minute search every 10 minutes...18:50
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: ouch -- 1 minute?18:51
rhombusSo, I should choose a longer interval18:51
DocScrutinizer05yes, it needs to scan all channels and wait for all 'visible' stations to send their beacon and ID18:52
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 I'm reading your conversation with rhombus . I have a question. Does jrrepos contain also the original Maemo images? And Nokia's flasher? Up to now, I've been using ones from a mirror found at
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Can I just manually tell it to look for a WLAN?18:52
DocScrutinizer05erstazi: no, this is just for the maemo core system packages18:53
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: ^^^ sorry#18:53
DocScrutinizer05rhombus: sure18:53
DocScrutinizer05set period to "never"18:53
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: How do I do that if an interval has been set?18:53
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rhombusWhat I mean is, if the interval has been set, it won't check between intervals. But maybe I am in an area with WLAN and want to use it. How do I force a search?18:54
DocScrutinizer05wait, it's a tiny bit more 'complex'. Sth like "switch to WLAN if available: never"18:54
* DocScrutinizer05 checks18:54
DocScrutinizer05app settings -> internet connections -> "automatically connect: <no wlan>"18:56
DocScrutinizer05so choose either "always ask" or <your cellular internet access>18:57
DocScrutinizer05do not choose "WLAN" or "any connection"18:58
siceloyou don't force a check ... just open your Internet-using application and it will search (or just choose it in the connection dialog on status menu)18:58
DocScrutinizer05what sicelo said18:59
DocScrutinizer05click in status bar to open menu, click on "<your internet connection>" button. It opens a requester searching for all connections currently available19:00
DocScrutinizer05you can also shut down the existing connection in that dialog19:00
DocScrutinizer05iow the opening of that dialog forces a WLAN scan19:01
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: including WLAN, even if it is disabled in Internet connections?19:02
DocScrutinizer05some apps might open the dialog for you when they need internet access19:02
DocScrutinizer05it's pretty convenient and easy&clear19:02
sicelovery simple, and intuitive, imo. :)19:02
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* DocScrutinizer05 highfives sicelo :-)19:03
rhombuswhat's the right way to move the scroll bar that appears at the right side of the screen when the requester comes up?19:04
DocScrutinizer05but before you start learning to know and love your N900, make sure you had reflashed it to latest clean OS19:04
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Ok, that will be my next project.19:05
DocScrutinizer05never use a OS pre-installed by somebody else19:05
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Right!!!!!!!19:05
infoboti heard lazyflashing is
rhombusSo far I haven't sent anything really sensitive with this phone19:05
DocScrutinizer05I'm a tad fond of that19:05
DocScrutinizer05lazyflashing is fun19:06
rhombusLooks simple19:06
DocScrutinizer05and really just one c&p to your linux PC terminal19:06
DocScrutinizer05(unless your OS doesn't have any support for 32bit anymore)19:07
rhombusDocScrutinizer05: why wouldn't it?19:07
DocScrutinizer05I tried to cope with that, but there are too many linux OS out there, with different pacjage managers etc19:07
rhombusI am pretty sure I still have 32-bit compatibility19:07
DocScrutinizer05well, lately more and more distros drop 32bit support19:08
rhombusHow can I test whether I have 32-bit support? (I'm running Gentoo, FWIW)19:08
DocScrutinizer05my lazyflasher tries to work around it, usinf LD_PRELOAD but that's a terrible botch19:08
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DocScrutinizer05you *might* need to manually install 32bit legacy libs19:09
* DocScrutinizer05 prolly should employ 0xffff flasher eventually, for lazyflasher19:10
DocScrutinizer05thanks to Pali we have that FOSS flasher alternative, and of course it will work with 54bit system19:11
DocScrutinizer05but first try lazyflashing! :-)19:11
DocScrutinizer05odds are you already finished flashing while I still tried to explain :-D19:12
DocScrutinizer0519:12 - 19:05, 7 minutes. More than enough time to complete the lazyflashing procedure19:12
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rhombusI will have to do that when I am at home19:22
rhombusAt work at the moment19:22
rhombusand on that note...19:22
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rhombusI must return to work -- but thanks for the tips and information! I'm looking forward to the new firmware :P19:23
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Enrico_MenottiI am a bit in a trouble with the keyboard (in Debian). I have been able to set up the rx51 keyboard by editing /etc/default/keyboard. I've set XKBMODEL="nokiarx51" and XKBLAYOUT="it". This allows Italian keys to be used. But I'd need some special characters: |, ~, escape, etc. I tried editing /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51, but nothing seems to change. I also don't understand where the nokiarx51 config20:04
Enrico_Menotti file is stored (/usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/xorg.lst doesn't report that keyboard model as available). Maybe I should ask #debian, please let me know whether this be the case.20:04
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DocScrutinizer05not maemo specific and not even sovable in a maemo environment since your debian differs20:14
DocScrutinizer05in maemo you don't have special symbols on hw kbd, we have a special vkbd for that. so see "vi's awesome keyboard maopping"20:16
DocScrutinizer05I pointed you to that a few days ago already20:16
Enrico_MenottiYes, ok, I am looking at that. There I found /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51.20:18
DocScrutinizer05>>I use the english layout. All (useful) symbols have been added to the keyboard rendering the blue+ctrl menu redundant.<<20:19
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DocScrutinizer05"rendering the blue+ctrl menu redundant" is exactly what you need since debian has no such vkbd menu on ctrl+blue20:30
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DocScrutinizer05and you probably couldn't even get it easily since it's maemo specific prolly closed blob and very window manager dependent20:32
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Enrico_MenottiOk, no problem, I will manage some way to remap the keyboard. Thanks.20:33
DocScrutinizer05but honestly I still fail to understand the purpose of this "get debian on N900" execise, particularly when a exactly equivalent community effort right now is making a "Devuan on N900"20:34
DocScrutinizer05I mean there's a reason why the community effort is based on devuan, not debian20:35
DocScrutinizer05and your learning exercises could help the devuan effort instead of being wasted into debian20:36
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Ok, maybe I could switch to Devuan. In particular if in this way I could integrate a bit with the community. I am playing with Debian just because when I started with that I did not know anything about Devuan.20:36
DocScrutinizer05devuan is basically just debian sand systemd cancer20:37
DocScrutinizer05plus explicit partnership and support with maemo community20:37
Enrico_MenottiThe only reason why I'm insisting with Debian now is that I already installed it on my spare computer...20:38
DocScrutinizer05migration to devuan is easy20:39
Enrico_MenottiHow to?20:39
DocScrutinizer05~#devuan migrate instructions20:40
infobot[#devuan migrate instructions]
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Enrico_MenottiOk, thank you. I see these instructions are specific to Debian, so I'm ready for that. I will read them carefully and probably migrate in a few days. Just a question: is Devuan available without a GUI? (My old spare computer is slow and memoryless, and I think I don't need a GUI for my purposes.)20:45
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KotCzarnythink of devuan as 'debian with one package removed'20:57
KotCzarny(grossly simplified)20:58
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ZungoEnrico_Menotti: if debian is available for your computer, then devuan is likely to be too22:40
DocScrutinizer05and just today devuan rolls out RC22:40
Zungoa bit late but on well22:40
Zungogood morning also(?)22:41
Zungoim not sure22:41
Enrico_MenottiZungo Yes, I have read the page with instructions on how to migrate. I will do that.22:41
Enrico_MenottiFor now, I'd like to try a few more things with Debian, just to learn. I'm still struggling with the keyboard. The std Italian one is working, but I'm unable to customise it. Strange.22:42
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