IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2016-11-30

*** L29Ah has joined #maemo00:00
*** DarioAlejandro has joined #maemo00:05
sixwheeledbeast>100k petitions against the snoopers charter.00:05
CatButtswhen am I going to get an n900 so I can draw cat tats at work without getting fired?00:15
*** DarioAlejandro has quit IRC00:23
*** DarioAlejandro has joined #maemo00:39
*** dafox has quit IRC00:48
*** Cor-Ai has quit IRC01:32
*** Pali has quit IRC02:04
*** herekun has quit IRC02:10
*** herekun has joined #maemo02:10
*** florian has quit IRC02:13
*** herekun has quit IRC02:17
*** N-Mi_ has joined #maemo02:18
*** herekun has joined #maemo02:19
*** Cor-Ai has joined #maemo02:26
*** ashley has quit IRC03:05
*** spiiroin_ has joined #maemo03:08
*** spiiroin has quit IRC03:11
*** N-Mi_ has quit IRC03:14
*** ashley has joined #maemo03:17
*** ashley has joined #maemo03:17
*** krnlyng has quit IRC03:24
*** krnlyng has joined #maemo03:37
*** jonwil has quit IRC05:08
*** lxp has joined #maemo06:01
*** lxp1 has quit IRC06:04
*** japa-fi_ has joined #maemo06:41
*** louisdk has joined #maemo06:55
*** louisdk has quit IRC07:11
*** spiiroin_ has quit IRC07:45
*** japa-fi_ has quit IRC07:48
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC07:54
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo07:54
*** odin_ has quit IRC08:36
*** spiiroin_ has joined #maemo08:37
*** ecloud is now known as ecloud_wfh08:55
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC09:01
*** dafox has joined #maemo09:24
*** dafox has quit IRC09:49
*** odin_ has joined #maemo09:52
brolin_empey“<DocScrutinizer05> when ISPs would care about their customers' security at all, they'd ship preconfigured DSL routers instead of running a TR-069 infra”10:02
brolin_empeyTelus, a DSL provider in Canada, provides to their DSL customers a crappy all-in-one box with DSL modem, Ethernet switch, Wireless LAN access point, and some useless-to-persons-like-me stuff for television/telephone service all integrated into one device.10:02
* brolin_empey wants SDSL instead of ADSL.10:03
brolin_empeyThe opposite of AM is FM, not PM.10:12
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo10:21
*** florian_kc is now known as florian10:21
*** geaaru has joined #maemo10:40
*** robink has quit IRC10:40
*** robink has joined #maemo10:43
*** spiiroin_ is now known as spiiroin10:48
*** handaxe has quit IRC11:23
*** jskarvad has joined #maemo11:36
*** jskarvad has quit IRC11:36
*** jskarvad has joined #maemo11:36
*** N-Mi_ has joined #maemo11:38
*** Guest65040 has quit IRC11:44
*** Ariadeno has joined #maemo11:46
*** Ariadeno is now known as Guest4627211:46
*** KotCzarny_ has joined #maemo12:18
*** infobot has quit IRC12:19
*** KotCzarny has quit IRC12:19
*** teotwaki has quit IRC12:19
*** silviof1 has quit IRC12:19
*** florian has quit IRC12:19
*** enyc has quit IRC12:19
*** ginggs has quit IRC12:19
*** timeless has quit IRC12:19
*** cpt_nemo has quit IRC12:19
*** drathir has quit IRC12:19
*** valdyn has quit IRC12:19
*** zama has quit IRC12:19
*** phlixi_ has joined #maemo12:20
*** enyc has joined #maemo12:20
*** drathir has joined #maemo12:20
*** zama has joined #maemo12:20
*** buZz_ has joined #maemo12:21
*** buZz_ is now known as Guest8344312:21
*** KotCzarny_ is now known as KotCzarny12:22
*** teotwaki has joined #maemo12:24
*** timeless has joined #maemo12:25
*** ginggs has joined #maemo12:25
*** buZz has quit IRC12:25
*** Guest83443 is now known as buZz12:25
*** phlixi has quit IRC12:25
*** valdyn has joined #maemo12:26
*** silviof1 has joined #maemo12:29
*** florian has joined #maemo12:32
*** cpt_nemo has joined #maemo12:36
*** spiiroin has quit IRC12:56
*** clopez has quit IRC13:05
*** clopez has joined #maemo13:08
*** spiiroin has joined #maemo13:24
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC13:30
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo13:31
*** spiiroin has quit IRC13:35
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo13:50
*** lxp has quit IRC13:52
*** handaxe has joined #maemo14:30
*** qwazix has quit IRC14:30
*** spiiroin has joined #maemo14:39
*** qwazix has joined #maemo14:51
*** qwazix has quit IRC14:58
*** qwazix has joined #maemo15:07
*** vectis3 has quit IRC15:40
*** Vajb has quit IRC15:45
*** Vajb has joined #maemo15:47
*** auenf has quit IRC15:58
*** auenf has joined #maemo16:06
*** auenfx4 has joined #maemo16:32
*** auenf has quit IRC16:33
*** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC16:54
warfareShort outage due to misbehaving board/nics in blade-b, we're trying one solution now, will try another tomorrow if this didn't work out.16:57
*** MetalGearSolid has joined #maemo17:01
*** princefakhan has quit IRC17:04
*** at1as has joined #maemo17:09
*** louisdk has joined #maemo17:11
*** DarioAlejandro has quit IRC17:21
*** florian has quit IRC17:27
*** troulouliou_div2 has joined #maemo18:00
*** louisdk has quit IRC18:29
*** at1as has quit IRC18:32
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo18:32
*** Pali has joined #maemo18:46
*** louisdk has joined #maemo18:55
*** troulouliou_div2 has quit IRC18:56
*** at1as has joined #maemo18:58
*** at1as has quit IRC19:10
*** dafox has joined #maemo19:23
*** jskarvad has quit IRC19:34
*** dafox has quit IRC19:48
*** vectis3 has joined #maemo19:48
*** vectis3 has quit IRC19:56
*** vectis3 has joined #maemo20:13
freemangordonPali: any idea what to replace maemo hal with on modern distros?20:33
Palino :-(20:33
Palimaemo apps needs hal20:33
freemangordonisn't udev a replacement?20:33
*** vectis3 has quit IRC20:33
Palino udev, is not replacement20:34
freemangordonI mean - in terms of functionality20:34
L29Ahwhat do you need hal for anyway?20:34
Paliudev is just subset of hal features20:34
L29Ahmost of its functionality are kludges above sysfs, afair20:34
Paliapi is incomaptible20:34
KotCzarnyudev is versatile20:34
L29Ahthat don't deserve to exist20:35
KotCzarnyyou can do whole lot of tricks20:35
*** Pali has quit IRC20:35
freemangordonKotCzarny: if you are knowledgeabe with udev, could you help with
freemangordonKotCzarny: this is the last thing I need to be able to build mce in devuan jessie20:37
KotCzarnyum, not that im knowledgeable, bur udev can exec arbitrary scropts/binaries20:37
freemangordonhmm, this is not the point here20:37
freemangordonhal calls callback functions when a device is added/removed etc20:37
KotCzarnywhat does it needs to do then?20:37
KotCzarnyyes, that's what udev does20:38
KotCzarnyit can react on events20:38
NotKitfreemangordon, hm, what about diffing mce with Mer version?20:39
KotCzarnyfor example this is my ghetto auto(u)mounter:
freemangordonNotKit: there is no mce in Mer afaik ;)20:40
KotCzarnyyou can add events by observing udevadm monitor20:40
freemangordonNotKit: mce in fremantle talks to hald_addon_bme20:41
KotCzarnyyou can have multiple conditions that needs to match (to differentiate betweeen similar events)20:41
freemangordonKotCzarny: that's great, but I am not sure it is the right time to learn a whole new API :)20:42
KotCzarnynah, think of it as a scripting language ;)20:42
KotCzarnyapi is too big wor20:42
KotCzarnybut as i've said, it has ability to run arbitrary script depending on events, which means almost unlimited flexibility20:43
freemangordonKotCzarny: but I don;t want a script, but a daemon20:43
freemangordonlook at what the code ^^^ does20:44
freemangordonKotCzarny: what is the udev way of libhal_device_set_property_string?20:45
KotCzarnynever used hal, tbh20:46
freemangordonhmm, seems it will be easier to just build hal20:49
KotCzarny\not really, you want to port it to modern system20:49
freemangordonsure, but not now20:49
freemangordonh-d has higher priority imo20:50
KotCzarnytemporarily its fine20:50
KotCzarnybut for long term you should define functionality20:50
NotKitwill mce run without hald_addon_bme as if it had no data?20:50
*** vectis3 has joined #maemo20:50
freemangordonNotKit: sure20:50
KotCzarnyinstead of trying to relearn20:50
freemangordonNotKit: but I don;t wanna start striping functionality20:51
KotCzarnyas i understand, something should start on something?20:54
KotCzarnyor its bus similar to dbus?20:54
freemangordona daemon is started when a device with an "udi" is hotplugged, then this daemon receives events from hal20:55
freemangordonaor something similar20:55
*** vectis3 has quit IRC20:58
KotCzarnyif we dont have hal anymore, it should receive events other way21:02
KotCzarnyso there will be porting anyway21:02
freemangordonI'll disable mce battery module for now21:03
KotCzarnywhat communicates with mce?21:04
freemangordoneverything :)21:04
KotCzarnymight be good idea to reimplement whole shebang21:04
freemangordonfeel free to do it :)21:05
KotCzarnymaybe hal should be replaced with udev+dbus mixture21:05
KotCzarnyluckily we dont have systemd to worry about21:07
*** vectis3 has joined #maemo21:15
*** florian has joined #maemo21:22
*** geaaru has quit IRC21:25
spiiroinIIRC mce does not actually use the "regular hald battery" properties. there is some even older dbus signaling api that hald-addon-bme just to cater mce's needs21:26
*** louisdk has quit IRC21:26
spiiroinand it should not be that difficult to mod the mce battery plugin to use whatever battery sources you have available21:27
freemangordonspiiroin: correct21:29
freemangordonI just need to find an upstream package that monitors battery/charger and provides dbus interface21:29
freemangordonany idea?21:30
KotCzarny /sys/ interface?21:31
NotKitfreemangordon, why not use sysfs?21:31
freemangordonNotKit: from mce?21:31
freemangordonI'd rather not, as there are more plugins that need to monitor the battery/charger status21:31
freemangordonso it is better to have an unified backend that provides dbus interface21:32
KotCzarnyfmg, /sys/ interface is standard and good idea21:32
spiiroinfor upower there is a plugin in mer mce. the datapipes involved are most likely still the same -> could be used21:32
KotCzarnyon thinkpads i have /sys/ interface, on allwinner i have /sys/ interface21:32
freemangordonspiiroin: yep, saw that, thus upower21:34
freemangordonbattery applet should be tweaked as well, but thats another story21:34
*** vectis3 has quit IRC21:34
freemangordonif it comes to it, then we aleady have working maemo :)21:35
spiirointhe little mce needs is catered by: charger connected, battery percentage (led & power save mode triggering)21:35
freemangordonand request_charger_status21:36
freemangordonhmm, I'd rather replace hald_addon_bme with a daemon that talks to upower and implements bme interface21:38
spiirointhat might be just due to that legacy^N dbus interface (mce could ask bme & co to resend battery signals it might have missed... which then caused problems for ui side on some circumstances)21:39
freemangordonthat way no changes in mce and the other thing that need bme dbus iface will be needed21:39
*** pagurus has joined #maemo21:39
freemangordonspiiroin: looking at the code, it is used on init, to get the entry conditions21:40
spiiroinfreemangordon: yeah, bme starts before mce -> the signals could have gone already21:40
spiiroinside effect that needed some patching somewhere in ui was: restart mce in suitable charging state -> ui sees repeated signaling21:41
freemangordonwhich is not that bad, given that we are supposed to start services asynchronously21:41
spiiroinsure, but the api is stupid; ask values -> global re-broadcast21:42
freemangordonis it?21:42
* freemangordon checks21:42
spiiroinyes, luckily nobody but mce was listening to those anymore - problem solved21:42
freemangordoniirc battery applet plugin is listening, but I might be wrong21:43
*** pagurus has quit IRC21:43
spiiroinbut that might/should be the hal props?21:43
spiiroini.e. different set of signals from what mce is listening to21:44
spiiroinI could be wrong / mix devices though - it has been a while21:44
freemangordonit is not that important21:45
freemangordonanyway it is not going to be used21:45
spiiroinwell, if the hald is gone -> I'd just make mce use some/any more up to date source21:46
freemangordonor rather - it will be used, but I see no problem in broadcasting of the status, so everybody on the party to have common data21:46
freemangordonspiiroin: isn't it better to have a daemon that talks to whatever backend seems appropriate implementing bme interface?21:47
freemangordonno changes in mce will be needed - we can keep common sources with CSSU21:47
*** vectis3 has joined #maemo21:48
freemangordonhmm, seem slibupower is supported in all modern distros21:49
freemangordonok, solution found, needs some coding :)21:50
spiiroinfreemangordon: sure, common api is always good; but I would not start by definiing it as "needs to be bme signal compatible"21:50
freemangordonspiiroin: why to change interface?21:50
freemangordonI mean - unless there is a need?21:51
freemangordonThere is lots more stuff to be done first - we talk for porting the whole hildon stack to gtk321:51
freemangordonsure, if there were 10 fulltime devs eager to work - np, we can change the interfaces every week :)21:52
spiiroinwhichever is less work - migrating to new hopefully standard api, or attempting to keep old api alive21:52
freemangordonspiiroin: oh, I aim for both21:53
spiiroinso did hald-addon-bme ;-)21:53
spiiroinwarts and all. even signal sending order was carved in stone21:53
freemangordonwell, it is not interface's fault that hal was deprecated :)21:54
freemangordonmaybe this should be left undecided for now21:55
freemangordonanyway I am not going to write that daemon today21:55
freemangordoncould be that KotCzarny is right and we should deal directly with /sys21:55
freemangordonhoping that /sys/class/power_supply ABI is finally stable21:56
*** pagurus has joined #maemo21:58
* freemangordon wishes more devs to join the effort :)21:59
KotCzarnyfmg: im hacking at something else atm22:00
freemangordonspiiroin: BTW, in case you've missed it, I was able to run cordia h-d on allwinner tablet22:00
KotCzarnyfmg: you should be saying 'on mainline linux tablet'22:00
freemangordonwell, yeah, on allwinner tablet running devuan jessie22:01
freemangordonwith mainline kernal, GPU and WIFI drivers are out-of-tree22:01
KotCzarnyunfortunatelly, be it x86 or arm, 3d accel is usually blobbed :/22:02
freemangordonKotCzarny: however, cordia h-d was just a POC, it has too much functionality stripped for my taste22:02
freemangordonwell, better than nothing22:02
KotCzarnystarting point22:02
KotCzarnyadding pieces back, one by one22:03
KotCzarnymaybe even stick to gtk2 for now?22:03
freemangordonI meant - having 3d accell blobbed is better than nothing22:03
*** pagurus has quit IRC22:03
NotKitKotCzarny, on Atom tablets, 3D accel is open-source, but otherwise kernel support is still limited22:03
freemangordonwell, android808 wants gtk3, and he is half of the work force ;)22:04
freemangordonalso I don;t see gtk2->gtk3 as being that much problematic, at least for now22:05
freemangordongtk2 would mean clutter 0.8 iiuc22:05
freemangordonso yet another deprecated library22:06
*** pagurus has joined #maemo22:06
*** vectis3 has quit IRC22:06
*** pagurus has quit IRC22:07
*** Cor-Ai has quit IRC22:08
*** pagurus has joined #maemo22:08
*** Cor-Ai has joined #maemo22:10
*** dafox has joined #maemo22:14
*** vectis3 has joined #maemo22:24
*** fishbulb has joined #maemo23:14
fishbulbwill that neo 900 ever have whatsapp or other things that most people use?23:14
fishbulbis it possible to buy a development license for whatsapp or something like that23:15
fishbulbbetween my tablet that's faster than most phones and this "phone" I'm still not willing to switch to android without at bare minimum a qwerty keyboard23:16
*** till[m] has quit IRC23:19
*** LauRoman has quit IRC23:45
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo23:46
*** dafox has quit IRC23:48
*** dafox has joined #maemo23:52
*** peterleinchen has joined #maemo23:55

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!