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| Oksana | Fun morning... Picked up 200g of Duratech 0.7mm tin-copper solder (aka lead-free), did not pick up no-clean rosin flux (1. paste, not liquid; 2. not-corrosive, or it says so, but acidity not mentioned), did not pick up no-clean pen-with-flux (1. flux not described, except for being flammable; 2. relatively thick, push-in tip, does not look like thin enough) | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | lead-free solder? ohmy | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no-clean & rosin is not exactly simple to find, also I dunno why yoz would want rosin flux | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you* | 03:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | rosin means there will be rosin residue on PCB, which usually means you want to clean the PCB | 03:52 |
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| Oksana | Just was looking for no-clean flux. They didn't have exactly much choice of flux. One of them was rosin no-clean paste flux, another of them was flammable-unknown liquid flux inside flux pen, and there was something called solder paste (tin, silver, copper) in a syringe | 04:02 |
| Oksana | They did have lead solder, too, but lead does not sound health-friendly | 04:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you want standard 60/40 or 63/37 Sn/Pb solder, with multicore flux, thin | 04:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you shouldn't inhale the fumes, no matter whether Pb solder or RoHS solder, those are mildly toxic. Other than that use good old lead solder and wash your hands after work | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly starting with lead free solder to learn soldering isn't a wise decision | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lead free solder is 5 times as cumbersome | 04:25 |
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| Oksana | Okay, Tin-Copper solder is cumbersome (partially because of higher melting temperature). Doesn't have flux core, also (haven't seen any flux-core solder here). 0.7mm (not 1mm), they had only two choices in thickness. | Tin-based solders readily dissolve gold, sounds unpleasant, but not particularly relevant for microUSB. /relevant for testing pads, though/ | 04:49 |
| Oksana | The two principal types of flux are acid flux, used for metal mending and plumbing, and rosin flux, used in electronics. Due to concerns over atmospheric pollution and hazardous waste disposal, the electronics industry has been gradually shifting from rosin flux to water-soluble flux, which can be removed with deionized water and detergent, instead of hydrocarbon solvents. | 04:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ((Tin-based solders readily dissolve gold)) the nature of doing a proper solder joint | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tin-based solder also dissolves copper, forming bronze | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it's exactly this forming of alloys that makes the solder jount | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno where from that second post origins, sounds like a quote | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's inconsistent in itself, since rosin isn't water solzble | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and there are even no-clean fluxes that don'T need any cleaning since they either evaporate over time (no-residue) or the residues are negligible. Those contain organic substances and often (metal)salts but usually no rosin / resin | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually the exact formulation of high quality no-clean flux usually is a company asset secret | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | solder paste is exactly what the name says: solder (tiny balls of it) in a paste consisting of flux. All this and the above is discussed in detail in the three eevblog YT videos I linked you to | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | solder paste is used for reflow mounting of components. Would be mad useful for the USB jack since you could solder it merely with hot air, without even touching the pins to solder down | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need to clean the pads thoroughly for that, so they are absolutely flush surface, no solder bumps on them. Use desolder wick and soldering iron (with flux! :-D ) for the cleaning | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then apply a tiny(!) amount of solder paste, just enough so all pins sit in a solderpaste bed on their pads, then reflow with hot air | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you use too much solderpaste, you'll get shorts between pins just like with using too much solder wire | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again see YT EEVBLOG videos | 05:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ((The two principal types of flux)) is nevertheless sort of correct - to this point: there's acid based flux of various kinds (liquid mere HCl, solder honey, "welding paste" aka solder cream) used for welding, plumbing etc. And there are several variants of electronic flux. Neither of both will work the faintest in the opposite domain, electronic flux is at best way to expensive for plumbing, and plumbing flux most certainly will damage | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your electronic components and PCB beyond all repair (figure HCl) | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (dissolves gold) yet all high quality PCB are completely gold plated on all pads, and all are soldered with tin based solder | 05:53 |
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| Oksana | >> sounds like a quote << Source: Wikipedia >> it's inconsistent in itself, since rosin isn't water soluble << They mean the switch from rosin-based flux to these secretive organic fluxes, I guess >> solder paste << well, do not know what kind of flux is in here. Tin-Silver-Copper does sound nicer than Tin-Copper. | 05:58 |
| Oksana | >> YT << Should movgrab them, makes for easier watching /I hope/ >> hot air << local makerspace is not open yet >> when you use too much solderpaste, you'll get shorts << sounds obvious... what to do if the shorts happen? clean the pads thoroughly again? | 05:58 |
| Oksana | >> dissolves gold << I just worry that if something is soldered to gold-plated pad, then de-soldered, the gold goes away with old solder, does it mean the pad would have to be gold-plated again? | 05:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | basically you have gold plating to avouid the problems of either black copper which oxidizes, or tin plating which isn't flat | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and also oxidizes | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and PCB are basically not made to suffer multiple soldering on same pad. When you rework a PCB, gold plating is your least problem | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((what to do if the shorts happen? clean the pads thoroughly again?)) yes, unless you can wipe out the shorts with your soldering iron | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the latter is easy when you can get to the solder spots with your iron. With USB jack this is a tad difficult to accomplish as you know | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (also covered in the EEVblog videos btw) | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((>> solder paste << well, do not know what kind of flux is in here)) don't worry about the type of flux in solderpaste, that's even more secret that ordinary good flux. However you may safely assume it's suited for the purpose of solderpaste, which is electronics SMT mounting | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that stuff is terribly hygroscopic, so you need to store it in fridge and even then it only lasts 6 to max 12 months | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can use it longer for simple solder tasks where a good bit of water vapor escaping doesn't matter | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which it would e.g. for BGA chips etc | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and even worse for large pads like LGA | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you get so called voids there | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically bubbles in the solder | 06:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: solder paste: https://youtu.be/b9FC9fAlfQE?t=1560 | 07:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | clean out shorts: https://youtu.be/b9FC9fAlfQE?t=1278 (or use solder wick and flux, if you can't just wipe the short out) | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when using solderpaste for USBfix, you got the advantage that there are 4 relatively large mech support 'pins' that will stick in the solderpaste to fix the jack in place. Nevertheless you need to be ultracareful to correctly adjust the placement and then not accidentally move the component between adjustment ans got air reflow. Also don't use too high airflow for hot air or you simply will blow the component away | 07:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *and hot air* | 07:15 |
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| Oksana | >> need to store it in fridge and even then it only lasts 6 to max 12 months << Doesn't look like shop stores it in the fridge. Anyway, do they have "best before" printed on them? Definitely should check it. Hot air and solder flux sound like something to be found at makerspace, and it will open a week later at best, so not going to hurry with getting solder paste. | 07:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ((they have "best before" printed on them?)) should, yes. 6 months is after opening the package. Closed it lasts a tad longer | 07:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | also as long as not opened yet, it seems it's tolerable to store outside of fridge | 07:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I also wonder if that stuff doesn't last longer when you store in in a jam jar together with an aggressive desiccant | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NB you must not freeze solder paste | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when there's simply no humidity at all in the air surrounding the solder paste container, how could it possibly absorb any humidity? | 07:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vacuum however is prolly also no solution since that might make the liquids in the paste evaporate and paste dry out | 07:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | pali: freemangordon: https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/694062/fd3edb04f5a5f2a8/ | 08:47 |
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| Ras_Older | I hope #maemo people weren't in Nizza today :C | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | train? | 09:12 |
| Ras_Older | There has been a terror attack. | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh shit | 09:13 |
| Ras_Older | http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/14/truck-crashes-bastille-day-crowd-nice-france/ | 09:13 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 hopes for the day when TV and newspapers limit reports about terror to 10 min resp 0.5 pages per day. No other way to stop that shit than to ignore it | 13:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't mean authorities should ignore it, just that the whole purpose of terror is... terror, read fear and panic. And mass media are a vital part in achieving that effect | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when I hear politicans' statements "unbelievable, terrible, we're so hurt, this must end" and so on, and those statements sent in infinite loop via TV all day long, I can see terrorists highfiving each other and feeling they had another great success. They achieved exactly what they hoped for. PLEASE stop helping terrorists by excessive focus on their attacks in mass media | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | compare: mass collision on highway, 30 fatalities, 120 injuries. Reports: one day 2h, then nothing | 13:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or a real live example, very obvious: http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/zugunglueck-italien-103.html 27 fatalities, it doesn't even show up in TV news anymore, and not a single politician assures Italy "we are at your side in our united fight against >technical defects and/or flawed security policies in public transport<" | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the stone age jerk idiocy of striking back when somebody considered weaker hits you, but trying to ignore all bad things you suffer possibly caused by yourself | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and to multiply shock and awe, TV replays all reports of former terror attacks of the last 18+ months. Ohmy! | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno who's worse, terrorists or TV | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure they are the perfect team | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the icing on the cace are those dumbasses who produce shit like "terror is not acceptable!" and "say no to terror" - I mean, do you *really* need to say that? | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for telling me, I almost thought terror was smart and fine | 13:35 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: http://i.imgur.com/yBfGymy.jpg | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err? | 13:40 |
| kerio | #nice | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what do you think i'm talking about? | 13:40 |
| kerio | http://i.imgur.com/NayzmJH.png | 13:41 |
| kerio | and yeah it's kinda stupid | 13:41 |
| kerio | i mean, i think that all countries have had their fair share of nutjobs driving | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, for sure | 13:42 |
| kerio | see for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZHathcQR8k | 13:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's particularly typical how they already agreed on that being a Islamist terror act, not knowing anything about motives and background | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mass media and politicians, my ass | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course a headline "TERROR ATTACK!" sells better than "Terrible accident, background unclear yet" | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the latter would serve us better, long term, nevertheless | 13:48 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: I thinking | 13:49 |
| jon_y | this might be a way to completely work around terror | 13:50 |
| jon_y | by simply ignoring it | 13:50 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: isis might get demotivated when nobody even remembers what it did or stood for :) | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, since terrorists who can go on to do e.g. internet propaganda are "more valuable" for any terror organization that terrorists dying in a terror attack that nobody even notices | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 13:52 |
| jon_y | *isis bombs airport and claims responsibility* | 13:53 |
| jon_y | media says | 13:53 |
| jon_y | "naw, its just a gas leak, nothing suspicious at all" | 13:53 |
| jon_y | "nope, no terrorists here" | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think spreading lies helps. But simply mentioning it on a sidenote, like "last week another terror act failed, since terrorists only killed 2 people while 5 of them died during the attack. This happened at airport. The damages from the incident will be fixed in two weeks" PERIOD, topic closed | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or "another idiot caused airplane delays, by assassinating himself next to terminal C. We're sorry for the inconvenience, businessback to narmal in 3 days" | 13:57 |
| jon_y | I wouldn't be surprised they might completely suppress the news | 13:57 |
| jon_y | "nope, nothing happen, get back in line citizen" | 13:57 |
| jon_y | can't fear what you don't know even exist | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this will inevitably cause massive recoil since you never can hide news, and you trying to do so are new news of their own means | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this might work in russia, china or north korea | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or turkey | 13:59 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: true | 13:59 |
| jon_y | twitter forced the media to reveal the new years incident in Cologne | 14:00 |
| jon_y | but mostly because twits do not go through review and approvals | 14:00 |
| jon_y | what the media could do is disseminate disinformation | 14:02 |
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| jon_y | "There were no explosions. Rumors were spread by irresponsible parties attempting to disturb the peace" | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't get me wrong, I'm feeling sorry for the 80+ (not 30) fatalities in Nice. But I'm honestly not worried at all about my own life, nor am I interested in hearing about the event all day long | 14:03 |
| jon_y | and then round up everyone who says otherwise quietly | 14:03 |
| jon_y | I'm jaded about the news media in general | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apropos "explosion", one "eye witness" already claimed in TV interview there was an explosion in context of the Nice incident | 14:04 |
| jon_y | I have already seen a news report blaming Pokemon Go | 14:05 |
| jon_y | probably got retracted by now | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL, that sounds scaringly plausible | 14:05 |
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| jon_y | the news media being news media, not sure what is true anymore | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WOOOOOW after 3 hours a reporter in Paris has the brains to say the obvious: "it's still unclear *if* it was a terror attack, or simply some asshole going nuts. No links to terrorism or islamism were found so far" | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hollande: >>France won't stop fight against terrorism<< Valls: >>terrorsts don't achieve their goals, France won't step back<< You fools! The terrorists already achieved their goals, you just explicitly confirmed that, in saying stuff like this and in what you said and what you plan to do | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and who started that whole mess? George DoubleWho Bush, with his idiotic Iraq war | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | God save America and the whole world when that Donald will be next president | 14:27 |
| jon_y | no sense crying over spilled milk, what is France going to do about the now? | 14:27 |
| jon_y | build a wall :) | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hope France is going to do the right thing. Get over it and go on | 14:28 |
| jon_y | oh well, at least Donald isn't a warmonger | 14:28 |
| jon_y | now the other candidate | 14:28 |
| jon_y | is a warmonger | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | have nail bands on public meeting areas to stop cars | 14:28 |
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| jon_y | modern cheavoux de frisse | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the other candidate? Hillary? | 14:30 |
| jon_y | yeah | 14:30 |
| jon_y | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheval_de_frise | 14:30 |
| jon_y | she wants to go bomb some more | 14:30 |
| jon_y | and possibly drag Russia into a proxy war | 14:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | possible, tbh I haven't heard much of her program yet# | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Trump however is completely nuts and unpredictable. Somebody stating he will pay the lawer and trial costs for those of his fans who go bash up some opponents... go figure | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or did he say "shoot them"? | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | In Germany he'd do time in jail just for this statement | 14:35 |
| jon_y | well, American free speech laws sure are different | 14:36 |
| jon_y | then again, he never explicitly condoned violence, so you can't nail him for incitement | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik he did | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and re war with Russia I think he's also not shy | 14:37 |
| jon_y | he already said he's willing to work with russia to calm down the middle east | 14:38 |
| jon_y | I get the feeling Putin and him respect each other | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, both nuts | 14:39 |
| jon_y | at this point, everyone is nuts :) | 14:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL. Siva David: "We shall sit on the baby, or something" | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://tonylovesziva.tumblr.com/image/14115122875 | 15:32 |
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| KotCzarny | problem is, media is dismissing the nationality/connections of the attackers in case they are muslim etc | 16:22 |
| KotCzarny | so its the other way round, its already hiding under the carpet | 16:23 |
| jon_y | it breeds rumors, spreading like wildfire | 16:26 |
| jon_y | are you going to do the stasi thing and imprison people for spreading rumors? | 16:27 |
| jon_y | and then everything was justified as hatespeech, the world is mad | 16:28 |
| jon_y | maybe one day, everyone will be guilty of something | 16:29 |
| jon_y | on a secret national dirt list | 16:30 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 points at own nick | 16:33 | |
| jon_y | yep, you're on the list somewhere :) | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | F.Z. explained that Joe's Garage was about the concept that everybody needs to get guilty of something, so equality in society is preserved | 16:34 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 ... the white zone is for loading and unloading only ... if you have to load or unload, go to the white zone ... | 16:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3cu8sDa90Y | 16:38 |
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| zGrr | terror is nothing new to europe. | 16:48 |
| L29Ah | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/07/is-it-ok-to-send-a-police-robot-to-deliver-a-bomb-to-kill-an-active-shooter/ | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/The_Central_Scrutinizer | 16:48 |
| zGrr | we just had 25+ relatively quiet years. | 16:49 |
| jon_y | the Goliath crawling bomb makes a come back :) | 16:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the terror 25+ years ago was from an incredibly small group of european weirdos who actually had a however screwed society change perspective and usually a very clear target of upper class resp government members. They hoped for something 'realistic': change the society. - Nowadays terrorism became a sport for 1000s of religious fanatics that really have no concept at all (if you dismiss the bullshit of "kill all infidels" and that 70 | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | virgins idiocy, as well as the sinister motivations of the spin doctors who drafted that pile of nonsense | 17:19 |
| jon_y | as far as I can see, they're exporting angry unemployed males | 17:20 |
| jon_y | hopefully they bother the west rather than them :) | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think they even RE-export them | 17:20 |
| KotCzarny | jon_y: nope. ban islam (its a religion of hate (of anyone who isnt muslim)), make immigrants assimilate to the culture they are coming to | 17:21 |
| KotCzarny | im not against people, im against hate | 17:21 |
| jon_y | that is one way | 17:21 |
| KotCzarny | one and only way | 17:21 |
| jon_y | whats a young man adrift at life to do? | 17:22 |
| jon_y | join a cause! | 17:22 |
| KotCzarny | islam is not a peaceful religion, its 'join us or die' | 17:22 |
| jon_y | now pick a cause that conforms to your world view :) | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy, back when we smoked grass and made love | 17:22 |
| KotCzarny | and thats not just a speach figure, they kill people (youtube is full of brutal beheadings etc) | 17:23 |
| jon_y | perhaps humanity is not meant to be peaceful, the last decades were free from major wars | 17:23 |
| jon_y | a young man's gotta make something of himself or die trying | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please understand that this has NOTHING, *absolutely* ZILCH to do with religion | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | still, western minds are full of lies, so they are not innocent | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | dont get me wrong | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | but at least they dont kill you outright | 17:25 |
| KotCzarny | (for not falling down to pray to illusionary friends) | 17:25 |
| jon_y | thats because the west has humanism | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try burglaring or breaking my door! | 17:25 |
| jon_y | nobody else do humanism | 17:26 |
| KotCzarny | jon_y: buddism? | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll learn about "not going to kil you outright" | 17:26 |
| jon_y | KotCzarny: how common is Buddhism? | 17:26 |
| KotCzarny | jon_y: not common in the west, common in the east | 17:26 |
| jon_y | not really common in the East either | 17:26 |
| jon_y | not anymore anyway | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly could we stop discussing religions? | 17:27 |
| jon_y | sure | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as if ISIS was about religion | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could use any other nonsensical distinction criterion to create a "we vs them" and achieve exactly the same effect | 17:29 |
| jon_y | hugs and rainbows aren't helping | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are white and we are green, they read from right to left and whe top down | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are men err pigs and we are women | 17:30 |
| jon_y | hmm | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are rich and we are poor | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I could go on for hours | 17:31 |
| jon_y | nah, too politically incorrect | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for ISIS alike idiot clubs? nothing is faintly politically incorrect enough for those | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | imagine the vacuum in their skulls! | 17:32 |
| KotCzarny | say what you want, they massacre people | 17:33 |
| jon_y | tbh, I'm starting to see it in KotCzarny's way | 17:33 |
| KotCzarny | and thats what counts | 17:33 |
| KotCzarny | not all talkytalky in the western media | 17:33 |
| jon_y | its not hate or anything | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sure that hurts so terribly you need really strong 'medicine' to silence that pain | 17:33 |
| jon_y | just a chore, to clean house | 17:33 |
| jon_y | something to keep the peace perhaps, even for awhile | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 17:34 |
| KotCzarny | ban islam,its bad | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what the F are you talking about? | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you are bad | 17:34 |
| KotCzarny | much worse than scientology | 17:35 |
| KotCzarny | though those folks arent angels either | 17:35 |
| jon_y | its simply something politically incorrect | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ban *all* religions, they are all identically nonsensical | 17:35 |
| KotCzarny | but scale is different | 17:35 |
| KotCzarny | x | 17:35 |
| KotCzarny | people are spiritual, for some reason, religions just abuse it | 17:35 |
| zGrr | baning religion never worked. | 17:36 |
| KotCzarny | zgrr: germany banned scientology | 17:36 |
| zGrr | it made things far worse. | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a spiritual person will understand that this is a thing that happens in their mind and only there, and nobody else has a saying | 17:36 |
| zGrr | it was tried many times in 20th century. | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those 'religious' people are just lazy | 17:37 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 17:37 |
| KotCzarny | but still, religions abuse people | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or stupid, or both | 17:38 |
| zGrr | there are terror groups. history shows that there were typicaly foreign governments behind them. | 17:38 |
| zGrr | supplying terrorists with weapon, money and logistics. | 17:38 |
| zGrr | i believe it is the same this time. | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zGrr: you can't ban religion, just like other drugs. But you don't need to legalize it | 17:39 |
| joga | the stupid and hopeless will be exploited by evil and hopeless | 17:39 |
| zGrr | soviet union was the major supporter of terror. everywhere - europe, middle east, asia. | 17:39 |
| zGrr | when soviet union collapsed things got quiet. | 17:40 |
| zGrr | ... for the time being. | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | until Putine (SIC) invented new big Russia | 17:40 |
| zGrr | he could be behind at least some of it. there are also other states supporting terrorists. | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but Al Qaida and ISIS and the other associated shit clearly got instantiated by doubleWho's Iraq war | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | idiocy par excellance | 17:42 |
| zGrr | do you remember attacks in cologne? | 17:42 |
| zGrr | some people say, it was organized by syrian services and executed by shabiha. | 17:43 |
| zGrr | and it doesnt seem that unlikely. | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what for? to stop immigration or what? | 17:43 |
| zGrr | finnish police searched syrian refugees and they found derogatory german phrases transliterated in arabic alphabet. | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when this was a TLA action, it was a pretty stupid one | 17:44 |
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| zGrr | it worked. | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again, what for? | 17:45 |
| zGrr | created chaos and fear. | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy | 17:45 |
| zGrr | what was stupid, was massive german coverup of events. | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | conspiracy theory | 17:46 |
| zGrr | some serious counterinteligence is necessary. | 17:46 |
| zGrr | yes, it is conspiracy theory. | 17:46 |
| zGrr | but if you have thousands of people attacking plus some events in other cities and countries at the same time, it implies some coordination. | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those events clearly were organized and coordinated. But I dare to say it's not at all easy to spot the culprits | 17:48 |
| zGrr | and if there is coordination, there must be conspiracy of some sort by definition. | 17:48 |
| zGrr | anyway. | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd not even rule out German Geheimdienst, or Pegida | 17:49 |
| zGrr | i dont see refugees as economic problem. | 17:49 |
| zGrr | it is psychoogical problem. | 17:49 |
| zGrr | and europe doesnt have refugee policy. | 17:49 |
| zGrr | if it has, it is incredibly stupid one. | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you remember the track of refugees trying to cross border from Greece direction northwest. They all had fliers counterfeit signed "Norbert Bluem" iirc. Hardly it was a secret service activity, but either left idiots or even right idiots | 17:50 |
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| zGrr | europe has big problem of islamic insurgency among european muslims | 17:51 |
| zGrr | but it can be worked out. | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm all on same page with you that Europe has no plan and policy for immigration, neither recent nor long term. And Bangladesh will take another 10 to 20 years until finally flooded by rising seas | 17:52 |
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| zGrr | if the governments continue to do nothing it will only get worse and you are going to have massive attacks against minorities and will create huge problems with right-wing insurgency. | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 17:53 |
| zGrr | possibly bigger problem with more serious implications for the continent than islamic terrorism itself. | 17:54 |
| zGrr | attack in nice was failure of the police. | 17:54 |
| zGrr | there could be far less victims if they implemented physical barriers preventing speeding car hiting the crowd. | 17:55 |
| zGrr | they have such preventive measures in the UK. | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (Bangladesh) then you don't have a 5 or 10 million refugees from Syria, you have a 160 Million that *must* find a new place to literally stand the ground | 17:56 |
| zGrr | they have even software and geodatabase to set the bariers up for mass events. | 17:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (barriers) what I said a 6h ago | 17:57 |
| zGrr | it does not prevent car hitting the crowd, but it prevents from hitting with such speed and devastation. | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nail bands | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | roll across street in seconds | 17:58 |
| zGrr | i dont know, but they have efective solutions | 17:58 |
| joga | you can never really stop someone from causing harm no matter the barriers you set up | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 17:58 |
| joga | would be more effective removing the cause to do harm, but heh, easier said than done with all the conflicts and hate around the world | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you also hardly can stop anybody from kicking somebody in the head | 17:59 |
| zGrr | but it will limit the harm dramatically. there would be far less victims. | 17:59 |
| joga | nah then they would just steal a nuke next | 17:59 |
| joga | desperate people will use desperate measures anyway, if needed | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry that's nonsense | 18:00 |
| joga | which? | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that guy was prolly a single person going nuts, and he hardly could steal a tank, not to think of a nuklear weapon | 18:01 |
| joga | yeah, him, sure | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he wouldn't have known what to do with one when you delivered it to his home | 18:01 |
| zGrr | whatever. they should start preparations how to respond to massive muslim insurgency. | 18:01 |
| joga | but should all countries go into super defense mode, the people who want to do harm would up their game somehow | 18:02 |
| zGrr | which is increasingly possible. | 18:02 |
| KotCzarny | still, eu wants to have nannynazi state similar to the one in us, and spreading fear is one way to authorize it | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again, don't call thoise idiots muslims, they aren't | 18:02 |
| joga | they're crazy and mislead | 18:02 |
| KotCzarny | they use islam as a tool | 18:02 |
| KotCzarny | and they get their own idiots to use | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they are as much muslims as ku kluks klan is katholic | 18:03 |
| zGrr | it doesnt matter who they are. it is important to prevent them from doing too much harm. | 18:03 |
| KotCzarny | islam brainwashes their victims with fear of being cast out | 18:03 |
| joga | extremists are sickening no matter the crap they believe in | 18:03 |
| KotCzarny | so they will do what being told | 18:03 |
| joga | you mean like extremist christian sects? | 18:04 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 18:04 |
| KotCzarny | every extremism is bad | 18:04 |
| KotCzarny | and there are a lot of badness in the world | 18:04 |
| KotCzarny | and .eu is being actively stirred | 18:04 |
| KotCzarny | we will see when and what comes out of it | 18:04 |
| zGrr | worst terrorists are the governments. and you cant just stop the governments from doing harm to civilians in other countries. | 18:09 |
| zGrr | not that easily. | 18:09 |
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