IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2016-06-29

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freemangordonplease use that as a base when you decide to put rc5 on your repo00:44
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brolin_empeyKotCzarny: For entering numbers? :-P  Seriously, the row of digits above the top row of letters is not always a substitute for the digits on the numeric keypad because some things specifically use the keys on the numeric keypad, such as entering a character by entering its code point while holding AltGr or selecting the camera in a simulation of a vehicle, such as in (the) Microsoft Flight Simulator, or the script I have to control the camera in the third-10:13
brolin_empeyperson view in Quake III: Arena, or to have greater control of direction of movement, such as in SkiFree.10:13
KotCzarnywhat about wsad? :P10:13
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brolin_empeyKotCzarny: WASD is a substitute for the inverted-T arrangement of arrow keys, not a substitute for the numeric keypad.  WASD/inverted-T arrow keys allows only 90 degress of change of direction.  The numeric keypad allows 45 degrees.10:18
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KotCzarnyonly if you dont map qezxc too10:23
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brolin_empeyKotCzarny: A numeric keypad on a computer with an integrated hardware keyboard is kind of like rear side doors on a car: both things are useful but cannot easily be added later if you initially decide you do not need them.  Would you question my choice to replace my car with only 2 side doors with a car with 4 side doors if you personally do not use the rear side doors?  Yes, replacing the integrated keyboard on a notebook computer to add an integrated10:33
brolin_empeynumeric keypad may technically be possible if you care enough but buying the product whose designer intentionally removed a useful integrated hardware feature sends the wrong message.10:33
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KotCzarnyi only use it for gaming (roguelikes) and nothing else really10:35
KotCzarnyso its a matter of personal preference10:36
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brolin_empeyKotCzarny: Some applications use a hardwired keymap instead of loading keybindings from a file redd at runtime.10:37
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KotCzarnyin linux you can map any key to anything10:39
brolin_empeyKotCzarny: Anyway, you said that ThinkPads have an overlaid numeric keypad but I was discussing fanless notebook computers that have a proper integrated display.  The ThinkPad model you proposed that can run without a fan (X40?) has a TN AMLCD panel, not a proper AMLCD panel such as IPS or VA.10:42
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KotCzarnyyeah. but as i said, its a matter of personal preference, for me its just enough10:47
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L29Ahi love TN for its energy efficiency12:15
L29Ahtoo bad there aren't transflective displays for common laptops12:16
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kerioIPS \o/12:38
keriothe lcd panels that have colors that look good :312:43
KotCzarnyfor a console, occassional googling i can live with tn12:55
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Sicelore - battery issues. it did calibrate :) 12% gain. will see what happens in the current cycle13:23
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KotCzarnymanual or re14:53
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* Oksanaa doesn't know how to tell pkg-config that libasound does exist15:16
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L29AhOksana: /usr/lib/pkgconfig/alsa.pc15:24
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OksanaaL29Ah: Thank you! :-) It was a matter of installing libasound2-dev15:25
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erlehmannso my n900 does not recognize its modem anymore16:01
erlehmannwhat do16:01
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erlehmannso again16:06
Oksanaahot air or something?.. not sure16:06
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erlehmannmy n900 fails telephony forever ;_;16:06
Oksanaawell, if you have good enough wifi coverage, sip would be enough?16:06
Oksanaaor attack usb modem stick externally16:07
L29Ahi'd bake its motherboard in an oven, and bought a new one if it fails16:07
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Oksanaado take battery out first!16:08
L29Ahi afraid the usb connector will die tho16:08
erlehmannthe USB connector is fine.16:08
Oksanaaand I would not wish to microwave the camera16:08
erlehmannOksana, i need 2G / 3G coverage and telephony16:08
erlehmannL29Ah, do i have to bake? how long? can you give instructions?16:09
erlehmannit seems like a mechanical issue. the phone started to act up weird when it was very hot during the last few days.16:09
erlehmannand lost connection repeatedly16:09
erlehmanni remember the n900 of my ex gf did not boot properly during chaos communication camp as it was too hot.16:09
erlehmannthese phones really have a problem with temperatures16:09
OksanaaOuch... How much did bnf report? I have seen 46°C in the sun, and had no problems16:10
erlehmannwe found out later that my ex gf left her phone in the tent16:11
erlehmannif i recall correctly, DocScrutinizer05 flashed it repeatedly and it crashed minutes after booting several times16:12
erlehmannafter the camp it worked again, lol16:12
erlehmannso, heat16:12
erlehmannbut really it is temperature changes16:12
Oksanaabnf is neat app, which reads battery temperature as part of displaying battery status16:13
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erlehmannL29Ah, why do you think usb will fail in oven? extrapolate your onions.16:15
L29Aherlehmann: actually now i watched a couple of videos where ppl bake x86 motherboards and the plastic stuff stays intact16:16
L29Ahbut it still feels kinda risky16:16
erlehmannwhy bake at all?16:17
erlehmannif it became unstuck, couldn't i just, like, fix it with glue or springs or so?16:17
OksanaaVery long thread:
OksanaaReboot, reflash, try different celltowers, insert lots of paper...16:19
erlehmannit is surely a hardware error16:19
OksanaaDifferent solutions for different cases. And yes, insert lots of paper is spring-like "solution" for the problem16:20
L29Ahbecause baking can weld the cracks of the solder joints of varios smd components found on the motherboard16:21
L29Ahand afaik the modem is just a separate chip on the mb16:22
erlehmannthe point is it is not the sim card16:24
erlehmannbecause the error occurs even when the card is not in16:24
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OksanaaThe motherboard itself separated (partially) from modem-chip? Paper or hot air might help, either way16:29
* Oksanaa wishes there was a side by side comparison of pros and cons of hot-air and microwave-oven16:30
bencoh16:24 < erlehmann> because the error occurs even when the card is not in16:30
bencohwhat kind of "errors"?16:30
bencohyou mentioned telephony/connection thus far16:30
erlehmannerror is that on boot a popup comes that all telephony is disabled even emergency services calls16:30
erlehmannand then on start of maemo desktop the same comes up16:31
bencohthen how is it not related to modem?16:31
bencoh(and/or sim)16:31
erlehmannit is related to the modem, but not to the sim card16:31
erlehmannyou are supposed to be able to call emergency services even without a sim card16:31
bencohah, because even emergency calls are disabled, okay16:31
bencohcould still be the modem then16:31
erlehmannand i took it out and the error is the same16:31
erlehmannyes, that is what i assume16:32
erlehmannhow can i diagnose? is there logfile somewhere?16:32
bencohhmm .... with syslog installed and a reboot, maybe16:32
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infobotrumour has it, springfix is  and
infobot1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss16:39
DocScrutinizer05for baking you want to remove camera and domesheet16:40
OksanaaNtEd build dependencies so far: g++(-4.2), gcc(-4.2), gettext, libasound2-dev, libpango1.0-dev, libcairo2-dev, libgtk2.0-dev (versions are annoying)16:40
OksanaaCamera is fragile /never tried it personally, though/16:40
erlehmannthanks DocScrutinizer0516:43
erlehmannDocScrutinizer05, does it work reliably?16:43
DocScrutinizer05baking? no warranty of any kind. highly risky16:44
DocScrutinizer05springfix is reported to work for a few months usually16:45
DocScrutinizer05forget paper and the like#16:45
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erlehmannDocScrutinizer05, a few months would be nice.17:26
erlehmanni do not have much money. looking for a job currently.17:26
erlehmannon the off chance someone here knows someone …
erlehmannDocScrutinizer05, what would you suggest besides “source other n900 replacements from your friends who stopped using them” ?17:32
erlehmannin before neo90017:32
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erlehmannit really is so nice to have apt-get and x11 and stuff :/17:33
infobotfrom memory, tabletsdev is , (all defunct, thanks Nokia) or the nice site, or, or
DocScrutinizer05used N900 in good condition on ebay are ~50EUR17:33
_maniac_thank you kind infobot.17:34
infobotbitte, _maniac_17:34
_maniac_infobot: ~combined17:35
bencohDocScrutinizer05: actually I still dont find those on ebay17:35
infobotcombined is probably the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or
bencohhaven't checked for some time, but ....17:35
erlehmannmy ex gf has one and my brother has one.17:35
bencohin europe at least I dont see many for 50e17:35
erlehmannthe one from my brother has some charging problems17:35
bencoh(I bought mine 2.5y ago for 75 iirc)17:36
_maniac_well, rip. both links for latest 1.3.1 combined image are dead.17:36
bencohthose are mirrored17:36
erlehmann_maniac_, wait17:36
erlehmanni have17:36
_maniac_yeah, but mirrors that infobot gave me are dead.17:36
bencohhmm, maybe not this specific image version but still17:36
erlehmann_maniac_, bencoh
_maniac_I have RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin want to have 2011 one17:37
_maniac_ok, thank you erlehmann17:37
bencoh_maniac_: I dont think there is any difference if you use CSSU in the end17:37
erlehmanni will save it in the wayback machine now17:38
erlehmannhappy to help17:38
_maniac_bought n900 again after using featurephones for a year.17:38
_maniac_and I heard there are some certificate shenannigans that require that latest image.17:38
_maniac_(yeah, I am aware about setting date back to 2009 to overcome some of them)17:39
bencoh_maniac_: iirc those changes were backported to CSSU17:39
Siceloand actually were implemented in CSSU before Nokia released that image :)17:41
erlehmannDocScrutinizer05, can you tell the bot that ~combined is at ?17:43
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DocScrutinizer05~literal combined17:44
infobot"combined" is "the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or"17:44
DocScrutinizer05~combined is also
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay17:44
DocScrutinizer05~literal combined17:44
infobot"combined" is "the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or, or"17:44
erlehmannthanks obama!17:45
erlehmannDocScrutinizer05, why? because the web is a papyrus scroll of burning paper. we need to transcribe faster than it burns.17:45
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DocScrutinizer05well, I just did a rewrite on fireproof steel17:46
infobothmm... lazyflashing is
infobotcombined is, like, the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or, or
infobotfrom memory, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or, or
DocScrutinizer05ok, stll no truncation17:48
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erlehmannDocScrutinizer05, thank you for all your work. if we ever meet again, let me invite you to a drink or something. :)17:51
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DocScrutinizer05way more critical than the combined and vanilla files are mirrors of the Nikia base repos18:12
infobotwell, repos is "deb ./ ;; deb ./", or see, or see ~jrrepos18:13
DocScrutinizer05I'm feeling a tad reluctant to set up a mirror for those18:13
bencohthere are a few other mirrors already :)18:14
DocScrutinizer05yes, but as said above, they are more critical than the fiasco files of which there must be 4 dozen copies available in the internets18:15
DocScrutinizer05I guess eventually I have to learn how to set up a mirror18:17
bencohDocScrutinizer05: it has been archived by archive.org18:21
bencohthere a few public mirrors18:21
DocScrutinizer05the repo? hardly18:21
bencohyes they have :)18:21 has been, actually :)18:22
DocScrutinizer05URL or it didn't happen18:22
ceenei try to maintain one myself too18:30
ceenei need to setup https for that thing18:31
erlehmannpackages are signed or not?18:32
ceenewhy not?18:32
ceenethey are signed with an expired key18:33
erlehmanncan you re-sign them?18:33
ceenei don't know18:33
ceenei don't see the point, though18:33
bencohdont think we should18:35
bencohactually I wonder if there would be a difference if it was signed by an unknown key18:35
bencohif not then we have a real security issue18:35
bencohI hope it actually checks the sig even if key expired18:36
erlehmanncome on18:37
erlehmannif you would check a sig18:37
erlehmannwould you bother checking further if it expired?18:37
erlehmannthat's like efficiency 10118:37
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erlehmann(i have not looked up if it did)18:37
ceenewhat's the point of expired keys, anyhow?18:37
ceenei mean18:37
ceenewould you trust my mirror more or less if it were signed by me, who you don't know who i am with a valid signature?18:38
bencoherlehmann: what's "wrong" with an expired key?18:38
ceeneor would you trust it more being signed with nokia's expired key?18:38
bencohceene: the latter18:38
ceeneso do i18:38
bruce_lee\(^_^)/ @all, trust? nokia is now part of microsoft...18:39
erlehmannmicrosoft, who embed telemetry into your applications via their compiler18:39
bencohoh? that's funky18:39
KotCzarnygood times, community is more trusted than corpo ;)18:42
DocScrutinizer05anyway the key issue is a lost case, and nothing we could do18:43
DocScrutinizer05and yes, I think they signature is check(sum)ed even when the key is expired18:44
DocScrutinizer05if not, set your system time to 1970 ;-)18:45
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Siceloif while running `traceroute` command , the reply is "!C" .. what does this mean?19:50
Sicelocontext : i have n900 connected via vpn, as well as my home computer. computer can ssh into N900 without issue. but N900 cannot contact computer at all. no incoming firewall at the computer. traceroute on N900 stops with the above info19:52
xeloSicelo: from manpage:  "!C (precedence cutoff in effect"19:55
Siceloi did check man apge .. didn't see that  :)19:56
Siceloanyway, what does that even mean, haha19:56
xeloI have not the slightest idea19:56
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xeloPrecedence  Cutoff In Effect  Sent by a router  when receiving a datagram whose Precedence value (priority) is  lower than the minimum allowed for the network at that time.19:57
Sicelogetting more and more fancy :)19:58
xeloAre you sure you want to proceed? ;)19:58
Siceloi wouldn't mind too much if computer couldn't reach N900. i presently really need N900 -> PC to work20:00
xelodo you require the vpn?20:08
L29Ah16:30:01]* Oksanaa wishes there was a side by side comparison of pros and cons of hot-air and microwave-oven20:11
L29Ahi wasn't talking about a microwave oven20:11
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L29Ahand i'm quite sure it would kill the device20:11
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KotCzarnymicrowave oven? lol20:15
KotCzarnythat would be awesome ;)20:15
KotCzarnydont forget to grab it on camera ;)20:15
Siceloxelo: yes, i do20:17
xelois some fancy ssh-reverse tunneling possible?20:19
Siceloi might have to do that as a last resort (just there are a number of hosts/ports that i wished to access)20:20
KotCzarnyxelo: yes20:23
KotCzarny-L and -R20:23
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bencohSicelo: missing route, most probably, I'd say? :)22:38
bencohand/or mangled packet that pass through NAT when they shouldnt22:39
Siceloroute is there. ip route get IP shows that the networking is looking for it through the vpn interface22:40
bencohroutes both ways ?22:41
Sicelonot sure i understand you : PC => N900 works. N900 => PC doesn't22:42
bencohisn't PC behind NAT?22:43
Siceloboth N900 and PC are behind NAT22:43
bencohwhere does your vpn sits?22:43
Sicelovpn is on a public server that i can access from both N900 & PC. the connection establishes perfectly on both22:43
bencohPC running linux?22:44
bencoh(or any *nix)22:44
Siceloyes, of course22:45
bencohthen I'd check openvpn conf, then network/iptables conf on PC22:45
bencohopenvpn has a few fancy options22:45
Siceloi use exactly the same config on N900 and PC22:45
Sicelosame openvpn version too22:45
bencohserver conf22:46
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Sicelobencoh: yes, server config good too .. almost same as the clients22:52
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bencohwell there has to be something ... tcpdump on both sides ;)22:55
bencohdid you check iptables as well?22:55
Sicelothe iptables is confusing :p (server is not mine ... i just have root)23:02
Sicelotcpdump does not 'see' any packets coming in23:03
Sicelotraceroute has that !C thing which doesn't really help23:03
Sicelobut with the iptables, there's nothing specific "against" the PC's IP. since PC=>N900 works, i would assume it's reasonable to assume iptables isn't my problem23:05
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Sicelowut! just worked now .. nothing changed in config at all23:14
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Siceloand traceroute doesn't have that !c thing anymore.23:16
* Sicelo shrugs23:16
OksanaaL29Ah: Thank you, I must have been half-asleep to read "bake in an oven" as something related to microwave oven23:29
* Oksanaa wonders what "Unknown EABI object attribute 34" means23:30
OksanaaNtEd is beautiful, but more broken than navit's gtk gui23:37
* Oksanaa will have to get rid of functionality errors first, appearance second23:38
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OksanaaIt seems that there is alsa module snd_seq_midi missing?23:44
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