IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2016-05-08

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Siceloi know this is possibly a bad question in this chan :p00:27
Sicelois there something similar to `patchage` for pulseaudio? which can make connections between audio sinks and sources for you?00:27
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Linkandzeldais python 2.5 the only version i can use for maemo dev?16:24
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bencohwe have some higher versions in extras-devel, but ....16:41
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DocScrutinizer05random systemd bugreport: running a cronjob for user XY *creates* a stale symlink ~XY/.local/share/systemd/user16:55
DocScrutinizer05now figure this cronjob was a rsync job doing a sync of the user's homedir, where the user is only owning this shared dir and not supposed to ever log in interactively16:56
DocScrutinizer05WTF systemd??!!16:57
Siceloit would apppear that all distributions will go systemd eventually, except may be those designed particularly against it (e.g. Devuan)17:06
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KotCzarnyor where maintainers arent 'everyone is doing it so we must do it too'-drones17:15
KotCzarnybut keeping to 'do one thing, but do it perfect'17:15
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Sicelomaybe someone has to make a fork that gets the best bits of systemd, and the best of sysv :)17:25
KotCzarnyerm, and which are the 'best bits' ?17:30
KotCzarnyremember, if you simply want your os to boot quick, then disable unneeded services and enable parallel booting, or just use tux-on-ice (also known as swsusp2) it's that simple17:31
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KotCzarnyotherwise it's just overcomplicating things that are simple into abomination taking over your system17:32
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DocScrutinizer05aka Devuan17:49
DocScrutinizer05[2016-05-08 Sun 14:42:31] <nextime> it isn't us blocking systemd, is systemd blocking us to adopt it :)17:50
keriohow often are you booting your fucking computer that makes boot time such an issue17:51
keriomaybe you should work on the cause of your constant reboots17:51
keriolike the fact that you can't fucking restart dbus-daemon17:52
keriobecause otherwise you need to restart everything that uses it17:52
KotCzarnyi reboot my n900 usually after every few battery empty messages17:52
keriobtw can someone explain to me why it's so hard to get a tarball of an installed linux system17:55
KotCzarnybecause uboot?17:55
keriono no, an amd64 install17:55
KotCzarnyjust grab longsleep bare image17:56
* DocScrutinizer05 frowns at kerio and suspects he's talking to an invisible (to DocScrutinizer05) source17:57
kerioi'm talking to myself17:57
kerioi've been spoiled by freebsd17:57
DocScrutinizer05so lemme answer: *I* am booting my fscking computer maybe 2 to 3 times a year, and boot time is a total non-issue to me17:58
kerioDocScrutinizer05: indeed17:58
KotCzarnyahm, amd64, not arm64.17:58
keriolike, i understand that maybe it's a bit more of an issue for embedded17:58
DocScrutinizer05actually servers see reboots less frequently17:58
kerioservers aren't rebooted nearly often enough17:59
keriouptime is a measure of how unsure you are that everything will start up properly :>17:59
DocScrutinizer05hmm  up 44 days 15:43 - seems I has a kernel update, the only legitimate reason for a reboot18:00
keriobut still, is sync boot really much slower than the sort of async crap that upstart/systemd do, especially on a single-core machine?18:00
KotCzarnykerio: some startup scripts have sleep commands in them18:00
KotCzarnythats why its so slow on sync boot18:01
DocScrutinizer05I dunno, my sysv-init did async startup since ages18:01
DocScrutinizer05at least as option, which I never cared about18:01
DocScrutinizer05so I can't even tell if it been used or not18:01
kerioanyway, my question stands18:02
keriowhy can't i just download "the debian tarball" and unpack it in a directory to have a complete rootfs18:02
KotCzarnyalso, it seems that systemd is just a disease introduced as a cure-it-all pill18:02
DocScrutinizer05umm, you're sort of doing this for maemo18:02
KotCzarnykerio, because updates18:03
DocScrutinizer05as well as a huge number of other embedded devices18:03
KotCzarnyand because netinstall18:03
KotCzarnyalso because modularity18:03
kerioDocScrutinizer05: freebsd does it for i386 and amd6418:03
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DocScrutinizer05yast (Opensuse) basically also does it for a number of defined default configs, then applying deltas on top of that to exactly match your individual setup18:05
kerio"basically" is what upsets me18:06
DocScrutinizer05basically each .rpm and .deb is a tarball18:06
keriodebian is also "basically" doing that, if by "basically" you mean that the base system is a huge amount of udebs18:06
KotCzarnykerio, but you are overcomplicating18:06
KotCzarnyjust install one susyem18:06
KotCzarnythen tar and untar on another machine. done18:06
DocScrutinizer05it's just about granularity of config you can have18:07
KotCzarnybut i prefer rsync over tar18:07
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DocScrutinizer05you're asking for (A B B D E F), standard is (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F), and e.g. Suse does (ABCDE) (F)18:08
keriobase.txz is literally a tarball of the freebsd /18:08
DocScrutinizer05s/A B B/A B C/18:08
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: you're asking for (A B C D E F), standard is (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F), and e.g. Suse does (ABCDE) (F)18:08
Sicelocontaining which packages?18:08
keriobase isn't packaged18:09
DocScrutinizer05Suse even might do (ABCDEFG) - (G)18:09
ceenei've installed debian many times on a virtual machine just to tar the whole rootfs and install that on a slower machine, or a machine with bad connectivity18:10
KotCzarnyi do the same if i get new machine18:10
KotCzarnyjust rsync os without /home18:10
KotCzarny(regenerating keys etc later)18:10
DocScrutinizer05I think live DVDs do a simple copy instead of tarball extract18:11
DocScrutinizer05when you use the "install this Live system as permanent OS" feature18:12
DocScrutinizer05afk, sorry18:12
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kerioalso, why the hell doesn't linux ps support "d"18:17
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KotCzarny# ps  d18:20
KotCzarnyerror: unsupported option (BSD syntax)18:20
KotCzarnyit refuses to support it ;)18:20
kerioyou've got a thing that outputs a list of processes18:21
kerioit doesn't seem farfetched to add a tree view to it18:21
kerioinstead of requiring a separate program18:21
KotCzarny To print a process tree:18:21
KotCzarny          ps -ejH18:21
KotCzarny          ps axjf18:21
ceeneps faux18:22
ceeneis the one i like18:23
KotCzarnyi usually use: ps axwwu18:23
keriops auxwwdJ018:24
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keriobecause otherwise there's way too much crap18:24
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Vajb_question about jabber. In which server i should register? Newest or closest or totally irrelevant?19:30
KotCzarnywhy not both?19:31
Vajb_well it seems im not too familiar of how it works...19:32
Vajb_i thought it is like facebook or something that there is only one place to register etc19:33
KotCzarnyi think its more like local server hubs talking to each other19:33
KotCzarnyie. kind of irc structure19:33
Siceloyou need only register on one server, and yes, irc is the best analogy19:34
KotCzarnyyou can even have own server19:34
Vajb_but they are all connected to each others?19:35
Siceloyou will be able to talk to people on other servers, unless one of the involved servers is private19:35
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KotCzarnyyou have id@domain right?19:35
KotCzarnydomain part is the id of the server19:35
KotCzarnyand they can connect users together if needed19:35
KotCzarnypick the one you trust19:36
Vajb_and how do i tell my whatsapp friends what to do if there is too many choices :p19:36
KotCzarnysee id@domain part19:36
Vajb_ah that'll be "me" shown to them?19:37
SiceloKotCzarny: if they are on completely different domain, Vajb_ can talk to them19:37
Vajb_i guess i'll go by newest software19:37
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Sicelojabber/xmpp is federated, unless someone has explicitylt decided to make their server private19:37
Vajb_plus security grade19:37
KotCzarnysicelo, yes, that's what i meant 'servers talking to each other by domain'19:38
KotCzarnyalso, google talk is also using xmpp/jabber network19:39
Sicelonot anymore. they went private19:39
KotCzarnyahm, pity19:40
Vajb_yes i was thinking of google talk as alternative19:40
Vajb_but thought it wont work because google19:40
Sicelofacebook was also standard xmpp, decided to go proprietary too19:40
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SiceloVajb_: try google .. it works for some, but you have to ensure you add your friends, particularly if they are on android/hangouts19:41
Vajb_well rather not19:41
Vajb_im looking for alternative for longer time19:42
SiceloIRC :)19:42
Vajb_if it is owned by some big blahblah u never know...19:42
Vajb_no irssi for android :(19:42
KotCzarnyvajb: not true19:43
KotCzarnyif you root your device you can ssh to it and run on screen19:43
Sicelolol? why irssi?19:43
Vajb_well wasn't visible in galaxy apps when my gf checked19:43
Sicelothere are many irc clients for them19:43
KotCzarnybut it wont be battery friendly for sure19:43
KotCzarnyyour best bet is to use mosh + irssi on screen somehwere19:43
Vajb_yeah i guess some im client is better19:44
Siceloi don't even get why it has to be irssi?19:44
* Sicelo started IRC with jmIrc on Nokia dumb phone19:45
Vajb_well it is just something i trust :)19:45
KotCzarnyvajb, irssi, bitchx, epic19:45
KotCzarnydepends on your initial poison19:45
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DocScrutinizer05IRC has webchat :-)20:33
DocScrutinizer05so literally everybody can use it, as long as you got a browser that can do what the webchat needs20:34
DocScrutinizer05also creating multiuser chats is as simple as it gets: just join a random channel of your choice20:34
DocScrutinizer05invite people: send
DocScrutinizer05really convincing people never been simpler20:37
DocScrutinizer05no strings attached20:38
DocScrutinizer05on N900 you're free to use a decen IRC client like xchat20:39
kerio"good" LUL20:41
DocScrutinizer05o.O ?20:42
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jogashell irc: still Just Works, unlike any of the other so-called better IM solutions :p21:06
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jogaif I had an android/iphone I'd try Signal perhaps21:07
jogawith friends/family or so, but it's not the same anyway as irc21:07
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Vajb_well i ended up registering at chinwag22:01
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