IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2016-04-08

DocScrutinizer05some driver strength settings etc00:00
DocScrutinizer05lemme check the pdf again00:00
DocScrutinizer05[Wed 02 March 2016] [00:37:43] <DocScrutinizer05> particularly High Current I/Os  Load VCP Driver  Invert TXD  Invert RXD  Invert RTS#  Invert CTS#  worries me00:00
freemangordonI don;t see a problem with that00:01
freemangordonI guess the driver has sane defaults00:01
DocScrutinizer05so I'll just connect GND, TX and RX, via 100R series for good means00:05
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: see on p14 for the defaults00:05
freemangordon"High Current I/Os" ios being enabled is ok IMO00:05
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: VCP stands for Virtual COM Port and this is what we want :)00:06
DocScrutinizer05ok, I'll just ignore all that stuff and do as said above00:07
DocScrutinizer05let's hope minicom gives me a nice bootlog00:07
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drathirDocScrutinizer05: thanks a lot i will read it...00:35
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infoboti heard maemo-flashing is, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh00:54
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DocScrutinizer05ok, still works ;-)01:12
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: you still here?02:39
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: after soldering the three wires, it's getting difficult to disassemble the device without breaking the wires at very least. So my question: do you really need USB reinforcement (the USB jack looks healthy so far)?02:41
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Church-_Hey, anybody had any luck about getting newer versions of libc6 installed in maemo?04:10
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azkayDocScrutinizer05: What are you soldering?04:25
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DocScrutinizer05azkay: freemangordon:
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: finally \o/
DocScrutinizer05now next step of this operation: connect to TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE05:23
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azkay_Ahhh, good fun :P05:39
azkay_I try not to solder anything I'm going to be using anymore, everytime I do I end up getting it too hot and the contact pads come off the board05:40
azkay_But then again, I never buy the things I need to actually do it properly because I say I'll get them next time and never do05:40
azkay_So I end up holding things together with one hand while soldering and powering through the radiating heat that's heading to my fingers, then get upset when the solder isn't flowing because I keep forgetting to buy flux05:41
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DocScrutinizer05azkay_: too hot is just a matter of decent equipment05:56
DocScrutinizer05get a good soldering iron with temperature control, adjust it to 330°C, use highest quality electronic solder (Fluitin for example)05:57
azkay_So, better than my $10 on/off iron? :P05:58
DocScrutinizer05apply minimal amount of solder to iron tip (for improved heat transfer), then heat up the pad until the solder wire liquifies *on the pad*05:58
DocScrutinizer05don't apply heat longer than MAX 10s05:59
DocScrutinizer05rather 5s05:59
DocScrutinizer05if it doesn't work, increase temperature by a 10°C05:59
DocScrutinizer05when you really know to solder, aquired real mastership, you can solder with a 10$ iron too. even with a hot spoon06:00
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DocScrutinizer05and for 'normal' soldering (all but SMT) you don't really need flux06:04
DocScrutinizer05just quality solder wire06:04
DocScrutinizer05solder wire has a flux multicore06:05
DocScrutinizer05actually the flux core is what separates high quality solder wire from crap06:06
DocScrutinizer05the mere metal is almost always the same06:06
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azkay_I seee06:40
azkay_Thanks :)06:40
DocScrutinizer05ok, I'm fed up for today. The N900 testpoint hack seems to work. What's not working is the compination of minicom and TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE - not even electrical loopback, neither testing for voltage changes on TX line of that adapter while typing chars works06:45
ds3DocScrutinizer05: are you sure that one doesn't require a 1.8V ref?07:03
DocScrutinizer05yes, since the adapter has its own power supply07:03
DocScrutinizer05I suspect mess with CTS/RTS07:04
ds3isn't that TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE a FTDI cable ?07:04
ds3okay... never seem them with their own power supply07:04
ds3the one I use has a VREF input to take different IO voltages07:05
ds3OTH, I use kermit.. minicom is alwaysodd07:06
DocScrutinizer05>> Power Supply Output except for the TTL-232RG-VIP-WE  where this is an input and power is supplied by the application interface logic.<<07:06
ds3Oh that's what you mean by power supply07:07
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DocScrutinizer05so yes, TX has 1V8, and RX has some weak 1V707:08
DocScrutinizer05and TX doesn't show any dynamic signal while typing chars on minicom07:09
DocScrutinizer05friggin minicom tells me "offline" always07:10
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DocScrutinizer05I strongly suspect RTS/CTS07:10
DocScrutinizer05though minicom should override this with HW-flowcontrol off07:10
DocScrutinizer05I hope it's not DCD which isn't supported by the FTDI07:11
DocScrutinizer052initialize modem" \o/07:15
DocScrutinizer05FFS minicom you b*tch07:15
DocScrutinizer05aaaand we have LIFTOFF, err noise on battery insert07:17
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: hi!07:18
DocScrutinizer05alas nothing but noise, even during boot07:18
DocScrutinizer05115200 8N107:19
freemangordonhmm, no07:19
DocScrutinizer05pretty much same noise07:20
freemangordonwhere do you see that noise? a garbage chars in minicom?07:20
freemangordonthen it most-probably works07:20
DocScrutinizer05not convinced yet, actually that friggin N900 *really* has 2V8 on debug port, ask me where from it gets that07:21
freemangordondebug port == com2?07:22
DocScrutinizer05but since the FTDI detects signal, it should be happy with 2V8 and dunno 0.3V07:22
DocScrutinizer05dunno which com port that is07:23
DocScrutinizer05scope meant it looks like 11520007:25
freemangordonok, it might be 115200 then07:25
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freemangordonI wonder how did you get that readings without the battery inserted07:26
DocScrutinizer05see "frequency: 125kHz" from err wait... upper left of scope, but that's between cursors and that means the bit is... err yes as long as one sine wave of ~120kHz07:26
DocScrutinizer05this is a storage scope ;-)07:26
freemangordonaah, ok :)07:27
DocScrutinizer05well, the friggin thing makes noise when battery insert and during bootup. As good as it gets before I have a nap07:28
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freemangordonyeah, take some rest07:28
infobotminicom is, like, ok. In fact I did xmodem transfers from minicom. But after reseting, minicom receives dirty echo from serial port07:29
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: what is the low level offset from zero?07:29
DocScrutinizer05sort if zero iirc07:30
DocScrutinizer05massive shootovers though07:30
freemangordonI meant - what is seen on the soce07:30
DocScrutinizer05yeah, zero volts plusminus07:30
DocScrutinizer05no DC offset07:31
DocScrutinizer05the downward shootovers are actually negative07:32
DocScrutinizer05~1V I'd guess07:32
DocScrutinizer05minus 1V07:33
DocScrutinizer05gonna check signal with scope later, once more07:34
azkay__Maybe that07:34
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yeah, you'd better continue after having some sleep07:34
DocScrutinizer05azkay__: looks good enough07:35
DocScrutinizer05azkay__: make sure you get a collection of soldertips for it, you won't prolly find any spares later on07:36
DocScrutinizer05krhrhr >>Struggles to solder XT60 connectors even on max setting. 60W? I do not think so. You get what you pay for.<<07:36
DocScrutinizer05however read next comments07:37
azkay__It's a chinese clone of some other brand, supposed to have all interchangable parts07:38
DocScrutinizer05get a damp sponge for wiping the hot tip clean07:43
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DocScrutinizer05'kermit' ?07:47
DocScrutinizer05hmm k,
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yes, ckermit07:50
DocScrutinizer05locate ckermit:07:51
DocScrutinizer05no executable07:52
freemangordondunno, maybe you have only that -doc package installed07:53
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: could you ask zypper to list ckermit package contents?07:54
freemangordonsorry, can't help, ubuntu here :)07:55
freemangordonseems google can:07:56
freemangordonwell, seems it is kermit after all07:57
DocScrutinizer05saturn:~ # ker07:58
DocScrutinizer05kermit          kernel-install07:58
DocScrutinizer05now for real07:58
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keriowouldn't the sponge burn07:58
kerioalso how can you *go* to sleep at 7am07:58
kerioyou wake up *from* sleep at 7am07:59
DocScrutinizer05JRTZV here07:59
DocScrutinizer05JR TimeZone Virtual07:59
keriodoc pls go to sleep at a normal time08:00
kerioit's good for you ;-;08:00
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azkay__uber app: Login finished, estimate cost/time finished10:06
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OksanaAny progress with pebble time and Nokia N900?
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Vajbis it just me or gnugo isn't working on maemo?12:40
Vajbfrom extras-devel repo12:41
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MaxdamantusWhat does "not working" mean?15:04
Vajb~ $ gnugo15:09
Vajb-sh: gnugo: not found15:09
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Vajb/opt/gnugo/bin $ sh gnugo15:10
Vajbgnugo: line 1: syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")15:10
Vajb/opt/gnugo/bin $15:10
Vajbit is installed properly, but no way to start it15:11
Maxdamantustry ./gnugo15:11
Vajbor im missing something (which is probably the case)15:11
Vajbnot found15:11
MaxdamantusI don't think gnugo usually comes with a shell script wrapper, so `sh gnugo` probably isn't going to make sense.15:12
MaxdamantusWhen you're inside /opt/gnugo/bin15:12
Vajbthere it worked15:12
Maxdamantusif you're not in there, just specify the whole path.15:12
Maxdamantusor add /opt/gnugo/bin to your $PATH somehow.15:12
KotCzarnyor symlink to /usr/bin15:13
Vajbwhat exactly is ./ command?15:15
Maxdamantuswhen you run something like `sh foo`, sh reads the "foo" file and interprets it as a shell script.15:15
Maxdamantusin typical unix shells, when the first part of a command has a slash in it, it's interpreted as a path to the program to execute.15:16
KotCzarny. means current dir15:16
Maxdamantusotherwise it looks for it in $PATH entries (unless it happens to be an unquoted shell built-in).15:17
KotCzarnyso if you are in /opt/bin and enter ./cmd then it's like providing /opt/bin/cmd15:17
MaxdamantusYes, "./gnugo" is just another way of saying "gnugo", but it has a slash in it so the shell interprets it as a path.15:17
Vajbhmm i sort of see15:18
Maxdamantusotherwise it will expect to find it in /bin or /usr/bin or whatever else is in your $PATH variable at the time.15:18
KotCzarnyin similar way .. means 'parent dir' and ~ is expanded by shell to your HOME15:18
KotCzarnybut one difference from providing full path is that app starts in current dir15:19
MaxdamantusIt always inherits the current directory from the parent.15:20
KotCzarnyie. if you are in /home/user and type /opt/bin/cmd and the program would look for file 1.jpg it will look for /home/user/1.jpg15:20
KotCzarnybut if you are in /opt/bin and type ./cmd program trying to open 1.jpg will look in /opt/bin/1.jpg15:20
Vajband if i symlink gnugo to /usr/bin and run just ./gnugo symlink will point to right place and it works without specifying path?15:22
KotCzarnyno, ./gnugo will try to load gnugo from CURRENT dir15:22
KotCzarnyie. fail15:23
KotCzarnyif you symlink gnugo to /usr/bin you can just run gnugo (and bash will search for gnugo in dirs specified n PATH variable)15:23
Maxdamantus"./gnugo" has a slash in it, so it doesn't search $PATH directories.15:23
Vajbah right15:24
Vajbsomehow i have a feeling that im stumbling over pretty basic things here :)15:24
MaxdamantusDepends what you consider to be basic.15:25
KotCzarnyyou cant get more basic than *nix paths15:25
MaxdamantusI'd say ctrl-d on a terminal is more basic, but that's probably harder to grasp.15:25
KotCzarnyone could live whole life without knowing ctrl-d15:25
Maxdamantusnot knowing about it, or not knowing what it does?15:26
KotCzarnynot knowing about it15:26
KotCzarny(ie. killing apps by clicking X)15:26
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ecc3gAnyone having problems with modest and yahoo IMAP?20:36
KotCzarnyafaik yahoo used pop3 for free service, unless they've changed their policy20:37
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ecc3gI've been using IMAPs for quite a while but it seemed to have stopped working in January20:38
KotCzarnygrab thunderbird and check?20:39
ecc3gSince I don't use it as a primary mail provider, I didn't notice it stopped working for me20:39
ecc3gAlpine seems to work with the same setup20:39
ecc3gso as far as I know it's a modest issue or something with my n900 or tmobile20:39
ecc3goh wait20:39
ecc3gscratch tmobile, I tested over my wifi at home20:39
ecc3gYahoo "last updated 1/20/2016"20:40
ecc3gGmail and my private mail server "Last updated 10:50 am" according to modest20:41
KotCzarnyas i said, check on pc, if it works, maybe they've disabled some ssl* protocols and left only tls*20:42
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ecc3gyes it works on my pc through alpine20:43
Sicelowhat are the settings by the way? haven't checked my yahoo in a long time. can test for you20:43
ecc3gso modest has problems with tls?20:44 port 99320:44
ecc3ginteresting, thanks20:48
sixwheeledbeastI stopped using modest, it completely stopped downloading email for me back in January IIRC. I agree I thought yahoo was pop only on free mail.20:48
ecc3gactually it seems to login but cant get mails or at least no errors20:49
ecc3gsixwheeledbeast: ok yes that's the behavior I'm seeing so perhaps there is really an issue here20:49
ecc3gI'm still using IMAP on alpine on my linux box and that still works20:49
Siceloreminds me i have a twitter account, hmm.20:49
sixwheeledbeastecc3g: you on CSSU?20:49
sixwheeledbeastecc3g: Testing?20:49
ecc3gno, stable20:50
sixwheeledbeastecc3g: it's stable CSSU then, as I have a testing device that mail works20:50
Siceloworking just fine here (Yahoo + Modest) sees all 36 mails. cssu-thumb20:50
ecc3gso I guess I need to pull a new most from testing?20:50
Sicelotbh i use mutt 90% of the time20:50
Siceloecc3g: no reason to still be on stable nowadays :)20:51
ecc3gI guess I can always ssh and run alpine, but modest seems to work20:51
sixwheeledbeastecc3g: hopefully an update is due and then we will be working again20:51
KotCzarnycssu-testing is stable enough anyway20:51
sixwheeledbeastSicelo: I don't agree, stable is important to be maintained20:51
Siceloi didn't say it shouldn't :)20:51
sixwheeledbeastIf nobody uses Stable then there is no one to find these things.20:52
KotCzarnycssu-thumb is nice too20:52
Sicelobut current testing is stable enough for the last two years is it? and will be stable soon as merlin finds the time20:52
ecc3gi really should go get another n900 and try thumb on it20:52
sixwheeledbeastI did mention here in January that modest had stopped working but I assumed it was just me so never bothered investigating20:52
sixwheeledbeastNo one else shouted up.20:52
ecc3gah... sorry i must have missed that message20:53
sixwheeledbeastecc3g: np :)20:53
sixwheeledbeastboth testing and stable are due an update it's just devs having the time to package one up.20:53
ecc3gI miss a lot of things, I just realized I didn't get yahoo mail updates since jan :)20:54
sixwheeledbeastI see little reason not to have the benefits of thumb if your on testing.20:58
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merlin1991-stable will see an update *soonish*21:03
merlin1991that should get your modest back on track21:04
robotanarchy_Wizzup, Pali: updated my guide:
sixwheeledbeastmerlin1991: thanks21:11
Wizzuprobotanarchy_: did you also see the guide I pm'd you21:13
Wizzupwith all the dbus commends21:13
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robotanarchy_Wizzup: I saw it yesterday, but then forgot about it. thanks for pointing me at it again, I will link it at the end21:20
Wizzuprobotanarchy_: they illustrate the dbus interface decently21:21
WizzupI also never had troubles with eudev and openrc21:22
Wizzup(wrt your 'systemd hanging' problem)21:23
robotanarchy_Wizzup: I don't like systemd anyway. it's just what debian comes with these days... once I have some reasonable userland code written, I'll base everything on another distro21:24
robotanarchy_currently I'm favoring starch linux most :p arch linux' pacman + musl libc + busybox. and I'd use runit as init system I guess (just like in void linux and sabotage)21:24
WizzupI have a few gentoo musl systems21:25
Wizzupwith openrc21:25
robotanarchy_nice :)21:25
Wizzupnow that most of the n900 driver stuff seems to work (at least for pda func), I am going to drink beer and brainstorm on how to cont.21:25
WizzupREing audio I'd still love to help with21:25
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robotanarchy_Wizzup: I though audio is already somewhat working?21:26
WizzupI meant phone calls21:26
Wizzupclosed nokia audio bits21:26
WizzupIf you mean ALSA, then yes, ALSA work21:26
Wizzupalthough I think it is (still?) possible to damage/destroy the speakers21:27
robotanarchy_Wizzup: wasn't there a blog post, where someone managed to make a call?21:27
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Wizzuppavel, yes21:28
robotanarchy_and yeah, that alsa stuff also needs to be fixed. destroying speakers is bad :D21:28
Wizzuprobotanarchy_: but the nokia closed bits are still interesting since they do many useful things for calls IIRC21:28
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robotanarchy_ah okay21:29
robotanarchy_maybe I can even help with that. though my focus is right now making the phone usable for every day usage. very basic sms and call support, with an xmpp frontend so I can use pidgin for now for writing sms21:30
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Wizzuprobotanarchy_: ah, the main thing I do not care about is the actual phone func21:33
Wizzupat least not much21:33
Wizzupbut I have a day-to-day n900 and I want to turn this one into something more useful for pda tasks etc21:33
Wizzupwith up to date sw - also firefox 45 (or whatever we have now)21:33
robotanarchy_do you have special config options for firefox, so it performs well on the n900?21:34
robotanarchy_I've tried it out and it hangs from time to time for me on that debian900 setup I have. running with noscript enabled.21:34
robotanarchy_although it probably was the LTS version of firefox, that I tested21:35
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robotanarchy_Aaro, the dude who wrote the guide you have sent me also has an interesting minimal linux on n900 project:
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robotanarchy_Wizzup: yay, sending and receiving sms works :>21:53
Wizzuprobotanarchy_: cool21:54
Wizzuprobotanarchy_: I would use firefox on the n900 only for a few things21:55
Wizzupnot for most sites21:55
robotanarchy_netsurf is slowly getting javascript support, I'll try out that :)21:55
robotanarchy_and yeah, makes sense21:55
WizzupI'd like to use it for notes, basic rsync/gprs, some security tasks (although modem), and just proper powered terminal when I need it21:56
WizzupMy plan is to use s2r extensively21:56
Wizzupsince it will not do calls anyway21:57
robotanarchy_well then you basically have everything?21:57
Wizzupwell, usb host probably21:58
robotanarchy_I recommend the terminology terminal. although bloated as hell (i mean, you can play videos in that thing), it is entirely written in C, has some touch support and performs well on the n900.21:58
DocScrutinizer05could you guys leave a note somewhere on about your alternative OS experiences?21:59
Wizzupmerlijn@chrometwo ~ $ ps xua | grep terminology -c21:59
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Wizzuprobotanarchy_: I have enlightenment installed with the mobile ui as well22:00
WizzupI decided to mostly not use X though, I think22:00
Wizzupif I don't need it...22:00
robotanarchy_ <- as you may know that is my minimal, i3 based touch ui for the n900. (DocScrutinizer05: does this count as alternative os experience? ;) )22:01
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DocScrutinizer05thanks, I linked to it22:14
robotanarchy_DocScrutinizer05: cool, where?22:15
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freemangordonbencoh: BTW, I think there is a council meeting right now, I guess you can ask there re autobuilder etc23:04
DocScrutinizer05ooh council meetings still exist?23:11
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