IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2015-09-24

freemangordonWizzup: what os?00:10
Wizzupfreemangordon: gentoo with alsamixer00:10
WizzupI mean, just linux 4.1.0-rc400:11
freemangordonn900 that is, correct?00:11
freemangordonWizzup: ^^^00:11
freemangordonWizzup: vanilla or Pali's tree on github?00:12
bencohWizzup: audio .... just audio playback, or audio/cmtspeech ?00:14
WizzupI am not sure if there are many differences between Pali and mainline00:18
Wizzupbencoh: cmtspeech is next target00:19
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC00:21
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo00:21
Ras_Oldero/ everyone! How are things here?00:26
DocScrutinizer05(cmtspeech) good luck00:27
DocScrutinizer05hi Ras_Older. Things are mostly smooth and quiet here00:28
Ras_OlderI've been cracking local cybersec convention challenges lately and just cracked 2 major ones :D00:29
Ras_Oldertomorrow morning (+10 hours) hitting them up physically. They started today but due to sickness I wasn't able to go there just yet.00:30
Wizzupbencoh: cmtspeech fails to modprobe atm00:30
Ras_OlderSucks to be me atm :D the last 8 weeks I've been on sickleave.00:31
Ras_OlderBut tomorrow I hope to make it to there (Jyväskylä Cyber Security 2015 convention) in person.00:32
Ras_OlderYeah totally untopic but things have been rather quiet here lately so :D00:33
*** xes has quit IRC00:44
*** auenfx4 has quit IRC01:01
*** Pali has quit IRC01:02
*** auenf has joined #maemo01:02
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo01:25
*** florian has quit IRC01:26
*** red723 has joined #maemo01:26
*** red723 has quit IRC01:29
*** L29Ah has left #maemo01:43
*** vectis has quit IRC01:43
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo01:44
*** chainsawbike has quit IRC01:47
*** L29Ah has left #maemo01:48
*** chainsawbike has joined #maemo01:49
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo01:49
*** protem has joined #maemo01:51
*** L29Ah has quit IRC01:58
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC02:06
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo02:07
*** xes has joined #maemo02:23
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo02:31
*** cpt_nemo has quit IRC02:39
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC02:39
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo02:40
*** L29Ah has left #maemo02:46
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo02:52
*** lxp has quit IRC03:30
*** Mek_ has joined #maemo03:33
*** Mek has quit IRC03:33
*** robink has quit IRC03:47
*** robink_ has joined #maemo03:52
*** grinsekatze has quit IRC03:54
Oksana<kerio>Oksana: *add* a portrait slider instead <-- How so? One more layer, to make it even more thick? And, on N900 Bluetooth-FM and WiFi are different chips. Maybe, WiFi can be fixed with hot air, but I am not an expert, so take care and research.03:55
*** erlehmann has joined #maemo03:58
*** grinsekatze has joined #maemo04:02
*** beford has joined #maemo04:14
*** eMHa__ has joined #maemo04:18
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC04:22
*** erlehmann has quit IRC04:34
*** Defiant has quit IRC04:52
*** Defiant has joined #maemo04:54
*** sparetire_ has quit IRC05:20
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC05:39
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo05:41
*** Roth has joined #maemo05:47
OksanaHow to hunt down torx+ screwdrivers, and not just torx?06:27
*** jonwil has joined #maemo07:40
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC07:44
*** jonwil has quit IRC07:47
OksanaIn short, I will likely go for
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: these days I just run CSSU Thumb with a Gentoo chroot07:48
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo07:48
Luke-JrI wonder if it could be the cable. When I put it on my portable battery charger, it went to 100% in ~30 min07:49
DocScrutinizer05hmm, yes07:53
*** ds3 has quit IRC07:54
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: know any way to get reliable cables? I've had bad luck just picking off NewEgg.. :/08:01
DocScrutinizer05dunno, most of mine seem to be fine08:01
*** protem has quit IRC08:02
OksanaSo, Nokia N900 has TorxPlus IP4 screws?08:03
infobot1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss08:11
*** fortytwo has quit IRC08:23
*** fortytwo has joined #maemo08:25
KotCzarnyluke-jr: n900 needs >500mA to fully charge08:29
Luke-JrKotCzarny: yeah, I was giving it 1A08:29
KotCzarnyespecially if you have wifi/gsm on it could easily draw ~500 and not charge at the same time to full08:29
KotCzarnyi've noticed that when i was fiddling with my secondary n900 on usb, it was charging and charging, and never turning green08:30
KotCzarnyluke-jr: measure with multimeter or just buy some 'charge doctor usb meter' for 1.5usd on ebay08:30
*** japa-fi has quit IRC08:31
KotCzarnycable was good, because then i just used the same cable, but with 1A charger instead of pc usb08:33
*** FlameReaper-PC has joined #maemo08:35
*** robink_ has quit IRC08:36
KotCzarnyMem: 221868K used, 13384K free, 0K shrd, 13944K buff, 70624K cached08:36
KotCzarnycssu-thumb is nice when it comes to free mem08:36
KotCzarnyfreemangordon, would you find some time to recompile image-viewer, rtcom-call-ui, systemui ? and maybe browser*08:41
*** robink_ has joined #maemo08:42
KotCzarny(those are the top entries in top for now)08:46
*** robink_ is now known as robink08:49
*** futpib has joined #maemo08:56
*** zGrr has joined #maemo08:56
*** Roth has quit IRC09:04
*** qwazix_ has joined #maemo09:13
*** fuz_ has quit IRC09:23
*** BlessJah has left #maemo09:25
*** futpib has quit IRC09:27
zGrrmoin :)09:29
*** ds3 has joined #maemo09:33
*** fuz_ has joined #maemo09:35
*** fortytwo has quit IRC09:37
*** fortytwo has joined #maemo09:40
KotCzarnyeh, running maemo apps via DISPLAY=somelinuxhost fails in functionality09:49
KotCzarnybad hildon, bad!09:49
*** BCMM has joined #maemo09:55
zGrrI've noticed that too.09:56
zGrrthey must have had big problems with this if they disabled it. X is a mess.09:57
KotCzarnythey just went their own way ignoring any *nix traditions10:00
zGrrit is easy to say that but there must have been a reason behind it.10:01
KotCzarnythe only real reason would be 'no one thought anyone would want to do such thing'10:02
KotCzarnyand lack of test/reqs in that matter10:03
KotCzarnyfreemangordon: fennec is missing libqtm-12-feedback dependency10:03
zGrri can imagine, that i required at least several hacks to get the X working properly on n900. there could have been some serious compatibility issues with remote X.10:05
KotCzarnyxshm fails for remote connections, that's expected, pity most hildonized things require that to display properly10:06
*** florian has joined #maemo10:10
keriowtf are you talking about10:13
keriomaemo apps are launched with a shared library compatibility layer that, for obvious reasons, doesn't copy the environment10:13
keriouse maemo-standalone or whatever10:13
kerioand you'll get your DISPLAY10:14
*** vectis has joined #maemo10:14
KotCzarnyNokia-N900:~# maemo-standalone10:14
KotCzarny-sh: maemo-standalone: not found10:14
kerioyou'll have to open the .launch binary10:15
keriowhich isn't even a binary anyway10:15
kerioit's effectively some weird relocatable shared library10:15
keriothe shit one does instead of adding some more ram10:16
KotCzarnyNokia-N900:~# maemo-summoner /usr/bin/osso_calculator10:16
KotCzarnymaemo-summoner: summoning '/usr/bin/osso_calculator'10:16
KotCzarnymaemo-summoner: died loading invoked application: '/usr/bin/osso_calculator: cannot dynamically load executable'10:16
keriofucking crazy10:16
keriomaemo-summoner /usr/bin/osso_calculator.launch10:16
keriohm actually10:16
keriowait osso_calculator is a real binary10:17
KotCzarnyi wonder why /etc/fstab is dynamically created on every boot10:21
*** geaaru has joined #maemo10:39
* Maxdamantus doesn't really like the idea of defining core filesystem layout with /etc/fstab10:41
Maxdamantusimo it should be there to make mounting things slightly easier for the user.10:41
KotCzarnyum, *nix wasnt for users10:42
KotCzarnyit was server os, and admin had the right for defining what mounts10:42
Maxdamantuseg, /boot isn't usually necessary, so put it in /etc/fstab so you can `mount /boot` when you do need it.10:42
Maxdamantusserver? You mean time sharing?10:42
KotCzarnyyou can always define user mountable things with udev scripts10:43
MaxdamantusThey didn't have servers and clients in the beginning. They just had a machine with a bunch of terminals attached.10:43
KotCzarnyyes, and users didnt mount anything10:43
Maxdamantus(and the people on those terminals certainly used the OS)10:43
kerioi have a static fstab10:43
keriobecause of reasons10:43
MaxdamantusIt was designed to be usable.10:43
Maxdamantusin an era when "usable" meant using text editors like `ed`10:44
KotCzarnyusers are stupid, ie, they usually physically disconnect things without umounting10:45
KotCzarnyand you either have to decide if you want performance or usability10:45
MaxdamantusIt's stupid that filesystems still can't handle that.10:45
KotCzarnyno device can handle powerloss in the middle of the write10:46
Maxdamantus.. yes, plenty of devices can.10:46
KotCzarnyuser class?10:46
MaxdamantusIt's a limitation of the organisation of filesystems and software that means you should unmount things before removing them, not really hardware.10:47
MaxdamantusRemovable devices often have a light that flashes during activity.10:48
kerioyeah we could just mount things without any cache10:48
MaxdamantusTheoretically, you should be able to just wait until it stops flashing; that should indicate that your transfers are done.10:48
kerioand lose ANY performance10:48
KotCzarnymaxd, what about delayed writes10:48
KotCzarnyuser starts ejecting drive when os decides to flush buffers10:49
kerioKotCzarny: in Maxdamantus' world we have to mount things with sync,data=ordered10:49
kerioand open all files with O_DIRECT10:49
Maxdamantuskerio: no. Journalling is stupid.10:49
Maxdamantuskerio: the main filesystem on your phone doesn't journal.10:49
keriook you're definetely a troll10:49
*** vectis has quit IRC10:49
keriothe main filesystem on my phone is ubifs10:50
keriowhich is journaled10:50
Maxdamantuskerio: ubifs is fairly resiliant to power loss without journalling, because it was designed after everyone knew that journalling was a stupid way of solving that issue.10:50
keriothe other filesystem is ext410:50
keriowhich is journaled10:50
KotCzarnyit's all about deciding how much performance/stability/usability to have10:50
kerioare you serious10:50
kerioubifs is journaled10:50
Maxdamantuskerio: yes, I'm totally serious.10:50
Maxdamantuskerio: it's a log-based filesystem, not a journalled filesystem.10:50
Maxdamantuskerio: you can look this shit up.10:50
kerioUBIFS automatically replays its journal and recovers from crashes, ensuring that the on-flash data10:50
keriostructures are consistent.10:50
kerioubifs is not a log-structured filesystem10:50
MaxdamantusOh, okay, it's journalled. That's silly.10:52
MaxdamantusWell, actually, it depends how it's implemented.10:52
MaxdamantusI suspect it's quite different to the "journalling" done by ext.10:53
MaxdamantusSince it works on top of MTD, so it should naturally be avoiding writing over things.10:54
Maxdamantusotherwise writes to the same file would keep writing to the same block (unless you're relying on a fancy FTL under your filesystem), which is bad.10:54
KotCzarnyis emmc wear levelled?10:54
MaxdamantusOf course. It has a controller inside that manages that.10:55
KotCzarnyi'm planning to move whole os to emmc or sd10:55
MaxdamantusNo copying.10:57
Maxdamantusunlike ext (where you need to specify ordered writes or full data journalling (writing twice) to provide the sort of guarantees that should be implicit)10:58
Maxdamantusalso, 19:50:07 < kerio> the other filesystem is ext410:59
KotCzarnyno stable ext4 for 2.6.2810:59
MaxdamantusTheodor Ts'o (the maintainer of ext4) has said that filesystems should be moving towards something like btrfs rather than ext4.11:00
KotCzarnynor btrfs11:00
KotCzarnywhich is why having 4.x in fremantle would be awesome11:00
KotCzarnyor in n900 os in general11:01
KotCzarnystandard fremantle (without *.avi and *.mp3) is ~ 138M for rootfs, ~190M for home/opt and ~33M for mydocs11:03
Maxdamantus2.9G    /btrfs/bk/n900/homefs/150906.mnt/select/maemo5-root11:04
KotCzarnysome chroot?11:04
* Maxdamantus just uses the ubifs as a portable initramfs.11:07
Maxdamantuser, mutable*11:07
KotCzarnyum, isnt that eating memory?11:07
Maxdamantusorcus:/mnt/ubi/lib/modules# ls11:08
Maxdamantus2.6.28-omap1  2.6.28-omap1-00001-ge37221b-dirty  3.14.0-rc1+  3.18.0+  3.18.0-rc6+  current11:08
KotCzarnyhaving initramfs11:08
KotCzarnyunless you free it after boot11:09
MaxdamantusIt's not an actual initramfs, but no, that wouldn't necessary eat memory.11:09
Maxdamantusor just remove the files.11:09
KotCzarnythat's what i meant11:09
* Maxdamantus currently has his laptop set up to use an actual initramfs as his root.11:10
KotCzarnylet's stick to n900 as a subject11:10
KotCzarnypc can have gigs of mem11:10
MaxdamantusI think you can unmount the initramfs after doing a pivot_root.11:11
KotCzarnyor just remove the files, as you've said11:11
KotCzarnystill, some will remain mapped by init and things you ran before pivot11:11
MaxdamantusYou shouldn't run init before pivoting.11:12
KotCzarnyit won't be pid 1 then11:12
MaxdamantusSure it will.11:13
MaxdamantusDon't fork, just exec.11:13
Maxdamantuspivot_root ..11:13
Maxdamantusexec /sbin/init11:13
KotCzarnyfair enough then11:13
*** rm_work has quit IRC11:14
*** rm_work has joined #maemo11:16
infobotit has been said that usbnet is at or and usbnet in 2.4.18 (desktop) is broken, you want to use > 2.4.19-pre2 or see windows usbnet for windows support or a patched version is at, or at, or, or dhcp over usbnet, ...11:28
KotCzarny~listkeys usbnet11:28
infobotFactoid search of 'usbnet' by key (5): windows usbnet #DEL# ;; 2.4.18 usbnet ;; zaurus usbnet ;; usbnet ;; usbnetworking.11:28
infobot[usbnetworking], or
KotCzarnymaxd: what's that?11:30
Maxdamantusx is number of minutes into the day, y is mV of battery according to bq272..11:31
KotCzarnyyou know that sampling it so often will drain the battery?11:31
KotCzarnyalso, same data you could get using battery-eye or similar11:32
MaxdamantusI can't imagine it being that significant.11:32
MaxdamantusIt's every 5 seconds.11:32
KotCzarnyuhuhu, often11:32
Maxdamantusand it's going through the kernel module, dunno when that looks at the registers.11:32
KotCzarnyswitch to 60s and compare11:33
Maxdamantusotherwise it's just a small amount of processing every 5 seconds and writing a bit to the eMMC.11:33
Maxdamantusit's computationally more efficient than doc's normal script.11:33
Maxdamantusthough yes, still not optimal .. that probably wouldn't invoke something like sed.11:34
KotCzarnynope, that would involve c11:34
KotCzarnyshell scripts are easy to write but are heavy on resources (compared to c)11:35
MaxdamantusIt's still fairly insignificant in this case.11:35
KotCzarnystill, for a quickie change 5s into 60s and compare11:36
MaxdamantusIt's basically just invoking a sed process every 5 seconds.11:36
MaxdamantusEverything else is in the shell.11:36
Maxdamantus(the normal script invokes i2c lots of times)11:36
KotCzarnyif there is noticeable difference you will know its draining11:36
Maxdamantusreal    0m17.231s11:38
Maxdamantususer    0m0.563s11:38
Maxdamantusso about 3% CPU.11:38
Maxdamantusdunno what clock speed.11:38
Maxdamantusprobably 200 MHz11:39
KotCzarnyany % cpu > idle/sleeping cpu11:39
KotCzarnyand 0.5s every 5s?11:39
Maxdamantus0.5s every 17.2s11:40
KotCzarnyit's 508s per 24h11:40
KotCzarnyso it's like turning it for 10min daily11:40
MaxdamantusYeah, so far less than I used on the bus.11:41
KotCzarnystill, do the 5s -> 60s comparison11:41
*** lxp has joined #maemo11:41
Maxdamantuswhich was around 1050–1090 on that graph.11:42
KotCzarnyin related news, i've observed new lowest mV on my device, 4.2mV in idle11:43
MaxdamantusmV or mA?11:44
*** qwazix_ has quit IRC11:44
* Maxdamantus wonders if it's going to go for another day.11:47
*** ssvb has quit IRC11:48
*** eMHa__ has quit IRC11:53
*** qwazix_ has joined #maemo11:57
*** LauRoman has quit IRC12:08
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo12:08
KotCzarnyupdate, on another device its 3.7mA12:14
KotCzarny370h of standby time?12:15
*** qwazix_ has quit IRC12:16
*** eMHa__ has joined #maemo12:20
*** vakkov has quit IRC12:21
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo12:21
WizzupMaxdamantus: that can prevent the phone from sleeping/idling12:25
*** cpt_nemo has joined #maemo12:26
MaxdamantusStuff already seems to do that.12:27
Maxdamantus 1633  1385 user     S    14288  6.0  0.0 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 1633 -n RTComMessagingServer12:27
KotCzarnyfix your setup?12:27
MaxdamantusI don't know enough about what RTComMessagingServer does to fix it.12:28
MaxdamantusI think it's just normally there in Maemo.12:28
*** futpib has joined #maemo12:28
Maxdamantusdoing .. stuff12:28
*** LauRoman has quit IRC12:28
KotCzarnyalso, second number is cpu usage, first is mem12:29
KotCzarny23989  1243 user     S    24188 10.2  0.0 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 23989 -n RTComMessagingServer12:29
KotCzarnyso its 0.012:29
KotCzarnypress shift-p to sort by cpu usage12:29
MaxdamantusIt's sorted by CPU usage by default.12:30
KotCzarnyanyway, notice that for those 0.0 cpu fields they are sorted by mem usage12:30
KotCzarnyso its not that browserd doing more than anything below12:31
*** vakkov has joined #maemo12:36
KotCzarnyFATAL: Error inserting g_ether (/lib/modules/ Device or resource busy12:37
KotCzarnybme is blocking usb networking?12:37
MaxdamantusYou need to remove any other g_ modules.12:37
Maxdamantuslike g_nokia or g_file_storage12:37
KotCzarnythx, worked12:38
MaxdamantusI don't think bme is able to block the kernel loading modules.12:38
KotCzarnyit g_file_storage was loaded even if device was in 'charging only' state12:38
Wizzupit does that, yes12:38
MaxdamantusYeah, I never understood that dialogue.12:39
Wizzupbut it just exports an empty block device then iirc12:39
KotCzarnyit should be considered a bug12:39
* Maxdamantus wants to remove that.12:39
* Maxdamantus thinks he remembers tracing it down to something in ke-recv.12:39
MaxdamantusAnnoying having the screen activate just because you plug it in to charge.12:40
KotCzarnyyeah, it should be done as status bar applet12:40
KotCzarnywith last-mode remembered12:40
* Maxdamantus loads g_ether in rcS-late, so ke-recv or whatever fails to load g_file_storage or whatever.12:41
KotCzarny  echo "$DESC: USB networking enabled, ignoring USB cable"12:41
KotCzarny  export OSSO_KE_RECV_IGNORE_CABLE=112:41
KotCzarnyi think you can play with that12:42
KotCzarny /etc/init.d/ke-recv12:42
MaxdamantusI think I already have that.12:43
Maxdamantusit still wakes the screen up and shows the dialogue.12:43
KotCzarnyi mean, to control whatever runs from hal12:43
KotCzarnythx for the ke-recv pointer, will hunt it later12:44
MaxdamantusI think I might've just stopped running ke-recv at some point, but I think that prevented the camera application from working.12:45
Maxdamantuscan't remember.12:45
MaxdamantusIt seems like the sort of stuff I don't want anyway.12:46
KotCzarnycan you still set usb mode?12:49
KotCzarny(without cmdline)12:49
MaxdamantusDunno. I've always done that using a command line.12:50
KotCzarnyie. if you plug usb, do you have a usb button in status bar?12:50
MaxdamantusWithout ke-recv? Can't remember.12:50
Wizzup11:40 < KotCzarny> with last-mode remembered12:52
Wizzupreally? ;)12:52
*** ssvb has joined #maemo12:52
KotCzarnywizzup, well, would work for 'charing only' for me12:52
KotCzarnyand enabling g_ether at all times12:52
WizzupNot when it remembers g_file_storage12:53
Wizzup(that would be annoying)12:53
KotCzarnyright now it behaves like broken g_file_storage12:53
WizzupKotCzarny: wrt usb mode, there's a very nice applet to do it12:53
KotCzarnyie. module loaded, but no driver mountable12:53
MaxdamantusDamn it, VDQ disappeared.12:53
KotCzarnyvdq not importants, ci importants12:53
MaxdamantusVDQ important if you're trying to calibrate to a new battery.12:54
KotCzarnyunless you are in the middle of calibration12:54
KotCzarnywizzup: name?12:54
Maxdamantusit went off an hour and fifteen minutes ago.12:54
KotCzarnymaxd: maybe you've connected usb or something12:55
MaxdamantusI haven't connected USB.12:55
WizzupKotCzarny: sorry, for host mode or swithing g_applets12:55
KotCzarnynah, no need for host mode (atm)12:55
KotCzarnybut i would like usb charing/storage/pcsuite mode switchable without reconnecting the cable12:56
KotCzarny(via applet button)12:56
Maxdamantusit's been saying 6% charge for four hours.12:56
Maxdamantusand is still at 3.7 V12:56
WizzupKotCzarny: right, no, the applet only allows switching initially12:56
Maxdamantus(it doesn't go lower than 6%)12:56
KotCzarnymaxd: some weird battery stup?12:56
Wizzupbut it doesn't allow switching from say 'pc suite mode' to 'none'12:56
Wizzupso then you need to use cmdline12:56
MaxdamantusNo, bq just doesn't seem to go lower than 6%12:56
KotCzarnywizzup, seems like trivial thing to write12:56
Maxdamantusso supposedly my other battery would've run out four hours ago.12:57
KotCzarnymaxd: there was some nice guide for calibrating baterries with very big differences since the last one used12:57
MaxdamantusMaybe the trick is to just use the power quickly.13:03
MaxdamantusOh, interesting. It actually does go below 6%13:04
Maxdamantusafter VDQ = 013:04
Maxdamantuswhile VDQ = 1, it was just sitting at 6% for hours.13:05
MaxdamantusThe earphones I should be getting in a couple of days have an angled connector, which should be relatively convenient for the N900.13:41
KotCzarnyone nice thing about using g_ether and not g_mass_storage will be easy file sharing13:49
KotCzarnyand it will no longer require mounting/umounting at the n900's side13:49
*** LjL has quit IRC13:50
KotCzarnyno nfsd in default cssu kernel?13:51
KotCzarnyThe program code needs 250 kByte.13:58
KotCzarnysounds doable13:58
KotCzarnylet's see if it compiles13:58
ceeneis thumb the same as thumb2?14:10
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, cssu-thumb is <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or, or
KotCzarnysee the links14:10
KotCzarnybut yes, compile wise using -thumb enables thumb214:10
ceenethat was the doubt, thanks14:11
ceeneours is a Cortex-A8?14:11
ceeneProcessor: ARMv7 Processor rev 3 (v7l)14:11
ceeneshouldn't it say ARMv8 then?14:11
KotCzarnyits different thing14:11
KotCzarnycortex-a8 is armv714:12
ceenei hate all those confusing names14:12
KotCzarnymarketing, always an evil thing14:12
KotCzarnybut mind you, if you compile with thumb, binary wont run on stock kernel14:13
KotCzarny(needs cssu or power kernel)14:13
Wizzup12:51 < KotCzarny> no nfsd in default cssu kernel?14:13
Wizzupuse sshfs?14:14
ceenei always run latest power kernel14:14
KotCzarnywizzup: can you turn off encryption with sshfs?14:14
KotCzarnyceene: just a warning if you ever compile extras app14:14
WizzupKotCzarny: yes, you can pick a none encryption.14:16
WizzupDo you see the encryption as a problem?14:16
WizzupI don't think it'll matter much unless you're sending a *LOT* of data and have a deadline14:16
KotCzarnywizzup, cpu hog14:18
KotCzarnyand unneeded when connecting via usb cable14:18
* Wizzup hates nfs14:23
WizzupKotCzarny: the stupid security model (it had/has), the fact that you usually need root for it, and I think there are much nicer solutions out there14:27
Wizzupsshfs being just one of them14:27
WizzupCould also use 9P14:27
KotCzarnyyeah, it came from time when rsh was password less14:28
KotCzarnybut on secure network it's pretty nice14:28
kerioi'm pretty sure that sshfs is even less posixy than nfs14:30
WizzupWhat does that have to do with POSIX?14:34
BCMMdon't you need root for sshfs too? i thought it's just hidden behind the SUID /usr/bin/fusermount binary14:34
WizzupBCMM: no, not at all14:35
WizzupYou interface with /dev/fuse14:35
Wizzupalthough, yes, fusermount is suid14:35
BCMMwell, sshfs doesn't work for me if i take the SUID bit off fusermount :)14:38
KotCzarnywhat a surprise14:39
WizzupBCMM: What you're stating is that using "su" also always "requires" root14:39
WizzupWhere the fact is that I, as non root user, can invoke su.14:39
WizzupThe same is true for FUSE programs.14:39
WizzupI don't need to be root to use/invoke them.14:39
WizzupI'm not sure if the fallacy is intentional14:39
BCMMfair enough. i suppose what i'm wondering is, is there a reason one couldn't have a similar system for nfs?14:40
BCMMin which a bit of SUID userspace lets a user set up an NFS mount while making sure that user doesn't put the mount anywhere he shouldn't be allowed to and so on14:40
KotCzarnyi wonder if one could sshfs mount over /usr/bin even with suid (or it has some protection)14:40
BCMMor do non-FUSE filesystems have some inherent danger that makes it impossible to set it up like that14:40
*** red723 has joined #maemo14:43
WizzupKotCzarny: or course not14:43
WizzupKotCzarny: you need to own your mountpoint14:43
WizzupBCMM: you can probably implement nfs in userspace, I guess14:43
BCMMthat's not what i meant14:43
Wizzupon my university they used this (root-only nfs) as some kind of security14:43
*** LjL has joined #maemo14:44
Wizzupof course, taking out the cable, plugging in the cable in your laptop, spoofing mac was a trivial way to access all the data/files14:44
BCMMit's that it seems, to me, like the reason you can sshfs as a normal user isn't that the driver runs as a user so much as that there is a SUID binary which will do the root stuff for you and make sure you can't do bad things14:45
Wizzupwell, mount is suid too14:45
BCMMand i'm wondering whether that is inherently impossible with a kernel-mode filesystem driver, and why14:45
WizzupI mean, you can write some suid command that does what mount does, without any checks.14:45
Wizzupbut the example I just gave is already a reason it is probably not allowed: many people rely on it (stupidly) for security14:46
KotCzarnysense of security is worse than insecurity14:47
*** BCMM has quit IRC14:52
*** ssvb has quit IRC15:01
*** sparetire_ has joined #maemo15:22
*** darkschneider has quit IRC15:44
*** darkschneider has joined #maemo15:45
Maxdamantus23:43:35 < Wizzup> BCMM: you can probably implement nfs in userspace, I guess15:48
MaxdamantusI think traditionally, they also require that you connect from a port under 1024.15:48
KotCzarnywhich is weak security measure15:48
WizzupMaxdamantus: yes, but I was not sure about that :)15:49
KotCzarnybut doable with fusermount suid15:49
MaxdamantusIt's not weak if you have complete control over the network.15:49
WizzupMaxdamantus: generally you don15:49
Wizzup't though15:49
Wizzupas I demonstrated above15:49
KotCzarnymaxd: see ethernet cable example above15:49
Maxdamantusif you can take out a network cable and plug it into your own device and use it, you don't.15:49
KotCzarnyi remember doing such tricks in my school15:50
KotCzarnyfun times15:50
KotCzarnyrootfs was nfs mounted15:50
KotCzarnyand it was as easy as booting your own os from usb or laptop15:50
KotCzarnyor even floppy15:50
KotCzarny(those were the times when kernel could fit there15:51
WizzupKotCzarny: tried ARP poisoning?15:52
WizzupThat would literally kill all machines15:52
KotCzarnyarp was set statically15:53
KotCzarnyon server15:53
KotCzarnynot that it prevented me booting my lappy15:53
KotCzarnyand accessing network15:53
KotCzarnyand i was friends with sysadmin there, so it was fun not cracking15:54
KotCzarnyi think the only way to be secure would be vpn for each machine (with secure key stored in bios and inaccessible for reading, only for signing15:55
Wizzupkerberos does this15:57
Wizzupmore or less15:57
KotCzarnyis there some virtual mass storage device for linux?16:02
MaxdamantusWhat do you mean?16:02
MaxdamantusA device you can serve with g_file_storage?16:02
MaxdamantusYou can serve any file with that.16:02
KotCzarnymore like file16:02
KotCzarnycan g_file_storage work with g_ether?16:03
KotCzarnyis there any composite driver for n900?16:03
KotCzarnywhat i'm after is to server MyDocs via tinysmb and provide minimal autorun for windows16:04
KotCzarny(to configure usb0 interface on windows and mount folder automatically)16:05
KotCzarnyhmm, for the former i just need little dhcpd16:05
KotCzarnystill, need the latter too16:05
MaxdamantusYou could serve a fuse-backed filesystem that detects a particular write pattern16:07
Maxdamantusand uses that to trigger the unloading of g_file_storage and loading of g_ether.16:07
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC16:08
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo16:09
Maxdamantus(so you include a program/script that tries to write a particular message somewhere to the virtualised filesystem, the fuse code notices that write and triggers the g_ether loading)16:09
Maxdamantus(the program/script will also configure the network once it sees the USB ethernet device)16:10
* Maxdamantus sleeps.16:10
Maxdamantuson a related note, you can sometimes hack devices like TVs using similar mechanisms.16:12
Maxdamantusdevice reads file from drive, checks its type, then rereads it to run it knowing that it's a safe type.16:13
Maxdamantuscan obviously simulate a drive that returns something else the second time.16:14
*** sunny_s has joined #maemo16:20
*** sunny_s has quit IRC16:22
WizzupKotCzarny: 9p?16:24
*** L29Ah has left #maemo16:31
*** ssvb has joined #maemo16:32
KotCzarnywizzup: hum?16:32
*** xes has quit IRC16:55
*** beford has quit IRC17:03
*** red723 has quit IRC17:08
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo17:25
*** xes has joined #maemo17:32
*** zGrr has quit IRC17:33
*** dreamer has quit IRC17:35
*** dreamer has joined #maemo17:35
Wizzup.seen pali18:08
Wizzup~seen pali18:08
infobotpali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14d 17h 20m 16s ago, saying: '~poettering'.18:08
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering:, or, or see ~systemd cabal18:08
*** L29Ah has left #maemo18:09
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo18:12
*** delphi has quit IRC18:14
*** trx has joined #maemo18:18
*** trx has quit IRC18:18
*** trx has joined #maemo18:18
*** florian has quit IRC18:27
*** totalizator has quit IRC18:30
*** totalizator has joined #maemo18:30
*** Pali has joined #maemo18:38
freemangordonPali: what was the piece of SW I was supposed to RE? some plugin iirc. jabber?18:54
*** Mek_ is now known as Mek18:58
WizzupPali: hi, I was wondering if you have usb host and nokia_modem working on your 4.1.0-rc4 kernel. I've been playing with it, and a lot just works!19:10
Wizzuplet me check the dts I guess19:14
*** ketas- has joined #maemo19:22
*** strohalm has joined #maemo19:23
*** L29Ah has quit IRC19:24
*** zama has quit IRC19:24
*** sparetire_ has quit IRC19:24
*** robink has quit IRC19:24
*** Venusaur has quit IRC19:24
*** ketas has quit IRC19:24
*** strohi has quit IRC19:24
*** robink_ has joined #maemo19:24
*** sparetire_ has joined #maemo19:24
*** zama has joined #maemo19:24
*** Venusaur has joined #maemo19:25
*** robink_ is now known as robink19:29
*** robink has quit IRC19:33
*** robink_ has joined #maemo19:38
*** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC19:39
*** eMHa__ has quit IRC19:50
*** geaaru has quit IRC20:05
*** eMHa__ has joined #maemo20:11
*** RedW has quit IRC20:13
*** RedW has joined #maemo20:15
*** vectis has joined #maemo20:31
Palifreemangordon: yes, rtcom accounts ui jabber20:55
Palisame as you did for gmail plugin20:55
PaliWizzup: usb host mode with 4.x kernel?20:55
Palinope, I did not get it working20:55
Palibut modem with Maemo sw worked (some 3.x version)20:56
*** ceene900 has joined #maemo20:59
*** ceene900 has left #maemo21:03
*** florian has joined #maemo21:06
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC21:07
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo21:08
WizzupPali: were you using nokia_modem as module or built in?21:13
Wizzupand wrt host mode: I mostly could not try because the entries in /proc were missing21:13
PaliWizzup: host - mode - becase proc is not used21:18
Palidebugfs instead21:18
Palinokia modem is .ko file21:18
WizzupPali: yes, I realised @ /proc, I was in sysfs but did not manage (yet)21:19
WizzupOkay, I get this when I probe it:
Wizzup(when I probe nokia_modem)21:19
WizzupP.s. Very happy with your kernel branch21:19
WizzupI'm slowly just trying to get each item to work21:19
Paliare you using my git branch?21:19
Palior upstream?21:19
WizzupYour branch21:19
freemangordonWizzup: try newer21:20
WizzupThere is a newer one?21:20
freemangordonnokia-modem is upstreamed iirc21:20
Wizzupright, it is, in 4.121:20
Wizzupthis is Pali's "latest" at least21:20
WizzupI will give 4.3 a try later, right now I wanted a decent defconfig and just to see if I can things to work21:21
PaliWizzup: try 4.2-rc2-n90021:21
Wizzupfreemangordon: ... hmm .. I'm an idiot :)21:21
freemangordonif you say so :P21:21
WizzupOk - will try that soon!21:21
Paliand maybe you can try to revert commit 1bb03c60d30515e590054007e64525c42884012021:21
Paliat least I have reverted it in my local copy (not pushed)21:21
Palido not remember why21:21
*** shentey has joined #maemo21:21
keriocan you use linux 4 with the current maemo userland?21:21
WizzupThat is a lot of good info.21:22
Wizzupkerio: doubt it21:22
freemangordonkerio: I see no reason why not21:22
kerioPali: -bootimg pls21:22
freemangordonWizzup: the last i've tried was 3.19 iirc21:22
Palikerio: compile yourself21:22
kerionuoooo :c21:22
Wizzupfreemangordon: ok21:22
WizzupAnyway, once I get UMTS, calls and host mode to work the real fun starts21:23
Wizzupfreemangordon: interesting21:23
WizzupI guess that was pali's?21:23
Wizzup(since powervr doesn't work with mainline, afaik)21:23
PaliWizzup: reverting that commit is needed for sscd maemo daemon to work21:24
freemangordonunfortunately lately I have no time to continue playing with it, hopefully will have soon21:24
WizzupPali: I see, I don't boot to maemo though21:24
Wizzupfreemangordon: nice :)21:24
freemangordonWizzup: yes, Pali's branch21:24
Paliand if you do not want to use maemo userspace, do not revert that commit21:24
Paliplus look at param nokia_modem.pm21:24
Paliyou need to switch it to make and export gpios for turning on/off modem21:25
WizzupWhere do I find a .pm file? (sorry for being a noob)21:25
Paliit is not file21:25
Paliit is parameter21:25
Wizzupoh, I see21:25
WizzupI thought turning on the modem was done using ofono21:25
Palimodinfo nokia_modem.ko21:25
WizzupTMYK :)21:25
Wizzup(I did not know about modinfo)21:25
Palisee /proc/cmdline21:25
WizzupBack in a bit. :)21:25
Palithat set nokia_modem param needed for maemo/sscd21:26
Paliand you need to overwrite it21:26
WizzupOk, I will once I have the device. I will be home in 60 minutes and then I can retry it21:26
freemangordonPali: hmm, seems I have done most of the jabber ui RE work21:28
freemangordonI just need to gather the pieces21:28
Wizzupfreemangordon: did you make many changes to maemo to get that kernel to boot?21:30
Wizzupslash work21:30
freemangordonWizzup: sure, but better ask Pali21:30
freemangordonhe has some scripts alreay in place21:30
WizzupI'm not too interested in maemo right now, in combination with mainline kernel21:30
infobothmm... pali is
WizzupJust wondering21:30
freemangordonhmm, unfortunately they are missing from the page21:31
WizzupNo problem21:31
WizzupI'm trying to get gentoo to work, and I'm trying to find a mobile ui for it21:32
freemangordonPali: where were those scripts that copy maemo to uSD?21:32
Wizzupso I'm quite alright for now21:32
Wizzupmostly I want to see if I can get the modem to work first21:32
freemangordonWizzup: modem works just fine, in data mode ofc21:32
Wizzupdoesn't that require ofono as well21:32
WizzupI mean, like I said, the module doesnt probe yet21:33
Wizzupfor me21:33
freemangordonyou need nokia PA modules for voice21:33
WizzupI will try it soon21:33
WizzupI have it21:33
freemangordonyep, it requires ofono21:33
freemangordonyou have nokia PA modules?21:33
freemangordonare you sure?21:33
WizzupOh, no. No. I don't21:33
WizzupI misread.21:33
freemangordonWizzup: we have 2 of 3 REed21:34
WizzupAny info on this? I mean, mailing list threads that I can read21:34
Wizzupah... cool21:34
freemangordonthe last and the most interesting (nokia-voice) is still not. and it is not a single man task21:34
WizzupI have some RE knowledge21:34
Wizzup(not a lot of time in these two weeks, but later on perhaps)21:35
freemangordonWizzup: branch fremantle21:37
freemangordonWizzup: if you want to contribute to nokia-voice module REing, I'll continue my work on it.21:38
Wizzup(I'm looking at your links)21:42
freemangordonWizzup: most of he code in voice module exists in meego nokia-voice, which is open-sourced21:43
Wizzupso this is a decompile, and now we have to rework the code?21:43
freemangordonWizzup: what is a "decompile"?21:44
freemangordonWizzup: "record" and "music" modules are fully REed and functioning21:44
WizzupI thought that this was decompiled somehow, at least, that seems to make sense21:45
Wizzupbecause of int field_244;21:45
freemangordonah, yes21:45
freemangordonit is a QIP21:45
WizzupI understood21:45
freemangordonunfinished, obviously :)21:45
freemangordonREing that structure is the most demanding task21:46
freemangordonand it is far from being done21:47
KotCzarnyhmm, does it work when compiled after decompilation?21:47
WizzupI will need some time to get some context, etc. I've mostly used maemo, not done that much development on/with maemo21:48
freemangordonKotCzarny: never tried it21:48
WizzupKotCzarny: would not be too surprised, but yeah21:48
freemangordonKotCzarny: the "working" modules are not a simple IDA decompile21:48
KotCzarnyfew times i've tried decompiling things they broke after recompilation21:48
Wizzupfreemangordon: so quite some of the source is open sourced later on in meego/nemo?21:48
freemangordonWizzup: actually I'll be surprised if it even manages to compile21:48
Wizzupin the one you linked
freemangordonWizzup: yes, but it is similar, not same21:49
WizzupI see21:49
freemangordonlots of stuff being moved to colsed blobs21:49
WizzupI think I'll go home soon (going to jump on the bike soon) so I'll be back later21:49
Wizzupfreemangordon: ah21:49
KotCzarnyalso, having a current kernel that works with fremantle would be nice for dualbooting21:49
WizzupBack later21:52
*** vakkov has quit IRC21:59
*** vakkov has joined #maemo22:00
*** Smily has quit IRC22:12
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo22:15
*** Smily has joined #maemo22:16
*** ab has quit IRC22:16
*** ab has joined #maemo22:17
*** ab has joined #maemo22:17
*** shentey_ has joined #maemo22:20
*** shentey_ has quit IRC22:24
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo22:40
*** vakkov has quit IRC22:50
*** vakkov has joined #maemo22:51
*** totalizator has quit IRC23:14
*** ketas- is now known as ketas23:19
*** txt-file has quit IRC23:22
*** totalizator has joined #maemo23:29
*** shentey has quit IRC23:36

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!