IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2015-08-23

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Sicelolandscape you mean? :)00:03
Siceloanyway, with forced rotation looks like pidgin is pretty usable .. if only the portrait keyboard was very useable too :)00:13
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stryngsTo those who might have been offended by the unmasking a couple days ago; sorry about that.  Things spun out of control somewhat.  Won't do it on the freenode again.00:16
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DocScrutinizer05no, portrait I meant, for pidgin01:17
DocScrutinizer05stryngs: huh?01:17
Palihi, do you have any experiences with assigning CVE numbers?01:17
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Paliper and debian security team can verify and coordinate security problems across distributions01:19
stryngsFunny u mention that pali01:21
stryngsI'm going to be publicly disclosing something CVE worthy here soon01:21
PaliI sent email to debian security team, so will see what happens...01:22
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stryngsFor what Pali?01:23
bencohPali: maybe sunweaver is01:24
bencoh(or rather has* experience)01:24
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DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: (blacklist) it's still a pity that those lists are actually single line keys in transitions.ini - this makes it almost impossible to handle stuff correctly and conveniently from apt/dpkg. It should be a single file (with the pathname of that file in maybe transitions.ini key blacklistfile=<full path name> and whitelistfile=<full path name>), and in that files there should be single line keys of (at least) two types: app=<appname>;01:59
DocScrutinizer05(windowtitle-or-whatever=<whatever>;) and(!) includefile=<full pathname to a file to include, or even shell pattern wildcards>01:59
DocScrutinizer05this way you could specify in transitions: blacklistfile=/etc/rotation-blacklist-root.cfg02:01
DocScrutinizer05and in /etc/rotation-blacklist-root.cfg you specify includefile=/etc/rotation.d/*.cfg02:02
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DocScrutinizer05and in /etc/rotation.d/ every app installs its own <appname>.cfg with content app=<appname>02:03
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DocScrutinizer05and a very simple config 'wizard' could rename foobar.cfg to foobar.cfg.disabled and vice versa, or even move the file from blacklist to whitelist, easily create new *.cfg files for arbitrary apps etc02:05
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DocScrutinizer05ooh, and probably the keys, instead of app=<appname>  should look like X-MAEMO-ROTATION=<allow|by-app|portrait|landscape>, and any other stuff being ignored. This way you could define includefile=/usr/share/apps/hildon/*.desktop.  Of course multiple includefile keys should be allowed02:14
bencohwell ... from I gathered, the force-rotation "feature" was only meant as a workaround and applications were to be fixed02:16
bencoh(for those that could be fixed)02:16
DocScrutinizer05some can't get fixed02:16
bencohbut those are mostly closed source, meaning either stock/nokia, or ovi02:17
DocScrutinizer05or third party02:17
bencohyeah ovi/3rd-party02:17
DocScrutinizer05anyway, doesn't make much of a difference02:18
DocScrutinizer05for the fixed apps you use X-MAEMO-ROTATION=by-app, which is also the default when no config for that app is existing in black/white-listing02:19
DocScrutinizer05the rest ships a .desktop file with either of X-MAEMO-ROTATION=<allow|portrait|landscape> in it. Or a similar file for /etc/rotation.d/*02:20
DocScrutinizer05the implementation is prolly rather simple - just a few dozen lines of code02:24
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DocScrutinizer05blacklistfile= and whitelistfile= are basically redundant then, could get unified to listfile=, and they are only valid during (and the only valid keys in} initial parsing of transitions.ini. They (it) could point to whatever file you like, even transitions.ini itself which causes a second parsing pass of transitions.ini in which those listfile= key gets ignored and only the includefile= and X-MAEMO-ROTATION= keys are searched for.02:32
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DocScrutinizer05each includefile= simply calls same parsing function recursively with the new file parameter02:35
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antranigvanyone has freepascalcompiler and/or Lazarus IDE installed on their n900? I wonder if you guys can send me the package, so I won't install/compile everything from zero, just the binaries, and the libs, and the tools, etc. (:03:09
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Wizzupantranigv: nor on my n900, no03:26
Wizzupbut I have arm versions of the compiler03:26
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antranigvWizzup: can I get it somehow?04:20
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Wizzupantranigv: hm, I guess, but I doubt it will work on maemo08:42
Wizzupdifferent glibc versions, etc08:43
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lolcatwhat is the chanel with phone people?13:46
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bencohphone people ?13:49
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Sicelohe wanted to say bencoh is a phone person, hehe14:16
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antranigvI see14:44
antranigvum, any nice tutorial to compile fpc on scratchbox?14:44
bencohread the wiki about porting debian packages14:48
bencohgrab lenny's package, and try building it14:48
antranigvoh, didn't know there is a wiki page for that...14:48
antranigv- I want to... - yes, there is a wiki page for that :P (c) maemo community14:49
bencohyou might even try to grab a more recent version, since fpc shouldnt have too many deps14:49
antranigvit doesn't have any, usually.14:49
bencohthen grab latest from debian14:50
bencohbut you'll have to work on the control and rules files14:50
antranigvwhat about compiling it from source?14:50
bencohthat's possible as well, but ... meh :)14:50
bencohbuild a package if you can14:51
antranigvand then add it to extras-devel?14:51
bencohthat's the idea :-)14:51
antranigvI still don't know how to use scratchbox, lol14:55
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bencohantranigv: there is a wiki page for that as well :D14:57
bencohonce the env is "started" it's just like a regular native system14:58
bencoh(well, almost)14:58
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antranigvwell, to have fpc on n900, fist I neeed to compile it on my x64, then to compile again on the n900, but the maemo sdk does not have a terminal in it :/15:28
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* antranigv still has much to learn...15:31
antranigvlet me read more stuff first :)))15:31
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nwolf900hi guys, I'm new to maemo, does anyone know why gTranslate keeps giving 'please enter valid text'? I've been googling it - nothing so far, stops at 'it is fixed' sometime in 2010 and nothing on it eversince... aren't there art least some working alternatives to it? thx in advance15:51
bencohapparently it stopped working a few weeks ago15:52
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antranigvmaybe the problem is from google?15:53
bencohiirc it receives a captcha to solve15:54
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nwolf900_confirmed, thx! do you think I should try to contact the author?16:05
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bencohhmm you could try that but it looks like there's already an old pending maintainer request, so ...16:11
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DocScrutinizer05lolcat: what exactly are those "phone people" you want to meet?18:47
DocScrutinizer05or rather, which phone specifically?18:48
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: xda people, the smart ones. Huawei Ascend Y-53018:48
Sicelolooks like we have the dumb ones here18:50
DocScrutinizer05antranigv: no, you cross-compile on scratchbox (X86) for maemo (ARM)18:50
DocScrutinizer05lolcat: /msg alis help18:51
bencohlolcat: most of us here are maemo users, so ...18:51
lolcatSicelo: Not really, but sadly I dont have a N900 anymore and they dont make them like that anymore18:51
DocScrutinizer05no, "they" only offer Neo900 now (for preorder, if you want one around end of year or next year's 1st quarter)18:52
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: Neo900? Oo18:52
bencohyou can buy a second-hand meanwhile ... there are some to sell around18:53
DocScrutinizer05/join #neo90018:53
* DocScrutinizer05 shouldn't do such shameless advertising18:54
kerioit's not like there's much else going on, anyway18:54
kerioand it was relevant to the discussion18:54
infobotrumour has it, oscp is
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: Uhm, the price of that thing is obscene18:56
DocScrutinizer05yes, alas not much we can do about that18:56
lolcatwhat are the specs?18:57
DocScrutinizer05well, TI built the Zoom-II with similar specs and they built it with their own chips and in qty of nE4 and they still were more expensive than we are18:58
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: also, what does it mean with debian/GNU Linux, not maemo?18:58
keriololcat: it's a BSP18:58
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: but the oneplusone has sapphire and costs far less, the proposed ubuntu phone costed two thirds and had considerably better specs18:59
kerioan install of debian with enough drivers to test the hardware, pretty much18:59
keriololcat: those won't run maemo fremantle18:59
DocScrutinizer05and did ubuntu phone happen?18:59
lolcatto test? does it have the Maemo windows and gui? can it do everything that maemo does?18:59
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: no, it cost too much18:59
bencohDocScrutinizer05: it did ... didnt it?18:59
bencoh(unless I missed something)19:00
DocScrutinizer05no, they tried to gather a bazillion preorders and STILL they were friggin expensive19:00
DocScrutinizer05we're trying to build a 500 devices19:00
DocScrutinizer05that's like the difference between a phot wallpaper and a real artist creating a painting on your wall19:01
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: but they had sapphire glass. I am willing to pay like €160 euro extra for sapphire glass19:01
keriosapphire glass won't work well with a stylus19:01
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter. We can't do that. And we don't even want crappy capacitive glass touchscreen19:01
lolcatwhy can't you?19:02
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keriobecause the screens come from n900s19:02
DocScrutinizer05please could somebody take over?19:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: thanks!19:02
keriololcat: the NeoN board is just a board19:03
keriopretty much everything else will come from a nokia n90019:03
lolcatkerio: does it support ant+?19:03
keriowtf is ant+19:03
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: yes, finally Shuttle-worth-it(?) remembered he has enough in his kitty to do such project without crowdfunding, after that crowdfunding failed, iirc19:04
DocScrutinizer05lolcat: yes, ANT and iirc ANT+ are supported19:04
keriois that some NFC crap19:04
DocScrutinizer05kerio: wireless stuff around BT19:04
keriooh, bluetooth19:05
DocScrutinizer05or WLAN19:05
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: it is neither bluetooth or wlan19:05
DocScrutinizer05can't recall right now19:05
DocScrutinizer05comes with module19:05
lolcatant+ is the garmin sensor wireless tech19:05
DocScrutinizer05the what?19:05
lolcatit is the wireless tech used by garmin sensors19:06
lolcatant+ is owned by garmin19:06
DocScrutinizer05I don't even know what's a "garmin sensor"19:06
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: pulse belt, garmin tempe (temperature sensor), garmin fotpod (obvious what this is), cadence sensor, power sensor, speed sensor and what not19:06
bencoh"proprietary (but open access)" hmm19:07
lolcatbencoh: garmin uses both private and open access ant+19:07
DocScrutinizer05it IS BLE19:07
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DocScrutinizer05and it's not 2owned by Garmin"19:07
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lolcatdoes it support NFC?19:08
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keriololcat: if only there was a website where all these things you're asking were listed19:08
bencohDocScrutinizer05: looks like it's not BLE19:08
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DocScrutinizer05not BLE exactly but handled by BT module19:09
bencohDocScrutinizer05: oh and ... does it have BLE, btw ?19:09
infobotbd is probably Bangladesh19:09
DocScrutinizer05~#neo900 bd19:09
infobotsomebody said #neo900 bd was the very fine and detailled Block Diagram, or
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: So you will not add VAT to send it to Norway?19:09
DocScrutinizer05we will add where we have to, which is a detail my tax advisor will have to work out19:10
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: So is the 990 euro for just the board or a complete unit?19:10
bencohDocScrutinizer05: riiight I can always read th specs ... :]19:10
DocScrutinizer05recently european VAT regulations are in the changing19:10
DocScrutinizer05lolcat: NeoN bare board. Add a 130 for a complete N900 we source for you and upgrade it19:11
lolcatI am pretty sure you get two N900 for 130, do you replace the battery? How is battery life on the NeoN? can I buy jut the materials for €470?19:12
DocScrutinizer05lolcat: bencoh:   2.2.4. ANT Features ................................................................................................... 719:13
DocScrutinizer05"Fully compliant with all ANT Protocols:"19:13
bencohnice, thx19:14
DocScrutinizer05>>  ANT provides immediate access to the millions of ANT+ sensors already in the market and an ongoing option for cost and power optimized sensors<<19:14
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: are you saying I can connect ant+ sensors to my phone or use my ant+ dongle as a bluetooth dongle?19:14
lolcatalso, at that price, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a dozen N900s or six  N900s and a oneplusone 2 or six n900s and a light laptop?19:16
* DocScrutinizer05 afk19:16
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: why not use high end stuff, like 4gb ram and 64gb storage?19:16
DocScrutinizer05~#neo900 bd19:17
infobot#neo900 bd is probably the very fine and detailled Block Diagram, or
keriololcat: omap3 can't do 4gb of ram19:19
DocScrutinizer05cost difference between 32GB and 64GB is ~40 bucks which we nevertheless added (and made for the higher price) since we *want* to go for specs as good as feasible19:19
kerio64gb of storage... eh, it has 32 already, and there's a µsd slot19:19
keriooh, it does have 64? neat19:19
bencohand yeah, the real bottleneck here is "omap3"19:20
DocScrutinizer05[jolla] >> The tablet comes with two memory options 32GB and 64GB, and the pre-order prices are 267 € and 299 € respectively. <<  So their difference between 32 and 64 GB eMMC is 32€19:20
lolcatbencoh: cant we use omap4?19:21
DocScrutinizer05omap4 is broken by design19:21
DocScrutinizer05...will be the processor on STEP2, when community learned how to port fremantle19:22
lolcatDocScrutinizer05: omap5 then?19:22
keriololcat: omap5 won't run fremantle19:22
lolcatwhat is fremantle?19:22
kerioat least, not immediately19:22
keriothe maemo that runs on the n90019:22
bencohkerio: actually we dont know about that19:22
bencohall we know is "some stuff migt break"19:23
lolcatkerio: why not call it maemo5?19:23
DocScrutinizer05and we also know we wouldn't fit omap5 into N90019:23
keriowho the fuck knows what maemo 5 is19:23
DocScrutinizer05or it would get even thicker19:23
lolcatomap5 is fatter than the n900?19:23
bencohkerio: everyone who owns or owned a n900 ? :D19:23
keriobencoh: same goes for fremantle, really19:24
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues fremantle19:25
infobotFactoid search of 'fremantle' by value (11): truecrypt ;; n900 #DEL# ;; infobot #maemo getversion ;; #maemo repos ;; bluetooth-profiles ;; #maemo closed ;; fptf ;; #maemo getversion ;; #maemo closed_packages ;; pr1.3 ;; pr1.3sdk.19:25
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DocScrutinizer05~forget infobot #maemo getversion19:25
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot infobot #maemo getversion19:25
infobotit has been said that fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see
infobotsomebody said getversion was input the following in a terminal:   osso-product-info | grep OSSO_VERSION | cut -d "'" -f 2; dpkg-query -W -f='${Version}  ' mp-fremantle-community-pr; uname -r19:26
infobotit has been said that pr1.3sdk is
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys pr1.19:28
infobotFactoid search of 'pr1.' by key (15): #harmattan pr1.2 ;; pr1.1 ;; pr1.2 ;; ~pr1.1.1 #DEL# ;; pr1.2 #DEL# ;; pr1.3.3.7 ;; pr1.3 #DEL# ;; pr1.3 ;; pr1.5 ;; pr1.4 ;; pr1.1.1 ;; pr1.3sdk ;; pr1.3.1 ;; pr1.6 ;; pr1.5 #DEL#.19:28
DocScrutinizer05lolcat: anyway when you want to discuss Neo900 details, you rather should /join #neo90019:32
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KotCzarnyfricking asps21:13
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Sicelowhat's a good game for N900 which i can try? something with nice 3d graphics :)21:58
KotCzarnyn-speed ?21:59
* Sicelo checks it out22:00
KotCzarnynot too good graphics though22:02
KotCzarnyhe he22:02
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Siceloi am looking at its youtube video .. yes .. the graphics .. eew22:03
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Siceloi am not a gamer anyway .. would have been nice to have some really nice games on N90022:05
* Sicelo has two Nokia N-Gage Classics (one dead though)22:05
KotCzarnyif you like puzzles search for gnurobbo22:05
KotCzarny(little atari classic)22:06
KotCzarnyanother nice one is hex-a-hop22:06
KotCzarnyand 'puzzles' for classic board puzzles22:06
Siceloi want something that's "live" ... e.g. racing. not into shooters, but would play if the graphics are great22:07
KotCzarnyi guess you should look into emulated games22:07
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KotCzarnythey are commercial quality22:08
Siceloyou're right .. i've never used emulators .. although it does seem N900 has some good emulators22:09
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bencohit does22:12
Siceloso maybe i should ask .. what are the nicest/most detailed/coolest racing games which N900 can emulate? :)22:19
Sicelowhich are also hopefully not too difficult to get22:20
KotCzarnyas usual with emus, you have to pirate it22:20
KotCzarnyunless you have original cartridges/discs22:20
* Sicelo flushed his conscience down the drain, haha22:21
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bencohanyway ... Playstation games are ... 20yo ? :))22:23
bencoha bit less for the latest22:23
Siceloumm .. 20yo means?22:23
bencoh20 years old22:23
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KotCzarnybencoh: n900's screen is small22:25
KotCzarnyand in racing games you dont have time to focus on details22:25
KotCzarnyunless you want to look at paused screens and dont care about playability22:26
bencohand why are you telling me this all of a sudden? :)22:27
KotCzarnythought that argument about games being old was kind of 'old and dusty'22:28
SiceloKotCzarny: N-Gage had even smaller screen .. it was still nice to play22:28
KotCzarnysicelo: i've used n-gage more like a phone/smart-phone than gaming console22:28
KotCzarnyit had very nice implementation of tetris tho22:28
KotCzarnyand worms22:28
Siceloi did both. actually it's the N-Gage which introduced me to smartphones .. i had been using S40 before it22:29
KotCzarnyit could have been grand22:29
bencohKotCzarny: no, it was about "pirating" 20yo games :-)22:29
KotCzarnypity they did few design flops22:29
KotCzarnybencoh: ;)22:30
Siceloi particularly enjoyed the Asphalt games, as well as Collin McRae22:30
KotCzarnymaybe there is s60 emu for n900?22:30
KotCzarnyand for plain linux? hint hint22:31
Siceloi will check .. doubt though. Symbian was something else22:32
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bencohlooks like some xda guys want it as well ^ ^22:33
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Sicelowant a symbian emu?22:35
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KotCzarnys60 is java?22:37
bencohSicelo: yeah22:38
bencohKotCzarny: probably22:38
Sicelos60 is C++22:39
Sicelobiggest problem -- memory management .. that's where the learning curve was22:39
Sicelosymbian was a glorified version of the original OS on the Psion devices22:40
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KotCzarnyi think s60 emu is blind alley22:44
KotCzarnynothing significant on google22:45
KotCzarnyoh well, sleepy time22:45
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