| freemangordon | chem|st: the point is that BMO is essentially unusable as of now, I am afraid if this is not fixed in a timely manner, noone will use BMO again. when it becomes fixed | 00:31 |
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| Tekk_ | is ovi maps supposed to be incredibly slow to load? | 00:32 |
| Tekk_ | it's been sitting on the splash for 5 minutes now at least | 00:33 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: maybe that CaCerts (whatever it is) could be used as a temporarily solution. I guess even a self-signed certificate will be better | 00:33 |
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| bencoh | yup, even selfsigned would be better | 00:45 |
| Sicelo | Tekk_: N900? no | 00:57 |
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| chem|st | freemangordon: talk to warfare pls | 01:00 |
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| freemangordon | chem|st: unfortunately he is offline, and I don;t have his email. And I guess it will be funny to send a mail to techstaff@mo :) | 01:02 |
| freemangordon | oops | 01:02 |
| freemangordon | he is online here | 01:02 |
| freemangordon | so ok, I will pester him | 01:02 |
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| chem|st | freemangordon: mail techstaff | 01:03 |
| Win7Mac | why would it be funny to send a mail to techstaff@mo? | 01:03 |
| freemangordon | because I am on the same mailing list, being a part of the techstaff ;). So I somehow expect to be able to talk to warfare and xes (our sysops) on the IRC | 01:04 |
| chem|st | true | 01:05 |
| freemangordon | however, both seem to be on a holiday, so I don't think they will start to tweak the infra with bad inet access | 01:06 |
| freemangordon | for sure xes is | 01:06 |
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| Tekk_ | Sicelo: yes | 03:24 |
| Tekk_ | sorry, had dinner and stuff | 03:24 |
| Tekk_ | I found something... | 03:24 |
| Tekk_ | cloudgps | 03:24 |
| Tekk_ | anyone use it? | 03:24 |
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| Tekk_ | well basically, does anyone know of a gps application that has voice direction | 03:35 |
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| Tekk_ | so looking at the wiki it looks like waze, navit, or mapero. has anyone tried them in the dc area? | 03:38 |
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| chainsawbike | Tekk_, modrana has voice directions | 07:43 |
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| bencoh | Tekk_: I think marble has voice direction (doesnt it ?) | 10:09 |
| Tekk_ | I don't think so | 10:09 |
| Tekk_ | isn't it just kde's marble? | 10:09 |
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| bencoh | Tekk_: dunno, there is lots of "guidance" .ogg in share/ though | 10:13 |
| Tekk_ | hm | 10:14 |
| Tekk_ | well I'm up to like 5 map apps downloaded at this point so I think one of them should work :P | 10:14 |
| bencoh | :D | 10:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | marble even recorded voices for fremantle | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd be way more interested in any of them opening with POI set to the address I just clicked in contacts | 11:17 |
| Sicelo | Tekk_: and Ovi Maps :P | 11:17 |
| Sicelo | Blaizzen & others on TMO did it.. wfm | 11:17 |
| Tekk_ | Sicelo: ovi maps doesn't work for me | 11:17 |
| Tekk_ | doesn't seem to anyway | 11:17 |
| Sicelo | ah, yes. sorry | 11:17 |
| Tekk_ | it stayed on the splash screen for over 10 minutes before I killed it :P | 11:17 |
| Tekk_ | plus it doesn't do voice navigation (at least according to the wiki) | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not without a hack | 11:18 |
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| Sicelo | the hack works very well. Ovi Maps is the *only* maps I use (having tried the others) | 11:18 |
| Sicelo | Tekk_: i wonder if something else is not also broken on your device :p | 11:19 |
| Tekk_ | Sicelo: could be | 11:19 |
| Tekk_ | but I don't see breakage with anything else | 11:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think ovi maps server is dead, or zombie, or whatever | 11:25 |
| Sicelo | hmm, but Tekk_'s problem is on-device, i think | 11:26 |
| Tekk_ | yeah, it's definitely an on-device thing | 11:26 |
| Tekk_ | I think | 11:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I wonder how long nokia supl will continue to work (if it still does) | 11:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you think? | 11:26 |
| Sicelo | my Ovi Maps is still working.. have just opened it now, and SUPL too | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think maps takes ages until it starts because it needs to connect to server | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: go offline, then try maps again | 11:28 |
| Sicelo | the one thing which i *know* is broken is the location of the maps files .. what happened is the dns name changed, and Ovi Maps still looks for Maps in old place. | 11:28 |
| Sicelo | however, if the users doesn't have maps on device already, Ovi Maps *should* open, but be blank | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which would sufficiently explan why ,aps is failing | 11:29 |
| Tekk_ | offline as in offline mode? | 11:29 |
| Tekk_ | would've thought that disables gps | 11:29 |
| Tekk_ | or just turn off the internet connection? | 11:29 |
| Sicelo | if that's the reason, he can easily try this: | 11:29 |
| Sicelo | get a windows machine, install the latest ovi suite/whatever name.. that should give him maps | 11:30 |
| Sicelo | that's how i updated mine recently | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right, offline it shows a warning, an eula (on first start) then goes completely blank and bogus | 11:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Tekk_> would've thought that disables gps)) huh? | 11:31 |
| Tekk_ | offline mode. I thought it would disable all radios | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GPS is no active RF technology. The device doesn't send to the sats ;-P | 11:32 |
| Tekk_ | okay, well... | 11:32 |
| Tekk_ | tried to start it | 11:32 |
| Tekk_ | been loading for about 3 minutes now.. | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in offline mode? | 11:32 |
| Tekk_ | yeah | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's terribly odd | 11:33 |
| Veggen | uhm...offline mode as in "airplane mode" should also disable radio receivers? | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 11:33 |
| Tekk_ | yes? | 11:33 |
| Tekk_ | oh | 11:33 |
| * Tekk_ misread Veggen | 11:33 | |
| Veggen | DocScrutinizer: No reason except regulations? | 11:33 |
| Tekk_ | I wouldn't rule that out tbh | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of such regulations | 11:33 |
| Veggen | I think I've heard that line on all my flights up to recently. "Any device containing transmitters or receivers has to be turned off throughout the whole journey" | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's bogus nonsense even when they tell that | 11:36 |
| Veggen | I agree, but it's always been that way, and that's the reason flight mode will also turn off receivers...right? | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | often they told "all electronic devices..." | 11:37 |
| Veggen | Doc: sure, but that's during takeoff and landing ;) | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think so | 11:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I never checked, always thought it's a RF-TX killswitch, and nowadays it becomes obsolete since airlines start to even allow WLAN and often even GSM on board now | 11:38 |
| Veggen | yah | 11:38 |
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| Sicelo | wow! indeed gps works in offline :P | 11:41 |
| Sicelo | i also assumed it didn't | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in the "old days" when portable electronics been rather exotic (pre-walkman) the airplanes were vulnerable to certain RF interference and first such devices (I seem to recall a diskman incident) sometimes had nasty EMI radiation that forbid using them in airplanes. Nowadays when electronic devices are ubiquitous, airplanes are hardened, and their problem nowadays is malware getting injected to flight computer via WLAN ;-P | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the definition of "receiver" is fuzzy enough anyway | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw you know that even pacemakers may contain receivers? | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | go shut down your pacemaker during start and landing please! ;-P | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and right, download of map data doesn't work at all | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so maps is completely useless now | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (unless you got complete map data cached already) | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((nokia suite)) haha - "install windoze on your PC or you cannot use maps or even flash new firmware on your linux phone" - really a great catch by M$okia | 11:52 |
| Sicelo | :D | 11:53 |
| Sicelo | if the others were as easy to use however :( | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know what I had done instead of buying my first N900 (or even N810) when they had that policy back when? | 11:54 |
| jaska | also, if you consider bio-electronic devices | 11:54 |
| jaska | then youd have to shut down a whole lot more :) | 11:54 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: bought an OM? | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not. Think I had ~12 back when | 11:55 |
| * Sicelo will re-read the wiki pages about GPS applications.. all i need is voice nav. & offline maps (which are relatively good for southern africa) | 11:59 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | offline-nav with voice, I guess | 12:15 |
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| zGrr | moin :) | 14:26 |
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| zipR4ND | hi all, recently got an old n900, now i ask myself and the internet what ist the way to get the most up-to-date linux (preferably based on debian-wheezy) on my phone and still be able to use it as a phone ... | 15:58 |
| joga | I'd say don't bother, just put the cssu maemo there and if you want debian, run it with easydebian in chroot or something | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like a hidden XY-problem. Why do you need most up-to-date linux, to start with? | 15:59 |
| zipR4ND | joga: are there any easydebian builds for wheezy? | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we need to know what's X, I.E. what you want to do so you think you need most recent linux to achieve that | 16:00 |
| joga | zipR4ND, dunno, see here http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian#Debian_.22wheezy.22_images | 16:00 |
| zipR4ND | thxx joga | 16:01 |
| joga | (note that if you do put easydebian and the image, it's a fairly long and unstable process, ie. you cannot do anything with the phone while it extracts the image and it may crash when writing to the card | 16:01 |
| zipR4ND | I just want up to date security packages, and luksFS and i want to be able to install just any app i would want to install on my desktop | 16:01 |
| joga | but it may just work if you leave it alone for a couple of hours | 16:01 |
| joga | well you can just forget about most of that | 16:02 |
| joga | (unless of course your desktop is Arm also) | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu | 16:02 |
| infobot | it has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 16:02 |
| joga | my hunch is that maemo, with all its flaws, is the only usable (as a phone) OS for the phone | 16:02 |
| zipR4ND | joga: i see | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what flaws? | 16:03 |
| joga | well mostly UI unfriendliness and "linuxy" "features" that make it quite unenjoyable for a "normal" person | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errr | 16:03 |
| joga | while I personally like it ok after using it for years, but try giving it to a random iphone user and they're lost | 16:04 |
| joga | (and so am I with an iphone) | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you think this will get better when you install e.g. gnome or kde on that tiny screen? | 16:04 |
| joga | certainly not | 16:04 |
| joga | what I said was that it's the best there is | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure | 16:05 |
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| joga | I actually wanted to run wireshark on it and, well, it did work but the UI is pretty cramped with such a tiny screen | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it's sufficiently up to date as well, for all that really matters, when you use cssu | 16:05 |
| joga | full of gtk widgets and stuff | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and for running genuine PC linux apps, there's still easydeb | 16:07 |
| TheOnlyJoey|desk | zipR4ND, i recently installed a wheezy chroot using a specific image, let me find it for you | 16:07 |
| zipR4ND | TheOnlyJoey|desk: thxx | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | while generally you want to adapt and compile your app for fremantle/hildon | 16:08 |
| TheOnlyJoey|desk | zipR4ND, i used http://qole.org/files/debian_wheezy3sulu_armhf.img.lzma but you have to use the kernel-power kernel to get it working, since that supports hf | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless it's a cmdline binary which usually just need compiling on scratchbox and off you go | 16:08 |
| zipR4ND | DocScrutinizer is there a nice tutorial on how to setup a dev environment for the hildon desktop? and thxx very much TheOnlyJoey|desk | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there is | 16:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation | 16:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or simply get | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~sb | 16:10 |
| infobot | scratchbox is probably a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | VM | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you really want native SB (not VM), here you are: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | zipR4ND: NB you're not supposed to build on device. You build on PC for target platform | 16:17 |
| zipR4ND | i know ... | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then get merlin's VM image and profit :-) | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (It's not actually "merlin's", it's just the original one) | 16:19 |
| zipR4ND | where do i get merlins vm :) | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~sb | 16:20 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~tabletsdev | 16:21 |
| infobot | it has been said that tabletsdev is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ http://wiki.maemo.org/Tabletsdev , http://tabletsdev.maemo.org (all defunct, thanks Nokia) or the nice site http://www.fladnag.net/downloads/telephone/n900/tools/, or http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/93.81.63.203/repositories/skeiron.org/skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads | 16:21 |
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| zipR4ND | cool, thanx for all the information | 16:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | lol, Mrs MONGOLISCHIMEL has to discuss a project with me. Gotta love some of them spams, really | 16:25 |
| plazmonii | lol | 16:25 |
| M4rtinK | at least the spam is localized :) | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Mrs MONGOLIS CHIMEL - SIC! and signature is concatenated | 16:27 |
| Veggen | I read somewhere that some of those were malformed/badly translated on purpose, as it's only those with low education etc that actually fell for them anyways, so they wanted to weed out those that for example knows how to spell. | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, won't help however for those who have their fun with spammers | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a quite popular "sport" already | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pick some spammer and drive him mad | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | feed them their own medicine | 16:31 |
| kerio | relevant: http://www.419eater.com/ | 16:31 |
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| honestly | .win 44 | 16:39 |
| honestly | augh | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: thanks! :-) | 16:40 |
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| Snafu777 | DocScrutinizer05: Earlier you mentioned not building on the n900 itself, why not? | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too slow | 17:10 |
| Snafu777 | Oh, but other than that, no bad issues? | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, you can't use your device for a week | 17:10 |
| Snafu777 | Heh, I build on mine for everything, but then again, most of the programs I build are small and not that intensive | 17:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and odds are you're wearing out the swap | 17:11 |
| Snafu777 | hmm | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | remember that you got some max 100MB free for the compiler | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possibly less | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and swap is slooooow | 17:13 |
| bencoh | dead slow | 17:14 |
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| Snafu777 | Heh | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you can compile ddate in a easydeb or other chroot (you'll run into trouble trying to install all the libs in real root fs which also is only 245MB total) | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for anything larger than that I'd not even bother | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: ddate | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: Today is Boomtime, the 56th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3180 | 17:17 |
| Snafu777 | See the part about wearing out swap definately had me concerned. Wasn't it you who said way back when that I shouldnt be concerned about wearing out the hardwear, that the writes available were a ton and whatnot? | 17:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's true for all *normal* usecases, but for sure not for running a gcc swapping like hell for a week (literally) | 17:18 |
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| Snafu777 | Oh, see the stuff i do compiles in under an hour =) | 17:19 |
| Snafu777 | Ok, no worries then =) | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, no worries with that | 17:19 |
| Snafu777 | what the hell would u try to compile on it that would take a week? | 17:19 |
| norayr | hey hey, I am trying to uninstall kernel-power and I do steps described here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power#Uninstalling_kernel-power, | 17:19 |
| norayr | I did apt-get install --reinstall -y kernel kernel-flasher okay | 17:20 |
| Snafu777 | heh, why would u try to uninstall it norayr? | 17:20 |
| norayr | but the apt-get remove -y kernel-power kernel-power-modules wants to uninstall 700 packages. | 17:20 |
| norayr | because I need uboot-pr13 | 17:20 |
| norayr | which does not work with kernel-power, right? | 17:20 |
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| norayr | I need to boot into nemo. | 17:20 |
| Snafu777 | No idea. WHy not just flash? I don't think u can easily uninstall it | 17:21 |
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| grammoboy | good idea to buy an n9 and put sailfish on it? | 17:21 |
| kerio | if you're uninstalling 700 packages, then you probably have cssu-thumb installed | 17:21 |
| kerio | do you? | 17:21 |
| norayr | minute | 17:21 |
| kerio | anyway, you don't need to uninstall kernel power | 17:22 |
| norayr | hmmmm, okay | 17:22 |
| kerio | do you have cssu-thumb installed? | 17:22 |
| norayr | but I cannot have uboot otherwise. | 17:22 |
| norayr | no I don't have it | 17:22 |
| kerio | iirc u-boot-flasher installs just fine | 17:23 |
| kerio | it'll just overwrite the flashed kernel | 17:23 |
| norayr | let me try... | 17:23 |
| kerio | and then you just install kernel-power-bootimg | 17:23 |
| norayr | installing u-boot-flasher. I was installing uboot-pr13 before. | 17:24 |
| kerio | yeah, uboot-pr13 is not the supported version afaik | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's the name of that app that you can ask google via voice? | 17:25 |
| norayr | i have already removed kernel-power and kernel-power-modules | 17:25 |
| norayr | should i install them back or install kernel-power-bootimg makes it? | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never remove kernels | 17:25 |
| norayr | yes it makes it | 17:25 |
| kerio | i think the bootimg will bring back the modules at least | 17:26 |
| norayr | and i will have u-boot after it? i hope so. | 17:26 |
| kerio | sure | 17:26 |
| norayr | because my usb is broken, and I have asked someone to change the battery for me. | 17:26 |
| kerio | ...your usb is broken | 17:27 |
| kerio | and you're playing with kernels | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-o | 17:27 |
| * kerio wants nothing to do with this shit | 17:27 | |
| norayr | and I want to use nemo in order to copy all the data from /home etc | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, extremely risky business | 17:27 |
| norayr | and then erase smth in home and give it to someone to try to fix it. | 17:27 |
| norayr | (: | 17:27 |
| kerio | to be fair, after the install it's going to be a bit sturdier | 17:27 |
| kerio | norayr: i hope you're aware that maemo can copy files and then delete everything | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd install BM | 17:28 |
| kerio | i really don't know why you think you need a different OS | 17:28 |
| kerio | such a shitty one, too | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | there's like a megaton of ways to save /home | 17:28 |
| kerio | if you want to do heavy duty maintenance you probably want rescueOS | 17:28 |
| kerio | but that's for stuff like repartitioning | 17:28 |
| kerio | and it's fairly awful to use without usb networking | 17:29 |
| norayr | yeah, sure. just I thought it's better to use that because /home contents gets changed at runtime. so some files might be corrupted, like abook.db etc. | 17:30 |
| kerio | fair enough | 17:30 |
| kerio | but meh | 17:30 |
| kerio | it's close to pulling the battery out, to be honest | 17:30 |
| norayr | okay, anyway, I'll copy it under maemo, it's indeed better. thank you. | 17:31 |
| kerio | and i hope stuff is resilient enough | 17:31 |
| kerio | norayr: fix your flashed stuff tho | 17:31 |
| norayr | yep | 17:33 |
| norayr | (: | 17:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | do a proper standard backup, which will save all files that might be "open" during maemo mounted home | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | abook.db for sure | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | save the backup to card, not to phone | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then use cp -ar ~user /media/card/mybackup | 17:38 |
| norayr | okay. | 17:38 |
| norayr | doing it, thank you. | 17:38 |
| * Snafu777 is sad. His USB port is good, but the SD card drive is all busted up | 17:39 | |
| Snafu777 | Oh well, usb is more useful than sd... | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 17:39 |
| norayr | that's my second n900's usb port already. | 17:39 |
| norayr | i've heard about someone who have managed to fix one n900's usb. | 17:39 |
| norayr | hope he can do it. | 17:39 |
| Snafu777 | Heh, i've been lucky, i'm on my 2nd or third n900 and i've never had a usb port issue | 17:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 neither | 17:40 | |
| norayr | and I have read about it and always were so careful. | 17:40 |
| Snafu777 | I think maybe people are just violent with it | 17:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 pulls out USB plug by fingernails | 17:40 | |
| Snafu777 | I treat my n900 with the respect due a WWII vet | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | business idea: sell USB puller tool | 17:41 |
| Snafu777 | hah | 17:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, saera been the name. And it works not the way I thought, but maybe even better than that | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84753 | 18:37 |
| sixwheeledbeast | usb puller tool? just file the prongs off the cable. | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh! | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is wrong in so many ways | 18:38 |
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| * kerio has no exposed fingernails | 18:41 | |
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| * drathir wonder in what way android serve boot images by usb connection its software emulate dvd/usb hdd drive? | 18:45 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (fingernails) and what's maybe more important factor for no USB fatalities: never grab the USB plug on the wide sides | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can also pull it out without using (non-existent) fingernails, by simply grabbing the small sides with your winger tips and then pressing and rolling the fingertips against the case body | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I always pull my USB plugs this way on N900. It's btw the only way that needs no second hand holding the device | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | left hand thumb and index finger "squeezing out" the USB plug | 18:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as you need a second (right) hand you're prone to doing harm to the USB by applying levering force to the plug | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140721_002.mp4 | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~unplug-usb is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140721_002.mp4 | 19:07 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | never hold the USB plug by "key-grip" (between tip of thumb and 2nd joint of index finger), it may already break from holding it that way, you don't even need to try and pull it out for it to break | 19:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | To:calamity@maemo . org I really wonder where the heck those fools get their spam adresses | 19:20 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if there are mail addresses to forward spam to, so they can get files as spam by some central service | 19:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/files/filed/ | 19:22 |
| r00t|home | you also have the d->s bug in your keyboard, eh? | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | among others | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think my keys all have some heissenberg fuzziness in them | 19:24 |
| r00t|home | you have a s -> ss bug there | 19:25 |
| r00t|home | your keys are quantum-scale? must be a really tiny device ;) | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 19:25 |
| kerio | i bet it's a neo900 prototype | 19:26 |
| kerio | in a superposition of existing and not existing | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: how do you like my video? | 19:28 |
| kerio | link? | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~usb-unplug | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~unplug-usb | 19:28 |
| infobot | rumour has it, unplug-usb is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20140721_002.mp4 | 19:28 |
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| r00t|home | that's how i naturally unplug it... | 19:41 |
| r00t|home | problem is, the more likely reason for failure is the device dropping from the table while charging | 19:41 |
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| r00t|home | probably wrong channel, but can somebody suggest a mobile device with a more ergonomic keyboard that still fits in a pocket? like a psion 5 maybe, but a bit more modern | 19:43 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: make that a webm pls | 19:46 |
| kerio | nvm i'll do it | 19:47 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: https://acehack.de/~kerio/20140721_002.webm | 19:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: sorry, no idea | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: doesn't play in VLC, unlike the .mp4 | 20:03 |
| kerio | but it plays in firefox | 20:04 |
| kerio | also it plays in vlc here | 20:05 |
| r00t|home | VIDEO: [VP80] 848x480 0bpp 29.895 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s) | 20:05 |
| r00t|home | Selected audio codec: [ffvorbis] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg Vorbis) | 20:05 |
| r00t|home | the resolution seems a bit excessive given the subject... btw, did you shoot that with a second n900? ;) | 20:06 |
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| kerio | and that was the day #maemo realized that doc ran debian lenny and had an ancient version of VLC | 20:06 |
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| bencoh | :) | 20:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | pah | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | r00t|home: sure. Even with the first ;-) | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | VLC 2.1.5 whatever that means for the plugins | 20:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and you meanwhile should know that I don't use apt or FF on my PC | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/21/plasma-desktopwR1814.png | 20:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what's a webm btw | 20:37 |
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| bencoh | google-sponsored royalty-free container | 20:42 |
| bencoh | (audio/video container I mean) | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as if we need a dozen more | 20:42 |
| bencoh | I'd rather have chosen mkv for html5 but meh, they didnt make that choice | 20:43 |
| kerio | mh, isn't mkv a bit too heavy for stuff like web videos? | 20:47 |
| kerio | realistically, you won't need 2 video streams and 7 audio streams with 14 subtitles | 20:48 |
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| Humpelstilzchen | kerio: why not? | 20:49 |
| Humpelstilzchen | people in my country like having the video in their language | 20:50 |
| elias_a | kerio: Where are you from? | 20:50 |
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| elias_a | kerio: I guess Spadolini is an Italian name... | 20:51 |
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| elias_a | kerio: In Finland where I live we have 3 languages used in tv programmes. | 20:53 |
| kerio | 1) dubs ruin art | 20:53 |
| kerio | 2) embedding every language in a single file means that you have to download all audio streams regardless | 20:53 |
| kerio | which is suboptimal, for something that's supposed to be "web video" | 20:53 |
| elias_a | kerio: Sports events are always commented in 2 languages, finnish and swedish. | 20:53 |
| elias_a | kerio: So how do you watch content shown on tv using the web service? | 20:55 |
| kerio | no clue | 20:55 |
| Humpelstilzchen | .o0(flash) | 20:55 |
| elias_a | kerio: They are now including subs. | 20:55 |
| kerio | either a separate audio stream, but then you have sync issues | 20:55 |
| kerio | or two different video streams | 20:55 |
| kerio | but then you can't freely switch between languages | 20:55 |
| elias_a | kerio: Do you live in a monolingual country? | 20:56 |
| kerio | i do | 20:56 |
| kerio | but i don't see how that's relevant in a discussion about the efficiency of a media container designed for web browsers | 20:56 |
| elias_a | This discussion is quite interesting because these issues are quite meaningful in multilingual countrise. | 20:57 |
| elias_a | kerio: I can understand that. What I'm telling you is that a media container that cannot handle multiple languages in both audio and subs is useless in multilingual countries. | 20:58 |
| elias_a | Of course you can go the imho idiot's way like in Belgium: different tv channels for different language audiences and that's it. | 20:59 |
| elias_a | But, imho that is just dead stupid. | 20:59 |
| kerio | if efficiency is an issue you simply can't send all the audio streams together in a single bundle | 21:00 |
| elias_a | kerio: The real question is whether technical efficiency is more important than language support. | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, we need more efficiency. We get LTE now, and octocores in mobile equipment. We damn sure better create something efficient now ;-P | 21:01 |
| kerio | 8 cores, 2 of which are used by the modem chip | 21:01 |
| Humpelstilzchen | .o0(sports game with different commentators) | 21:01 |
| elias_a | kerio: The answer is really simple: language support is far more important. | 21:02 |
| elias_a | Humpelstilzchen: What's so odd about that? :O | 21:02 |
| kerio | yeah | 21:03 |
| kerio | it's kinda neat | 21:03 |
| elias_a | Humpelstilzchen: The logic is simple: we have a language minority a part of which really do not understand Finnish. | 21:05 |
| elias_a | Humpelstilzchen: It is relatively cheap to have an extra commentator speaking Swedish. | 21:05 |
| elias_a | And it is far more simple than negotiating with the swedes about co-operation :D | 21:06 |
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| bencoh | kerio: that's the only unencombered container to my knowledge | 21:37 |
| bencoh | (more open than webm btw) | 21:37 |
| bencoh | oh, and ... they dont use webm for live tv anyway | 21:38 |
| bencoh | (they use hls, dash, smooth, or hds ... which are all encombered and/or proprietary at some point) | 21:39 |
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| kerio | is there a fully-open video streaming solution? | 21:53 |
| TheOnlyJoey|desk | kerio, multiple | 21:59 |
| TheOnlyJoey|desk | kerio, i think you mean something for twitch and such? | 21:59 |
| kerio | no, i mean | 21:59 |
| kerio | codecs and transport | 21:59 |
| kerio | can theora be streamed? | 22:00 |
| TheOnlyJoey|desk | well, everything can be streamed technically | 22:00 |
| kerio | is rtmp an open standard? | 22:00 |
| TheOnlyJoey|desk | but theora gets used for streaming quite a lot | 22:00 |
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| bencoh | rtmp is not | 22:06 |
| bencoh | adobe released a partial spec and drafts | 22:06 |
| bencoh | dash is mpeg2 stuff | 22:06 |
| bencoh | I mean MPEG consortium | 22:07 |
| bencoh | hls is mpeg-ts based | 22:07 |
| bencoh | hds and smooth are proprietary | 22:07 |
| bencoh | the best you can do is stream theoray/mkv stuff over http :p | 22:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no, not everything can get streamed | 22:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | some formats are braindead and have important info at end of file | 22:18 |
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| bencoh | indeed :) | 22:20 |
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