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| Psi | cool, that short i had on my n900 USB VCC to USB D- was the connector itself | 08:13 |
|---|---|---|
| Psi | just unsoldered it and the short is gone | 08:13 |
| Psi | so now the question is, has this short damaged the USB driver or not | 08:13 |
| Psi | hopefully D- is 5v tolerant i/o | 08:16 |
| ecc3g | i've seen some USB power outlets that have D+ shorted to D- which is in turn shorted to +5 ... | 08:20 |
| Psi | cool that would point to them being 5v tolerant | 08:22 |
| ecc3g | or that power outlet manufacturer wants to blow up devices :D | 08:22 |
| Psi | we will see soon enough | 08:26 |
| Psi | wiring up a usb cable to USB D- D+ GND VCC pads | 08:26 |
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| Psi | ok, im calling it, this N900 is deceased | 10:50 |
| Psi | S/N 356938031287163 2010 - 2014 | 10:54 |
| Psi | RIP | 10:55 |
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| Humpelstilzchen | what have you done? :( | 11:08 |
| * joga lits candle | 11:08 | |
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| Psi | Humpelstilzchen: it just stopped detecting USB cable for charging or data | 11:42 |
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| Psi | so i installed another kernel (incase the power kernel i had installed a few weeks back was causing usb issues) except i must have installed the wrong one because it wouldnt boot at all after that | 11:43 |
| Psi | so now it wont boot and pc cant detect USB to reflash it | 11:44 |
| Psi | i removed usb socket (it had a short between D- and VCC) and soldered directly to the test pads instead. But PC still cant recognise the usb device | 11:45 |
| Psi | i think the short to VCC damaged the usb chip | 11:45 |
| bencoh | and ... you dont have uboot on it ? | 11:45 |
| Psi | nope, no boot menu | 11:45 |
| Psi | i used to have one, but last month it stopped booting and i had to do a full hardware reset so lots all that stuff | 11:46 |
| Psi | i hadnt got around to putting it back on | 11:46 |
| Psi | otherwise yeah, could boot from usd | 11:46 |
| Psi | if i had a BGA rework station i could probably unsolder the flash chip and reflash the kernel externally but meh, too much effort | 11:47 |
| Psi | plan to buy a LG g3 when it comes out next month | 11:47 |
| hurrian | Psi: you'd need one hell of a rework station, the OneNAND is on top of the OMAP, and the pads are /tiny/ | 11:48 |
| Psi | true, the kernel is on the oneflash isnt it, not the 32gb flash | 11:49 |
| hurrian | i've got a OMAP3530 on my desk, and trying to focus on any features hurts my head, I need a loupe. | 11:49 |
| Psi | could also probably fix it if i knew the jtag headers and specs | 11:50 |
| hurrian | you'll probably just want to chuck the N900 in a drawer and wait until you're motivated to put on a new USB port :P | 11:50 |
| bencoh | or replace it with a neo900 board | 11:51 |
| Psi | na, ive already soldered to the USB test pads and tried it, its definitly dead | 11:51 |
| Psi | i also found one loose smt cap in the FM TX section and one ESD chip broken while i was looking at the usb socket | 11:52 |
| Psi | its possible one of those loose bits caused the problem by shorting something | 11:52 |
| hurrian | if you've got the massive balls and 1337 h4xx0r skills to do so, rip out the OneNAND, put back the PoP DRAM, and try to flash x-loader using omapflash to the eMMC :D | 11:53 |
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| hurrian | come to think of it, we probably should've asked OSSO that some time ago - enable OMAP ROM booting from USB! | 11:55 |
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| Psi | how does omapflash work? | 12:08 |
| Psi | nevermind | 12:09 |
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| Psi | is there a rough idea what the neo900 upgrade board will cost? | 12:12 |
| bencoh | around 500 afaik | 12:13 |
| bencoh | maybe more | 12:13 |
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| Psi | 1ghz isnt really fast enough | 12:15 |
| Psi | a n900 overcloked to 1ghz is still quite slow at some things | 12:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hurrian: attach your N900 to a linux PC, check syslog of PC. You'll find "ROM boot" enumerating | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hurrian: that's how coldflash works | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: 700 | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and sorry for that, but that's actaully what it costs to build such thing | 13:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we're not buying the chips from TI in 100k qty | 13:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | NB this is still only an educated estimation, we don't know yet what it will cost in the end, since it's not finalized yet | 14:00 |
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| Psi | yeah, i wasnt bitching at the price | 14:12 |
| Psi | i expect about that | 14:12 |
| Psi | due to low qty | 14:12 |
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| bencoh | hmm, what would one use to fetch/parse json in a maemo/hildon app ? | 14:26 |
| bencoh | is there some simple api or is it back to roots with libjson and curl/gsoup ? | 14:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: you probably could flash via the test pads under battery, using phenix software and a jtag rig | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: anyway the OMAP should enum on USB during power-on | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no NAND or kernel involved in that | 14:40 |
| Psi | yeah, but i suspect my usb port driver is damaged | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that would be 1704/1707 PHY then | 14:43 |
| Psi | yeah | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | D4280 | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in schematics | 14:44 |
| Psi | D- got shorted to VCC on connector (must have been something metalic jammed under connector) | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *should* not kill the 1707 | 14:44 |
| Psi | i unsoldered the usb connector and the short went away but the usb still doesnt work | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | are you sure the USB connector itself isn't damaged? | 14:45 |
| Psi | probably | 14:46 |
| Psi | but i used the usb test pads with the connector unsoldered (short problem fixed) and my PC still cannot recognise the usb device | 14:47 |
| Psi | any idea what component is, i suspect ESD protection http://psi.abcom.co.nz/n900pcb.jpg | 14:47 |
| Psi | i found it to be smashed in half when looking at usb socket. Its right near where the stylis tip ends up inside the case which is a bit suspicious. I suspect it has nothing to do with usb prob | 14:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, apart from my SIM card I see there: V6180 FMTX Ant ESD protector | 14:51 |
| Psi | hehe yeah, grabbed pic from goggle image search hehe | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FMTX largely unrealted to USB ;-) | 14:53 |
| Psi | yeah | 14:53 |
| Psi | whats interesting is that windows detects that the usb device is malfuntioned as soon as i plug it in, before even the n900 starts up in usb mode (pressing u key) | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but that component being damaged indicates some severe abuse of device | 14:54 |
| Psi | i wouldnt call being dropped 3 times in its life abuse | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please check with linux, watch syslog! | 14:55 |
| Psi | http://pastebin.com/949NjWzL | 14:56 |
| Psi | however, that's when it was shorted, ive not tried it in linux since fixing the short | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know there are diagnostic tools for USB on windows, but I don't know s*t about windows | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | USB is not tolerant to bad wiring | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even some regular USB cables smetimes might introduce data errors so ENUM fails | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when poor cable quality | 14:59 |
| hurrian | mmm, negotiates speed at Low Speed/1.0, cables might be the culprit after all | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | D+ and D- form a differential 50Ohm(?) line, which means the two wires must run parallel in always same distance and no sharp bends or other incontinuities | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hurrian: right | 15:00 |
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| Psi | this is with short fixed http://pastebin.com/SzXkMyPc | 15:01 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: are you saying that my 0.20€ chinese usb cable is not certified? D: | 15:02 |
| dos1 | (differential line) ah, that explains a lot :) | 15:02 |
| dos1 | I have some cheap Y-cable with mini and micro plugs at its two ends, and I wondered why it's working randomly | 15:03 |
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| dos1 | it's great for charging anyway ;) | 15:04 |
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| Psi | na i soldered a 20cm usb cable to the pads, i doubt its a cable issue | 15:07 |
| Psi | http://psi.abcom.co.nz/n900cable.jpg | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that looks like a massive incontinuity in D+/- lines | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might work, but not guaranteed to do | 15:14 |
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| Psi | you think i should twist them right up until the pads? | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | keep them parallel and straight (without sharp bends) | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and don't approach the steel too much, next to the pads | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw soldering to the battery contact blades is begging for later trouble. The tin coating never makes proper contact to the battery, since it oxidizes | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask SpeedEvil | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but probably you really have a problem in your N900 hardware. Just the question is, what exactly | 15:19 |
| Agge | Doc did I tell you that I got 3 china nokia chargers that have the same serial numbre | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol, nice | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though it's questionable if chargers actually have a SERIAL-number | 15:22 |
| Agge | original nokia ones do | 15:22 |
| Agge | opened one and an original nokia one and it was a masive difference in the build quality | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems applying an individula unique number to every single charger is overkill and too expensive even for genuine original nokia chargers | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, opening is a good proof | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 15:23 |
| Agge | the original one that I opened also had a serial numbre | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do you have two originals that have different serial? | 15:24 |
| Psi | yeah i knew soldering batt things was bad, but i was careful to only put solder on the top, not on the surface that touches the battery | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: smart! :-) | 15:24 |
| Agge | Psi: or further down then the battery touch? | 15:25 |
| Agge | not from the same production line. have acces to one old round and own one that was dilivered with my old N900 | 15:25 |
| Agge | microusb one | 15:25 |
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| Psi | http://psi.abcom.co.nz/n900cable2.jpg | 15:27 |
| Psi | 2nd attempt | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | carefully removing tin by desolder braid, and then with some weak acid (I'm not a good at chemicals, maybe HCl) should also fix solder problems on blades, by removing solder but not really ruining the gold coating | 15:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: that looks much better, yes | 15:28 |
| Psi | exactly the same responce in logs | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possibly parts of the protective gear on D+/- got fried | 15:30 |
| Psi | i had a look on the scope when it had the shorted problem | 15:31 |
| Agge | Psi: are you using a original nokia battery or an aftermarket one? | 15:31 |
| Psi | origonal | 15:32 |
| Agge | hade some problems with aftermarket ones | 15:32 |
| Psi | well.. a lab psu atm, so no batt at all | 15:32 |
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| Psi | as soon as i connect vbat power i get the white nokia logo screen, then it goes back for a few sec, vibrates and starts again with the white screen | 15:33 |
| Psi | back=black | 15:34 |
| Psi | pressing U gets the USB logo | 15:34 |
| Agge | exactly what hapened with one phone when I tryed to use a aftermarket battery | 15:34 |
| Psi | but thats about all ive seen it do | 15:34 |
| Psi | i wonder if it doesnt like the missing temp sensor wire being disconnected | 15:35 |
| Agge | exactly what do the third battery conector pin do? | 15:35 |
| Agge | migh be some risistance or somthing that needs to be ablied for it to like the battery? | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: definitely a problem | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (missing BSI) | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 80kR to ... GND(?) | 15:36 |
| Psi | i dont think thats the cause of the usb issue though | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NOLO already checking BSI | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | there's even a special "test battery" that switches device into debug mode via special resistor value on BSI | 15:37 |
| Agge | Psi: what about the lab suply and usb conection to a computer? | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | JTAG jig also has a special BSI resistor | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | APE *and* modem +both* check BSI value | 15:38 |
| Psi | Agge: ? | 15:38 |
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| Agge | Psi: did you get any difference to the syslog output after you begun using the lab power suply insted of a battery? | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: attach 70..80kR BSI - GND! | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's probably unrelated to your USB trouble, but for sure introduces even more random weird effects when BSI is missing | 15:40 |
| Psi | Agge: ah, not sure | 15:41 |
| Psi | its a good question though | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please test with linux PC and powered down N900 | 15:41 |
| Psi | i have put 100R onto BSI (same as offical bat) | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should see a proper Omap ROM Boot ENUM | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WUT??? | 15:41 |
| Psi | sorry 100k | 15:41 |
| Agge | Psi: I would also test if I wold be able to get the rescue os to boot | 15:42 |
| Psi | i measued the offical batt and got 100k | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, original pat has 75..80 | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but irrelevant | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 100k works too | 15:42 |
| Psi | Agge: rescue os? | 15:42 |
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| Agge | an image that boot loads into ram and boot the phone from it. I found it a good way to see if stuff wants to work att all | 15:43 |
| Agge | ~rescueos | 15:43 |
| Agge | I am probibly spelling it wrong :( | 15:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, you're right. 99.8k on one of my batt | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot dead | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mompls | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should be back soon | 15:46 |
| Agge | wont do anything if the flacher cant see the phone. but when you tested most logical things it is time to try the strange ideas :) | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 15:47 |
| Psi | slightly different behavour with 100R | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Agge: doesn't make sense when USB doesn't even enumerate | 15:47 |
| Psi | 100k damnit | 15:47 |
| Agge | yeah sorry | 15:47 |
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| infobot | DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! | 15:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wb | 15:48 |
| infobot | thx | 15:48 |
| Psi | logs on pc are the same, but with the 100K i can get to the non backlit nokia logo screen | 15:48 |
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| Psi | before it would always start on the white one | 15:48 |
| Psi | i cant seem to get the phone to actally turn off | 15:48 |
| Psi | its either in usb mode or doing infinite reboots | 15:49 |
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| Agge | Psi: shut of the PSU for at least one minute? | 15:50 |
| Psi | the phone always starts automatically when you insert a battery | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:49:59.996024+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037151.880303] usb 2-1.5.3: new high-speed USB device number 11 using ehci-pci | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:00.082030+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037151.966356] usb 2-1.5.3: unable to get BOS descriptor | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:00.083027+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037151.967541] usb 2-1.5.3: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0106 | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:00.083030+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037151.967545] usb 2-1.5.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=34, Product=38, SerialNumber=0 | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:00.083030+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037151.967548] usb 2-1.5.3: Product: Nokia USB ROM | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:00.083031+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037151.967551] usb 2-1.5.3: Manufacturer: Nokia | 15:50 |
| Psi | yeah, i know what it supposed to do | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that however it is supposed to do from ROM Bootloader, *unconditionally* (unless hw is defect) | 15:51 |
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| Agge | Psi: yeah but I have found that even if you remove the battery it wont start corectly unless you leve it unconected for a minute or so | 15:52 |
| Psi | i should trace the d- and d+ back to the usb driver chip | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while this is NOLO already: | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:00.586041+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037152.469920] usb 2-1.5.3: USB disconnect, device number 11 | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:01.276026+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037153.159029] usb 2-1.5.3: new high-speed USB device number 12 using ehci-pci | 15:52 |
| Psi | make sure they actually get there | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:01.439030+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037153.321663] usb 2-1.5.3: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0105 | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:01.439046+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037153.321676] usb 2-1.5.3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=5 | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:01.439048+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037153.321677] usb 2-1.5.3: Product: Nokia N900 (Update mode) | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:01.439049+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037153.321679] usb 2-1.5.3: Manufacturer: Nokia | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2014-06-15T14:50:01.439049+02:00 localhost kernel: [2037153.321680] usb 2-1.5.3: SerialNumber: 4D554D323931313733 | 15:52 |
| Psi | Agge: ive started it many times after working on it unpluged for 10+ minutes and it always starts when the battery is connected | 15:53 |
| Agge | Psi: ok | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: you should check if ROM bootloader enumerates on USB | 15:54 |
| Psi | how do i check that | 15:54 |
| Psi | is it a different hold key or something | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | connect powered-down device to linux machine, then provide power via USB | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ROM boot will not check for any keys pressed | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ROM BL only checks USB and enums, every single time the CPU boots | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is how clodflash works | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~coldflash | 15:57 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, coldflash is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:34:01 (jacekowski's instructions), or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing | 15:57 |
| Psi | same thing in logs, and phone just keeps rebooting | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's NOT (I *repeat: NOT) recommended to do cold flashing ever, unless you have very strong ndications that NOLO is defective | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your logs are incomplete | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they only show end of a failing enum | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to see what's going on you need first few lines, not last | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't matter if device reboots or whatever | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as CPU gets powered up, it executes ROM BL and (one of) first things ROM BL does is ENUM on USB, to check if a flasher asks for coldflash | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ROM BL is the initial bootloader, stored to ROM in CPU and immutable | 16:01 |
| Psi | this is all i get in kern.log http://pastebin.com/WSxx2zDX | 16:01 |
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| Psi | maybe i need to enable better loging | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ROM BL does USB ENUM before it initializes any LCD or anything else | 16:02 |
| Psi | im familar with the message MSwindows is giving when i plug it into that, its the message you get when there is serious USB communication problems | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if that's the very first line that shows up after you attach your powered-down N900, then you got a hw problem (or driver problem on PC side, but that's pretty unlikely) | 16:03 |
| Psi | yeah | 16:03 |
| Psi | i think there must be a broken data line to the driver chip. Or the chip is fried | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly it shows that *some* of USB data still works, or otherwise the PC wouldn't even notice the USB device attached | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | broken data line is possible but unlikely, particularly when you attached cable the way you did | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a short of one data line to something else is highly likely | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fried PHY is also possible but only likely when some terribly broken charger got attached | 16:06 |
| Psi | well it can be VCC or GND as i have checked ohms with DMM and its in the meg range between D- and D+ to GND or VCC | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1707 PHY supposed to survive 5V on data line, and for sure supposed to survive data line grounded | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please check voltage on open-end D- D+ | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vs GND | 16:07 |
| Psi | open-end ? | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't recall the exact values from top of my head, but for sure not 0V | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not connected to PC | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only device powered up | 16:08 |
| honestly | USB uses differential signaling | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | naming of D- D+ suggests that already | 16:08 |
| honestly | so idle connection should have both lines pulled up somewhat | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 16:09 |
| honestly | at 2V or something like that | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 16:09 |
| honestly | (: | 16:09 |
| Psi | both D- and D+ goto about 0.3V on DMM for about 0.5second right at power on when it vibrates | 16:10 |
| Psi | then goto zero volts | 16:10 |
| Psi | however DMM maybe lying, should really use scope | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I think *idle* USB device PHY has both pulled up weak (range of 100k), while active device (Vbus +5V) PHY is supposed to pull up one by 1.5k and pull down other by 15k or somesuch, depending on low speed or full speed it's either D+ or D- that's pulled up. I can't recall details from top of my head | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: that sounds conclusive | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, except for the 0.3V which probably are somewhat higher, but DMM is too slow | 16:13 |
| Psi | yeah, scope says its actually 0.6v | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Psi: I take it you have a lab PSU attached to battery? | 16:13 |
| Psi | yep | 16:13 |
| Psi | at 4.0V | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a battery voltage of <3.0V should cause CPU not booting and instead bq24150 charger chip asking 1707 PHY about D+/- short and depending on that it lits up the steady yellow indicator LED | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | make Vbatt 2.3V please | 16:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | then apply 5V Vusb | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do this one time with open D+/- and one time with D+/- short | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I have no discharged battery here, so can't reproduce the procedure. So you have to trust in my poor and clouded memory, or check the schematics and bq24150 datasheet yourself | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* it's even sufficient to connect Vbatt+ and Vbatt-GND with a e.g. 100R, and not apply any voltage at all | 16:19 |
| Psi | yep, led comes on with D- and D+ as they are. If i short them and repeat i get no led | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's kinda weird | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | should be exactly other way round | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LED is amber? | 16:20 |
| Psi | yellow | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or is it red, or green, or flashing? | 16:20 |
| Psi | not red or green | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | steady yellow, yep that's correct | 16:21 |
| Psi | not flashing, just solid | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | weird | 16:21 |
| Psi | it wouldnt be able to draw the full 1A charge from usb PC 5v anyway | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np, that's not what it tries to do | 16:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it however would try to charge up battery from charger with as much as it can pull from USB | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can you see on lab PSU how much it pulls | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or see voltage on battery pins going up, or sth? | 16:23 |
| Psi | yep, i can see that, it pulls the 2.3v up to 3.25V | 16:23 |
| Psi | can see it on lab psu meter | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | It might be that it charges "battery" with 100mA when D+/- ope circuit, and tries with 500ma on D+/- short, thus causing Vbus supply cutting out and no yellow LED | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3.25 is correct for charging, yes | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's emergency charging end voltage | 16:24 |
| Psi | ah, makes sense | 16:25 |
| Psi | do you know if the usb driver IC is BGA or not | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when end voltage reached, bq24150 quits emergency charging and allows CPU to boot up | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's BGA, yes | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB#USB_Phy | 16:27 |
| Psi | is there a manual for the n900 which matches the part numbers in the schmatic diagram to physical locations on the pcb? | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the schematics itself has that, at end (page 15 orso) | 16:28 |
| Psi | really, i must have missed it | 16:29 |
| * Psi looks | 16:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, page 16 | 16:29 |
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| Psi | yeah, im looking at it now | 16:30 |
| Psi | for some reason i thought that was missing | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic#Page_16_Component_Finder_.28Top.29 | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway your tests suggest that 1707a PHY can detect a D+/- short correctly. That tells some story about what must be OK and working on your device | 16:31 |
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| Psi | yeah | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly it does suggest that none of D+ D- traces to phy is broken | 16:32 |
| Psi | now that i know how to find components on the board and trace the circuit i will have another play with the meter looking for faults | 16:33 |
| Psi | oh, there is a missing cap on the FM tx that i found loose in the phone | 16:33 |
| Psi | C6184 | 16:33 |
| Psi | its part of the sleep clock input to the FM tx chip | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ouch | 16:34 |
| Psi | the cap was still there, inside the metal can | 16:34 |
| Psi | just loose | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OUCH! | 16:34 |
| Psi | yeah, im beginning to wonder if one of the two broken components inside the phone may have touched something and shorted it out | 16:35 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders how to find out which cap got loose, without opening can and while doing that, at least remove the loose cap | 16:35 | |
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| Psi | yeah, i have removed both the broken ESD chip and the borken cap | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, a loose component is always a high risk to short other stuff randomly | 16:36 |
| Psi | cap looks ok, its still intact but esd chip i only found one half of it | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf? how can such a tiny chip break into parts | 16:37 |
| Psi | have a look where that chip is, its right at the point of the stylis | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, not really | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some millimeter space between the two | 16:37 |
| Psi | i dunno, just seems an odd coincidence | 16:38 |
| Psi | i do push the stylis in with some force | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, when you bend the whole device a 10mm... ;-P | 16:38 |
| Psi | heh | 16:38 |
| Psi | ok, i need to sleep, its 1:40 here and i have to get up for work at 6 | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or insert something that's not exactly a correctly shaped stylus | 16:39 |
| Psi | thanks a lot for your help | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw, good luck! | 16:39 |
| Psi | na, ive never put anything into the stylus hole thats not a stylus | 16:39 |
| Psi | maybe the chip came loose and got hit by the vibrator | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possible | 16:40 |
| Psi | that might crack it | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 16:40 |
| Psi | ok, see ya. Thanks | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya | 16:40 |
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| emma | hello | 21:54 |
| emma | May I ask what is the latest good news about Maemo? | 21:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe the upcomming coding competition? | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe the rumor that Neo900 UG ponders to donate (an option for) a device or alternatively a sustantial money price for a yet to get specified port of fremantle? | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | suBstantial* | 23:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and prize of course | 23:01 |
| honestly | I still can't parse that properly | 23:03 |
| honestly | who is donating what for what? | 23:03 |
| honestly | do you mean offering a bounty? | 23:03 |
| emma | why is there a bounty? | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errr, a competition is about prizes, winners and all that, no? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, is that so obscure? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93334 | 23:10 |
| honestly | oh, I see. | 23:10 |
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