IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2014-06-08

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DocScrutinizer05FIQ: what's prgmr ?03:35
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FIQDocScrutinizer05, VPS04:58
FIQnvm the excessfloods, they aren't their fault but my own04:59
FIQnever bothered to fix it04:59
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ApicA wonderful Pentecost (UGT) to You all!09:50
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DocScrutinizer05  heatwave14:11
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Gatta_Negrahai al14:13
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DocScrutinizer05~waether eddn14:32
DocScrutinizer05~weather eddn14:32
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2014.06.08 1120 UTC; Dew Point: 51 F (11 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.12 in. Hg (1020 hPa); Relative Humidity: 29%; Temperature: 87 F (31 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: Variable at 7 MPH (6 KT)14:32
DocScrutinizer05hi Gatta_Negra14:33
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Gatta_NegraDocScrutinizer05, Hi!14:36
Gatta_NegraI am happy to read the cool news about the N900 project!14:36
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DocScrutinizer05Gatta_Negra: which news in particular? Seems there's little real news during at least last week ;-)14:49
DocScrutinizer05ok, since Thursday evening Neo900 UG can actually access own bank account via online banking (finally!), that's for sure great. But not really big news14:50
DocScrutinizer05given the fact the bank account been opened 2014-03(!!)-18, it's actually rather a sad and annoying story about Deutsche Bank14:52
Gatta_NegraI had the chance to glance the info mail yesterday and  I got really excited14:52
Defiantexcited? I havn't found anything excited in it14:54
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DocScrutinizer05oh well, Sebastian (dos1) for sure did some exciting tests/verifications and patches with/for our PHS8 module, regarding compatibility with FSO, GPS/GLONASS, and connectivity14:57
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DocScrutinizer05and definitely Werner Almesberger is an invaluable gain for the project15:08
DocScrutinizer05I'm hoping for Paul Fertser to take care about maintaining a 3.x kernel (repo) at (or wherever) to merge and coordinate the work done by HNS, freemangordon, SBE, and whoever contributes to upstream15:10
DocScrutinizer05~seen fatphil15:11
infobotfatphil <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 205d 16h 43m 51s ago, saying: 'fark! yeah, the broken clip had migrated a long way from where it should be. No exploding springs from the non-broken one '.15:11
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DocScrutinizer05Defiant: I hope the next prototype will bring more stuff you'll find exciting. E.G. the "multitouch" dualtouch-gesture-recognition in touchscreen. And display half at large brought up to operation (minus frontcam). All sensors. Kbd (incl [RGB?] backlight). Maybe some additional jacks tested to come on spacerframe...15:42
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DefiantDocScrutinizer05: sorry, didn't mean that, meant the money thing15:47
DocScrutinizer05the money thing is an unavoidable annoyinace basically. Sorry we had it wrong from beginning and now need to sort it, but we're in better shape than we were some months ago now - just transfer needs to finish successfully15:50
DocScrutinizer05for now ~60 transfers with a total of ~11k got accomplished, hoping for more to happen till end of month15:51
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sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: thanks for posting the full paste. I was going to attach it in a textfile to the post but I got called out.16:04
DocScrutinizer05yw, a negligence16:04
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DocScrutinizer05just frowned about pastebin which exires eventually, rendering another useful post in a forum moot16:05
DocScrutinizer05much like all the references to *external* pictures that sooner or later vanish leaving the post with broken embedded pictures16:06
DocScrutinizer05I consider it a bug in vBulletin16:06
DocScrutinizer05embedding external sources is a NoGo basically, for various reasons16:07
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: ^^^16:07
sixwheeledbeastI prolly should have pasted straight into the forum, but I was under pressure to get to a job.16:08
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DocScrutinizer05np, nevermind16:08
DocScrutinizer05you're free to edit your post, then I can delete mine16:09
DocScrutinizer05just drop me a note when you do16:09
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sixwheeledbeastOk I'll do that now then to save the huge post, if that's ok16:09
DocScrutinizer05sure it is OK16:10
DocScrutinizer05don't worry about huge posts! :-)16:10
DocScrutinizer05better a huge post with actually useful info, than 30 posts with 95% quotes of noise, each16:11
DocScrutinizer05tbh I pretty much despise those fullquote posts - though sometimes even I do16:12
DocScrutinizer05luckily - after a rant from my side - vBulletin/tmo recently learned to not embed embedded photos in fullquotes anymore - at least that16:13
DocScrutinizer05post#1 "look what I did: <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo>"    - post#2 " [quote]look what I did: <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo>[/quote] thanks!"16:15
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: please share a link, I closed the thread16:16
DocScrutinizer05cleaned :-)16:17
M4rtinK2OK then, new modRana is out! :)16:37
M4rtinK2should fix the tile loading issue that showed up after the previous update16:37
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK2: \o/16:40
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK2: and a huge thanks for doing all this persevering maintenance which does a good job for keeping maemo5 attractive and alive16:42
DocScrutinizer05alas a lot of package maintainers abandoned ship for Harmattan and now even sailfish16:43
M4rtinK2well, I just don't like dropping support for platforms left and right :)16:44
M4rtinK2actually I still kinda support the Neo FreeRunner :)16:45
DocScrutinizer05which isn't too devastating for more or less static stuff like e.g. irc clients, since IRC protocol is quite mature and fixed. Or even things like games or strictly local apps. But stuff that works with internet at large often sees changes in the public stuff (maps changing, Fahrplan website structure changing) which render the maemo5 app broken.16:46
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK2: (Neo Freerunner) awesome! and in the end it benefits your project, since people see it's reliable and LTS16:47
DocScrutinizer05I honestly cheerfully whould drop crappy KDE4 at large - for example, if only KDE3 still received at least maintenance support16:48
M4rtinK2well, there is already KDE5, you can drop 4 now :)16:49
RST38hDon't worry, KDE5 is even crappier16:49
DocScrutinizer05saying, a package's quality is not only determined by the obvious immediate properties but also by the trust you put into it to keep up support so your decision for a package isn't sth you regret a 6 months later16:50
M4rtinK2DocScrutinizer05: well, there is still one friend using modRana on the Neo, don't know about anyone else but there could be some users somewhere16:50
RST38hSo you can now complain of how KDE4 is something you would use if not for the lack of support16:50
M4rtinK2still, it is not that maintenance intensive - it even has a newer Python version that Maemo 5 :)16:50
M4rtinK2still, I've actually semi-dropped Harmattan16:51
DocScrutinizer05I *think* there is python3 available for maemo5, just not in core metapackage16:51
M4rtinK2as it is the only platform that is currently covered only by the Qt4 GUI16:51
M4rtinK2well, even 2.7 is there IIRC16:52
M4rtinK2but that would add some considerable dependencies16:52
M4rtinK2so I'm still using 2.5 as a baseline16:52
M4rtinK2turns out one can write code that runs on 2.5 and 3.4 at the same time16:53
M4rtinK2and the amount of hacks isn't even that crazy :)16:53
DocScrutinizer05as long as the additional maintenance effort is manageable, it's for sure a good thing to keep it on 2.516:53
DocScrutinizer05((turns out one can write code that runs on 2.5 and 3.4 at the same time)) this qualifies you as a truly mature and experienced developer :-)16:54
DocScrutinizer05twinklephone for example had compile options to build it with or without KDE integration, and even Qt/X11 integration. And the KDE enabled version still would run on non-KDE desktops, just the stuff that depends on e.g. kdepim would be disabled then16:58
xesM4rtinK: some time ago someone asked you about libgarmin support and vectormaps loader, have you some plan about that? Or am i missing something that is already working concerning this?16:59
DocScrutinizer05the X11 version supposed to run on most of *nix versions out there (depending mainly on audio bindings), and the non-X11 version even should run on arbitrary platforms probably as long as they are posix, if only they have a cmd shell and a compatible/supported audio subsystem17:01
M4rtinK2xes: haven't worked on that yet17:02
M4rtinK2xes: haven't really even looked how libgarmin actually works17:02
xesM4rtinK: libgarmin can be compiled without problems inside maemo (and also navit works with it - but navit not a gui)17:03
DocScrutinizer05(twinklephone) the pity is that Qt4 basically killed twinklephone17:03
M4rtinK2xes: I guess it provides support for working with the Garmin map format ?17:04
xesDocScrutinizer05: and pulseaudio has done the remaining part of the killing twinkle17:04
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sixwheeledbeastthere are still a few packages and updates coming through the builder. But yes I agree props to the likes of MartinK and Marxian for having multi-platform support.17:05
xesM4rtinK: yep, it's a configure option17:05
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: thanks! :)17:05
sixwheeledbeastnp, you deserve it.17:05
DocScrutinizer05xes: well, kinda, since PolypAudio forced apps to switch their audio interface, thanks to PukeAudio not providing a *working* compatibility layer for apps using ALSA audio interface17:05
M4rtinK2I really don't like the current bunch of incompatible platforms & mobile applications so I'm trying to do something about it :)17:06
M4rtinK2xes: has it some interface usable from Python ?17:06
DocScrutinizer05twinkle still works great, even under KDE4, but only when you give PA some decent hard kicks to bend it into shape, or completely get rid of that PA crap all together17:06
M4rtinK2xes: I guess it could be plugged in as a geometry provider for the rendering pipeline (well, once there is a pipeline :) )17:07
M4rtinK2xes: I plan to have both quite independent so different data sources and rendering methods can be used, maybe even depending on platform17:08
M4rtinK2xes: for example Cairo vs using the QtQuick 2.0 Canvas directly17:08
DocScrutinizer05xes: I admit the maintainers/devels of librtpcpp etc also did a `great´ job by shipping ABI-incompatible libs under same so-name17:08
DocScrutinizer05a `great´ job to kill twinkle17:09
M4rtinK2xes: or the Mapnik Maemo 5 port marmistrz did17:09
M4rtinK2xes: but still a lot of work ahead so any help would be appreciated :)17:10
xesM4rtinK: i'm searching for a libgarmin's python interface..17:11
xesDocScrutinizer05: i was used to use twinkle 10 hours a day for at least 4 years... not i can't anymore since it's completely intable with pulseaudio and latest ditro17:12
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DocScrutinizer05did you ponder getting rid of PA?17:12
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DocScrutinizer05or use a dedicated audiocard for twinkle that's not known and tainted by PA?17:13
DocScrutinizer05xes: btw awesome to hear you used twinkle. maybe eventually you are in the mood to check the german translation ;-)17:14
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DocScrutinizer05xes: actually it seems nobody but you and a few callcenters really understood the power of twinklephone. It is more powerful than any other SIP softphone I know of, thanks to the scripting and rich config options17:16
xesDocScrutinizer05: it was working great with a bluetooth earpiece... now setup it again removing PA while every app is using it, i can't expect a good result17:17
DocScrutinizer05yeah, BT is a problem since it doesn't come with PA-free drivers for audio17:18
M4rtinK2...and then there is the Bluez 4/5 trainwreck :)17:19
DocScrutinizer05however maybe you could use bluez to make a BT dongle appear like a normal ALSA audiocard in /dev/audio/* and then just use that for twinklephone17:19
DocScrutinizer05PA is an annoyance already, Bluez however turns it into a killer PITA17:21
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DocScrutinizer05alas twinkle's audio interface depends on functions like buffer clear which PA doesn't offer17:22
xesDocScrutinizer05: i have tried also sflphone.. :(   complete no-go. It continuosly hangs channels inside asterisk....17:22
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xesM4rtinK: maybe this could be a starting point:
DocScrutinizer05xes: Michel deBoer - author of twinklephone - also contributed to several RFCs for SIP ;-)18:01
DocScrutinizer05 for example. Michel worked at Lucent (and iirc does again now)18:04
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xesDocScrutinizer05:  was twinkle abandoned only due qt4?18:10
DocScrutinizer05xes: you should expect the tool he wrote to test SIP servers would be standards compliant18:10
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DocScrutinizer05particularly because twinkle used qt3 in a way that created incompatibilities with qt4 regarding thread-safe iirc18:12
DocScrutinizer05qt4 has a different concept of concurrent threats18:12
DocScrutinizer05which would cause all sorts of deadlock situations when simply brinlessly porting twinkle-qt3 to qt418:13
DocScrutinizer05thus it would need a *complete* redesign of twinkle's GUI18:13
DocScrutinizer05not the layout but the "API"18:14
DocScrutinizer05the "binding"18:14
DocScrutinizer05that's how I seem to recall what Michel told me18:14
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xesDocScrutinizer05: ok, thanks18:15
DocScrutinizer05and since Michel always been rather annoyed by alll aspects of having to create a UI for his tool, it been a clear decision to not do the qt4 move18:16
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DocScrutinizer05(in the and 50 .. 75% of UI design been based on my suggestions)18:16
DocScrutinizer05(as well as 90% of scripting hooks, and 50% of smdline interface)18:17
xesit's sad that it doesn't have a least a command line ui (afaik)18:18
DocScrutinizer05*in the End*18:18
Maxdamantussmd lines18:21
xesDocScrutinizer05:  ops, i missed it! So why leave the entire project?18:22
DocScrutinizer05Michel lost interest18:22
DocScrutinizer05prolly got pissed by qt18:22
xesprobably if they had continued supporting pulseaudio the application would still be the best and maybe someone else would have contributed giving it a new gui18:24
DocScrutinizer05pukeaudio is missing functions twinkle needs to do proper audio output, aiui18:25
DocScrutinizer05and Nichel been completely detached from audio interface - even got it "donated" by another developer18:26
merlin1991damn bootlooping n900, and no idea why18:27
merlin1991my best guess is it's a battery problem, because I don't even get to the bootmenu menu, only up till u-boot18:27
FIQtime for the yearly update check18:28
DocScrutinizer05xes: twinkle even builds a qt-free cmdline-only binary with every make, iirc18:29
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: so what about uBoot menu?18:30
DocScrutinizer05is that stable?18:30
DocScrutinizer05is there such a thing like uBoot menu at all? (I dunno, honestly)18:30
merlin1991well it always gets that far thank to flabat recovery ...18:31
merlin1991yes with any semi recent (years by now?) old u-boot you get a menu when the keyboard is up while booting18:31
DocScrutinizer05flatbat recovery stops when device boots 8or rather other way round)18:31
DocScrutinizer05and uBoot afaik doesn't do any charging18:32
merlin1991then u-boot menu kicks in, and then it dies again :D18:32
DocScrutinizer05that's bat then18:32
DocScrutinizer05unless uBoot menu timeout and autoboot kicks in18:32
DocScrutinizer05or watchdog18:33
DocScrutinizer05(30s ?)18:33
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FIQI find it a bit silly that bootmenu has a timeout of 30s while the device will be killed by watchdog when 7s left18:33
FIQbefore it selects default that is18:34
FIQor whatever it does after 30s18:34
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: lemme dare a far fetched guess: you sored away the N900 incl battery depeleted, for 6 months. Now cell is dead, killed by storage at depleted charge state18:35
infobotsomebody said batteryfaq was
merlin1991it actually booted in my pr1.3.1 device :) (swapped the batteries)18:36
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FIQok so there's 2 updates in HAM18:36
FIQone for ssu package18:37
FIQand one for ssu enabler18:37
FIQdo I have to do these in any particular order?18:37
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DocScrutinizer05update for cssu-enabler??? :-o18:37
merlin1991okay this weird18:37
merlin1991I did put the now semi charged battery back into the original phone18:37
merlin1991charger in, act dead booting fails at u-boot "starting kernel"18:38
DocScrutinizer05oh god, it booted18:38
FIQ[17:37:30] <DocScrutinizer05> update for cssu-enabler??? :-o18:38
merlin1991charger out, battery out, batter in, turn it on by hand18:38
merlin1991just boots18:38
FIQanything weird with this?18:38
merlin1991FIQ: depends, what version is your cssu-enabler?18:39
FIQCommunity SSU enabler 0.7-4+thumb1 20kB18:39
DocScrutinizer05cssu-enabler actually should get uninstalled after cssu enabled18:39
FIQhow do I check?18:39
FIQlet's see18:39
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merlin1991dpkg -l community-ssu-enabler18:39
FIQdpkg -l I guess18:39
DocScrutinizer05I don't see what for you'd need the enabler on a CSSU system18:39
FIQis installed18:40
FIQDocScrutinizer05: no idea, I just followed the installation process18:40
FIQsomehow it stayed18:40
merlin1991FIQ: you got thumb on your system?18:40
merlin1991there you are18:40
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DocScrutinizer05I strongly deprecate updating the enabler18:40
merlin1991freemangordon made a new version, because installing thumb on a non errata fixed kernel blows up in your face18:40
FIQso what should I do? uninstall the enabler?18:41
DocScrutinizer05i'm no expert of enabler, but it sounds *very* fishy18:41
DocScrutinizer05it would reset your catalogs I guess18:41
merlin1991don't uninstall the enabler, but no need to update it either18:41
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merlin1991it's just for the brave people that install thumb on stock kernel nowadays (doesn't work anymore since the libc thumb build)18:42
FIQso what's the difference between Tmaemo9.1+thumb0 and thumb1?18:42
DocScrutinizer05one version diff ;-)18:43
merlin1991are there any known incompatabilities with backupmenu and act-dead charging?18:43
ApicTmaemo9.1+ and the Digit18:43
FIQApic: I skipped that part because it stayed the same18:43
ApicGood Algorithm.18:43
FIQboth are T9.1 :P18:43
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: definitely not18:43
ApicWill try to remember.18:43
bencohlooks like I have it (enabler) as well18:43
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: well, you shouldn't expect act-dead when you plug in a phone with open slide18:44
DocScrutinizer05I *think* I uninstalled enabler as soon as I used it and CSSU got enabled - if only to get rid of the icon18:45
merlin1991the icon is removed once you run it ...18:46
FIQI don't have the icon18:46
DocScrutinizer05it should deinstall itself rather18:46
FIQI wonder if it would be possible to make a de-cssu package18:46
DocScrutinizer05no it isn't18:47
DocScrutinizer05pali once tried that, but it been a fail more or less18:47
DocScrutinizer05you can't roll back from CSSU to stock, except with flashing or restoring a backup18:47
FIQwhy not? new configurations that mess up in 1.3.1?18:48
DocScrutinizer05lots of stuff18:48
FIQshouldn't it be possible18:48
DocScrutinizer05all sorts of patches done to core system, the thing CSSU got invented for18:49
FIQto see exact what packages are updated, what changes are made18:49
DocScrutinizer05so you need to resore core system, aka "reflash"18:49
FIQbetween an update from 1.3 to CSSU18:49
FIQand "reverse" them all?18:49
DocScrutinizer05why would anybody want to do that?18:49
FIQthe only thing I can see it useful for18:49
FIQis if one wants to switch cssu branch18:50
bencohcssu->testing for instance18:50
DocScrutinizer05you can switch stable->testing any time you want18:50
DocScrutinizer05but not the reverse18:50
FIQbut not the other direction ;)18:50
bencohoh ? I always thought this one would get messy as well18:51
DocScrutinizer05nope, no problem in that one18:51
DocScrutinizer05just "install" testing over your stable. Right, merlin1991?18:51
merlin1991just enable the testing catalogue and install the metapackage update18:52
DocScrutinizer05that's the hacker smart way18:52
DocScrutinizer05but shouldn't cssu-testing *install* just fine, exactly like told on cssu howto page, over cssu-stable as well?18:53
bencohI might give it a try some day ... but not before I get my hands on sb/maemo-sdk18:53
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: shoukd we update to mention cssu-stable as a valid basis for installation of cssu-testing (along with PR1.3 and PR.1.3.1)?18:57
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infobothmm... cssu-thumb is <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or, or
freemangordoncheck the changelog19:22
FIQbtw after upgrade, device never rebooted19:22
FIQbut left me with a dead WM19:22
freemangordonhappens sometimes19:22
freemangordonbut should be ok after manually power down19:23
FIQand I checked changelog @ package manager :P19:23
freemangordongood for you :)19:23
FIQyeah everything seems ok19:23
FIQnd yay for proper HAM19:23
freemangordonactually glibc in that last update brings problems, but I still can't find a way to rollback it to non-thumb version19:24
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infobotfreemangordon meant: actually glibc in that last update brings problems, but I still can't find a time to rollback it to non-thumb version19:24
FIQwhat is the issues?19:24
DocScrutinizer05xes: (when you read chanlog maybe)  just works, for me19:25
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freemangordonFIQ: read on the very same thread19:25
* freemangordon is afk19:25
DocScrutinizer05yeah proper ham! \o/19:27
infobotfrom memory, speedyham is, or in cssu-thumb19:27
DocScrutinizer05*ouch* on thombified libc619:32
FIQah so libc6 is busted19:33
DocScrutinizer05yeah, and it's probably a *very* bad idea to even touch libc6 on any system unless you absolutely have to, to make system work19:33
DocScrutinizer05to make matters worse, I don't see any huge benefit in reduction of memory footprint from messing around with libc6, but a possible performance penalty (and obviously also possible instabilities) in *all* programs19:35
DocScrutinizer05after all libc6 is a shared library that only uses memory once, for all processes that use libc6 (== *all*)19:36
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DocScrutinizer05and thumb is said to be slower than arm19:37
DocScrutinizer05so even when you *theoretically* could squeeze dozens of MB out of thumbifying libc6, it's still not worth it19:38
FIQthumb *is* slower than arm, but since N900's bottleneck is the lack of RAM, thumb compiled stuff with less memory footprint is a good idea19:39
FIQlibc6 though...19:39
DocScrutinizer05and most likely you cannot squeeze out that amount of RAM from it, anyway19:39
bencohI guess it depends on how slower it really compares19:39
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: libc6 only gets loaded *once*, then the argument about bottleneck and bandwith to storage is absolutely moot19:40
FIQyeah, hence "[18:39:08] <FIQ> libc6 though..."19:41
DocScrutinizer05if I had to pick anything out of the average unix system I would recommend to throw huge amounts of RAM at to speed up the system by a marginal few percent, then that would be libc6 - unless I opted against that since libc6 is sacrosankt and a don't-touch item19:42
DocScrutinizer05for touching it you usually get shot with old windows95 CDs19:43
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NokiabotHow dangerous is it when one charges battery by connecting wires to it inside phone ? Or using testpads ?20:16
DocScrutinizer05very dangerous20:16
DocScrutinizer05strictly deprecated20:16
NokiabotWhy ? How can i do it sanely ?20:17
DocScrutinizer05you need a special permission to do this. Called EE professional education20:18
NokiabotI know :D20:18
NokiabotBut i need a poor man version .20:19
DocScrutinizer05here's your poor man version20:19
FIQwhy do you want to do this20:19
NokiabotDont link me those they have already scared the hell out of me20:19
DocScrutinizer05exactly what you asked for20:19
FIQyou can buy external chargers20:20
FIQif you're lucky (like me) you get a good one which does the proper security checks and proper charging20:20
FIQif you're unlucky...20:20
FIQ(I made sure to verify that the one I got was sane)20:20
NokiabotI repaired a spare n900 but it got no usb as it needed to be ripped of along with some tiny black beads.20:21
DocScrutinizer05when you try to do such 2-wire stupid charging inside N900, you get even further risk of damaging the N900 electronics20:21
FIQooh broken usbs are always fun20:21
sixwheeledbeastget a desktop charger to fit bl5j20:22
FIQthat's why I got a charger :P20:22
dos1Nokiabot: I've got some old BL-5J based Nokia with broken screen for something like $5 on local equivalent of eBay20:22
NokiabotWhat is a dextop charger ?20:22
dos1and it works for me as a charger20:22
FIQafaik nokia doesn't make their own20:22
NokiabotI got a whole store of chargers20:22
FIQso you have to rely on... stuff20:23
NokiabotWhat i want is the battery to be inside20:23
sixwheeledbeastlike this there are also USB and car versions20:23
dos1then fix USB20:23
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DocScrutinizer05FIQ: Nokia actually builds a charger20:24
FIQoh they do?20:24
Nokiabot@Dos check my thread i posted couple of days ago what do you think ??20:24
FIQdidn't find when I checked 2y ago20:24
DocScrutinizer05yes, and it craps out on 1000mAh20:24
FIQmaybe I was just blind20:24
FIQlet's try and find whatever I got20:25
Nokiabot@doc i was thinking if i use a good charger with battery protection outside ?20:26
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FIQDocScrutinizer05: microB doesn't like that site20:27
DocScrutinizer05surprise surprise X-P20:27
DocScrutinizer05Nokiabot: *might* work, low risk of exploding battery but still high risk of killing N900, and probably charging won't work anyway this way20:28
NokiabotSo actually i need to relay on external charger finally ?? I wanted that piece 24x7 :(20:28
DocScrutinizer05Nokiabot: please omit "@" and use <tab> (or whatever your client has) to nick-complete. I have no highlight on "doc"20:29
NokiabotIt got nothing check jmirc20:30
DocScrutinizer05Nokiabot: it *is* possible to maintain battery in device in a usb-broken N900, but it's not exactly simple and needs EE skills to do it right20:30
FIQfrom what I saw coolIRC makes jmirc obsolete20:31
FIQbut it's still a terrible client... not that there is any good j2me irc clients20:32
DocScrutinizer05>>mIRC provides basic tab-completion functionality that will be familiar to anyone who's used a modern command-line interface. Type the first letter or so of a nickname and press the Tab key. mIRC will then complete the rest of the nickname for you, as shown in . If more than one nick starts with the part that you typed, mIRC will allow you to cycle through the available options by repeatedly pressing the Tab key.<<20:32
DocScrutinizer05nfc about jmirc20:32
NokiabotI already said i know i requires a hell lota knowledge what i was asking is as i got a bit of experience maybe i could do with some instructions20:32
FIQjmirc is a j2me irc client20:32
FIQthat isn't even remotely close to mIRC20:33
FIQbesides name20:33
FIQ(which is probably intentional)20:33
DocScrutinizer05Nokiabot: yes, for sure possible20:33
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DocScrutinizer05Nokiabot: "docS: would be welcome as highlight20:33
DocScrutinizer05Nokiabot: "docS:" would be welcome as highlight20:33
FIQdoc brown20:33
DocScrutinizer05no highlight on doc20:34
DocScrutinizer05oops sorry! actually "docscr.*" is a highlight regex20:35
DocScrutinizer05so "docscr:" would work20:35
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NokiabotGonna get a raspberry pi after exams20:36
DocScrutinizer05Nokiabot: you need an external power source that's hard limited to 4.200V *exactly*, and has a sort of current limiter which could be as simple as a 1Ohm 1Watt resistor20:37
DocScrutinizer05rather 1.5Ohm20:38
DocScrutinizer05with a better circuit you could adjust current limit to 950mA20:38
NokiabotAn rj45 cable actuall powers it normaly like a battery so i was wondering if i can easily use a charger20:38
DocScrutinizer05independant of voltage of battery. This would help speed up the charging20:38
NokiabotAvove idea is doable20:39
NokiabotWhat independent to voltage of battery means ?20:40
DocScrutinizer05vakkov: we know it already, but thanks :-)20:41
vakkovof course you know about it ... the question is: is there going to be any benefit of that20:41
NokiabotDocscr :what independent to voltage of battery means ?20:42
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DocScrutinizer05Nokiabot: it means that when your battery is at 4.07Volt, then the simple 1Ohm series resistor current limiter would reduce charging current to 1(Ohm)/(4.200 - 4.070)(Volt)20:42
DocScrutinizer05err sorry, *20:43
NokiabotLimiting the current will need help20:43
DocScrutinizer05(4.200 - 4.070)(Volt) / 1(Ohm)20:43
DocScrutinizer05so charging battery at 130mA inst4ead of a possible 950mA20:44
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NokiabotI will be slow na ?20:45
DocScrutinizer05a proper charger chip handles all that for you, doing a ConstantCurrent-ConstantVoltage (CCCV) charging, and also stopping charging eventually when battery is full, something that's very important as well20:45
NokiabotOh man what kind of weird ideas i had thought of !!20:46
DocScrutinizer05a *decent* lab PSU has adjusting dials to set it to 4200mV at a current limit of 950mA20:46
DocScrutinizer05so you could use such lab PSU as well20:46
NokiabotChip ?? Err thas hard where can i find one20:46
DocScrutinizer05sorry, (getting and *using* the chip) that's EE knowledge I can't transfer to you in IRC on answering a few questions you ask20:48
NokiabotHumm i will talk later i need to do a bit of research to talk further.20:48
DocScrutinizer05or get a lab PSU as I suggested, and make sure you don't touch the dials after you adjusted it to 4200mV 950mA :
NokiabotI can get acess to lap psu :)20:50
DocScrutinizer05but then you still want to make sure you don't run that stuff 24/7 like that, you should stop charging after a few hours, and resume it only much later20:50
bencohgetting a lab PSU definitely is a good idea anyway if you want to start fiddling with that kind of stuff :)20:50
NokiabotOk ok i will get oversaturated now20:51
NokiabotGonna be great time after exams20:52
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK2: I have just noticed that even if you set units to imperial everything menu wise is still in m/ km.20:54
NokiabotCm would be great :p20:55
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* DocScrutinizer05 wonders whether to get a proper lab PSU, with USB/ethernet remote control21:15
jpinxyea - and a TV controller :)21:17
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M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: you mean like in options or in the batch download menu ?23:06
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: well, yeah, that could be improved :)23:06
sixwheeledbeastboth IIRC23:06
M4rtinK2still the question is which is the correct solution23:06
M4rtinK2just converting the values to the corresponding unit an showing them23:07
M4rtinK2or having a different set of values23:07
M4rtinK2that don't look ugly23:07
M4rtinK2because 5 km -> 3.125 miles23:08
M4rtinK2well, I could round it to 3.1, but still23:08
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK2: currently 44k/66k tiles downloading23:08
M4rtinK2that isn't that much :)23:08
sixwheeledbeastM4rtin: well are tiles only available in km?23:09
bencohtiles of ?23:11
sixwheeledbeastthe options in question are "Units: km or miles" and "Small imperial units: yrds and ft"23:12
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sixwheeledbeastbencoh: modRana map tile23:12
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sixwheeledbeastif they are only available in km then it makes sense to leave them in km but provide a approx. miles value for us imperial folk23:13
sixwheeledbeastthis is the downloads section I am talking about here23:14
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: well, that just sets the download radius23:14
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: tiles don't care about units23:15
sixwheeledbeastare the tiles not in x by x km squares?23:15
M4rtinK2all have the same dimension (256x256) and and an unique z x y coordinate23:16
M4rtinK2nope :)23:16
M4rtinK2the use the spherical mercator projection23:16
bencohand even if they were you'd only need to download enough tiles to cover the area23:16
bencoh(no need to have an exact match)23:16
M4rtinK2so they are actually geting "smaller" towards the poles :)23:17
M4rtinK2just check the scale indicator in the lower left23:18
M4rtinK2if you move the map to north from the equator (or south) it has still the same length but shows a lower number :)23:19
M4rtinK2so depending on which area you are downloading you should probably get more or less tiles :)23:20
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M4rtinK2but the radius itself is...lets say pretty approximate :)23:20
M4rtinK2and it is not a circle actually but a square :)23:21
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: ok, well, an example. I know how far 70 miles is on a map but in kliks I am useless. I would have to calculate from "~62miles in 100kliks", some may not know this.23:23
sixwheeledbeastsmaller towards the poles, makes sense :)23:24
M4rtinK2IIRC the geometry gets pretty messy around the poles :)23:25
bencohpretty much yeah23:25
M4rtinK2same thing probably around the data line23:25
M4rtinK2I'm pretty sure modRana does not properly handle routing over the international data line23:25
M4rtinK2oh, it is "date line"23:26
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M4rtinK2still, a valid point about the units in menu23:26
M4rtinK2I'll add it to my issue list :)23:26
M4rtinK2hmm, now looking on the code that takes the radius as input23:31
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M4rtinK2it seems to work entirely with tile coordinates23:31
M4rtinK2and seems to depend on the zoom level that is in the middle of the selected range23:32
M4rtinK2(this code comes from Rana and is from ~2008)23:32
M4rtinK2so I would say the radius size is very VERY approximate :D23:33
M4rtinK2on the other hand haven't got any complains on the radius size in the 4 years I've been working on modRana :)23:34
M4rtinK2so if anyone want s to track the proper unit support in menu items, the issue is here:
sixwheeledbeastcool, thanks M4rtinK. So professional :P23:45
M4rtinK2if I were really professional I would have my own GitLab instance & continuous integration running for modRana :P23:45
sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: oh, another question. Does the QML version come automatically with the GTK version on N900?23:47
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: currently yes23:47
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: but it would not be bad to have a subpackage for it23:48
bencohdo you try keeping both version in sync or is one supposed to die peacefully ?23:49
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: as it drags quite a lot of stuff with it people not using it don't need23:49
sixwheeledbeastI have never tried to use the QML version, I guess it has similar functionality?23:49
M4rtinK2bencoh: well, the Qt4 QML GUI is indeed kinda dead at the moment23:49
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: unfortunately it doesn't :)23:49
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: it is faster and has a few extra features such as support for arbitrary overlay layer count or GPS status monitoring23:50
M4rtinK2sixwheeledbeast: but many important features such as routing, logging, tracklogs & tbt are not exposed23:51
M4rtinK2on the other hand I'm working on the Qt 5 GUI (this is used on the Jolla and on desktop currently)23:51
M4rtinK2and want to get it to feature parity with the GTK one23:52
sixwheeledbeastI see why they are still stuck together for the time being then23:52
M4rtinK2(the Qt 5 GUI also uses QML and is based on the Qt 4 QML GUI)23:52
M4rtinK2BTW, if anyone would be willing to package PyOtherSide23:53
M4rtinK2it would be possible to run the Qt 5 GUI on the N90023:53
M4rtinK2there is already Python 3 & Qt 5 ported over, the two other dependencies needed :)23:54
bencohhow does qt5 behave on n900 btw ?23:55
bencoh(isn't it a tiny bit "too much" for it ?)23:55
M4rtinK2reportedly works fine23:55
M4rtinK2well, it actually should be more optimized than Qt 523:55
bencohthan 4* you mean ?23:56
M4rtinK2that was IIRC actually one of the main goals of Qt 5 :)23:56
M4rtinK2oh, right23:56
M4rtinK2*than Qt 423:56
bencohlast time I tried qt5 on n900 was with nemo .... was quite slow23:56
M4rtinK2this is the relevant thread:
bencohoh, thx23:58
M4rtinK2and this the relevant wiki:
M4rtinK2I would try building PyOtherSide myself but unfortunately my scratchbox setup it busted23:59
M4rtinK2and I haven't yet managed to get it working again23:59

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