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| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: what's prgmr ? | 03:35 |
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| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05, VPS | 04:58 |
| FIQ | nvm the excessfloods, they aren't their fault but my own | 04:59 |
| FIQ | never bothered to fix it | 04:59 |
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| Apic | A wonderful Pentecost (UGT) to You all! | 09:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/08/plasma-desktopvV1787.png heatwave | 14:11 |
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| Gatta_Negra | hai al | 14:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~waether eddn | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~weather eddn | 14:32 |
| infobot | Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2014.06.08 1120 UTC; Dew Point: 51 F (11 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.12 in. Hg (1020 hPa); Relative Humidity: 29%; Temperature: 87 F (31 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: Variable at 7 MPH (6 KT) | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi Gatta_Negra | 14:33 |
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| Gatta_Negra | DocScrutinizer05, Hi! | 14:36 |
| Gatta_Negra | I am happy to read the cool news about the N900 project! | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Gatta_Negra: which news in particular? Seems there's little real news during at least last week ;-) | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, since Thursday evening Neo900 UG can actually access own bank account via online banking (finally!), that's for sure great. But not really big news | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | given the fact the bank account been opened 2014-03(!!)-18, it's actually rather a sad and annoying story about Deutsche Bank | 14:52 |
| Gatta_Negra | I had the chance to glance the info mail yesterday and I got really excited | 14:52 |
| Defiant | excited? I havn't found anything excited in it | 14:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oh well, Sebastian (dos1) for sure did some exciting tests/verifications and patches with/for our PHS8 module, regarding compatibility with FSO, GPS/GLONASS, and connectivity | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and definitely Werner Almesberger is an invaluable gain for the project | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm hoping for Paul Fertser to take care about maintaining a 3.x kernel (repo) at Neo900.org (or wherever) to merge and coordinate the work done by HNS, freemangordon, SBE, and whoever contributes to upstream | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen fatphil | 15:11 |
| infobot | fatphil <~pcarmody@87-119-183-129.tll.elisa.ee> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 205d 16h 43m 51s ago, saying: 'fark! yeah, the broken clip had migrated a long way from where it should be. No exploding springs from the non-broken one '. | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Defiant: I hope the next prototype will bring more stuff you'll find exciting. E.G. the "multitouch" dualtouch-gesture-recognition in touchscreen. And display half at large brought up to operation (minus frontcam). All sensors. Kbd (incl [RGB?] backlight). Maybe some additional jacks tested to come on spacerframe... | 15:42 |
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| Defiant | DocScrutinizer05: sorry, didn't mean that, meant the money thing | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the money thing is an unavoidable annoyinace basically. Sorry we had it wrong from beginning and now need to sort it, but we're in better shape than we were some months ago now - just transfer needs to finish successfully | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for now ~60 transfers with a total of ~11k got accomplished, hoping for more to happen till end of month | 15:51 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: thanks for posting the full paste. I was going to attach it in a textfile to the post but I got called out. | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw, a negligence | 16:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | just frowned about pastebin which exires eventually, rendering another useful post in a forum moot | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | much like all the references to *external* pictures that sooner or later vanish leaving the post with broken embedded pictures | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I consider it a bug in vBulletin | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | embedding external sources is a NoGo basically, for various reasons | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: ^^^ | 16:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I prolly should have pasted straight into the forum, but I was under pressure to get to a job. | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | np, nevermind | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're free to edit your post, then I can delete mine | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just drop me a note when you do | 16:09 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Ok I'll do that now then to save the huge post, if that's ok | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure it is OK | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't worry about huge posts! :-) | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | better a huge post with actually useful info, than 30 posts with 95% quotes of noise, each | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I pretty much despise those fullquote posts - though sometimes even I do | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | luckily - after a rant from my side - vBulletin/tmo recently learned to not embed embedded photos in fullquotes anymore - at least that | 16:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | done | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | post#1 "look what I did: <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo>" - post#2 " [quote]look what I did: <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo> <embedded photo>[/quote] thanks!" | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | X-P | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: please share a link, I closed the thread | 16:16 |
| sixwheeledbeast | np, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1428683&postcount=13 | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cleaned :-) | 16:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | :) | 16:18 |
| M4rtinK2 | OK then, new modRana is out! :) | 16:37 |
| M4rtinK2 | should fix the tile loading issue that showed up after the previous update | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK2: \o/ | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK2: and a huge thanks for doing all this persevering maintenance which does a good job for keeping maemo5 attractive and alive | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas a lot of package maintainers abandoned ship for Harmattan and now even sailfish | 16:43 |
| M4rtinK2 | well, I just don't like dropping support for platforms left and right :) | 16:44 |
| M4rtinK2 | actually I still kinda support the Neo FreeRunner :) | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which isn't too devastating for more or less static stuff like e.g. irc clients, since IRC protocol is quite mature and fixed. Or even things like games or strictly local apps. But stuff that works with internet at large often sees changes in the public stuff (maps changing, Fahrplan website structure changing) which render the maemo5 app broken. | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | M4rtinK2: (Neo Freerunner) awesome! and in the end it benefits your project, since people see it's reliable and LTS | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly cheerfully whould drop crappy KDE4 at large - for example, if only KDE3 still received at least maintenance support | 16:48 |
| M4rtinK2 | well, there is already KDE5, you can drop 4 now :) | 16:49 |
| RST38h | Don't worry, KDE5 is even crappier | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | saying, a package's quality is not only determined by the obvious immediate properties but also by the trust you put into it to keep up support so your decision for a package isn't sth you regret a 6 months later | 16:50 |
| M4rtinK2 | DocScrutinizer05: well, there is still one friend using modRana on the Neo, don't know about anyone else but there could be some users somewhere | 16:50 |
| RST38h | So you can now complain of how KDE4 is something you would use if not for the lack of support | 16:50 |
| M4rtinK2 | still, it is not that maintenance intensive - it even has a newer Python version that Maemo 5 :) | 16:50 |
| M4rtinK2 | still, I've actually semi-dropped Harmattan | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* there is python3 available for maemo5, just not in core metapackage | 16:51 |
| M4rtinK2 | as it is the only platform that is currently covered only by the Qt4 GUI | 16:51 |
| M4rtinK2 | well, even 2.7 is there IIRC | 16:52 |
| M4rtinK2 | but that would add some considerable dependencies | 16:52 |
| M4rtinK2 | so I'm still using 2.5 as a baseline | 16:52 |
| M4rtinK2 | turns out one can write code that runs on 2.5 and 3.4 at the same time | 16:53 |
| M4rtinK2 | and the amount of hacks isn't even that crazy :) | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as the additional maintenance effort is manageable, it's for sure a good thing to keep it on 2.5 | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((turns out one can write code that runs on 2.5 and 3.4 at the same time)) this qualifies you as a truly mature and experienced developer :-) | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | twinklephone for example had compile options to build it with or without KDE integration, and even Qt/X11 integration. And the KDE enabled version still would run on non-KDE desktops, just the stuff that depends on e.g. kdepim would be disabled then | 16:58 |
| xes | M4rtinK: some time ago someone asked you about libgarmin support and vectormaps loader, have you some plan about that? Or am i missing something that is already working concerning this? | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the X11 version supposed to run on most of *nix versions out there (depending mainly on audio bindings), and the non-X11 version even should run on arbitrary platforms probably as long as they are posix, if only they have a cmd shell and a compatible/supported audio subsystem | 17:01 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: haven't worked on that yet | 17:02 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: haven't really even looked how libgarmin actually works | 17:02 |
| xes | M4rtinK: libgarmin can be compiled without problems inside maemo (and also navit works with it - but navit gui...is... not a gui) | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (twinklephone) the pity is that Qt4 basically killed twinklephone | 17:03 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: I guess it provides support for working with the Garmin map format ? | 17:04 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: and pulseaudio has done the remaining part of the killing twinkle | 17:04 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | there are still a few packages and updates coming through the builder. But yes I agree props to the likes of MartinK and Marxian for having multi-platform support. | 17:05 |
| xes | M4rtinK: yep, it's a configure option | 17:05 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: thanks! :) | 17:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | np, you deserve it. | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: well, kinda, since PolypAudio forced apps to switch their audio interface, thanks to PukeAudio not providing a *working* compatibility layer for apps using ALSA audio interface | 17:05 |
| M4rtinK2 | I really don't like the current bunch of incompatible platforms & mobile applications so I'm trying to do something about it :) | 17:06 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: has it some interface usable from Python ? | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | twinkle still works great, even under KDE4, but only when you give PA some decent hard kicks to bend it into shape, or completely get rid of that PA crap all together | 17:06 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: I guess it could be plugged in as a geometry provider for the rendering pipeline (well, once there is a pipeline :) ) | 17:07 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: I plan to have both quite independent so different data sources and rendering methods can be used, maybe even depending on platform | 17:08 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: for example Cairo vs using the QtQuick 2.0 Canvas directly | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: I admit the maintainers/devels of librtpcpp etc also did a `great´ job by shipping ABI-incompatible libs under same so-name | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a `great´ job to kill twinkle | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy | 17:09 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: or the Mapnik Maemo 5 port marmistrz did | 17:09 |
| M4rtinK2 | xes: but still a lot of work ahead so any help would be appreciated :) | 17:10 |
| xes | M4rtinK: i'm searching for a libgarmin's python interface.. | 17:11 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: i was used to use twinkle 10 hours a day for at least 4 years... not i can't anymore since it's completely intable with pulseaudio and latest ditro | 17:12 |
| xes | *distro | 17:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | did you ponder getting rid of PA? | 17:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or use a dedicated audiocard for twinkle that's not known and tainted by PA? | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: btw awesome to hear you used twinkle. maybe eventually you are in the mood to check the german translation ;-) | 17:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: actually it seems nobody but you and a few callcenters really understood the power of twinklephone. It is more powerful than any other SIP softphone I know of, thanks to the scripting and rich config options | 17:16 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: it was working great with a bluetooth earpiece... now setup it again removing PA while every app is using it, i can't expect a good result | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, BT is a problem since it doesn't come with PA-free drivers for audio | 17:18 |
| M4rtinK2 | ...and then there is the Bluez 4/5 trainwreck :) | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however maybe you could use bluez to make a BT dongle appear like a normal ALSA audiocard in /dev/audio/* and then just use that for twinklephone | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PA is an annoyance already, Bluez however turns it into a killer PITA | 17:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | alas twinkle's audio interface depends on functions like buffer clear which PA doesn't offer | 17:22 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: i have tried also sflphone.. :( complete no-go. It continuosly hangs channels inside asterisk.... | 17:22 |
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| xes | M4rtinK: maybe this could be a starting point: http://granjow.net/projects.html#garmin | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: Michel deBoer - author of twinklephone - also contributed to several RFCs for SIP ;-) | 18:01 |
| Apic | Nice. | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-boer-sip-src-00.txt for example. Michel worked at Lucent (and iirc does again now) | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://tools.ietf.org/googleresults?cx=011177064926444307064%3Arsqif7nmmi0&q=M+de+Boer&sa=Google+Search&cof=FORID%3A9&siteurl=tools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2F&ref=&ss=3575j2386295j11 | 18:07 |
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| xes | DocScrutinizer05: was twinkle abandoned only due qt4? | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: you should expect the tool he wrote to test SIP servers would be standards compliant | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly because twinkle used qt3 in a way that created incompatibilities with qt4 regarding thread-safe iirc | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qt4 has a different concept of concurrent threats | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which would cause all sorts of deadlock situations when simply brinlessly porting twinkle-qt3 to qt4 | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | brainlessly* | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus it would need a *complete* redesign of twinkle's GUI | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not the layout but the "API" | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the "binding" | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's how I seem to recall what Michel told me | 18:14 |
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| xes | DocScrutinizer05: ok, thanks | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and since Michel always been rather annoyed by alll aspects of having to create a UI for his tool, it been a clear decision to not do the qt4 move | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (in the and 50 .. 75% of UI design been based on my suggestions) | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (as well as 90% of scripting hooks, and 50% of smdline interface) | 18:17 |
| xes | it's sad that it doesn't have a least a command line ui (afaik) | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *in the End* | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/2cdc5b411e | 18:20 |
| Maxdamantus | smd lines | 18:21 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: ops, i missed it! So why leave the entire project? | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Michel lost interest | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly got pissed by qt | 18:22 |
| xes | probably if they had continued supporting pulseaudio the application would still be the best and maybe someone else would have contributed giving it a new gui | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/08/plasma-desktopOT1787.png | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pukeaudio is missing functions twinkle needs to do proper audio output, aiui | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and Nichel been completely detached from audio interface - even got it "donated" by another developer | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Michel* | 18:27 |
| merlin1991 | damn bootlooping n900, and no idea why | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 18:27 |
| merlin1991 | my best guess is it's a battery problem, because I don't even get to the bootmenu menu, only up till u-boot | 18:27 |
| FIQ | ahh | 18:28 |
| FIQ | time for the yearly update check | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: twinkle even builds a qt-free cmdline-only binary with every make, iirc | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: so what about uBoot menu? | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is that stable? | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is there such a thing like uBoot menu at all? (I dunno, honestly) | 18:30 |
| merlin1991 | well it always gets that far thank to flabat recovery ... | 18:31 |
| merlin1991 | yes with any semi recent (years by now?) old u-boot you get a menu when the keyboard is up while booting | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | flatbat recovery stops when device boots 8or rather other way round) | 18:31 |
| merlin1991 | yep | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and uBoot afaik doesn't do any charging | 18:32 |
| merlin1991 | then u-boot menu kicks in, and then it dies again :D | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's bat then | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless uBoot menu timeout and autoboot kicks in | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or watchdog | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (30s ?) | 18:33 |
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| FIQ | I find it a bit silly that bootmenu has a timeout of 30s while the device will be killed by watchdog when 7s left | 18:33 |
| FIQ | before it selects default that is | 18:34 |
| FIQ | or whatever it does after 30s | 18:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: lemme dare a far fetched guess: you sored away the N900 incl battery depeleted, for 6 months. Now cell is dead, killed by storage at depleted charge state | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stored* | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~batteryfaq | 18:36 |
| infobot | somebody said batteryfaq was http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers | 18:36 |
| merlin1991 | it actually booted in my pr1.3.1 device :) (swapped the batteries) | 18:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 18:36 |
| FIQ | ok so there's 2 updates in HAM | 18:36 |
| FIQ | one for ssu package | 18:37 |
| FIQ | and one for ssu enabler | 18:37 |
| FIQ | do I have to do these in any particular order? | 18:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | update for cssu-enabler??? :-o | 18:37 |
| merlin1991 | okay this weird | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf? | 18:37 |
| merlin1991 | I did put the now semi charged battery back into the original phone | 18:37 |
| merlin1991 | charger in, act dead booting fails at u-boot "starting kernel" | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh god, it booted | 18:38 |
| FIQ | [17:37:30] <DocScrutinizer05> update for cssu-enabler??? :-o | 18:38 |
| merlin1991 | charger out, battery out, batter in, turn it on by hand | 18:38 |
| merlin1991 | just boots | 18:38 |
| merlin1991 | wtf | 18:38 |
| FIQ | anything weird with this? | 18:38 |
| merlin1991 | FIQ: depends, what version is your cssu-enabler? | 18:39 |
| FIQ | Community SSU enabler 0.7-4+thumb1 20kB | 18:39 |
| FIQ | um | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-enabler actually should get uninstalled after cssu enabled | 18:39 |
| FIQ | how do I check? | 18:39 |
| FIQ | let's see | 18:39 |
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| merlin1991 | dpkg -l community-ssu-enabler | 18:39 |
| FIQ | dpkg -l I guess | 18:39 |
| FIQ | yeah | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see what for you'd need the enabler on a CSSU system | 18:39 |
| FIQ | 0.7-4 | 18:39 |
| FIQ | is installed | 18:40 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: no idea, I just followed the installation process | 18:40 |
| FIQ | somehow it stayed | 18:40 |
| merlin1991 | FIQ: you got thumb on your system? | 18:40 |
| FIQ | yes | 18:40 |
| merlin1991 | there you are | 18:40 |
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| FIQ | Tmaemo9.1+thumb0 | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I strongly deprecate updating the enabler | 18:40 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon made a new version, because installing thumb on a non errata fixed kernel blows up in your face | 18:40 |
| FIQ | so what should I do? uninstall the enabler? | 18:41 |
| FIQ | ah | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i'm no expert of enabler, but it sounds *very* fishy | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it would reset your catalogs I guess | 18:41 |
| merlin1991 | don't uninstall the enabler, but no need to update it either | 18:41 |
| FIQ | ok | 18:41 |
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| merlin1991 | it's just for the brave people that install thumb on stock kernel nowadays (doesn't work anymore since the libc thumb build) | 18:42 |
| FIQ | so what's the difference between Tmaemo9.1+thumb0 and thumb1? | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *cough* | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one version diff ;-) | 18:43 |
| merlin1991 | are there any known incompatabilities with backupmenu and act-dead charging? | 18:43 |
| Apic | Tmaemo9.1+ and the Digit | 18:43 |
| FIQ | Apic: I skipped that part because it stayed the same | 18:43 |
| Apic | ic | 18:43 |
| Apic | Good Algorithm. | 18:43 |
| FIQ | both are T9.1 :P | 18:43 |
| Apic | ic | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: definitely not | 18:43 |
| Apic | Will try to remember. | 18:43 |
| bencoh | looks like I have it (enabler) as well | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: well, you shouldn't expect act-dead when you plug in a phone with open slide | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* I uninstalled enabler as soon as I used it and CSSU got enabled - if only to get rid of the icon | 18:45 |
| merlin1991 | the icon is removed once you run it ... | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah | 18:46 |
| FIQ | I don't have the icon | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it should deinstall itself rather | 18:46 |
| FIQ | hmm | 18:46 |
| FIQ | I wonder if it would be possible to make a de-cssu package | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no it isn't | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pali once tried that, but it been a fail more or less | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can't roll back from CSSU to stock, except with flashing or restoring a backup | 18:47 |
| FIQ | why not? new configurations that mess up in 1.3.1? | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lots of stuff | 18:48 |
| FIQ | shouldn't it be possible | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all sorts of patches done to core system, the thing CSSU got invented for | 18:49 |
| FIQ | to see exact what packages are updated, what changes are made | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you need to resore core system, aka "reflash" | 18:49 |
| FIQ | between an update from 1.3 to CSSU | 18:49 |
| FIQ | and "reverse" them all? | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why would anybody want to do that? | 18:49 |
| FIQ | the only thing I can see it useful for | 18:49 |
| FIQ | is if one wants to switch cssu branch | 18:50 |
| bencoh | cssu->testing for instance | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can switch stable->testing any time you want | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but not the reverse | 18:50 |
| FIQ | but not the other direction ;) | 18:50 |
| bencoh | oh ? I always thought this one would get messy as well | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, no problem in that one | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just "install" testing over your stable. Right, merlin1991? | 18:51 |
| merlin1991 | just enable the testing catalogue and install the metapackage update | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the hacker smart way | 18:52 |
| bencoh | neat | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but shouldn't cssu-testing *install* just fine, exactly like told on cssu howto page, over cssu-stable as well? | 18:53 |
| bencoh | I might give it a try some day ... but not before I get my hands on sb/maemo-sdk | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I:E: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: shoukd we update http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation to mention cssu-stable as a valid basis for installation of cssu-testing (along with PR1.3 and PR.1.3.1)? | 18:57 |
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| freemangordon | FIQ: | 19:21 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu-thumb | 19:22 |
| infobot | hmm... cssu-thumb is <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb | 19:22 |
| freemangordon | check the changelog | 19:22 |
| FIQ | btw after upgrade, device never rebooted | 19:22 |
| FIQ | but left me with a dead WM | 19:22 |
| freemangordon | happens sometimes | 19:22 |
| freemangordon | but should be ok after manually power down | 19:23 |
| FIQ | and I checked changelog @ package manager :P | 19:23 |
| freemangordon | good for you :) | 19:23 |
| FIQ | yeah everything seems ok | 19:23 |
| FIQ | nd yay for proper HAM | 19:23 |
| FIQ | *and | 19:23 |
| freemangordon | actually glibc in that last update brings problems, but I still can't find a way to rollback it to non-thumb version | 19:24 |
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| freemangordon | s/way/time/ | 19:24 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: actually glibc in that last update brings problems, but I still can't find a time to rollback it to non-thumb version | 19:24 |
| FIQ | what is the issues? | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: (when you read chanlog maybe) http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/08/plasma-desktopUq1787.png just works, for me | 19:25 |
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| freemangordon | FIQ: read on the very same thread | 19:25 |
| * freemangordon is afk | 19:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah proper ham! \o/ | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~speedyham | 19:27 |
| infobot | from memory, speedyham is http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/h/hildon-application-manager/hildon-application-manager_2.2.73-2_armel.deb, or in cssu-thumb | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *ouch* on thombified libc6 | 19:32 |
| FIQ | ah so libc6 is busted | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and it's probably a *very* bad idea to even touch libc6 on any system unless you absolutely have to, to make system work | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to make matters worse, I don't see any huge benefit in reduction of memory footprint from messing around with libc6, but a possible performance penalty (and obviously also possible instabilities) in *all* programs | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all libc6 is a shared library that only uses memory once, for all processes that use libc6 (== *all*) | 19:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and thumb is said to be slower than arm | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so even when you *theoretically* could squeeze dozens of MB out of thumbifying libc6, it's still not worth it | 19:38 |
| FIQ | thumb *is* slower than arm, but since N900's bottleneck is the lack of RAM, thumb compiled stuff with less memory footprint is a good idea | 19:39 |
| FIQ | libc6 though... | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and most likely you cannot squeeze out that amount of RAM from it, anyway | 19:39 |
| bencoh | I guess it depends on how slower it really compares | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: libc6 only gets loaded *once*, then the argument about bottleneck and bandwith to storage is absolutely moot | 19:40 |
| FIQ | yeah, hence "[18:39:08] <FIQ> libc6 though..." | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if I had to pick anything out of the average unix system I would recommend to throw huge amounts of RAM at to speed up the system by a marginal few percent, then that would be libc6 - unless I opted against that since libc6 is sacrosankt and a don't-touch item | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for touching it you usually get shot with old windows95 CDs | 19:43 |
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| FIQ | lol | 19:55 |
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| Nokiabot | . | 20:02 |
| Apic | , | 20:03 |
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| FIQ | ? | 20:05 |
| Nokiabot | ? | 20:06 |
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| FIQ | ! | 20:14 |
| Nokiabot | How dangerous is it when one charges battery by connecting wires to it inside phone ? Or using testpads ? | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | very dangerous | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | strictly deprecated | 20:16 |
| Nokiabot | Why ? How can i do it sanely ? | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need a special permission to do this. Called EE professional education | 20:18 |
| Nokiabot | I know :D | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=LiIOn+explosion | 20:18 |
| Nokiabot | But i need a poor man version . | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsAymO7Y9lU | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | here's your poor man version | 20:19 |
| FIQ | why do you want to do this | 20:19 |
| Nokiabot | Dont link me those they have already scared the hell out of me | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly what you asked for | 20:19 |
| FIQ | you can buy external chargers | 20:20 |
| FIQ | if you're lucky (like me) you get a good one which does the proper security checks and proper charging | 20:20 |
| FIQ | if you're unlucky... | 20:20 |
| FIQ | (I made sure to verify that the one I got was sane) | 20:20 |
| Nokiabot | I repaired a spare n900 but it got no usb as it needed to be ripped of along with some tiny black beads. | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you try to do such 2-wire stupid charging inside N900, you get even further risk of damaging the N900 electronics | 20:21 |
| FIQ | ooh broken usbs are always fun | 20:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | get a desktop charger to fit bl5j | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed! | 20:22 |
| FIQ | that's why I got a charger :P | 20:22 |
| dos1 | Nokiabot: I've got some old BL-5J based Nokia with broken screen for something like $5 on local equivalent of eBay | 20:22 |
| Nokiabot | What is a dextop charger ? | 20:22 |
| dos1 | and it works for me as a charger | 20:22 |
| FIQ | afaik nokia doesn't make their own | 20:22 |
| Nokiabot | I got a whole store of chargers | 20:22 |
| FIQ | so you have to rely on... stuff | 20:23 |
| Nokiabot | What i want is the battery to be inside | 20:23 |
| sixwheeledbeast | like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380877061430 there are also USB and car versions | 20:23 |
| dos1 | then fix USB | 20:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.nokia.com/global/search/?action=siteSearch&qt=bl-5j&weight=products | 20:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: Nokia actually builds a charger | 20:24 |
| FIQ | oh they do? | 20:24 |
| Nokiabot | @Dos check my thread i posted couple of days ago what do you think ?? | 20:24 |
| FIQ | didn't find when I checked 2y ago | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and it craps out on 1000mAh | 20:24 |
| FIQ | maybe I was just blind | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 20:24 |
| Nokiabot | @Doc | 20:25 |
| FIQ | let's try and find whatever I got | 20:25 |
| Nokiabot | @doc i was thinking if i use a good charger with battery protection outside ? | 20:26 |
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| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: microB doesn't like that site | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | surprise surprise X-P | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokiabot: *might* work, low risk of exploding battery but still high risk of killing N900, and probably charging won't work anyway this way | 20:28 |
| Nokiabot | So actually i need to relay on external charger finally ?? I wanted that piece 24x7 :( | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokiabot: please omit "@" and use <tab> (or whatever your client has) to nick-complete. I have no highlight on "doc" | 20:29 |
| Nokiabot | It got nothing check jmirc | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokiabot: it *is* possible to maintain battery in device in a usb-broken N900, but it's not exactly simple and needs EE skills to do it right | 20:30 |
| Nokiabot | :p | 20:30 |
| FIQ | jmirc... | 20:31 |
| FIQ | from what I saw coolIRC makes jmirc obsolete | 20:31 |
| FIQ | but it's still a terrible client... not that there is any good j2me irc clients | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>mIRC provides basic tab-completion functionality that will be familiar to anyone who's used a modern command-line interface. Type the first letter or so of a nickname and press the Tab key. mIRC will then complete the rest of the nickname for you, as shown in . If more than one nick starts with the part that you typed, mIRC will allow you to cycle through the available options by repeatedly pressing the Tab key.<< | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc about jmirc | 20:32 |
| Nokiabot | I already said i know i requires a hell lota knowledge what i was asking is as i got a bit of experience maybe i could do with some instructions | 20:32 |
| FIQ | jmirc is a j2me irc client | 20:32 |
| FIQ | that isn't even remotely close to mIRC | 20:33 |
| FIQ | besides name | 20:33 |
| FIQ | (which is probably intentional) | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokiabot: yes, for sure possible | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokiabot: "docS: would be welcome as highlight | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokiabot: "docS:" would be welcome as highlight | 20:33 |
| FIQ | doc brown | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no highlight on doc | 20:34 |
| Nokiabot | docS | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops sorry! actually "docscr.*" is a highlight regex | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so "docscr:" would work | 20:35 |
| Nokiabot | Docscr | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 20:35 |
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| Nokiabot | Gonna get a raspberry pi after exams | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokiabot: you need an external power source that's hard limited to 4.200V *exactly*, and has a sort of current limiter which could be as simple as a 1Ohm 1Watt resistor | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather 1.5Ohm | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with a better circuit you could adjust current limit to 950mA | 20:38 |
| Nokiabot | An rj45 cable actuall powers it normaly like a battery so i was wondering if i can easily use a charger | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | independant of voltage of battery. This would help speed up the charging | 20:38 |
| Nokiabot | Avove idea is doable | 20:39 |
| Nokiabot | How | 20:39 |
| vakkov | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93277 | 20:40 |
| Nokiabot | What independent to voltage of battery means ? | 20:40 |
| vakkov | interesting | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vakkov: we know it already, but thanks :-) | 20:41 |
| vakkov | of course you know about it ... the question is: is there going to be any benefit of that | 20:41 |
| Nokiabot | Docscr :what independent to voltage of battery means ? | 20:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokiabot: it means that when your battery is at 4.07Volt, then the simple 1Ohm series resistor current limiter would reduce charging current to 1(Ohm)/(4.200 - 4.070)(Volt) | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err sorry, * | 20:43 |
| Nokiabot | Limiting the current will need help | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (4.200 - 4.070)(Volt) / 1(Ohm) | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so charging battery at 130mA inst4ead of a possible 950mA | 20:44 |
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| Nokiabot | I will be slow na ? | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a proper charger chip handles all that for you, doing a ConstantCurrent-ConstantVoltage (CCCV) charging, and also stopping charging eventually when battery is full, something that's very important as well | 20:45 |
| Nokiabot | Oh man what kind of weird ideas i had thought of !! | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a *decent* lab PSU has adjusting dials to set it to 4200mV at a current limit of 950mA | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you could use such lab PSU as well | 20:46 |
| Nokiabot | Chip ?? Err thas hard where can i find one | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, (getting and *using* the chip) that's EE knowledge I can't transfer to you in IRC on answering a few questions you ask | 20:48 |
| Nokiabot | Humm i will talk later i need to do a bit of research to talk further. | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or get a lab PSU as I suggested, and make sure you don't touch the dials after you adjusted it to 4200mV 950mA : http://www.aimtti.com/psu2/?gclid=CPr-wafr6r4CFQeWtAodRWwAmA | 20:49 |
| Nokiabot | I can get acess to lap psu :) | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but then you still want to make sure you don't run that stuff 24/7 like that, you should stop charging after a few hours, and resume it only much later | 20:50 |
| bencoh | getting a lab PSU definitely is a good idea anyway if you want to start fiddling with that kind of stuff :) | 20:50 |
| Nokiabot | Ok ok i will get oversaturated now | 20:51 |
| Nokiabot | Gonna be great time after exams | 20:52 |
| Nokiabot | Thanx | 20:53 |
| Nokiabot | All | 20:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | M4rtinK2: I have just noticed that even if you set units to imperial everything menu wise is still in m/ km. | 20:54 |
| Nokiabot | Cm would be great :p | 20:55 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders whether to get a proper lab PSU, with USB/ethernet remote control | 21:15 | |
| jpinx | yea - and a TV controller :) | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 21:22 |
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| Apic | http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/super-computer-passes-turing-test-in-uk/story-e6frfkui-1226947759554 | 22:07 |
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| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: you mean like in options or in the batch download menu ? | 23:06 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: well, yeah, that could be improved :) | 23:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | both IIRC | 23:06 |
| M4rtinK2 | still the question is which is the correct solution | 23:06 |
| M4rtinK2 | just converting the values to the corresponding unit an showing them | 23:07 |
| M4rtinK2 | or having a different set of values | 23:07 |
| M4rtinK2 | that don't look ugly | 23:07 |
| M4rtinK2 | because 5 km -> 3.125 miles | 23:08 |
| M4rtinK2 | well, I could round it to 3.1, but still | 23:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | M4rtinK2: currently 44k/66k tiles downloading | 23:08 |
| M4rtinK2 | that isn't that much :) | 23:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | M4rtin: well are tiles only available in km? | 23:09 |
| bencoh | tiles of ? | 23:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | the options in question are "Units: km or miles" and "Small imperial units: yrds and ft" | 23:12 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | bencoh: modRana map tile | 23:12 |
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| bencoh | oh | 23:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | if they are only available in km then it makes sense to leave them in km but provide a approx. miles value for us imperial folk | 23:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | this is the downloads section I am talking about here | 23:14 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: well, that just sets the download radius | 23:14 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: tiles don't care about units | 23:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | are the tiles not in x by x km squares? | 23:15 |
| M4rtinK2 | all have the same dimension (256x256) and and an unique z x y coordinate | 23:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | nope :) | 23:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | the use the spherical mercator projection | 23:16 |
| bencoh | and even if they were you'd only need to download enough tiles to cover the area | 23:16 |
| bencoh | (no need to have an exact match) | 23:16 |
| M4rtinK2 | so they are actually geting "smaller" towards the poles :) | 23:17 |
| M4rtinK2 | just check the scale indicator in the lower left | 23:18 |
| M4rtinK2 | if you move the map to north from the equator (or south) it has still the same length but shows a lower number :) | 23:19 |
| M4rtinK2 | so depending on which area you are downloading you should probably get more or less tiles :) | 23:20 |
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| M4rtinK2 | but the radius itself is...lets say pretty approximate :) | 23:20 |
| M4rtinK2 | https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana/blob/master/modules/mod_menu.py#L1118 | 23:21 |
| M4rtinK2 | and it is not a circle actually but a square :) | 23:21 |
| sixwheeledbeast | M4rtinK: ok, well, an example. I know how far 70 miles is on a map but in kliks I am useless. I would have to calculate from "~62miles in 100kliks", some may not know this. | 23:23 |
| sixwheeledbeast | smaller towards the poles, makes sense :) | 23:24 |
| M4rtinK2 | IIRC the geometry gets pretty messy around the poles :) | 23:25 |
| bencoh | pretty much yeah | 23:25 |
| M4rtinK2 | same thing probably around the data line | 23:25 |
| M4rtinK2 | I'm pretty sure modRana does not properly handle routing over the international data line | 23:25 |
| M4rtinK2 | oh, it is "date line" | 23:26 |
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| M4rtinK2 | still, a valid point about the units in menu | 23:26 |
| M4rtinK2 | I'll add it to my issue list :) | 23:26 |
| M4rtinK2 | hmm, now looking on the code that takes the radius as input | 23:31 |
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| M4rtinK2 | it seems to work entirely with tile coordinates | 23:31 |
| M4rtinK2 | and seems to depend on the zoom level that is in the middle of the selected range | 23:32 |
| M4rtinK2 | (this code comes from Rana and is from ~2008) | 23:32 |
| M4rtinK2 | so I would say the radius size is very VERY approximate :D | 23:33 |
| M4rtinK2 | on the other hand haven't got any complains on the radius size in the 4 years I've been working on modRana :) | 23:34 |
| M4rtinK2 | so if anyone want s to track the proper unit support in menu items, the issue is here: https://github.com/M4rtinK/modrana/issues/43 | 23:42 |
| sixwheeledbeast | cool, thanks M4rtinK. So professional :P | 23:45 |
| M4rtinK2 | if I were really professional I would have my own GitLab instance & continuous integration running for modRana :P | 23:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | M4rtinK: oh, another question. Does the QML version come automatically with the GTK version on N900? | 23:47 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: currently yes | 23:47 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: but it would not be bad to have a subpackage for it | 23:48 |
| bencoh | do you try keeping both version in sync or is one supposed to die peacefully ? | 23:49 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: as it drags quite a lot of stuff with it people not using it don't need | 23:49 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I have never tried to use the QML version, I guess it has similar functionality? | 23:49 |
| M4rtinK2 | bencoh: well, the Qt4 QML GUI is indeed kinda dead at the moment | 23:49 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: unfortunately it doesn't :) | 23:49 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: it is faster and has a few extra features such as support for arbitrary overlay layer count or GPS status monitoring | 23:50 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ah | 23:51 |
| M4rtinK2 | sixwheeledbeast: but many important features such as routing, logging, tracklogs & tbt are not exposed | 23:51 |
| sixwheeledbeast | oh | 23:51 |
| M4rtinK2 | on the other hand I'm working on the Qt 5 GUI (this is used on the Jolla and on desktop currently) | 23:51 |
| M4rtinK2 | and want to get it to feature parity with the GTK one | 23:52 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I see why they are still stuck together for the time being then | 23:52 |
| M4rtinK2 | (the Qt 5 GUI also uses QML and is based on the Qt 4 QML GUI) | 23:52 |
| M4rtinK2 | BTW, if anyone would be willing to package PyOtherSide | 23:53 |
| M4rtinK2 | (https://github.com/thp/pyotherside) | 23:53 |
| M4rtinK2 | it would be possible to run the Qt 5 GUI on the N900 | 23:53 |
| M4rtinK2 | there is already Python 3 & Qt 5 ported over, the two other dependencies needed :) | 23:54 |
| bencoh | how does qt5 behave on n900 btw ? | 23:55 |
| bencoh | (isn't it a tiny bit "too much" for it ?) | 23:55 |
| M4rtinK2 | reportedly works fine | 23:55 |
| M4rtinK2 | well, it actually should be more optimized than Qt 5 | 23:55 |
| bencoh | than 4* you mean ? | 23:56 |
| M4rtinK2 | that was IIRC actually one of the main goals of Qt 5 :) | 23:56 |
| M4rtinK2 | oh, right | 23:56 |
| M4rtinK2 | *than Qt 4 | 23:56 |
| bencoh | last time I tried qt5 on n900 was with nemo .... was quite slow | 23:56 |
| M4rtinK2 | this is the relevant thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84782 | 23:58 |
| bencoh | oh, thx | 23:58 |
| M4rtinK2 | and this the relevant wiki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt5-Maemo5 | 23:58 |
| M4rtinK2 | I would try building PyOtherSide myself but unfortunately my scratchbox setup it busted | 23:59 |
| M4rtinK2 | and I haven't yet managed to get it working again | 23:59 |
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