IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-09-18

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kerioDocScrutinizer05: deepy's n900 can't seem to figure out if the kbd slider is open or closed00:04
keriodeepy: try opening and closing it again \_o_/00:08
keriohm, are you getting weird messages in dmesg?00:08
freemangordonkerio: wait, kbd light stays on if you have RD mode enabled00:08
keriofreemangordon: yeah but he doesn't have rd mode enabled00:08
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freemangordonkerio: are you sure?00:10
keriofreemangordon: he also gets bootmenu every time, as if his keyboard is open00:11
freemangordonkerio: well, then it is not HW00:12
keriohuh? you mean that it's not SW?00:12
freemangordondeepy: did you flash your device when you got it?00:13
freemangordonkerio: if kbd open/closed is correctly detected during early boot, then i'll consider that SW until proven wrong00:13
keriofreemangordon: no, he *always* gets bootmenu, even when the kbd slider is closed00:14
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freemangordonkerio: aah, ok, my bad then00:18
freemangordonnot good :(00:18
keriowhere's the sensor for the keyboard slider?00:19
freemangordonnot sure, but IIRC soldered to the mainboard00:20
freemangordonbut it could be the magnet as well00:20
keriofreemangordon: could it be just clogged or something00:20
freemangordoniirc it is magnetic00:20
freemangordonbut you'd better ask doc or estel about it00:21
deepyfreemangordon: yes00:21
deepyheh, had scrolled up by accident00:21
deepyE: Couldn't find package dosbox00:24
deepyI don't know what I'm doing wrong00:24
deepyand devel is gone gaain00:25
keriodeepy: more importantly, you have a hw problem :s00:25
deepyHow severe are they?00:25
keriothe kbd slider sensor should be fairly robust00:26
kerioask DocScrutinizer, he's the EE00:26
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deepyHe seems to be away00:28
deepyCan I do "just charging" over USB?00:28
deepyApparently that's okay at work, but usb devices is a no-go00:28
keriodeepy: yeah, tap on the blurred area00:29
keriothat's the generic "cancel" or "close dialog" button00:29
deepyJust wanted to be sure that worked00:29
deepythey yell security breach and laugh at work00:29
deepyGonna try out the battery life now00:33
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DocScrutinizer05i'm NEVER away00:40
DocScrutinizer05is internet away ever? is skynet sleeping?00:40
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51 never sleeps00:41
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DocScrutinizer05slider detector failure frequently caused by magnet got loose00:42
DocScrutinizer05and lost00:42
DocScrutinizer05if you're lucky it sticks to some ferromagnetic surface inside the phone00:42
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freemangordondeepy: ^^^00:43
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: well, a piece of fridge magned will do the job, no?00:43
DocScrutinizer05get my slider-swoosh to easily detect slider sensor operation00:46
DocScrutinizer05(search tmo for "swoosh"00:46
DocScrutinizer05shake device vigorously to maybe hear magnet falling around00:47
DocScrutinizer05hall sensor / reede contact is somewhere above "uio" keys iirc00:47
DocScrutinizer05magnet is in screen half00:48
freemangordonit should be non-conducting, ain;t? a ferromagnite?00:48
freemangordonthe fuck00:48
DocScrutinizer05might be a cobal nickel00:48
freemangordonI need some sleep00:48
DocScrutinizer05nite freemangordon ;-P00:49
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freemangordonaah, yes, the stand magnet is shiny00:49
luffreemangordon: WTF how can you sleep! It's too much work for you ...00:49
DocScrutinizer05fridge magnet plasitc also is shiny00:49
DocScrutinizer05luf: prepare coffee!00:50
DocScrutinizer05sudo make me a sandwich00:50
freemangordonit is 0:48 here, and I am ill00:51
freemangordonI deffinitely out00:51
DocScrutinizer05strange, here it's 23:5200:51
freemangordon(according to my PC clock)00:52
DocScrutinizer05(according to my PC clock)00:52
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DocScrutinizer05actually a lie, been 23:51:5200:52
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: hurry, you're already 3 minutes late!00:53
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DocScrutinizer05me mumbles NTP and heads off to TV00:54
deepyI'm gonna search tMO For swoosh01:00
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internetishardn900 needs audo cloud backup, like other mobiles02:04
infobotsomebody said cloud was an experienced Zaurus user02:13
internetishardI don't get it02:21
internetishardover my head!02:21
* DocScrutinizer05 introduces kraut computing02:22
internetishardYEah, I used a buzzword :(02:22
DocScrutinizer05~dict audo02:22
infobotcould not find definition for audo02:22
DocScrutinizer05is /me02:23
internetishardI can't find one either!02:23
DocScrutinizer05~spell audo02:23
infobotpossible spellings for audo: Audi audio Ado ado Audy auto Aldo judo ludo02:23
internetishardI need to install extra-devel as you said above, though this is my everyday phone02:24
internetishardDocScrutinizer, how's your study of cosmology been?02:24
internetishardJust been doing software lately, and not much physics?02:24
DocScrutinizer05still looking out for balck mater panets02:24
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DocScrutinizer05still looking out for black mater planets02:25
internetishardblack mater? lol!02:25
internetisharddark matter?02:25
DocScrutinizer05whatever, I'm not even supposed to sit at this friggin PC02:25
internetishardon top of it?02:25
internetishardYeah, it might break!02:25
* DocScrutinizer05 got a serious adiction problem02:25
internetishardcomputer addiction?02:26
internetishardyou're in AUS, right?02:26
internetishardIt's all about breaking the cycle.02:26
internetishardFortunately, in your case of addiction, people like me benefit from your knowledge02:26
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: we just talked about BM02:26
internetishardno one calls it that... Are you trolling?02:27
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: might BM learn to not brainlessly restore /lib7modules ?02:27
robbiethe1stI was thinking... Has anyone ever messed with turning the N900 into a USB HID in hostmode?02:27
robbiethe1stUh... lib7modules?02:27
DocScrutinizer05(for unknown reasons my right shift key or finger doesn't work)02:28
robbiethe1stWhy not? If it didn't, you'd end up with a non-functional device, as there'd be no kernel drivers...?02:28
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DocScrutinizer05you might restore non-mathing kernel modules02:28
DocScrutinizer05I envision some kind of test (first step of enterprise)02:29
DocScrutinizer05to make sure .ko matches mtd002:29
robbiethe1stSo? I mean, the kernel won't pick them up unless it's running that version; the only problem comes when the kernel on the kernel partition doesn't have drivers in the backup02:29
DocScrutinizer05next step of "we conquer the world": make kenel backups and restore them02:30
robbiethe1stI'd expect the /correct/ thing to do would be to somehow keep a Nokia Stock kernel on disk and write it to the kernel partition.02:30
robbiethe1stActually, what would be involved with writing a kernel - it's seemingly not a mtd partition or anything, just raw data to raw flash?02:31
DocScrutinizer05nanddump, nandwrite02:31
robbiethe1stWould DD not work? If it did any bad-block correction it wouldn't, but, does that partition?02:32
DocScrutinizer05nanddump/write handles OOB02:32
DocScrutinizer05  -j, --jffs2             Force jffs2 oob layout (legacy support)02:33
DocScrutinizer05  -y, --yaffs             Force yaffs oob layout (legacy support)02:33
DocScrutinizer05  -m, --markbad           Mark blocks bad if write fails02:33
DocScrutinizer05  -o, --oob               Image contains oob data02:33
robbiethe1stBut what does the kernel partition have? I didn't think it had either?02:34
DocScrutinizer05NAND has OOB to handle bad blocks02:34
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DocScrutinizer05Usage: nandwrite [OPTION] MTD_DEVICE [INPUTFILE|-]02:35
DocScrutinizer05Writes to the specified MTD device.02:35
DocScrutinizer05  -a, --autoplace         Use auto oob layout02:35
DocScrutinizer05oob == out of band (iirc)02:35
DocScrutinizer05the 17th bit of a 16bit word02:36
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DocScrutinizer05BEWARE: >>mtd_torturetest: this test is designed to wear out flash eraseblocks<< it *does*!02:47
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DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: also backup/restore CAL ;-)02:51
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DocScrutinizer51aka config02:57
DocScrutinizer51the heart of N90002:57
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DocScrutinizer51search chanlog for "nandtester"02:59
DocScrutinizer51this poor guy probably would invite you to his wedding for providing a way to restore CAL03:01
robbiethe1stWhat's the problem - lock code?03:02
DocScrutinizer51also interesting: mtd_debug (binary)03:02
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robbiethe1stWouldn't it be possible to just make a backup through root terminal mode which is available now?03:03
robbiethe1st(of CAL that is)03:03
DocScrutinizer51nandtester's problem? he nuked cal03:03
DocScrutinizer51robbiethe1st: i guess yes as long as nanddump available03:04
robbiethe1stJust thinking, for nandtester03:04
robbiethe1stget someone else to make a backup, upload to the web...03:05
DocScrutinizer51actuelly CAL backup/restore doesn't depend on BM03:05
DocScrutinizer51(backup) to be found on my server03:05
robbiethe1stYou've got a nanddump up there or...?03:06
DocScrutinizer51a cal dump03:06
DocScrutinizer51yaknow I dont giva fsck about 'UUUH my IMEI!!"03:07
DocScrutinizer51IMEI are two dozen a penny03:08
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DocScrutinizer51so are MAC03:08
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internetishardDocScrutinizer you should make a blog or reading list for people03:12
internetishardyou've a website?03:12
internetishardRemember our conversation on consmology?03:13
DocScrutinizer51I got almost 300 victims here ;-P03:14
DocScrutinizer51sure I remember03:15
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DocScrutinizer51remembering id my toolset for what I'm doing here03:15
DocScrutinizer51they already called me DocWiki03:16
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internetishardDocScrutinizer what are your primary interests?03:23
internetishardI think you could be one of those people who help us get the next n90003:23
internetishardI'm signing up to be the guy who networks the contacts you need to make it happen03:23
internetishardWith todays processes - and the right people - one could put together an open source hardware snapdraggon awesome phone03:24
DocScrutinizer51google for gta04, /join #jollamobile and tell them they need me ;-)03:25
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SpeedEvilinternetishard: open source hardware is hard,03:28
internetishardah, I don't mean open source hardware like that. I mean form a company that makes money off selling it just like the other HW makers03:30
internetishardDocScrutinizer doesn't openmoko want you??03:30
SpeedEvilopen moko is dead03:30
internetishardwell he mentioned gta04 - tell them they need me...03:31
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DocScrutinizer05I've been vice head of hw development in openmoko03:35
internetishardreally? what are your ambitions?03:36
DocScrutinizer05(new) gta04 is made by goldelico (with a little help from me)03:36
DocScrutinizer05jolla is the nokia-maemo-subdivision-ressurrected03:38
DocScrutinizer05they told they want to ship first device end of this year, so they already missted the point when they should've hired me03:39
internetishardwhy wouldn't they?03:39
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internetishardjust lack of funds, right?03:40
internetishardI believe there is an industry out there big enough to find a cutting edge HW device that would run a real open linux distro03:40
SpeedEvillikely someone's got candidate hardware in mind.03:40
internetishardand would want all sorts of sensors and modular HW03:40
* SpeedEvil sighs.03:40
SpeedEvilI wish I'd written down my 'modularity is hard' ant03:41
internetishardno, I get that03:41
internetishardmaking a galaxy and iphone is hard too03:41
internetishardI'm just saying there is an industry out there03:41
internetishardI think if the right peopel were together and they marketed it correctly03:42
internetishardit could self sustain03:42
internetishardand actually be decent in supported tech vs the modern smartphones03:42
SpeedEvilyou need several million dollars per model of cutting edge he03:43
DocScrutinizer05look, there's a plethora of nice hw, ready to buy. What you need is an OS for it, and no company is going to build a hw to support a yet-to-develop OS03:43
DocScrutinizer05I suggested to Nokia to sell their phones dual-OS, maybe 3 years ago. Sell them with primary OS being sybian/windoze/whatever, plus proper board-support-package to allow community to port linux to it03:45
DocScrutinizer05this will blow android shit outa the water03:45
robbiethe1stCouldn't you do the same with some Chinese vendor?03:46
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robbiethe1stJust deal with them, they provide the OEM device, you the software, they sell sw-less devices03:46
SpeedEvilChinese vendors have massive cultural problems with open source03:46
robbiethe1stCan't be any worse than US vendors...03:46
SpeedEvilmany do not comply with existing legal requirements - GPL.03:46
DocScrutinizer05believe me, it is03:47
SpeedEviloh yes, it can.03:47
DocScrutinizer05I bought a cheesy lil featurephone noname, with linux on it, some 4 years ago. Goldelico managed to get some 5 from China. It had no shell, no sourcecode provided, nuttin03:48
DocScrutinizer05so despite it's linux, it's just as bad as any random proprietary crap for me03:49
robbiethe1stI'd expect you'd have to go to the mfgr /first/ and deal with whoever is willing to deal with you on your terms.03:49
robbiethe1stLike the allwinner cpu-card folks did03:49
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robbiethe1stSo... speaking of closed source, is anyone else waiting for Steam on Linux?03:53
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SpeedEvilthe last game I purchased was angry birds space.03:54
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internetishardDocScrutinizer05: I think you just need to find the right people. When you get them in the same place, they'll: find the demand and niches for a quality linux phone03:56
internetishardthis might need to start in india or somewhere, but I think it could just as easily start in the bay area (where I live)03:56
DocScrutinizer05there were such meetings. goldelico resulted from it03:56
internetishardI was part of a startup that built it's own touch screen device in under a year with 15 people03:56
DocScrutinizer05rather: gta04 resulted from it03:57
internetishardsure sure, and that's fine and dandy03:57
internetishardbut it's no android alternative03:57
internetishardOne can go much further in that direction.03:57
DocScrutinizer05I think Nikolaus did it with as little as 50k€ so far, plus tousands of hours of his work03:58
DocScrutinizer05no venture capital03:58
internetishardA 20 person startup could do it by getting together the people with money who aren't satisfied by android, iOS, or blackberry - and finding mutualistic solutions03:58
internetishardThat's one possible route, but I do think there is plenty of capital for such a project.03:59
DocScrutinizer05go ahead, we'll follow03:59
internetishardDocScrutinizer05 where do you live?03:59
internetishardI've my own startup to deal with, but I love connecting people?03:59
internetishard? -> ! :P03:59
internetishardAre you natively german?04:00
internetishardI used to live in Stockholm04:00
internetishardKnowing the culture helps me connect people :)04:00
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internetishardI'm trying to think of who might be hurting for a smartphone platform more than anyone else... Who would be the most driven...04:01
DocScrutinizer05I talked with Raster, with Nikolaus from Goldelico, with those french guys from bearstech04:01
DocScrutinizer05with Wolfgang Spraul, Wernr Almesberger04:01
internetishardDocScrutinizer05, wouldn't this theoretical platform eventually be able to run iOS and Android apps in VMs?04:01
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DocScrutinizer05iOS hardly, Android why not04:02
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internetishardhmm, well I run OSX VMs on linux boxes (against the license agreement, but it works fine)04:02
robbiethe1stinternetishard, what's your touchscreen device if I may ask?04:03
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DocScrutinizer51OSX is supposed to run on ISAish hw04:03
internetishardrobbiethe1st: I've probably fucked around on IRC too much to be an official employee on here04:04
internetishardbut it's in the "mobile health" arena ;)04:04
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keriogoddammit i can never find robbiethe1st online08:02
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* DocScrutinizer05 prods GeneralAntilles to stand for council/board08:20
* GeneralAntilles swats DocScrutinizer05 with a broom.08:20
DocScrutinizer05tough times need tough men ;-)08:21
DocScrutinizer05yay, 244 users. Feels like new all time low08:23
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DocScrutinizer05243 :-o08:24
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DocScrutinizer05MWKN: is that or now?08:29
DocScrutinizer05>>Klippr is a meego client for With you can ...<<08:29
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DocScrutinizer05yay, even kippt08:32
DocScrutinizer05>>Klippr - N9 client for link organiser, \\  Martin Borho has released a new app, Klippr. Klippr is a meego client for With you can organize, archive and search your links. It features also a "Read Later" option, similar to instapaper or others.<<08:33
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kerioyo deepy15:02
keriodeepy: anything new?15:02
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deepykerio: not yet, at work atm15:06
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dump_01Hi ppl! Request to porters: please port this application to maemo, it is bash script that uses gpg2, git and tree programs to manage passwords localy and remotely.15:20
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dump_01It works with a directory containing encripted data files. also syncronisation to remote server can be done with git. Very usefull15:21
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keriodump_01: hmm15:23
keriodump_01: have you tried... installing it?15:23
dump_01kerio: no but i have no dough i can do it15:24
kerioi mean, are the dependencies in the repos already?15:24
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dump_01kerio: not sure15:25
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dump_01dependencies are (as i can see): git(core), gpg2 and tree15:26
keriogit-core is there, gnupg is at 1.4.615:26
keriotree is ok15:26
keriothere's no pwgen and no xclip15:27
dump_01xclip is an option15:28
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dump_01kerio: is it possible as for you?15:36
keriodump_01: not with the deb, sadly15:38
keriounmet deps15:38
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dump_01strings /dev/urandom | grep -o ':alnum:' | head -n 30 | tr -d '\n'; echo15:45
dump_01may be we can replce pwgen with something else? even with `openssl rand -base64 8`15:45
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keriofun fact: a 7zipped full mame romset for mame 0.147 weighs 28GB16:32
kerioand 28gb fits in a n90016:32
keriosadly, the CHDs weigh around 250gb, so those won't fit16:33
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keriois there a way to get PAN working properly on the n900?17:54
keriohaving to stand up and *walk* to the shelf with the n900 to turn its wifi on is psychologically painful D:17:55
Skrykeeps you fit17:58
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keriohrmpf, maemo-pan has broken dependencies18:02
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kerioand pc-connectivity-manager is awfuò18:12
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kerioaaaaand it apparently fucked with my bluetoothd and now it's a "Computer" instead of being a "Smartphone"18:16
keriooh well18:16
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keriomeh, i'm restoring dat shit18:21
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PaliHi, 0xFFFF 0.5 was released18:40
freemangordonPali: why do you rewrite libbmeipc once again?18:41
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freemangordonwhat's wrong with my source?18:42
Palifreemangordon, problem was that I needed to add more (old) header files18:42
freemangordonadd where?18:42
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freemangordonit compiles ok18:42
freemangordonand works ok18:42
Paliyes, but compilation of some old code (dsme) not working18:42
Paliand why using pipes?18:43
keriohi Pali!18:43
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freemangordonPali: what do you suggest?18:44
Palisimple array18:44
Palior one struct18:44
freemangordondid you look at how dsme-thermalobject calls libbmeipc18:44
keriowhoops, wrong window18:44
Paliall communication with bme is: send message, read status, read message18:45
PaliI looked more at bme protocol18:45
freemangordonPali: I think you got it wring18:45
freemangordonpipes are not to communicate with BME18:45
Paliyes, it is used for read write in app18:45
Palibut we do not need it18:45
freemangordonand we MUST keep that18:46
freemangordonbecause otherwise we have to dig through all of the maemo code18:46
Palione union of return message is enought18:46
freemangordon(part of it is not FOSS)18:46
Paliall application which using libbmeipc in maemo using bme protocol18:46
freemangordonPali: wrong, dsme-thermalobject-surface sets up gio listener18:47
freemangordonand waits for data on that handle (returned from libbmeipc)18:47
Paliok, I will look at it again18:47
freemangordonit is async communicatio18:48
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freemangordonPali: look at oroginal code, function connect_bme()18:50
PaliI see now what you mean18:51
PaliI will fix it18:51
Paliso pipes are really needed18:51
freemangordonfix what, code is already there, just add damn missing defines18:51
PaliI will merge your code with my18:51
freemangordonthats better :)18:51
freemangordonjust use my code, and add those headers you think that are missing18:52
freemangordonBTW what is missing?18:52
Paliok, I also implemented cookie read/write18:52
Pali(no idea if this is used, by libbmeipc export it)18:52
freemangordonok, but we don't need that18:52
freemangordonnoone uses it18:52
Paliwhat using pulseaudio?18:53
freemangordonPali: trust me on that and use my code18:53
freemangordonit spits an error if unimplemented function is called18:53
freemangordonPA uses only temperature18:53
freemangordoncoocies are used by hald-addon-bme :P18:53
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freemangordonPali: which defines are missing?18:54
Palisee git log18:54
PaliI do not remember now18:55
Palibtw, why dsme (not dsme-theramal...) depends on libbmeipc?
Palimy patched libbmeipc:
Palithere are 2 branches: master - fixed original nokia code which match n900 bme communication, replacement branch - without bme18:56
freemangordonPali: beside debian/control depends, does it actually call libbmeipc?18:57
freemangordondsme that is18:57
Paliok, so only debian/control has bme line?18:57
freemangordondon't know, you tell me. You tried to compile it, ain't?18:57
PaliI tried to compile *my* program which using bme library18:58
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Paliand also dsme-theramal-*18:58
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freemangordonPali: but we already agreed we don't need dsme-thermal recompiled18:59
freemangordonas interface is not changed18:59
Palimy first attempt was to compile program for raw/kelvin temperature table18:59
freemangordonsee, my code is drop-in replacement (libbmeipc), it needs just to read the real temperature19:00
Paliand for this I needed to modify original released nokia bmeipc headers19:00
freemangordonthats it19:00
freemangordonif we need some missing defines in the future, we can easily make -dev package and add the headers19:00
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freemangordonthough I think I have all BME defines in libbmeipc19:01
PaliI mean that I needed something which can compile that program for temperature table (so this was reason why I modified nokia libbme code)19:01
freemangordonaah, ok19:01
freemangordonso, now what :D ?19:02
freemangordondo you want to add that missing temp reading?19:02
Paliyes, I will add it19:02
freemangordonas right now I am trying to find why VKB renderer has a bug19:02
freemangordon(OSS replacement)19:03
PaliWTF is testserver?
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Paliwhere it is used?19:03
Paliit depends on libbmeipc too19:03
freemangordonBME replacement in SB AIUI19:05
freemangordoni.e. fake BME19:05
freemangordonPali: I am back to debugging VKB, ping me if I can help with anything19:06
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Paliok, I will at libbmeipc in next days... no time now19:07
keriofreemangordon: is there a way to make the VKB only appear in portrait and not in landscape?19:09
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dump_01kerio: what if someone can port pwgen? it's a perl script, i think it is possible20:52
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keriodump_01: you can probably install the .deb for that too20:53
dump_01kerio: yes, so whats the problem we face to port password-store? dependencies is not so big deal as i can see20:54
kerioagain, there's nothing to port20:55
dump_01just download, place somewhere and correct paths to dependencies in script?20:56
dump_01hm, will try20:56
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keriodeepy: did you fix your phone?22:08
deepykerio: I didn't dare to open it22:09
deepydoes that drain the battery?22:09
deepythe keyboard part22:10
keriodeepy: well, it still turns off everything when you lock the screen22:10
keriobut you lose the open-slider-to-unlock22:10
keriobtw, protip: double"click" the power button to lock22:10
deepyI learned that one by accident :)22:11
kerioand they say maemo isn't intuitive22:11
deepyhngg, server changed IP again22:11
deepywhy does it do that22:11
keriowhich server?22:11
deepyThe one I was supposed to do maintenance on22:12
deepyGotta fix a foolproof vpn22:12 it's not really foolproof22:12
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deepyNo I mean I gotta fix one so I can reach it in the future :P22:12
kerioyay, cpu at 107°C22:14
kerioand os x isn't even making the fans spin as hard as they can, lol22:14
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keriodeepy: apart from the kbd slider issue?22:24
keriodo you like the n900?22:24
kerioit's kind of a weird toy to recommend to people22:24
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deepythe moment I get stuff into dosbox I'm gonna start forgetting my other phone22:25
kerioyou could've gotten a laptop with DOS on it for much cheaper22:25
deepyBut that doesn't make phone calls22:25
keriodeepy: mind you, the n900 only has a 600mhz CPU22:25
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