IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-02-26

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definityhey, any abody around who has a N90000:04
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arvutmooogadooogadooooo!00:08
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arvutphysics is so much fun00:08
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definityhello?00:46
NIN101definity: yes, plenty of us, just ask your question, and somebody might help.00:46
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definityThx, well i have a N900 i am using the inbuilt Media player to connect to my windows media player which i have manedged to get working i can browes through the movies and songs but when ever i go to play one it just constantly says connecting and never connect, any ideas on how to fix the problem?00:48
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dimirSicelo, merlin1991: oh man, it went smoothly! I've flashed rootfs and all my settings are there! Thanks!00:59
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DocScrutinizerdimir: major caveat is "CHARGE YOUR BATTERY!!"01:06
dimirHaha, not all the settings it seems. E. g. my mail accounts are gone. But that's not a problem. :-)01:07
dimirDocScrutinizer: I see. :-)01:07
DocScrutinizerdimir: and right, you shouldn't flash eMMC01:08
dimiryep.01:08
DocScrutinizeractually your mail accounts shouldn't vanish either01:09
DocScrutinizerdunno why they would be affected01:09
dimirI have a backup. :-)01:09
dimirMaybe I should try to restore. :-P01:09
dimirI wasn't using a default theme either.01:10
DocScrutinizerdimir: btw while you're at it, it's a optimal moment to consider jumping onto the CSSU train right now01:10
dimir~cssu01:10
infobot[cssu] http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU01:10
DocScrutinizerI'd suggest CSSU-Stable01:10
dimirI see.01:11
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dimirThanks for the info, will do!01:11
DocScrutinizer:-)01:11
dimirI wonder if I should check if GSM module works. :-D01:11
DocScrutinizerhmm, why shouldn't it?01:12
dimirBTW, were there any improvements on the GSM module in 1.3 regarding to 1.2?01:12
DocScrutinizerwell, yeah there were some incidents01:12
DocScrutinizernope01:12
dimirah, darn.01:12
dimirSo it's still sucky. :-D01:12
DocScrutinizerbut some users flashed - presumably - US version while GSM been on international version before, or vice versa. And that in rare cases caused problems01:13
DocScrutinizerwhat's sucky with your GSM?01:14
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DocScrutinizerit works mostly fine here01:14
DocScrutinizerin USA the problem is more fundamental with the poor GSM coverage01:14
DocScrutinizerand the weird non-standard bands used for 3G01:15
DocScrutinizerand probably a lot of other stuff in some of the 976some carriers that all invent their own flavour of GSM/UMTS network covering an area as large as 30km^201:16
DocScrutinizerUSA is 3rd world regarding wireless01:17
DocScrutinizersorry dudes, you have to admit I'm right ;-P01:17
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dimirI'm in Eastern Europe. :-) The sucky bit is signal. It's weaker than any other devices wherever I go.01:17
Meizirkkihttp://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/memes-advice-dash-cooler.jpg01:22
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DocScrutinizerdimir: weaker by what metrics?01:25
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DocScrutinizerdimir: do your calls abort and/or you're not reachable while other devices work flawlessly *on _same_ band* in same location?01:26
dimirDocScrutinizer: E. g. we go out of city, I have no signal, my friends have 30-40 %.01:26
DocScrutinizerpercent gauges are a lie01:26
dimirDocScrutinizer: hehe ye but I can not make a call.01:26
dimirDocScrutinizer: and if they call me I'm out of reach. Others with same provider can call/receive calls.01:27
DocScrutinizerwhile your friend can make a call *using* *same* *carrier*?01:27
dimiryep.01:27
dimirFor sure.01:27
DocScrutinizernow that's strange01:27
dimirI'm now thinking maybe it's the device.01:28
dimirBut let's see how it goes with pr1.3. :-)01:28
DocScrutinizerI never found N900 has a particularly poor sensitivity01:28
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DocScrutinizerwon't change anything01:28
dimirOh man, I have enabled CSSU-Stable and no updates? :-P01:28
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DocScrutinizersensitivity didn't change with any of the modem FW updates01:28
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dimirI see.01:29
DocScrutinizersome devices have hw problems with modem sensitivity or keeping connection/registration though01:29
dimirNow that might be it.01:30
DocScrutinizermost notorious case: SIM not detected01:30
dimirHaven't had problems with that.01:30
DocScrutinizerbut of course there are other problems possible01:30
dimirWell, it's rare case, I loose connection only if I'm in certain places where the signal is weak.01:31
DocScrutinizerlike poor sensitivity, due to either solderpoints, or chip deterioration, or simply a poor contact to antenna01:31
dimirSo I can live with that. :-)01:31
DocScrutinizerwhat's your issue with CSSU now?01:32
dimirDocScrutinizer: no issues, I have enabled it but I thought there will be updates. :-)01:32
dimirOr wait...01:32
dimirIt's an app I should run.01:33
DocScrutinizerhmm, I dunno if there are updates beyond what already gets installed when you install CSSU01:33
dimirOMG.01:33
dimirI ran it now.01:33
DocScrutinizerplease read that web page about CSSU carefully01:33
dimirDocScrutinizer: OK. :-)01:33
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dimirwow, lots of updates now!01:34
dimirlibqtm stuff01:34
dimir27.7 MB01:34
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dimirIncluding CSSU stable update #2.101:36
dimirHmm, reading that page is useful. :-D01:37
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dimirDocScrutinizer: is it OK to use CSSU + extras and + extras-devel?02:26
DocScrutinizeryes02:26
DocScrutinizersure02:27
merlin1991thought extras + extras-devel makes no sense02:28
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dimiroh, right02:43
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: you're sure about that?03:22
merlin1991100% sure03:22
DocScrutinizerI'dthink you could find packages in extras that are not available thru extras-devel03:23
merlin1991that have to be very very rare cases03:23
merlin1991since the promotion proces is upload-> devel, dev promote -> testing, voting -> extras03:23
DocScrutinizerwell, all those cases where Nokia added stuff to extras, either directly or on behalf of 2nd source03:24
* merlin1991 doesn't know a single package that's missing in devel though03:24
merlin1991I've been running with -devel only ever since I enabled -devel03:24
merlin1991and so far found no package that was missing03:25
DocScrutinizerhow would you find missing packages - I'd say the most significant property of a missing pkg is that you can't find it03:25
merlin1991well if you expect something to be there but it isn't then you've found a missing package :D03:26
merlin1991thought you're right, that I possibly have missed packages where I didn't find the info outside apt-cache03:26
merlin1991s/thought/though03:27
merlin1991but in theory -devel should be a superset of extras03:27
DocScrutinizerI'd bet all the pkg initially in extras were never in extras-devel, as Nokia placed them directly in extras03:28
DocScrutinizeryou'd expect apps like e.g. angrybords in devel?03:29
DocScrutinizerbirds even03:29
merlin1991isn't it in ovi?03:29
merlin1991and not in extras?03:29
DocScrutinizerwell, whatever03:29
DocScrutinizerthere's been quite a number of stuff in extras that probably didn't come thru devel03:29
merlin1991quit possibly, though so far everything I needed has been in -devel as well03:30
DocScrutinizerafaik extras existed even before devel was in place03:30
merlin1991would be interesting to disect that a lil03:30
merlin1991should be possible with apt *somehow*03:30
DocScrutinizerand whatever, the recommended modus operandi is to enable devel only to install a particular pkg, then better immediately disable it again03:31
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DocScrutinizerunless you want to find constant breakage of all your apps by bleeding edge "updates" that get bugfixed just a day later... or not.03:32
merlin1991on the other hand the recommended modus operandi is to enable -devel only "if you know what you do"03:32
merlin1991which implies enough knowledge to run -devel 24/7 imo03:32
merlin1991and I also heaven't experienced said breakage of everything yet03:33
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DocScrutinizerthe problem is knowing what you do will not cure the impact of others contributing to devel while they don't know exactly what they do03:33
merlin1991that's the reason why I don't blindly upgrade packages03:33
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merlin1991I actually check what changes are included in an upgrade before I do so03:34
DocScrutinizerbtw with devel enabled, HAM takes like 6min30 to come up with a list03:34
merlin1991not for me, but I have nothing else but devel cssu and nokia ssu enabled03:34
merlin1991no testing, ovi, extras or 3rd party repos here03:35
DocScrutinizerhmm yeah, testing is actually completely useless when you got devel enabled03:36
DocScrutinizerovi? what ovi?03:36
merlin1991that silly repo that is there by default03:36
DocScrutinizerhmm, I never had that I guess03:37
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DocScrutinizerI also doubt it's there "by default" - raher it's probably added to catalog list whenever you install sth from ovi03:38
merlin1991oh it is there03:38
merlin1991check /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues (or similar, no n900 here atm) it is there as "system catalouge" without even an url because it's inbuilt to ham03:39
DocScrutinizermaybe then I just puked a little, then selected "delete"03:39
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DocScrutinizerand can'T recall anymore that I did03:39
merlin1991which you could have only done by editing the file because the delete button is disabled in ham for the "system" repos03:39
* DocScrutinizer shrugs03:40
DocScrutinizerNFC03:40
merlin1991btw what do you think about including harmattan qml components in the cssu to ease backporting of harm apps?03:41
DocScrutinizeractually I rarely ever care about those friggin catalogs anymore03:41
DocScrutinizerUERGH, there it is ... "OVI"03:42
merlin1991:D03:43
DocScrutinizera nice example of freudian selective perception03:43
DocScrutinizerI'm rather amazed you got no developer tools repo in your list03:44
DocScrutinizerI even have a SDK repo here, though deactivated03:45
merlin1991I've got my scratchbox for that stuff ;)03:45
DocScrutinizerhmm03:45
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DocScrutinizerhmm I thought it will take a little until I feel like answering your question regarding QML. I didn't expect it to take that long though - I still dunno what's my notion regarding that04:09
DocScrutinizermaybe my first approach would be to ask if there's any such app that exists in HARM but not in fremantle, that's worth backporting at all04:10
DocScrutinizerand if so, I'm not sure I wanna know about it, as I probably had to frown about it04:11
DocScrutinizerthe original idea was we get a concept working the other way round04:12
DocScrutinizerand I hate QML04:13
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DocScrutinizerand tbh I doubt porting apps from HARM to fremantle is a simple task, esp since HARM is so incredibly FUBAR when it comes to arbitrary standard *nix way to do random things04:14
DocScrutinizerbetter don't ask me. In the end somebody will do it anyway, so why should I suffer a headache to find out if I hate it deeply or just a little04:17
DocScrutinizerif however that means we need to include that crap to CSSU, I really start to feel pain about it all04:19
DocScrutinizerit would break compatibility of CSSU, in a way that makes CSSU a fork of stock PR rather than a update that fixes things04:21
DocScrutinizerthere would be apps that depend on CSSU, which is definitely not a good thing04:21
DocScrutinizerat least when those apps are not tools for CSSU but actually any random app that isn't related to CSSU other than it depends on functions that are not in stock04:23
DocScrutinizerhere should those apps live? which repo?04:24
DocScrutinizerwould CSSU team provide a matching SDK for this new class of apps?04:24
DocScrutinizernonononono04:24
DocScrutinizerno good idea04:24
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DocScrutinizeronce we got apps that depend on CSSU, next step will be tweaks to standard Hildon GUI to mazch any special need of those QML apps04:26
DocScrutinizerand why exactly are we doing that now? to *ease* the backporting? no way!04:27
DocScrutinizerif somebody wants to backport his app, he wants to use Hildon, not QML04:28
DocScrutinizermaybe somebody wants to come up with a QMLRunner wrapper app that works like a browser for QML apps, like a shell04:30
DocScrutinizerthis QMLRunner app can ship via usual extras-* deployment chain, no need for any special treatment in CSSU04:31
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Sazpaimoncan something be done about text formatting on TMO05:01
Sazpaimonas in, turning it off05:01
Sazpaimonim getting a little tired of people randomly coloring/bolding/whatevering words05:02
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Natanaieldoes N900 have MBR?05:34
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psycho_oreossuppose it would have considering it has TOC05:35
ShadowJKSazpaimon; I'd be glad if the text would be more than third of display wide :P05:43
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SazpaimonShadowJK, one step at a time05:52
Sazpaimonbut i think asking for any changes to TMO will largely get ignored05:53
SazpaimonI think the moderators have basically accepted the trolls and idiots as commonplace now\05:53
ShadowJKyes, last time I complained about layout the guy ragequit irc :05:54
ShadowJK:P05:54
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dimirInteresting, after upgrade from pr1.2 to pr1.3 the GPS module stopped working. When I open e. g. Maps the icon in status bar is blinking all the time and the app says "Looking for GPS..." . Rebooting the device does not help. Is it a known issue?10:43
dimirHeh, read on the forum, changing supl.nokia.com to supl.google.com fixed it. :-)10:49
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freemangordonAnyone knowledgable in GL/GLES? I am trying to apply a scissor, but for the life of mine cannot grok how to calculate the coordinates. Anyone can help?14:13
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griIs there a more complete qt-components theme than qt-components-base-theme and qt-components-blanco-theme for maemo5? There are so many images missing in these ...14:27
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DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: ShadowJK: I'm rather happy with "-- Classic Light" theme (bottom left)15:09
ShadowJKiirc it has gigantic fonts and issues with images?15:10
DocScrutinizerno issues here15:10
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ShadowJKat one point it made images small and fonts huge15:11
DocScrutinizermight have been like that for a few days, some 2 years ago, yes15:14
DocScrutinizerI'm using it all the time with Konqueror and it made other themes unbearable15:15
ShadowJKoh im thinking about minimalist light15:16
ShadowJK... which gives me a very long empty page15:16
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ShadowJK... until I tap "menu", at which point the thread also appeared15:17
* ShadowJK is suddenly reminded of why he hates web forums :P15:18
Raimu-XHate the web forums? Try newspaper forums or comment threads. Those things will skewer your soul.15:21
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ShadowJKI'm not refering to contents :P15:27
ShadowJKmore to the bugs15:28
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Paliping freemangordon15:30
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Raimu-XShadowJK: Strong man, you are. :)15:34
Raimu-XI just feel like exploding upon the contents.15:34
ShadowJKI don't really get that far15:34
ShadowJKfirst the UI latency makes me feel like exploding, then the interface bugs :P15:35
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DocScrutinizerstrong men you are - I can't read tmo on a regular basis anymore15:36
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Raimu-XI just read the few threads I'm really, really interested in.15:37
DocScrutinizerI don't even try to15:37
Raimu-XShadowJK :D15:37
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DocScrutinizerI had a lag of like 2 weeks to answer Q in H-E-N thread adressed at me more or less15:38
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Palifreemangordon, where you have your kernel-power builds?16:55
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guylhem_hello18:20
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guylhem_I read that when fixing the n900 one should order new screws. on klc.fi I'll spend 12 euros in shipping for 4 euros in screws. Anybody got some he's  not using and willing to sell?18:24
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, is it possible to send a fax over a cellular modem?\18:42
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DocScrutinizerin theory yes18:42
MohammadAGguylhem_, you don't REALLY need new screws18:42
MohammadAGunless you break the old ones18:42
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, in practice?18:43
guylhem_I just wanted to be carefull - reading the documentation before making the surgery :-)18:43
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MohammadAGany device, not one as /open/ as the N90018:43
DocScrutinizernew screws highly recommended, as the old ones, when breaking on tightening them, will give you massive headache18:43
MohammadAGguylhem_, use a correct screwdriver and you'll hopefully be fine18:43
guylhem_MohammadAG: thanks!18:43
MohammadAGoh and that, don't tighten them a lot18:43
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: in practice virtually no modem, and no carrier, sipports that mode18:43
MohammadAGwhen they stop turning with a light turn don't try to tighten them more18:44
MohammadAGor they'll break18:44
MohammadAGnone of the screws broke for me though18:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, oh :/18:44
DocScrutinizerAT+FCLASS=?18:44
DocScrutinizeror something like that18:44
MohammadAGproblem is the document has my visa number, otherwise I would've asked someone to help18:45
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guylhem_BTW how can I retrieve the sourcecode of a published app I'd like to tweak? facebrick is on http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/facebrick/0.6/18:46
MohammadAGfacebrick is long gone afaik18:46
MohammadAGin terms of working18:46
guylhem_yes, but apparently it's just a problem of auth18:47
guylhem_and I've read on fmobi site than a manual auth by visiting https://www.facebook.com/dialog/oauth?client_id=(…) could be used18:48
MohammadAGguylhem_, for your original question, https://github.com/brik/facebrick18:48
guylhem_thanks18:48
MohammadAGguylhem_, but why not use sociality or fmobi?18:48
guylhem_a very simple widget similar to the rss reader would have my preference18:49
MohammadAGoh, never got to that :/18:49
DocScrutinizerguylhem_: (screws) go to your next local repair shop for small gadgets and ask them to sell you the screws. Will be more convenient and more cheap than ordering them via the internets18:49
DocScrutinizerthough, OTOH, you probably can't be sure they sell you unused fresh screws either18:50
guylhem_:0(18:50
guylhem_ç18:50
guylhem_I guess U18:50
guylhem_oops keyboard problems.18:50
guylhem_I guess I will try to be carefull with mine. shouldn't be more complex than a good old zaurus to open18:51
DocScrutinizerbtw 4 bucks for like 6 screws - you'd think this price already includes premium shipping to any location in this solar system18:51
DocScrutinizerguylhem_: yup, I also reused the old screws18:52
DocScrutinizerjust use the right tools, and be gentle18:52
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DocScrutinizerclose inspection of the old screws using a magnifying glass, won't hurt though, prior to driving them in again18:53
DocScrutinizeras mentioned above: IF one of the screws breaks and half of it sticks in N900 body, you got a serious problem18:54
DocScrutinizermost likely will mean to get a new case18:55
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guylhem_DocScrutinizer: hopefully that won't happen, but I've purchased a set of spare plastic parts :-)19:00
DocScrutinizergood luck! btw what are you planning to do inside the device?19:01
guylhem_preventive care of the USB port + replacing the digitizer (got scratches).19:02
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: there are a zillion services in internet, that allow upload of a jpg or png or whatever and send that out via plain old FAX19:02
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, all my visa details including my signature are on it19:03
DocScrutinizerguylhem_: \o/19:03
guylhem_MohammadAG: where do you want to send it?19:03
MohammadAGI'm not uploading it to a random service19:03
MohammadAGguylhem_, Apple19:03
guylhem_which country? US?19:03
MohammadAG+1 so yeah19:03
guylhem_I can give you the passwd of my fax service by email so you can send the file19:03
MohammadAGvisa number ;/19:04
MohammadAG:/*19:04
guylhem_or we can arrange some vnc so I type the number, you select the file to send and then remove it afterwards19:05
DocScrutinizerYAY19:05
DocScrutinizerprobably the easiest way to solve the problem is your office supply shop next corner. They usually send fax for you, or you even may use the machine yourself and they just bill you by nr of pages afterwards19:06
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i'm using faxtastic19:08
DocScrutinizerpost office tends to offer same service19:08
jacekowskithing about them is you can recieve faxes for free19:08
jacekowskiand you get fax number for free19:08
guylhem_If you're in a hurry email guylhem at guylhem dot net and I'll send you the url and passwd. alternatively if you feel like trusting me, do a google search, a whois on my domain etc19:08
guylhem_regarding facebrick IIRC the auth is not being processed but according to http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=897259&postcount=735 people who already auth' should be fine. I have never played with facebook before but if the problem is just making an initial auth a separate app to do that could easily fix facebrick. Or am I mistaken?19:09
jacekowskiMohammadAG: n900 can't send faxes19:09
jacekowskiMohammadAG: older phones could send faxes without problems19:10
DocScrutinizerWe already checked that :-)19:10
DocScrutinizer(older phones) only if your carrier allows19:10
jacekowskin900 can't do CSD whatsoever19:10
MohammadAGguylhem_, yes, it should19:10
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: as long as your phone can do CSD you should be fine19:10
MohammadAGif facebrick uses the oauth method19:10
MohammadAGjacekowski, iPhone?19:11
jacekowskino19:11
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: not really19:11
jacekowskiit has to provide normal AT interface to PC19:11
guylhem_MohammadAG: if you have a VOIP account you can try a T38 protocol client to send it19:11
MohammadAGI can wait I gues19:11
MohammadAGs19:11
jacekowskiand then it's just like any CSD connection19:11
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: fax is a different distinct service flag on GSM OTA datagrams19:11
MohammadAGor there should be a fax on campus19:11
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: yeah if it goes to phone19:11
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: if you are making fax call from phone how network is supposed to tell a difference between modem and fax machine on remote end19:12
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jacekowskithey can block CSD to all numbers, but there is no way to tell fax apart from a modem19:12
jacekowskinot without doing DPI19:12
DocScrutinizersimple as that: you're sending DATA over the air, and that data is encoded via a fax codec in carrier's gateway for fax CSD, and via a modem V32 or whatnot codec for modem data CSD19:13
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: fax is same thing as modem19:14
guylhem_c19:14
guylhem_19:14
DocScrutinizernope, definitely not19:14
guylhem_jacekowski: codec is different19:14
DocScrutinizermost modems also support fax, yeah19:14
jacekowski"modern" modems  can do v92 and other stuff19:14
DocScrutinizerbut not for the carrier's gateway 'modem'19:14
jacekowskibut faxes have some common codes to normal modem transmission19:15
DocScrutinizermeh19:15
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jacekowskihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fax#Data_transmission_rate19:16
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jacekowskihere is the list of codecs19:16
DocScrutinizer:shrug:19:16
jacekowskiV.34 and v.34bis was very common codec for normal modem stuff19:17
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DocScrutinizeryou CAN NOT connect to a fax when all you got is a modem doing V.3219:20
DocScrutinizerand that's what your carrier usually will offer19:20
DocScrutinizernot even plain V.34 will connect to a fax for all I know19:20
jacekowskiwell, i've sent many faxes from mobiles19:21
DocScrutinizerwhich is what carrier will offer for data codec on HSCSD19:21
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DocScrutinizersure, ask if your mobile supports fax (AT+FCLASS) and you'll see why19:21
DocScrutinizerand how19:22
jacekowskinot with my current phone19:22
DocScrutinizerfor CSD you got 3 service classes: voice, data, fax19:22
jacekowskibut with my old nokia 623019:22
jacekowskino problems19:22
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DocScrutinizercarrier selects codec depending on service class19:22
jacekowskii'm not sure if i can get to at interface of my phone19:23
guylhem_apparently from facebrick code oauth is used, but if I try to do just like fmobi with a log url19:23
guylhem_n19:23
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: codecs are negotiated19:23
jacekowskiso you can call very old modems and stuff19:23
guylhem_like in http://pastebin.ca/2121778 it doesn't work. Maybe the clientid # 110513258970087 has been deprecated by facebrick authors.19:23
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: your carrier won't negotiate a voice codec for a data service class CSD connection, and they won't offer fax codecs on voice or data, and they will offer fax only on fax CSD19:24
jacekowskithose are the same codecs19:25
jacekowskion reasonably new fax machines19:25
DocScrutinizerthat's BS19:25
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DocScrutinizereven class 3 doesn't know about mere data fax protocols19:25
jacekowskii'll be home tomorrow19:26
DocScrutinizerclass4 maybe19:26
jacekowskiand i'll test it with N9519:26
DocScrutinizeryou can even send color faxes via class419:26
jacekowskilook, i've sent faxes over mobile network19:26
DocScrutinizerbut class4 fax machines are still rare, and I doubt your fax program you use to send the fax via your mobile will always support class4 always19:27
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: so WHAT?? of course you can send fax CSD as long as your proviuder allows, given your mobile supports service class "fax"19:28
DocScrutinizerwhich new mobile devices don't19:28
DocScrutinizerusually19:28
DocScrutinizeryou however CAN NOT send fax via service class "data"19:28
jacekowskiso, how does phone know when to switch to data and when to switch to fax19:29
DocScrutinizerplease ask your mobile with command AT+FCLASS?19:29
jacekowskiif all it's getting is ATDT number19:29
DocScrutinizernot at all19:29
jacekowskiinit commands were same19:29
DocScrutinizeryou have to initiate a fax call on your AT interface to mobile19:30
jacekowskiwell, i didn't19:30
jacekowskiand it worked19:30
DocScrutinizerthat's really rare - there's a way carrier and MT can allow to switch service class on the fly19:30
DocScrutinizerI've never seen any carrier support this19:30
DocScrutinizerwell, let's agree on this: if MohammadAG has no mobile supporting (HS)CSD, he's screwed for sending fax19:32
jacekowskionly thing was that if you wanted to recieve a fax you needed a separate number for that19:32
DocScrutinizerN900 does not support CSD19:32
jacekowskibecause that's how they could tell apart between incoming fax call and incoming voice call19:32
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yes obviously, as then there's no way to negotiate service class prior to establishing connection19:33
jacekowskibut sending faxes was free for all ( well, they've charged arm and leg for CSD connections )19:33
DocScrutinizerso the only GSM conforming way to tell your MT "hey, this is a FAX, please don't try to talk to it!" is to send INVITE to a dedicated fax number19:34
DocScrutinizerbtw same applies for incoming data CSD calls19:35
DocScrutinizera MT per default only offers service class 'voice'19:35
DocScrutinizerfor inbound19:35
DocScrutinizerand nowadays most phones don't even offer a complete (or none at all) AT-interface19:36
DocScrutinizerand no CSD19:37
DocScrutinizerwhich is a pity, as data CSD was the only viable way to do encrypted voice calls over GSM19:37
guylhem_apparently facebrick source pulled from git is different from the binary. there's a reference to http://w00t.dereferenced.net/facebook in the binary that is not working when you visit the page. maybe it was a gateway?19:38
DocScrutinizerbut in times of VoIP, who would mention when his call gets routed via internet, even when it's a crypted call, so we have to resort to UMTS/3G data services for that19:39
DocScrutinizers/mention/mind/19:39
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: but in times of VoIP, who would mind when his call gets routed via internet, even when it's a crypted call, so we have to resort to UMTS/3G data services for that19:39
DocScrutinizerCSD isn't fashinable anymore :-/19:40
guylhem_ok it was a session proxy that got disabled19:41
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jacekowskitalking about voip, i need to find some way of working around my carriers firewall19:54
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DocScrutinizerfor sth completely different: recent discussions about battery standby time and power consumption made me put my daily N900 on the desk without the usual charging plug 24h ago. Services running: 2G voice, WLAN with power savingsa mode max/10mW, IRC (xchat) running on 7 freenode chan, no display. Now after 24h battery is at 55% remaining charge19:56
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: try using a different port than 506019:57
DocScrutinizermost VoIP providers don't care much about the port19:57
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DocScrutinizerand chances are your carrier only has a block on that particular port19:58
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DocScrutinizerbut if nothing else helps, you might have to resort to VPN or sth19:59
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DocScrutinizertunneling thru DNS to your private exposed server20:00
DocScrutinizermaybe even via ssh20:01
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jacekowskiwell, tunneling is going to increase RTT20:20
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Siceloi missed the fax 'debate' .. interesting. makes me want to get my Nokia 9300i back for fresh experiments. I tried all i could to get the fax to work. maybe i'll try the N-Gage as a fax modem21:15
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dos1DocScrutinizer: ping21:28
guylhem_how can I get into target mode (power+u) with backup menu installed?21:43
Sicelocan you perhaps rephrase? :)21:47
Sicelomaybe you mean booting with keyboard open :/21:48
Siceloor, if you want to flash.. that should work irregardless of backupmenu21:48
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guylhem_nope - got to half open the keyboard. just succeeded after seeing the pic on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6177221:49
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Siceloi don't know what it is you're doing.. but regular flashing works for me with backupmenu (at least i load debian kernels using flasher without any quirks)21:51
guylhem_didn't work for me but now it's flashing21:52
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robbiethe1stAlso, mind... I think I've pointed out many times... There's no need to press 'u' when flashing. Just make sure the flasher's 'waiting' before you plug in the USB cable.21:58
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DocScrutinizerdos1: pong22:13
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dos1DocScrutinizer: sooo... how does broken USB port in N900 look like? ;/22:18
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DocScrutinizerwell, looks like... a hole in the plastic case with no or a wobbly USB receptacle behind it22:20
kerioDocScrutinizer: well, not necessarily22:20
DocScrutinizeror do you ask how to diagnose the problem?22:20
keriomy broken USB port looks normal22:20
DocScrutinizerkerio: sure, I know22:20
DocScrutinizerkerio: honestly, dos1 's question been a bit fuzzy22:21
dos1well, mine stopped responding to anything22:22
DocScrutinizera bit like "what's the best of Texas?"22:22
kerioaustin22:22
kerioalthough it's not really the best, it's the least worse22:23
dos1and is looking just fine22:23
keriodos1: if the USB port doesn't work, it's broken22:23
keriothat's like the definition22:23
kerioyou can probably get some kind of connection if you kinda force the plug up or down22:23
keriowhich is good, because it means that it's not totally broken inside22:23
dos1tried with no luck ;(22:24
DocScrutinizerdos1: then you should probably check the VBUS sysnode (or use multimeter and a cut-up USB cable to check conducting connection from VBUS to the USB5V+ testpad in battery bay) and also probe both D+ and D- for contact to the dual testpads in battery bay22:24
dos1removed battery and played a bit with it - orange LED blinked few times for some fractions of second, but it was very hard to repeat22:25
DocScrutinizerdon't try to 'force plug' or do other weird potentially dangerous things please22:25
kerioyou'd also get some kind of reaction if you hit your n900's screen with a hammer!22:26
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maybeHerethat's completely recoverable btw22:26
maybeHerejust exchange the screen22:26
keriomaybeHere: not if you hit hard enough22:26
DocScrutinizerget a multimeter and check resistance between the cable ends and the testpoints!22:27
maybeHere(although i didn't hammer mine, i just sequeezed it to death because of some rage inducing email)22:27
keriomaybeHere: haha what22:27
maybeHere(and the email wasn't even from nokia)22:27
shanttuhi. does n900 still have problems with some sd cards?22:27
DocScrutinizerdos1: please check:22:28
DocScrutinizer~usbfix22:28
infobotusbfix is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)22:28
kerioshanttu: last i heard SD cards still don't fit anywhere22:28
DocScrutinizerit has links to all the info you need22:28
keriothere's a microSD slot though, perhaps you could use that!22:28
shanttukerio, ok =) microsd then22:28
maybeHerekerio: since that incident i don't even have any reason to be in this channel anymore as i replaced my n900 with a galaxy s2 (but i gave the repaired n900 to some friend who could use it far better than me)22:28
* DocScrutinizer ponders /mode +q kerio22:29
kerioDocScrutinizer: noooo :(22:29
maybeHerewhat i really really really miss is the alarm clock function even when the phone is switched off, it's kind of ridiculous android doesn't support this22:30
kerioswitching off your phone is lame anyway22:30
DocScrutinizermaybeHere: so please don't jump in to a serious chat where somebody has *real* problems and hopes for help. This is no stand up comedian chan22:30
maybeHeresorry.22:30
kerioshanttu: anyway, i never heard of problems with µSDs22:31
keriodo you have one that doesn't work?22:31
dos1DocScrutinizer: thanks22:31
dos1trying to check vbus sysnode now22:32
DocScrutinizerdos1: please keep me updated on any further steps you take and results you get. AIUI your device is one of those I "forwarded"? So it has no warranty :-/22:32
shanttukerio, i've read from tmo that many has had problems with them. i read adata works and have one. it gets corrupted often..but works.22:32
shanttujust wondering if there is some updated information on suitable brands and classes22:33
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DocScrutinizerdos1: (not that a waranty would be any good for. As Nokia simply swaps N900 for some sybian crap now)22:34
keriosybian?22:34
DocScrutinizererr, +m22:34
kerio:>22:34
keriowell, a sybian would be as good as a n8 as a n900 replacement22:35
kerioIE not at all22:35
DocScrutinizerthe difference is negligible22:35
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DocScrutinizerdos1: as speedevil (IIRC) has pointed out several times: also make sure it's not your cable that's defect, and check the USB receptacle optically for debris and/or bent contacts etc22:37
dos1DocScrutinizer: tried with both charger and usb cable connected to PC22:37
DocScrutinizerwhat did you expect to see? what did you get instead?22:38
DocScrutinizerI.E. what makes you think your USB is broken?22:38
dos1i expected to see charging, and - when connected to pc - to see popup window (mass storage or pc mode) on maemo22:39
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dos1nothing happened22:40
dos1tried also with phone turned off - expected it to turn on - also nothing happened22:40
DocScrutinizermight both get defeated by e.g. bme segfaulting to death, which in turn may easily be caused by that notorius unbearable bq27200.ko module22:40
dos1tried also with SHR22:40
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dos1and checking fsodeviced logs for some charging related events22:40
dos1nothing happened22:41
DocScrutinizerwell, that's a good test indeed - phone shall turn on when plugged in and VBus applied22:41
dos1vbus sysnode is always 022:41
DocScrutinizeryup22:41
DocScrutinizerconcludent22:41
DocScrutinizercheck receptacle with a magn glass and good light22:42
dos1i guess that's everything i can do from software side22:42
DocScrutinizeryes22:42
DocScrutinizerno startup and vbus sysnode always 0 means you got some hw problem22:42
guylhem_where are the applications catalog stored ? ~/22:43
DocScrutinizerdos1: also try to wag the USB receptacle a bit with a pin or toothpick or sth. It mustn't move, nada22:44
guylhem_or in gconf ?22:44
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guylhem_appmanager just "purged" all the catalogs during an update22:49
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dos1DocScrutinizer: it doesn't move22:54
DocScrutinizer:nod:22:55
DocScrutinizerinspect closely with a magnifier glass, then consider cutting a USB cable in two halves22:56
guylhem_oops a process must have died. a reboot and its fine now22:57
DocScrutinizeryou may have a mechanically induced contact/connection problem at USB receptacle as well as some electric issue (e.g. blown fuse)22:57
DocScrutinizera decent electrical test will give some valuable hints22:58
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Siceloguylhem_: HAM can take its time.. you just had to wait 'indefinitely', lol. it's happened to me a number of times ... and 10 minutes later, catalogs show22:58
guylhem_Sicelo: just after a flash that got me stressed! all I was doing was trying toinstall *fast* appmanager22:59
guylhem_die ham die22:59
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DocScrutinizerfapman no good!23:15
DocScrutinizertries to be too smart and fast23:16
guylhem_?23:16
guylhem_troll troll troll23:16
DocScrutinizerorly?`23:17
DocScrutinizeryu're sure you know what troll even means?23:17
guylhem_what exactly do you have about fam?23:17
guylhem_too smart regarding caches?23:17
DocScrutinizerwell, you'll find out the hard way, as you think you're smarter than me23:18
DocScrutinizerhave fiun, enjoy23:18
guylhem_no please tell me.23:18
DocScrutinizerasking "please tell me" to a troll? c'mon :-/23:19
guylhem_appmanager manages to crash at the very first reboot. besides utiing apt-get I see no other option23:19
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guylhem_you're teasing it's no good. tell me more23:19
DocScrutinizerpff23:19
guylhem_whatever23:20
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