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| definity | hey, any abody around who has a N900 | 00:04 |
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| arvut | mooogadooogadooooo! | 00:08 |
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| arvut | physics is so much fun | 00:08 |
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| definity | hello? | 00:46 |
| NIN101 | definity: yes, plenty of us, just ask your question, and somebody might help. | 00:46 |
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| definity | Thx, well i have a N900 i am using the inbuilt Media player to connect to my windows media player which i have manedged to get working i can browes through the movies and songs but when ever i go to play one it just constantly says connecting and never connect, any ideas on how to fix the problem? | 00:48 |
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| dimir | Sicelo, merlin1991: oh man, it went smoothly! I've flashed rootfs and all my settings are there! Thanks! | 00:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dimir: major caveat is "CHARGE YOUR BATTERY!!" | 01:06 |
| dimir | Haha, not all the settings it seems. E. g. my mail accounts are gone. But that's not a problem. :-) | 01:07 |
| dimir | DocScrutinizer: I see. :-) | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | dimir: and right, you shouldn't flash eMMC | 01:08 |
| dimir | yep. | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually your mail accounts shouldn't vanish either | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno why they would be affected | 01:09 |
| dimir | I have a backup. :-) | 01:09 |
| dimir | Maybe I should try to restore. :-P | 01:09 |
| dimir | I wasn't using a default theme either. | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | dimir: btw while you're at it, it's a optimal moment to consider jumping onto the CSSU train right now | 01:10 |
| dimir | ~cssu | 01:10 |
| infobot | [cssu] http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd suggest CSSU-Stable | 01:10 |
| dimir | I see. | 01:11 |
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| dimir | Thanks for the info, will do! | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 01:11 |
| dimir | I wonder if I should check if GSM module works. :-D | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, why shouldn't it? | 01:12 |
| dimir | BTW, were there any improvements on the GSM module in 1.3 regarding to 1.2? | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, yeah there were some incidents | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 01:12 |
| dimir | ah, darn. | 01:12 |
| dimir | So it's still sucky. :-D | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | but some users flashed - presumably - US version while GSM been on international version before, or vice versa. And that in rare cases caused problems | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's sucky with your GSM? | 01:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it works mostly fine here | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | in USA the problem is more fundamental with the poor GSM coverage | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the weird non-standard bands used for 3G | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | and probably a lot of other stuff in some of the 976some carriers that all invent their own flavour of GSM/UMTS network covering an area as large as 30km^2 | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | USA is 3rd world regarding wireless | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry dudes, you have to admit I'm right ;-P | 01:17 |
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| dimir | I'm in Eastern Europe. :-) The sucky bit is signal. It's weaker than any other devices wherever I go. | 01:17 |
| Meizirkki | http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/memes-advice-dash-cooler.jpg | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dimir: weaker by what metrics? | 01:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dimir: do your calls abort and/or you're not reachable while other devices work flawlessly *on _same_ band* in same location? | 01:26 |
| dimir | DocScrutinizer: E. g. we go out of city, I have no signal, my friends have 30-40 %. | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | percent gauges are a lie | 01:26 |
| dimir | DocScrutinizer: hehe ye but I can not make a call. | 01:26 |
| dimir | DocScrutinizer: and if they call me I'm out of reach. Others with same provider can call/receive calls. | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | while your friend can make a call *using* *same* *carrier*? | 01:27 |
| dimir | yep. | 01:27 |
| dimir | For sure. | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | now that's strange | 01:27 |
| dimir | I'm now thinking maybe it's the device. | 01:28 |
| dimir | But let's see how it goes with pr1.3. :-) | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never found N900 has a particularly poor sensitivity | 01:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | won't change anything | 01:28 |
| dimir | Oh man, I have enabled CSSU-Stable and no updates? :-P | 01:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sensitivity didn't change with any of the modem FW updates | 01:28 |
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| dimir | I see. | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | some devices have hw problems with modem sensitivity or keeping connection/registration though | 01:29 |
| dimir | Now that might be it. | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | most notorious case: SIM not detected | 01:30 |
| dimir | Haven't had problems with that. | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | but of course there are other problems possible | 01:30 |
| dimir | Well, it's rare case, I loose connection only if I'm in certain places where the signal is weak. | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | like poor sensitivity, due to either solderpoints, or chip deterioration, or simply a poor contact to antenna | 01:31 |
| dimir | So I can live with that. :-) | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's your issue with CSSU now? | 01:32 |
| dimir | DocScrutinizer: no issues, I have enabled it but I thought there will be updates. :-) | 01:32 |
| dimir | Or wait... | 01:32 |
| dimir | It's an app I should run. | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I dunno if there are updates beyond what already gets installed when you install CSSU | 01:33 |
| dimir | OMG. | 01:33 |
| dimir | I ran it now. | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | please read that web page about CSSU carefully | 01:33 |
| dimir | DocScrutinizer: OK. :-) | 01:33 |
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| dimir | wow, lots of updates now! | 01:34 |
| dimir | libqtm stuff | 01:34 |
| dimir | 27.7 MB | 01:34 |
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| dimir | Including CSSU stable update #2.1 | 01:36 |
| dimir | Hmm, reading that page is useful. :-D | 01:37 |
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| dimir | DocScrutinizer: is it OK to use CSSU + extras and + extras-devel? | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 02:27 |
| merlin1991 | thought extras + extras-devel makes no sense | 02:28 |
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| dimir | oh, right | 02:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: you're sure about that? | 03:22 |
| merlin1991 | 100% sure | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'dthink you could find packages in extras that are not available thru extras-devel | 03:23 |
| merlin1991 | that have to be very very rare cases | 03:23 |
| merlin1991 | since the promotion proces is upload-> devel, dev promote -> testing, voting -> extras | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, all those cases where Nokia added stuff to extras, either directly or on behalf of 2nd source | 03:24 |
| * merlin1991 doesn't know a single package that's missing in devel though | 03:24 | |
| merlin1991 | I've been running with -devel only ever since I enabled -devel | 03:24 |
| merlin1991 | and so far found no package that was missing | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | how would you find missing packages - I'd say the most significant property of a missing pkg is that you can't find it | 03:25 |
| merlin1991 | well if you expect something to be there but it isn't then you've found a missing package :D | 03:26 |
| merlin1991 | thought you're right, that I possibly have missed packages where I didn't find the info outside apt-cache | 03:26 |
| merlin1991 | s/thought/though | 03:27 |
| merlin1991 | but in theory -devel should be a superset of extras | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd bet all the pkg initially in extras were never in extras-devel, as Nokia placed them directly in extras | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd expect apps like e.g. angrybords in devel? | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | birds even | 03:29 |
| merlin1991 | isn't it in ovi? | 03:29 |
| merlin1991 | and not in extras? | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, whatever | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's been quite a number of stuff in extras that probably didn't come thru devel | 03:29 |
| merlin1991 | quit possibly, though so far everything I needed has been in -devel as well | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik extras existed even before devel was in place | 03:30 |
| merlin1991 | would be interesting to disect that a lil | 03:30 |
| merlin1991 | should be possible with apt *somehow* | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | and whatever, the recommended modus operandi is to enable devel only to install a particular pkg, then better immediately disable it again | 03:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unless you want to find constant breakage of all your apps by bleeding edge "updates" that get bugfixed just a day later... or not. | 03:32 |
| merlin1991 | on the other hand the recommended modus operandi is to enable -devel only "if you know what you do" | 03:32 |
| merlin1991 | which implies enough knowledge to run -devel 24/7 imo | 03:32 |
| merlin1991 | and I also heaven't experienced said breakage of everything yet | 03:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the problem is knowing what you do will not cure the impact of others contributing to devel while they don't know exactly what they do | 03:33 |
| merlin1991 | that's the reason why I don't blindly upgrade packages | 03:33 |
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| merlin1991 | I actually check what changes are included in an upgrade before I do so | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw with devel enabled, HAM takes like 6min30 to come up with a list | 03:34 |
| merlin1991 | not for me, but I have nothing else but devel cssu and nokia ssu enabled | 03:34 |
| merlin1991 | no testing, ovi, extras or 3rd party repos here | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm yeah, testing is actually completely useless when you got devel enabled | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ovi? what ovi? | 03:36 |
| merlin1991 | that silly repo that is there by default | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, I never had that I guess | 03:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I also doubt it's there "by default" - raher it's probably added to catalog list whenever you install sth from ovi | 03:38 |
| merlin1991 | oh it is there | 03:38 |
| merlin1991 | check /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues (or similar, no n900 here atm) it is there as "system catalouge" without even an url because it's inbuilt to ham | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe then I just puked a little, then selected "delete" | 03:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and can'T recall anymore that I did | 03:39 |
| merlin1991 | which you could have only done by editing the file because the delete button is disabled in ham for the "system" repos | 03:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 03:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer | NFC | 03:40 |
| merlin1991 | btw what do you think about including harmattan qml components in the cssu to ease backporting of harm apps? | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I rarely ever care about those friggin catalogs anymore | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | UERGH, there it is ... "OVI" | 03:42 |
| merlin1991 | :D | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | a nice example of freudian selective perception | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm rather amazed you got no developer tools repo in your list | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | I even have a SDK repo here, though deactivated | 03:45 |
| merlin1991 | I've got my scratchbox for that stuff ;) | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 03:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm I thought it will take a little until I feel like answering your question regarding QML. I didn't expect it to take that long though - I still dunno what's my notion regarding that | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe my first approach would be to ask if there's any such app that exists in HARM but not in fremantle, that's worth backporting at all | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | and if so, I'm not sure I wanna know about it, as I probably had to frown about it | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | the original idea was we get a concept working the other way round | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I hate QML | 04:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and tbh I doubt porting apps from HARM to fremantle is a simple task, esp since HARM is so incredibly FUBAR when it comes to arbitrary standard *nix way to do random things | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | better don't ask me. In the end somebody will do it anyway, so why should I suffer a headache to find out if I hate it deeply or just a little | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | if however that means we need to include that crap to CSSU, I really start to feel pain about it all | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | it would break compatibility of CSSU, in a way that makes CSSU a fork of stock PR rather than a update that fixes things | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | there would be apps that depend on CSSU, which is definitely not a good thing | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least when those apps are not tools for CSSU but actually any random app that isn't related to CSSU other than it depends on functions that are not in stock | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | here should those apps live? which repo? | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | would CSSU team provide a matching SDK for this new class of apps? | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | nonononono | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | no good idea | 04:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | once we got apps that depend on CSSU, next step will be tweaks to standard Hildon GUI to mazch any special need of those QML apps | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | and why exactly are we doing that now? to *ease* the backporting? no way! | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | if somebody wants to backport his app, he wants to use Hildon, not QML | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe somebody wants to come up with a QMLRunner wrapper app that works like a browser for QML apps, like a shell | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | this QMLRunner app can ship via usual extras-* deployment chain, no need for any special treatment in CSSU | 04:31 |
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| Sazpaimon | can something be done about text formatting on TMO | 05:01 |
| Sazpaimon | as in, turning it off | 05:01 |
| Sazpaimon | im getting a little tired of people randomly coloring/bolding/whatevering words | 05:02 |
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| Natanaiel | does N900 have MBR? | 05:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | suppose it would have considering it has TOC | 05:35 |
| ShadowJK | Sazpaimon; I'd be glad if the text would be more than third of display wide :P | 05:43 |
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| Sazpaimon | ShadowJK, one step at a time | 05:52 |
| Sazpaimon | but i think asking for any changes to TMO will largely get ignored | 05:53 |
| Sazpaimon | I think the moderators have basically accepted the trolls and idiots as commonplace now\ | 05:53 |
| ShadowJK | yes, last time I complained about layout the guy ragequit irc : | 05:54 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 05:54 |
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| dimir | Interesting, after upgrade from pr1.2 to pr1.3 the GPS module stopped working. When I open e. g. Maps the icon in status bar is blinking all the time and the app says "Looking for GPS..." . Rebooting the device does not help. Is it a known issue? | 10:43 |
| dimir | Heh, read on the forum, changing supl.nokia.com to supl.google.com fixed it. :-) | 10:49 |
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| freemangordon | Anyone knowledgable in GL/GLES? I am trying to apply a scissor, but for the life of mine cannot grok how to calculate the coordinates. Anyone can help? | 14:13 |
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| gri | Is there a more complete qt-components theme than qt-components-base-theme and qt-components-blanco-theme for maemo5? There are so many images missing in these ... | 14:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon: ShadowJK: I'm rather happy with "-- Classic Light" theme (bottom left) | 15:09 |
| ShadowJK | iirc it has gigantic fonts and issues with images? | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | no issues here | 15:10 |
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| ShadowJK | at one point it made images small and fonts huge | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | might have been like that for a few days, some 2 years ago, yes | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm using it all the time with Konqueror and it made other themes unbearable | 15:15 |
| ShadowJK | oh im thinking about minimalist light | 15:16 |
| ShadowJK | ... which gives me a very long empty page | 15:16 |
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| ShadowJK | ... until I tap "menu", at which point the thread also appeared | 15:17 |
| * ShadowJK is suddenly reminded of why he hates web forums :P | 15:18 | |
| Raimu-X | Hate the web forums? Try newspaper forums or comment threads. Those things will skewer your soul. | 15:21 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm not refering to contents :P | 15:27 |
| ShadowJK | more to the bugs | 15:28 |
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| Pali | ping freemangordon | 15:30 |
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| Raimu-X | ShadowJK: Strong man, you are. :) | 15:34 |
| Raimu-X | I just feel like exploding upon the contents. | 15:34 |
| ShadowJK | I don't really get that far | 15:34 |
| ShadowJK | first the UI latency makes me feel like exploding, then the interface bugs :P | 15:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | strong men you are - I can't read tmo on a regular basis anymore | 15:36 |
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| Raimu-X | I just read the few threads I'm really, really interested in. | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't even try to | 15:37 |
| Raimu-X | ShadowJK :D | 15:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I had a lag of like 2 weeks to answer Q in H-E-N thread adressed at me more or less | 15:38 |
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| Pali | freemangordon, where you have your kernel-power builds? | 16:55 |
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| guylhem_ | hello | 18:20 |
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| guylhem_ | I read that when fixing the n900 one should order new screws. on klc.fi I'll spend 12 euros in shipping for 4 euros in screws. Anybody got some he's not using and willing to sell? | 18:24 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, is it possible to send a fax over a cellular modem?\ | 18:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | in theory yes | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG | guylhem_, you don't REALLY need new screws | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG | unless you break the old ones | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, in practice? | 18:43 |
| guylhem_ | I just wanted to be carefull - reading the documentation before making the surgery :-) | 18:43 |
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| MohammadAG | any device, not one as /open/ as the N900 | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | new screws highly recommended, as the old ones, when breaking on tightening them, will give you massive headache | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | guylhem_, use a correct screwdriver and you'll hopefully be fine | 18:43 |
| guylhem_ | MohammadAG: thanks! | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | oh and that, don't tighten them a lot | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: in practice virtually no modem, and no carrier, sipports that mode | 18:43 |
| MohammadAG | when they stop turning with a light turn don't try to tighten them more | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG | or they'll break | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG | none of the screws broke for me though | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, oh :/ | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | AT+FCLASS=? | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | or something like that | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG | problem is the document has my visa number, otherwise I would've asked someone to help | 18:45 |
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| guylhem_ | BTW how can I retrieve the sourcecode of a published app I'd like to tweak? facebrick is on http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/facebrick/0.6/ | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | facebrick is long gone afaik | 18:46 |
| MohammadAG | in terms of working | 18:46 |
| guylhem_ | yes, but apparently it's just a problem of auth | 18:47 |
| guylhem_ | and I've read on fmobi site than a manual auth by visiting https://www.facebook.com/dialog/oauth?client_id=(…) could be used | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | guylhem_, for your original question, https://github.com/brik/facebrick | 18:48 |
| guylhem_ | thanks | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | guylhem_, but why not use sociality or fmobi? | 18:48 |
| guylhem_ | a very simple widget similar to the rss reader would have my preference | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | oh, never got to that :/ | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | guylhem_: (screws) go to your next local repair shop for small gadgets and ask them to sell you the screws. Will be more convenient and more cheap than ordering them via the internets | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | though, OTOH, you probably can't be sure they sell you unused fresh screws either | 18:50 |
| guylhem_ | :0( | 18:50 |
| guylhem_ | ç | 18:50 |
| guylhem_ | I guess U | 18:50 |
| guylhem_ | oops keyboard problems. | 18:50 |
| guylhem_ | I guess I will try to be carefull with mine. shouldn't be more complex than a good old zaurus to open | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw 4 bucks for like 6 screws - you'd think this price already includes premium shipping to any location in this solar system | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | guylhem_: yup, I also reused the old screws | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | just use the right tools, and be gentle | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | close inspection of the old screws using a magnifying glass, won't hurt though, prior to driving them in again | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above: IF one of the screws breaks and half of it sticks in N900 body, you got a serious problem | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | most likely will mean to get a new case | 18:55 |
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| guylhem_ | DocScrutinizer: hopefully that won't happen, but I've purchased a set of spare plastic parts :-) | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | good luck! btw what are you planning to do inside the device? | 19:01 |
| guylhem_ | preventive care of the USB port + replacing the digitizer (got scratches). | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: there are a zillion services in internet, that allow upload of a jpg or png or whatever and send that out via plain old FAX | 19:02 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, all my visa details including my signature are on it | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | guylhem_: \o/ | 19:03 |
| guylhem_ | MohammadAG: where do you want to send it? | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not uploading it to a random service | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | guylhem_, Apple | 19:03 |
| guylhem_ | which country? US? | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | +1 so yeah | 19:03 |
| guylhem_ | I can give you the passwd of my fax service by email so you can send the file | 19:03 |
| MohammadAG | visa number ;/ | 19:04 |
| MohammadAG | :/* | 19:04 |
| guylhem_ | or we can arrange some vnc so I type the number, you select the file to send and then remove it afterwards | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | YAY | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably the easiest way to solve the problem is your office supply shop next corner. They usually send fax for you, or you even may use the machine yourself and they just bill you by nr of pages afterwards | 19:06 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i'm using faxtastic | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | post office tends to offer same service | 19:08 |
| jacekowski | thing about them is you can recieve faxes for free | 19:08 |
| jacekowski | and you get fax number for free | 19:08 |
| guylhem_ | If you're in a hurry email guylhem at guylhem dot net and I'll send you the url and passwd. alternatively if you feel like trusting me, do a google search, a whois on my domain etc | 19:08 |
| guylhem_ | regarding facebrick IIRC the auth is not being processed but according to http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=897259&postcount=735 people who already auth' should be fine. I have never played with facebook before but if the problem is just making an initial auth a separate app to do that could easily fix facebrick. Or am I mistaken? | 19:09 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: n900 can't send faxes | 19:09 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: older phones could send faxes without problems | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | We already checked that :-) | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | (older phones) only if your carrier allows | 19:10 |
| jacekowski | n900 can't do CSD whatsoever | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | guylhem_, yes, it should | 19:10 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: as long as your phone can do CSD you should be fine | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | if facebrick uses the oauth method | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, iPhone? | 19:11 |
| jacekowski | no | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: not really | 19:11 |
| jacekowski | it has to provide normal AT interface to PC | 19:11 |
| guylhem_ | MohammadAG: if you have a VOIP account you can try a T38 protocol client to send it | 19:11 |
| MohammadAG | I can wait I gues | 19:11 |
| MohammadAG | s | 19:11 |
| jacekowski | and then it's just like any CSD connection | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: fax is a different distinct service flag on GSM OTA datagrams | 19:11 |
| MohammadAG | or there should be a fax on campus | 19:11 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: yeah if it goes to phone | 19:11 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: if you are making fax call from phone how network is supposed to tell a difference between modem and fax machine on remote end | 19:12 |
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| jacekowski | they can block CSD to all numbers, but there is no way to tell fax apart from a modem | 19:12 |
| jacekowski | not without doing DPI | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | simple as that: you're sending DATA over the air, and that data is encoded via a fax codec in carrier's gateway for fax CSD, and via a modem V32 or whatnot codec for modem data CSD | 19:13 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: fax is same thing as modem | 19:14 |
| guylhem_ | c | 19:14 |
| guylhem_ | 19:14 | |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, definitely not | 19:14 |
| guylhem_ | jacekowski: codec is different | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | most modems also support fax, yeah | 19:14 |
| jacekowski | "modern" modems can do v92 and other stuff | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | but not for the carrier's gateway 'modem' | 19:14 |
| jacekowski | but faxes have some common codes to normal modem transmission | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 19:15 |
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| jacekowski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fax#Data_transmission_rate | 19:16 |
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| jacekowski | here is the list of codecs | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 19:16 |
| jacekowski | V.34 and v.34bis was very common codec for normal modem stuff | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you CAN NOT connect to a fax when all you got is a modem doing V.32 | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's what your carrier usually will offer | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even plain V.34 will connect to a fax for all I know | 19:20 |
| jacekowski | well, i've sent many faxes from mobiles | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | which is what carrier will offer for data codec on HSCSD | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure, ask if your mobile supports fax (AT+FCLASS) and you'll see why | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | and how | 19:22 |
| jacekowski | not with my current phone | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | for CSD you got 3 service classes: voice, data, fax | 19:22 |
| jacekowski | but with my old nokia 6230 | 19:22 |
| jacekowski | no problems | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | carrier selects codec depending on service class | 19:22 |
| jacekowski | i'm not sure if i can get to at interface of my phone | 19:23 |
| guylhem_ | apparently from facebrick code oauth is used, but if I try to do just like fmobi with a log url | 19:23 |
| guylhem_ | n | 19:23 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: codecs are negotiated | 19:23 |
| jacekowski | so you can call very old modems and stuff | 19:23 |
| guylhem_ | like in http://pastebin.ca/2121778 it doesn't work. Maybe the clientid # 110513258970087 has been deprecated by facebrick authors. | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: your carrier won't negotiate a voice codec for a data service class CSD connection, and they won't offer fax codecs on voice or data, and they will offer fax only on fax CSD | 19:24 |
| jacekowski | those are the same codecs | 19:25 |
| jacekowski | on reasonably new fax machines | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's BS | 19:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even class 3 doesn't know about mere data fax protocols | 19:25 |
| jacekowski | i'll be home tomorrow | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | class4 maybe | 19:26 |
| jacekowski | and i'll test it with N95 | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can even send color faxes via class4 | 19:26 |
| jacekowski | look, i've sent faxes over mobile network | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | but class4 fax machines are still rare, and I doubt your fax program you use to send the fax via your mobile will always support class4 always | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: so WHAT?? of course you can send fax CSD as long as your proviuder allows, given your mobile supports service class "fax" | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | which new mobile devices don't | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | you however CAN NOT send fax via service class "data" | 19:28 |
| jacekowski | so, how does phone know when to switch to data and when to switch to fax | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | please ask your mobile with command AT+FCLASS? | 19:29 |
| jacekowski | if all it's getting is ATDT number | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | not at all | 19:29 |
| jacekowski | init commands were same | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | you have to initiate a fax call on your AT interface to mobile | 19:30 |
| jacekowski | well, i didn't | 19:30 |
| jacekowski | and it worked | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's really rare - there's a way carrier and MT can allow to switch service class on the fly | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've never seen any carrier support this | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, let's agree on this: if MohammadAG has no mobile supporting (HS)CSD, he's screwed for sending fax | 19:32 |
| jacekowski | only thing was that if you wanted to recieve a fax you needed a separate number for that | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 does not support CSD | 19:32 |
| jacekowski | because that's how they could tell apart between incoming fax call and incoming voice call | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: yes obviously, as then there's no way to negotiate service class prior to establishing connection | 19:33 |
| jacekowski | but sending faxes was free for all ( well, they've charged arm and leg for CSD connections ) | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | so the only GSM conforming way to tell your MT "hey, this is a FAX, please don't try to talk to it!" is to send INVITE to a dedicated fax number | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw same applies for incoming data CSD calls | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | a MT per default only offers service class 'voice' | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | for inbound | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and nowadays most phones don't even offer a complete (or none at all) AT-interface | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | and no CSD | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | which is a pity, as data CSD was the only viable way to do encrypted voice calls over GSM | 19:37 |
| guylhem_ | apparently facebrick source pulled from git is different from the binary. there's a reference to http://w00t.dereferenced.net/facebook in the binary that is not working when you visit the page. maybe it was a gateway? | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | but in times of VoIP, who would mention when his call gets routed via internet, even when it's a crypted call, so we have to resort to UMTS/3G data services for that | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/mention/mind/ | 19:39 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: but in times of VoIP, who would mind when his call gets routed via internet, even when it's a crypted call, so we have to resort to UMTS/3G data services for that | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | CSD isn't fashinable anymore :-/ | 19:40 |
| guylhem_ | ok it was a session proxy that got disabled | 19:41 |
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| jacekowski | talking about voip, i need to find some way of working around my carriers firewall | 19:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for sth completely different: recent discussions about battery standby time and power consumption made me put my daily N900 on the desk without the usual charging plug 24h ago. Services running: 2G voice, WLAN with power savingsa mode max/10mW, IRC (xchat) running on 7 freenode chan, no display. Now after 24h battery is at 55% remaining charge | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: try using a different port than 5060 | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | most VoIP providers don't care much about the port | 19:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and chances are your carrier only has a block on that particular port | 19:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but if nothing else helps, you might have to resort to VPN or sth | 19:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tunneling thru DNS to your private exposed server | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe even via ssh | 20:01 |
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| jacekowski | well, tunneling is going to increase RTT | 20:20 |
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| Sicelo | i missed the fax 'debate' .. interesting. makes me want to get my Nokia 9300i back for fresh experiments. I tried all i could to get the fax to work. maybe i'll try the N-Gage as a fax modem | 21:15 |
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| dos1 | DocScrutinizer: ping | 21:28 |
| guylhem_ | how can I get into target mode (power+u) with backup menu installed? | 21:43 |
| Sicelo | can you perhaps rephrase? :) | 21:47 |
| Sicelo | maybe you mean booting with keyboard open :/ | 21:48 |
| Sicelo | or, if you want to flash.. that should work irregardless of backupmenu | 21:48 |
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| guylhem_ | nope - got to half open the keyboard. just succeeded after seeing the pic on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61772 | 21:49 |
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| Sicelo | i don't know what it is you're doing.. but regular flashing works for me with backupmenu (at least i load debian kernels using flasher without any quirks) | 21:51 |
| guylhem_ | didn't work for me but now it's flashing | 21:52 |
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| robbiethe1st | Also, mind... I think I've pointed out many times... There's no need to press 'u' when flashing. Just make sure the flasher's 'waiting' before you plug in the USB cable. | 21:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dos1: pong | 22:13 |
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| dos1 | DocScrutinizer: sooo... how does broken USB port in N900 look like? ;/ | 22:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, looks like... a hole in the plastic case with no or a wobbly USB receptacle behind it | 22:20 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: well, not necessarily | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | or do you ask how to diagnose the problem? | 22:20 |
| kerio | my broken USB port looks normal | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: sure, I know | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: honestly, dos1 's question been a bit fuzzy | 22:21 |
| dos1 | well, mine stopped responding to anything | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | a bit like "what's the best of Texas?" | 22:22 |
| kerio | austin | 22:22 |
| kerio | although it's not really the best, it's the least worse | 22:23 |
| dos1 | and is looking just fine | 22:23 |
| kerio | dos1: if the USB port doesn't work, it's broken | 22:23 |
| kerio | that's like the definition | 22:23 |
| kerio | you can probably get some kind of connection if you kinda force the plug up or down | 22:23 |
| kerio | which is good, because it means that it's not totally broken inside | 22:23 |
| dos1 | tried with no luck ;( | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | dos1: then you should probably check the VBUS sysnode (or use multimeter and a cut-up USB cable to check conducting connection from VBUS to the USB5V+ testpad in battery bay) and also probe both D+ and D- for contact to the dual testpads in battery bay | 22:24 |
| dos1 | removed battery and played a bit with it - orange LED blinked few times for some fractions of second, but it was very hard to repeat | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't try to 'force plug' or do other weird potentially dangerous things please | 22:25 |
| kerio | you'd also get some kind of reaction if you hit your n900's screen with a hammer! | 22:26 |
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| maybeHere | that's completely recoverable btw | 22:26 |
| maybeHere | just exchange the screen | 22:26 |
| kerio | maybeHere: not if you hit hard enough | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | get a multimeter and check resistance between the cable ends and the testpoints! | 22:27 |
| maybeHere | (although i didn't hammer mine, i just sequeezed it to death because of some rage inducing email) | 22:27 |
| kerio | maybeHere: haha what | 22:27 |
| maybeHere | (and the email wasn't even from nokia) | 22:27 |
| shanttu | hi. does n900 still have problems with some sd cards? | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | dos1: please check: | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix | 22:28 |
| infobot | usbfix is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 22:28 |
| kerio | shanttu: last i heard SD cards still don't fit anywhere | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | it has links to all the info you need | 22:28 |
| kerio | there's a microSD slot though, perhaps you could use that! | 22:28 |
| shanttu | kerio, ok =) microsd then | 22:28 |
| maybeHere | kerio: since that incident i don't even have any reason to be in this channel anymore as i replaced my n900 with a galaxy s2 (but i gave the repaired n900 to some friend who could use it far better than me) | 22:28 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders /mode +q kerio | 22:29 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: noooo :( | 22:29 |
| maybeHere | what i really really really miss is the alarm clock function even when the phone is switched off, it's kind of ridiculous android doesn't support this | 22:30 |
| kerio | switching off your phone is lame anyway | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybeHere: so please don't jump in to a serious chat where somebody has *real* problems and hopes for help. This is no stand up comedian chan | 22:30 |
| maybeHere | sorry. | 22:30 |
| kerio | shanttu: anyway, i never heard of problems with µSDs | 22:31 |
| kerio | do you have one that doesn't work? | 22:31 |
| dos1 | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 22:31 |
| dos1 | trying to check vbus sysnode now | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | dos1: please keep me updated on any further steps you take and results you get. AIUI your device is one of those I "forwarded"? So it has no warranty :-/ | 22:32 |
| shanttu | kerio, i've read from tmo that many has had problems with them. i read adata works and have one. it gets corrupted often..but works. | 22:32 |
| shanttu | just wondering if there is some updated information on suitable brands and classes | 22:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dos1: (not that a waranty would be any good for. As Nokia simply swaps N900 for some sybian crap now) | 22:34 |
| kerio | sybian? | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, +m | 22:34 |
| kerio | :> | 22:34 |
| kerio | well, a sybian would be as good as a n8 as a n900 replacement | 22:35 |
| kerio | IE not at all | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | the difference is negligible | 22:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dos1: as speedevil (IIRC) has pointed out several times: also make sure it's not your cable that's defect, and check the USB receptacle optically for debris and/or bent contacts etc | 22:37 |
| dos1 | DocScrutinizer: tried with both charger and usb cable connected to PC | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | what did you expect to see? what did you get instead? | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. what makes you think your USB is broken? | 22:38 |
| dos1 | i expected to see charging, and - when connected to pc - to see popup window (mass storage or pc mode) on maemo | 22:39 |
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| dos1 | nothing happened | 22:40 |
| dos1 | tried also with phone turned off - expected it to turn on - also nothing happened | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | might both get defeated by e.g. bme segfaulting to death, which in turn may easily be caused by that notorius unbearable bq27200.ko module | 22:40 |
| dos1 | tried also with SHR | 22:40 |
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| dos1 | and checking fsodeviced logs for some charging related events | 22:40 |
| dos1 | nothing happened | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, that's a good test indeed - phone shall turn on when plugged in and VBus applied | 22:41 |
| dos1 | vbus sysnode is always 0 | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | concludent | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | check receptacle with a magn glass and good light | 22:42 |
| dos1 | i guess that's everything i can do from software side | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | no startup and vbus sysnode always 0 means you got some hw problem | 22:42 |
| guylhem_ | where are the applications catalog stored ? ~/ | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | dos1: also try to wag the USB receptacle a bit with a pin or toothpick or sth. It mustn't move, nada | 22:44 |
| guylhem_ | or in gconf ? | 22:44 |
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| guylhem_ | appmanager just "purged" all the catalogs during an update | 22:49 |
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| dos1 | DocScrutinizer: it doesn't move | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | inspect closely with a magnifier glass, then consider cutting a USB cable in two halves | 22:56 |
| guylhem_ | oops a process must have died. a reboot and its fine now | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | you may have a mechanically induced contact/connection problem at USB receptacle as well as some electric issue (e.g. blown fuse) | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | a decent electrical test will give some valuable hints | 22:58 |
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| Sicelo | guylhem_: HAM can take its time.. you just had to wait 'indefinitely', lol. it's happened to me a number of times ... and 10 minutes later, catalogs show | 22:58 |
| guylhem_ | Sicelo: just after a flash that got me stressed! all I was doing was trying toinstall *fast* appmanager | 22:59 |
| guylhem_ | die ham die | 22:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fapman no good! | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | tries to be too smart and fast | 23:16 |
| guylhem_ | ? | 23:16 |
| guylhem_ | troll troll troll | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | orly?` | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | yu're sure you know what troll even means? | 23:17 |
| guylhem_ | what exactly do you have about fam? | 23:17 |
| guylhem_ | too smart regarding caches? | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, you'll find out the hard way, as you think you're smarter than me | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | have fiun, enjoy | 23:18 |
| guylhem_ | no please tell me. | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | asking "please tell me" to a troll? c'mon :-/ | 23:19 |
| guylhem_ | appmanager manages to crash at the very first reboot. besides utiing apt-get I see no other option | 23:19 |
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| guylhem_ | you're teasing it's no good. tell me more | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | pff | 23:19 |
| guylhem_ | whatever | 23:20 |
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