IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-08-05

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DocScrutinizermoin javispedro00:02
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javispedrowth is this?
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b-man`hey DocScrutinizer, long time no see :)00:35
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: how the heck you found this weird riddle?00:36
javispedroit was on Stskeeps' twitter feed.00:36
javispedrono idea where he got it from.00:36
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DocScrutinizerwell, there are probably just 2 possibilities: either stskeeps created it, or abill_uk sent it to stskeeps00:39
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DocScrutinizereither way it's weird00:40
MohammadAG*dramatic slide-in* or stskeeps and abill_uk are the same person00:40
Atariiany idea why MyDocs is suddenly Read-Only ?00:43
ShadowJKfilesystem corruption00:44
ShadowJKConnect to PC, copy everything from it as backup, run chkdsk or fsck on it00:44
Atariithink I'll just give it a vanilla flash00:44
ShadowJKhints might exist in output of 'dmesg'00:45
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Atariiah yes, Filesystem error00:46
Atariithanks for the pointers00:46
AtariiI'll wipe celan and restore via BackupMenu00:46
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MohammadAGthat might not be the smartest move00:52
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MohammadAGjust chkdsk or fsck it00:52
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Atariitoo late00:56
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DocScrutinizeractually if you would've flashed eMMC then restore /opt and /home directly via backupmenu, you probably also would've been fine01:24
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DocScrutinizereven a mkfs.vfat on MyDocs was way faster and a bit smarter :-)01:24
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JaffaGAN900: Talking of TMO, SD69 seems to be going off on one; and the trolls & conspiracy nuts then join in on this fun thread:
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JaffaGAN900: Alternates between being Nokia's fault, Intel's fault or a "M$" ploy to kill MeeGo01:36
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MohammadAGjacekowski, know of a place for the wl1271 datasheet?01:49
MohammadAGalso, did you apply for the N950?01:49
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VenemoJaffa, hmmm01:50
VenemoJaffa, what is the truth?01:50
luke-jrMohammadAG: I did, but I never heard back on whether Gentoo was acceptable or just MeeGo01:51
JaffaVenemo: That LF are risk averse with limited technical resources, but a strong legal department who are used to dealing with corporations, and the thought of individual contributors uploading and distributing things directly through something they are responsible for sent shivers up the lawyers' backs and they nixed the whole thing.01:51
javispedrowhat does #ff mean in twitter btw?01:52
MohammadAGfollow friday01:53
SpeedEvilFollow friday01:53
javispedroah, I see it's a common thing.01:53
MohammadAGyou list your best followers01:53
MohammadAGyeah, mm was a trend a year ago, music mondays01:53
VenemoJaffa, why am I feeling that this is ridiculous on the LF's part? can't they just make us all sign something like we will accept all risks and take responsibility for our shit?01:55
DocScrutinizerVenemo: how's a simple URL that important with respect to *anything*?01:57
JaffaVenemo: Well, since no part of the MeeGo leadership is particularly communicative on this (or, in fact, any) topic - leaving it to the Apps team (X-Fade & lbt) - we don't know.01:57
VenemoDocScrutinizer, no idea01:57
JaffaVenemo: I'm sure that's been put to them, but in many ways this is actually useful in really bringing out the problems in the MeeGo Project01:57
VenemoJaffa, I see... any chance of also solving those problems?01:58
JaffaVenemo: Our armchairing lawyering can only go so far in Devil's Advocating (can I verbify that? ;-)) possibly inexplicable behaviour01:58
JaffaVenemo: I'm trying, waiting on some replies to emails.01:58
DocScrutinizerand in the end: who the F* is LF? (i know i know, linux foundation, but nevertheless...)01:58
JaffaVenemo: Some stuff will be in next week's MWKN.01:58
VenemoJaffa, I'm crossing my fingers for you01:58
DocScrutinizerwhat did they do for me that I can't live without?01:59
JaffaVenemo: More stuff from me personally will probably go public at some point <shrug/>01:59
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: A "wonderful" MeeGo Conference keynote about how great Android is?01:59
VenemoJaffa, okay :)01:59
javispedrohypnotic spires included01:59
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javispedroI do not think they fear the patents perse.02:01
javispedromaking the math with previous "maemo devices", the community repo will be the defacto store02:02
javispedroand thus when any kind of shit hits the fan (and not only patents), it will spread all over the LF.02:02
Jaffajavispedro: Doubt it for Harmattan given the lack of the built-in package explorer.02:02
Jaffajavispedro: But I suspect that's part of it. They're not an organisation built to scale.02:03
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javispedroJaffa: having to add extras-devel didn't stop anyone02:03
javispedrowell, not anyone who had internet visibiliyt that is .02:03
Jaffajavispedro: True02:03
javispedroit might have stopped my granny, if she ever returned from the grave to buy a n900...02:04
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* javispedro wishes he could write words on this document that I have to write with the same fluidity I do on this window =(02:05
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javispedrogoing back to the topic, I cannot avoid but think of how the LF would have handled the emulators fiasco.02:06
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Jaffajavispedro: Very true02:08
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javispedrobtw, the emulator story is also one of exemplar behavior from nokia. Compare to Google.02:14
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nox-emulators fiasco?  whats that about?02:15
javispedro(now someone will appear and mention that due to the emulators story, the nintendo copyright czar cursed Nokia with his old black magic arts and that's why Elop came to power)02:15
nox-oh copyright fighting?02:15
nox-thats too bad :/02:19
javispedronox-: there was some video from nokia where someone played snes on a n900, nintendo even made a public statement about it.02:19
javispedrowas this the google appstore, the apps silently removed and the accounts permanently blocked.02:20
nox-oh well...02:20
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merlin1991thanks doc, now I'm stuck in an infinite hypnotoad loop02:21
GAN900What fun am I missing?02:22
GAN900Was stuck in XChat connection migration.02:22
merlin1991lf bashing and hypnotoad02:22
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JaffaGAN900: Troll on TMO claims I'm not enthusiastic for Maemo,, Nokia, whatever.02:22
JaffaGAN900: Yeah, and as merlin1991 says some LF exploratory "WTF" comments02:23
merlin1991Jaffa: could you link the trollpost?02:24
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GAN900Jaffa, kids and their lack of history education.02:25
GAN900If only they knew. . . .02:25
GAN900Jaffa, where would you put your hours investment at this point?02:25
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Jaffamerlin1991: start from there02:26
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JaffaGAN900: Pandora's obviously the way to go. They get it, penguinbait told me so.02:26
JaffaHmm, I've just had a really bad thought. What if Mike Cane was *right*?!02:27
javispedropandora as in the openpandora I know?02:27
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Jaffajavispedro: Yeah02:28
javispedrogotta say that I was thinking earlier today that it is probably easier to get an n950 than a openpandora02:28
* Jaffa 's going to design his own hardware, build his own OS - it'll be great.02:28
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javispedrohey, hasn't Smoku just started doing that? :)02:32
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JaffaOff-the-shelf h/w AFAICT02:33
ds3hurrah... more hw02:33
javispedrowhen I saw it I thought "he's gone crazy already from reading too much abill_uk". Then realized the fact I think he's crazy is the reason I will never make any money =)02:35
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javispedroso I now say, go ahead and good luck :)02:36
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: Jaffa: GAN900: I'm not following pandora since quite some time now, but recently heard from somebody who *really* knows the market and what's going on as he bashed pandora for betraying and robbing people, and the whole thing turned from an enthusiastic project of some guys who had no clue about hw manufacturing into a big hoax that self-supports as it's impossible to get out of the story now02:43
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Same thing as happened in the RISC OS world about loads of different tablets.02:45
infobotJaffa meant: DocScrutinizer: Same thing as happened in the RISC OS world about loads of different laptops.02:45
javispedrotablets have not replaced laptopts dammit!02:45
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javispedroJaffa: remove that idea steve jobs has implanted on you via ipad from your subconscious02:46
DocScrutinizerand aiui pandora hasn't shipped a single device yet, but still holds down-payments of a number of customers02:46
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: oh they have shipped devices02:47
DocScrutinizerthose guys *really* are in some nasty pinch02:47
javispedrobut few, and there have entire defective batches, ...02:47
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DocScrutinizermhm, so they try to take it to step 2 of the pyramid system now? paying pandora1 with downpayments for pandora2 devices?02:48
javispedroI do not see malice though02:49
DocScrutinizerwell, maybe they may ask their paying customers to pay again, then get one working and one defective pandora102:50
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javispedrothey did start a secondary project02:51
javispedroI remember some fuss about drivers for maemo even02:51
DocScrutinizerthe down payment for pandora1 was excusable as they didn't know what they did, now they *are* knowing what they do and still ask for down payments?02:51
javispedroit was a bt controller designed for smartphones in mind02:52
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DocScrutinizerI wonder when they will buy their tickets to mexico02:52
nox-and i wonder if there are some people that dont want them to succeed... :/02:53
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nox-(i.e. are all the failed batches really accidental?)02:54
DocScrutinizeryou bet there are always such people02:54
DocScrutinizernox-: building hw is an art, you have to pay a lot of education fees02:55
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DocScrutinizerjust some hours ago we speculated how many defective hw called N950 Nokia has built, and you'd think Nokia knows their business with building hardware02:56
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DocScrutinizerOM never built any phone hardware that could be attributed as "working"02:57
DocScrutinizerand they (as I've not yet been part of OM at that time) practiced like 15 versions of Neo 1973 and at least 9 versions of Neo FR03:00
* GeneralAntilles yawns.03:00
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: sorry, I know it's a boring old story03:00
* SpeedEvil bounces while mostly asleep.03:00
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, oops, sorry. That was a "good morning" yawn. Not a mean one. :P03:01
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javispedrohate to say but it's true, except for the threads linked there I've mostly stopped reading TMO03:06
javispedronever thought the day would arrive.03:07
SpeedEvilAll we need is the right captchas.03:07
javispedro*linked here03:07
DocScrutinizersame here03:08
JaffaSame three03:08
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infoboti guess tmo is, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo03:11
DocScrutinizerI liked the original version better03:11
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DocScrutinizerjust forgot what's the "o" been for in the original ~tmo03:12
DocScrutinizer~forget tmo03:12
infobotDocScrutinizer: i forgot tmo03:12
DocScrutinizer~factinfo tmo03:12
infobotDocScrutinizer: there's no such factoid as tmo03:12
DocScrutinizer~liskeys tmo03:12
DocScrutinizer~listkeys tmo03:12
infobotFactoid search of 'tmo' by key (19 of 30): artmoney ;; bitmonk ;; hostmode ;; ptkfunc tk_strictmotif ;; instmon ;; svgatextmode ;; weathercode htmo ;; atmosphere ;; toolbox _textmode ;; qtmozilla ;; hostmode-powered ;; lart-tmo-lemming ;; hotmole ;; postmodernism ;; oldtest patmos ;; wmnetmon ;; netmon ;; knetmon ;; ltmodem.03:13
DocScrutinizer~unforget tmo03:13
infobotDocScrutinizer: Successfully recovered 'tmo'.  Have fun now.03:13
javispedroseems that today is Android spanking day, patents, open governance, anticompetitive practices..03:13
DocScrutinizermeh, I feel like spanking evrybody and all today :-P03:14
DocScrutinizer~spank tmo trolls03:14
* infobot bends tmo trolls over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on tmo trolls's pasty white buttocks.03:14
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FireFly|n900It seems the input auto-completion doesn't pay attention to the 'written words' dictionary for me; can I enable this somehow?03:25
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FireFly|n900I can't find anything relevant under "Settings"03:25
DocScrutinizerwritten words dictionary?03:31
DocScrutinizeryou mean the "history"03:32
DocScrutinizernm, I can't help anyway, as I decided word completion is useless and switched it off on day203:32
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DocScrutinizerauto-capitalization was off at day303:33
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* GeneralAntilles fondly recalls the ITt days.03:38
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: cause of abill_uk?03:48
GeneralAntillesBack when it was the #maemo of its day.03:48
javispedroam I right if I say that abill_uk is finally the best troll tmo has ever had?03:49
ysssplease define 'best'03:49
GeneralAntillesI want one?03:49
GeneralAntillesDarius2006 was pretty epic.03:50
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javispedroI am sure he was permanently banned03:52
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DocScrutinizerbest by which metrics?04:02
DocScrutinizerseems nowadays even the trolls are not all uniform on their aims. Some obviously have invented speedtrolling, trying to get banned as fast as possible04:03
ysssthey've picked the wrong board, if that's their sole aim04:08
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DocScrutinizermaybe that's the thrill of speedtrolling, it's pointless on a board with tough moderation04:12
DocScrutinizeras tmo wouldn't need any trolls at all to go OT on every thread and also become a flameware just so often, probably getting banned is the only measurable success for trolls on tmo. It might easily be the birth location of the idea of speedtrolling04:14
DocScrutinizerplease don't quote me on that, as "[I'm] not god you know"04:16
DocScrutinizer</quote name=abill_uk>04:16
JaffaI thought he was.04:16
Jaffamisterc seems to think I might be.04:16
DocScrutinizerI, err ME04:16
DocScrutinizer"youre not god you know"04:16
DocScrutinizer"youre asking for your own trouble... bla bla"04:17
JaffaOh. I know you're some form of deity.04:18
JaffaBut I'm leaning towards Lucifer ;-p04:18
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ysssIt'd be a real shame if the trolls actually affect the outcome of public discussions of the future of tmo though04:20
* lew Working Time04:20
DocScrutinizertrolls will affect the future directly, no need and no worries about them affecting any discussion about the future04:22
SpeedEvilThey absolutely should affect the outcome.04:22
SpeedEvilSome means of stopping the community becoming toxic is require.04:23
DocScrutinizerwhile others are discussing tmo's future (though I didn't notice, luckily), trolls *are* the future of tmo04:23
DocScrutinizerand the present, I have to add04:24
DocScrutinizerJaffa: you missed the best part of that thread, as sjgadsby ruthlessly deleted posts and banned one troll (alas only one)04:26
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JaffaTMO can basically be boiled down to "announcements" and "weird little cool hacks" and then "EVERY LITTLE OTHER PIECE OF SHIT"04:28
JaffaHopefully we find enough of the first two categories to put into MWKN that the rest (about 90% when I look at it) can be ignored04:28
JaffaAnd if the requirement is to have a forum for application authors to engage with their users, and people to share cool hacks; maybe a TMO restructure could solve that.04:29
ysssit should just be made legitimate.. a fork of tmo: trolls.maemo.org04:29
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DocScrutinizera mirror, where all posts of members with a karma of <100 are redirected to :-P04:31
SpeedEvilSlight flaw.04:31
SpeedEvilTrolls get Karma.04:31
DocScrutinizerltt thanks04:31
DocScrutinizerI know04:31
SpeedEvilIf they troll right.04:31
DocScrutinizerthat's what the frown button riginally was meant for, to neutralize Itt thanks with Itt-antithanks04:33
DocScrutinizerbut for the mirror idea it should be sth better than that04:33
DocScrutinizeractually I think post options have to become a value, I.E. you have to earn options and you can't have infinite amount of them04:34
JaffaPosting ability related to thanksness?04:35
DocScrutinizersth like that04:35
DocScrutinizeralso to mere age04:35
SpeedEvilNewbs don't get vowels/04:35
JaffaEventually, moving towards /. moderation and default posting scores (in some ways)04:35
JaffaDocScrutinizer: I wouldn't bother suggesting it, Reggie seems to have disappeared.04:36
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: see, for example,
DocScrutinizersee, if you get only one post per day free, and you can't accumulate more post options than you got weeks on your account, trolls would quickly feel pissed04:36
DocScrutinizerand you could earn a new option for each post that gets thanked by enough senior members04:37
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: sorry, I don't get the point04:42
JaffaDocScrutinizer: A feature is already developed and requires turning on. It was one of the original requirements for FMC and one of the justifications for vBulletin (closed source) was that it could do email integration. It was sat on for ages over concern of "server load". MeeGo IT team eager to use it and now server move has completed nothing should stand in its way04:44
JaffaDocScrutinizer: But Reggie keeps disappearing and not answering/responding to pokes about it.04:44
JaffaDocScrutinizer: So, developing a whole new commenting/posting system seems... unlikely.04:44
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DocScrutinizerand tbh I'm just doing smalltalk as I couldn't care less about tmo future. tmo is dead, and I don't think I'm smart enough to revive it04:45
* Jaffa nods04:46
JaffaAnyway, bed time. I've been too tired to go to bed, but it's nearly 3am so I should.04:46
* DocScrutinizer waves04:46
SpeedEvilNight all.04:47
* DocScrutinizer waves again04:47
* DocScrutinizer says n8 204:47
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: enjoy your last untroubled dreams :-D It's frustrating to have an awesome shiny but basically useless piece of hardware sitting on your desk and staring at you every day :-P04:48
SpeedEvilI need to do more UI base stuff.04:49
SpeedEvilSo I figure I can split doing the less involved stuff too.04:49
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Termanagood morning08:24
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UltrA420hi...anybody use N900 here?09:34
hiemanshunaah, we all have iPhones09:34
UltrA420are you kidding ?09:35
hiemanshuI am serious09:35
SpeedEvilI have a android09:35
UltrA420how could it be...i thought only N900 and N8?0 support maemo09:35
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hiemanshuSampppa_: did you try the new angry birds on the iPad 2?09:35
hiemanshuits lovely09:35
SpeedEvilIf you pop up in a channel, and ask a silly question...09:35
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hiemanshuSpeedEvil: android meh, get an iPhone09:35
Sampppa_hiemanshu: i have got enough of angry birds already  :)09:36
hiemanshuhah ok09:36
Sampppa_hiemanshu: but new Skype is good for ipad2 :)09:36
hiemanshuand FB enabler :D09:36
UltrA420anybody could suggest another webos game? i have installed nsfu already..i want another09:36
hiemanshuif you buy an iPhone try, plants vs zombies09:36
Sampppa_hiemanshu: do i know you? How did u know i have ipad2? :D09:37
TermanaHe knew because of the way you walk and the way you talk09:38
TermanaJust kidding! :p09:38
Sampppa_lol :)09:38
hiemanshuSampppa_: wild guess :P09:38
hiemanshuand I remember you speaking about one09:38
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Sampppa_hiemanshu: on IRC?09:38
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Sampppa_hiemanshu: i must have been drunk cos i cant remember :)09:39
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ysssi bet when things turn for the better, abill will be the first to take credit for it09:39
Termanathis is a problem09:40
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UltrA420dear  hiemanshu ,thank you for your advise. but i don't like plants vs zombies. i hvae already  played this game on pc for thounds of times09:40
TermanaDamn BNC is reconnecting me for some reason09:40
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wjtsooo. is there anything that I can do about Sojourner 0.2.4 not being imported to extras-devel, despite building fine? The conference starts tomorrow …10:37
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godtrunkswhen it's the conference??10:46
wjtgodtrunks: “the conference” == Desktop Summit 2011 in Berlin, in my case :)10:48
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RST38hGoo moorning all10:59
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DocScrutinizerwjt: ping X-Fade11:08
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godtrunksnew stuff for maemo??:D11:10
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wjtX-Fade: hello. any idea why has not been added to extras-devel?11:32
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AtariiSo I got metasploit running on my N900 but it takes 4 years to start up. Anyone used this before?11:51
DocScrutinizerhardly, all of the early adopters are just halfway thru startup11:57
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Arkenoiwhat did you expect on 256Mb?12:05
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Hurrianraid0 mmcblk* -- can we do it?12:46
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: intriguing idea, but prolly overkill13:05
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cehtehHurrian: yes, but kernel has a bug on concurrent access, wont be faster :/13:08
cehtehi tried raiding swap (same prio) the device doesnt become faster but more unreliable13:08
cehtehgodtrunks: what?13:08
godtrunksneed some help13:10
godtrunkslter u r?13:10
godtrunksl8er u r?13:10
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crashanddiegodtrunks, speak normally13:10
godtrunksi'm at work13:11
crashanddiedoes that prevent you to write in proper English?13:11
godtrunksi can't speak now13:11
fralsthen dont speak?13:11
godtrunkshave break in 20 min13:11
crashanddiemake my day.13:11
crashanddieBe a troll.13:12
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godtrunksi want to remove gingerbread from my phone13:12
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godtrunksit;s in my system..13:13
godtrunksi create another partition13:14
godtrunksi want to remove it13:15
godtrunksbut how?13:15
godtrunkscan u hlp me?13:16
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robbiethe1stUh, ask on the forums?13:22
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godtrunkscan't help me?13:28
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Cor-Aishort skirts and hard wind <313:33
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godtrunksso, how i remove it?13:34
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cehtehreflash your device, combined and emmc :D13:45
DocScrutinizerduh, why didn't I think about that obvious answer? :-D13:46
chem|stDocScrutinizer: no idea... how about eating popcorn for once?13:47
infoboti guess maemo-flashing is
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cehtehwe need a flash image for µSD as well .. to ease support13:49
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godtrunkstha'ts bad..14:04
godtrunksthat's bad..14:04
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godtrunksand it's no other way?14:05
merlin1991godtrunks: in theory you should be able to remove the partition and expand the old one as long as the partition you want to delete is at the end of the physical space14:09
DocScrutinizer51just do the reverse procedure you used to create it14:10
Hurrianhmm, anyone still here interested in raid?14:11
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Hurriani think the bug was in swapon though14:11
Hurriana real striped device is probably better14:11
godtrunkswish me luck :))14:12
DocScrutinizerwe might be interested as soon as you report great success14:12
godtrunksi do it after backup14:13
cehtehHurrian: try and report :)14:13
DocScrutinizerHurrian: and yes I think there was a flaw in swapon as well14:13
DocScrutinizerthis doesn't preclude a bug in kernel mmc driver14:14
cehtehwhile i think there is no much point in raiding data,14:14
cehtehwould be little wasteful14:14
cehtehDocScrutinizer: do you think swap on md raid0 instead same priority would work better?14:15
cehtehi could try that14:15
cehteh(well possibly over a loop device)14:15
DocScrutinizerI think swap on uSD (actually not on / or /opt device) may bring some speed improvement when swap gets involved14:16
HurrianDocScrutinizer, it does improve responsiveness14:16
cehtehi tried, no noticeable benefits14:16
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cehtehNokia-N900:~# apt-cache search mdadm14:16
cehteh.. bah :P14:16
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cehtehHurrian: mind to port mdadm ?14:17
cehtehwell maybe its in easy-debian then one can use that14:17
Hurriancehteh: sudo debian \ apt-get install mdadm\ which mdadm14:17
Hurrianoh, we'll need to enable kernel drivers too14:18
cehtehpk may have it14:18
Hurrianit doesnt14:18
Hurrianneed to recompile14:18
Hurrianoh well14:18
cehtehok .. not for me then .. not that much interest14:18
Hurrianlemme set up scratchbox14:18
Hurrianthis'll take 9000 hours14:18
DocScrutinizerget me laz0rs while you're at it ;-P14:18
cehtehcompcache would be vastly more useful, put your efforts into that14:18
Hurriani have no idea what was actually enabled for power kernel config14:19
Hurriancompcache is available as a patch for 2.6.28, making me think that its one of the things just disabled until tested thoroughly14:20
DocScrutinizerwell it seems the config is one of the patches of this PK patchwork14:20
Hurrianah, finally, an excuse to delve into kernel configs of other architectures14:21
cehtehHurrian: yes. i would like if someone makes a package and help testing14:21
cehtehcompcache can be externally compiled and loaded, i just didnt tried yet14:21
Hurriansure, lemme install debian + scratchbox first14:22
cehtehsomeone reported it doesnt work when one uses the backing store, but skrew that, not needed14:22
Hurrianwhich mind you is already around 1GB in downloads14:22
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DocScrutinizerand while you're at it, you could also revert the useless nonsense possibly broken patch to lp5523 kernel driver14:22
cehtehcomcache, when working could be the next best thing after sliced bread14:22
Hurriancehteh, how much compressed ram does 256M hold ;)14:22
cehtehHurrian: you can prolly double the ram, depends on usage14:23
Hurrianthen again14:23
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Hurrianit's maemo and not android14:23
Hurrian512M compressed would be fine14:23
DocScrutinizerthank God14:23
godtrunksfinish with maemo14:24
cehtehHurrian: thats sensible14:24
cehtehi get compression ratios of about 50% or better on my laptop14:24
DocScrutinizerbtw seems harmattan has all the nifty ram/cache compression ootb iirc14:24
godtrunksi have uninstall android14:24
godtrunkswithout flashing14:24
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HurrianDocScrutinizer, is PK really responsible for the "notification LED goes dull after exposure to sunlight" bug?14:25
DocScrutinizerduh, you're the first14:25
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DocScrutinizererr, never heard of that bug14:25
Hurrianhmm lemme reword that14:25
Hurriani have the "device on" LED pattern on, and it turns very faint red after using the N900 in the sun. remedied by battery pull or leaving it in pocket14:26
cehtehmake compcache instance of lets say 300MB .. will eat at max approx 150MB ram, leaves 100MB uncompressed ram ...100+300 .. net result is about 400MB14:26
godtrunkswas very easy to unintall14:26
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DocScrutinizergodtrunks: and before you ask, see /topic14:26
MohammadAGHurrian, it affects all patterns14:26
MohammadAGI'm not sure why it happens, but it happens only in sunlight14:27
DocScrutinizerthat's mad14:27
Hurriangodtrunks, it was probably 'mount /dev/mmcblk1p2 /and && apt-get remove --purge multiboot multiboot-kernel-power nitdroid-kernel && rm -r /and'14:27
cehtehi always wondered why they dont use the ALS for dim he notification led .. maybe they tried and failed14:27
godtrunkslog in to root14:27
godtrunksmount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /and -o noatime14:28
DocScrutinizerHurrian: you're sure it's not a red warning indicator pattern to inform user about overtemp?14:28
godtrunksand then14:28
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm sure14:28
godtrunksthat was all14:28
HurrianDocScrutinizer, it's definitely not overheating14:28
MohammadAGI've encountered it many times at school14:28
DocScrutinizerso what else? ALS?14:28
Hurriandevice stays <45C, all the time14:28
Hurrianno overclocking, it's actually undervolteg14:29
MohammadAGf the temp sensor it's broken anyway14:29
cehtehthere is an overtempearture warning?14:29
cehtehi know pattern-error which is red blinking14:29
MohammadAGit explodes14:29
DocScrutinizercehteh: there's definitely a -EBAT14:29
Hurrianoh, and the best one ever: device malfunction, system shutdown14:29
DocScrutinizerHurrian: OCers are pitched and feathered here ;-P14:30
Hurrianwonder why the n900 came loaded with "safety functions", when the target market was rather obvious14:30
Hurrianthe symbian devices need watchdogs, not us14:31
cehtehbecause of that :)14:31
Hurrianhave you seen a 5800 lock up?14:31
cehtehno one overclocks a iphone :P14:31
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Hurriancehteh, you can turn off iphone's DVFS ;)14:31
Hurriannote that they're underclocked for a reason though14:31
Hurrianthe silicon is not high quality14:31
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: can't you debug what'S going on with LP553?14:32
DocScrutinizerwhen that mystical stuff happens14:32
Hurrianoh, regarding the ALS, it would be great if it didnt take 5 seconds to change brightness14:32
cehtehon my laptop it changes instantly14:33
cehtehi hate it when going by train and there are power poles thowing shadows 1 times a second while the train travels14:34
HurrianN900: delightfully tacky yet unrefined14:34
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# cat /var/lib/mce/mode14:34
cehtehwell instant but slow reaction would be nice, integrate the light over lets say 2-5 seconds14:34
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Hurrianhmm, we should put together a very long list of what grinds your gears wrt the n90014:36
SpeedEvilBugzilla for one.14:36
Hurriani think it was posted on tmo a while ago: it doesnt shoot bullets14:36
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ll /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-*14:37
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 36952 2010-07-29 14:30 /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so14:37
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 30772 2010-07-29 14:30 /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-simple.so14:37
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cehtehwhere is the source? ... lala14:37
cehtehals/simple is a config switch14:37
SpeedEvilOh - and not properly implementing linear write reconsolidating swap.14:38
SpeedEvilTo be fair - this wold be completely new code.14:38
cehtehsimple just doing constant brightness14:38
cehtehthats documented somewhere14:38
SpeedEvilBut it does cause a slowdown after several days for some users.14:38
DocScrutinizerpointer please14:38
cehtehuhm .. mce.ini?14:38
DocScrutinizeryeah, but nuttin documented there?14:39
cehtehyeah documented somewhere on .. wiki or some talk thread14:39
DocScrutinizero/ bbl14:39
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moZzoin nokia X6 can i have a handwriting application? I want to write my text msgs with my finger? is it possible?14:46
SpeedEvilSorry - completely off topic.14:48
SpeedEvilUnlikely anyone would know.14:48
SpeedEvilX6 isn't maemo.14:48
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moZzosorry i just made a mistake..14:49
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Siceloif x6 is symbian, try #symbian14:56
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* SpeedEvil wonders if there is any chance of warranty replacements of n900s getting n9s.16:31
andre__hehe, in that case I think mine could really break soon :)16:32
nid0break one in 2-3 months and find out, id like to know :D16:32
SpeedEvilMine is a bit broken.16:32
psycho_oreosits a gamble in which its probably best to not hold your breath :p16:34
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keriothe n9 has no keyboard :(16:36
kerioNOKIA, Y U NO SELL N95016:36
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psycho_oreosbecause of Flop, that's why16:37
crashanddiekerio, one word. Elop.16:37
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HurrianNOKIA, Y U USE AEGIS16:40
HurrianNOKIA, Y NO uSD SLOT IN N916:40
psycho_oreosbecause they don't trust the linux community (hint: some retarded owners in tmo)16:41
HurrianNOKIA, Y N9 DOESNT USE LiPo16:41
psycho_oreosbecause they want mimick Apple like every other damn android powered device16:41
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Hurriani think aegis and no SD slot only serve to gimp the device16:42
Hurrianuhh, lets see what are better words for it16:43
Hurrianlimit what the device can do, i guess16:43
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psycho_oreoswell to limit and to cripple (i.e. belittling maemo/meego community) the device16:44
Hurrianno s**t16:44
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psycho_oreosits sad really but inevitable16:45
Hurrianwith the whole aegis thing, might as well run wp7 on it16:45
Hurrianthen again16:45
Hurrianmicrosoft is not liking .net16:45
Hurrianwhich happens to be the core of wp716:45
Hurrianuhh, wp7's app platform16:46
psycho_oreosI'm sure there has to be a way around it, when DocScrutinizer pointed out that aegis page on nokia, I saw there was a few lines which looked like XML to disable aegis. Though I don't think its an easy fix but I'm sure with that little hack exploited, one could in theory disable and therefore eradicate aegis16:46
SpeedEvilYou can't simply disable aegis on the device.16:47
SpeedEvilAs I uderstad it.16:47
SpeedEvilYou can however boot a kernel with no aegis.16:48
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Hurrianit would suck if the UX depended on aegis to run16:48
psycho_oreosno you can't disable it within easy measures, but in theory it is possible to somehow get rid of it if you could manage to disable aegis16:48
SpeedEvilHow much hackery it requres to get the underlying apps to work in this state is a seperate question.16:48
Hurrianwonder if someone can just make a stubbed aegis to say "YES IT'S SECURE"16:49
psycho_oreosI thought aegis was just another software, lol it sounds like its as bad as SELinux16:49
ShadowJKHurrian, it's Lithium Polymer in N900, N9, etc16:49
SpeedEvilAegis is sort-of SELinux16:49
HurrianShadowJK, since when was it LiPo in BL-5J?16:49
fiferboySome of the stock applications (accounts, for example) depending on aegis being there16:49
fiferboyBut the rest of the system /shouldn't/ care16:49
SpeedEvilfiferboy: For example, does the dialer rely on it to store contacts?16:50
SpeedEvilOr stuff like that.16:50
fiferboySpeedEvil: Yeah, those are the answers we need16:50
ShadowJKHurrian, since they used a polymer to bind the contents together, instead of using a metal container to keep the contents pressed together16:50
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Hurriangreat, instead of closed programs, we now have closed programs with drm16:50
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SpeedEvilWe don't know that yet. There have been comments that it should work fine with aegis removed.16:51
fiferboyHurrian: But it *should* be possible to install open source alternatives, for example dialer16:51
Hurrianwell, we're going back to qt rewrites of system apps16:52
Hurrianthe hot steamy dump on the community continues...16:52
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GAN900I'm pretty sure MS is making them do it.16:58
ShadowJKA better question would be why Nokia isn't using the new improved Lithium Ion batteries.. But I guess they don't make them in Polymer version yet16:58
SpeedEvilYou mean fast charge?16:58
SpeedEvilSaft has some awesome cells (that you cannoy buy)16:59
SpeedEvilspecified for tens of thousands of cycles, and decades of service.16:59
jierowhy does OpenGL not supported by mobile graphics card...16:59
ShadowJKNo they can be charged to 4.35 and discharged to 2.5V (without "venting with flame" like current mainstream ones)16:59
ShadowJKPanasonic's NNP, Nickel based New Platform17:00
ShadowJKEven if they were made in Polymer version and BL-5J shape, we'd only get limited benefit from it, as we'd only be able to increase charge voltage, not decrease cutoff voltage :)17:01
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ShadowJKoh oops, Panasonic NNP wasn't one of those 4.35V cells17:01
SpeedEvilThe real issue I care about is aging17:03
SpeedEvilIf you don't implement stupid charger hardware, sticking to 4.2 isn't an issue17:03
ShadowJKWeird, Panasonic's NNP 18650 is specced to 2900mAH for 4.2-2.5V, LG Chem's ICR18650 C1 2800mAh 4.35V - 3V17:03
SpeedEvilIs that absolute maximum, or cyclic?17:04
GAN900When is somebody gonna hack swipe into Hildon Desktop?17:04
psycho_oreoswhen the source is available or someone else reverse engineers swipe17:05
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, no it's specced to operate between 3.00 - 4.35V. You don't get full rated capacity with 4.217:06
SpeedEvilI'd be very worried about capacity fade and aging at 4.3517:06
ShadowJKYeah they promise 300 cycles to 80%17:07
SpeedEvilHalf a megawatt-hour battery.17:07
ShadowJKprobably worse than 300 as Li-Polymer17:07
GAN900psycho_oreos, source is pretty irrelevant.17:07
GAN900Just reimplement the functionality.17:08
GAN900You can't backport it.17:08
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psycho_oreosGAN900: I'm not saying backport it, rather to incorporate the actual mechanisms of swipe functionality.17:09
* SpeedEvil idly wonders about compiz.17:10
ShadowJKargh, so many chemistries now17:11
* SpeedEvil wants AgPt.17:11
SpeedEvilA couple of tons should do.17:11
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ShadowJKLiCo, LiMnNi, LiMnCoMn, and too many variations of LiCo :/17:11
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psycho_oreoscan't blame them for being creative and experimenting which combinations work best ;)17:12
SpeedEvilNot quite.17:12
SpeedEvilIt's to avoid patent fees.17:13
* SpeedEvil assumes.17:13
psycho_oreoswell that could also be a possible case17:13
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GAN900psycho_oreos, the code wont just drop into Maemo.17:17
ShadowJKThey all have subtle differences in internal resistance, cycle life, and out-of-spec behaviour17:18
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psycho_oreosGAN900: that's what I meant :) you can't implement the functionality without knowing all the little tidbits. Source code doesn't exactly seem irrelevant here if you can't see how it works from source code unless you plan to create a lookalike functionality :)17:19
GAN900You can see how it works pretty easily just by using it.17:19
MohammadAGtechnically it's doable in hildon-desktop17:19
psycho_oreosyeah that's what you call: clean room reverse engineering17:20
psycho_oreoslooking at how it works and creating a `lookalike' != creating an exact clone basing on the source code17:20
psycho_oreosnot exactly clean room reverse engineering I should add, not without having a team of more than one in the first place :p17:21
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GAN900Yeah, wasn't looking to play a semantics game.17:21
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ysssi have a craving for oreo milkshake17:26
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NIN101abill_uk talking about reverse engineering maemo: "Well i tried even with my limited experiance of linux and i at least got some of the source listed". lol, this guy is...17:27
javispedroa genius17:27
ysssin need of some sort of help17:28
psycho_oreoslrn2ignore ;p17:28
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b-man`i'd hate to meet him in real life :P17:28
javispedrobut he's to be the next council chair!17:28
javispedrohe's going to make a rather large keynote in the next summit.17:29
SpeedEvil'what does the Q in QML stand for'17:29
psycho_oreosas in Qt Modelling Language17:29
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psycho_oreos*shrugs* I wouldn't know if that answer is right or not :)17:30
SpeedEvilI know - was referring to someone at meego conf.17:30
b-man`heh, i was thinking Qt Markup Language17:30
SpeedEvilQho actually did ask during  a presentation what the Q in Qt was17:30
ysssask trolltech17:31
psycho_oreossounds more like a Qt conf than meego conf :) throwing around somewhat obscure question17:31
SpeedEvilHe also asked what 'PNG' was.17:33
fiferboyI wondered if he got accepted for the N950 developer program... :)17:35
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DocScrutinizerHurrian: (<Hurrian> wonder if someone can just make a stubbed aegis to say "YES IT'S SECURE") forget it - that's not what aegis does18:09
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DocScrutinizeraegis is for example managing accounts, it's not like accounts manager is asking aegis "IS SYSTEM SECURE?"18:10
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DocScrutinizerand probably the Nokia account needed to make e.g. Map and Drive app work is impossible to "emulate" without aegis account management18:11
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DocScrutinizersame will probably apply for OTA updates18:12
DocScrutinizeryou quite possibly can get rid of aegis, but that will most likely mean you also will get rid of a lot of Nokia "proprietary" stuff18:13
DocScrutinizerso not really any difference to fremantle, just some apps like maybe dialer etc might be foss now but then rely on a lot of aegis functions so you still can't simply replace them by your own mod-o-fied version18:14
DocScrutinizerbbl again18:15
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psycho_oreosany of you guys tried links-hacked?18:41
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crashanddieI'm done for the week. Have a nice weekend all. Take care.20:10
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fusimy scud batteries have arrrived ^^20:55
fusichargin em up nao :D20:56
fusigot them from lucia lui20:56
fusirecommend to buy from them - very kind20:56
fusifree screen protector and free fast shipping ;D20:56
fusicant beleive they were so cheap20:56
fusithere must be a catch..20:56
fusii liked the customs workaround20:57
fusion the box20:57
fusi'business gift'20:57
ruskiethat doesn't tend to help much20:57
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ruskiebut there tends to be some limit on "personal" imports20:58
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ruskiebefore they charge you customs20:58
ruskieI know in .si they raised it up a lot like a year or so ago20:59
ruskiebefore that it was like 30 eur20:59
ruskienow it's like 10 times that or somethin21:00
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ruskiehmm interesting... importing of computer peripherals from the USA is customs free but you do need to pay the VAT for it apparently21:07
ruskieof course since the UK tends to do things it's own way most of the time there might be different stuff21:08
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RST38hruskie: which country?21:11
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ruskiewell that's fusi... but since it's all EU(SI or UK) the regs should generally be the same21:11
ruskiebut UK tends to do things a bit differently with some things21:12
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GAN900Like those silly 2-year warranty requirements which drive your prices way up. :P21:18
ruskieGAN900, frankly I wouldn't mind if that was enforced21:19
slonopotamusthat's because devices are so bad that they can't even survice for 1y?21:19
GAN900ruskie, you end up paying for it in the price of the device.21:19
ruskieslonopotamus, no... materials are produced in such a way os to fail after warranty+$rand21:19
ruskiewhere $rand tends to be less than 1 year21:20
ruskieGAN900, well if it lasts longer then sure no prob21:20
ruskieif it fails before that time anyway then great as well21:20
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slonopotamusruskie, that's wrong for at least tvs, wash machines, fridges and desktop/server computers21:21
ruskiefridge failed before 2 years warranty was up...21:22
ruskienew TVs no experencie yet... only just get them this year and they have a 5 year warranty21:22
slonopotamusdunno about new tvs. CRT ones live for 10+ years21:23
ruskiethey do21:23
ruskiewe have a 15 year old one that still works fine21:23
slonopotamusthat's waay longer than its warranty period21:23
slonopotamusbtw, cars too21:23
ruskiebut it was repaired some 3 times21:23
ruskiebut only the scart connectors really needed to be resoldered21:24
ruskiewell the entire connector board but that imho is minor21:24
slonopotamuswhat i want to say. there products that last much longer than their warranty.21:25
ruskiethere are, were and will be21:25
ruskiethe prob is that there is also a ton of crap products that don't21:25
ruskieand that is what those regs are for21:25
fusii must be lucky21:26
slonopotamusi think it would be good for customers if vendors were forced to make longer-living things21:26
fusinever had anything other than harddrives mechanically fail on me21:26
ruskieI had a deathstar fail in 3 months21:26
fusihehe i had a deathstar too21:26
fusiand it died21:26
fusistill got it ^^21:27
fusistill works if i place it on its side, mostly21:27
ShadowJKI heard places like best buy don't want to sell things with long warranties, because then they can't sell their warranty extensions, which are many times more profitable than selling gadgets21:27
ruskieI took it back and was replaced with a 20gb one21:27
ruskiewhich didn't have the issues of the 15gb one21:27
fusii had the 80gb21:27
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ruskiebut hell I even got random failures from seagate and wd hdds recently21:28
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fusiim all on spinpoint f3's atm21:29
ruskieone seagate failed @work like 3 weeks ago21:29
ruskiedata recovary was 900 eur21:30
fusithis battery hasnt blown up yet ^^21:30
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fusino backups?21:30
ruskienot in this case21:30
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ruskiedue to boss telling that person to not backup to server due to sensitive data21:30
ruskiebut the recovery was 100%21:30
ruskieso we spent a 100eur extra to get an external drive21:31
ruskieand now they do backups manually to it21:31
SpeedEviluExtremely lucky.21:31
fusiin government its a bit different ^^21:32
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ruskiewell don't need to worry about work stuff for the next two weeks21:33
fusiholiday? :D21:33
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fusifreaking love my n90021:34
fusigonna drive out a feidl in the middle of nowhere in a min21:35
fusiand remote in and do some work while the sun sets21:35
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fusithinking of getting a monitor for my car21:35
fusidoing some sort of control panel conversion21:36
fusitouch screen centre console power by n90021:36
DocScrutinizerruskie: ever heard of encryption?21:36
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Chiku|dcwhat device is after n900 ?21:37
fusiheh norly n950 apparently21:37
ruskieDocScrutinizer, wrt to?21:37
Chiku|dcN9 is out  september, but it's not n900 serie right?21:38
DocScrutinizerbackup of sensitive data21:38
fusinope dont think so21:38
fusin9 runs symbian doesnt it?21:38
fusino keyb either afaik21:38
ruskieDocScrutinizer, got enough problems with people understanding passwords etc...21:38
ruskieeven though this is an IT outfit... most tend to be of the type "shiny"21:38
fusii know what you mean21:39
fusiwe got a whole infosec dept dedicated to beating some common bloody sense into users21:39
DocScrutinizerruskie: asym encryption prior to image backup is perfectly simple and scriptable21:39
ruskiemy suggestion of lets bring emails intenrally and stop messing with an external provider are ignored21:40
fusino, do not write your passwords down on a postit note stuck to your monitor21:40
ruskieDocScrutinizer, the prob is person won't store to nas21:40
ruskiedue to the specific instructions from the boss21:40
DocScrutinizerruskie: in case you need to restore, the boss hets the privkey out of his shoe21:40
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fusiinside the heel21:41
fusiand you have to eat it once finished with21:41
ruskiewhen I suggested that our laptop users start using encryption on laptops it was ignored21:41
DocScrutinizerheck, the sysop needs to do that, not the users21:41
ruskieor specifically... we don't care/want that21:41
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ruskieDocScrutinizer, yeah I'm it... but unless the boss OKays it I can't do much21:42
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DocScrutinizeryeah I once had a job at Siemens where I copied integers from a excel sheet to c code constants, 2 weeks. When I was done I started over from beginning, with next iteration of data. Did that like 3 months before I quit the job. Nobody ever thought about rather writing a script for it21:44
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ruskieDocScrutinizer, hehe21:45
fluxdocscrutinizer, nobody, not even you?-)21:46
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DocScrutinizerme *thought* about it first day21:46
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DocScrutinizerbut then I was a freelancer21:46
fluxmaybe you could've sold an application to do that.21:47
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flux..for the next guy to do it, not for the corporation ;)21:47
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ruskieI already automate as much as I can21:48
ruskiebut that's in my nature... I'm lazy21:48
ruskieso I tend to also be efficient21:48
fusihuman nature21:48
ruskiemeans I can be more lazy afterwards21:48
DocScrutinizerruskie: now you know why I quit the job21:49
ruskiebut yeah did have a data entry job as a student... DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT EVER AGAIN21:49
ruskienow each time I get some data I go: hmm how to script this21:49
ruskieand tend to do it21:49
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ruskieneed a load test for a web service... with random input... hmm zsh+curl works wonders ;)21:50
ruskieif nothing else to setup the input for jmeter then21:50
DocScrutinizerbtw you probaly *all* heard the result if my data copying back when, in some car with a navi built by Siemens (most original navis are)21:51
fusibtw, ive hacked the libpurple-twitter-protocol plugin to work with - for ppl who dont want to wait for full oauth support21:51
fusihehe DocScrutinizer21:52
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fusisiemens used to manage our network21:53
fusiwe ended up moving it all in house cause they were too expensive/unreliable :((21:53
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thomicfusi: ? who managed your network ?21:55
thomicSiemens is managing networks?21:56
thomicwhich part?21:56
fusiim talking major infrastructure21:56
thomicIT Solutions?21:56
thomicwhich country?21:56
thomicoh well yeah think that was a time ago21:57
thomicsome years?21:57
fusilast year we switched to in house21:57
thomicbecause they are now french ...21:57
thomicSIS selled to french supplier Atos21:57
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thomici think21:57
fusiatos origin21:57
fusithose scumbags21:58
fusiwanted me to move to darlington21:58
fusifor 24k/pa21:58
fusitold em where to stick it21:58
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thomicyay siemens and atos (now together) are very aggressive in "Public Sector" - Deals21:59
fusithey do get everywhere22:00
fusifingers in all the pies22:00
thomicthere are very cool examples of local and in-house strategies like in Munich where they rolled-out LiMux(their own Linux distro)22:00
thomicin whole city government etc.22:00
thomicjust a few win-pcs were left22:00
thomicwhere they was binded to "special software"22:00
fusiwe are atm on user-side22:01
thomicbut now i think they failed hard22:01
fusicrap like mcafee safeboot22:01
thomicmy last comp. got i think ... yea "TrendMicro Sec. Suite"22:01
thomicin the whole comp.22:01
thomicand it wasn't that little22:02
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thomic < Information22:02
fusii doubt thos in power here have the guts to do something like that22:03
fusi spineless managers ^^22:03
fusigood business22:03
fusidont get me startee22:03
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fusirightio im off22:05
fusicya l8rs o/22:05
thomichrm i think why atos will pay only 24k(pounds?)/pa22:05
thomiccya l8or22:05
thomicmaybe they have to pay there "teambuilding foo"22:05
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* ShadowJK was adding benchmark results to his flash benchmark spreadsheet just now23:13
ShadowJKI noticed I have benchmarked a Sandisk Class 4 MicroSDHC at 12 MegaBytes/sec sequential write speed. If it was any other manufacturer, they'd have labeled it "Class 12 OMG OMG" or something :)23:14
GAN900That's why they cost what they do.23:15
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MOUDHey all23:56
MOUDhow can I know which power kernel is being used?23:56
OkropNickmaybe uname -a23:59

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