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| DocScrutinizer | moin javispedro | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| javispedro | moo. | 00:02 |
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| vi__ | :q | 00:26 |
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| javispedro | wth is this? http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1379/abillsunset.jpg | 00:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf?! | 00:34 |
| b-man` | hey DocScrutinizer, long time no see :) | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: how the heck you found this weird riddle? | 00:36 |
| javispedro | it was on Stskeeps' twitter feed. | 00:36 |
| javispedro | no idea where he got it from. | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | gnhnhnhn | 00:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, there are probably just 2 possibilities: either stskeeps created it, or abill_uk sent it to stskeeps | 00:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | either way it's weird | 00:40 |
| MohammadAG | *dramatic slide-in* or stskeeps and abill_uk are the same person | 00:40 |
| Atarii | any idea why MyDocs is suddenly Read-Only ? | 00:43 |
| ShadowJK | filesystem corruption | 00:44 |
| Atarii | :( | 00:44 |
| Atarii | thanks | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | Connect to PC, copy everything from it as backup, run chkdsk or fsck on it | 00:44 |
| Atarii | think I'll just give it a vanilla flash | 00:44 |
| ShadowJK | hints might exist in output of 'dmesg' | 00:45 |
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| Atarii | ah yes, Filesystem error | 00:46 |
| Atarii | thanks for the pointers | 00:46 |
| Atarii | I'll wipe celan and restore via BackupMenu | 00:46 |
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| MohammadAG | err | 00:52 |
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| MohammadAG | that might not be the smartest move | 00:52 |
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| MohammadAG | just chkdsk or fsck it | 00:52 |
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| Atarii | too late | 00:56 |
| Atarii | :( | 00:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually if you would've flashed eMMC then restore /opt and /home directly via backupmenu, you probably also would've been fine | 01:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even a mkfs.vfat on MyDocs was way faster and a bit smarter :-) | 01:24 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: Talking of TMO, SD69 seems to be going off on one; and the trolls & conspiracy nuts then join in on this fun thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75431 | 01:36 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: Alternates between apps.meego.com being Nokia's fault, Intel's fault or a "M$" ploy to kill MeeGo | 01:36 |
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| MohammadAG | jacekowski, know of a place for the wl1271 datasheet? | 01:49 |
| MohammadAG | also, did you apply for the N950? | 01:49 |
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| Venemo | Jaffa, hmmm | 01:50 |
| Venemo | Jaffa, what is the truth? | 01:50 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: I did, but I never heard back on whether Gentoo was acceptable or just MeeGo | 01:51 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: That LF are risk averse with limited technical resources, but a strong legal department who are used to dealing with corporations, and the thought of individual contributors uploading and distributing things directly through something they are responsible for sent shivers up the lawyers' backs and they nixed the whole thing. | 01:51 |
| Venemo | meh | 01:52 |
| javispedro | what does #ff mean in twitter btw? | 01:52 |
| MohammadAG | follow friday | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Follow friday | 01:53 |
| javispedro | ah, I see it's a common thing. | 01:53 |
| MohammadAG | you list your best followers | 01:53 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, mm was a trend a year ago, music mondays | 01:53 |
| Venemo | Jaffa, why am I feeling that this is ridiculous on the LF's part? can't they just make us all sign something like we will accept all risks and take responsibility for our shit? | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: how's a simple URL that important with respect to *anything*? | 01:57 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: Well, since no part of the MeeGo leadership is particularly communicative on this (or, in fact, any) topic - leaving it to the Apps team (X-Fade & lbt) - we don't know. | 01:57 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, no idea | 01:57 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: I'm sure that's been put to them, but in many ways this is actually useful in really bringing out the problems in the MeeGo Project | 01:57 |
| Venemo | Jaffa, I see... any chance of also solving those problems? | 01:58 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: Our armchairing lawyering can only go so far in Devil's Advocating (can I verbify that? ;-)) possibly inexplicable behaviour | 01:58 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: I'm trying, waiting on some replies to emails. | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and in the end: who the F* is LF? (i know i know, linux foundation, but nevertheless...) | 01:58 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: Some stuff will be in next week's MWKN. | 01:58 |
| Venemo | Jaffa, I'm crossing my fingers for you | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | what did they do for me that I can't live without? | 01:59 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: More stuff from me personally will probably go public at some point <shrug/> | 01:59 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: A "wonderful" MeeGo Conference keynote about how great Android is? | 01:59 |
| Venemo | Jaffa, okay :) | 01:59 |
| Venemo | lol. | 01:59 |
| javispedro | hypnotic spires included | 01:59 |
| javispedro | *spirals | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | r33b.net | 02:00 |
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| javispedro | I do not think they fear the patents perse. | 02:01 |
| javispedro | making the math with previous "maemo devices", the community repo will be the defacto store | 02:02 |
| javispedro | and thus when any kind of shit hits the fan (and not only patents), it will spread all over the LF. | 02:02 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Doubt it for Harmattan given the lack of the built-in package explorer. | 02:02 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: But I suspect that's part of it. They're not an organisation built to scale. | 02:03 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa: having to add extras-devel didn't stop anyone | 02:03 |
| javispedro | well, not anyone who had internet visibiliyt that is . | 02:03 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: True | 02:03 |
| javispedro | it might have stopped my granny, if she ever returned from the grave to buy a n900... | 02:04 |
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| * javispedro wishes he could write words on this document that I have to write with the same fluidity I do on this window =( | 02:05 | |
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| javispedro | going back to the topic, I cannot avoid but think of how the LF would have handled the emulators fiasco. | 02:06 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: Very true | 02:08 |
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| javispedro | btw, the emulator story is also one of exemplar behavior from nokia. Compare to Google. | 02:14 |
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| nox- | emulators fiasco? whats that about? | 02:15 |
| javispedro | (now someone will appear and mention that due to the emulators story, the nintendo copyright czar cursed Nokia with his old black magic arts and that's why Elop came to power) | 02:15 |
| nox- | oh copyright fighting? | 02:15 |
| Jaffa | nox-: http://maemo.org/community/council/missing_emulators_will_be_back_at_maemo-org/ | 02:18 |
| nox- | oh | 02:18 |
| nox- | thats too bad :/ | 02:19 |
| javispedro | nox-: there was some video from nokia where someone played snes on a n900, nintendo even made a public statement about it. | 02:19 |
| javispedro | was this the google appstore, the apps silently removed and the accounts permanently blocked. | 02:20 |
| nox- | oh well... | 02:20 |
| nox- | heh | 02:20 |
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| merlin1991 | thanks doc, now I'm stuck in an infinite hypnotoad loop | 02:21 |
| GAN900 | What fun am I missing? | 02:22 |
| GAN900 | Was stuck in XChat connection migration. | 02:22 |
| merlin1991 | lf bashing and hypnotoad | 02:22 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: Troll on TMO claims I'm not enthusiastic for Maemo, maemo.org, Nokia, whatever. | 02:22 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Yeah, and as merlin1991 says some LF exploratory "WTF" comments | 02:23 |
| merlin1991 | Jaffa: could you link the trollpost? | 02:24 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, kids and their lack of history education. | 02:25 |
| GAN900 | If only they knew. . . . | 02:25 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, where would you put your hours investment at this point? | 02:25 |
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| Jaffa | merlin1991: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1064292#post1064292 start from there | 02:26 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: Pandora's obviously the way to go. They get it, penguinbait told me so. | 02:26 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, I've just had a really bad thought. What if Mike Cane was *right*?! | 02:27 |
| javispedro | pandora as in the openpandora I know? | 02:27 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: Yeah | 02:28 |
| javispedro | gotta say that I was thinking earlier today that it is probably easier to get an n950 than a openpandora | 02:28 |
| * Jaffa 's going to design his own hardware, build his own OS - it'll be great. | 02:28 | |
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| javispedro | hey, hasn't Smoku just started doing that? :) | 02:32 |
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| Jaffa | Off-the-shelf h/w AFAICT | 02:33 |
| ds3 | hurrah... more hw | 02:33 |
| javispedro | when I saw it I thought "he's gone crazy already from reading too much abill_uk". Then realized the fact I think he's crazy is the reason I will never make any money =) | 02:35 |
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| javispedro | so I now say, go ahead and good luck :) | 02:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: Jaffa: GAN900: I'm not following pandora since quite some time now, but recently heard from somebody who *really* knows the market and what's going on as he bashed pandora for betraying and robbing people, and the whole thing turned from an enthusiastic project of some guys who had no clue about hw manufacturing into a big hoax that self-supports as it's impossible to get out of the story now | 02:43 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Same thing as happened in the RISC OS world about loads of different tablets. | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | s/tablets/laptops/ | 02:45 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: DocScrutinizer: Same thing as happened in the RISC OS world about loads of different laptops. | 02:45 |
| javispedro | tablets have not replaced laptopts dammit! | 02:45 |
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| javispedro | Jaffa: remove that idea steve jobs has implanted on you via ipad from your subconscious | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | and aiui pandora hasn't shipped a single device yet, but still holds down-payments of a number of customers | 02:46 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: oh they have shipped devices | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | those guys *really* are in some nasty pinch | 02:47 |
| javispedro | but few, and there have entire defective batches, ... | 02:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mhm, so they try to take it to step 2 of the pyramid system now? paying pandora1 with downpayments for pandora2 devices? | 02:48 |
| javispedro | I do not see malice though | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, maybe they may ask their paying customers to pay again, then get one working and one defective pandora1 | 02:50 |
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| javispedro | they did start a secondary project | 02:51 |
| javispedro | I remember some fuss about drivers for maemo even | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | the down payment for pandora1 was excusable as they didn't know what they did, now they *are* knowing what they do and still ask for down payments? | 02:51 |
| javispedro | it was a bt controller designed for smartphones in mind | 02:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I wonder when they will buy their tickets to mexico | 02:52 |
| nox- | and i wonder if there are some people that dont want them to succeed... :/ | 02:53 |
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| nox- | (i.e. are all the failed batches really accidental?) | 02:54 |
| nox- | </paranoid> | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet there are always such people | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: building hw is an art, you have to pay a lot of education fees | 02:55 |
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| nox- | hm | 02:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just some hours ago we speculated how many defective hw called N950 Nokia has built, and you'd think Nokia knows their business with building hardware | 02:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | OM never built any phone hardware that could be attributed as "working" | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | and they (as I've not yet been part of OM at that time) practiced like 15 versions of Neo 1973 and at least 9 versions of Neo FR | 03:00 |
| * GeneralAntilles yawns. | 03:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: sorry, I know it's a boring old story | 03:00 |
| * SpeedEvil bounces while mostly asleep. | 03:00 | |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, oops, sorry. That was a "good morning" yawn. Not a mean one. :P | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 03:01 |
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| javispedro | hate to say but it's true, except for the threads linked there I've mostly stopped reading TMO | 03:06 |
| javispedro | never thought the day would arrive. | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | All we need is the right captchas. | 03:07 |
| javispedro | *linked here | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | same here | 03:08 |
| Jaffa | Same three | 03:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~tmo | 03:11 |
| infobot | i guess tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I liked the original version better | 03:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just forgot what's the "o" been for in the original ~tmo | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~forget tmo | 03:12 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: i forgot tmo | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~tmo | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo tmo | 03:12 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: there's no such factoid as tmo | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~liskeys tmo | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~listkeys tmo | 03:12 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'tmo' by key (19 of 30): artmoney ;; bitmonk ;; hostmode ;; ptkfunc tk_strictmotif ;; instmon ;; svgatextmode ;; weathercode htmo ;; atmosphere ;; toolbox _textmode ;; qtmozilla ;; hostmode-powered ;; lart-tmo-lemming ;; hotmole ;; postmodernism ;; oldtest patmos ;; wmnetmon ;; netmon ;; knetmon ;; ltmodem. | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~unforget tmo | 03:13 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: Successfully recovered 'tmo'. Have fun now. | 03:13 |
| javispedro | seems that today is Android spanking day, patents, open governance, anticompetitive practices.. | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, I feel like spanking evrybody and all today :-P | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~spank tmo trolls | 03:14 |
| * infobot bends tmo trolls over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on tmo trolls's pasty white buttocks. | 03:14 | |
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| FireFly|n900 | It seems the input auto-completion doesn't pay attention to the 'written words' dictionary for me; can I enable this somehow? | 03:25 |
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| FireFly|n900 | I can't find anything relevant under "Settings" | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | written words dictionary? | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | you mean the "history" | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | nm, I can't help anyway, as I decided word completion is useless and switched it off on day2 | 03:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | auto-capitalization was off at day3 | 03:33 |
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| * GeneralAntilles fondly recalls the ITt days. | 03:38 | |
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| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: cause of abill_uk? | 03:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Back when it was the #maemo of its day. | 03:48 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Gold_Hat | 03:49 |
| javispedro | am I right if I say that abill_uk is finally the best troll tmo has ever had? | 03:49 |
| ysss | please define 'best' | 03:49 |
| javispedro | tmo/itt | 03:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want one? | 03:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Darius2006 was pretty epic. | 03:50 |
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| javispedro | I am sure he was permanently banned | 03:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | best by which metrics? | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems nowadays even the trolls are not all uniform on their aims. Some obviously have invented speedtrolling, trying to get banned as fast as possible | 04:03 |
| ysss | they've picked the wrong board, if that's their sole aim | 04:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe that's the thrill of speedtrolling, it's pointless on a board with tough moderation | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | as tmo wouldn't need any trolls at all to go OT on every thread and also become a flameware just so often, probably getting banned is the only measurable success for trolls on tmo. It might easily be the birth location of the idea of speedtrolling | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | please don't quote me on that, as "[I'm] not god you know" | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | </quote name=abill_uk> | 04:16 |
| Jaffa | Shock. | 04:16 |
| Jaffa | I thought he was. | 04:16 |
| Jaffa | misterc seems to think I might be. | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I, err ME | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | "youre not god you know" | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | "youre asking for your own trouble... bla bla" | 04:17 |
| Jaffa | Oh. I know you're some form of deity. | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1061368&postcount=14 | 04:18 |
| Jaffa | But I'm leaning towards Lucifer ;-p | 04:18 |
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| ysss | It'd be a real shame if the trolls actually affect the outcome of public discussions of the future of tmo though | 04:20 |
| * lew Working Time | 04:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer | trolls will affect the future directly, no need and no worries about them affecting any discussion about the future | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | They absolutely should affect the outcome. | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Some means of stopping the community becoming toxic is require. | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | while others are discussing tmo's future (though I didn't notice, luckily), trolls *are* the future of tmo | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the present, I have to add | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: you missed the best part of that thread, as sjgadsby ruthlessly deleted posts and banned one troll (alas only one) | 04:26 |
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| Jaffa | TMO can basically be boiled down to "announcements" and "weird little cool hacks" and then "EVERY LITTLE OTHER PIECE OF SHIT" | 04:28 |
| Jaffa | Hopefully we find enough of the first two categories to put into MWKN that the rest (about 90% when I look at it) can be ignored | 04:28 |
| Jaffa | And if the requirement is to have a forum for application authors to engage with their users, and people to share cool hacks; maybe a TMO restructure could solve that. | 04:29 |
| ysss | it should just be made legitimate.. a fork of tmo: trolls.maemo.org | 04:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a mirror, where all posts of members with a karma of <100 are redirected to :-P | 04:31 |
| Jaffa | :) | 04:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Slight flaw. | 04:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Trolls get Karma. | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ltt thanks | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know | 04:31 |
| SpeedEvil | If they troll right. | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what the frown button riginally was meant for, to neutralize Itt thanks with Itt-antithanks | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | but for the mirror idea it should be sth better than that | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I think post options have to become a value, I.E. you have to earn options and you can't have infinite amount of them | 04:34 |
| Jaffa | Posting ability related to thanksness? | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | sth like that | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | also to mere age | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Newbs don't get vowels/ | 04:35 |
| Jaffa | Eventually, moving towards /. moderation and default posting scores (in some ways) | 04:35 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I wouldn't bother suggesting it, Reggie seems to have disappeared. | 04:36 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: see, for example, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3829 | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, if you get only one post per day free, and you can't accumulate more post options than you got weeks on your account, trolls would quickly feel pissed | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you could earn a new option for each post that gets thanked by enough senior members | 04:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: sorry, I don't get the point | 04:42 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: A feature is already developed and requires turning on. It was one of the original requirements for FMC and one of the justifications for vBulletin (closed source) was that it could do email integration. It was sat on for ages over concern of "server load". MeeGo IT team eager to use it and now server move has completed nothing should stand in its way | 04:44 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: But Reggie keeps disappearing and not answering/responding to pokes about it. | 04:44 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: So, developing a whole new commenting/posting system seems... unlikely. | 04:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | and tbh I'm just doing smalltalk as I couldn't care less about tmo future. tmo is dead, and I don't think I'm smart enough to revive it | 04:45 |
| * Jaffa nods | 04:46 | |
| Jaffa | Anyway, bed time. I've been too tired to go to bed, but it's nearly 3am so I should. | 04:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves | 04:46 | |
| SpeedEvil | "" | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Night all. | 04:47 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves again | 04:47 | |
| * DocScrutinizer says n8 2 | 04:47 | |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: enjoy your last untroubled dreams :-D It's frustrating to have an awesome shiny but basically useless piece of hardware sitting on your desk and staring at you every day :-P | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to do more UI base stuff. | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | So I figure I can split doing the less involved stuff too. | 04:49 |
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| godtrunks | cehteh? | 07:22 |
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| Termana | good morning | 08:24 |
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| godtrunks | morning | 09:04 |
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| UltrA420 | hi...anybody use N900 here? | 09:34 |
| hiemanshu | naah, we all have iPhones | 09:34 |
| Sampppa_ | :D | 09:35 |
| UltrA420 | what~~ | 09:35 |
| UltrA420 | are you kidding ? | 09:35 |
| hiemanshu | naah | 09:35 |
| Sampppa_ | no | 09:35 |
| hiemanshu | I am serious | 09:35 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a android | 09:35 |
| UltrA420 | how could it be...i thought only N900 and N8?0 support maemo | 09:35 |
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| hiemanshu | Sampppa_: did you try the new angry birds on the iPad 2? | 09:35 |
| hiemanshu | its lovely | 09:35 |
| SpeedEvil | If you pop up in a channel, and ask a silly question... | 09:35 |
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| hiemanshu | SpeedEvil: android meh, get an iPhone | 09:35 |
| Sampppa_ | hiemanshu: i have got enough of angry birds already :) | 09:36 |
| hiemanshu | hah ok | 09:36 |
| Sampppa_ | hiemanshu: but new Skype is good for ipad2 :) | 09:36 |
| hiemanshu | yeah | 09:36 |
| hiemanshu | and FB enabler :D | 09:36 |
| UltrA420 | anybody could suggest another webos game? i have installed nsfu already..i want another | 09:36 |
| hiemanshu | if you buy an iPhone try, plants vs zombies | 09:36 |
| Sampppa_ | hiemanshu: do i know you? How did u know i have ipad2? :D | 09:37 |
| Termana | He knew because of the way you walk and the way you talk | 09:38 |
| Termana | Just kidding! :p | 09:38 |
| Sampppa_ | lol :) | 09:38 |
| hiemanshu | Sampppa_: wild guess :P | 09:38 |
| hiemanshu | and I remember you speaking about one | 09:38 |
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| Sampppa_ | hiemanshu: on IRC? | 09:38 |
| hiemanshu | yes | 09:38 |
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| Sampppa_ | hiemanshu: i must have been drunk cos i cant remember :) | 09:39 |
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| ysss | i bet when things turn for the better, abill will be the first to take credit for it | 09:39 |
| Termana | shite | 09:40 |
| Termana | this is a problem | 09:40 |
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| UltrA420 | dear hiemanshu ,thank you for your advise. but i don't like plants vs zombies. i hvae already played this game on pc for thounds of times | 09:40 |
| Termana | Damn BNC is reconnecting me for some reason | 09:40 |
| UltrA420 | join #dota | 09:42 |
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| godtrunks | cehteh? | 10:30 |
| wjt | sooo. is there anything that I can do about Sojourner 0.2.4 not being imported to extras-devel, despite building fine? The conference starts tomorrow … | 10:37 |
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| godtrunks | when it's the conference?? | 10:46 |
| wjt | godtrunks: “the conference” == Desktop Summit 2011 in Berlin, in my case :) | 10:48 |
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| RST38h | Goo moorning all | 10:59 |
| merlin1991 | morning | 11:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wjt: ping X-Fade | 11:08 |
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| godtrunks | new stuff for maemo??:D | 11:10 |
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| wjt | X-Fade: hello. any idea why http://maemo.org/packages/view/sojourner/ has not been added to extras-devel? | 11:32 |
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| Atarii | So I got metasploit running on my N900 but it takes 4 years to start up. Anyone used this before? | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hardly, all of the early adopters are just halfway thru startup | 11:57 |
| Termana | lol | 11:59 |
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| Arkenoi | haha | 12:04 |
| Arkenoi | what did you expect on 256Mb? | 12:05 |
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| RST38h | http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-831 | 12:33 |
| RST38h | Hohoho | 12:33 |
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| godtrunks | cehteh? | 12:36 |
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| Hurrian | hmm | 12:45 |
| Hurrian | raid0 mmcblk* -- can we do it? | 12:46 |
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| godtrunks | problems? | 12:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: intriguing idea, but prolly overkill | 13:05 |
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| cehteh | Hurrian: yes, but kernel has a bug on concurrent access, wont be faster :/ | 13:08 |
| cehteh | i tried raiding swap (same prio) the device doesnt become faster but more unreliable | 13:08 |
| cehteh | godtrunks: what? | 13:08 |
| godtrunks | need some help | 13:10 |
| godtrunks | :D | 13:10 |
| godtrunks | lter u r? | 13:10 |
| godtrunks | l8er u r? | 13:10 |
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| crashanddie | godtrunks, speak normally | 13:10 |
| godtrunks | i'm at work | 13:11 |
| crashanddie | and? | 13:11 |
| crashanddie | does that prevent you to write in proper English? | 13:11 |
| godtrunks | i can't speak now | 13:11 |
| ysss | heh | 13:11 |
| frals | then dont speak? | 13:11 |
| godtrunks | have break in 20 min | 13:11 |
| crashanddie | make my day. | 13:11 |
| crashanddie | Be a troll. | 13:12 |
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| godtrunks | no.. | 13:12 |
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| godtrunks | i want to remove gingerbread from my phone | 13:12 |
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| godtrunks | it;s in my system.. | 13:13 |
| godtrunks | i create another partition | 13:14 |
| godtrunks | i want to remove it | 13:15 |
| godtrunks | but how? | 13:15 |
| godtrunks | can u hlp me? | 13:16 |
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| robbiethe1st | Uh, ask on the forums? | 13:22 |
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| godtrunks | .. | 13:28 |
| godtrunks | can't help me? | 13:28 |
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| Cor-Ai | short skirts and hard wind <3 | 13:33 |
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| godtrunks | so, how i remove it? | 13:34 |
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| godtrunks | cehteh? | 13:43 |
| cehteh | reflash your device, combined and emmc :D | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, why didn't I think about that obvious answer? :-D | 13:46 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: no idea... how about eating popcorn for once? | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flashing | 13:48 |
| infobot | i guess maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 13:48 |
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| cehteh | we need a flash image for µSD as well .. to ease support | 13:49 |
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| godtrunks | tha'ts bad.. | 14:04 |
| godtrunks | that's bad.. | 14:04 |
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| godtrunks | and it's no other way? | 14:05 |
| merlin1991 | godtrunks: in theory you should be able to remove the partition and expand the old one as long as the partition you want to delete is at the end of the physical space | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | just do the reverse procedure you used to create it | 14:10 |
| Hurrian | hmm, anyone still here interested in raid? | 14:11 |
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| Hurrian | i think the bug was in swapon though | 14:11 |
| Hurrian | a real striped device is probably better | 14:11 |
| godtrunks | ok | 14:12 |
| godtrunks | wish me luck :)) | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | we might be interested as soon as you report great success | 14:12 |
| godtrunks | i do it after backup | 14:13 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: try and report :) | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: and yes I think there was a flaw in swapon as well | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | this doesn't preclude a bug in kernel mmc driver | 14:14 |
| cehteh | while i think there is no much point in raiding data, | 14:14 |
| cehteh | would be little wasteful | 14:14 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: do you think swap on md raid0 instead same priority would work better? | 14:15 |
| cehteh | i could try that | 14:15 |
| cehteh | (well possibly over a loop device) | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think swap on uSD (actually not on / or /opt device) may bring some speed improvement when swap gets involved | 14:16 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, it does improve responsiveness | 14:16 |
| cehteh | i tried, no noticeable benefits | 14:16 |
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| cehteh | Nokia-N900:~# apt-cache search mdadm | 14:16 |
| cehteh | Nokia-N900:~# | 14:16 |
| cehteh | .. bah :P | 14:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 14:17 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: mind to port mdadm ? | 14:17 |
| cehteh | well maybe its in easy-debian then one can use that | 14:17 |
| Hurrian | cehteh: sudo debian \ apt-get install mdadm\ which mdadm | 14:17 |
| cehteh | :) | 14:17 |
| Hurrian | oh, we'll need to enable kernel drivers too | 14:18 |
| cehteh | pk may have it | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | it doesnt | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | need to recompile | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | oh well | 14:18 |
| cehteh | ok .. not for me then .. not that much interest | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | lemme set up scratchbox | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | this'll take 9000 hours | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | get me laz0rs while you're at it ;-P | 14:18 |
| cehteh | compcache would be vastly more useful, put your efforts into that | 14:18 |
| Hurrian | i have no idea what was actually enabled for power kernel config | 14:19 |
| Hurrian | compcache is available as a patch for 2.6.28, making me think that its one of the things just disabled until tested thoroughly | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | well it seems the config is one of the patches of this PK patchwork | 14:20 |
| Hurrian | ah, finally, an excuse to delve into kernel configs of other architectures | 14:21 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: yes. i would like if someone makes a package and help testing | 14:21 |
| cehteh | compcache can be externally compiled and loaded, i just didnt tried yet | 14:21 |
| Hurrian | sure, lemme install debian + scratchbox first | 14:22 |
| cehteh | someone reported it doesnt work when one uses the backing store, but skrew that, not needed | 14:22 |
| Hurrian | which mind you is already around 1GB in downloads | 14:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and while you're at it, you could also revert the useless nonsense possibly broken patch to lp5523 kernel driver | 14:22 |
| cehteh | comcache, when working could be the next best thing after sliced bread | 14:22 |
| Hurrian | cehteh, how much compressed ram does 256M hold ;) | 14:22 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: you can prolly double the ram, depends on usage | 14:23 |
| Hurrian | then again | 14:23 |
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| Hurrian | it's maemo and not android | 14:23 |
| Hurrian | 512M compressed would be fine | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | thank God | 14:23 |
| godtrunks | finish with maemo | 14:24 |
| godtrunks | thx | 14:24 |
| godtrunks | >:D< | 14:24 |
| cehteh | Hurrian: thats sensible | 14:24 |
| cehteh | i get compression ratios of about 50% or better on my laptop | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw seems harmattan has all the nifty ram/cache compression ootb iirc | 14:24 |
| godtrunks | i have uninstall android | 14:24 |
| godtrunks | without flashing | 14:24 |
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| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, is PK really responsible for the "notification LED goes dull after exposure to sunlight" bug? | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, you're the first | 14:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, never heard of that bug | 14:25 |
| Hurrian | hmm lemme reword that | 14:25 |
| Hurrian | i have the "device on" LED pattern on, and it turns very faint red after using the N900 in the sun. remedied by battery pull or leaving it in pocket | 14:26 |
| cehteh | make compcache instance of lets say 300MB .. will eat at max approx 150MB ram, leaves 100MB uncompressed ram ...100+300 .. net result is about 400MB | 14:26 |
| godtrunks | was very easy to unintall | 14:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | godtrunks: and before you ask, see /topic | 14:26 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, it affects all patterns | 14:26 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure why it happens, but it happens only in sunlight | 14:27 |
| cehteh | strange | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's mad | 14:27 |
| Hurrian | godtrunks, it was probably 'mount /dev/mmcblk1p2 /and && apt-get remove --purge multiboot multiboot-kernel-power nitdroid-kernel && rm -r /and' | 14:27 |
| cehteh | i always wondered why they dont use the ALS for dim he notification led .. maybe they tried and failed | 14:27 |
| godtrunks | no | 14:27 |
| godtrunks | log in to root | 14:27 |
| godtrunks | mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /and -o noatime | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: you're sure it's not a red warning indicator pattern to inform user about overtemp? | 14:28 |
| godtrunks | and then | 14:28 |
| godtrunks | nitdroid-uninstaller | 14:28 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I'm sure | 14:28 |
| godtrunks | that was all | 14:28 |
| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer, it's definitely not overheating | 14:28 |
| MohammadAG | I've encountered it many times at school | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what else? ALS? | 14:28 |
| Hurrian | device stays <45C, all the time | 14:28 |
| Hurrian | no overclocking, it's actually undervolteg | 14:29 |
| MohammadAG | f the temp sensor it's broken anyway | 14:29 |
| cehteh | there is an overtempearture warning? | 14:29 |
| cehteh | i know pattern-error which is red blinking | 14:29 |
| MohammadAG | it explodes | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: there's definitely a -EBAT | 14:29 |
| Hurrian | oh, and the best one ever: device malfunction, system shutdown | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: OCers are pitched and feathered here ;-P | 14:30 |
| Hurrian | wonder why the n900 came loaded with "safety functions", when the target market was rather obvious | 14:30 |
| Hurrian | the symbian devices need watchdogs, not us | 14:31 |
| cehteh | because of that :) | 14:31 |
| Hurrian | have you seen a 5800 lock up? | 14:31 |
| cehteh | no one overclocks a iphone :P | 14:31 |
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| Hurrian | cehteh, you can turn off iphone's DVFS ;) | 14:31 |
| Hurrian | note that they're underclocked for a reason though | 14:31 |
| Hurrian | the silicon is not high quality | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: can't you debug what'S going on with LP553? | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | when that mystical stuff happens | 14:32 |
| Hurrian | oh, regarding the ALS, it would be great if it didnt take 5 seconds to change brightness | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 14:33 |
| cehteh | haha | 14:33 |
| cehteh | on my laptop it changes instantly | 14:33 |
| cehteh | i hate it when going by train and there are power poles thowing shadows 1 times a second while the train travels | 14:34 |
| cehteh | 10times | 14:34 |
| Hurrian | N900: delightfully tacky yet unrefined | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# cat /var/lib/mce/mode | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | normal | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-o | 14:34 |
| cehteh | well instant but slow reaction would be nice, integrate the light over lets say 2-5 seconds | 14:34 |
| cehteh | continously | 14:35 |
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| Hurrian | hmm, we should put together a very long list of what grinds your gears wrt the n900 | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Bugzilla for one. | 14:36 |
| Hurrian | i think it was posted on tmo a while ago: it doesnt shoot bullets | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ll /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-* | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 36952 2010-07-29 14:30 /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 30772 2010-07-29 14:30 /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-simple.so | 14:37 |
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| cehteh | where is the source? ... lala | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 14:37 |
| cehteh | als/simple is a config switch | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - and not properly implementing linear write reconsolidating swap. | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | To be fair - this wold be completely new code. | 14:38 |
| cehteh | simple just doing constant brightness | 14:38 |
| cehteh | thats documented somewhere | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | But it does cause a slowdown after several days for some users. | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | pointer please | 14:38 |
| cehteh | uhm .. mce.ini? | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but nuttin documented there? | 14:39 |
| cehteh | yeah documented somewhere on maemo.org .. wiki or some talk thread | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ bbl | 14:39 |
| cehteh | dito | 14:40 |
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| moZzo | in nokia X6 can i have a handwriting application? I want to write my text msgs with my finger? is it possible? | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - completely off topic. | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Unlikely anyone would know. | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | X6 isn't maemo. | 14:48 |
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| moZzo | sorry i just made a mistake.. | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | np | 14:50 |
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| Sicelo | if x6 is symbian, try #symbian | 14:56 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders if there is any chance of warranty replacements of n900s getting n9s. | 16:31 | |
| andre__ | hehe, in that case I think mine could really break soon :) | 16:32 |
| nid0 | break one in 2-3 months and find out, id like to know :D | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Mine is a bit broken. | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | But... | 16:32 |
| psycho_oreos | its a gamble in which its probably best to not hold your breath :p | 16:34 |
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| kerio | the n9 has no keyboard :( | 16:36 |
| kerio | NOKIA, Y U NO SELL N950 | 16:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | because of Flop, that's why | 16:37 |
| crashanddie | kerio, one word. Elop. | 16:37 |
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| Hurrian | NOKIA, Y U USE AEGIS | 16:40 |
| Hurrian | NOKIA, Y NO uSD SLOT IN N9 | 16:40 |
| psycho_oreos | because they don't trust the linux community (hint: some retarded owners in tmo) | 16:41 |
| Hurrian | NOKIA, Y N9 DOESNT USE LiPo | 16:41 |
| psycho_oreos | because they want mimick Apple like every other damn android powered device | 16:41 |
| Hurrian | heh | 16:41 |
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| Hurrian | i think aegis and no SD slot only serve to gimp the device | 16:42 |
| psycho_oreos | gimp? | 16:42 |
| Hurrian | hamstring | 16:42 |
| Hurrian | uhh, lets see what are better words for it | 16:43 |
| Hurrian | limit what the device can do, i guess | 16:43 |
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| psycho_oreos | well to limit and to cripple (i.e. belittling maemo/meego community) the device | 16:44 |
| Hurrian | no s**t | 16:44 |
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| psycho_oreos | its sad really but inevitable | 16:45 |
| Hurrian | with the whole aegis thing, might as well run wp7 on it | 16:45 |
| Hurrian | then again | 16:45 |
| Hurrian | microsoft is not liking .net | 16:45 |
| Hurrian | which happens to be the core of wp7 | 16:45 |
| Hurrian | uhh, wp7's app platform | 16:46 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm sure there has to be a way around it, when DocScrutinizer pointed out that aegis page on nokia, I saw there was a few lines which looked like XML to disable aegis. Though I don't think its an easy fix but I'm sure with that little hack exploited, one could in theory disable and therefore eradicate aegis | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't simply disable aegis on the device. | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | As I uderstad it. | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | You can however boot a kernel with no aegis. | 16:48 |
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| Hurrian | it would suck if the UX depended on aegis to run | 16:48 |
| psycho_oreos | no you can't disable it within easy measures, but in theory it is possible to somehow get rid of it if you could manage to disable aegis | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | How much hackery it requres to get the underlying apps to work in this state is a seperate question. | 16:48 |
| Hurrian | wonder if someone can just make a stubbed aegis to say "YES IT'S SECURE" | 16:49 |
| psycho_oreos | I thought aegis was just another software, lol it sounds like its as bad as SELinux | 16:49 |
| ShadowJK | Hurrian, it's Lithium Polymer in N900, N9, etc | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Aegis is sort-of SELinux | 16:49 |
| Hurrian | ShadowJK, since when was it LiPo in BL-5J? | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | Some of the stock applications (accounts, for example) depending on aegis being there | 16:49 |
| fiferboy | But the rest of the system /shouldn't/ care | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | fiferboy: For example, does the dialer rely on it to store contacts? | 16:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Or stuff like that. | 16:50 |
| fiferboy | SpeedEvil: Yeah, those are the answers we need | 16:50 |
| ShadowJK | Hurrian, since they used a polymer to bind the contents together, instead of using a metal container to keep the contents pressed together | 16:50 |
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| Hurrian | great, instead of closed programs, we now have closed programs with drm | 16:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | We don't know that yet. There have been comments that it should work fine with aegis removed. | 16:51 |
| fiferboy | Hurrian: But it *should* be possible to install open source alternatives, for example dialer | 16:51 |
| Hurrian | ah | 16:51 |
| Hurrian | well, we're going back to qt rewrites of system apps | 16:52 |
| Hurrian | the hot steamy dump on the community continues... | 16:52 |
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| GAN900 | lol | 16:58 |
| GAN900 | I'm pretty sure MS is making them do it. | 16:58 |
| ShadowJK | A better question would be why Nokia isn't using the new improved Lithium Ion batteries.. But I guess they don't make them in Polymer version yet | 16:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Improved? | 16:58 |
| SpeedEvil | You mean fast charge? | 16:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Saft has some awesome cells (that you cannoy buy) | 16:59 |
| SpeedEvil | specified for tens of thousands of cycles, and decades of service. | 16:59 |
| jiero | why does OpenGL not supported by mobile graphics card... | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | No they can be charged to 4.35 and discharged to 2.5V (without "venting with flame" like current mainstream ones) | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | Panasonic's NNP, Nickel based New Platform | 17:00 |
| ShadowJK | Even if they were made in Polymer version and BL-5J shape, we'd only get limited benefit from it, as we'd only be able to increase charge voltage, not decrease cutoff voltage :) | 17:01 |
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| ShadowJK | oh oops, Panasonic NNP wasn't one of those 4.35V cells | 17:01 |
| SpeedEvil | The real issue I care about is aging | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | If you don't implement stupid charger hardware, sticking to 4.2 isn't an issue | 17:03 |
| ShadowJK | Weird, Panasonic's NNP 18650 is specced to 2900mAH for 4.2-2.5V, LG Chem's ICR18650 C1 2800mAh 4.35V - 3V | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Is that absolute maximum, or cyclic? | 17:04 |
| GAN900 | When is somebody gonna hack swipe into Hildon Desktop? | 17:04 |
| psycho_oreos | when the source is available or someone else reverse engineers swipe | 17:05 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, no it's specced to operate between 3.00 - 4.35V. You don't get full rated capacity with 4.2 | 17:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd be very worried about capacity fade and aging at 4.35 | 17:06 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.saftbatteries.com/Produit_Containerised_Li_ion_battery_system_468_311/Language/en-US/Default.aspx | 17:07 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah they promise 300 cycles to 80% | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Half a megawatt-hour battery. | 17:07 |
| ShadowJK | probably worse than 300 as Li-Polymer | 17:07 |
| GAN900 | psycho_oreos, source is pretty irrelevant. | 17:07 |
| GAN900 | Just reimplement the functionality. | 17:08 |
| GAN900 | You can't backport it. | 17:08 |
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| psycho_oreos | GAN900: I'm not saying backport it, rather to incorporate the actual mechanisms of swipe functionality. | 17:09 |
| * SpeedEvil idly wonders about compiz. | 17:10 | |
| ShadowJK | argh, so many chemistries now | 17:11 |
| * SpeedEvil wants AgPt. | 17:11 | |
| SpeedEvil | A couple of tons should do. | 17:11 |
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| ShadowJK | LiCo, LiMnNi, LiMnCoMn, and too many variations of LiCo :/ | 17:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | can't blame them for being creative and experimenting which combinations work best ;) | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Not quite. | 17:12 |
| SpeedEvil | It's to avoid patent fees. | 17:13 |
| * SpeedEvil assumes. | 17:13 | |
| psycho_oreos | well that could also be a possible case | 17:13 |
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| GAN900 | psycho_oreos, the code wont just drop into Maemo. | 17:17 |
| ShadowJK | They all have subtle differences in internal resistance, cycle life, and out-of-spec behaviour | 17:18 |
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| psycho_oreos | GAN900: that's what I meant :) you can't implement the functionality without knowing all the little tidbits. Source code doesn't exactly seem irrelevant here if you can't see how it works from source code unless you plan to create a lookalike functionality :) | 17:19 |
| GAN900 | You can see how it works pretty easily just by using it. | 17:19 |
| MohammadAG | technically it's doable in hildon-desktop | 17:19 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah that's what you call: clean room reverse engineering | 17:20 |
| psycho_oreos | looking at how it works and creating a `lookalike' != creating an exact clone basing on the source code | 17:20 |
| psycho_oreos | not exactly clean room reverse engineering I should add, not without having a team of more than one in the first place :p | 17:21 |
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| GAN900 | Yeah, wasn't looking to play a semantics game. | 17:21 |
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| ysss | i have a craving for oreo milkshake | 17:26 |
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| NIN101 | abill_uk talking about reverse engineering maemo: "Well i tried even with my limited experiance of linux and i at least got some of the source listed". lol, this guy is... | 17:27 |
| javispedro | a genius | 17:27 |
| ysss | in need of some sort of help | 17:28 |
| psycho_oreos | lrn2ignore ;p | 17:28 |
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| b-man` | i'd hate to meet him in real life :P | 17:28 |
| javispedro | but he's to be the next council chair! | 17:28 |
| ysss | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1064658#post1064658 | 17:29 |
| javispedro | he's going to make a rather large keynote in the next summit. | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | 'what does the Q in QML stand for' | 17:29 |
| psycho_oreos | Qt? | 17:29 |
| psycho_oreos | as in Qt Modelling Language | 17:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | *shrugs* I wouldn't know if that answer is right or not :) | 17:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I know - was referring to someone at meego conf. | 17:30 |
| b-man` | heh, i was thinking Qt Markup Language | 17:30 |
| psycho_oreos | oh | 17:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Qho actually did ask during a presentation what the Q in Qt was | 17:30 |
| ysss | ask trolltech | 17:31 |
| psycho_oreos | sounds more like a Qt conf than meego conf :) throwing around somewhat obscure question | 17:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Naah. | 17:33 |
| SpeedEvil | He also asked what 'PNG' was. | 17:33 |
| fiferboy | I wondered if he got accepted for the N950 developer program... :) | 17:35 |
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| javispedro | probably | 17:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Hurrian: (<Hurrian> wonder if someone can just make a stubbed aegis to say "YES IT'S SECURE") forget it - that's not what aegis does | 18:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aegis is for example managing accounts, it's not like accounts manager is asking aegis "IS SYSTEM SECURE?" | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and probably the Nokia account needed to make e.g. Map and Drive app work is impossible to "emulate" without aegis account management | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | same will probably apply for OTA updates | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | re | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | you quite possibly can get rid of aegis, but that will most likely mean you also will get rid of a lot of Nokia "proprietary" stuff | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | so not really any difference to fremantle, just some apps like maybe dialer etc might be foss now but then rely on a lot of aegis functions so you still can't simply replace them by your own mod-o-fied version | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl again | 18:15 |
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| crashanddie | I'm done for the week. Have a nice weekend all. Take care. | 20:10 |
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| fusi | my scud batteries have arrrived ^^ | 20:55 |
| fusi | chargin em up nao :D | 20:56 |
| fusi | got them from lucia lui | 20:56 |
| fusi | recommend to buy from them - very kind | 20:56 |
| fusi | free screen protector and free fast shipping ;D | 20:56 |
| fusi | cant beleive they were so cheap | 20:56 |
| fusi | there must be a catch.. | 20:56 |
| fusi | heh | 20:56 |
| fusi | i liked the customs workaround | 20:57 |
| fusi | on the box | 20:57 |
| fusi | 'business gift' | 20:57 |
| fusi | hrhr | 20:57 |
| ruskie | that doesn't tend to help much | 20:57 |
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| ruskie | but there tends to be some limit on "personal" imports | 20:58 |
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| ruskie | before they charge you customs | 20:58 |
| fusi | ah | 20:59 |
| ruskie | I know in .si they raised it up a lot like a year or so ago | 20:59 |
| ruskie | before that it was like 30 eur | 20:59 |
| ruskie | now it's like 10 times that or somethin | 21:00 |
| ruskie | g | 21:00 |
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| ruskie | hmm interesting... importing of computer peripherals from the USA is customs free but you do need to pay the VAT for it apparently | 21:07 |
| ruskie | of course since the UK tends to do things it's own way most of the time there might be different stuff | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | ruskie: which country? | 21:11 |
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| ruskie | what? | 21:11 |
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| RST38h | Ah,UK | 21:11 |
| ruskie | well that's fusi... but since it's all EU(SI or UK) the regs should generally be the same | 21:11 |
| ruskie | but UK tends to do things a bit differently with some things | 21:12 |
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| GAN900 | Like those silly 2-year warranty requirements which drive your prices way up. :P | 21:18 |
| slonopotamus | huh | 21:18 |
| ruskie | GAN900, frankly I wouldn't mind if that was enforced | 21:19 |
| slonopotamus | that's because devices are so bad that they can't even survice for 1y? | 21:19 |
| slonopotamus | *survive | 21:19 |
| GAN900 | ruskie, you end up paying for it in the price of the device. | 21:19 |
| ruskie | slonopotamus, no... materials are produced in such a way os to fail after warranty+$rand | 21:19 |
| ruskie | where $rand tends to be less than 1 year | 21:20 |
| ruskie | GAN900, well if it lasts longer then sure no prob | 21:20 |
| ruskie | if it fails before that time anyway then great as well | 21:20 |
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| slonopotamus | ruskie, that's wrong for at least tvs, wash machines, fridges and desktop/server computers | 21:21 |
| ruskie | hahahahahahahahaha | 21:21 |
| ruskie | fridge failed before 2 years warranty was up... | 21:22 |
| ruskie | new TVs no experencie yet... only just get them this year and they have a 5 year warranty | 21:22 |
| slonopotamus | dunno about new tvs. CRT ones live for 10+ years | 21:23 |
| ruskie | yup | 21:23 |
| ruskie | they do | 21:23 |
| ruskie | we have a 15 year old one that still works fine | 21:23 |
| slonopotamus | that's waay longer than its warranty period | 21:23 |
| slonopotamus | btw, cars too | 21:23 |
| ruskie | but it was repaired some 3 times | 21:23 |
| ruskie | but only the scart connectors really needed to be resoldered | 21:24 |
| ruskie | well the entire connector board but that imho is minor | 21:24 |
| slonopotamus | what i want to say. there products that last much longer than their warranty. | 21:25 |
| ruskie | there are, were and will be | 21:25 |
| ruskie | the prob is that there is also a ton of crap products that don't | 21:25 |
| ruskie | and that is what those regs are for | 21:25 |
| fusi | i must be lucky | 21:26 |
| slonopotamus | i think it would be good for customers if vendors were forced to make longer-living things | 21:26 |
| fusi | never had anything other than harddrives mechanically fail on me | 21:26 |
| ruskie | I had a deathstar fail in 3 months | 21:26 |
| fusi | hehe i had a deathstar too | 21:26 |
| fusi | and it died | 21:26 |
| fusi | still got it ^^ | 21:27 |
| fusi | still works if i place it on its side, mostly | 21:27 |
| ShadowJK | I heard places like best buy don't want to sell things with long warranties, because then they can't sell their warranty extensions, which are many times more profitable than selling gadgets | 21:27 |
| ruskie | I took it back and was replaced with a 20gb one | 21:27 |
| ruskie | which didn't have the issues of the 15gb one | 21:27 |
| fusi | i had the 80gb | 21:27 |
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| ruskie | but hell I even got random failures from seagate and wd hdds recently | 21:28 |
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| fusi | D: | 21:28 |
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| fusi | im all on spinpoint f3's atm | 21:29 |
| ruskie | one seagate failed @work like 3 weeks ago | 21:29 |
| fusi | eep | 21:29 |
| fusi | well | 21:30 |
| ruskie | data recovary was 900 eur | 21:30 |
| fusi | this battery hasnt blown up yet ^^ | 21:30 |
| fusi | ouch | 21:30 |
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| fusi | no backups? | 21:30 |
| ruskie | not in this case | 21:30 |
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| fusi | doh | 21:30 |
| ruskie | due to boss telling that person to not backup to server due to sensitive data | 21:30 |
| ruskie | but the recovery was 100% | 21:30 |
| fusi | heh | 21:30 |
| ruskie | so we spent a 100eur extra to get an external drive | 21:31 |
| ruskie | and now they do backups manually to it | 21:31 |
| fusi | aye | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | uExtremely lucky. | 21:31 |
| fusi | in government its a bit different ^^ | 21:32 |
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| ruskie | well don't need to worry about work stuff for the next two weeks | 21:33 |
| fusi | holiday? :D | 21:33 |
| ruskie | vacation | 21:34 |
| fusi | \o/ | 21:34 |
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| fusi | freaking love my n900 | 21:34 |
| fusi | gonna drive out a feidl in the middle of nowhere in a min | 21:35 |
| fusi | and remote in and do some work while the sun sets | 21:35 |
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| fusi | thinking of getting a monitor for my car | 21:35 |
| fusi | doing some sort of control panel conversion | 21:36 |
| fusi | touch screen centre console power by n900 | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: ever heard of encryption? | 21:36 |
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| Chiku|dc | what device is after n900 ? | 21:37 |
| fusi | none | 21:37 |
| fusi | :p | 21:37 |
| fusi | ever | 21:37 |
| fusi | heh norly n950 apparently | 21:37 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, wrt to? | 21:37 |
| Chiku|dc | N9 is out september, but it's not n900 serie right? | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | backup of sensitive data | 21:38 |
| fusi | nope dont think so | 21:38 |
| fusi | n9 runs symbian doesnt it? | 21:38 |
| Chiku|dc | no | 21:38 |
| Chiku|dc | meego | 21:38 |
| fusi | no keyb either afaik | 21:38 |
| fusi | oh | 21:38 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, got enough problems with people understanding passwords etc... | 21:38 |
| ruskie | even though this is an IT outfit... most tend to be of the type "shiny" | 21:38 |
| fusi | i know what you mean | 21:39 |
| fusi | we got a whole infosec dept dedicated to beating some common bloody sense into users | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: asym encryption prior to image backup is perfectly simple and scriptable | 21:39 |
| ruskie | my suggestion of lets bring emails intenrally and stop messing with an external provider are ignored | 21:40 |
| fusi | no, do not write your passwords down on a postit note stuck to your monitor | 21:40 |
| fusi | FGS | 21:40 |
| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, the prob is person won't store to nas | 21:40 |
| ruskie | due to the specific instructions from the boss | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: in case you need to restore, the boss hets the privkey out of his shoe | 21:40 |
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| fusi | heh | 21:40 |
| fusi | inside the heel | 21:41 |
| fusi | and you have to eat it once finished with | 21:41 |
| ruskie | when I suggested that our laptop users start using encryption on laptops it was ignored | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | heck, the sysop needs to do that, not the users | 21:41 |
| ruskie | or specifically... we don't care/want that | 21:41 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, yeah I'm it... but unless the boss OKays it I can't do much | 21:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah I once had a job at Siemens where I copied integers from a excel sheet to c code constants, 2 weeks. When I was done I started over from beginning, with next iteration of data. Did that like 3 months before I quit the job. Nobody ever thought about rather writing a script for it | 21:44 |
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| fusi | crikey | 21:45 |
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| ruskie | DocScrutinizer, hehe | 21:45 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, nobody, not even you?-) | 21:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | me *thought* about it first day | 21:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but then I was a freelancer | 21:46 |
| flux | maybe you could've sold an application to do that. | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 21:47 |
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| ruskie | hehe | 21:47 |
| flux | ..for the next guy to do it, not for the corporation ;) | 21:47 |
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| ruskie | I already automate as much as I can | 21:48 |
| ruskie | but that's in my nature... I'm lazy | 21:48 |
| ruskie | so I tend to also be efficient | 21:48 |
| fusi | human nature | 21:48 |
| ruskie | means I can be more lazy afterwards | 21:48 |
| fusi | hehe | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: now you know why I quit the job | 21:49 |
| ruskie | but yeah did have a data entry job as a student... DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT EVER AGAIN | 21:49 |
| fusi | :s | 21:49 |
| ruskie | now each time I get some data I go: hmm how to script this | 21:49 |
| ruskie | and tend to do it | 21:49 |
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| ruskie | need a load test for a web service... with random input... hmm zsh+curl works wonders ;) | 21:50 |
| ruskie | if nothing else to setup the input for jmeter then | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw you probaly *all* heard the result if my data copying back when, in some car with a navi built by Siemens (most original navis are) | 21:51 |
| ruskie | erm... | 21:51 |
| fusi | btw, ive hacked the libpurple-twitter-protocol plugin to work with supertweet.net - for ppl who dont want to wait for full oauth support | 21:51 |
| fusi | hehe DocScrutinizer | 21:52 |
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| fusi | siemens used to manage our network | 21:53 |
| fusi | we ended up moving it all in house cause they were too expensive/unreliable :(( | 21:53 |
| ruskie | hehe | 21:53 |
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| thomic | fusi: ? who managed your network ? | 21:55 |
| thomic | Siemens is managing networks? | 21:56 |
| fusi | yea | 21:56 |
| fusi | uhm | 21:56 |
| thomic | which part? | 21:56 |
| fusi | im talking major infrastructure | 21:56 |
| thomic | IT Solutions? | 21:56 |
| fusi | government | 21:56 |
| thomic | which country? | 21:56 |
| thomic | :) | 21:56 |
| fusi | uk | 21:56 |
| thomic | oh well yeah think that was a time ago | 21:57 |
| thomic | some years? | 21:57 |
| fusi | last year we switched to in house | 21:57 |
| thomic | because they are now french ... | 21:57 |
| thomic | SIS selled to french supplier Atos | 21:57 |
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| thomic | i think | 21:57 |
| fusi | atos origin | 21:57 |
| fusi | heheh | 21:57 |
| fusi | those scumbags | 21:58 |
| fusi | wanted me to move to darlington | 21:58 |
| fusi | for 24k/pa | 21:58 |
| fusi | pfffff | 21:58 |
| fusi | told em where to stick it | 21:58 |
| thomic | :D | 21:58 |
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| thomic | yay siemens and atos (now together) are very aggressive in "Public Sector" - Deals | 21:59 |
| thomic | unfortunately | 21:59 |
| fusi | aye | 21:59 |
| fusi | they do get everywhere | 22:00 |
| fusi | fingers in all the pies | 22:00 |
| thomic | there are very cool examples of local and in-house strategies like in Munich where they rolled-out LiMux(their own Linux distro) | 22:00 |
| thomic | in whole city government etc. | 22:00 |
| thomic | just a few win-pcs were left | 22:00 |
| fusi | yea | 22:00 |
| thomic | where they was binded to "special software" | 22:00 |
| fusi | we are atm on user-side | 22:01 |
| thomic | but now i think they failed hard | 22:01 |
| fusi | crap like mcafee safeboot | 22:01 |
| fusi | bleurgh | 22:01 |
| thomic | :D | 22:01 |
| thomic | my last comp. got i think ... yea "TrendMicro Sec. Suite" | 22:01 |
| thomic | in the whole comp. | 22:01 |
| thomic | and it wasn't that little | 22:02 |
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| thomic | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux < Information | 22:02 |
| thomic | :) | 22:02 |
| fusi | i doubt thos in power here have the guts to do something like that | 22:03 |
| fusi | spineless managers ^^ | 22:03 |
| fusi | good business | 22:03 |
| fusi | yada | 22:03 |
| fusi | dont get me startee | 22:03 |
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| fusi | rightio im off | 22:05 |
| fusi | cya l8rs o/ | 22:05 |
| thomic | hrm i think why atos will pay only 24k(pounds?)/pa | 22:05 |
| thomic | :D | 22:05 |
| thomic | ok | 22:05 |
| thomic | cya l8or | 22:05 |
| thomic | maybe they have to pay there "teambuilding foo" | 22:05 |
| thomic | :D | 22:05 |
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| * ShadowJK was adding benchmark results to his flash benchmark spreadsheet just now | 23:13 | |
| ShadowJK | I noticed I have benchmarked a Sandisk Class 4 MicroSDHC at 12 MegaBytes/sec sequential write speed. If it was any other manufacturer, they'd have labeled it "Class 12 OMG OMG" or something :) | 23:14 |
| GAN900 | That's why they cost what they do. | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 23:16 |
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| MOUD | Hey all | 23:56 |
| MOUD | how can I know which power kernel is being used? | 23:56 |
| OkropNick | maybe uname -a | 23:59 |
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