IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-01-30

BCMMapplications, such as "less" or Vim running under "screen" - i'd met that exact problem00:00
psycho_oreosJaffa, ahh ok it was in regards to ham from the cssu, wondered if you were using it, if so, are you facing some `turbulence'?00:00
Jaffapsycho_oreos: I am using it. What d'you mean by "turbulence"?00:01
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psycho_oreosJaffa, internal error. 'hildon-application-manager' closed00:01
Jaffapsycho_oreos: No, not seeing that.00:01
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Jaffapsycho_oreos: However, I don't think CSSU includes HAM does it?00:02
psycho_oreosall these seems to happen at random. Initially I thought it was red pill mode, but deleting the file and it still seem to do it. I can attach relevant crash dumps however :)00:02
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BCMMKen-Young: when it says "Can you write documentation?", would that require any specific knowledge, or just the ability to explain things clearly?00:02
BCMMi mishighlighted again00:02
BCMMJaffa: ^00:02
psycho_oreosJaffa, dunno, ham is in the cssu repo and I thought it was also updated00:02
Jaffapsycho_oreos: *Might* be related to the apt-worker shim (and dpkg-divert)00:02
Jaffapsycho_oreos: Hmm. Missing from gitorious and so the Changelog00:03
Jaffapsycho_oreos: Can you raise a bug if there to cover any packages in the repo which aren't at
psycho_oreosJaffa, guess I'll need to check the logs myself, hopefully its not from cssu but either way there's fapman for when such built-ins fail00:03
JaffaBCMM: That doesn't require any specific knowledge. Hell, just tending the wiki and doing things like maintaing the installation FAQ (and maybe a normal FAQ) are great ways to contribute00:04
* Jaffa beds00:04
psycho_oreosJaffa, hmm I could try, would be my first time raising bugs if its not through garage.maemo.org00:04
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psycho_oreosdamn, nite Jaffa00:04
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psycho_oreosBCMM, maybe make it more newb friendly would be nice too :D I had to get my doc contributions edited because it wasn't clear enough00:05
Jaffapsycho_oreos: is *much* nicer :-)00:05
psycho_oreosJaffa, ok I'll go through that, or at least will try my best :) thanks and nite00:05
Jaffapsycho_oreos: Great thing about wikis is the iterative nature. All the stuff added under CSSU was much easier to tidy up than write from scratch :-)00:06
Jaffapsycho_oreos: thanks; much appreciated00:06
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Jaffapsycho_oreos: Don't worry about the component when raising the bug under - there isn't a component for "gitorious" or "missing source"00:06
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BCMMJaffa: is the changelog comprehensive?00:07
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BCMM(finally, highlighted correctly)00:07
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psycho_oreosJaffa, ahh perfect, that's the link I've been meaning to look for (I must be getting tired, caffeine is wearing out on me)00:08
JaffaBCMM: merlin1991 started on it. I would not say it was comprehensive no. In particular where things have moved up to the HEAD, knowing what's changed between the PR1.3 version and the HEAD by Nokians. Hopefully the debian/changelogs for each package contain some useful information00:08
Jaffapsycho_oreos: It's off so I don't have to remember it ;-)00:08
psycho_oreosJaffa, lol haha then I'm getting lazy instead00:09
JaffaBCMM: Again, something which is a little tedious, but doesn't require technical knowledge to consolidate (but may then get adapted by anyone to be more user friendly & understandable)00:09
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trumeeStock kernel on N900 doesnt have /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand/avoid_frequencies ?00:17
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psycho_oreosnope it doesn't have that file00:18
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trumeepsycho_oreos: is there any way to get that feature on stock?00:20
trumeepsycho_oreos: i wanted to force the frequency to 600Mhz on a sip call00:20
Jaffatrumee: Apart from recompiling the kernel?00:20
trumeeJaffa: yes00:20
trumeeJaffa: what feature in the kernel enables that?00:21
Jaffatrumee: NAFAIK. There are governor settings exposed somewhere00:21
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Jaffatrumee: No idea, I'm afraid00:21
trumeeJaffa: ok00:21
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unixSnobwhoever was asking me for the AT&T credit... forget it.  I found out it's not possible to transfer credit from prepaid to postpaid accounts00:37
* jonwil wonders why no-one seems to care about his work on the icd policy pluigins...00:39
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psycho_oreostrumee, no sadly I don't have any idea about that without kernel hacking + compiling00:51
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trumeei cant00:54
* nox- just read about a community ssu, where can i read more?00:57
pupnik_jonwil: not many ppl use it directly00:58
jonwilwell I was hoping someone would be interested in using my findings to produce some new stuff for better control over which network the phone uses00:59
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marnanelBCMM: h-d contains the window manager (which is libmatchbox2)01:03
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BCMMmarnanel: thanks01:03
marnanelBCMM: let me know if you need to know stuff about how libmatchbox2 and h-d interact, or something like that01:03
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BCMMmarnanel: all i was wondering was whether problems with portrait mode could be caused by bugs in modified hildon-desktop01:04
pupnik_jonwil: how bout maemo on other devices01:05
jonwilThats not something I care about :P01:05
marnanelBCMM: how was it modified?01:05
BCMMmarnanel: confusingly, "modified hildon desktop" refers to a specific package
marnaneloh, I see. hadn't run into that one.01:06
marnanel"modified rapture!" </mikado>01:06
psycho_oreosthe mhd (modified hildon desktop) is by matan, supposedly all the relevant tweaks and what not have been integrated into the now hildon-desktop which is available in CSSU01:08
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BCMMmarnanel: huh?01:09
BCMMpsycho_oreos: oh, i was going to ask about that01:09
BCMMpsycho_oreos: hildon-desktop isn't mentioned in the CSSU changelog01:09
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nox-thx psycho_oreos01:09
psycho_oreosBCMM, I guess that's now answered :)01:09
BCMMis the changelog up to date?01:09
BCMMi mean, to what extent is it not up-to-date?01:09
psycho_oreosBCMM, well its actually mentioned as todo :) but I've heard from MohammadAG that its based on matan's mhd01:10
psycho_oreosnox-, nw01:10
BCMMi don't think i could use it without "alt-tab" now01:10
psycho_oreosor at least its newer than mhd, put it that way :) that's how I asked him01:10
psycho_oreosnope you still can01:10
BCMMdoes it still crash when one gets email?01:10
psycho_oreosSym/Ctrl + Backspace01:10
psycho_oreosI don't know about that, I don't use modest myself :)01:11
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psycho_oreosyou could give it a try and see I suppose01:11
BCMMpsycho_oreos: actually, i think it was any "blue notification"01:12
BCMM(i know they aren't always blue)01:12
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BCMMso does CSSU basically work?01:13
BCMM(i mean, it is any more of a bad idea than using extras-devel?)01:13
psycho_oreosBCMM, don't know of blue notification, unless you're referring the blue LED for incoming messages but again I must stress I hardly do emailing with n900, let alone dealing with modest01:14
BCMMpsycho_oreos: when you get an email, sms, or missed call, a thing appears on the task-switcher01:14
psycho_oreosCSSU is basically in its infancy stage. I'm not sure how to categorise it as Jaffa would but at least their aim is to try and fix up the bugs from core apps mainly01:15
BCMMsometimes, switching tasks when one of those exists crashes MHD01:15
psycho_oreosBCMM, for SMS and missed calls I don't think I have had any crashes.. I presume when it crashes the little task bar restarts?01:16
BCMMyeah, hildon-desktop respawns01:16
BCMMalthough i think maemo will reboot if you crash hildon desktop several times in quick succession01:17
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BCMMi guess there is some kind of watchdog there01:17
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psycho_oreosno I don't have any respawns when it came to switching to SMS and missed calls01:18
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BCMMpsycho_oreos: do you use CSSU?01:18
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psycho_oreosBCMM, yes01:19
BCMMpsycho_oreos: any issues with it for you?01:20
psycho_oreosBCMM, only with hildon-application-manager and its random crashes01:20
jonwilCan someone with a N900 handy (mine is still in the shop being fixed) run this dbus command and post the results somewhere?01:21
jonwildbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/phone/SMS org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect01:21
BCMMcool, i'm going to upgrade. how long does it take, vaguely?01:21
psycho_oreosjonwil, Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name was not provided by any .service files01:21
jonwilhmmm, looks like its called something else01:21
psycho_oreosBCMM, not very long, needs around 5 mins tops, mostly to do with waiting whilst the package gets installed properly after HAM :)01:21
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BCMMpsycho_oreos: thanks!01:22
psycho_oreosBCMM, btw if you have mhd, its suggested to remove that, I have had that issue and I later noted into Installation_FAQ. The fix was actually suggested by MohammadAG which works01:22
psycho_oreosBCMM, nw01:23
BCMMthanks, i was going to do that anyway as it seemed like a good idea01:23
jonwilhmmm, i dont know how you can send the relavent dbus command for that.01:24
psycho_oreosthat was the major road block as to inhibiting me from continuing community CSSU install :)01:24
psycho_oreosjonwil, not that I know any better but what exactly is it you want to achieve? curiously speaking :)01:24
jonwilwell supposedly csd-sms supports dbus introspection01:25
jonwiland I want to obtain the dump of said introspection01:25
jonwilin case it has usefull info for what I am reverse engineering01:25
psycho_oreoswonder if you could dump available dbus commands and maybe grep from there instead01:26
jonwildont know how to dump available dbus commands01:27
marnaneldfeet ought to help you with that01:27
marnanelor similar01:27
marnanelor you could roll your own: look into dbus introspection01:28
jonwilhmmm, will have to dig more when I get my n900 back I guess :P01:28
BCMManyone know if there are any issues with kernel-power and CSSU?01:29
psycho_oreosmarnanel, any idea where dfeet might be available?01:30
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BCMMwhat's the right way to remove MHD? does one need to explicitely reinstall the original hildon-desktop?01:37
psycho_oreosBCMM, just dpkg -r, don't purge it, it seems like some CSSU testers/users are facing Ctrl+Backspace non-functionality01:38
psycho_oreosmine is stated as rc which still leaves configuration files01:38
BCMMpsycho_oreos: presumably, alt-tab is not a default and it only worked right away for you because you still had gconf entries from MHD?01:39
BCMMpsycho_oreos: sorry, i don't understand "mine is stated as rc"01:39
BCMMpossibly because i'm a debian newbie01:40
ieatlinthas anyone ever dealt with the site
psycho_oreosBCMM, yes it only worked because of MHD but you cannot proceed installing CSSU if MHD is installed. You need to remove it but not purge it which allows CSSU to be installed and I believe you will still retain functionality01:41
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BCMMpsycho_oreos: i don't know the difference between uninstall and purge...01:41
psycho_oreosBCMM, dpkg -l| grep modified <--- you will see the very first two letters distinguishing the status of the package on the system, ii means instead, etc01:41
BCMMpsycho_oreos: but in any case, i should dpgk -r modified-hildon-desktop?01:41
psycho_oreosBCMM, I believe uninstall or in dpkg speak: remove; removes the core files but leaves the configuration files behind. purge will not only remove the core files included in the package but also the configuration files therefore it won't leave any more traces01:42
psycho_oreosBCMM, you meant dpkg -r01:42
BCMMyeah, typo01:43
psycho_oreosBCMM, I think its also best for you to also speak in #maemo-ssu where there's testers/users finding out how to get around it :)01:43
psycho_oreosthat and it'll save me from switching between either of the channels :p :)01:43
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alteregopurge will only remove config files that are installed with the package.01:47
alteregoIf the appâ creates config files at run time then they're not guaranteed to be removed.01:47
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psycho_oreosI stand corrected, thanks alterego01:53
alteregotbh I don't know the exact behaviour myself, purge might not remove config files that have been modified either. Though I suspect purge was designed to remove modified files and normal apt-get remove wont touch them but probably will remove config files that aren't modified.01:55
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DocScrutinizer51fsckng DSL DHCP / PAP04:01
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* jonwil wishes his n900 wasn't in the shop being fixed04:22
* jonwil wants to try some dbus introspection calls on the SMS logic (its clear that the SMS csd plugin supports introspection in some form)04:23
psycho_oreosjonwil, you got any new commands for me to give you some feedback with?04:23
jonwildont know any further steps to try, we need to find someone with dbus know-how :)]\04:24
* psycho_oreos grabs MohammadAG 04:24
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voltagexhi, I'm getting massive amounts of lag when my N900 is on my WLAN - upwards of 500ms ping time...05:38
voltagexany ideas?05:38
peregrinso what is the diff between dbus and gconf?05:39
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pahartikperegrin: "gconf" is configuration storage database, "dbus" is interprocess communication bus05:41
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peregrinbut dbus is used for runtime configuration, and and gconf changes are signaled to running programs no?05:44
compengidid anybody try meego on n900?05:46
peregrindoes meego use rpm? and reshatisms in general?05:47
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KilrooHm. I wonder what would happen if one attempted to install the pacman for Arch Mobile on Maemo and start trying to use packages from the Arch Mobile repositories. Assuming Arch Mobile is that far along, that is. I think it is.06:02
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psycho_oreosvoltagex_, is this a recurring thing?06:12
psycho_oreospergrin_, meego does use rpm06:14
psycho_oreoscompengi, you may want to also ask that same question in #meego as well06:14
compengithanks psycho_oreos06:15
psycho_oreoscompengi, nw06:15
esaym153is there a version of libtheora that has encoding enabled for the n810 available for download anywhere?06:21
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RobbieThe1stHey guys, can anyone tell me what libacl1 is used for on the n900?08:49
RobbieThe1stAlso libattr108:50
flux2.2.47-2 and 1:2.4.43-108:50
RobbieThe1stNo; I mean what applications use them, and what -for-.08:50
fluxoh, "for" :)08:50
fluxsamba appears to depend on libattr108:51
pupnik  << if you want some humor later - Doug Stanhope - Word of Mouth (comedy show, 1:20 minutes)08:51
fluxrsync and samba both depend on libacl1 and libattr108:51
flux..and coreutils-gnu08:51
fluxso, I think, basically they are used only if you need them08:52
RobbieThe1stThing is, I have both of those in my list of loaded libraries for BackupMenu... But I'm not sure why I added them, and am trying to figure out if they are even needed08:52
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jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: for extended acls and attributes08:53
jacekowskiRobbieThe1st: not used at all08:53
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RobbieThe1stOh gees... I forget; what do you use to connect to a serial-console on /dev/ttyACM009:04
RobbieThe1st(on the PC side, Linux)09:04
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johnxmight be able to get away with screen, IIRC09:04
mgedminscreen works09:04
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RobbieThe1stmgedmin: Uh... how?09:07
mgedminscreen /dev/ttyACM009:07
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RobbieThe1stAh, there we go. Not sure why it wasn't working before.09:09
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jonwilAnyone here know anything about dbus?10:14
jacekowskilittle bit10:15
Jartzasomething, yes10:16
jonwilspecifically dbus introspection?10:16
Jartzawhat about it10:17
jonwilI have some evidence that the SMS plugin supports dbus introspection using and /com/nokia/phone/SMS and want to find someone who can help me get a dump of whatever dbus introspection output said plugin supports.10:18
jonwilI would try myself but A.I know nothing about dbus and B.My N900 is still in the shop being fixed :)10:18
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Jartzadbus-send --session --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/phone/SMS org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect10:19
Jartzaor something like that :)10:19
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jonwilok, well as I said I dont have my n900 right now, is there someone who can try that and se eif it works?10:20
Jartzamight also be --system instead of --session10:23
Jartzanot sure10:23
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RobbieThe1stJartza: I just get "usage: bla bla bla" - it didn't like it10:26
JartzaRobbieThe1st: you must have a typo, it did work for me, although it was --system instead of --session10:26
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RobbieThe1stOh, there we go10:27
RobbieThe1st--print-reply instead of --print_reply10:28
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Jartzaanyway, the output is already there :)10:28
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jacekowski22/#maemo.log:15:47 < jacekowski> i see function processing that cell broadcast calling dbus_message_new_signal( "/com/nokia/phone/SMS",  "Phone.SMS", "IncomingCBS");10:29
jacekowskiJartza: you may know what is it10:29
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Jartzajacekowski: sms cell broadcast10:31
jacekowskii know10:32
jacekowskibut it goes like that10:33
jacekowskidbus_message_new_signal -> dbus_message_append_args -> dbus_connection_send10:33
jacekowskibut i don't see message being sent10:33
Jartzawhat do you mean by "don't see"?10:34
jacekowskiwith dbus_monitor10:34
Jartzaare you using the correct bus?10:34
jacekowskii've tried session and system10:35
Jartzawell system bus seems to be the correct one10:36
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Jartzahow are you monitoring?10:36
Jartzajust dbus-monitor --system ?10:37
jonwilIt might be that libsms isnt sending the right stuff through to csd-sms10:37
Jartzashould show up then. you might have some problem in sending code.10:37
jacekowskiit's not my code10:37
jonwilThis is Nokia code10:38
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jonwilresponsible for SMS10:38
jonwilinside csd-sms plugin10:38
jonwilWhat happens is that csd-sms calls a function called isi_sms_get_callbacks in libsms and fills in one of the callback fields with the function responsible for triggering the IncomingCBS signal10:39
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jacekowski.text:00003EDC IncomingCBS10:41
jonwilIt may well be that libsms never actually calls that callback and doesn't implement the right cell broadcast stuff10:41
jacekowskiit does10:41
jonwilso you know for a fact that the function inside csd-sms at 00003EDC is called?10:42
jonwilwell I do know some of the nokia dbus things cant be easily monitored with dbus-monitor10:42
jonwilor I think so anyway10:42
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jonwilWould be nice to figure out what type those arguments are10:46
jonwili.e. the "ay", "u" and "y"10:47
jonwilGoogle doesnt show any usefull results for that10:47
Jartzadunno that deeply10:51
JartzaI haven't messed that much with the actual sms/call-stuff10:51
jonwilwell I am guessing that the valid type values would be standardized somewhere in the dbus code10:54
jonwilI mean the dbus specs10:54
jonwilbut I cant find anything\10:54
jonwilin any case I suspect that if someone can figure out how to wire up the IncomingCBS signal and write a UI that does something with the data, it will be possible to have working Cell Broadcast on N90010:56
Jartzathat specifies what do those letters mean10:58
Jartzay = BYTE, i = INT32 etc...10:59
Jartzaand there can also be arrays of things etc10:59
Jartzaay = array of bytes...10:59
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jonwilyeah I got it now11:01
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jonwilthe array of bytes is obviously the actual SMS message11:03
jonwilbut the rest (uint32, uint32, byte, byte, byte) is totally unknown11:03
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Jartzasome status codes maybe11:04
SpeedEvilthere will be a byte for CBS channel11:05
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jonwilyeah I would imagine so11:06
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psycho_oreosany of you guys do unofficial language translations?11:10
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp does I think sometimes.11:11
psycho_oreosor know how to deal with localedef? :)11:11
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SpeedEvilHe's not here right now though.11:11
psycho_oreosbah, thanks :/11:11
jonwilI posted the most recent info to bug 834711:12
povbotBug Cell Broadcast Feature not available11:12
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jonwilNow that we know exactly what the CBSMS code is doing, the chance that we can convince some Nokia people to provide some docs for the IncomingCBS signal is increased IMO11:34
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SpeedEvilAre you actually seeing CBSMS mesages on dbus?11:36
SpeedEvilOr are they just the 'setup' or 'message available' ones?11:36
jonwilsomeone said the relavent signal is being signaled11:36
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jonwilor rather that the function inside csd-sms is being called11:36
RobbieThe1stIt's a very bad idea to try to backup an OS partition when it's running off that partition, right?11:39
psycho_oreosRobbieThe1st, yes11:40
RobbieThe1stpsycho_oreos: Can you give me some good references why not? I believe it.11:40
RobbieThe1stSpeedEvil: Maemo, specificially11:41
SpeedEvilIf you copy the files as files, then it's typically no worse than switching off at a random time11:41
SpeedEvilHowever, you can get pathalogical cases - for example - you're backing up a directory.11:41
SpeedEvilSomething moves the files from it into an earlier directory you've already backed up11:41
psycho_oreosRobbieThe1st, because if lets say the backup stuff uses the stuff that also belongs to the OS being backed up, it may cause issues when being copied11:42
RobbieThe1stSo, we've got a library. It's being used by the OS. When we try to copy it...?11:43
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: It works fine.11:43
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: As root, the 'used by the OS' - at least in linux - argument tends to be weaker. As I understand it, it's stronger on windows.11:43
RobbieThe1stAlright... On Windows, I think we have the Volume Shadow Copy service to solve that... But that's beside the point11:44
RobbieThe1stMy problem is that someone on my BackupMenu topic has the "great idea" that he ought to be able to just backup the rootfs while the system is running.11:45
RobbieThe1stI'm not sure what exactly to say. It doesn't seem like a good idea - I had trouble messing with it a while back..11:46
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SpeedEvilIt will typically usually work.11:49
SpeedEvil(from my experience with 'normal' linux)11:49
SpeedEvilThe fun part is you can't tell when it breaks.11:49
RobbieThe1stah, yea11:49
SpeedEvilIn principle, you could drop to single-user mode11:49
SpeedEvilBut I'm unsure how well that works on n90011:49
Jartzaagh. can't get anything done today :)11:50
JartzaI'm just laughing my ass off for these "band shreds" from sts :)11:51
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Jartza etc :)11:52
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Venemohi guys12:30
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alteregoHey Venemo12:34
alteregoHey MohammadAG12:34
MohammadAGhey alterego12:34
MohammadAGJust popping in on holidays12:34
alteregoCool, doing anything fun with your time?12:34
MohammadAGAnything maemo related? guess not :p12:35
Venemogood morning MohammadAG :)12:35
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alteregoLooks like another quiet day ...13:14
Venemoalterego: it is13:15
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* alterego starts setting up an OBS13:16
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alteregoActually, I need to figure out how to disassemble this Nokia C713:18
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dm8tbralterego: what distro will you target with your obs?13:20
Venemoalterego: why do you wanna disassemble it?13:21
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alteregoVenemo: it's broken13:22
alteregodm8tbr: fremantle and meego handset13:22
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dm8tbralterego: you know about the intricacies of setting up for fremantle?13:23
ieatlinttake pictures if you disassemble the c7 :)13:24
alteregodm8tbr: I have an idea, it's more about research at the moment.13:25
alteregoieatlint: why? There are loads on the internet :P13:25
ieatlintoh ... ok then ... nm :)13:25
dm8tbrthere was something about qmake or so being x86 although it should be arm I can look it up if necessary13:25
SpeedEvil alterego13:25
ieatlintgo tell nokia to enable the nfc chip then13:26
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dm8tbrWe set up a test-OBS within Tieto and wrote down a few of the things we needed to do to make it work.13:26
alteregoI'm looking at a Nokia C7-00 RM-675 "Nokia Care Academy" Disassembly and Assembly PDF13:26
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RST38hYou are ready to disassemble your C7? So soon?13:33
alteregoIt's not mine13:34
alteregoAnd it's broken,.13:34
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JartzaIn Finland we have the saying, "Tieto lisää tuskaa"13:35
alteregoWhat does that mean13:35
JartzaKnowledge increases agony... or close to that :)13:36
* alterego kind of wants a "Nokia Standard Toolkit" (version 2)13:36
JartzaTieto == Knowledge13:36
Jartzait's a sort of like finnish equivalent to "Ignorance is a bliss" :)13:36
DocScrutinizerfor the ignorant only13:37
alteregoVery nice13:37
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jonwilTime to resume reverse engineering the USB status bar widget13:38
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alteregojonwil: why?13:41
jonwilsomeone posted a bug asking for it to be open sourced so it can be modified to do more13:41
jonwilspecifically being able to switch USB mode without unplugging and replugging the cable13:42
DocScrutinizernow that will be hard to implement13:42
jonwilso you say there is no point reverse engineering the USB plugin?13:43
jonwilstatus bar plugin13:43
DocScrutinizererr plugin?13:43
DocScrutinizeruhm, no idea. I just can tell you it's not that easy to tell USB to spoof a disconnect and the trigger a new ENUM at PC host13:44
alteregoYou don't need to use the usb plugin for that.13:44
alteregoAnd yeah, like DocScrutinizer said, unlikely that it'll even work.13:45
jonwilok, well I wont bother reverse engineering it then13:45
alteregojonwil: basically all the plugin does is insmod and rmmod either g_nokia or g_storage13:45
RobbieThe1stHm, out of curiosity, what brings up the "USB connected" interface when you plug in a USB cable? You know, the interface with "Mass Storage" and "PC Suite" modes13:45
DocScrutinizerg_nokia actually13:46
jonwilwell the usb widget plugin is doing some dbus calls13:47
alteregoCalls or making signals?13:47
jonwilbut yeah those appear to be dbus calls to load those modules13:47
RobbieThe1stI'm just curious as to how hard it would be to edit it - Once we have JRBME, it would be nice to have a "slow-charge/"fast charge" button on that interface - i.e. 500ma /max.13:47
alteregoHard to edit, easy to replace.13:48
DocScrutinizertalk to MohammadAG to augment h-e-n GUI to include that13:48
DocScrutinizeractually h-e-n GUI is about to become jrbme GUI anyway13:48
jonwilI believe it is the that displays the UI in question13:48
jonwiland yes it looks like it would be easier to replace than to clone and edit13:49
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DocScrutinizerhave a nice sunday!13:49
RobbieThe1stDocScrutinizer: When h-e-n is installed, that comes up when any usb port is plugged in?13:49
jonwil"usb-plugin::Mass Storage mode button pressed" is comming from the USB plugin13:50
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jonwilso yes its definatly doing the UI in question :)13:50
alteregojonwil: I would have thought that was obvious, status bar plugins are pretty well documented.13:50
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jonwilok, so other things I am thinking of cloning include the internet status bar plugin (the one that does wifi) because someone said they wanted to add a wifi signal strength item to it13:58
jonwilalso the battery status bar applet sounds interesting13:58
jonwilalso maybe the wlan config dialogs13:59
jonwilWhats jrbme?13:59
* alterego connects his second N900 to the internet for the first time. :o13:59
jonwilBME clone?13:59
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jonwilok, I see now14:00
jonwilis jrbme intended to be a compatible clone (as in compatible with the higher level bits that talk to bme) or will those bits be replaced?14:01
alteregojonwil: Should be compatible.14:02
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jonwilso you mean that its intended to speak to libbmeipc in the same way as the nokia BME?14:03
alteregoI'd imagine so14:03
jonwilok, in that case it sounds like playing with libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme is pointless14:03
* alterego goes through removing all the balls from a clean N90014:04
alteregoJust noticed the MAC address for my N900 and my brothers share the same first three hex paris.14:05
alteregoThis new one is totally different14:05
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jonwilhmmm, still stuck on what to reverse engineer next14:12
asj__alterego: the first 3 octets are the mfg oui14:12
jonwilMaybe I will go back and finish the wlan status bar plugin14:12
alteregoasj__: yeah, I guess Nokia must have ran out of their allocation14:12
asj__alterego: basically it tells you who made it,t here's a lookup table for it14:12
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Venemojonwil: if you clone that, please make sure that the dialog it opens will work in portrait mode14:13
asj__alterego: or different plant, different run, who knows how they assign them14:13
jonwilwell my plan is to finish my 1:1 clone14:13
jonwiland let someone else enhance it14:13
alteregojonwil: portrait mode is ~1 line of code :P14:14
alteregoSeriously, just do it.14:14
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asj__wow nokia has 211 ouis14:14
alteregoasj__: :)14:15
alteregoasj__: they have a lot of devices.14:15
alteregoPhones are more popular than computers ffs14:15
alteregoI wonder how popular phones with wifi are14:15
jonwilphones with wifi are getting more and more popular14:16
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alteregoBut still Nokias most sold phones don't have wifi14:16
asj__alterego: between wifi, bt, etc.  Each oui is 16million devices though14:16
alterego(At least I'd hazzard a guess at that being the case)14:16
asj__probably fair, a lot of symbian phones are nothing more than feature phones14:18
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jacekowskimy sisters android crap have failed miserably14:19
jacekowskiand now she has black cross on lcd and14:19
jonwilFrom the looks of things, the tv out applet has already been copied14:20
jonwilthe USB app has already been covered14:20
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alteregoasj__: I'm talking series 40, not even Symbian :)14:21
alteregoSymbian are still Nokia high end really. Most sales for Nokia are supposedly cheap Series 40 handsets.14:21
asj__alterego: mmm, but I remember the number of symbian phones last quarter or year was some huge millions14:21
alteregoAdmittedly they will all probably have bluetooth.14:21
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jonwilEven lower end phones these days have bluetooth14:21
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jonwilbecause its cheap to add14:22
alteregoasj__: sure, Nokia do sell a lot of phones ;)14:22
jonwiland it provides a great upsell selling car kits, headsets etc14:22
jonwilnot to mention that more and more countries are requiring bluetooth handsfree use when driving14:22
jonwilwell handsfree anyway14:22
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fserIs maemo only for N900?14:22
asj__3 points and $250 here14:22
keriojonwil: well, nobody uses wired proprietary handsfree14:23
* jonwil used it the other day14:23
jonwilbut as antenna for the FM radio app :P14:23
alteregofser: in short, yes.14:23
jonwilNot sure whether I should clone the battery status bar app, the wlan status bar app, another status bar app (although none of the others seem worth doing), the wlan config dialogs, hald-addon-bme, libbmeipc, more work on the CBSMS stuff or what14:24
fserbecause I've not found much information about that14:24
alteregofser: actually, no, the Nokia N900 is the current (and last Maemo) device, we've had four before the N900, the Nokia 770, the Nokia N800, Nokia N810 and Nokia N810 WiMax14:24
jonwillooking for something to reverse engineer, clone, document, figure out or pull to bits that the dev community are going to care about14:24
alteregojonwil: GPS14:25
jonwilGPS is too hard14:25
alteregoSpecifically, getting and setting agps data14:25
jonwilits all done via a daemon containing a mountain of hard-to-copy algorithins14:25
alteregopfft :P14:25
jonwilactually, let me take another look14:25
jacktheripperI see a GSoC student almost completed porting canola2 to maemo5. I just can't find the source tree or a new package.14:25
jonwilwhats canola2?14:26
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alteregojonwil: Canola is a media player application developed by a company that were setup by Nokia to do research and development.14:27
alteregoIt's a pretty media player at that.14:27
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alteregoUsing (I believe) E17 graphics libraries.14:27
jonwilok, GPS stuff is done through location-daemon package14:27
jonwillocation-daemon talks to liblas14:27
jonwil"A dynamic library(LIBLAS) provides services for a communication between OSSO and CellMo Location Server."14:27
jonwilliblas depends on libisi to talk to cellmo14:28
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jonwilMight be worth digging into liblas then14:28
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jonwilfigure out how to talk to liblas14:28
jacktheripperwell this seems like good news. But the source tree is down.
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jonwilnope, liblas and location-daemon is too complex to figure out14:39
jonwilactually, it might be possible to figure out the packets liblas sends to libicd and hence the cellmodem14:40
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RST38hIs mikecomputing a troll, or is he just fresh and eager to chat?14:40
alteregoWell, we've already had progress starting and stopping GPS, as well as decoding the data the GPS sends out.14:40
alteregoWhat we're lacking is the ability to do agps functionality.14:40
alteregoI managed to find out how to get the agps data, but putting it into the gps is something I've not looked into yet.14:41
jonwilhow did you get the AGPS data?14:41
jonwilso you dont know what daemon or library is dealing with it?14:42
jonwiland what is this in aid of?14:42
alteregoDoesn't matter.14:42
jonwilreplacing the telephony stack with something free?14:42
alteregoAn open GPS driver14:42
jonwilopen GPS would be good for MeeGo14:42
alteregoThis has nothing to do with telephony, we already have an open one with ofono14:43
jonwilbut AGPS ties into telephony]14:43
alteregoAs the current state of N900 GPS in MeeGo is exactly what we have in maemo14:43
alteregoSo it's closed.14:43
jonwilbecause of how AGPS works14:43
alteregoNo it doesn't.14:43
jonwiloh ok, I thought it used the towers to help improve the GPS data14:43
alteregoIt ties into telephony as far as your cellid14:43
jonwiloh ok14:43
alteregoIt uses towers to get a rough idea of where on Earth you are.14:43
alteregoThat information is then added to a HTTP connection to a nokia server which replies with the appropriate ephemeris data.14:44
jonwilin any case as the GPS is attached to the cell modem, you presumably talk to it via phonet/isi, right?14:44
alteregoThat data is then some how injected into the GPS14:44
jonwilok, so how do you talk to it?14:44
* alterego tries to find the source.14:44
alteregoAng on14:44
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alteregoYes, it is phonet ;)14:45
alteregoHad a brain fart moment.14:46
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jonwildo you happen to know the name of the nokia AGPS server?14:48
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alteregoWhich then resolves to something like:
alteregoRegardless you talk to it on port 8014:49
* jonwil greps his n900 filedump for that host to find out who is talking to it14:49
jonwilfrom there, I can find out where the data goes14:49
jonwilas in what phonet calls get made14:49
alteregoThat would be great :)14:50
MohammadAGAngry birds is kinda cool on the ps314:50
MohammadAGcept for the shitty controls14:50
MohammadAGthe fps is high14:50
jonwilok, looks like that server name comes from a gconf config14:51
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MohammadAGyep, set from Settings > Location14:51
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jonwilsaid gconf config claims to be owned by "liblocation"14:51
jonwilas neither liblas nor location-daemon call gconf, it must be liblocation then14:52
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* alterego downloads windows 714:53
alteregoDoes Ovi suite work okay with windows 7 64 bit?14:53
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alteregobtw, this isn't illegal, I've got an MSDN license ^.^14:53
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MohammadAGalterego, yes14:54
alteregoMohammadAG: thanks14:54
MohammadAGalterego, and if you do download win 7 x64, can you do me a favor? :P14:54
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alteregoMohammadAG: what's that?14:54
MohammadAGNeed some dlls to fix my broken install14:55
jonwilok, nope, its not liblocation either14:55
Appiahis there no way to set the musicplayer to fade out/in to next track?14:55
MohammadAGAppiah, no14:55
MohammadAGmafw can be edited to do so I guess14:55
Appiahmafw is that another musicplayer?14:55
MohammadAGno, it's the backend14:56
jonwiloh wait, it is liblocation14:56
jonwilor not14:57
jonwilno its liblocation_applet14:57
jonwilno, wait, thats what sets it14:57
MohammadAGas I set a shitload of lines above :P14:58
jonwilBINGO. Location_Proxy is where I need to look14:59
jonwilhmmm, that package installs a SMS handler called supl_mt_sms.handler15:00
jonwilwhich passes certain SMS messages to location-proxy or so15:01
AppiahGuess I'll make a feature request15:01
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jonwilyep, definatly location-proxy is doing the supl stuff15:04
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AppiahMohammadAG: your opinion , should I request the feature in multimedia framework or the mediaplayer?15:07
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trumeedoes fmms allow receiving of video messages?15:16
* trumee has a feeling this question must have been asked thousand times before :p15:17
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jonwilok, looking into the code I can see it sending a request to an isi/phonet resource with a resource ID of 0x5415:24
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jonwilwhich is a resource ID not documented in anything I have...15:25
jonwileverything in liblas sends to that resource ID15:26
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jonwilMy guess is that Nokia has never documented the isi/phonet interface related to GPS/AGPS15:28
jonwiland therefore the only way forward is to reverse engineer location-daemon and liblas15:30
jonwilor to ask Nokia for some documentation on the phonet interface for GPS/AGPS (which since its for MeeGo and not Maemo is more likely to succeed)15:30
Gyjfso, whats the deal with meego?15:33
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dm8tbrjonwil: one problem can be that anything related to the nl_somethingsomething chipset seems to be NDA by TI15:34
dm8tbrand official TI statement was that there will never be any public documentation or code from them15:34
Gyjfcan it natively run maemo programs? can it run on the n900? hows the driver suppoer?15:34
jonwilMy guess is TI need to keep the GPS stuff closed because of the heavy government regulation surrounding GPS15:35
DocScrutinizer51jonwil: could you find out about exact format (of at least trigger) of that SMS that supl_mt_sms.handler is messing around with?15:35
dm8tbrjonwil: that's also my guess15:35
jonwilCant find out more about that SMS, its all tied up inside sms-manager15:37
DocScrutinizer51jonwil: nah, the GPS restrictions from gvmt are negligable15:37
jonwilisnt there a rule about civilian GPS that you have to make sure it wont operate in ways that would allow it to be used for weapons15:38
jonwile.g. using it for the targeting system of a missile15:38
DocScrutinizer51also note that you're talking to cellmo and its firmware, not to the gps chip directly15:38
jonwilhmmm yeah good pointh15:38
jonwilgood point15:38
jonwileither way, someone from the MeeGo camp should talk to the right people at Nokia and see what they say. The worst that can happen is that nokia says "no we cant reveal the isi interface for GPS because of NDA"15:39
DocScrutinizer51and the restrictions you refer to are more like no <$$$$$ commercial chipset is able to violate them15:39
dm8tbrbtw: I think there is already movement WRT the GPS15:40
BCMMjonwil: civilian GPS chips won't work above a certain altitude or speed15:40
dm8tbror atleast plans. I seem to remember that 'will be like SGX' though15:40
alteregodm8tbr: in MeeGo, yes, but it's the same closed system we have for Maemo15:40
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alteregoAnd that, will simply not do :)15:40
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BCMMjonwil: it prevents use as a ballstic missile guidance system, but they can't do much about cruise missiles since they effectively behave like any other aircraft15:41
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* RST38h makes a mental note: that ballistic approach should probably be scrapped in favor of the multiple cruise missile system.15:44
jonwilok, looking at liblas, it registers a bunch of callback handlers for the GPS resource ID. One of these is for the message 0x92 described in the reverse engineering document15:44
jonwilthis is wired to a function called hybrid_tracking_ntf15:45
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jonwilso yeah I think we need to either A.Do a LOT more logging of the GPS packets as sent to the cellmo and reverse engineer a lot more packet types15:48
jonwilas sent in both directions15:48
jonwilB.Reverse engineer liblas and its users directly15:48
jonwilwhich is hard15:49
jonwilor C.Ask Nokia for some docs on the cellmo GPS protocol and hope they can help (which is IMO unlikely)15:49
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jacekowskisomebody here reversed that protocol15:51
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alteregojacekowski: not the agps parts ..15:52
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jacekowskiagps is handled by rapuyama itself15:54
alteregojacekowski: what do you base that on?15:54
jacekowskiagps code in rapuyama firmware15:55
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alteregoSo there's agps stuff in the cmt?15:55
jacekowskilet me get another laptop out15:55
jacekowskibut you can search for example for agps server addresses15:56
jonwilGPS from the host point of view involves sending ISI packets to ISI resource 0x5415:56
alteregoAnyhow, in which case, we need a little blob that can provide agps data to cellmo, and handle requests for agps data.15:57
jacekowskicellmo can get it's own agps data15:57
alteregoNo it can't.15:57
jacekowskiyes it can15:57
alteregoIt needs network connection15:57
jacekowskiit's a modem15:57
alteregoworking DNS server address.15:57
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keriojacekowski: wifi15:58
jacekowskithat can run whole phone15:58
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jacekowskiyou can't do agps on wifi15:58
alteregoSo you're saying it has an ip stack built in?15:58
alteregojacekowski: yes you can.15:58
jonwilwhat we need is some info (reverse engineered or otherwise) on what the format of the different messages that can be sent to/from resource 0x5415:58
alteregothe cellmo doesn't handle the agps request to
jonwilthat request is handled by the location-proxy daemon\15:59
alteregoIt either asks a service to do it, or the service (liblocation) does it anyway and injects the data into the cellmo.15:59
infobotalterego meant: It either asks a service to do it, or the service (liblocation) does it anyway and injects the data into the gps.15:59
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jonwilliblocation has nothing to do with agps16:01
jonwileverything GPS is done by calls made to liblas by locartion-proxy and lication-daemon16:01
alteregojonwil: I'm using "liblocation" as an umbrella term for all of that crap sorry :P16:02
jonwiloh ok16:02
alteregoNokia user space, closed GPS services.16:02
alteregoand libraries16:02
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alteregoI'm guessing the cellmo stuff jacekowski found in cmt is probably something completely different.16:03
alteregoI'd imagine it's related to Nokia remote back door :D16:03
jonwilI think best way forward is to ask Nokia for isi GPS packet format (i.e. resource type 0x54) and if we cant get that, ask for liblas header files16:04
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alteregoHaving liblas headers doesn't really help16:04
alteregoWe're still stuck with a closed gps16:04
jonwilit does16:04
jonwilit makes it much easier to reverse engineer the GPS isi packets16:05
jonwilat least for me it would16:05
alteregoI don't see how.16:06
jonwiltrust me, it would :)16:06
jonwilbut yeah asking for the isi GPS packet info would be the best way to go16:06
jonwilthe worst that can happen is that Nokia says no to sharing that packet info16:06
alteregoWe managed to get the information on the wiki page without liblas headers ..16:06
jonwilwell yeah thats brute-reverse-engineering of the TCP packets16:07
jonwilwhich for some people is easy16:07
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jonwilbut I wouldn't know where to start with that16:07
alteregoYeah, I didn't find it too hard :P16:07
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infobotwell, strace is a system-calls tracer. spits out a useful trace to stderr. To trace the command 'cmd with params' use: 'strace cmd with params'16:07
alteregostfu infobot16:07
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jonwilbut yeah someone with the contacts should ask Nokia for that info16:08
alteregoI'll ask16:08
alteregoOn Thursday16:08
JJ_BramI was wondering if anyone has added the ability to send txts to contact groups yet. I've com across a lot of brain storms about it and a lot of threads bringing it up but can't find any sign of an implementation.16:08
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alteregoJJ_Bram: we don't have contact groups16:09
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ArGGu^^is there way to catch QKeyEvent from the virtual keyboard?16:09
JJ_BramHow hard would that be to do?16:09
alteregoArGGu^^: say what you're trying to do, that question doesn't make much sense.16:10
alteregoArGGu^^: unless you're talking about implementing 'keyPressEvent(QKeyEvent *event)' virtual function in your widget subclass ..16:10
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DocScrutinizeralterego: do not shout at infobot!16:12
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JJ_BramIs the contacts app nokia closed source?16:13
ArGGu^^alterego I have keyReleaseEvent but I don't get any event when using virtual keyboard16:13
DocScrutinizeralterego: we won't redefine attention key, just to meet your weird usage patterns16:13
alteregoArGGu^^: that's because the virtual keyboard doesn't work like the keyboard does.16:13
alteregoArGGu^^: you're going to have to look at how the vkb works.16:14
ArGGu^^And QLineEdit wont emit returnpressed with virtual keyboard :S16:14
jonwilSomeone with some contacts should try and ask Nokia about the IncomingCBS dbus signal :P16:14
DocScrutinizerJJ_Bram: afaik yes16:15
JJ_BramWell, that would explain why we don't have contact groups then...16:15
DocScrutinizerJJ_Bram: that explains a lot of brainfart. Also e.g. why it's been so incredibly hard to implement per-contact ringtones16:16
JJ_BramAnd how about the app that handles sending sms?16:16
jonwilEverything related to SMS is nokia-closed-source16:17
jonwilas is everything related to making phone call16:17
jonwilits all inter-related16:17
jonwiland all closed16:17
DocScrutinizeras is contacts, and calendar16:17
alteregoWell, that's not entirely true16:17
alteregocontacts and calendar use evolution backend.16:17
JJ_BramAny chance they will open it up now that they are moving on to meego?16:18
alteregoAnd the contacts lib, which is basically an evo wrapper is foss16:18
jonwilthe move to meego means even less likelyhood of opening stuff up16:18
jonwilOpening this stuff up would require opening up the telephony stack16:18
alteregoSure, but these things are mostly open in MeeGo16:18
DocScrutinizerjust because they suck16:18
alteregoAt least in MeeGo we have working free user space apps :)16:18
JJ_BramGreat...but I don't have the money for a new phone and I like this one lol. Plus who knows when they will actually have a meego phone out.16:19
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alteregoJJ_Bram: I run MeeGo on an N90016:19
DocScrutinizerand N900-meego isn't really ready for primetime as I get it16:19
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alteregoNo, definitely not prime time ready :)16:20
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JJ_Bramalterego, you said the contacts lib was open source, does that mean it can be replaced? Is it just a framework or would I be able to make changes in it?16:20
alteregoBut tbh, meego-handset with all the FOSS stuff isn't really ready for primetime. The UX just isn't brilliant in the apps department yet.16:20
alteregoJJ_Bram: no, because then the contacts app will not work.16:20
alteregoWell, depending how contacts app is written.16:21
alteregoWe have the ability to add items into the contacts app menu bar though, which is useful for something like this ..16:21
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DocScrutinizerprobably you don't want to replace backend anyway16:21
DocScrutinizerrather frontend16:21
alteregoExactly, there's no point in replacing backend as it's all open anyway.16:21
DocScrutinizerand I hate the idea of a menu item for assigning a contact to a group16:22
JJ_BramWell right now I need contact group functionality. So either I spend $40 a month and get internet access so I can use gvmax to send group messages from my google voice number or I find a way to get this working. lol16:22
JJ_BramWhy do you hate the idea of a menu item for  assigning a contact to a group?16:23
DocScrutinizerI'd suggest you go with the 40$16:23
DocScrutinizerbecause that's not how it is supposed to work16:23
DocScrutinizerit should be a normal field16:23
DocScrutinizerbut the lack of ability to define new custom fields forbids a clean approach for that16:24
alteregotbh, I don't even like evolution16:25
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jonwilok, so I give up reverse engineering GPS then, its too hard16:25
alteregoA contact database should have the ability to add as many fields with (types) as you want.16:25
alteregotypes should be string, enum, phone number etc.16:25
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alteregoThen we could do what ever we wanted :)16:26
DocScrutinizeralterego: ack16:27
alteregoI'm almost tempted to write one.16:27
alteregoA semantic contacts database.16:27
DocScrutinizeradd to that list of generic types a "pim-object"16:28
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JJ_BramBut then what the heck could we do with it? Would we ever be able to plug it into the basic telephone operations and make it functional?16:28
DocScrutinizerlike it points to a calendar appointment, e.g for birthday16:29
alteregoYeah, then you could attach locations, groups, other contacts (family, friends, cool for facebook integration), calendar entries.16:29
JJ_Bram(I suppose so given that we have command line ability to make calls etc)16:29
jonwilUnless someone wants to write a replacement for rtcom-messaging-ui and rtcom-call-ui, I dont think what you want is possible16:29
jonwilnot plugging it into the UI16:29
alteregoImagine if your phone book had the information from facebook about your friends and your friends friends.16:29
DocScrutinizercalendar could have an object field containing a pointer to a contact, subtype phone, if you plan to call that person when the appointment is due16:30
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alteregoYou could also, through google or exchange calendar, look at someones shared calendar, so when you attempt to ring them it'd say "Well, actually they're busy at the moment, would you like me to notify when they should be available?"16:31
JJ_BramIt might be time for me to bust out my QT interface designer again if you make that db...16:31
DocScrutinizerany number of contacts could point to a group contact object16:31
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alteregoOf course, it'd all be habtm, so any number of contacts could associate with any number of other objects.16:31
alterego"has and belongs to many" it's a relational database term, sorry ;)16:32
jonwilok, so the GPS is going nowhere unless someone with more skills appears or unless Nokia decides to share info.16:33
DocScrutinizerlook at contacts app, menu. You see three radiobuttons: "ABC" "Status" "LRU"16:33
DocScrutinizeradd to that arbitrary other filters, like for groups (contacts that have a certain object pointer)16:34
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alteregoSure, and you can also use all the apps, like calendar, maps etc to link back to contacts.16:35
DocScrutinizererr s/LRU/MRU/ (or just RU)16:35
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alteregoSo, you look at calendar, 2nd of the 2nd 2010, you see that you're going to the Cambridge MeeGo Network meetup, you see a list of other contacts that are going to the same event, and you can group sms them all.16:36
alteregoOr group message them on facebook.16:36
alteregoOr group email.16:36
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JJ_BramWell, until you actually have enough motivation/time to build all that out I think I may have come up witha  temporary solution for myself. We can already sync google contacts using the exchange sync, any chance that can bring in contact groups as a list of contacts in them? I can make a basic app that just displays the contact groups from google, allows you to enter an sms and then sends the sms via dbus and just loops through everyone.16:36
JJ_BramWorse case this can be managed completely separately.16:37
alteregoJJ_Bram: you'll probably have to do that yes.16:37
JJ_BramAll right, now all I need is a free weekend or two.16:37
JJ_BramIs there any way to at least tap into the contacts db?16:38
DocScrutinizerJJ_Bram: there's no UI and no concept at all in contacts frontend for that. I'd not even see how it would import and display groups16:38
alteregoJJ_Bram: you can talk to it directly through evolution or hte contacts lib.16:38
JJ_BramDocScrutinizer, Yeah, I'm getting that. It'd have to be entirely separate.16:39
JJ_BramSo I could build a menu that lets you go through current contacts, select them, and add them to a  group then?16:39
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alteregoBut how would you know, afterwards, what groups a contact was in?16:40
JJ_Bram(groups being something like a flat file list of names/numbers for now witha  title)16:40
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JJ_BramWhat's the easiest db to use here? I don't like the idea of a flat file db too much.16:41
DocScrutinizeralterego: as an extremely nasty botch you could add special comment fields to a contact16:41
alteregoDocScrutinizer: yeah, I suppose that'd work.16:41
DocScrutinizeror a "nickname"16:41
alteregoOr you could cycle through ever avatar image and add your group icon to it :D16:41
JJ_BramI was just thinking click on the group name in the app and it gives a list of contacts in it.16:42
JJ_BramYou can only use/edit it from there anyway...16:42
alteregoJJ_Bram: yeah, you should be able to do that in your own "groups" app16:42
DocScrutinizerI suggested the avatar img approach to barisione for his contact-ringtones16:42
JJ_BramIf I built this do you think people would want it?16:43
DocScrutinizerit's be nice anyway if it would base on contacts backend though16:43
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JJ_BramAlright, well then, I know what I'm doing when I get my phone back from nokia repair.16:43
jonwilhmmm, I know what I could reverse engineer. I could reverse engineer those bits of the WiFi stuff that are still closed source in meego (libwl1251, libppu, wl1251-cal)16:44
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ArGGu^^why I get error 'QValueSpaceSubscriber' was not declared in this scope. I have added all should be needed to .pro file and included the QValueSpaceSubscriber16:44
alteregoHah, just ordered something from and the order number starts with "O2"16:44
* alterego chuckles16:44
DocScrutinizerWTF?! those are closed in meEgo?!16:44
jonwilyes they are16:45
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jonwilpresumably because of TI NDA for wifi chip16:45
jonwilor FCC regs regarding wifi configs16:45
jonwili.e. the need to have stuff in the CAL related to each individual device wifi chip16:45
DocScrutinizernah, FCC is unlikely to interfere here16:45
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DocScrutinizerLOL for the CAL shit16:46
jonwilmaybe I will clone libcal whilst I am at it...16:47
jonwillibcal isnt majorly complex16:47
jonwiljust closed for whatever Nokia reason16:47
DocScrutinizerthough I heard it's been replaced by system-info or whatever16:47
jonwilon meego libcal still exists16:47
jonwilits used by that wifi daemon if nothing else16:48
DocScrutinizerprobably still needed for bme :-P16:48
alteregoDocScrutinizer: most certainly.16:48
jonwilbme isnt using libcal16:48
jonwiloh wait it is16:49
jonwilmy mistake16:49
jonwilI was looking at the wrong package16:49
jonwilso based on the current meego-closed-bins the only users there of libcal are bme and wl1251-cal16:50
jonwilsome of the open stuff may also use it16:50
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jonwillike dsme16:50
DocScrutinizerfor historical reasons16:50
jonwilin any case I think cloning libcal, wl1251-cal, libppu and libwl1251 might be worth doing16:51
jonwilas they are all used on meego16:51
jonwiland all closed16:51
DocScrutinizerafaik dsme is just reading thermic profile from CAL16:51
lxp1jonwil: i recently ported the netlink interface used by libwl1251/wl1251-cal to the wireless-testing wl1251 driver16:52
DocScrutinizerseems they had a thermo mgmt profile for certification purposes, and a normal one X-P16:52
jonwilso is cloning that set of packages worth it or not?16:53
DocScrutinizeryou might want to chat with lxm(?) though16:53
DocScrutinizerlxp :-D16:53
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jonwillxp is?16:54
lxp1< self-claimed wl1251 driver hacker16:54
DocScrutinizer...a nice and nifty hacker16:54
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pupnikheh lxp1 nice16:54
lxp1i got monitor mode and packet injection working with wl125116:54
DocScrutinizerlxp1: how's battle going at the warez front?16:55
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jonwilI think the goal should be to replace closed bins in MeeGo with open source clones wherever possible16:56
jonwileither by reverse engineering the closed bins16:56
jonwilor building something functionally equivilant16:56
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DocScrutinizeryeah. given the fact those drivers of lxp1 are open source, I can't see why the libs are closed on meego16:58
jonwilprobably those wl1251 bits are closed because they contain info thats under TI NDA16:58
lxp1jonwil: i don't think so16:59
pupnikhow is wl1251 reliability / speed working for you lxp1 ?16:59
DocScrutinizertime for 1264843016:59
lxp1reliability is good for me, speed could be better, but i haven't tried optimizing it so far17:00
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DocScrutinizerlxp1: may I ask how you managed to gather the required info/knowledge to implement that inj/moni modes?17:01
lxp1jonwil: as far as i know wl1251-cal only does read the calibration data through libcal and loads it into firmware through the wl1251 netlink interface17:01
javispedroit's the CAL area format what Nokia wants to protect, for some reason.17:01
lxp1DocScrutinizer: try and error17:01
lxp1+ reading some header files17:01
jonwilwell cloning the relavent stuff shouldn't be rocket science17:01
lxp1mostly already included in wl1251, but partly also from the tiwlan opensource driver17:02
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: which is absolute braindead notion of them17:02
javispedroand probably already fully known by now, isn't it? :P17:03
lxp1libwl1251 also implements some production line testing code17:03
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: prolly yes17:03
DocScrutinizerlxp1: heh17:03
lxp1maybe libwl1251 also implements the wl1251 calibration data generation (which may be covered by TI NDA)17:04
jonwilonly users of libwl2141 on Fremantle are wl2151-cal and testserver17:07
jonwiltestserver being the production line test thing17:07
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lxp1yeah, i think testserver is used for calibration data generation and saving it to cal space17:08
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lxp1wl1251-cal then only loads the saved calibration data17:08
jonwilprobably hence why testserver is closed and why a bunch of the stuff it uses (like libwl125117:09
jonwilis also closed17:09
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DocScrutinizerand isn't it funny they ship this testserver with standard maemo image?17:11
lxp1by the way, has already someone tried to use an external usb wlan card with the N900?17:12
DocScrutinizerumm, should17:12
DocScrutinizerI seem to recall somebody trying to build the needed drivers for his wlan-dongle17:13
lxp1i am planning to package compat-wireless for kernel-power17:13
alteregoI managed to build mine in scratchbox, haven't tested yet though.17:13
alteregoI don't have a usb host capable kernel at the moment.17:13
alteregoI guess now I have 2 N900s I can sacrifice one to it ;)17:14
DocScrutinizerlxp1: you mean h-e-n kernel? :-P17:14
lxp1i haven't tested host mode at all17:14
jonwilwhy would you want to use an external wlan with n900?17:14
DocScrutinizerheh, we'Re developers, we don't test other shit - we test our own crap ;-D17:15
lxp1maybe because the internal card is not powerful enough ;)17:15
pupnikoh really17:15
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DocScrutinizerlxp1: for all that matters to your usecase anyway, h-e-n "just works"17:16
DocScrutinizeri.e. nothing h-e-n related to test there17:17
lxp1that's good to hear17:18
DocScrutinizerwell, on a second thought that's not entirely correct. There are limitations in badwidth mgmnt of USB, and isochronous mode, with h-e-n17:19
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DocScrutinizerI don't think that's relevant to a WLAN dongle, but who knows17:20
lxp1jonwil: i am just thinking about if the whole libwl1251/wl1251-cal stuff can be replaced by something else17:20
lxp1because i am afraid the wl1251 netlink interface will not be accepted upstream17:20
lxp1(linux kernel)17:21
javispedrolxp1: maybe it just reads reg/value pairs from cal and writes them to wl12xx =)17:21
DocScrutinizer:-/ why?17:21
javispedroDocScrutinizer: it's a propietary driver "bypass"-like thing.17:21
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lxp1normally the calibration data file (wl1251-nvs) is read from disk17:22
lxp1that's what is already implemented in the upstream driver17:22
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DocScrutinizerhmm, should be easy enough to read out the calib data from CAL, maybe via strace, and write it to such a file17:22
lxp1and the netlink interface is practically only used to push this nvs file into the driver17:23
jonwilin any case I think the best way is to clone these things (so we understand the format of the relavent data) and then we can figure out what we do with the clone later17:23
jonwilthis will at least document the stuff in the CAL17:23
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DocScrutinizergood point17:23
lxp1yeah there is another odd thing, what was the main reason to port this netlink interface to wireless-testing17:23
lxp1the wl1251 driver generates a random mac address while loading17:24
javispedroand how does the upstream one get its mac?17:24
lxp1it doesn't get it at all on the n90017:24
lxp1that's why i ported the netlink interface17:24
lxp1the mac address is later set by wl1251-cal17:25
lxp1which reads it from cal space17:25
javispedroyeah, but I ponder what's the upstreamy way17:25
javispedroifconfig hwaddr ....17:25
lxp1and wl1251-cal is called by wlancond17:25
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DocScrutinizerlet me guess.. closed as well17:25
lxp1usually the mac address should be read by the driver from some eeprom17:26
lxp1wlancond is open17:26
javispedroDocScrutinizer: no, wlancond is open.17:26
javispedroit does little stuff though, even less since fremantle.17:26
DocScrutinizerwell, CAL *is* a sortof eeprom ;-)17:26
lxp1yeah, but how to read cal from a kernel driver?17:27
* javispedro thinks that is a no go either.17:27
DocScrutinizerit's probably easy, but not feasible for Nokia as they'd need to open up the source then ;-D17:27
alteregoWell, they can't open up cal17:28
alteregoAs it has all sorts of things that are there for security.17:28
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alteregoIsn't all the lock code stuff in CAL?17:28
javispedroalso I guess it's shared with some symbian devices17:28
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DocScrutinizeryeah, BS. And you can get rid of it by simply doing a >/dev/mtdblk3 or sth17:29
javispedroindeed =)17:29
DocScrutinizeralterego: actually lockcode is stored in CAL as well17:29
jonwilwell a clone of libcal may be on my todo list...17:29
jonwilwhich would make that issue a moot point :P17:30
javispedrocal is a record-structured storage area17:30
javispedroand libcal probably handles that17:30
javispedrohow each record is structured is probably left to the individual callers17:30
jonwilyeah good point17:30
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DocScrutinizerand CAL is OS agnostic. The flasher tools used by service centers are the same for all Nokia phones - that's why a lot of stupid meaningless things are stored to it, to keep compatibility with SOP in service centers. See ALS calibration17:32
javispedroin fact, I kinda remember libcal got opened....... :S17:32
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DocScrutinizerI still keep to suggest comaring CAL to uBoot's ENV17:33
alteregoAre you saying it might be possible to unlock an N900 that has a lock code?17:33
javispedrobut meego still considers it a blob so I guess it never happened...17:33
javispedro( )17:33
javispedro^^^ list of blobs in meego btw17:33
alteregoMeeGo doesn't handle lock codes :)17:33
javispedroyeah I'm talking about libcal itself17:33
alteregoI have that page being monitored for liblocation btw :)17:34
javispedroI'm quite sure It was once put as an example of something that got opened (libcal)17:34
alteregoAs it should be popping up quite soon :)17:34
* javispedro looks it up..17:34
povbotBug 4874: Publically document CAL config entries in /dev/mtd1 config area17:34
javispedrostskeeps you lier17:35
DocScrutinizeralterego: see (lockcode)17:35
javispedroalterego: liblocation? why? I though gypsy was being touted as the replacement??17:35
alteregojavispedro: and on the N900 it has a liblocation backend.17:36
javispedroand they're opening the liblocation stack?17:36
alteregojavispedro: for agps support, obviously17:36
alteregoHence why I'm waiting for it to be in that closed area.17:36
javispedroyes, another blob, that makes sense =)17:36
DocScrutinizeralterego: guess what's the value at that AES(?) key's location in a virgin N900!  --  12345!17:37
alteregojavispedro: I don't know whether the intention is that the GPS in MeeGo N900 is to be open, we all want it to be, but it depends on the Nokia guys doing it.17:37
javispedroalterego: It will never be open. Nokia has "strategic interest" in their location stuff.17:37
alteregojavispedro: maybe ..17:37
javispedrothey probably don't want us to know they send nearest Wi-Fi AP's BSSIDs along with geocoordinates every few seconds.17:37
alteregoDocScrutinizer: that is brilliant.17:37
javispedro(like google does btw)17:37
alteregoDocScrutinizer: so basically, lock_code is meaningless on the N900 now for us :)17:38
DocScrutinizeras soon as you teach 0xFFFF to alter arbitrary CAL records, yes17:38
alteregoWell, once you've cracked the lock code, you can use it ..17:39
alteregoWe don't need to write it, can use the UI to write it once you've unlocked it.17:39
DocScrutinizeryeah, it's enough to read out arbitrary (or all) CAL records17:39
javispedrostupid, stupid.17:40
DocScrutinizerstill you need a way to do that, via NOLO17:40
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jonwilI think the most likely outcome re GPS would be for Nokia to document the phonet/isi messages for GPS, if anything. Anything sensitive or related to their "product differentiation" stuff would either be closed source in the cell modem or closed source in the userspace libs17:41
alteregojonwil: again, don't care about isi17:42
alteregoJust need the navilink protocol17:42
DocScrutinizeralterego: eh?17:42
javispedroit would be useful for n8x0, but n900? cellmo probably abstracts it..17:42
alteregoOh :/17:42
DocScrutinizeryou bet it does17:42
jonwilyou cant talk to the GPS on the N900 except by sending the cellmo isi packets17:42
javispedrowell, it might have a bypass mode =)17:42
javispedro(who knows...)17:42
alteregojavispedro: that's what I was hoping.17:42
jonwiland no I doubt there is a way to directly talk to the GPS chip17:43
DocScrutinizerjavispedro knows17:43
alteregoWait, so we have navilink protocol17:43
alteregoWe just can't talk directly to the GPS serial port as the cellmo is in the way.17:43
DocScrutinizeror maybe jacekowski knows even better17:43
alteregoMakes sense, for some reason I'd not actually considered that being what was going on :D17:43
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alteregoSo we're talking lame Nokia GPS protocol.17:43
javispedroI'm not sure we have full navilink proto either.17:44
alteregoWhen we reverse engineered that stuff on the wiki.17:44
alteregojavispedro: I thought we were using the TI navilink based GPS chip?17:44
javispedroyes, but we don't know that proto either.17:44
DocScrutinizerthe "datasheet" of the GPS chip doesn't mention navilink17:44
SpeedEvilalterego: I am unsure there is a 'standalone' GPS chip.17:44
SpeedEvilalterego: I suspect it's using the cellmo for a baseband processor.17:45
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: definitely17:45
SpeedEvilSnooping the I2C bus of the GPS in principle would confirm this17:45
javispedroDocScrutinizer: oh, that's news for me :S. So it's not a TI chip?17:45
alteregoI heard it was a TI chip17:45
DocScrutinizererr it is17:45
alteregoI heard it was a Navilink 535017:45
SpeedEviljavispedro: I think it's something like
SpeedEvilwhich is a rather dumb RF front-end chip17:45
SpeedEvilThat just gives a few mbps bitstream and lets the baseband do all the hard signal processing stuff, completley digitally17:46
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DocScrutinizersorry, I mixed navilink with NMEA17:47
alteregoSo, this says it's a TO GPS5030 navilink 517:48
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javispedro(you might want to look up "gpsdriver" in this channel's logs if you're interested in the N8x0 GPS stuff, also TI, connected via UART to SoC directly instead of cellmo)17:49
javispedroI don't remember anyone going very far though... gpsdriver on N8x0 was much more of a beast than the location stack on N900 seemingly.17:50
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dm8tbrjavispedro: was it also a nl5350?17:51
DocScrutinizer>> Optimized to interface with TI’s 3G chipsets and OMAP™ processors to deliver a complete solution for handset OEMs<< makes me think it's actually offloading calculation to baseband or APE17:52
javispedrodm8tbr: I don't remember =)17:52
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: Archos generation7 hardware has the nl5350 connected to UART1 of the OMAP34xx and there is a android gpsd17:53
javispedroiirc TI gps5xxx something =)17:53
javispedrodm8tbr: free?17:53
DocScrutinizerplus the fact this N8x0 driver is (C) TI afaik, and a huge blob that seems to massively draw cpu cycles while GPSing17:53
chxsoftmodem of a sort?17:54
dm8tbrI mentioned already that TI officially said that everything will stay NDA17:54
chxie as there is no cellmo to offload the processing to, it does it in software17:54
dm8tbrI could check the sysload on the archos when GPS is on17:54
alteregoOkay, so what we really want is this crap Nokia GPS interface then.17:55
DocScrutinizercalled ISI 0x5917:55
alteregoWho wants to submit the bug on ?17:56
DocScrutinizeras jonwil mentioned some lines above17:56
alteregoI think it'd be nice to have all of the GPS related messages to be honest ;)17:56
dm8tbrJFTR:  1643  1642 1000     S      720   0%   1% /usr/bin/nl5350-gpsd -u /dev/ttyS117:57
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dm8tbrdoesn't look like heavy CPU load17:57
jonwilwell what we need is documentation for all the messages that can be sent to resource 0x54 (which is the GPS resource)17:57
javispedrodm8tbr: wait for lock17:57
jonwilthe worst Nokia can do if we ask for it is to say no17:57
dm8tbrmkay, need to move to the window then17:57
alteregoI still reckon there's probably a way to get phonet to allow you to talk directly to the serial though17:57
javispedrodm8tbr: either way, it was ~10% on N8x0, so on OMAP3 it might be indetectable :(17:58
DocScrutinizerjonwil: nope - the worst is what they always do: say nothing, and close as wontfix after 9 months17:58
jonwileither way, it cant hurt to ask17:58
alteregoDocScrutinizer: we have it open on MeeGo, we have it open opn Maemo, request on bugs.meego.com17:58
alteregoAnd, everyone wants the GPS stuff to be open on meego N90017:59
alteregoThe reason we're using liblocation et al is time and effort.17:59
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alteregoIf the specs were opened the community could work on it.17:59
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jonwilyeah if the isi/phonet interface for GPS was open, Nokia could retain any special "Secret sauce" they use to differentiate GPS apps (stuff in liblas etc) but community would get open GPS drivers on N90018:02
jonwilopen GPS daemon that is18:02
DocScrutinizeralterego: I tend to agree on that (bridge mode to GPS) - but probably Nokia isn't willing to disclose this18:02
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: yeah, no telling what we could do if we could reverse engineer something like that.18:02
jonwildidnt we say N900 contains limited GPS chip that offloads all the work to baseband cellmo?18:03
DocScrutinizeralterego: bridge mode inevitably would stop GPS for GSM stealth query18:03
alteregojonwil: yes, but we also said there's a software driver implementation :)18:03
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javispedro(also closed and which might be hardware to ""clone"")18:03
RST38hheya javispedro18:03
javispedrouh, double quotes dammit.18:03
javispedromorning RST38h18:03
jonwilI still think most likely outcome is that Nokia can be persuaded to document isi GPS packets as supported by N900 cellmo18:04
jonwilgetting any lower level access than that is unlikely18:04
DocScrutinizerextremely unlikely18:04
jonwiland if we have the isi packets, we dont care about liblocation, liblas, location-proxy, location-daemon etc18:05
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* DocScrutinizer sighs and mumbles "if only they'd also disclose how to get service monitor access via ISI"18:06
DocScrutinizerhell, we could build a BETTER liblocation or an equivalent service then18:07
DocScrutinizerdunno what?18:08
alteregoDunno if we can be arsed ;)18:08
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javispedroand agps, and tower triangulation, .. :P18:09
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DocScrutinizerwe could intergrate skyhook and GSM trangulation, even as plugins18:09
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jonwildoes the cellmo expose service monitor stuff via isi?18:11
DocScrutinizerprobably yes18:11
jonwilso is someone going to file a meego bug asking for n900 cellmo GPS packet format?18:12
alteregojonwil: like I said, I'll ask on Thursday.18:12
jonwiloh ok18:12
DocScrutinizeriirc tekojo said the Nokia devels pondered to implement it into probably libisi, when I asked for it18:12
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alteregoWhat's skyhook?18:13
jonwilimplementing stuff in libisi doesnt help us as libisi is closed18:13
jonwiland headers are closed18:13
DocScrutinizerthe AP based think that whyPhone used18:13
* javispedro watches the n900 triple reboot out of a battery empty condition because I forgot to umount nfs18:15
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: whatever it was a lib they pondered to augment to enable service monitor, it was a APE lib, so I guess the cellmo does support it18:18
DocScrutinizerbut of course it's not documented I bet18:19
jonwilwell the things they document appear to be18:20
jonwilSMS resource18:20
DocScrutinizerthat's why my hopes are low for seeing SM even in ofono18:20
jonwilSupplementary Services resource18:20
jonwilIndication subscription messages18:20
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jonwilCircuit Switched Data18:20
jonwilGeneral Packet Radio System server18:20
jonwilGSM Stack server18:20
jonwilUniversal Integrated Circuit Card18:20
jonwilModem AT server18:20
jonwilModem LCS server18:20
jonwilModem Test server18:20
jonwilModem Non Volatile Data server18:21
jonwilRF control and tuning server18:21
jonwilModem MCE server18:21
jonwilModem Monitor server18:21
DocScrutinizermodem test server??18:21
jonwilModem Info Server18:21
jonwilModem NET server18:21
jonwilModem CALL server18:21
jonwil3GPP GAN Protocol Stack server18:21
jonwilPipe messages18:21
jonwilCommon RF test server18:21
jonwilWCDMA RF test server18:21
jonwilGSM test server18:21
RST38hplease stop18:21
DocScrutinizerjonwil: you're rapidly approaching a +q18:21
jonwilok sorry18:21
* alterego chuckles18:21
alteregoOne line would have been enough18:22
alteregoOr pastie :P18:22
* alterego continues fiddling with his obs vm18:22
DocScrutinizerI'd like - really appreciate - to see this list on wiki18:22
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DocScrutinizerCommon RF test server - WTF!18:23
DocScrutinizerModem monitor18:23
jonwilThats just the list of resources as listed in the wireless modem API docs18:24
jonwilCan someone with a N900 run this command "dbus-send --system --print-reply /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.get_registration_status" and paste the results?18:24
DocScrutinizersorry, restored a 2yo backup to my router, now all the N900 fixed IPs are gone :-P18:25
jonwilhmmm, wl1251-cal is more complex than I thought18:26
alteregojonwil: I would but I don't want you knowing my cellid :P18:27
jonwilwell replace the cellid with all 0s then18:27
jonwilor something18:27
alteregotbh, I don't mind, hang on18:27
alteregoWait, mine is saying "The Feds are on to you, run!"18:28
DocScrutinizerooh, cellid already all 0 ?18:28
DocScrutinizeri.e. an imsi catcher?18:28
DocScrutinizerencryption A0?18:29
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jonwilI think I shall document everything wl1251-cal reads from (e.g. dbus, cal) and let someone like lxp1 take that info and produce something for MeeGo (and for Maemo-cssu if its appropriate for that)18:30
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lxpjonwil: yeah, i already looked up how request_firmware is working. i don't understand the entire system right now, but i think we could remove this nasty netlink interface and replace it with a new wl1251-cal and some udev rules18:51
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jonwilok, from the looks of what wl1251-cal is doing, firstly it calls libwl1251_init in libwl1251 passing in the string "wlan0"18:55
jonwilit stores the result of this for later use18:55
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jonwilthen it uses dbus to get the cell network country code (if possible)18:55
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jonwilif thats not possible, it grabs wlan-tx-cost3_0 from the CAL area, does something to it and sends it to libwl1251_nvs_push18:56
jonwilif it cant get the CAL area, it uses some kind of default18:56
jonwilnot sure what nvs is18:56
lxpnvs is the calibration data18:57
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lxpyou should also find a calibration data file with default values in /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin18:58
lxpi think wl1251-cal somewhere has to read a similar file from cal and push it to the driver18:59
jonwilwell wl1251-cal is using default data stored inside wl1251-cal binary18:59
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lxphmm, that's odd i always thought this calibration data also contains some rf related stuff, which is only valid for exactly that chip and is generated during production19:01
lxpbut as you describe it it looks like it's only purpose is to limit the available channels to the specific regulation domain19:04
jonwilmaybe what happens is that the default data is special and is only used once before the cal is populated by the factory test thing19:05
lxpyeah that could be, then it would may be the same as in the /lib/firmware/wl1251-nvs.bin file19:06
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korhojoahey guys19:07
korhojoais there a wiki page on the sqlite db format of the conversations stuff?19:07
korhojoai'd like to insert my own 'messages' which have never been sent or whatever19:07
korhojoalike if there's something like a auth for a service that requires you to send a text to a number so it will reply with your id, even though it never changes, so that you can show it to the staff of some place19:08
korhojoathis way i'd save the price of a text message each time i use their service19:09
jonwilok, yeah the default data inside wl1251-cal is the same as wl1251-nvs.bin19:09
lxphere is something ob nvs data:
lxpit is for the wl1271 chip, but i think it should be the same for the wl1251 chip19:10
lxpthis thread basically says the nvs data contains tx calibration data, so that the correct output power is used19:11
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korhojoathis could also be a great prank device. insert message about thing y from person x and show to person z, "legit sms"19:11
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jonwilso yeah I am writing some notes on what wl1251-cal does, hopefyhllt someone (like lxp) can play with it and get something working19:31
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jonwilbut yeah I think the reason wl1251-cal is closed is so that wifi chip is only sent correct settings for country its operating in19:31
jonwiland doesnt transmit on channels not allowed19:31
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jonwilsuch closed daemons are common with some desktop wifi chips19:32
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jacekowskijonwil: all it's doing it's reading wlan-mac and wlan-tx-cost3_019:42
jonwilits doing more than that as my wiki entry will soon show :)19:42
jacekowskiand it is sending it to interface19:43
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jacekowskinothing else in there19:47
jacekowskijust straight read from cal and push to interface19:47
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jonwiltrust me, its doing more with the country code stuff related to whether its US or EU (at least the version I am looking at from the meego non-oss repo)19:48
alterego350 packages left to download ..19:49
jacekowskitrust me19:49
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jacekowskiit goes to same function in the end19:50
jacekowski.text:0000933C                 BL      libwl1251_nvs_push19:51
jacekowskithat's only call to that function19:51
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jacekowskiand it's called straight after data is read from CAL19:52
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jacekowski.text:000092F8                 BL      read_cal19:52
jacekowski.text:000092FC                 CMP     R0, #019:52
jacekowski.text:00009300                 BLT     loc_963419:52
jonwilnot in the binary I havde19:52
jonwil00009354                 BL      libwl1251_nvs_push19:52
jonwildifferent address19:53
jacekowskii have one from pr1.319:53
jacekowskiwith global firmware19:53
jonwilwell this from the meego non-oss repos19:56
jonwilwhich is where the interest is19:56
pupnikwoo srrmblr19:56
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alteregoOooo, top gear tonight20:00
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jacekowskialterego: what time?20:06
* GAN900 has been working through the back catalog on Netflix.20:06
alterego8pm UTC20:06
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jonwilbrain dump for what wl1251-cal on meego non-oss is actually doing20:19
jonwilor appears to be doing20:19
jonwilSeems to be setting grabbing the nvs data and changing it based on whether its FCC or not FCC20:21
jonwilthen it sets mac address20:21
jonwilthen setting either EU or US as appropriate20:22
jonwilshould be enough info to let someone come up with an open (and preferably in-kernel if possible20:22
psycho_oreosyeah that's mac80211 framework20:22
jonwilsolution for wl1251-cal20:22
jonwilon meego at least20:22
jonwilif anyone has questions, just let me know20:22
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Failure-PeltonenI may have asked this before20:30
Failure-Peltonenbut is it possible to disable smileys on N900? Getting annyoed with tose.20:31
Failure-Peltoneni mean smileys on converstations.20:31
SpeedEvilI forget where20:33
SpeedEvilIt's in settings, I think20:33
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Failure-PeltonenSpeedEvil: Well i self havnt figured it out where..20:35
SpeedEvilSorry - I've had a look, and can't find it anywhere20:36
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jaskathat doesnt show the whole posting for some reason20:40
Failure-PeltonenDocScrutinizer: Thanks of the link, but i cant see any "read more" thing and it ends with ...20:40
jaskamileys by default, yet [...]20:40
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DocScrutinizerme neither :-/20:40
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SpeedEvilAll you have to do is edit /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/smilies/user/default.def file and remove all lines under [Smilies] section. Same might be applied to /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/smilies/service/skype.def  (or basically any *.def file within those directories). The next step  is reboot and you have graphical-simley-less device in your hand. Hell  yeah!20:41
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Failure-PeltonenSpeedEvil: Okay. Better would be just a Disable smileys [X] thing in settings but ill do this. i hate em so much =D20:50
Failure-PeltonenSpeedEvil: have to ask, if i do edit that, and then i type ":)" will it be in text or empty?20:51
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lardmanevening all21:00
lardmanany SQL gurus about|21:00
lardman~lart laptop kb21:00
* infobot smacks laptop kb up side the head with a clue-by-421:00
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alteregolardman: What are you wanting to di?21:00
alteregodo ..21:00
lardmanslightly random, have done some website scraping to get houseprice data and am now writing a app to combine the data for analysis21:01
lardmanso I want to be able to retrieve records for variable numbers of postcodes21:02
lardmanand am just wondering how to combine the select query21:02
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lardmanso whether to do separate select for each postcode, and somehow combine (union?) or to do an almighty set of and's in the select statement21:03
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lardmanI can do it all in MATLAB, but would prefer to have something more portable, and Octave is rather too slow21:04
lardmannot helped by not having sufficient memory for all the data21:04
alteregoWell, I'd imagine a signle sql query will be quicker21:04
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lardmancan I perform calcs in a query? e.g. I have lat lon data for each property, and might want all properties within 100m of my current lat lon?21:06
lardmanbut then I need to calculate the sqrt of the square of the difference between my lat lon and each record's lat lon value21:07
SpeedEvilNot really, if you only care about approx.21:07
lardmanthis is the trouble with porting from a quad core machine w/ 8Gb RAM to an N900 ;)21:07
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lardmanyeah, but can that be part of the query?21:08
SpeedEvilNo clue21:08
lardmanI'll have to do some looking21:08
SpeedEvilI learned all I know of SQL from a dog named Sue.21:08
trxpart of sql query?21:08
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trxi believe so, it can be21:08
lardmanI learned it for a stock control app I wrote many years ago, but has been a while and didn't need to combine queries, etc then21:09
trxdont know about exact function names rho..21:09
lardmantrx: ok, I'll do some digging then21:09
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SpeedEvillardman: - all barcodes of stuff sold by tesco - ripped from
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SpeedEvilI'm currently trying to do something that will do a sort-by-calorie.21:12
SpeedEvilFor amusement.21:13
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lardmanSpeedEvil: cool21:14
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lardmanpresumably one can query their db directly?21:15
lardmanOtherwise I could of course grab your page and keep it as a local db21:16
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lardmanas that's what I've spent all weekend doing with house prices21:16
lardmanSpeedEvil: you know you can get the barcode data via DBus broadcast from mBarcode?21:17
SpeedEvillardman: Do you have a link?21:17
SpeedEvillardman: yes - you sign up for a developer key - and it's a really simple REST query for the barcode to return the product21:18
lardmannot really, I need to create some docs21:18
lardmanhang on, let me look at the code to tell you the dbus message21:18
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SpeedEvil is the result you get back from a search21:19
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lardmanQDBusMessage message = QDBusMessage::createSignal(QString("org.maemo.mbarcode"), QString("org.maemo.mbarcode"), QString("BarcodeDecoded"));  is the message sent by mBarcode, with a type and data arguments, both strings21:20
lardmangive me a shout if you have any troubles, etc and I'll do fixing21:21
lardmanwill have a look at the Tesco stuff and write a quick Python plugin to test the api21:21
lardmanso thanks for the pointers :)21:21
lardmanamazing how I've managed to spend all weekend not achieving much, really frustrating starting to write an app :(21:22
alteregolardman: I want that :)21:22
SpeedEvillardman: Do you need to go from postcode-> lat/lon?21:22
lardmanSpeedEvil: yeah, I've got a db from online21:22
* lardman looks for url21:23
RST38hwhat app?21:23
alteregoI want tesco bar code support as I pretty much exclusively purchase from Tesco :)21:23
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lardmanalterego: could I persuade you to write a Python plugin for mBarcode then...? ;)21:23
xnt14____If any of you guys see MohammadAG, can you tell him to email me?21:24
alteregolardman: maybe :&21:24
lardmanalterego: :D21:24
alteregoThat was meant to be :)21:24
RST38hxnt14: how many underscores should he add to your nick when writing to you? =)21:24
lardmanok :) well I guess if you're familiar with the apis it should be a 10min job really21:24
lardmanRST38h: *snigger*21:25
xnt14____RST38h: sorry, I'm in NYC atm, Tethering with N900. freenode doesn't let T-Mobile 3G users on, so I'm using webchat and was too lazy to auth to services21:25
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SpeedEvilalterego: - hit the API docs21:26
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xnt14[laptop]I have to go now... RST38h, I would appreciate it if you told him if/when you see him. :)21:27
alteregoSpeedEvil: thanks21:27
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* b-man pokes xnt14[laptop] with a long stick21:27
b-mandamn! xD21:27
* lardman had better fix the python plugin for the new mBarcode api21:28
TsuyoIs there a way to record the N900 screen?21:29
lardmanor -s?21:29
lardmanor something iirc21:29
SpeedEvilInsert video out plug, and connect to VCR21:29
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Tsuyowell shift-ctrl-p just creates a screenshot. I want to make a small Video directly, without the video cable21:31
alteregoTsuyo: no, unfortunately not.21:31
SpeedEvilthe cpu-applet thing does that I think?21:31
SpeedEvilNever used it21:31
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lardmanTsuyo: though afaicr you should be able to create a gst pipeline which grabs the fb output21:31
TsuyoThanks :p21:32
DocScrutinizerlardman: SQL query? sure you can use all sorts of equations and functions there21:32
lardmanDocScrutinizer: any pointers?21:33
lardmanusing QtSql21:33
DocScrutinizernot really, too trivial21:33
lardmanhumour me! :p21:33
lardmanso you can embed an equation to be evaluated in the query?21:34
chxreading that thread x11vnc works beter than load-applet21:34
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lardmane.g. (current_lat - record_lat)^2 + (current_lon - record_lon)^2 <= radius_squared ?21:35
DocScrutinizerselect sqrt(lat**2 + lon**2) as dist from bla where (dist < 200)21:35
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lardmanah, cool, so I can define temp vars in the query21:36
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RST38hnot temp vars, but names, yes21:36
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RST38hand do not expect this query to be fast21:36
lardmanso can I insert a fixed value into the above?21:36
lardmanprobably no slower than performing the same calc in the C++ code after the values are returned though I guess21:38
RST38hthat is not the reason21:39
RST38hhaving a weird selection condition like that will most likely prevent the server from using indices21:39
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lardmanunfortunately all of the queries will be formed like that21:40
lardmanan alternative is to use rough boxing in the select query, then perform the accurate stuff once the records are returned21:41
RST38hYes, having an inner select like that will most likely help things21:41
lardmanok, but perform a select on the return of the first select?21:42
lardmanor do that in C++ on the returned data?21:42
lardmanthe former I guess21:42
lardmanmakes using the data easier21:42
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lardmangoing back to DocScrutinizer's suggestion, while that will give me the distance from (0,0), how do I find the distance from (my_lat, my_lon)?21:45
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piggzwhat is the deal with this flash 10.1 for maemo someone just tweeted?
lardmanI'd hazard a guess that it's rubbish21:50
wmaroneor it's that TI released thing repackaged21:51
lardmanI'd expect to hear about that somewhere other than a torrent though...?21:51
piggzlardman: or twitter ;)21:52
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piggzthis is the guys site
piggzseems he's pro-maemo21:52
lardmanhmm, dunno then, give it a go21:53
lardmanbut be careful21:53
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piggzim not installing it just yet...i just got my n900 back and want to see how long it stays up to make sure its fixed21:53
piggzi am seeding no tho21:54
lardmanwhat's in the torrent?21:54
piggzmy uptime is now ~3 days...almost a best!21:54
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* piggz looking21:54
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piggza and a readme21:55
lardmanhmm, well you never know21:56
piggzthe readme doesnt contain much
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lardmandoesn't need much really21:56
lardmanshould be fairly straight forward to wrap the released version, if so, good on who ever did it21:57
piggzthe string ti occurs quite a lot in the 'strings' output21:57
piggzso i guess its that version21:57
alteregoIt's not optimized though is it ..21:57
alteregoAnd doesn't have msgx optimization.21:58
alterego.. sgx ..21:58
lardmandunno, what was the original target? OMAP4 unaccelerated?21:58
alteregoNo idea :)21:59
jacekowskipiggz: it's useless21:59
jacekowskipiggz: no acceleration22:00
piggzah well, nevermind22:00
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chxyes OMAP422:00
chxwhether there is more i do not know but the original news was about omap4 ti flash22:00
lardmaninteresting that it was unaccelerated though22:01
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alteregotop gear :)22:03
* alterego idles22:03
* lardman is recording, stuck with Candleford .... :(22:03
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eichiis there an easy way, to make some kind of "beep" on n900 with terminal in maemo5? i want something like command && beep22:04
* SpeedEvil imagines that being Clarksons theme.22:04
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SpeedEvilCandle + ford22:04
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lardmanI would prefer to see burning cars than this twaddle, but no, bbc ch1 Candleford22:05
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* alterego wants that transit22:06
lardmanlast time I drive a van it was quite nice and relaxing, high up and not very fast, all good22:07
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lardmanbut always better to have something quick :)22:07
lardmanhey lcuk22:07
lcukhi lardman \o22:08
lardmanlcuk: how's things?22:08
lcukbloody tired!22:08
lcukgot back from bowling just before and its wiped me out22:09
lardmanall that mental calculation working out the exact scores to achieve?22:09
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lardmanor the beer (/me finds that more tiring)22:09
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eichihello. is there some easy notofication with terminal like a "beep" or a "led" light or vibration i can use for something like "command && beep|vibrate|led_flash" ???22:11
lardmanthough one must keep a certain pintage to maintain good aim, hard to achieve that mind you22:11
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lcuklardman, I was practicing my aim last night, playing carrom22:14
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lardmannever played that, table-football like in terms of flicking things?22:15
lardmanin the 2p-style of table football that is22:15
* lardman also remembers table rugby and taking conversions kicking 2p pieces, ouch!22:16
DocScrutinizereichi: xkbbeep does NOT work, I wonder what for they ship that useless cruft. playsound some.wav though will do22:16
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lcuklol lardman22:16
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DocScrutinizereichi: make that ``play-sound some.wav''22:19
DocScrutinizer(and xkbbell :-P)22:20
DocScrutinizer(still useless)22:20
piggzdamn, im missing top gear...just aswell my blu0-ray has iplayer!22:20
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korhojoawhat? there's an episode of top gear going on right now?22:27
^24sevenyup :P22:27
* DocScrutinizer wonders what kind of environment would be needed to put xkbbell to some purpose22:29
DocScrutinizer...on N900. bootmenu? framebuffer console? A better xterm?22:29
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lardmanis to do with X isn't it?22:31
korhojoaDocScrutinizer: a framebuffer console with a rotating opengl cube in the background22:31
korhojoajust because you can22:31
alteregoDocScrutinizer: hook it up with maemo notifications and it'd be nice for screen monitoring and irssi22:32
alteregognu scree that is22:32
DocScrutinizeralterego: eh? I can't see how that dysfunct cruft is going to be useful22:32
chxeichi: vibration22:33
alteregoDocScrutinizer: there have been many times I'd like screen to notify me that something has happened, through vibra, flashing led pattern and notification sound.22:33
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DocScrutinizerlardman: well it has a leading x. NFC if that means it's meant to put bell to work despite of x, or whether it needs x to work at all22:34
lardmanoh, I thought it was the server that was supposed to produce the noise22:34
DocScrutinizeralterego: well, how's that related to a dysfunctional executable shipping with stock fremantle?22:35
DocScrutinizerI just wonder if it's another few bytes to waste our precious rootfs space, or there'S actually some potential usecase for this22:37
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alteregoOh, I thought you were talking about using bell :)22:37
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DocScrutinizermy uneducated guess this very moment is: ~30% of rootfs are useless cruft and litter22:38
alteregoI'd imagine it's part of the core x package.22:38
alterego30% seems a bit steep, but I'm sure there is a fair amount.22:38
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DocScrutinizer154.9M  /usr/lib (du -hx) :-P22:42
DocScrutinizerit's really depressing how Nokia distro maintainers completely missed the point of /usr22:43
DocScrutinizeryou'd think they never had any education about how a *nix OS is built22:44
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RST38hDoc: education would not help them on their way to corporate goals!22:47
* RST38h tries to parse what he has just written, fails.22:47
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luke-jrRST38h: I understood it, the third time reading.22:57
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DocScrutinizer51grammatically it looks lke a pretty normal sentence to me23:01
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DocScrutinizer51I'm no native speaker though23:02
chxDocScrutinizer51: is this a hint at Area 51, the RX-51 device or a clever trick of both?23:03
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DocScrutinizer51it's the bit width of my wetware address bus23:04
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Toxaris_on_mobilhow can i restart modest?23:10
Proteouswe don't want any, go away23:10
Proteousoh wait23:10
Proteousyou aren't selling anything?23:10
Toxaris_on_mobilmodest sometimes crash and i recive no emails23:11
Toxaris_on_mobilif i restart my n900 it works again23:11
Toxaris_on_mobilso I wounder if i can simply restart modest to get ir work again23:12
Sc0rpiusfirst time I heard that23:12
Sc0rpiusdid you try kill -SIGHUP modest23:12
Sc0rpiusmodest PID of course23:12
Toxaris_on_mobilyes its quite strange, happens once a week or some thing like that23:12
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Toxaris_on_mobilyes I typed "kill -9 <modest PID>23:13
Sc0rpiussojething like23:13
Sc0rpiussomething like23:13
Sc0rpiusps aux | grep modest | grep -v grep | awk ' { print $1 } ' | xargs kill -SIGHUP23:13
Sc0rpius(yeah I'm lazy)23:13
Sc0rpiusbut anyway, my modest has never ever crashed23:13
Toxaris_on_mobildo you use exchange?23:14
Sc0rpiusno, not me23:14
Sc0rpiusjust two IMAP accounts configured on it23:14
Toxaris_on_mobilahh, ok23:14
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ProteousI have my n900 connected to an exchange account23:14
Proteoushaven't had any email client crashes23:15
Toxaris_on_mobilI think its something with mail for exchange that messup modest23:15
Proteousbut I don't get a ton of mail on that account23:15
Toxaris_on_mobilwell, I did the ps aux | grep modest | grep -v grep | awk ' { print $1 } ' | xargs kill -SIGHUP" and I get a yellow line saying something like Internal error email closed23:18
Toxaris_on_mobilbut it didt work23:18
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Toxaris_on_mobilhmm, in exchange status it says "Idle" and not connected as usual23:20
Toxaris_on_mobilmaybe its the syncengine that needs to be restarted23:21
GAN900Toxaris_on_mobil, killall modest works fine.23:21
GAN900Oh, yeah, Exchange.23:21
GAN900Have fun with that. ;)23:21
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Toxaris_on_mobilmaybe I have to leave it by reboot the phone :(23:24
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