IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-11-07

* alterego looks at his wall		00:00
alterego	I've got one :P	00:00
GAN900	Need to set the clocks on a bunch of Win98 machines	00:04
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ieatlint	go to terminal, type "watch -n1 date" and zoom in :P	00:06
GAN900	Perfect	00:06
GAN900	thanks, ieatlint.	00:06
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ieatlint	np	00:08
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ieatlint	there any git gurus in here?	00:13
lcuk	ieatlint, dunno, ask the question, someone who isnt a guru might have encountered it before	00:13
ieatlint	heh, indeed, i'm guilty of a classic faux paux	00:14
ieatlint	anyone know how to setup a git checkout that pushes changes to two git repos (the repos synced -- i want to host the code on two different servers)	00:14
ieatlint	and to add to my bullshit, i think i just answered my own question, heh	00:15
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lcuk	ieatlint, :) taking a few moments to present a question often has that effect	00:23
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ieatlint	yeah, "git remote" works nicely	00:24
ieatlint	:)	00:24
* timeless_xchat sighs		00:24
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lcuk	hey timeless	00:26
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sivang	timeless_mbp: why sigh?	00:26
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timeless_mbp	i just tried using the Camera and Media Player	00:27
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timeless_mbp	they have "interesting" "features"	00:27
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alterego	Yes, they don't work together :P	00:27
timeless_mbp	they both occasionally show you time in the form of "00:00"	00:27
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timeless_mbp	unfortunately, they don't use a monospace font for this	00:28
timeless_mbp	nor do they ask for "tabular numbers"	00:28
timeless_mbp	they do otoh have text or glyphs whose layout is affected by their length	00:28
sivang	so it is very hard to read?	00:28
timeless_mbp	no, it jitters!	00:28
timeless_mbp	always a good idea...	00:28
sivang	ah, I got used to that already...	00:28
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* timeless_mbp slaps sivang		00:28
sivang	stuff has been more jittering in 1.3	00:28
sivang	hehe	00:29
timeless_mbp	bad fake user	00:29
sivang	and hebrew fonts got a bit more ugly...	00:29
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timeless_mbp	the other thing is spiffier	00:29
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timeless_mbp	in the media player while playing a video, if you tap the screen, you get buttons at the bottom	00:29
timeless_mbp	… if you press and hold on e.g. the left button (sharing)	00:29
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timeless_mbp	the bottom of the glyph gets chopped off	00:29
timeless_mbp	because the icon wasn't ugly enough as is	00:29
timeless_mbp	s/is/designed/	00:30
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: because the icon wasn't ugly enough as designed	00:30
* timeless_mbp waits for people to run out and try these "features"		00:30
lcuk	timeless_mbp, on which os	00:30
timeless_mbp	Maemo PR1.3?	00:30
timeless_mbp	are there other os's that matter in #maemo? :)	00:31
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sivang	timeless_mbp: I never upgraded to 1.3	00:31
sivang	timeless_mbp: been reading horror stories	00:31
timeless_mbp	gah!	00:31
sivang	yes :/	00:31
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alterego	I've not had a prob with 1.3 :/	00:31
timeless_mbp	1.3 gives you working support for WPS	00:31
sivang	WPS?	00:31
timeless_mbp	WiFi Protected Setup	00:31
lcuk	hm	00:31
nox-	oh nice	00:32
timeless_mbp	(namely it gives you two copies of each WPS network, one for Classic Password, and one for WPS)	00:32
sivang	timeless_mbp: you mean the auto setting itself stuff?	00:32
alterego	Well, that's a slight annoyance removed :D	00:32
timeless_mbp	since no one actually uses WPS, you can now actually connect w/o manual pain	00:32
timeless_mbp	sivang: yeah, but the reality is that very people know how to use WPS	00:32
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timeless_mbp	WPS is basically standard in all new wifi routers	00:32
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timeless_mbp	but WPS education is non standard in normal humans	00:33
timeless_mbp	so you get people who say "my password is XXXX"	00:33
timeless_mbp	and you look at your pr1.2 device and cry	00:33
ShadowJK	I remember using WPS in 1.2 and making it talk to a wifi router fine :/	00:33
sivang	timeless_mbp: I never configured my routers to support it so I don't think I'd care..	00:33
alterego	Yeah, I had to previously manually setup WPS in routers on some free hotspots	00:33
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: using a password or using the WPS part?	00:33
ShadowJK	timeless, the wps part	00:33
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: this is about the non wps version	00:33
ShadowJK	ah	00:34
nidO	ShadowJK: that always worked fine	00:34
sivang	timeless_mbp: where do you get WPS eduction? ;)	00:34
alterego	Yeah	00:34
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nidO	the problem was trying to use a pw instead on a wps enabled router, where you'd have to at a public hotspot for example	00:34
timeless_mbp	sivang =~ s/eduction/education/	00:34
timeless_mbp	anyway, it was possible to work around it, you manually configured the network	00:34
alterego	But manually adding connections in settings was an annoying pain. :)	00:34
sivang	timeless_mbp: yes, sorry, I need a new laptop	00:34
timeless_mbp	but that's incredibly painful	00:34
timeless_mbp	anyway, pr1.3 solves this	00:34
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sivang	right, so it is easier with 1.3?	00:35
sivang	nice!	00:35
timeless_mbp	you get 2 available networks	00:35
sivang	I should try it then	00:35
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timeless_mbp	one labeled WPS and one not	00:35
ShadowJK	I need to ask work for time off so I have enough time to upgrade to 1.3 in case it goes wrong again :)	00:35
timeless_mbp	if you want to use WPS you pick the labeled one, if not, you pick the other	00:35
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: lol	00:35
sivang	ShadowJK: :)	00:35
timeless_mbp	anyway, would someone please try my media player bug?	00:35
timeless_mbp	i'd love to know that it works in pr1.2	00:35
sivang	ShadowJK: same here, I can't afford to screw it now but the topic here said that 1.3 is slowly coming, be patient	00:36
ShadowJK	timeless, I don'	00:36
timeless_mbp	i'm too lazy to stretch out my arm to the pr1.2 n900 w/ me :)	00:36
sivang	timeless_mbp: I have 1.2	00:36
ShadowJK	timeless, I don't remember seeing share icons in 1.2	00:36
sivang	timeless_mbp: let's try	00:36
sivang	timeless_mbp: can you again explain how to reproduce?	00:36
timeless_mbp	play a video	00:36
timeless_mbp	tap the screen	00:36
* sivang does		00:36
timeless_mbp	you should see a scrub bar	00:36
timeless_mbp	on the left edge of the bar	00:36
timeless_mbp	are two buttons, share and trash	00:37
timeless_mbp	look at the "pretty" picture	00:37
timeless_mbp	now press the top part of the "pretty" picture, and look at the bottom part	00:37
timeless_mbp	it should be chopped off while pressed	00:37
sivang	pretty picture?	00:37
timeless_mbp	it's a glyph	00:37
sivang	the share icon got chopped though	00:37
timeless_mbp	done by a graphically challenged artist	00:37
sivang	hehe	00:37
timeless_mbp	further challenged by someone's clever use of cropping	00:37
timeless_mbp	repeat for trash	00:38
sivang	it is something I would expect 70's reproductionof war of the worlds	00:38
ShadowJK	a marginal part of the jingle bells on the sticks get castrated slightly in 1.2	00:38
timeless_mbp	for bonus points, try to get screen captures	00:38
sivang	but it will trash my video no?	00:38
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timeless_mbp	sivang: there's a confirm dialog	00:38
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timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: right	00:38
sivang	timeless_mbp: can I trust it? ;-)	00:38
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ShadowJK	screen captures wont work at all with media player, I'm sure. You'll get green with UI, or black with UI :)	00:38
timeless_mbp	sivang: i've done it a couple of times	00:38
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: oddly, it worked fine for me	00:38
sivang	timeless_mbp: ok, /me tries	00:38
timeless_mbp	well, for some definition of fine	00:39
timeless_mbp	it shows the bug	00:39
timeless_mbp	but note: it's a royal pain to take screen shots of this	00:39
ShadowJK	timeless, fancy. Either they killed hw accel, or they went to great lengths to make screenshots work	00:39
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: i don't need a picture of the movie	00:39
timeless_mbp	just the ui	00:39
ShadowJK	ah right.	00:39
sivang	timeless_mbp: trsh can get's cut of its bottom part, yes	00:39
sivang	darn	00:39
timeless_mbp	anyway, i need to try to figure out how to do a demo showing these things	00:39
sivang	looking more like athens	00:40
timeless_mbp	heh	00:40
timeless_mbp	yes	00:40
sivang	timeless_mbp: we can do with my N900	00:40
sivang	timeless_mbp: if we get a projector and I bring my cables	00:40
sivang	timeless_mbp: for the talk?	00:40
timeless_mbp	yeah	00:40
timeless_mbp	please make sure they know we want to project	00:40
timeless_mbp	oddly, i have 2 cables w/ me atm	00:40
timeless_mbp	otoh, i have 2 devices too, so ...	00:40
sivang	I am going to write an email wit our reqs tomorrow	00:40
sivang	timeless_mbp: mine is going to be with me as my phone so not a problem	00:41
sivang	timeless_mbp: btw, how are we gonna pull the ui handouts stuff?	00:41
sivang	timeless_mbp: also, take note that talk time has been shortened for 40minutes for the longest ones	00:41
timeless_mbp	'guess we have to finish that by wednesday :)	00:41
timeless_mbp	i'll figure it out then	00:41
timeless_mbp	i'm still @Lyon right now	00:41
sivang	timeless_mbp: right, I figured	00:42
sivang	timeless_mbp: ui handouts were your suggestion, hence why I'm asking- for my parts, I will send you soemthingto see hopefully the day after tomorrwo (always wanted to say that!)	00:42
sivang	timeless_mbp: been cranking on this document store for the last couple of days..	00:43
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unixSnob	answer to my question => dpkg -l \| awk '{print $2}' \| sed -e '1,5d'\ \| while read p; do dpkg -s $p; done \| grep -E '(Package:\|Installed-Size)'\ \| sed -e '/Package/N;{;s/Package: $.$Installed-Size: $.$/\2 \1/;};' \| grep '[0-9]\{4,\}' \| sort -n	00:52
timeless_mbp	ENOTENGLISH	00:52
timeless_mbp	EAWK	00:52
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Noobmonk3y	ooo i left irc on :P	00:54
unixSnob	xulrunner is my biggest app. Is that part of the stock browser?	00:54
Noobmonk3y_	slag	00:54
* Noobmonk3y punches Noobmonk3y_		00:55
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timeless_mbp	unixSnob: no	00:55
timeless_mbp	that's fennec	00:55
timeless_mbp	apt-cache rdepends or something?	00:55
unixSnob	hmm.. i installed fennec at one point to play around with alternate browsers.. then removed it	00:56
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unixSnob	xulrunner should have been removed too	00:56
timeless_mbp	apt-cache show xulrunner\|more	00:57
timeless_mbp	MAintainer: Mobile Feedback <mobile-feedback@mozilla.com>	00:57
timeless_mbp	s/MA/Ma/	00:57
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: Maintainer: Mobile Feedback <mobile-feedback@mozilla.com>	00:57
timeless_mbp	does that look like nokia?	00:57
timeless_mbp	section: user/hidden	00:57
timeless_mbp	funny.	00:57
timeless_mbp	it even has a Description: field clearly implicating Firefox	00:58
timeless_mbp	as well as a Maemo-Display-Name	00:58
timeless_mbp	anyway, since it's in user/*, it's probably visible in add remove	00:58
ShadowJK	firefox, fennec, microb... people confuse the 3 together	00:58
timeless_mbp	or whatever the poorly localized app manager was called by some idiotic finn	00:58
ShadowJK	;)	00:58
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: because 'f' and 'm' are so close on the keyboard?	00:59
ShadowJK	no because that's what marketing do	00:59
ShadowJK	create confusion	00:59
* timeless_mbp rotfl		00:59
timeless_mbp	> "Older Americans are less healthy than their English counterparts, but they live as long or even longer than their English peers,	00:59
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unixSnob	wtf.. If I run => apt-get remove xulrunner <= it tells me "Package xulrunner is not installed, so not removed"	01:01
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timeless_mbp	it probably has conf files	01:01
unixSnob	but when I run => dpkg -l xulrunner <= i get "rc xulrunner 1.9.2a1pre-20090312092403 XUL runtime package"	01:01
timeless_mbp	yep	01:01
timeless_mbp	it's dead, but has conf files	01:01
timeless_mbp	go read the top of dpkg -l	01:01
timeless_mbp	power users are funny	01:02
unixSnob	top line is "Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed"	01:02
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unixSnob	that's not readable	01:03
timeless_mbp	welcome to Linux	01:03
unixSnob	installed... half-installed	01:03
timeless_mbp	where we do unreadability as an artform	01:03
timeless_mbp	Like Unix, but worse	01:04
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unixSnob	i removed the config file, but dpkg -l still shows it's not gone	01:05
unixSnob	rm /etc/gre.d/1.9.2a1pre.system.conf	01:06
unixSnob	what else do I need to remove?	01:06
timeless_mbp	try man dpkg —purge ?	01:07
unixSnob	that's better	01:08
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unixSnob	thnkas	01:09
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sp3000	r as in Desired=Remove, c as in Status=Conf-files, it's like right there	01:12
* sivang back for a little while		01:12
sivang	now do I converse with infobot privately? :)	01:13
* sivang re-evaluate pr1.3		01:13
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sivang	~pr1.3	01:13
infobot	methinks pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update	01:13
timeless_mbp	sp3000: people using grep don't see that stuff :)	01:14
timeless_mbp	btw, is the xref happy?	01:14
sp3000	freetext isn't :\|	01:14
* timeless_mbp grumbles		01:14
timeless_mbp	how unhappy?	01:14
sp3000	unhappy	01:14
timeless_mbp	does file find work?	01:14
timeless_mbp	(or #include magic)	01:14
sp3000	former looked like no, coming from a link	01:15
sp3000	latter, didn't check	01:15
* timeless_mbp considers waking up w7 to ask the vpn what it thinks		01:15
timeless_mbp	i suspect we finally hit the "db too big" fault	01:15
timeless_mbp	oh brother	01:16
sp3000	fwiw the sourcesource was in a slightly skewed state, the first dozen dirs were curiously renamed and building	01:16
timeless_mbp	a mozillan complained about inviting a mosquito to dine on her in her hotel room during TPAC	01:16
* timeless_mbp just realized that they've received the same invitation here		01:16
sp3000	there's apparently a fairly narrow window there where it's in the right cloneable state	01:17
sp3000	probably a script starts breaking it asap :)	01:17
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Noobmonk3y	hmmm can i use new qtstuff to delve into the n900 bluetooth?	01:24
MohammadAG51	what do you mean?	01:24
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Noobmonk3y	ie, find the device, detect state, look at other devices around etc	01:27
MohammadAG51	read about bluez then :)	01:27
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Noobmonk3y	meh	01:28
Noobmonk3y	time for bed lol	01:28
Noobmonk3y	see yall tomorrow :)	01:28
MohammadAG51	night	01:28
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unixSnob	what's the command to cleanup all the unneeded crap after installing things?	01:28
unixSnob	I think deb files end up getting dumped somewhere	01:28
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steinex	unixSnob: apt-get clean will remove the debs	01:29
unixSnob	thanks	01:29
steinex	(they are in /var/cache/apt/archives/, btw)	01:30
steinex	i actually never clean them when not on space pressure, who cares... ;-)	01:30
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unixSnob	made quite a difference.. from 3 mb avail to 19	01:31
steinex	and it may be come very handy when you want to downgrade stuff	01:31
* MohammadAG51 has archives on MyDocs		01:31
MohammadAG51	1.2G MyDocs/archives	01:32
timeless_mbp	downgrading is a myth :)	01:32
* MohammadAG51 wants PR1.0 keyboard :(		01:33
* timeless_mbp wants a pony		01:33
timeless_mbp	with sponsored stable!	01:33
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steinex	after owning my n900 for a half a year now, today i began to love it - there may be 100000 apps in the android-market, but not 1 usable multi-messaging client. my girlfriend rants.	01:34
steinex	wouldn't have thought that.	01:34
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steinex	same with a podcatcher	01:35
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steinex	there are tons. of. crap.	01:35
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sivang	timeless_mbp: LOL	01:37
sivang	timeless_mbp: you sould like that ubuntu guy	01:37
sivang	*sound	01:37
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timeless_mbp	housing ponies isn't cheap!	01:37
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sivang	anyway, now it is really sleep time for me.	01:37
timeless_mbp	http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1856536&cid=34146698	01:37
timeless_mbp	> No. Not even close. Japan has the world's worst cheese. I went to a fancy restaurant and noticed they had a cheese plate. This is such a rare occurrence in Japan that I thought I must be dreaming. So I asked the waitress, "What kinds of cheese are on the cheese plate?". She replied, "Processed and cream".	01:37
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SpeedEvil	:)	01:40
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sivang	night all!	01:42
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johnx	timeless_mbp, that sounds fairly accurate, with the exception that the US version of processed cheese is actually better than the Japanese version (usually)	01:58
timeless_mbp	heh	01:58
johnx	cliff notes: food is weird in every country except the one you live in	01:59
timeless_mbp	hrm	02:00
* timeless_mbp is in France		02:00
timeless_mbp	food is good here	02:00
timeless_mbp	or rather, Kosher food is good here	02:00
johnx	it works, huh?	02:00
* timeless_mbp doesn't live here		02:00
johnx	except they eat snails	02:00
timeless_mbp	nope	02:00
timeless_mbp	not kosher	02:00
timeless_mbp	:)	02:00
johnx	they != you	02:00
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timeless_mbp	oh, and I live in Finland	02:00
timeless_mbp	and food is not good there	02:01
timeless_mbp	:)	02:01
timeless_mbp	try s/live/grew up/ ?	02:01
johnx	maybe?	02:01
johnx	except you live someplace long enough and the food starts to seem "normal"	02:01
johnx	whatever "normal" means ...	02:01
timeless_mbp	yeah, we normally get crap for food :)	02:02
joga	I guess it's a matter of cooking skills ;p	02:02
timeless_mbp	to be fair, it also depends on your budget	02:02
johnx	joga, but even ingredients can be radically different if you travel far enough	02:02
johnx	also, yes, budget	02:02
timeless_mbp	good food is available in france, but it isn't free	02:02
timeless_mbp	it's unclear whether good food is available in finland	02:03
timeless_mbp	if it is, it'd cost even more	02:03
johnx	you can certainly get good cheese in Japan ... from an import store	02:03
timeless_mbp	heh	02:03
joga	I've certainly eaten good food in finland but I'm not sure what you refer to by "good food" ;)	02:03
ltn	hey guys sorry to interrupt your chat but i was wondering if any of you guys had any problems with the email client on the n900 like crashes with the message internal error and if so how did u fix it :)	02:03
timeless_mbp	according to the thread, you can't in the US, due to USDA/FDA (?)	02:04
SpeedEvil	ltn: sorry - no clue.	02:04
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timeless_mbp	ltn: install crash reporter?	02:04
timeless_mbp	if you do that, someone could find out why you're crashing	02:04
timeless_mbp	and maybe something could happen..	02:04
wmarone	johnx: you can, but cheese isn't what I'm after if I'm in Japan	02:04
johnx	wmarone, what are you after? :)	02:05
ltn	thx	02:05
timeless_mbp	wmarone: finding kosher food in Japan is hard	02:05
johnx	there are costcos now	02:05
timeless_mbp	so i'd need cheese and other simple things	02:05
wmarone	timeless_mbp: no doubt, considering how much of a minority it would be	02:05
timeless_mbp	wmarone: yep, sadly	02:05
timeless_mbp	johnx: sounds promising	02:05
timeless_mbp	outside tokyo too?	02:05
wmarone	johnx: curry (of various kinds), ramen, soba, udon, sashimi, all the bowls, etc.	02:05
wmarone	okonomiyaki, sukiyaki...	02:06
* wmarone drools		02:06
timeless_mbp	ramen/soba/udon are noodles	02:06
timeless_mbp	sashimi is a fish preparation style	02:06
johnx	wmarone, stay there long enough and sometimes you just want food that reminds you of "home" though	02:06
wmarone	I'm being general, here	02:06
* timeless_mbp can't remember which yaki is		02:06
wmarone	johnx: I know, spent a year there back in 2003	02:06
timeless_mbp	hrm, speaking of which	02:07
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timeless_mbp	Forbidden	02:07
timeless_mbp	You don't have permission to access / on this server.	02:07
timeless_mbp	Apache/1.3.39 Server at desert Port 80	02:07
johnx	timeless_mbp, there are a couple outside tokyo	02:07
* timeless_mbp ponders		02:07
timeless_mbp	what kind of dns do i have here?	02:07
timeless_mbp	that's desert.numericable.fr fwiw	02:08
timeless_mbp	seems like a pretty stupid dns configuration	02:08
johnx	ah, something weird set for "servername" in apache2?	02:08
timeless_mbp	nah, dns set a default search of numericable.fr i think	02:09
timeless_mbp	and the canon name for the server must be desert.numericable.fr	02:09
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timeless_mbp	since i asked for http://desert/ the server got upset	02:09
* timeless_mbp got upset too		02:09
alterego	Awww	02:09
johnx	uh yeah. but there is a "ServerName" variable in the apache config	02:09
timeless_mbp	otoh, i was looking for dessert	02:10
johnx	and that variable isn't related to DNS at all really	02:10
timeless_mbp	timeless-mbp:vbox-svn timeless$ cat /etc/resolv.conf	02:10
timeless_mbp	# Mac OS X Notice	02:10
johnx	what distro is this on?	02:10
timeless_mbp	domain numericable.fr	02:10
timeless_mbp	nameserver 192.168.0.1	02:10
timeless_mbp	Darwin timeless-mbp.local 10.4.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.4.0: Fri Apr 23 18:27:12 PDT 2010; root:xnu-1504.7.4~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64	02:11
johnx	timeless_mbp, grep -r -i desert $your_apache_conf_dir	02:11
timeless_mbp	eh?	02:11
timeless_mbp	i'm on timeless-mbp	02:12
johnx	<_<	02:12
timeless_mbp	desert != timeless-mbp	02:12
timeless_mbp	but we're both in *.numericable.fr	02:12
timeless_mbp	(presumably)	02:12
johnx	yeah. you're trying to figure out why it's returning desert as its Apache ServerName and I'm telling to that it's set in the apache config	02:12
timeless_mbp	no	02:12
timeless_mbp	i'm not	02:12
timeless_mbp	i'm trying to figure out why the isp was dumb enough to configure domain in its dhcp settings	02:13
johnx	ok, then don't worry about it I guess	02:13
timeless_mbp	which results in http://desert/ being resolved as desert.numericable.fr	02:13
johnx	ah	02:14
johnx	fun times	02:15
timeless_mbp	well, "partially resolved"	02:15
johnx	I think mac os x can get address only from DHCP and set DNS somewhere else	02:15
* timeless_mbp needs to ask people if we could change our behavior		02:15
johnx	linux should be able to as well, but it depends on your distro I guess	02:15
timeless_mbp	?	02:16
timeless_mbp	sure, it could	02:16
timeless_mbp	but…	02:16
johnx	I've come to the conclusion that people can't really change their behavior ...	02:16
timeless_mbp	why can't i expect ISPs to not be stupid?	02:16
johnx	timeless_mbp, because if they weren't stupid they'd cost more	02:16
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timeless_mbp	heh	02:16
johnx	you want stupid ISPs? Verizon lied to me for a year and a half, saying I couldn't get FiOS at work, when it had already been run to the building our office was in	02:17
johnx	then they actually got out of the "unprofitable" rural telecom business and pawned us off on a smaller company, who immediately offered us the FiOS server Verizon had already installed	02:18
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muelli	hey folks. I'm trying to upgrade packages but it tells me that the rootfs is full. How could I gain more space? I tried the stuff from the wiki, but I only have 60MB free.	02:19
johnx	temporarily uninstall some games or themes?	02:20
johnx	could you link the wiki page so I know what you already tried?	02:20
muelli	sure. hang on a sec	02:20
johnx	ah, actually I wrote a little script to tell me what files were taking up the most space on /	02:20
muelli	http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space	02:21
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johnx	give this a shot to see if it points out anything big that you didn't know about: http://pastie.org/1278153	02:22
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muelli	thx	02:25
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alterego	I really wish there was a way to deploy from Qt Creator without all the packaging rigmarole.	02:36
alterego	Oh wait, I can just use a custom deploy strategy ..	02:36
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timeless_mbp	http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1856232&cid=34142068	02:39
nox-	:)	02:39
timeless_mbp	johnx: nice (re: fios/verizon)	02:39
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johnx	I just wonder how it's possible for a big ISP like that to have such incredibly poor sales tools. I mean, yeah, I except them to see tech support as a cost center, but sales?	02:43
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timeless_mbp	heh	02:59
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timeless_mbp	sp3000: the internal tracking on 171343 is great	03:01
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timeless_mbp	anyone here have any x11 (not hildon) apps handy on their n900?	03:06
timeless_mbp	actually, preferably not on, but ssh reachable :)	03:07
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mtnman	hello one and all	04:02
muelli	How much space is required to do the 1.3 upgrade?	04:03
ham5	flash dont upgrade	04:03
johnx	muelli, think it says during the install process. don't use apt-get upgrade / dist-upgrade to do it. use app manager	04:03
ham5	bout the same	04:03
bef0rd	the OTA upgrade is like 85 Mb	04:05
muelli	hm.	04:05
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muelli	Well. I configured dir::cache to be in my home directory to save space for the downloads, but still won't let me upgrade :(	04:06
johnx	anything you can uninstall, then put back later?	04:07
muelli	johnx: I looked but I can't find anything :-\ I mean, I could, but it'll save just a few MB. Hence my question, how much space the upgrade needs.	04:12
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bef0rd	maybe is not about space, what error are you getting when trying to install de update?	04:18
muelli	bef0rd: "You need to use the PC in order to upgrade, please backup now, ..."	04:19
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muelli	"Memory required: 84MB". But apt-get dist-upgrade says, 29MB are required.	04:21
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muelli	I have 68.2M available right now :-\| I don't know where I could another 20MB :-\	04:23
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nox-	hm i only had 58 MB or so free iirc... maybe temporarily uninstall some packages?	04:24
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muelli	yeah. I'll try. But I wouldn't really wnat to deinstall everything and then figure out that I don't have enough space >.< Also, lots of packages don't install to rootfs, no?	04:28
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summel	:o i want a facetime client	04:29
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kthomas_vh	how to solve authentication errors on wimax interface (or diagnose!)?	04:52
mtnman	hello one and all from a happy new n900 user	04:52
ham5	questions mtnman or just like repeating yourself?	04:53
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ham5	dont think n900 suports wimax	04:53
kthomas_vh	speak for yourself	04:54
ham5	? :\	04:54
nox-	if it did, wouldnt be in the specs?	04:55
mtnman	well i did add a bit	04:55
nox-	wouldnt it	04:55
ham5	nox sure would	04:55
mtnman	ok is there a channel to discuss non-maemo aspects of the n900?	04:55
ham5	#wimax ?	04:55
kthomas_vh	http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html	04:56
ham5	...	04:56
chem\|st	MohammadAG51: pong	04:57
SpeedEvil	n900 does not support wimax	04:57
ham5	tada.	04:59
kthomas_vh	have you tried :P ?	04:59
nox-	its not in the specs, so why should it?	04:59
kthomas_vh	heh	05:00
SpeedEvil	I have inspected the hardware schematic, and found no mention of it.	05:00
ham5	http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=863020	05:00
SpeedEvil	It's not there.	05:00
kthomas_vh	oh, you mean, it doesn't come with a wimax chipset onboard?	05:01
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ham5	not very bright?	05:02
chem\|st	kthomas_vh: are we talking 900 810 800 or 770?	05:03
kthomas_vh	:)	05:03
ham5	770 runs maemo?	05:03
kthomas_vh	chem\|st, I have 810w and 900	05:03
kthomas_vh	both with not auth to Clearwire in NYC	05:03
kthomas_vh	*will	05:03
chem\|st	810w is wimax edition n900 does not have a wimax edition	05:04
kthomas_vh	nope, but it does have microUSB	05:05
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chem\|st	kthomas_vh: USB host-mode is still in alpha state and I doubt you will get any wimax-stick working yet	05:07
Termana	good morning	05:07
kthomas_vh	heh	05:07
chem\|st	I mean properly...	05:07
kthomas_vh	ok, I'll buy that	05:07
chem\|st	what is your problem connecting with 810 anyway?	05:08
kthomas_vh	sec	05:09
kthomas_vh	"Authentication failed. Try again?"	05:11
kthomas_vh	which may be a Clear problem, this is a new deployment alas	05:11
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NightShift79	Hi guys. Could one tell me please where to find the latest theme source package template for maemo5 (N900) ?	05:45
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Macer	hm	06:33
Macer	is there an rdesktop for m5?	06:33
muelli	Macer: I guess.	06:34
Macer	muelli: not in extras	06:34
muelli	Macer: you can try the Debian package.	06:34
muelli	if there is any	06:34
Macer	i am checking testing and devel now	06:34
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Macer	and is it me or does maemo.org not fit on an n900? :) i thought the site was set up to be looked at from maemo on a device	06:35
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Macer	ah well. let me look around. i remember there being an rdp for maemo5	06:37
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Macer	ah ok... my bad. had the font size set to large	06:38
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Macer	found rdesktop in devel	06:45
Macer	wonder if pkgs are even maintained for maemo anymore	06:46
Macer	ah well. as long as it works	06:46
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jd	some packages get updated frequently	06:46
jd	and others get updates once in a while	06:46
jd	there's some new ones from times to time stoo	06:46
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jpinx-ee1pc	is repository.maemo.org not resolving ?	07:45
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jpinx-ee1pc	ignore me - dummy network was being a dummy ;)	07:47
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RobbieThe1st	Hello, all	08:14
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xDaReaperx	Hi	08:34
xDaReaperx	guys i have tiny problem with my Media player	08:34
RobbieThe1st	Hello	08:34
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xDaReaperx	it stops playing my songs in middle at times	08:34
xDaReaperx	without informing any problem ..	08:34
xDaReaperx	happens rarely	08:34
RobbieThe1st	Done any OCing?	08:34
xDaReaperx	actually happend twice yesterday when i was hearing	08:34
xDaReaperx	no i didn't	08:34
xDaReaperx	never OC'd my N900	08:34
RobbieThe1st	does the media player actually -crash- or just stop?	08:35
xDaReaperx	no crash	08:35
xDaReaperx	just stops playing	08:35
xDaReaperx	i have to play again and then it works fine	08:35
xDaReaperx	dosent happen always *	08:35
RobbieThe1st	can you resume from where you were before?	08:35
xDaReaperx	no	08:35
xDaReaperx	the seeker moves back to first	08:35
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RobbieThe1st	Hm... what earphones do you have?	08:35
xDaReaperx	Nokias	08:35
xDaReaperx	Nokias *	08:35
RobbieThe1st	These tracks you have are on MyDocs, right?	08:36
xDaReaperx	yes	08:36
xDaReaperx	in the .sounds file	08:36
xDaReaperx	all my tracks are there	08:36
RobbieThe1st	Ok, lets try this: 1. connect it to your PC, and use USB mode	08:36
xDaReaperx	ok hold	08:36
RobbieThe1st	2. Open my computer, right-click on your "nokia n900" drive, select properties	08:37
xDaReaperx	USB mode?	08:37
xDaReaperx	mass storage ?	08:37
RobbieThe1st	Yea	08:37
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xDaReaperx	ok	08:37
xDaReaperx	then	08:37
RobbieThe1st	3. I forget which tab it is, but one of them has chkdsk(checkdisk).	08:38
RobbieThe1st	you want to run it, and select any "fix automatically" options	08:38
xDaReaperx	error checking ?	08:38
xDaReaperx	in tools ?	08:38
RobbieThe1st	Yea	08:38
xDaReaperx	ok	08:38
RobbieThe1st	I'm on Linux; it's been quite a while since I've run a Windows PC, sorry.	08:38
xDaReaperx	its checking	08:38
xDaReaperx	Oh okay	08:38
xDaReaperx	lol	08:39
xDaReaperx	how did you know i ran Windows ?	08:39
RobbieThe1st	I guessed	08:39
xDaReaperx	and did you face such media player problems before ?	08:39
RobbieThe1st	Not on my n900, no(at least, not this sort of thing). On a previous player, yes. But, it sounds to me like one of two things:	08:40
RobbieThe1st	1. disk corruption, it (possibly intermittantly) not being able to read and stopping.	08:40
xDaReaperx	oh ... hmmm	08:40
psycho_oreos	under linux you use fsck	08:40
RobbieThe1st	Yea	08:40
xDaReaperx	ok it fixed the errors	08:41
RobbieThe1st	Did it say there -were- any errors?	08:41
xDaReaperx	i'll have to play some music and test it over time now	08:41
xDaReaperx	hmm no i didn't say	08:41
xDaReaperx	just said successfully scanned	08:41
RobbieThe1st	Ok, well either way	08:41
xDaReaperx	and fixed	08:41
xDaReaperx	is it because i'm using these WebOS games	08:41
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xDaReaperx	which leaves behind so many sound files	08:42
xDaReaperx	like around 600	08:42
RobbieThe1st	If you have it stop on a specific track again, try to play that track like five times. make sure it goes all the way through, or if it stops, does it stop in the same place?	08:42
RobbieThe1st	Nah, shouldn't matter.	08:42
RobbieThe1st	A note though: the Media Player won't index any files in a folder named "Private"	08:42
xDaReaperx	it stops in the same place	08:42
xDaReaperx	nop nothing is private	08:42
xDaReaperx	no folder of such	08:43
RobbieThe1st	No, so I mean, you can -make- such a folder and copy your files into that	08:43
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xDaReaperx	oh hmm oh okay the sound files for games	08:43
xDaReaperx	okay	08:43
RobbieThe1st	Also, it may continue to do the same stopping. That means there is an error in the track itself, and you need to re-copy it over from your PC	08:43
xDaReaperx	if there was an error in the track it wont play well on the PC	08:44
xDaReaperx	and it only happens at times on the N900 that it stops playing	08:44
RobbieThe1st	but sometimes it'll play that track all the way through?	08:44
xDaReaperx	yes	08:44
xDaReaperx	only at times it stop all of a sudden	08:44
RobbieThe1st	And always at the same place, right?	08:45
xDaReaperx	hmm i think it happens with the radio also	08:45
xDaReaperx	i've checked my connection nothing wrong wiith connection	08:45
xDaReaperx	Hmm probably when the songs end	08:45
xDaReaperx	dosen't happen only with one song	08:45
xDaReaperx	the internet radio i mean	08:46
RobbieThe1st	Well, with the media files, my best guess are slowly failing bits of your flash. It happens commonly, but in this case it's trying to read it and not always able to.	08:46
RobbieThe1st	Not sure about that	08:46
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xDaReaperx	hmm should i open a bug list about this ?	08:46
RobbieThe1st	You may also want to try downloading KMPlayer and using that instead, or one of the other alternative players.	08:47
RobbieThe1st	Nah, wait until you've seen that it's this(or not this)	08:47
xDaReaperx	hmm okay	08:47
xDaReaperx	I'll get KMplayer and try it	08:47
RobbieThe1st	Because if you have a bad file/disk error, that's what it -should- do	08:47
xDaReaperx	but first i'll test it again on my normal MP	08:47
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xDaReaperx	oh .. okay	08:47
RobbieThe1st	Otherwise, it'd do something like crash	08:47
xDaReaperx	i never crashed that i'm sure of	08:48
xDaReaperx	it just stops	08:48
xDaReaperx	and the seeker comes back to the start	08:48
RobbieThe1st	Yea; so it's -probably- running into some sort of error.	08:48
xDaReaperx	hmm yes could be	08:48
xDaReaperx	can this happen if i lock the screen ?	08:49
xDaReaperx	while playing	08:49
xDaReaperx	i mean the slider lock	08:49
RobbieThe1st	no, it shouldn't	08:49
xDaReaperx	hmm ok	08:49
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RobbieThe1st	If it does continue to do this, there are a few tests that can be done, see where exactly things are going wrong	08:50
xDaReaperx	thanks anyways	08:50
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xDaReaperx	okay tell me the tests	08:50
xDaReaperx	i'll try them	08:50
RobbieThe1st	I dunno	08:51
psycho_oreos	I'd probably look into strace for example	08:51
xDaReaperx	strace ?	08:51
RobbieThe1st	psycho_oreos: Isn't there a log or something?	08:52
psycho_oreos	xDaReaperx, string trace I believe it is and it traces what is going on with the program, CLI tool only	08:53
RobbieThe1st	You -may- also get some output by: 1. Open an xterminal window. 2. type "mediaplayer", press enter, then launch the media player. You may or may not get any information when things happen	08:54
RobbieThe1st	You'd see it in the xterminal window	08:54
xDaReaperx	oh okay	08:54
xDaReaperx	command line fine	08:54
xDaReaperx	i'll see hold ..	08:54
RobbieThe1st	You won't see -any- output normally(I see one line when you close the media player, but that's it)	08:54
xDaReaperx	oh	08:55
xDaReaperx	hmmm	08:55
RobbieThe1st	But if it crashes/stops	08:55
psycho_oreos	no I tried that, it won't fork to foreground	08:55
psycho_oreos	RobbieThe1st, not that I know of	08:55
xDaReaperx	okay	08:55
psycho_oreos	lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 2010-05-12 04:12 /usr/bin/mediaplayer -> maemo-invoker	08:55
RobbieThe1st	psycho_oreos: Then why does it give a filter error upon closing the media player?	08:55
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psycho_oreos	RobbieThe1st, I suppose the filter error are just output as in STDERR rather than outputting to a file	08:56
RobbieThe1st	Yea. But wouldn't that be what we want?	08:57
xDaReaperx	i assume that would give me a detailed log ?	08:57
RobbieThe1st	I don't know what, if any, logs are kept by the Maemo media player	08:58
xDaReaperx	hmm	08:58
xDaReaperx	anyways i can't CD to /usr/bin/mediaplayer	08:58
xDaReaperx	to run maemo-invoker	08:58
RobbieThe1st	It's not a directory	08:58
xDaReaperx	okay	08:58
RobbieThe1st	/usr/bin/mediaplayer is symlinked to /usr/bin/maemo-invoker	08:59
RobbieThe1st	This means that when you run /usr/bin/mediaplayer, it actually runs maemo-invoker	08:59
xDaReaperx	oh	08:59
xDaReaperx	okay fine	09:00
xDaReaperx	i get it	09:00
RobbieThe1st	In your case though, we just want to run /usr/bin/mediaplayer -	09:00
RobbieThe1st	Note that /usr/bin is in what's known as the $PATH. This means that, from any directory, typing "mediaplayer" will launch that file	09:00
RobbieThe1st	So, typing '/usr/bin/mediaplayer' will do the same thing as just typing 'mediaplayer'	09:01
psycho_oreos	it doesn't output the stuff to the file unless it crashed.. there might be another way of looking at it, that is to install syslogd	09:01
xDaReaperx	i typed mediaplayer i wont launch	09:01
RobbieThe1st	No, it won't	09:01
psycho_oreos	mediaplayer just runs in the background, like I tested	09:01
xDaReaperx	ok	09:01
RobbieThe1st	type that, press enter, then open the media player from your normal media player widget/launch icon	09:02
xDaReaperx	ok	09:02
RobbieThe1st	without closing your xterm window	09:02
xDaReaperx	okay did that	09:02
xDaReaperx	so when i close media player	09:02
RobbieThe1st	Now, play whatever track you had problems with	09:03
xDaReaperx	it might give me a single line report of only if there were crashes ?	09:03
xDaReaperx	yes playing it	09:03
RobbieThe1st	You may see information in xterm if there's an error with media player.	09:03
xDaReaperx	hmm okay	09:03
RobbieThe1st	You will -also- see an extra line when you close the media player	09:03
psycho_oreos	interesting it does, but I don't have the same issue, when I close mediaplayer from the GUI side it exits with two lines printed	09:04
xDaReaperx	Oh	09:04
RobbieThe1st	What do you see?	09:04
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psycho_oreos	Attempt to remove filter function 0x42f5a1f0 user data (nil), but no such filter has been added \| Init: 0x46567270 <--- mind you this is from my n900 (pr1.2 with custom kernel and setup)	09:04
xDaReaperx	it said attempt to remove filter function 0x417e11f8 user data (nil) , but no such fileter has been added	09:05
xDaReaperx	PR 1.3 Nokias kernel here	09:05
RobbieThe1st	RST38h: Know anything about debugging media player errors?	09:05
RobbieThe1st	I've got a PR1.3 n900 with the PR1.2-power40 kernel	09:05
xDaReaperx	oh	09:05
RobbieThe1st	But it shouldn't matter	09:05
RST38h	not really	09:06
psycho_oreos	I suppose one will need to whip out gdb :)	09:06
RST38h	but, of course, upgrading to a proper kernel is the obvious first step	09:06
psycho_oreos	afaik PR1.2 and PR1.3 kernel remains the same	09:07
RobbieThe1st	I thought they added some patches?	09:07
RobbieThe1st	RST38h: It's xDaReaperx's error, nor mine	09:07
psycho_oreos	in any case the errors is related to a memory pointer	09:07
psycho_oreos	yeah they did added patches but none that I'm aware of were related to kernel.. at least the kernel version between PR1.2 and PR1.3 remained the same.. unless they have extra patches compiled and not change the version for kernel	09:08
RobbieThe1st	RST38h: he/she's having's having problems with files stopping in the middle. I had him/her run chkdsk, not sure if that fixed the problem	09:08
RST38h	Whoever's error it is, he should be running the official kernel	09:08
RobbieThe1st	I think he/she is.	09:09
RobbieThe1st	We, however, aren't.	09:09
psycho_oreos	person in question is xDaReaperx	09:10
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xDaReaperx_	see this : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=18440	09:10
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xDaReaperx_	that RipTorn guy has the same problem	09:11
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xDaReaperx	hmm but thats with some other MP	09:11
RobbieThe1st	^^	09:11
RobbieThe1st	Though, wait... it may be using the same media engine	09:11
RobbieThe1st	== same underlying player, just a new front end	09:11
xDaReaperx	oh	09:11
xDaReaperx	ya	09:11
xDaReaperx	probably , but i don't know about Canola	09:12
RobbieThe1st	Before we go any farther, though... did your problem get fixed?	09:13
xDaReaperx	no i'm still testing it	09:13
xDaReaperx	i'm playing the 3rd song now continuous	09:13
xDaReaperx	no stop yet	09:13
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RobbieThe1st	k	09:14
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RobbieThe1st	I'm gonna play some TF2(via Wine! :P) so my responses'll be late.	09:16
xDaReaperx	ok	09:16
xDaReaperx	if there are any errors i'll paste it here	09:16
RobbieThe1st	k	09:17
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xkr47	hi	09:23
xkr47	I tried to make a irc.desktop file which I stored in ~/.local/share/applications/hildon and it shows up fine in the "all applications" browser, but when I try "Add shortcut", it is not in the list. Any idea?	09:24
xkr47	here's the contents: http://pastebin.com/ApThRdyz	09:26
xkr47	oops sorry	09:26
xkr47	here: http://pastebin.com/uJxHLbLJ	09:27
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* ilius upgrading maemo5 via Faster Application Manager ... there is 1049 packages!! :-/		09:43
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xDaReaperx	Fast App manager is not really fast	09:45
xDaReaperx	if it fails to update any catalogs it wont let you install apps	09:45
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ilius	xDaReaperx: but no problem for me!	09:52
ilius	xDaReaperx: it updates catalogs	09:52
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xDaReaperx	i gotta delete some catalogs that dont update	09:52
xDaReaperx	like the Mozill beta update catalog	09:52
xDaReaperx	Mozilla *	09:53
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RobbieThe1st	Eh... apt-get update & apt-get upgrade are far better than the package manager	09:59
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* ilius update completed successfully via faster application manager		10:41
ilius	that even don't say "don't touch your phone! don't open any application! ..."	10:42
ilius	and not prompt for restart	10:42
kerio	inb4 brick	10:45
MohammadAG	fapman was fast	10:47
MohammadAG	the dev added stuff that wasn't needed	10:47
MohammadAG	like moving package lists to /opt/fapman	10:47
RST38h	won't that save space though?	10:50
RobbieThe1st	^^	10:53
MohammadAG	not really, since the package lists are already in /opt/var	10:54
RobbieThe1st	ah	10:54
MohammadAG	so basically, I have two copies of my lists	10:54
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Gorroth	unf	11:14
Gorroth	i got ettercap to build for maemo	11:14
Gorroth	now i just need to test it and submit a package for it	11:15
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peb	Gorroth, Congratulation!	11:17
Gorroth	thanks	11:18
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Gorroth	oh, i guess i also need to package up libnet	11:20
Gorroth	but i'll do that after testing	11:20
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karname	Hi , I installed multiboot , after reboot I haven't any option in boot menu , and I see only a 30 sec loop and nothing done . can anyone help me ?	11:21
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sivang	morning	11:27
peb	morning Sivang ...	11:30
karname	Isn't any help to me ?	11:31
peb	Short question, does anyone know on the top of his head where the call(er) log is stored? The info which numbers where called or I called ...	11:31
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:50
jpinx-ee1pc	g'evening...	11:50
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MohammadAG	modest may suck, but it's easier to set up than the N8's email	11:55
MohammadAG	app	11:55
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* Noobmonk3y wakes up... slightly		11:58
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* MohammadAG pours cold water on Noobmonk3y		12:00
* Noobmonk3y farts		12:00
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nidO	the N8 at least has the option of using profimail though	12:00
MohammadAG	port thunderbird or something	12:00
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Shizzza	hi folks. coulsd you plz tell me what's the theme template to use? I started making themes with madde, but i think "hildon-theme-example-stskeeps-hildon-theme-example-stskeeps-master.tar" is not up do date... I'm good in graphics, but I have not that much coding skills. Could one point me the right direction ? Thank you	12:05
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Shizzza	hmmm,,, no one?	12:14
ArkAnGiCIA	no sorry	12:15
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MohammadAG	what does off peak and peak mean?	12:19
jpinx-ee1pc	MohammadAG: depends on context - usually tarrifs for electricity/phone conntections/etc	12:20
MohammadAG	email	12:20
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jpinx-ee1pc	fucknoes :)	12:20
jacekowski	ussualy that means that you can use it cheaper when you don't want to use it	12:21
jpinx-ee1pc	jacekowski: for email?	12:21
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jacekowski	yeah	12:21
jacekowski	maybe he's paying for e-mail traffic on his phone	12:21
jpinx-ee1pc	ah - phone/internet tarrif makes sense	12:22
jpinx-ee1pc	but probably applies to all internet connections, not just email -- my plan has timings too, for all traffic	12:23
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MohammadAG	k, wost email experience on a symbian device goes to the N8	12:25
MohammadAG	worst	12:25
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RobbieThe1st	Ouch. I'd think the n900'd be worse...	12:30
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RobbieThe1st	considering how much everyone likes to hate on it...	12:30
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MohammadAG	RobbieThe1st, I've entered the password about 20 times, it's right, I'm sure of it	12:33
MohammadAG	my email works fine	12:33
MohammadAG	but the N8 isn't mine	12:33
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BJ_Covert_Action	Hey guys, I've been poking around google and maemo.org a little bit but I can't quite find a straight answer...is there any effort or movement underway to get some version (official or not) of Flash 10.2 on Maemo 5?	12:39
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RobbieThe1st	Well, the leaked version from TI works OOTB if it gets stuck in	12:41
RobbieThe1st	though, its A, not legally distributable, and B, has no hardware accelleration... so not much better than what we have now	12:42
BJ_Covert_Action	Ah, I see	12:42
RobbieThe1st	TweakFlashSwitcher does wonders for a lot of sites	12:42
RobbieThe1st	*tweakflashversion	12:42
BJ_Covert_Action	Yeah, I was looking at that in some of the threads I've been reading	12:42
RobbieThe1st	It works. It's good	12:42
PaulFertser	Boycotting flash does even more wonders.	12:42
BJ_Covert_Action	Yeah, except then it limits my access to half the web	12:43
BJ_Covert_Action	I know there are some 10.2 or 10.1.xxxx versions of flash for some other debian based OSes, so I was kind of curious to see if any effort had gone into recompiling or reverse engineering one of those	12:44
PaulFertser	BJ_Covert_Action: that's some strange web you've got there...	12:44
BJ_Covert_Action	Well maybe not half the web, but half the web I access at least...I visit a lot of motorcycle sites...and some others, and a lot of those like to build their primary interfaces in flash	12:45
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* timeless_mbp frowns		12:47
timeless_mbp	there's a flash 10.2??	12:47
timeless_mbp	I thought TI was demoing 10.1	12:47
peb	This week I got curious faces on a couple of colleagues because I'm still using PERL (Mason) + CGIs on my websites ...	12:47
Noobmonk3y	lol	12:47
timeless_mbp	peb: because it works and stuff?	12:47
timeless_mbp	BJ_Covert_Action: so um	12:48
peb	timeless_mbp: the statement was, no one does Perl/cgi websites at this times. my response was: I do, and it works ...	12:48
timeless_mbp	Flash is not open source	12:48
timeless_mbp	it isn't remotely close to open source	12:48
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timeless_mbp	reverse engineering it is really not on the table in the civilized world	12:48
ruskie	gnash	12:48
timeless_mbp	but if you want to steal something	12:48
timeless_mbp	please don't ask for help here?	12:48
timeless_mbp	as for whether vendors (Nokia) are working on providing a newer version of flash...	12:49
RobbieThe1st	There -is- gnash, but it's not good enough quite yet, even on the desktop	12:49
timeless_mbp	that's a question for Marketing	12:49
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timeless_mbp	RobbieThe1st: there's an understatement if i ever saw one	12:49
timeless_mbp	does it support flash 7 yet?	12:49
BJ_Covert_Action	I was just trying to get a feel for what is out there timeless, that's all	12:49
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* ruskie is glad he doesn't need flash for any sites		12:50
timeless_mbp	BJ_Covert_Action: the fact that you couldn't get a straight answer from maemo.org should make the answer pretty clear	12:50
timeless_mbp	no one who knows is allowed to give one	12:50
timeless_mbp	and yes, i'm annoyed	12:50
BJ_Covert_Action	Well I never found any threads asking the question directly	12:50
timeless_mbp	i actually got direct correspondence from TI asking me to remind people that the TI binaries were for Vendors to test	12:50
timeless_mbp	not for End users	12:50
BJ_Covert_Action	I just stumbled on some where it was brought up as a side topic	12:50
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timeless_mbp	generally speaking Nokia doesn't make public commitments it isn't absolutely certain it can keep	12:51
RobbieThe1st	I'm not sure - I tried using it to play an animated video - It ended up with a highly variable framerate: It would go really slow for some scenes, then run a lot faster for others, ending up with the audio out of sync and it looking like someone with an old projector cranking it by hand	12:51
timeless_mbp	because if you do make commitments to customers, and you don't keep them....	12:51
timeless_mbp	customers get annoyed	12:51
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timeless_mbp	RobbieThe1st: nice	12:51
timeless_mbp	from an engineering perspective, and from the perspective of people who actually use our own products	12:52
timeless_mbp	we'd love to see 10.1 out there	12:52
timeless_mbp	but we obviously can't endorse theft	12:52
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timeless_mbp	or leaks	12:52
timeless_mbp	or ...	12:52
maybeArgh	murder?	12:52
timeless_mbp	well, that might be ok	12:52
RobbieThe1st	Yea	12:52
timeless_mbp	but only paper pushers	12:52
RobbieThe1st	Definately	12:53
BJ_Covert_Action	I was just asking to see, Flash and a few other things have given me headaches on Linux OSes before	12:53
BJ_Covert_Action	So before I take the plunge and dump $400 on an N900, I want to see what I will and won't be able to do with it	12:53
RobbieThe1st	That's an understatement	12:53
timeless_mbp	BJ_Covert_Action: flash has better integration on mobile than most desktop linux's	12:53
RobbieThe1st	Eh, one, you can get one for $300 or so.	12:53
timeless_mbp	it happens to be slightly dated at this point	12:53
BJ_Covert_Action	used on ebay, yeah...I haven't seen new ones for that low	12:54
timeless_mbp	but it's 9.5 codec level, not 9.0 iirc	12:54
BJ_Covert_Action	I realize that	12:54
RobbieThe1st	And, I find that with flash switcher youtube works great	12:54
timeless_mbp	i'm not sure how many sites are annoying enough to require newer	12:54
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BJ_Covert_Action	but I am not particularly worried about new and flashy (no pun intended) as long as it plays nice with some of the things I want to use it for	12:54
timeless_mbp	but keep in mind that sites that ask for 10.1 probably ask for a cpu that's 5x more powerful than your n900	12:54
RobbieThe1st	Most do, but using a version-changer fixes everything I have seen	12:54
BJ_Covert_Action	that's good to know, thanks Robbie	12:54
timeless_mbp	so just giving them 10.1 won't magically fix things	12:54
MohammadAG	if only one person could get a license to distribute it	12:54
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: got 10million USD handy?	12:54
timeless_mbp	i'm pretty sure it could be arranged	12:55
timeless_mbp	not quite sure that's enough...	12:55
RobbieThe1st	timeless_mbp: Isn't flash 10.1 supposed to be hardware-accelerated?	12:55
MohammadAG	yeah, just a sec...	12:55
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: no hurry, you can get back to me ;-)	12:55
MohammadAG	RobbieThe1st, on desktops, yes	12:55
RobbieThe1st	What about on Android?	12:55
timeless_mbp	RobbieThe1st: sure, bring your own engineers to do the acceleration	12:55
MohammadAG	actually, on desktops with windows	12:55
MohammadAG	RobbieThe1st, not accelerated on android	12:55
timeless_mbp	Adobe won't release it to platforms w/o the acceleration implementation	12:55
timeless_mbp	if it's missing, no go	12:55
BJ_Covert_Action	Meh, I've gotten 10.1 running on an old laptop with Puppy Linux that has worse hardware than the N900...it's slow, but usable	12:55
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timeless_mbp	companies for some reason seem to want an image that shows _quality_	12:56
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timeless_mbp	not just the ability to deliver useless buggy crap	12:56
timeless_mbp	(not sure why, i mean everyone loves crap, right?)	12:56
kerio	timeless_mbp: adobe missed that boat a long time ago	12:57
nidO	sometimes, crap is indeed preferable to nothing	12:57
RobbieThe1st	Problem is, they end up with failing crap, instead of buggy crap	12:57
timeless_mbp	nidO: it's all about who's observing	12:57
timeless_mbp	adobe doesn't sell to users	12:57
timeless_mbp	it sells to devs and vendors	12:57
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, though the problem here isn't adobe is it...	12:58
timeless_mbp	vendors want to know that the content they create will look the same everywhere	12:58
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: i haven't seen the contract	12:58
timeless_mbp	i don't absolutely _know_ that adobe can't release its own 10.1 for maemo	12:58
kerio	timeless_mbp: that implies that the content they create will LOOK everywhere	12:58
timeless_mbp	kerio: content is inanimate	12:58
timeless_mbp	so i don't think it implies anything of the kind =b	12:58
kerio	heh	12:58
timeless_mbp	animated content aside :o	12:59
MohammadAG	Adobe Air would be nice	12:59
timeless_mbp	i'm still waiting for Silverlight	12:59
kerio	oh god	12:59
timeless_mbp	Nokia made the mistake of announcing it w/ Microsoft a while back	12:59
MohammadAG	ms crap?	12:59
timeless_mbp	hey, they promised it!	12:59
timeless_mbp	i wanted to watch the olympics	13:00
nidO	Silverlight's nice	13:00
MohammadAG	didn't they promise 10.1 too?	13:00
timeless_mbp	but no, someone dropped the ball	13:00
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: url?	13:00
timeless_mbp	i can find urls for silverlight	13:00
kerio	timeless_mbp: http://madshakespeare.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/calvin-and-hobbes.jpg	13:00
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, for?	13:00
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timeless_mbp	oh wow	13:01
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: a promise	13:01
timeless_mbp	http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/213678.asp	13:01
* timeless_mbp boggles		13:01
timeless_mbp	apparently ms actually lived up to their promise	13:01
timeless_mbp	> Microsoft has released Silverlight, its Adobe Flash competitor, to manufacturers for Nokia's Symbian operating system. That means developers can now deploy Silverlight applications on the popular mobile platform. The technology is available at the Ovi store for Nokia S60 fifth-edition devices.	13:02
timeless_mbp	> Posted by Nick Eaton at July 6, 2010 1:15 p.m.	13:02
* timeless_mbp totally missed that		13:02
kerio	>symbian	13:02
kerio	>dead	13:02
MohammadAG	<agrees	13:02
maybeArgh	so nokia fullfilled its promise	13:02
timeless_mbp	http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-nokia-to-port-silverlight-to-symbian-phones/1236 is a ref to the commitment	13:03
timeless_mbp	maybeArgh: i'm as shocked as you are	13:03
RobbieThe1st	I wonder about darklight...	13:03
RobbieThe1st	or moonlight, whatever the OSS clone is	13:03
nidO	moonlight.	13:03
timeless_mbp	moonlight	13:03
timeless_mbp	kerio: i'm quite happy to see it die	13:03
timeless_mbp	but being dead isn't relevant	13:03
kerio	miguel de icaza is a douche	13:03
timeless_mbp	being able to keep a commitment is and was my point	13:03
timeless_mbp	and surprisingly enough, they actually managed to do it	13:04
* timeless_mbp wonders where silverlight for the n900 is		13:04
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maybeArgh	what is this n900 you speak of	13:04
timeless_mbp	> Microsoft and Nokia also will port Silverlight to Nokia Series 40 and Internet tablet devices, Microsoft said.	13:04
maybeArgh	i'm not sure anybody at nokia has ever heard of this n900	13:04
timeless_mbp	well, the n900 is an "internet tablet device", of course :)	13:04
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timeless_mbp	maybeArgh: i met ~10 nokians this past week	13:05
timeless_mbp	most of whom work in areas outside maemo-meego	13:05
timeless_mbp	and most of them had or where rather familiar w/ n900s	13:05
MohammadAG	is writing to /sys possible with QFile?	13:05
maybeArgh	don't tell nokia management	13:05
maybeArgh	you might get them in trouble	13:05
nidO	the original plan was supposedly to have silverlight support by meego 1.1, did that ever happen?	13:05
timeless_mbp	maybeArgh: heh	13:05
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timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: do you want to be in #maemo-qt or #qt-maemo ?	13:06
timeless_mbp	or just #qt?	13:06
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: plenty of people have been asking questions about Qt	13:07
kerio	timeless_mbp: with or without a ##?	13:07
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: and frankly, I think it's fair game.	13:07
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, I'm shocked to see that "where" from the minister of english composition :)	13:07
BJ_Covert_Action	Okay, I have another general maemo question: How does Maemo handle connecting to WPA encrypted networks? Is it relatively straight forward or does one have to manually hack around with WPA supplicant or something similar?	13:07
maybeArgh	works out of the box with my n900 at least	13:07
nidO	wpa2 works fine, wpa is flaky	13:08
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, I found the people there to be quite less helpful than the ones here	13:08
lcuk	MohammadAG, writing to /sys branches is the same no matter what framework you use - its permissions based	13:09
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: eep, shame	13:09
maybeArgh	although i do only get rather underwhelming performance with my wifi network at home, but that may very well by my router's fault	13:09
timeless_mbp	http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplatform/2010/06/flash_player_101_for_mobile_av.html#comment-1336 looks like Adobe is blaming Nokia	13:09
MohammadAG	lcuk, ty	13:09
timeless_mbp	oh well. blame nokia, please do so by complaining to Nokia Care	13:09
MohammadAG	I'm thinking of getting rid of system()s	13:09
BJ_Covert_Action	nidO: what about WPA2 Personal Mixed? Doesn't that run a combination of WPA 2 and WPA? Or something like that? Does that run flaky?	13:09
timeless_mbp	include an actual site you can't use because it requires Flash 10.1	13:09
maybeArgh	BJ_Covert_Action: that's what i run at the moment	13:09
timeless_mbp	providing a test site is not useful as it's liable to get you ignored as a troll	13:10
MohammadAG	system("echo hostf > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode"); doesn't look like it's the right way(TM)	13:10
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: lol	13:10
maybeArgh	BJ_Covert_Action: works well, but i "only" get around 400-500kbyte/sec transfer rates	13:10
BJ_Covert_Action	maybeArgh: okay, well it sounds like it's easier to work with than my outdated laptop and my outdated network cards on Ubuntu then...	13:10
lcuk	MohammadAG, since that runs in same scope as your app you could of course try an alternative	13:11
maybeArgh	basically all i had to do on the n900 was show available wifi networks, pick mine, enter key, be happy	13:11
lcuk	make intermediate scripts which are added to sudo	13:11
BJ_Covert_Action	hmmm, hopefully I can add my N900 to my NAT and streamline more data throughput than that for it...	13:11
lcuk	then called with system () :P	13:11
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MohammadAG	lcuk, doesn't system() launch a separate shell each time you call it?	13:12
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: Maemo is already pretty much extinct as a project. If we can't help this community veer into something logical (a "community", perhaps), we might as well just shut the channel and website down right away. I think it's been a long time since Maemo handled almost any Linux-based portable paraphernalia.	13:12
lcuk	MohammadAG, sure	13:12
MohammadAG	lcuk, then it's not memory effecient	13:12
MohammadAG	efficient even	13:12
crashanddie	MohammadAG: how long are these calls?	13:12
crashanddie	MohammadAG: if it lasts only a second or two, memory efficiency is relative.	13:13
MohammadAG	crashanddie, it's only an echo	13:14
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MohammadAG	wouldn't QFile be better anyways?	13:14
maybeArgh	by the way... that kind of wifi transfer rates are you guys getting? because 500kbyte/sec doesn't appear to be that much...	13:14
ShadowJK	the echo needs root surely	13:14
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MohammadAG	the whole app is launched as root ShadowJK	13:14
ShadowJK	I get over megabyte/s with scp. would be faster without the encryption	13:14
RobbieThe1st	Hey guys, would you mind giving this user's topic a look over? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65204&page=3 He seems to be having problems with a reboot loop after flashing	13:15
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, everything hostmode related needs root :)	13:15
crashanddie	MohammadAG: then no perm problems	13:15
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MohammadAG	crashanddie, I'm not worried about those, but I'm just wondering if QFile would be better than system()	13:15
BJ_Covert_Action	Alright, well thanks for the info guys, I'll probably be back a few more times before I buy something	13:15
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crashanddie	MohammadAG: well, it depends how you treat your code	13:15
crashanddie	MohammadAG: I don't know the under-the-hood logic of QFile, but I'm guessing it's pretty straight forward C (or C++) underneath.	13:16
crashanddie	MohammadAG: so, just do a quick benchmark, open a file 100 times and write, flush buffers and close. Do it once in QFile, once with system	13:17
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crashanddie	if you can't be bothered to do a benchmark like that, just use QFile and mark in your code that "At the time of writing, I'm not sure whether QFile is the fastest option here, but at least it's pure Qt code. Alternatives would be system() call to shell script"	13:18
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: those echo cmds are deprecated for userland anyway. You should have a script (let's call it jrbme) which is part of sudoers, and you call that script by "sudo jrbme --stopbme --vboost on --hostf", and that's it	13:19
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, sure, thats the sort of thing i meant. the adding to sudoers is the important part tho	13:20
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: it's not userland, considering that it's an app calling it -- it's just helper functions wrapped in a different language	13:21
DocScrutinizer	no, the correct script and complete system design is the important part	13:21
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: an app isn't userland? what??	13:21
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, making scripts for all functions of hostmode is worse than launching the whole app as root	13:23
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: if jrbme is started instead of bme on system startup, then you don't need any suduers entry	13:23
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MohammadAG	it's launched as root anyways (if launched by upstart or whatever it's called (init?))	13:23
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: sorry, thought jrbme was just a script that included all the logic to echo 1> to differnet files	13:23
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DocScrutinizer	k, me's away again, as I'm repeating myself here, and I took a way off to chill	13:26
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DocScrutinizer	s/way/week/	13:27
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: k, me's aweek again, as I'm repeating myself here, and I took a way off to chill	13:27
DocScrutinizer	s/ way/ week/	13:27
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: k, me's away again, as I'm repeating myself here, and I took a week off to chill	13:27
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: take care	13:28
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crashanddie	anyway, going to spain to buy fags	13:41
crashanddie	later	13:41
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alterego	Get me some	13:46
alterego	:)	13:46
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Jartza	unggh. snowing...	13:58
timeless_mbp	in HEL?	13:59
timeless_mbp	wah	13:59
* timeless_mbp doesn't have snowboots @LYS		13:59
* timeless_mbp left them @HEL thinking they were deadweight		13:59
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Necc	afternoon	14:00
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Necc	someone would be so nice to help me re-activate the swap partition after i screwed it up? :)	14:01
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chem\|st	MohammadAG: ping	14:05
chem\|st	ehrm pong	14:05
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alterego	Anyone had any problems installing i2c-tools recently?	14:06
Necc	swapon: /dev/mmcblk0p3: Invalid argument -> anyone could help me solving this, please?	14:07
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chem\|st	Necc: go ahead make my day!	14:08
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chem\|st	Necc: no ":"	14:08
Necc	there's no ':'	14:09
Necc	[~]# swapon /dev/mmcblk0p3	14:09
Necc	swapon: /dev/mmcblk0p3: Invalid argument	14:09
Necc	same happens when i type also "swapon -a"	14:09
Necc	digging /usr/bin/genfstab.awk if i may screwed up something, but no luck so far	14:10
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Necc	also here's the partition table: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4469013/temp/pt_table	14:15
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chem\|st	Necc: a .bin?	14:18
chem\|st	Necc: is there a mmcblk0p3?	14:19
chem\|st	erm ok browser is dump	14:20
Necc	doh if you need extension, it is a .txt	14:20
Necc	also i followed description of: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash#Solution_.237:_arbitrary_size_for_.2Fhome_and_MyDocs_.28PR_1.2.2F3_compatible.29	14:21
muelli	hm. should mp-fremantle-generic-pr=20.2010.36-2 be installed on my N900 with PR1.3?	14:21
chem\|st	Necc: did you mkswap?	14:22
Necc	"mp-fremantle-generic-pr is already the newest version." -> nop	14:22
muelli	Necc: so you have it installed..? Do an apt-cache policy :)	14:23
Necc	nop, not made mkswap :/	14:23
Necc	done, working :D	14:23
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chem\|st	Necc: you are welcome	14:24
Necc	thx :)	14:24
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Necc	damn i forgot so many linux commands since school... i tought it is auto-formatted	14:24
Necc	muelli: i installed PR1.3 via reflash from the zero (fiasco+vanilla) and not just tried to install it	14:25
muelli	Necc: I don't get it. What does apt-cache policy mp-fremantle-generic-pr say?	14:25
Necc	Installed: 20.2010.36-2	14:26
Necc	i think you look for this line only	14:27
muelli	hm	14:27
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muelli	it breaks for me: The following packages have unmet dependencies: mp-fremantle-generic-pr: Depends: libsdl-mixer1.2 (= 1:1.2.6-5+0m5)	14:28
Necc	can i ask another question? after executing the command: "tracker-processes -r" the default image viewer goes insane, and i loose the abilities to: 1) filter 2) open images from the file browser (it says "unable to open non-local images")	14:29
muelli	Necc: what is the full output of apt-cache policy libsdl-mixer1.2? I.e. does it list 1:1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3 from http://repository.maemo.org?	14:29
Necc	libsdl-mixer1.2:	14:30
Necc	Installed: 1:1.2.6-5+0m5	14:30
Necc	Candidate: 1:1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3	14:30
Necc	Version table:	14:30
Necc	1:1.2.6-5+0m5+ogg+mp3 0	14:30
Necc	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages	14:30
Necc	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages	14:30
Necc	*** 1:1.2.6-5+0m5 0	14:30
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Noobmonk3y	hmmmmmm	14:34
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Noobmonk3y	am i right in thinking the latest qt creator etc uses 4.6?	14:34
Noobmonk3y	oh no... 4.7.0	14:36
Noobmonk3y	hmmmmmmmm	14:36
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, update if you're on 4.6	14:38
Noobmonk3y	trying to figure out how too!	14:38
MohammadAG	help -> start updater	14:38
Noobmonk3y	no option in qtcreator?	14:38
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MohammadAG	that is in Qt Creator :P	14:39
Noobmonk3y	its not in mine :\|	14:40
Noobmonk3y	contents, index, context help, about qt creator, about plugins	14:40
Noobmonk3y	thats all i have under help	14:40
Noobmonk3y	i think the creator is fine, but under options and qt versions i have QT for fremantle PR1.2Device, i assume i need PR1.3 devices	14:41
MohammadAG	how did you install it?	14:41
Noobmonk3y	erm, can't remember, but downloaded from the nokia site i assume	14:42
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mc_teo	so hey	14:42
MohammadAG	Nokia Qt SDK?	14:42
Noobmonk3y	yup	14:42
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, http://i52.tinypic.com/sl5p53.jpg	14:42
Noobmonk3y	Moh.... me not got that :\|	14:42
MohammadAG	you iz hated	14:43
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Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/35725020-8e6a-4b31-b160-89c45f638c02	14:49
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* Noobmonk3y = fail		14:51
Noobmonk3y	i even had two extra rashers of bacon this morning, and i still fail!	14:51
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mc_teo	how can i install pyqt?	14:53
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mc_teo	its a new version now yeah?	14:54
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, mm	14:54
Noobmonk3y	lcuk, MohammadAG -> http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/b5dda07f-bf99-4f28-b0fe-c2619a689496	14:54
Noobmonk3y	thats what makes me think i am made of fail :(	14:54
lcuk	i cant watch screencast, on battery	14:54
Noobmonk3y	lol	14:54
Noobmonk3y	its just a picture	14:54
Noobmonk3y	:P	14:55
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lcuk	Noobmonk3y, thats a bit worrysome	14:58
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Noobmonk3y	:\| :\|	14:58
Noobmonk3y	do i have a borked sdk?	14:58
Noobmonk3y	QTCreator V 2.0.1	14:58
mc_teo	how can i install pyqt?	14:59
mc_teo	version 4.7 now?	14:59
mc_teo	pr1.3	14:59
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, no you just have one thats a bit out of date, but the windows update might not have been updated yet	14:59
mc_teo	repos just have version 4.6 for pr1.2	14:59
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lcuk	hm	15:00
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Noobmonk3y	mc_teo: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61745	15:01
Noobmonk3y	looks like it is in extras devel	15:01
Noobmonk3y	lcuk: so i am destined for qt fail :(	15:01
Noobmonk3y	mc_teo: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52862&highlight=PYQT+4.7 <--- i'm assuming the new one installs the same way as the old one?	15:02
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Noobmonk3y	lcuk: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads <-- looks like the latest framework for maemo is 4.6.2?	15:04
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mc_teo	Noobmonk3y: windows?	15:06
Noobmonk3y	yeah	15:06
Noobmonk3y	win 7	15:06
mc_teo	i know my windows	15:06
Noobmonk3y	:P	15:06
mc_teo	whats the problem	15:06
Noobmonk3y	^^ wondering why it seems that my qtcreator is running on 4.6.2	15:06
mc_teo	i have all the QT designer setup on my vista	15:07
Noobmonk3y	put screenshots above	15:07
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mc_teo	okay, ill look	15:07
Noobmonk3y	cheers :) :)	15:07
Noobmonk3y	it compiles and runs fine atm, but i wanna use the new qt stuff :)	15:07
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xDaReaperx	Hi	15:08
xDaReaperx	is QT only for touch devices ?	15:08
xDaReaperx	qt	15:08
mc_teo	nope	15:08
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mc_teo	its a GUI framework for any mainstream OS that uses a GUI	15:09
Noobmonk3y	xDaReaperx: it works fine on normal windows, linux etc	15:09
mc_teo	Noobmonk3y: how did you install it?	15:10
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mc_teo	since it seems to be installed in a non standard location	15:10
Noobmonk3y	from here -> i think http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads	15:10
xDaReaperx	Oh okay	15:10
xDaReaperx	ty	15:10
Noobmonk3y	non standard? eeeek	15:10
mc_teo	mine just installed in C:\Python26	15:10
mc_teo	well pyQt or Qt?	15:11
Noobmonk3y	qt :P	15:11
mc_teo	ah	15:11
Noobmonk3y	pyqt works fine, but translating my app into qt ;)	15:11
mc_teo	from here: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads which one did you get?	15:12
Noobmonk3y	Qt SDK for Windows* (322 MB)	15:13
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Noobmonk3y	maybe i shoulda got the nokia qt one :\|	15:15
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Noobmonk3y	brb 5 mins, phone	15:15
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jacktheripper	folks, I'm not able to ssh into the N900 with 'user' as account. I've setup authorizedkeys2. I get connection refused on attempt.	15:20
ham5	need to look in as root and with the pass you setup when you installed it	15:20
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ham5	s/look/log	15:20
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ShadowJK	jacktheripper, um, is sshd running?	15:21
psycho_oreos	connection refused doesn't sound like its an auth error, its probably because sshd isn't started	15:21
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jacktheripper	it's started of course, I can connect through root.	15:21
ShadowJK	yeah, or connecting to the wrong IP	15:21
lcuk	isnt there an uberlog parameter you can pass to ssh	15:21
lcuk	ssh -dddddddddd or something	15:21
jacktheripper	actually, it's connection closed	15:22
jacktheripper	not refused	15:22
jacktheripper	just that, no connection established.	15:22
zap	Anybody knows why apt-get does not work with extras-testing in scratchbox? It says cannot parse package list.	15:22
psycho_oreos	so you can connect through root meaning that you can login as root user?	15:22
jacktheripper	psycho_oreos, yes	15:22
DocScrutinizer	jacktheripper: you must not have the default "!" (or whatever) in etc/passwd for pwhash	15:23
jacktheripper	this only happens when I have the key in authorized_keys2. Otherwise it prompts for the non-existing password.	15:23
jacktheripper	DocScrutinizer, I did 'passwd -u user' earlier	15:23
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jacktheripper	oh pwhash	15:24
DocScrutinizer	also why use authorized_keys2 ?	15:24
jacktheripper	I just followed a tutorial on a site, it used dsa encryption.	15:24
jacktheripper	I don't have pwhash in my /etc/passwd.	15:25
jacktheripper	authorized_keys2 and authorized_key both have correct permissions.	15:25
DocScrutinizer	nowadays that's just authorized_keys	15:25
jacktheripper	okay, I'll try rsa encryption now.	15:26
DocScrutinizer	authorized_keys2 is obsolete nonsense	15:26
DocScrutinizer	ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3MAAA... .ssh/authorized_keys	15:27
DocScrutinizer	WFM	15:27
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DocScrutinizer	jacktheripper: and your ~ mustn't be world readable iirc	15:30
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DocScrutinizer	meamo got that wrong usually	15:30
jacktheripper	connected!, after using rsa with authorized_keys	15:30
jacktheripper	thanks a lot	15:30
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RST38h	Researchers Race To Recover Radioactive Rabbits!	15:51
RST38h	"Because the number of contaminated droppings being discovered on-site has decreased, officials now believe it's possible that just one rabbit might have been contaminated and they now are finding old droppings from it."	15:52
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alterego	Sweet, host mode is working quite nicely now :)	16:06
MohammadAG51	alterego, thanks for testing it, and thanks to PaulFertser for the patches :)	16:08
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alterego	Would you like me to work on getting auto mounting to work?	16:08
alterego	With tracker ignore as we discussed yesterday?	16:09
PaulFertser	alterego: with ke_recv?	16:09
alterego	I was thinking udev ..	16:09
PaulFertser	alterego: wth you're all running ke_recv then?	16:09
PaulFertser	(you == maemo users)	16:10
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alterego	:)	16:10
MohammadAG51	PaulFertser, heh, [16:08:19] <MohammadAG51> paul mentioned ke-recv	16:10
alterego	Hrm.	16:11
alterego	So, what is ke-recv supposed to do?	16:11
PaulFertser	alterego: i think an honest user should either disable ke-recv altogether and use udev solely, or use ke-recv.	16:11
PaulFertser	alterego: no idea, luckily i'm not a maemo user.	16:12
RST38h	Paul: You are not?	16:12
RST38h	Poor thing...	16:12
alterego	What are you using then? :P	16:12
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PaulFertser	RST38h: i even landed the device to a friend after completing the hostmode work (yesterday) because i'm so fed up with it.	16:12
PaulFertser	alterego: i'm using debian on Freerunner.	16:13
alterego	Ah	16:13
RST38h	Paul: DOn't forget reporting this to Quim Gil	16:13
RST38h	Paul: As he is responsible for tracking dev units	16:13
PaulFertser	lended	16:13
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MohammadAG51	alterego, run ke-recv-test at	16:13
RST38h	Paul:And what made it so much worse than using debian on Freerunner, where you are not even sure you can answer an incoming call with emacs? =)	16:14
maybeArgh	quim gil is still alive?	16:14
alterego	Oh, interesting.	16:14
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PaulFertser	RST38h: the problem with FR is not emacs or debian, it's inside FSO.	16:14
PaulFertser	RST38h: Quim didn't ever require me to do anything wrt this dev unit.	16:14
RST38h	Paul: But that was not my question.	16:14
Noobmonk3y	back	16:14
RST38h	Paul: YOu should still report this to Quim.	16:15
vit0	hi guys, i have a lot of big issues with PR 1.3 ... is it possible to back to PR 1.2 ?	16:15
RST38h	yes	16:15
PaulFertser	RST38h: hm, can you please explain me why should i?	16:15
vit0	but when i try, a havn't cellular phone ..	16:15
RST38h	Paul: Because it is a developer unit given by Nokia to developers and tracker internally at Nokia	16:16
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nidO	vit0 what problems are you actually having	16:16
RST38h	Paul: If they lose track of it, the last person who they have data on becomes the responsible party	16:16
PaulFertser	RST38h: if that (tracking) is important, why didn't he tell me anything about it?	16:16
RST38h	Paul: That person is you.	16:16
RST38h	Paul: No, back to my original question, if you will...	16:16
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RST38h	s/No/Now	16:17
vit0	i have prolbems with sms, arnt accesible... and the signal incrase ( sorry im french )	16:17
PaulFertser	RST38h: so i'm responsible. I gave it to my sister but i'm still responsible for it.	16:17
RST38h	Paul: Of course you are. As I said, it is a developer unit	16:17
DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: that person is paul, as he lend it to somebody, which means he still has responsibility for it	16:17
PaulFertser	RST38h: ok, what's your original question? Sorry, i got lost here.	16:17
Noobmonk3y	vito prob best to backup - flash your emmc, and then reflash 1.3	16:17
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RST38h	Paul: It was lended to meand then to you by Nokia to do software development, believe it or not	16:17
RST38h	Paul:And what made it so much worse than using debian on Freerunner, where you are not even sure you can answer an incoming call with emacs? =)	16:18
RST38h	(that was my original question)	16:18
vit0	nidO : Mes sms s'effaces et ne sont pas consultable pour certain contacte. Les sms sont en attente d'envoie.	16:18
vit0	nidO : My sms is cleared and are not available for certain contacts. Sms are waiting to send.	16:18
vit0	sorry	16:18
Noobmonk3y	vit0: do what i said, flash your emmc, and then reflash to 1.3	16:18
vit0	yes with vanilla	16:19
Noobmonk3y	oh!	16:19
Noobmonk3y	you have already?	16:19
vit0	i allready flash my phone 3 times ...	16:19
PaulFertser	RST38h: ah, i'm not able to use even telephony on it because ofono is not ready and much other functionality important for a smartphone is missing.	16:19
vit0	4 with now	16:19
Noobmonk3y	+ the vanilla emmc?	16:19
Noobmonk3y	woah thats not good	16:19
vit0	yes	16:19
Noobmonk3y	does it work fine before you re-install all your apps?	16:19
Noobmonk3y	or is it broken straight after a reflash?	16:20
vit0	no broken after reflash ..	16:20
Noobmonk3y	wow	16:20
PaulFertser	RST38h: so that's a choice between using something that mostly works (my FR) vs something that's totally not ready (ofono + plenty of stuff nobody prepared yet as contacts, resource management etc etc).	16:20
Noobmonk3y	sounds more like a nokia repair issue ;)	16:20
RST38h	Paul: Really? How come I am able to receive and make calls withN900 just fine? :)	16:20
vit0	when i receve a sms, in messagin pannel i have a new sms, but no name and i can't open ...	16:20
PaulFertser	RST38h: you just do not mind using proprietary stuff for that while i do.	16:21
Noobmonk3y	sounds like the sqlitedb may be corrupt	16:21
RST38h	Paul: Ahhahahaha	16:21
vit0	maybe, but why after flash ?	16:21
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RST38h	Paul: You do understand that the design of the toilet bowl in your restroom is patented, and so are materials most of the plumbing is made of?	16:22
RST38h	Paul: And the toilet paper has got a few proprietary patents on it too?	16:22
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PaulFertser	RST38h: software is not patentable in most sane jurisdictions and that makes hell of a difference.	16:22
RST38h	Paul: Do you already see where it is going? :)	16:22
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vit0	Noobmonk3y : For example, I just reflash my N900, I get the sms normal, but after 30 sms I have the same bugs on contact.	16:22
Noobmonk3y	vit0: good point	16:22
Noobmonk3y	that sounds really odd	16:23
Noobmonk3y	corrupt memory though(Ie n900 memory)	16:23
RST38h	Paul: Well, you did notsay patented, you said proprietary	16:23
Noobmonk3y	could be causing it	16:23
alterego	bbll	16:23
Noobmonk3y	or the n900 image was corrupted slightly?	16:23
RST38h	And, hell, a lot of stuff you are using is proprietary	16:23
nidO	you two having this conversation even relies on a lot of propietary software	16:23
Noobmonk3y	did you check the md5?	16:23
RST38h	nid0: exactly	16:23
RST38h	Every single router....	16:23
DocScrutinizer	PaulFertser: alterego: aiui ke-rcv is about menus and auto-UNmounting e.g. uSD at opening the back cover	16:23
PaulFertser	RST38h: anyway, you're not dragging me into a political discussion again, if you have something to say about the hostmode or ke-recv, i'm all ears, otherwise, sorry. You most probably know what i'd answer anyway.	16:24
vit0	Noobmonk3y : the md5 is ok, you think tue memory was corrupted ? ... i have this probleme since PR 1.3... and the signal is bad too ..	16:24
PaulFertser	DocScrutinizer: still, that's a daemon always running and capable of mounting devices as the appear.	16:25
DocScrutinizer	alterego: hostmode urgently needs proper sync; umount; as well, prior to disabling hostmode. See "safely remove" function on desktops like KDE	16:25
PaulFertser	DocScrutinizer: it listens to kernel events wrt new devices and so seems to be a natural place.	16:25
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Noobmonk3y	well, after a full reflash, the only possible issues i'd suggest are either something stayed on the device causing a problem (not likely with emmc reflash) or hardware, so possibly corrupt storage	16:25
DocScrutinizer	PaulFertser: full ack	16:25
vit0	Noobmonk3y : so whats the solution ?	16:26
Noobmonk3y	vit0: Wish i knew :( unless someone like DocScrutinizer has a clever idea, probably Nokia Care	16:26
Noobmonk3y	;)	16:27
RST38h	Paul: Thanks anyway, you provided enough entertainment for today :)	16:27
vit0	Noobmonk3y : :( ... thanks a lot my friend !	16:28
Noobmonk3y	good luck! :)	16:28
Noobmonk3y	will keep thinking about it, but is very odd	16:28
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer: after a full flash + emmc flash.. the device is still bugger, can it be anything other then corrupt storage?	16:28
Noobmonk3y	or something else just as random	16:28
PaulFertser	RST38h: i'm ok with being a clown but the way you put it is somewhat offensive.	16:29
vit0	Noobmonk3y : who, my friend have the same issues since PR1.3 .. ?!	16:29
DocScrutinizer	Noobmonk3y: borked CAL or badblocks mgmt	16:29
MohammadAG51	muhahaha	16:29
trumee	PR 1.3 UK variant still not available?	16:29
Noobmonk3y	solution: nokia care? (doc?)	16:29
MohammadAG51	Watching DVDs works now	16:29
DocScrutinizer	Noobmonk3y: what's the exactl problem?	16:30
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: you are so 90's lol... been watching dvd's for a while now	16:30
MohammadAG51	on the N900? Ha!	16:30
Noobmonk3y	vit0: - can you explain it again for Doc	16:30
Noobmonk3y	please	16:30
Noobmonk3y	they work fine for me :\|	16:31
Noobmonk3y	rip and play meh	16:31
vit0	oke lets go ( wait i try with google traduc ... )	16:31
Noobmonk3y	w00000p	16:31
MohammadAG51	Noobmonk3y, no, I meant DVDs, directly	16:31
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MohammadAG51	as in DVD discs, as in hostmode	16:32
Noobmonk3y	ohhhhhhhhhhh	16:32
Noobmonk3y	geek	16:32
Noobmonk3y	;)	16:32
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Noobmonk3y	impressive though	16:32
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Noobmonk3y	the problem with hostmode for me, the only place i would use it is home, and i have a pc for that lol ;)	16:32
MohammadAG51	while it's externally powered, what prevents you from connecting a battery?	16:32
MohammadAG51	Noobmonk3y, it helps at school	16:33
Noobmonk3y	?	16:33
Noobmonk3y	oh cool	16:33
vit0	Noobmonk3y : Bon, Mon N900 quand il reçoit des sms, au début sa marche je reçois bien, mais au bout de 30- 40 sms, les sms du contact en question sont plus accessible, le nom a aussi disparus. Je peux lire les messages en allant sur le contacte puis sms, mais depuis l'application je ne peux pas.	16:34
vit0	arf ..	16:34
Noobmonk3y	lol	16:34
nidO	I would use it at home or at work, but I have (the same) pc for both right next to me as well :p	16:34
Noobmonk3y	je ne parle pas francais ;)	16:34
vit0	Noobmonk3y : Well, my N900 when receiving sms, his early works I get well, but after 30 to 40 sms, sms of the contact in question are more accessible, the name has also disappeared. I can read messages from the contacts and sms, but since the application I can not.	16:34
vit0	sorry :)	16:35
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer: ^^	16:35
vit0	DocScrutinizer : Well, my N900 when receiving sms, his early works I get well, but after 30 to 40 sms, sms of the contact in question are more accessible, the name has also disappeared. I can read messages from the contacts and sms, but since the application I can not.	16:35
vit0	=D	16:35
Noobmonk3y	lol	16:35
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Noobmonk3y	thanks vit0 and well done, translating can be a pain - but hopefully worth the effort for you	16:35
* MohammadAG51 understood that without translation - /me is impressed		16:35
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: i kinda did too, but i did speak fluent french when i was 10 lol	16:35
Noobmonk3y	just havent spoken it since	16:36
PaulFertser	MohammadAG51: have you tried charging and hostmode simultaneously (where you use a modified powered usb hub to provide power both to additional devices and to the n900)?	16:36
nidO	I understood all the technical words that're the same in both languages	16:36
nidO	and the numbers	16:36
nidO	go me.	16:36
DocScrutinizer	vit0: Noobmonk3y: so how's that related to hw broken??	16:36
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer: surely after a flash + emmc flash - what else can it be?	16:36
nidO	DocScrutinizer: well, the problem isnt fixed by a firmware and emmc flash	16:36
Noobmonk3y	(4 flashes lol)	16:36
MohammadAG51	PaulFertser, no, not yet, but my cable seems to turn on my hub when connected to a PC	16:36
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Noobmonk3y	but thats why i asked you ;)	16:36
MohammadAG51	(y-cable's connected, not the hub itself)	16:37
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DocScrutinizer	well, if that's a bug in conversations app (and there are well some tickets against 1.3 conversations, esp regarding SMS), how would a reflash fix that?	16:37
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vit0	DocScrutinizer : Noobmonk3y : My friend have the same issu since PR1.3 ..	16:38
Noobmonk3y	no, but more people would see it? (maybe?)	16:38
nidO	well, the bug is obviously not consistent	16:38
nidO	citation = all the people who have no problems.	16:38
nidO	like me	16:38
Noobmonk3y	vit0: Doc's explanation may be right then, but sounds odd	16:38
Noobmonk3y	nidO: :)	16:38
DocScrutinizer	nidO: that means the bug is not understood completely	16:38
PaulFertser	MohammadAG51: some would like to have some kind of "docking station" for n900. Also consider using your n900 for car navigation when you want to connect an external mass storage or even a special car controller via usb. So charging during hostmode would be rather nice to have.	16:38
Noobmonk3y	ooo PaulFertser - a car docking station sounds good :)	16:39
vit0	mm i don't understend DocScrutinizer explanation, so reflash isn't the solution ...	16:39
MohammadAG51	indeed, but not possible with bme :/	16:39
MohammadAG51	so i'd need help with jrbme to test it	16:39
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DocScrutinizer	vit0: what's there you don't understand? there are bugs in conversation app in PR1.3	16:40
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer: anyone know where it originates from? therefore people can try to bypass it?	16:41
DocScrutinizer	Noobmonk3y: please check trac!	16:41
DocScrutinizer	bug 11450 for example	16:41
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11450 The SMS log in conversations doesn't display last sms's	16:41
vit0	DocScrutinizer : ok i understend, so its ' normal ' my bugs ...	16:42
DocScrutinizer	yes	16:42
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DocScrutinizer	err	16:42
DocScrutinizer	'yes'	16:42
Noobmonk3y	vit0: yes, but i'm now reading the forums/ bug pages to try and find something similar, the good thing about bugs is people find work-arounds, before fixes normally	16:43
DocScrutinizer	bug 11456 as well	16:44
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11456 History of every conversation (SMS, IM) empty after update to PR1.3	16:44
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vit0	mmm ok i see ...	16:45
alterego	DocScrutinizer: noted	16:47
alterego	Also, I didn't need to enable boost for powered devices :)	16:47
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MohammadAG51	alterego, cool, so I guess step 2 is optional :)	16:49
DocScrutinizer	alterego: I'm working on a bme replacement called jrbme, which also handles hostmode correctly, among other things. Suggestions how to make sure I umount prior to stopping hostmode there are much appreciated	16:49
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: cool, I'll do some research on it. Also, do we have charging when in host mode?	16:51
alterego	I know it was a possibility in some of the earlier discussions	16:52
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DocScrutinizer	probably umounting still should get handled in whatever app or daemon did the mount, but jrbme will want to check if the plugged peripheral is "in use" and refuse to stop hostmode unless --force'd if that's the case	16:52
DocScrutinizer	alterego: sure	16:53
MohammadAG51	assuming ke-recv doesn't work	16:53
alterego	Yeah, should also have a info message saying do not remove, and then it's now safe to remove.	16:53
MohammadAG51	alterego, can't something be done in the app?	16:53
MohammadAG51	or ideally, a status bar icon to unmount (ala N8)	16:54
alterego	And of course educate users about attach/detach	16:54
alterego	That would be neat.	16:54
MohammadAG51	have a list of what's mounted, show a list of what to unmount	16:54
MohammadAG51	since the app itself did the mounting, keeping a list should be easy	16:55
alterego	well, it's all /dev/sd$	16:55
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alterego	Also we can find out whether it's usb bus connected to be sane anyway	16:55
DocScrutinizer	alterego: that comes quite naturally as users will kill their data when removing memstick without proper "remove safely" (as on every other system), and stopping hostmode via jrbme will yell if the umount hasn't been done	16:56
alterego	How stable are the kernel patches? I'm gonna create a uboot kernel from them so I can still use meego	16:56
MohammadAG51	stable	16:57
MohammadAG51	alterego, no	16:57
MohammadAG51	there's sr0 for dvds	16:57
alterego	Might also work on applying the patches to the meego kernel and see about getting it working on there.	16:57
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: lsusb will tell you	16:57
alterego	Indeed	16:57
alterego	It's all in sysfs anyway	16:57
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DocScrutinizer	jrbme will just check if anything is mounted on USB and refuse to stop hostmode if it's unsafe to do so	16:59
alterego	How is that coming along anyway?	17:00
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, have you daemonized it yet?	17:00
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: slowly as I'm feeling like "eeew, hostmode" and "eeew, maemo" atm	17:01
DocScrutinizer	IOW I'm pissed	17:01
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javispedro	morning gentlemen	17:01
alterego	:(	17:01
alterego	Hey javispedro	17:02
MohammadAG51	hey javispedro	17:02
DocScrutinizer	lo javispedro	17:02
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javispedro	I see that you take the "easy" part in h-e-n seriously :)	17:02
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: ever did	17:02
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javispedro	stuff about which block devices are on usb should be in sysfs	17:03
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DocScrutinizer	yoh	17:03
javispedro	on a desktop system udev handles/remembers it for use by gnome-volume-manager or similar daemons	17:03
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javispedro	(in fact it saves information about which block devices are owned by which usb device so as to allow "Extract the entire device safely" to work)	17:04
DocScrutinizer	I'm thankful for hints here	17:04
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alterego	I'd prefer udev personally	17:04
Venemo	hey guys	17:04
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alterego	Would make things more simple for you'd I'd have thought too.	17:05
javispedro	alterego: unfortunately on the n900 udev has half of the rules you've come to expect	17:05
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: alterego: consider a hub with several peripherals plugged in	17:05
alterego	javispedro: sure, but that's easy to fix :)	17:05
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Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: fixed my qt install!	17:05
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I'd make a udev rule similar to the rule that on a desktop builds /dev/disk/by-path/	17:06
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you can try this on your desktop -- see /dev/disk/by-path/ contents after/before plugging in a usb mass storage devie	17:06
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: good point	17:07
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DocScrutinizer	that's app level though, for jrbme I got simpler means to check if anything still needs hostmode, I guess	17:07
alterego	Yeah, and mount my vol name or id	17:08
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I do not know a simpler way =)	17:08
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: and currently I don't really care about app level, as that's owned by others	17:09
javispedro	if musb is sane everything in by-path will be prefixed by path to musb itself	17:09
javispedro	eg platform-musb (didn't check)	17:09
alterego	Is there absolutely no chance of auto enumeration?	17:09
javispedro	so you could just umount every whose path starts by platform-musb	17:09
javispedro	*every device	17:09
javispedro	that would kill every usb device	17:10
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alterego	yeah, much better, and once all devices are safely unmounted turn off host	17:10
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alterego	mode	17:10
DocScrutinizer	I won't do that in jrbme	17:10
DocScrutinizer	(umount)	17:11
DocScrutinizer	unless --force	17:11
javispedro	ah, you just want detection then?	17:11
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DocScrutinizer	for jrbme? yes	17:11
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javispedro	dunno if there is a simpler way but checking if the device is mounted would be also trivial enough by this strategy (just match /etc/mtab with the device name)	17:12
alterego	jrbme should just know when it's safe for host mode to be disabled, shouldn't do any u/mounting. But maybe notify user of hostmode being in use.	17:12
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DocScrutinizer	for --force I consider sth along path "sync; fuser -k..."	17:12
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javispedro	on the N900 for ex. there's currently a rule that associates a block device with a mmc slot number	17:13
javispedro	(udev rule)	17:13
DocScrutinizer	alterego: notifying is on my specs, two flavours	17:13
javispedro	so that (I guess) when you open the mmc cover system umounts proper partitions	17:13
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javispedro	P: /block/mmcblk1/mmcblk1p3	17:14
javispedro	E: SLOT_NUM=0	17:14
DocScrutinizer	alterego: direct notifications via dbus call for a banner, or alternatively feedback to app calling the userland instance of jrbme which communicates to the daemon	17:14
alterego	uhuh	17:15
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alterego	N900 not recognising my partition table on this drive.	17:15
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I like to exploit exactly same scheme for jrbme --force --hostoff	17:17
DocScrutinizer	opening back cover is exactly same event (on a sematic level) as telling jrbme to stop hostmode unconditionally	17:18
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DocScrutinizer	semantic*	17:18
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Noobmonk3y	meh	17:20
Noobmonk3y	new wt works fine, wont test on device now though :\|	17:20
DocScrutinizer	anyway, cya peeps	17:20
Noobmonk3y	ciao	17:21
javispedro	cya	17:21
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jvesiluoma	Hmm, should the usb host mode thingie work with cameras? For example, can I copy data from EOS 400D straight to N900?	17:23
SpeedEvil	In principle, yes.	17:23
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SpeedEvil	Exact method may vary, and the support of the base software probably won't be there.	17:23
Venemo	host mode? is it now working?	17:24
SpeedEvil	- you wouldn't want tracker to index it.	17:24
SpeedEvil	Venemo: almost	17:24
SpeedEvil	Venemo: there are wrinkles	17:24
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Noobmonk3y	hmmmmm	17:24
SpeedEvil	jvesiluoma: but if you're asking 'can I copy the pictures off' - then yes	17:24
Noobmonk3y	ok.... qt builds, and sends it to the device	17:24
Noobmonk3y	says it is running but device isnt running it	17:24
Venemo	SpeedEvil: do you have a link to the details?	17:24
Noobmonk3y	(Reading database ... Finished running remote process. <---instantly says that	17:25
SpeedEvil	no	17:25
jvesiluoma	SpeedEvil: okay nice, and yes, I'm addicted to technical specs also =)	17:25
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SpeedEvil	jvesiluoma: Also - doesn't the eos400d do bluetooth?	17:26
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SpeedEvil	Or have I misremembered.	17:26
jvesiluoma	When it is released, I'll plan to add it to my web interface thingie, there are many possibilities...	17:26
SpeedEvil	(my cameras come a lot cheaper, typically broken, from ebay)	17:26
jvesiluoma	SpeedEvil: no, EOS 400D doesn't have bluetooth	17:26
SpeedEvil	ah	17:26
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jvesiluoma	humm...installing qole's SDK image right now...have to test if I manage to compile gstmjpg with it so I can add it to my webinterface	17:28
jvesiluoma	that way users could see video from frontcam (for example) in real time if their N900 is lost or stolen...	17:29
Noobmonk3y	does the rf command work like the del command? (hehe) wanna delete all debs in a folder on the n900)	17:29
Noobmonk3y	or just delete all files, but not sub-folders	17:29
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Noobmonk3y	yay done	17:30
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Noobmonk3y	ok... i click run in qt .... it creates a random deb... then starts remote app - creates the healthcheck_0.0.1_armel.deb	17:31
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Noobmonk3y	then instantly says it is finished	17:31
Noobmonk3y	so... problem with dpkg?	17:31
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DocScrutinizer51	~tell Venemo about hostmode	17:36
Bash	hey guys	17:38
MohammadAG	Venemo, Noobmonk3y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDzUG-bno6Q	17:38
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MohammadAG	mplayer, so it's raping the CPU	17:39
FauxFaux	MohammadAG: <3 it's so nice seeing people outside of my pedophile ring use "rape" as a verb in that situation. It really annoys people at work.	17:40
Venemo	DocScrutinizer51: thx :)	17:40
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MohammadAG	FauxFaux, LOL	17:41
Bash	any epic person who knows digital logic/logic gates wanna help out a bro with his uni assignment?	17:41
Venemo	MohammadAG: nice video	17:41
Venemo	MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer: how user-friendly it is?	17:42
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DocScrutinizer51	42	17:42
MohammadAG	Venemo, http://i51.tinypic.com/b4xl4z.jpg	17:42
Venemo	MohammadAG: hm, looks okay :)	17:43
Venemo	MohammadAG: does this stuff also do the nasty things like disabling/reenabling bme and such?	17:43
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RST38h	Hurrrraaaaah!	17:44
alterego	Venemo: yup	17:44
RST38h	Problem solved.	17:44
MohammadAG	bme is disabled in the constructor, enabled in the destructor	17:44
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MohammadAG	alterego, not as bad as before :P	17:44
alterego	Heh	17:44
Venemo	and what about the jrbme thingy?	17:44
MohammadAG	thanks to PaulFertser :)	17:44
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RST38h	Mohammad: btw, what have you changed in the midnight commander? =)	17:45
MohammadAG	RST38h, original maintainer returned :)	17:45
RST38h	you mean, zap?	17:46
zap	um?	17:47
MohammadAG	andrew	17:47
RST38h	oh	17:47
zap	hello :)	17:47
MohammadAG	oh, he's zap?	17:47
MohammadAG	hey zap :)	17:47
zap	RST38h: I've got a N900 in the meantime	17:47
zap	MohammadAG: ;)	17:47
MohammadAG	small internet :P	17:47
RST38h	Anyone who feels that patent quality is just far too high nowadays will be glad to hear that the USPTO has decided to ditch four of their seven tests for obviousness.	17:47
zap	small world in general	17:47
RST38h	zap: welcome tosuffering :)	17:48
zap	RST38h: 4.7.4 is still in testing, not ready for public use yet	17:48
alterego	Heh	17:48
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zap	some people are getting wrong rendering for a unknown problem	17:48
Venemo	RST38h: if I live in the EU, do those crappy US patents matter to me at all?	17:48
nidO	indirectly	17:48
zap	Venemo: your US bank accounts may be arrested, for example	17:49
Venemo	zap: I don't have anything in the US	17:49
RST38h	The British rap star DJ Ironik was in hospital last night after being stabbed in the left buttock by robbers who had tracked him by Twitter	17:49
zap	well, who knows :)	17:49
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: Great dvd choice!	17:49
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RST38h	Next time you post to twitter...[insert ass joke here]	17:49
zap	RST38h: how ironic	17:49
Noobmonk3y	lokos a bit laggy though ;)	17:50
RST38h	zap: I am sure they felt the same =)	17:50
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, mplayer :)	17:50
Noobmonk3y	lol	17:50
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Noobmonk3y	btw MohammadAG New QT version wont run on my device :9	17:51
Noobmonk3y	:(	17:51
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: what new Qt version?	17:51
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, muhahaha... huh?	17:51
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Noobmonk3y	i dloaded the Nokia QT CReator	17:52
Noobmonk3y	(rather than qt creator) ie the one with mobility etc	17:52
Noobmonk3y	builds and transfers to device	17:52
Noobmonk3y	but no running :(	17:52
MohammadAG	download the proper SDK	17:53
zap	RST38h: you mean they stabbed him just 4 lulz?	17:53
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Venemo	zap: anyway, how are patents related to arresting bank accounts?	17:55
zap	Venemo: if some us company sues U	17:55
zap	for breaking their patents	17:56
Venemo	zap: aah...	17:56
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Venemo	zap: so if I don't have anything in the US, I can safely not care about US patents, right?	17:56
zap	well, some guys were thinking the same	17:57
zap	then they forgot it, and went to us for holidays, or conferences, alike...	17:57
Venemo	zap: and?	17:57
Venemo	zap: they got arrested when they went to the US?	17:57
zap	and got under arrest. Moloch never sleeps.	17:57
Venemo	zap: that is just lol	17:57
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Noobmonk3y	aghhhhhhhh idont get QT	18:02
Noobmonk3y	is the PR1.3 running 4.7?	18:02
Noobmonk3y	or 4.6.2?	18:02
GeneralAntilles	4.7	18:02
MohammadAG	4.7	18:02
GeneralAntilles	Only notable update in the release.	18:02
Noobmonk3y	so i need to dload this thing? http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/8e1dab6f-5d7e-4ce9-b2b3-8a3874eb7e24	18:02
Noobmonk3y	to be able to qmake from my pc?	18:02
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: just use the Nokia Qt SDK, that installs everything you need	18:03
Noobmonk3y	Venemo: Compiles, and sends it to the device, nothing happens	18:04
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: after installing it, update it with its updater	18:04
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: hm, interesting	18:04
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, can the device start it?	18:04
MohammadAG	manually	18:04
MohammadAG	i.e, /usr/local/bin/healthcheck	18:04
Noobmonk3y	http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/c2525f88-6f20-49ce-b3ce-1788af6f0e63	18:04
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: runs fine!	18:05
Noobmonk3y	ok, so why does that work, what is qt not doing?	18:06
MohammadAG	running it on device :)	18:07
MohammadAG	madde related probably	18:07
Noobmonk3y	;)	18:07
Noobmonk3y	hmmmmmmm	18:07
Noobmonk3y	any idea what to do?	18:07
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: did you upgrade the SDK?	18:07
Noobmonk3y	Venemo, i installed the Nokia QT one (Was previously using the plain old QT one)	18:08
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: and DID YOU UPGRADE THE DAMN THING?	18:08
Noobmonk3y	nope lol	18:08
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: with its updater tool	18:08
* Noobmonk3y goes and upgrades		18:08
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: please try?	18:08
Noobmonk3y	Venemo: wasnt use to being able to do that lol	18:08
Noobmonk3y	trying ;)	18:08
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: there is an "SDK Maintenance tool" and an "SDK updater tool" I think	18:08
Noobmonk3y	trying the update one :)	18:09
Noobmonk3y	no updates	18:09
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: well that's interesting, 'cause the current one on their site is out of date (at least it was a week ago)	18:10
Noobmonk3y	lol!	18:10
Noobmonk3y	will just dloaded it an hour or so ago	18:10
Noobmonk3y	s/will/well/	18:10
infobot	Noobmonk3y meant: well just dloaded it an hour or so ago	18:10
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: "Date added: 03 November 2010" yeah this may be okay then	18:11
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: what does Qt Creator say when you press the play button?	18:11
Noobmonk3y	Venemo: http://www.screencast.com/users/noobmonkey/folders/Jing/media/126067b3-39a0-4e1b-90ec-4a9a77bb8f77	18:12
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: okay.	18:12
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Noobmonk3y	normally it stays reading until i close it	18:13
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: go to the project tab	18:13
Noobmonk3y	k	18:13
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: then the Maemo build options	18:13
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* javispedro ponders		18:13
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: and check the "skip packaging step" option	18:13
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: and try then	18:13
javispedro	is there any reason stock Maemo doesn't recognize mmcblk1p8 onwards?	18:13
javispedro	sfdisk shows them but neither kernel knows about it nor device nodes are created.	18:14
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: some moron thought it would be a good idea to make a .deb package on every build an install it on the device on every run	18:14
Venemo	~nuke the morons who thought that it was a good idea	18:14
Noobmonk3y	ahaaaaaaaaaa	18:14
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at the morons who thought that it was a good idea ... B☢☢M!		18:14
MohammadAG	should it o_O	18:14
Noobmonk3y	that works!	18:14
MohammadAG	Venemo, ++	18:14
MohammadAG	javispedro, tried rebooting?	18:14
javispedro	yeah...	18:14
javispedro	iirc this is the second time this happens to me...	18:15
Venemo	MohammadAG: at the beginning of the summer, they figured to make .debs every time	18:15
Venemo	MohammadAG: on my request, the guy put in this "skip packaging step" option	18:15
Noobmonk3y	Venemo: ;) - genius!	18:15
Venemo	MohammadAG: and promised that they'll gonna get it right...	18:15
Noobmonk3y	thank you v much	18:15
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: you're welcome... :)	18:16
MohammadAG	Venemo, did they? :P	18:16
Venemo	MohammadAG: not yet, but I stopped caring about it	18:16
MohammadAG	heh	18:16
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MohammadAG	I just put it in a wrong IP	18:16
MohammadAG	then I copy the binary manually	18:17
Venemo	MohammadAG: more correctly, I didn't check it for some time, but as Noobmonk3y can tell, ultimately they failed	18:17
Venemo	MohammadAG: what I hate about it is it is not checked by default	18:17
Noobmonk3y	yup Venemo ;) - tis sooo random	18:17
Noobmonk3y	why the other version works fine	18:17
Noobmonk3y	and that one fails	18:17
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Venemo	MohammadAG: so it screwes up my extisting debian folder if I forget to check it	18:17
Noobmonk3y	now i've forgotten what code i was gonna add lol	18:17
Venemo	MohammadAG: in some pre-release, the thing automatically created a .desktop file for my app (even if it had one!!!), and put gibberish stuff about it in the .pro file	18:18
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Venemo	MohammadAG: with no option to turn this off... it was then when I stopped caring	18:19
Venemo	MohammadAG: fortunately that anti-feature didn't make it (yet?) into the stable version	18:19
MohammadAG	it's not in it :P	18:19
RST38h	mooo, javispedro	18:19
MohammadAG	I don't use it for final packaging	18:19
javispedro	moo RST38h	18:19
MohammadAG	I use scratchbox for that	18:19
javispedro	RST38h: done anything evil recently?	18:19
Venemo	MohammadAG: me neither, I use the "skip packaging step" feaure, added by a sane member of the Qt Creator team	18:20
javispedro	ah, Apple stores already hiring for the Christmas marketing spree.	18:20
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RST38h	javispedro:Debugged a certain project to make sound work	18:21
RST38h	javispedro: Just finished, feeling like a turtle just after laying eggs.	18:21
javispedro	heh.	18:22
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* javispedro shuts n900 off for a while in a futile attempt to get it to recognize more than 3 logical partitions...		18:23
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RST38h	you should create some logical drives and install MSDOS to recognize them!	18:24
* RST38h climbs a tree, really quickly		18:24
MohammadAG	javispedro, sync	18:24
Venemo	javispedro: sorry if I'm mistaking you for someone else, but wasn't it you who worked on the OpenTTD for Maemo?	18:25
javispedro	~chase RST38h	18:25
* infobot chases RST38h		18:25
javispedro	Venemo: I am the latest one in a series of pour sools	18:25
javispedro	*poor	18:25
RST38h	javispedro: Check out Fennec latets beta btw.	18:25
javispedro	MohammadAG: sync what? it is off =)	18:25
Venemo	javispedro: TTD is one of my all-time favourites :)	18:25
RST38h	Incredibly, it has become USABLE	18:25
Venemo	javispedro: why do you say poor souls?	18:25
MohammadAG	`sync`	18:25
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: sync doesn't help for partition tables	18:26
javispedro	Venemo: because there's a lot of work to be done even up to the point you could publish a paper about it	18:26
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RST38h	"How I suffered porting a desktop-grade game to show up at the 3.5" screen"	18:27
javispedro	a question: does anyone have more than 3 logical partitions on N900 external sd?	18:27
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: if you can't remove and redetect the phys dev, you'll probably need to reboot	18:27
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I've reboot two times by now	18:27
Venemo	javispedro: well the latest version is quite playable (as far as I can see)	18:28
DocScrutinizer	for external SD a opening and closing back cover should suffice	18:28
* javispedro does dmesg \| vi -R not remembering this is messybox, causes havoc in system		18:28
Venemo	javispedro: what is it that needs work?	18:28
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javispedro	Venemo: dialogs do not fit in 400x200 resolution, and 800x480 means too high DPI which means many people complain	18:28
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Venemo	javispedro: well yeah	18:29
javispedro	Venemo: weird audio subsystem which means packagers have to rewrite it (like previous maintainer did... I proceeded to throw his work and now I wish I still had it)	18:29
Venemo	javispedro: I use it at 800×420 usually	18:29
javispedro	me too.	18:30
Venemo	javispedro: wouldn't recommend it for visually impaired people, that's for sure, but hey, TTD on the N900!!!	18:30
Venemo	javispedro: are the upstream authors helpful with it?	18:30
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javispedro	I guess they would if I bothered to bother them =)	18:31
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Venemo	javispedro: mhm :P	18:33
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: what's ?fdisk telling about your parition table?	18:35
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.pastebin.com/dJUAsxGA	18:37
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you're aware you have a max of 4 real partitions on a msdos partition table, on of which can be a logical partition which points to a linked list of "extension blocks"?	18:37
javispedro	yes, note "logical partition"	18:37
chrissbx	Hello. I've tried to install the ssh client+server package, entered a root password when asked for it, now sudo won't give me root with either rootme nor the pw that I chose. Ideas?	18:38
javispedro	I seem to kinda remember that Maemo had a problem where the initramfs had only device nodes up to p7, but that was a) Diablo b) either way shouldn't make the kernel misreport partition count	18:38
Venemo	chrissbx: use 'sudo gainroot'	18:38
javispedro	(damn kernel <-> user space device node renaming )	18:39
chrissbx	hm, enable RD mode; going to read up about that	18:39
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: your partition table is rather crippled, it really shouldn't have /dev/mmcblk1p3 and /dev/mmcblk1p4	18:39
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I think it does, those are the 4 primary partitions you were speaking of	18:39
javispedro	(not to mention that desktop gets it right)	18:40
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: usually 'Extended' needs to be the last physical partition	18:40
javispedro	hm..	18:40
DocScrutinizer	you got another 2 bogus unused empty phys parts after that	18:40
javispedro	hum	18:41
javispedro	either way	18:41
javispedro	since it seems the issue only appears for partitions >= 8	18:41
javispedro	I will make a few logical partitions primary ones.	18:41
javispedro	and leave the issue for now.	18:41
javispedro	s/a few/two	18:41
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: also partitions quite usually are required to be strictly monotonically increasing in cyl nr etc. Your /dev/mmcblk1p3 and /dev/mmcblk1p4 are perverted in a nmber of ways	18:43
javispedro	it is not such a weird setup	18:43
javispedro	DOS itself would use it	18:43
javispedro	as it would not allow more than one primary partition at all	18:44
javispedro	but I do not remember if it would place extended on #4 or #2	18:44
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sivang	lo frals	18:45
javispedro	either way, as desktop works with this card this means that code parsing mbr for n900 is not the same as code parsing mbr for usb mass storage on desktop	18:45
MohammadAG	chrissbx, install rootsh	18:46
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: what? DOS not allowing more than 1 primary? Nope	18:46
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DocScrutinizer	DOS invented that shit	18:47
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: boot DOS. fdisk. Type 1 (Create new DOS partition or logical drive). Type 1 (Create new primary partition). "Primary partition already exists".	18:48
* javispedro knows it by hand		18:48
DocScrutinizer	never seen that, in 30 years	18:48
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javispedro	one would usually create "logical drives" on a drive that already has a primary partition	18:49
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DocScrutinizer	nope, you usually create logicals on a drive that needs more than 4 partitions	18:50
javispedro	not on pure DOS :)	18:50
javispedro	Go check it, I'm quite sure.	18:50
PaulFertser	javispedro: that's limitation of dos fdisk only, even dos could use several primary partitions all right.	18:50
PaulFertser	javispedro: you can't create it but can use.	18:50
valdyn	funny thing is that dos allows only one primary while dos partition tables allow 4	18:50
javispedro	PaulFertser: old DOS couldn't	18:51
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I created 4 partitions on DOS when ther's not yet been any concept about logical	18:51
javispedro	PaulFertser: remember tricks hiding other primary partitions before booting DOS	18:51
PaulFertser	javispedro: hm, how old? msdos 6.22?	18:51
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: logical partitions being an extension on top of the original limit of 4	18:51
javispedro	and by hiding I mean just changing MBR partition ID so that only one had FAT	18:51
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javispedro	PaulFertser: iirc 6.22 cannot.	18:52
javispedro	PaulFertser: the FAT32 ones being the first that can	18:52
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: whatever, there MUST NOT be phy partitions after Extended	18:52
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unixSnob	W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org diablo Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY E40DC434616730BD	18:53
chrissbx	What do you recommend for a better shell experience? At least cursor up, to get back the history items. Bash would be nice I guess.	18:53
unixSnob	where can I get that key?	18:53
DocScrutinizer	delete /dev/mmcblk1p3 and /dev/mmcblk1p4 and everything will be fine I guess	18:53
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: that might be right (I really dunno what's good practice) but the issue here is that desk kernel allows it, while N900 seems to get confused	18:53
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: here's the weird part: as the mbr is just a fixed-size 4 row table, you cannot actually delete a primary partition	18:54
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you can just set it to type 0	18:54
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: it's "outside specs" so undefined behaviour	18:54
PaulFertser	javispedro: i found something related: http://www.freedos.org/freedos/news/technote/txt/028.txt	18:54
javispedro	PaulFertser: their description of MSDOS behaviour matches what I had in mind.	18:55
javispedro	PaulFertser: sorry, Arkady's description =)	18:55
SpeedEvil	tehre is bash in repos chrissbx	18:56
* javispedro decides to delete entire mbr and recreate it		18:57
javispedro	hopefully I do not need to use DOS fdisk =)	18:57
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I managed to create perverted partition tables several times in my life, by doing things like I seee at your pastebin. Usually when I use cfdisk in a sane manner (like it's supposed to be, create phy first, then 1 ext and as much log inside that as you want) everything is fine. Otherwise BAD THINGS happen	18:57
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I think you believe I've created partitions 3 and 4	18:58
javispedro	I didn't, they're empty.	18:58
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javispedro	There's just no way I can delete them because mbr is fixed 4row table.	18:58
javispedro	and I need to put _something_ in there.	18:58
javispedro	so 0, invalid.	18:58
DocScrutinizer	so I got no idea about fsckng sfdisk. Use a sane tool :-P	18:58
* javispedro boots gparted		18:59
* DocScrutinizer suggests cfdisk		18:59
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* javispedro does a test..		19:00
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unixSnob	nevermind.. found it	19:01
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* javispedro creates seven fat32 partitions, three primary ones, a extended one, and four logical ones.		19:02
javispedro	I bet it's going to fail :)	19:02
Noobmonk3y	grrrrrrrrr	19:03
Noobmonk3y	ok, so ...	19:03
javispedro	desktop kernel reads them: sdd: sdd1 sdd2 sdd3 sdd4 < sdd5 sdd6 sdd7 sdd8 >	19:03
Noobmonk3y	PR1.3 has QT 4.7	19:03
Noobmonk3y	does it include mobility 1.0?	19:03
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MohammadAG	is this legal? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65221	19:04
Noobmonk3y	lol good question	19:05
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javispedro	n900 says: mmcblk0: p1 p2 p3 p4 < p5 p6 p7 >	19:05
kerio	why the hell do you need that many partitions	19:05
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: Can i use QTmobility on the n900 now? (PR1.3 etc)	19:05
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: http://pastebin.com/nq56TiCu	19:05
javispedro	kerio: atm I'm just trying to reproduce	19:05
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chrissbx	I guess the kernel being 2 years old on a fresh install of the latest firmware, and no upgrades available, means that Nokia doesn't take security serious (at all)?	19:06
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: unfortunately you're not reaching the magic number of 8	19:06
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, libqtm-dev	19:06
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Noobmonk3y	?	19:06
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Noobmonk3y	if i build a package with it, will i be able to package it and put it in maemo.org?	19:06
Noobmonk3y	lol	19:06
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: why is that a magic number?	19:06
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I do not know :(	19:07
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, yeah, libqtm* is in devel	19:07
DocScrutinizer	meh	19:07
MohammadAG	or SSU repos, not sure	19:07
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: why do you say is that a magic number?	19:07
Noobmonk3y	hmmmmmm	19:07
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.pastebin.com/6r9jLgbv	19:07
Noobmonk3y	ok.... when i try to code, qt creator isnt recognising lines like#include <QSystemInfo>	19:07
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: because for some reason it cannot read logical partitions after #8 (inclusive)	19:07
javispedro	if you have an empty card and want to waste a bit of time ( ;) ), I suggest you try to reproduce it.	19:08
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javispedro	(cause personally I'm going to workaround it by... having less than 8 partitions :) )	19:10
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: neither of both. I suggest you check maemo's diskdriver. Nr of allowable partitionsl may be limited	19:10
javispedro	good point. I thought all drivers used same code for reading partition table layout?	19:11
DocScrutinizer	lol	19:11
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DocScrutinizer	there's to be some kernel space table to hold per device partition info. It has a limited arbitrary size if it's not a linked list	19:12
javispedro	aaaah	19:12
DocScrutinizer	just like process table	19:12
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DocScrutinizer	probably grep in config	19:13
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DocScrutinizer	to find the option to dimension it	19:13
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* javispedro bangs head agains desk		19:15
DocScrutinizer	process table of maemo is limited to 1000 it seems to me. No idea about size of partition table, maybe 8 ? :-D	19:15
javispedro	http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/source/kernel/drivers/mmc/card/block.c#45	19:15
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DocScrutinizer	:-P	19:15
javispedro	evil.	19:16
javispedro	also, you were completely right =)	19:16
yacc	Any idea what could make my N900 claim that it cannot play mp3 in mediaplayer (extras-devel enabled, and the phone app does not play nor record sound either).	19:16
PaulFertser	javispedro: i'll find the limitation soon	19:17
kthomas_vh_	way to get current gateway address? ifconfig?	19:17
valdyn	kthomas_vh_: sure	19:17
javispedro	PaulFertser: seems it has to do with minor number allocation. seen the comment and the two constants below it?	19:17
alterego	kthomas_vh_: route -n	19:17
kthomas_vh_	valdyn, optin ...	19:17
kthomas_vh_	alterego, tks	19:17
PaulFertser	javispedro: that's exactly what i think, that there're only 8 minors allocated. I'll check where it comes from.	19:17
javispedro	PaulFertser: current driver seems to do static allocation, dividing total available space / 8 (thus 8 minors per card max)	19:18
javispedro	yep	19:18
kthomas_vh_	though that may assume that the correct gateway is set via route, ...	19:18
* kthomas_vh_ checks that		19:18
valdyn	kthomas_vh_: sorry, what i said was nonsense	19:18
valdyn	kthomas_vh_: you can set it via route, you cant set it via ifconfig, you can also set it via the ip command etc	19:19
javispedro	PaulFertser: DocScrutinizer: fortunately, it's nice to know that such mmc subsystem limitation won't affect usbhost mass storage partition numbering :)	19:19
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DocScrutinizer	kthomas_vh_: so what else is "current gateway" then, if not what's set in route? :-D	19:19
kthomas_vh_	valdyn, it will show	19:19
kthomas_vh_	DocScrutinizer, well,	19:19
yacc	any idea what could make a n900 so completely mute?	19:19
kthomas_vh_	assume assigned by DHCP	19:19
yacc	Don't fancy reflashing the thing.	19:20
kthomas_vh_	but not set in route	19:20
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DocScrutinizer	then it's not gateway	19:20
DocScrutinizer	but just another NIC	19:20
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kthomas_vh_	easy for you to say	19:20
kthomas_vh_	the question is thus how to determine the correct gateway to use	19:20
darkschneider	mm it is still needed to install the power user kernel to have mobilehotspot work? cause it's not in the deps anymore, it instead lists the "normal" kernel and modules	19:20
kthomas_vh_	in such a situation, so I can set it via route :)	19:21
DocScrutinizer	that's a slightly different question :-)	19:21
* javispedro goes rebuild his mbr again.		19:21
valdyn	kthomas_vh_: routing can be done funny ways, that means you dont necessarily have a gateway at all	19:21
kthomas_vh_	it means I have a usb stick from Clear plugged into my 900, and am trying to figure out the next issue :P	19:22
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PaulFertser	javispedro: there's a bug in the driver i believe.	19:22
PaulFertser	javispedro: it was reworked since then upstream.	19:22
javispedro	ah	19:22
valdyn	kthomas_vh_: what kind of usb stick?	19:22
javispedro	"unfortunate design decision", I'd say.	19:22
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kthomas_vh_	it's their wimax, I think its working	19:23
PaulFertser	javispedro: no, i'd say that's a bug. They were going to use 32 minors.	19:23
kthomas_vh_	at least, I have a wimax0 interface	19:23
valdyn	neat	19:23
kthomas_vh_	and I have an IP	19:23
DocScrutinizer	PaulFertser: surprise surprise :-P	19:23
javispedro	PaulFertser: comment in code says 8?	19:23
javispedro	http://lxr.linux.no/linux+*/drivers/mmc/card/block.c#L48	19:23
kthomas_vh_	whether it can communicate, who knows :)	19:23
valdyn	kthomas_vh_: as i said, you dont necessarily get a gateway	19:23
valdyn	kthomas_vh_: look at the netmask	19:23
kthomas_vh_	yes (on both)	19:24
PaulFertser	javispedro: hm, probably i'm wrong though.	19:24
kthomas_vh_	it's defined in config files as far as I can tell (gateway acquisition under wimax)	19:24
PaulFertser	javispedro: comment in the code says 8 but MMC_NUM_MINORS evaluates to 32, but then alloc_disk uses 1<3 again.	19:24
kthomas_vh_	probably now would be a good time to contact tech support and ask for the correct gateway IP :)	19:25
javispedro	hum, touche. weirdo.	19:25
valdyn	kthomas_vh_: just set the netmask to 0.0.0.0 and see if that works?	19:25
javispedro	either way I'd make it 32 partitions x 8 cards.	19:25
kthomas_vh_	heh	19:25
javispedro	Sounds more reasonable than 8 partitions x 32 cards =)	19:25
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	19:26
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DocScrutinizer	in times of 32GB uSD XP	19:26
yacc	What could make the mediaplayer claim that it cannot play mp3 files?	19:26
DocScrutinizer	installed codecs messed	19:27
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valdyn	yacc: does restarting fix the issue?	19:27
DocScrutinizer	or DSP locked up?	19:27
DocScrutinizer	see valdyn ^^^	19:28
javispedro	oh, thank god I pastebinned the original mbr =)	19:29
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PaulFertser	javispedro: i think i understand it now: the minors are common for all devices, so in the old scheme only 3 bits out of 32 were used for partitions, other 5 bits for disks. Now it's configurable.	19:29
chrissbx	Anyone running Debian on the n800?	19:29
PaulFertser	javispedro: i think this commit (to configure the amount) can be cherry-picked or one can just change 3 to 4 and release a new kernel rev.	19:29
yacc	valdyn, nope, and the phone app is mute (neither playback nor recording) too.	19:29
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javispedro	PaulFertser: makes sense	19:30
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PaulFertser	(3 bits out of 8 of course)	19:30
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sjk	hey guys. If I want to install zsh, should I just go ahead and add some debian or ubuntu repository and then apt-get?	19:31
javispedro	either way seems quite a wasteful allocation scheme	19:31
javispedro	but easy to implement :)	19:31
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chrissbx	sjk: I'm a newbie but I'm pretty sure you can't install Debian debs on Maemo.	19:31
yacc	Any idea where I could see some form of logs? Seems like some dbus services are not there? (something like .xsession-error on a normal box), ...	19:31
PaulFertser	javispedro: indeed.	19:31
sjk	Ahh	19:32
sjk	Hmmm	19:32
chrissbx	sjk: go to maemo.org, there's a list of packages you can install from the browser.	19:32
chrissbx	not sure about zsh. Someone just told me there's bash, though.	19:33
RST38h	Ah,there is a fresh Fringe episode	19:33
chrissbx	But I would really like to run plain Debian, not in a chroot but directly on the metal.	19:33
DocScrutinizer	PaulFertser: javispedro: any better idea (alloc scheme)?	19:33
chrissbx	"plain" as in, smallest set of modifications needed to make it work usably.	19:34
DocScrutinizer	PaulFertser: javispedro: AIUI we got 8bit major, 8bit minor	19:34
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: my question would be "why this does not work the way pata/sata disks work" (aka via scsi subsystem)	19:35
PaulFertser	DocScrutinizer: no, that's up to the wise guys to allocate major/minors sanely.	19:35
DocScrutinizer	PaulFertser: javispedro: if we're going to code several cards and their partitions into 8bit minor, we're limited to any sheme like that	19:35
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javispedro	also you get all those nice SCSI-reserved majors =)	19:35
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javispedro	cat /proc/devices \| grep -c sd : 16 :)	19:36
javispedro	oh, useless use of cat. /me loses karma points.	19:36
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sjk	chrissbx, there is a zsh tgz on talk.maemo.org with "No patches installed. Just plain zsh-4.3.10 from their ftp with configure flags from archlinux and --prefix in /opt."	19:36
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yacc	Ultimate weirdness. Deinstalling pidgin returned the sound, ...	19:37
yacc	Hmmm.	19:37
DocScrutinizer	I'd vote for a 16/16	19:37
javispedro	yacc: wild guess: pidgin daemon grabbing alsa device exclusively	19:37
yacc	Could it be that pidgin somehow claimed the hardware audio device or something like that?	19:37
javispedro	:)	19:37
sjk	wish suggests one should be able to run regular debs? (But I am not sure)	19:37
yacc	javispedro, well, it has worked for weeks, and now it stopped :)	19:37
PaulFertser	javispedro: for scsi devices it's 4 bits, the limit for partitions is 15 anyway.	19:38
MohammadAG	I'm losing audio too for some reason	19:38
yacc	javispedro, I can see how extras-devel is not necessarily something for "normal users" ;)	19:38
MohammadAG	missed 3 calls the other day cause of it	19:38
PaulFertser	javispedro: at least that's what's written for the 2.6.28 kernel.	19:38
chrissbx	sjk: wish? You can have Debian in a chroot, see "easy debian" or some such.	19:38
javispedro	PaulFertser: ah, didn't know.	19:39
sjk	chrissbx, which*... sorry, I get all messed up ircing from the mobile	19:39
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chrissbx	sjk: you could also try to install on maemo, but I guess it will at least want to slurp most of the Debian base packages, which will run into conflicts with files from maemo packages I guess.	19:40
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yacc	javispedro, I wonder if there is some place where I can see logfiles? Would make understanding such a malfunction much easier if some process would have complained "dieing because cannot get the sound device", ...	19:40
chrissbx	sjk: that's just an idea, and a bad one, don't do it if you care about not breaking stuff!	19:40
sjk	chrissbx, nod	19:40
javispedro	yacc: you need to install sysklogd and monitor /var/log/syslog	19:41
javispedro	yacc: there should be instructions for that on wiki, search syslog	19:41
yacc	syslog did not show anything, ...	19:41
PaulFertser	DocScrutinizer: for usb subsystem they implemented some sort of dynamic minors allocation.	19:41
javispedro	yacc: nothing at all? syslog on a normal system has a shitload of noise.	19:41
DocScrutinizer	PaulFertser: sounds way smarter	19:42
yacc	javispedro, anyway, currently pidgin in extras-devel is broken, libpurple is incompatible with pidgin, claiming both the same file for themselves :)	19:42
javispedro	yacc: don't ask me, I'm no matainer of that :)	19:42
yacc	javispedro, no, nothing as in nothing that was easily recognizable as an error message.	19:42
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DocScrutinizer	yacc: odds are the process silently ignores a failing audio_open()	19:44
DocScrutinizer	yacc: even worse, it might succeed and then block	19:44
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DocScrutinizer	yacc: nvm, forgot your initial issue	19:47
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yacc	DocScrutinizer: mute phone app, and mute mediaplayer claiming that it cannot play "that media format", that being in this case mp3.	19:48
javispedro	has pulseaudio crashed maybe?	19:49
DocScrutinizer	yep	19:49
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DocScrutinizer	or pidgin using some "weird" way to output sound. Like in, a frequent "where's /dev/dsp" to be found here in this chan... :-S	19:50
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yacc	DocScrutinizer: No idea, now it's back to working, even after I've reinstalled pidgin manually (it needed a --force on dpkg)	19:51
* DocScrutinizer loves the 5198 ways to mess up sound available on a recent system with PA shit		19:51
yacc	DocScrutinizer: Ah, you haven't even yet tried to make to different users to access one PA server, ...	19:51
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yacc	DocScrutinizer: In theory cool thing. In practice on an ubuntu box it took me weeks before the pain was big enough that I fixed it correctly, ...	19:52
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yacc	DocScrutinizer: Fascinating pidgin is running and I've got still sound, ...	19:53
javispedro	yacc: distros do not want you do that, they want one user owning audio device	19:53
DocScrutinizer	you bet I didn't. Usually deinstalling PA and fixing ALSA proper is first thing to do for audio on a box	19:53
MohammadAG	yacc, it's not pigeon	19:53
* javispedro hates ALSA with passion since reading just a single page of their client libraries documentation :)		19:53
MohammadAG	I hope it's not a bug in PR1.3, since again, it's happened to me twice already	19:53
javispedro	the PA one is a mess, but their "simple" one is ... simple.	19:53
DocScrutinizer	evidently, see yacc :-P	19:54
javispedro	ALSA "simple" API is so fugly that even their own devs say "no one uses it correctly" (mixer api for ex.)	19:54
yacc	javispedro, yeah, but I'm a little bit stubborn, I don't see why a distribution should change my way of doing things, especially if I've been running two X servers to split private from work for almost a decade now.	19:54
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: at the end of the story, I'm going to side with RST38h and demand my /dev/dsp back. With hardware mixing if possible.	19:55
DocScrutinizer	fair enough	19:55
javispedro	yacc: the eternal debate.	19:55
javispedro	yacc: get gentoo.	19:56
yacc	javispedro, well, not 100% sure, "something" is clearly needed, one of the most irritating things is installing a new desktop environment and trying to figure out what program/function caused to play sound just now, ...	19:56
yacc	javispedro, gentoo is not really to my taste ;)	19:56
yacc	javispedro, I see no point in compiling everything myself, ...	19:56
javispedro	yacc: I recently switched to gentoo not for being a source-based distribution, but because you get packages the nearest to upstream as possible.	19:56
javispedro	specially with certain use flags :)	19:57
yacc	javispedro, how so?	19:57
javispedro	yacc: "how so"?	19:58
yacc	use flags and nearest to upstream?	19:58
javispedro	eg -bindist and/or branding	19:58
javispedro	no ugly icons, but gnome default ones.	19:59
javispedro	btw, what charset do we use in this channel? Seems logs use UTF-8, so I guess that's it.	20:01
Noobmonk3y	javispedro: is it you that i need to pat on the back for preenv? :)	20:03
javispedro	Noobmonk3y: I guess...	20:03
Noobmonk3y	hehe, congrats - very impressed!	20:04
Noobmonk3y	pretty sure that app has single handly helped fix one of the maemo holes - games! :) (Well of that quality!)	20:04
javispedro	heh :)	20:04
javispedro	still, not impressed at the quality of the average game.	20:05
javispedro	save for x-plane. I love it. Then again I'm kinda a flight sim fan..	20:05
Noobmonk3y	meh, tis relatively new and works well ;) - i'll allow a few bugs lol!	20:05
Noobmonk3y	ooo not bought that 1 yet	20:05
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Noobmonk3y	i love settlers, not great with no double touch screen thingy, but overall good fun	20:06
javispedro	never tried	20:06
Noobmonk3y	:P	20:07
chrissbx	The capcha on http://talk.maemo.org/register.php is broken. So I cannot register.	20:07
chrissbx	captcha	20:08
* lcuk clicked the hamster and it appeared to take to next step		20:08
lcuk	whats not working for you?	20:08
lcuk	or are you not human?	20:08
chrissbx	Hum, for me no pictures appear.	20:08
javispedro	a hamster? :)	20:08
chrissbx	Oh, privoxy maybe.	20:08
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* lcuk fills cheeks		20:09
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* Noobmonk3y looks at the hamster.....		20:10
Noobmonk3y	bloody hamsters	20:10
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* Noobmonk3y doesnt understand qt mobility		20:12
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alterego	Noobmonk3y: anything in particulary?	20:18
Noobmonk3y	alterego: erm, using it lol	20:18
alterego	I've had quite a bit of experience with the API's.	20:18
alterego	:)	20:18
Noobmonk3y	finally got the right qt creator :)	20:18
alterego	Heh	20:18
Noobmonk3y	so i'm now actually compiling in qt4.7	20:18
Noobmonk3y	yay! only taken a day lol	20:18
Noobmonk3y	so now i was gonna try something simple with qt mobility, but it doesnt seem to like me	20:19
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chrissbx	What kernel are you running, the one from 2008?	20:19
Noobmonk3y	for example, if i add #include <QSystemInfo>	20:19
Noobmonk3y	it says file/folder not found in qt before i even compile	20:19
Noobmonk3y	(yellow squiggly line)	20:19
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, I think you need to edit the .pro file	20:20
MohammadAG	CONFIG += mobility or something	20:20
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Noobmonk3y	QT += core gui maemo5 network	20:20
Noobmonk3y	CONFIG += mobility	20:20
Noobmonk3y	MOBILITY = systeminfo	20:20
Noobmonk3y	thats my current one :)	20:20
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Noobmonk3y	(and i'm trying to use the systeminfo one lol)	20:21
alterego	Looks fine	20:21
alterego	You need to have QTM_USE_NAMESPACE	20:21
Noobmonk3y	was using this http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0/quickstart.html	20:21
alterego	in your source file to use the mobility namespace.	20:21
alterego	Ah right.	20:21
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Noobmonk3y	it's in there	20:22
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Noobmonk3y	makes me think something else isnt set up correctly	20:23
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alterego	Well, what is your error	20:23
Noobmonk3y	well, i'm stuck at the squigly yellow lines	20:24
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Noobmonk3y	#include <QSystemInfo> = no such file or directory	20:24
Noobmonk3y	and wherever i put QTM_USE_NAMESPACE i get an error	20:25
alterego	Hrm, pastie.org your .pro file for me :)	20:25
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Noobmonk3y	http://pastebin.com/gAMNSMhj	20:26
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Noobmonk3y	can't see anything majorly wrong with it :\|	20:28
Noobmonk3y	i'm assuming once it is in there, qt recognises it throughout the rest of the code, therefore no quiggly lines?	20:29
alterego	Yeah	20:29
alterego	Should do	20:29
alterego	Using madde?	20:29
Noobmonk3y	erm, using whatever qt creator uses	20:29
Noobmonk3y	lol	20:29
Noobmonk3y	have madde on my device	20:29
alterego	Wait, bottom left of Qt creator, have you set maemo as the target?	20:29
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Noobmonk3y	its going straight to the device	20:30
Noobmonk3y	runs normally fine	20:30
Noobmonk3y	only errors when i add the mobility stuff	20:30
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maher	i have an n900 - it doesn't update its time (i.e. from daylight savings or from changing time zone) unless i turn it off and then back on - is there a better way of doing this?	20:31
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alterego	bbiab	20:31
Noobmonk3y	okies	20:31
DocScrutinizer	maher: go into flight mode and back. Do a phonecall. Install ntpd	20:32
DocScrutinizer	N900 'automatic' time is merely based on GSM date/time msgs, which depending on your carrier, may come or may not come or regular basis, on traffic like registration/call, or never	20:33
maher	DocScrutinizer: is there a bug filed on this? if i set an alarm the day before daylight savings it would be nice if it went off at the right time...	20:34
nidO	"automatic" time has nothing to do with the device automatically updating timezone based on the date though, DocScrutinizer	20:34
DocScrutinizer	duh, what?	20:34
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nidO	"update automatically" is the option to use GSM time transmissions (and doesnt work properly anyway), the device should (and at least in my case does) switch between daylight savings and not depending on the date regardless of whether update automatically is ticked	20:35
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DocScrutinizer	DST switching should be handled on-system, without being reliant on GSM. Timezone setting is yet another topic	20:35
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maher	i'm confused - in Settings -> Date and time it says my time zone is GMT-5 - but it seems to know about daylight savings time - I would really like my timezone to be US EST (with the daylight savings adjustments)	20:37
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DocScrutinizer	maher: if "auto" works for you, then fine. If not you'll disable it, and might want to install ntpd instead	20:38
maher	nidO: so your device automatically changes for daylight savings? how do you get it to do that?	20:38
DocScrutinizer	though ntpd isn't recommended by me for devices with internittent connectivity	20:39
nidO	well, it just did it itself a week ago	20:39
nidO	and testing it now, it does the same	20:39
nidO	if i switch the date back a month, it immediately shows itself as BST (GMT+1)	20:39
nidO	then correct the date, and it shows GMT.	20:39
maher	ok - when i change the location it wants to reboot the device	20:40
DocScrutinizer	ok - when I change the location, then I'm gone for dinner o/	20:40
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maher	nidO: how do you change the date?	20:42
nidO	by clicking the date then entering a new one. if its greyed out for you, untick "update automatically"	20:42
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maher	nidO: ok - if i put the date back to yesterday it doesn't change the clock by an hour	20:44
dRbiG	does anyone here have infocmp (from proper ncurses-bin) built for maemo5?	20:44
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dRbiG	i just need this one exe so compiling whole ncurses in the scratchbox seems a bit of an overkill	20:45
javispedro	lol	20:46
javispedro	WebOS 2 already ships Qt	20:46
javispedro	and even some system apps link with it...	20:46
javispedro	what are you up to, Jaaksi? =)	20:46
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Jaffa	javispedro: WebOS based on MeeGo, at some point, p'raps	20:50
javispedro	who knows...	20:51
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trumee	crap my facebrick crapped out. Facebook no longer authorizes it. Comes back with an error.	21:08
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trumee	anybody knows where does facebrick store its settings. I might try to salvage something from my backup.	21:08
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gpgp	isnt DST location based ? do you have a location in use ?	21:10
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PaulFertser	Come on, for proper DST handling just set proper timezone, exactly like it should be done on any unix-like system...	21:28
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* thresh waves		21:29
thresh	~pr1.3	21:29
infobot	somebody said pr1.3 was the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update	21:29
thresh	kthx	21:29
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Aranel	We're working on a theme but; make: maemo-optify: Command not found when building the pkg. What's wrong?	21:30
Jaffa	Aranel: Building it where/	21:30
Aranel	Jaffa: scratchbox	21:31
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Jaffa	Aranel: I'd guess your rootstrap is really old, and doesn't include the maemo-optify addition	21:31
Jaffa	Aranel: You should just be able to `apt-get install maemo-optify' as a workaround	21:32
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Aranel	Jaffa: E: Couldn't find package maemo-optify	21:33
Aranel	Jaffa: how can I update it to newest? Do I have to start over?	21:34
chrissbx	Is "armel" the matching Debian architecture for the n8x0?	21:35
chrissbx	Just double checking, forgot which endianess is which.	21:35
Jaffa	Aranel: More info around http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/re-maemo-optify-autobuilder--opt-022/. If you're getting 'not found' it sounds like you've not got the right repos installed.	21:36
Jaffa	Aranel: Not got time to help, though, I'm afraid.	21:37
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Aranel	Jaffa: thanks anyway. :)	21:37
thresh	duh I hate when nokia doesnt allow me to wget the binary image	21:37
Aranel	Jaffa: If I upload it straight to extras-devel and If it kills somebody or starts a war, am I responsible about it?	21:38
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javispedro	Aranel: you can use the autobuilder optifier	21:38
javispedro	just echo auto > debian/optify	21:38
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chrissbx	Aranel: imagine it leads to a butterfly flapping its wings!	21:39
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Aranel	javispedro: ok now I'm doing it :) can you share your /etc/apt/sources.list with me? It seems like some entries are missing on mine.	21:43
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Aranel	chrissbx: lol xD	21:44
javispedro	Aranel: http://repository.maemo.org/	21:46
javispedro	Aranel: read "Repositories for Maemo SDKs". Also enable extras-devel.	21:46
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Jef91	So as of PR1.3 my bluetooth headset no longer works with phone calls on my n900.... Any suggestions on why this may be?	21:47
alterego	Have you paired it again?	21:48
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Jef91	Yep.	21:48
Jef91	It works for music	21:48
Jef91	and my GPS	21:48
nox-	moin	21:48
Jef91	but doesn't work at all for phone calls	21:48
alterego	Weird.	21:48
kerio	>not a phone	21:48
alterego	Well, no idea, never used BT headset	21:48
MohammadAG	stock pulseaudio?	21:49
thresh	have you tried turning it off and on again?	21:49
DocScrutinizer51	delete, then pair new	21:49
Jef91	Stock pulse audio	21:49
Jef91	Don't think I've done that yet doc let me try it	21:49
DocScrutinizer51	call is SDP, everything else A2DP	21:49
ds3	eh?	21:50
DocScrutinizer51	SCP*	21:50
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ds3	eh?	21:50
ds3	HSP/HFP both using SCO audio if that's the alpha soup you are looking for :D	21:50
PaulFertser	ds3: bi-directional exchange with a BT headset is done in a very different way.	21:50
alterego	Hrm, I'd quite like to get my laptop to act as a bluetooth headset for my N900	21:51
alterego	That'd be cool.	21:51
PaulFertser	ds3: and the guy says it works for music for him (A2DP).	21:51
Jef91	removing the pair and re-adding it did not work Docscrutinizer51 :-/	21:51
DocScrutinizer51	SCO, sorry	21:51
ds3	yes, and I think the audio is physically routed differently	21:51
Jef91	What is ever more f***ed up, is that when I get a phone call the headset rings still - but when I press answer it goes dead	21:52
ds3	did something screw with a McBSP?	21:52
Jef91	McBSP?	21:52
ds3	the synchronous serial port on the OMAP that handles the audio	21:52
Jef91	Not that I am aware of	21:53
Jef91	how would I check that?	21:53
ds3	Jef91: are you using a stock kernel?	21:53
javispedro	alterego: I was surprised that Win7 seems to come with that feature	21:54
Jef91	2.6.28.10power40 ds3	21:54
javispedro	alterego: (it might be oem crap actually, don't remember)	21:54
Jef91	Not if that is stock or of something I installed added that	21:54
alterego	Heh, cool	21:54
ds3	Jef91: that's the poweruser kernel from the look of it	21:54
alterego	Can't find anything on the net about doing it under Linux :/	21:54
ds3	wonder if your problem happens with the stock nokia kernel	21:54
Jef91	Any idea how I revert it?	21:55
ds3	donno, the last time I tried it, I had to reflash :(	21:55
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Jef91	I don't see why the kernel would kill just audio from the calls though	21:56
alterego	I don't either, but we can't support you if you're using dodgy builds :P	21:58
Jef91	pff	21:58
Jef91	Yea yea.	21:58
Jef91	I'll just deal with it I guess, or maybe flash back to PR1.2	21:58
Jef91	didn't notice anything new in 1.3	21:58
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ds3	shrug	21:59
ds3	now if I can only find a low profile microUSB connector	21:59
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MohammadAG	Jef91, or go back to stock kernel	22:03
Jef91	MohammadAG how?	22:04
MohammadAG	Jef91, there's an icon in the app menu	22:04
chrissbx	When using mount -o loop img /mnt/somewhere, it says it "failed"; now I realize there is no "losetup" binary. But /dev/loop* exist.	22:05
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chrissbx	Does maemo just not support loop mounts?	22:05
chrissbx	Well, /bin/mount is a symlink to busybox, so it seems likely just the userspace not supporting it;	22:06
chrissbx	but, how would you solve that?	22:06
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javispedro	what does easydebian do here?	22:08
MohammadAG	chrissbx, loop mounts work, load the needed file system module	22:08
MohammadAG	if img is an iso, you need isofs.ko	22:08
MohammadAG	etc	22:08
chrissbx	It's ext2	22:08
javispedro	maybe force -t ext3 ?	22:09
chrissbx	"cannot parse modules.dep", wow	22:09
chrissbx	modprobe -l silently returns nothing.	22:10
chrissbx	depmod isn't there.	22:10
chrissbx	Hell I wish I'd just have plain Debian here.	22:10
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javispedro	so, install easydebian.	22:10
chrissbx	No, full Debian, not a chroot.	22:10
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javispedro	what's the difference?	22:10
alterego	chrissbx: works for me.	22:10
alterego	chrissbx: mount -o loop -t ext2 tmp.bin /mnt	22:11
chrissbx	That depmod would be there, loop mounts would just work...	22:11
thresh	and again, after restoring a backup, appmanager doesnt do a shit	22:11
chrissbx	javispedro: also, that the kernel wouldn't be 2 years old..	22:11
thresh	wth	22:11
alterego	They do, but you sometimes have to explicitly state the filesystem.	22:11
alterego	chrissbx: hahah, what debian are you talking about?	22:11
chrissbx	alterego: stable or testing, whatever you prefer	22:12
javispedro	chrissbx: depmod would be here, loop mounts would also work in a debian chroot.	22:12
alterego	Seriously though, I just created a 4Mb file with dd, made an ext2 filesystem on it and mounted, all on the N900	22:12
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javispedro	chrissbx: in fact, one of the suggestions is that if you're missing any debian tool in messybox, just chroot into debian and run it. even losetup; its actions would appear Outside the chroot also.	22:12
chrissbx	alterego: because stable has been released 2009-02-14, which is several months after the last kernel from Nokia.	22:12
chrissbx	alterego: and Debian fixes security holes in their stable kernels, too !	22:13
javispedro	btw, cya.	22:13
thresh	oh yeah, it was doing stuff	22:13
thresh	but not telling me nor opening any window	22:13
thresh	:/	22:13
javispedro	chrissbx: and nokia; this kernel is not 2.6.28 but 2.6.28.something	22:13
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chrissbx	The irony is, that the exact thing I want to do is run a Debian chroot.	22:13
alterego	2.6.28-hostmode2 for me ...	22:13
chrissbx	It's on that "mnt" loop file.	22:14
alterego	chrissbx: it works	22:14
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alterego	chrissbx: what command are you using to mount your loop?	22:14
alterego	Because if it doesn't work for you, you're doing something wrong.	22:14
chrissbx	cd /mnt; mount -t ext2 -o loop,noatime /media/mmc2/DEBIAN/img debian	22:14
chrissbx	What's your command? And your filesystem type?	22:15
alterego	mount -o loop -t ext2 tmp.bin /mnt	22:15
alterego	Where did you get 'img' from?	22:16
MohammadAG	(there's stock ext2/3 support btw)	22:16
alterego	Yeah, exactly.	22:16
jacekowski	first	22:16
chrissbx	I created it from my laptop.	22:16
jacekowski	where you managed to get that error message	22:16
alterego	So it makes me think, his image isn't actually what he thinks it is ^.^	22:16
jacekowski	ehh	22:16
jacekowski	wrong	22:16
jacekowski	what error message do you get?	22:16
jacekowski	just failed?	22:17
jacekowski	what does dmesg say?	22:17
chrissbx	It says "mount: mounting /dev/loop0 on /mnt/debian failed"	22:17
MohammadAG	also, if depmod is missing then... depmod -a?	22:17
chrissbx	Nothing related in dmesg	22:17
chrissbx	No depmod command.	22:17
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jacekowski	cat /proc/fileststems \| freo ext	22:18
MohammadAG	chrissbx, as root	22:18
jacekowski	cat /proc/filesystems \| freo ext	22:18
jacekowski	cat /proc/filesystems \| grep* ext	22:18
oshin	that make me man freo	22:18
chrissbx	nothing, no ext2 in that proc file	22:18
MohammadAG	chrissbx, fyi, depmod works for me	22:18
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sjk	Hm, I can't seem to rename files in ~/MyDocs/DCIM. Anyone know why that is?	22:18
MohammadAG	it's not in user's $PATH though, /sbin/depmod	22:19
MohammadAG	or do it as root	22:19
chrissbx	MohammadAG: there's no /sbin/depmod on my device.	22:19
alterego	chrissbx: what kernel are you using?	22:19
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chrissbx	Linux Nokia-N800-43-7 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Tue Oct 14 11:25:25 EEST 2008 armv6l unknown	22:20
jacekowski	hmm	22:20
jacekowski	n800	22:20
alterego	chrissbx: use modprobe ..	22:21
thresh	very few people are still alive who used those	22:21
chrissbx	This is a practically fresh install with flasher-3.5 -F maemo/RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R	22:21
chrissbx	alterego: as I said, modprobe doesn't work, as it seems because the module index is broken, and there's no depmod to fix it.	22:22
alterego	I can't really comment though, I am using a custom kernel at the moment.	22:22
MohammadAG	oh, n800	22:22
chrissbx	alterego: how do you do that?	22:22
MohammadAG	you could've said that before...	22:22
alterego	:D	22:22
chrissbx	alterego: because I really really want to run Debian directly on it	22:22
alterego	I wouldn't.	22:23
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alterego	You'd lose the ability to do, well, a lot of stuff.	22:23
alterego	Use the debian chroot ..	22:23
alterego	Or do what I do, buy a debian server and ssh to it :P	22:23
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chrissbx	alterego: if you can run a custom kernel, and still have the features you want, then why wouldn't I have those features with Debian other than missing userspace?	22:24
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chrissbx	I can copy over the binaries it really need if necessary; but also, I don't mind loosing functionality,	22:24
alterego	Because, like you said, our kernel is old.	22:25
chrissbx	I want to use this just for a couple purposes, but I do care whether it is really secure.	22:25
alterego	otoh, you could port the meego kernel and do your own debian build around it I suppose.	22:25
alterego	The meego kernel is much more up-to-date.	22:25
chrissbx	alterego: what, you run a custom kernel that's old, or what do you mean now?	22:25
chrissbx	Which kernel are you running?	22:26
alterego	All the N900 maemo custom kernels are based on the same kernel version.	22:26
alterego	2.6.28	22:26
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chrissbx	Which customizations?	22:26
chrissbx	Yourself, or?	22:26
chrissbx	Built from sources? Which patches?..	22:26
alterego	Well, the one I'm running at the moment has a mod for getting the N900 into USB host mode.	22:26
alterego	Built from the maemo kernel source package.	22:26
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chx	How can you decide whether a cable advertised as N900 charger cable will charge indeed ? I have a power strip with a USB charging port and the N900 does not charge from there. It charges from the charger of the nook.	22:28
alterego	I can honestly say I have no idea what you just said :P	22:29
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* alterego wanders off to do some more coding.		22:29
jacekowski	chx: n900 uses standard usb charger	22:29
jacekowski	chx: where d+ and d- lines are shorted	22:29
chx	yeah i read that.	22:29
jacekowski	chx: so as long as that's the case + you have 5V on supply lines it will charge	22:29
chx	Yeah. I presume this port does not feature such a shorting. Is there a cable that lends a hand?	22:30
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jacekowski	i don't think so	22:30
jacekowski	just open that power strip	22:30
jacekowski	and fix a problem	22:30
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chx	i no longer have soldering equipment nor the willingness to use it :(	22:31
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chx	for example, http://www.boxwave.com/products/ipodchargingadapter/ipod-charging-adapter-apple-ipod-classic-120gb_3298.htm#features wouldnt this do the trick? I can't find squat what it actually does	22:38
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chx	What happens if you connect a CA-100 and a CA-146C together?	22:49
chx	I bet that will trigger charging.	22:50
chx	can be had from DX for $5.60	22:50
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gpgp	Could someone please help me. I have a n810 flashed yesterday with ver 5.2008.43-7. Is this the most current for this device ? i cannot extend memory to the card. I cannot load maps because it says there is no card. under memory i see the internal and external cards, neither is set read only.	22:53
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timeless_xchat	oh no, i'm in HEL	23:12
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T_X	hi there, is the source code for the flasher available somewhere?	23:13
T_X	I only found the binaries on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	23:13
PaulFertser	T_X: no, nokia decided you do not need that.	23:13
T_X	?	23:13
PaulFertser	T_X: but there's 0xFFFF that allows flashing n900.	23:13
PaulFertser	T_X: nokia is evil too, aren't you surprised?	23:13
PaulFertser	But some nice folks reversed the protocol and released 0xFFFF.	23:14
javispedro	gpgp: it's the latest. are you sure you can write to the cards?	23:14
T_X	sorry, not that familiar with gpl so far.. do they only have to provide the toolchain + flashing utilitiy or also the source code of those?	23:14
T_X	thanks PaulFertser, I'll have a look for the 0xFFFF	23:14
PaulFertser	T_X: they have no obligations to provide the source for the flashing utility as far as i know.	23:15
b-man`	PaulFertser: they got it flashing on the N900 now? i thought 0xFFFF could only read nand information	23:15
T_X	the thing is, need to reflash the device but I won't install or run any binary shit on my laptop	23:15
PaulFertser	T_X: http://hg.youterm.com/0xFFFF	23:15
PaulFertser	b-man`: they got it flashing long time ago.	23:15
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PaulFertser	b-man`: that's the only tool i used for flashing n900 actually, never tried to contaminate my laptop with that ``flasher'' shit.	23:16
b-man`	ah	23:16
T_X	I'm also quite disappointed of the sandbox sdk stuff. when I tried it first it did not work either. guess the scripts or something is having trouble with my debian	23:17
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T_X	which is using a 64bit kernel, but 32bit userspace tools	23:17
javispedro	scratchbox.	23:17
T_X	eh scratchbox, sorry :)	23:17
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PaulFertser	T_X: probably you'll be more willing to join SHR (an OE-based distro) or Meego.	23:20
gpgp	javispedro: none of them are checked read only but it seems that there are old map folders on the internal card which are read only	23:20
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timeless_xchat	if you don't want to run sourceless binaries, then the n900 isn't for you	23:24
* timeless_xchat can't name many platforms w/ open cell-mo's		23:25
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PaulFertser	T_X: btw, beware, sandbox can install proprietary crap too.	23:30
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PaulFertser	T_X: e.g. the tool that creates fiasco images iirc.	23:30
javispedro	scratchbox by itself is open	23:30
javispedro	as long as you don't enable nokia-binaries repo	23:30
javispedro	and enabling it is non-trivial (requires eula and all that)	23:30
PaulFertser	javispedro: how one can create a fiasco image then?	23:32
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javispedro	PaulFertser: you know the answer....	23:32
javispedro	not that I'd like to create a fiasco image for anything, btw.	23:32
PaulFertser	javispedro: sorry, i'm really a foreigner here, so i do not know it, honestly.	23:32
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timeless_xchat	fiasco images aren't required	23:33
javispedro	PaulFertser: well, if it's true that the tool that creates fisaco images is non-free, then, by signing the eula and getting propietary "crap".	23:33
timeless_xchat	flasher and friends accept pieces instead...	23:33
PaulFertser	javispedro: and tbh i do not care, maemo was always some loosy fork and its scratchbox is a weird way to manage development. I know OE, Debian, Gentoo. Scratchbox, meh, wth is that and who needs that?	23:33
javispedro	PaulFertser: I am a scratchbox fan, and not the only one.	23:34
timeless_xchat	paul: if you don't care, then why are you here?	23:34
javispedro	PaulFertser: it serves a need (easy cross-building by people who don't have a clue about autocrap)	23:34
javispedro	s/by/for/	23:34
infobot	javispedro meant: PaulFertser: it serves a need (easy cross-building for people who don't have a clue about autocrap)	23:34
PaulFertser	timeless_xchat: because of the promising device	23:34
PaulFertser	javispedro: have you tried other systems i mentioned?	23:35
javispedro	PaulFertser: all of them by now.	23:35
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javispedro	PaulFertser: OE requires changes to source; half of the Debian packages do not crossbuild cleanly, same for Gentoo (even with pandora overlay)	23:35
PaulFertser	javispedro: that's true.	23:35
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* timeless_xchat kicks here-and-now		23:36
timeless_xchat	it doesn't know where i am!	23:36
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PaulFertser	javispedro: i know quite some people who choosed OE for cross-development. Same about Debian and Gentoo. Who uses scratchbox other than maemo users? Even OpenSUSE build service used by Mer is so much better.	23:38
timeless_xchat	is here-and-now broken?	23:38
javispedro	PaulFertser: read the scratchbox ML recently? :)	23:38
timeless_xchat	paul: you're totally missing the point	23:38
PaulFertser	javispedro: sure no, i'm not a maemo fan. All i did is working on the hostmode.	23:39
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timeless_xchat	it isn't about people actively choosing good technology	23:39
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timeless_xchat	it's about people who don't understand the technology	23:39
PaulFertser	javispedro: and i noticed that nokia devs can't provide sane patches to the kernel, only some loosy changelog instead.	23:39
timeless_xchat	but who will need something	23:39
javispedro	PaulFertser: not scratchbox's fault =)	23:39
timeless_xchat	something that will just magically work	23:39
PaulFertser	javispedro: that's just part of my impression from "maemo"	23:40
timeless_xchat	without requiring them to learn irrelevant crap	23:40
timeless_xchat	paul: do yourself a favor	23:40
timeless_xchat	don't misattribute your gripes	23:40
timeless_xchat	it will not win you friends	23:40
PaulFertser	timeless_xchat: i'm not seeking friends at #maemo, sorry.	23:40
timeless_xchat	scratchbox has many faults	23:41
timeless_xchat	so does nokia's dev process	23:41
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arkenoi	anyone is willing to add zRTP support to gstreamer, OTR to telepathy and GPG to modest? I know some people who would like to provide some sponsorship for the project	23:42
PaulFertser	As far as i can tell the best and the most capable part of the maemo community moved on to Mer and then to MeeGo. I know they care and they didn't like scratchbox. I trust their opinions.	23:42
timeless_xchat	infobot, otr?	23:43
timeless_xchat	infobot, zrtp?	23:43
timeless_xchat	paul: i don't like scratchbox	23:43
timeless_xchat	but that doesn't mean i blame it for poor changelogs	23:43
timeless_xchat	or for lack of an open source flasher	23:43
PaulFertser	Of-the-Record, the way to give both encryption and deniability to the IM conversations.	23:43
javispedro	PaulFertser: key issues with it is that it's a nightmare to maintain. but note that the way they use obs is similar to the way a user uses sbox	23:43
timeless_xchat	or for a secretary who didn't properly book my hotel	23:44
timeless_xchat	or for want of a pony!	23:44
PaulFertser	timeless_xchat: i do not blame scratchbox for that, i'm sorry if i wasn't clear about that.	23:44
* timeless_xchat wants a pony		23:44
timeless_xchat	so otr is basically a way for each contact to publish an inbound key	23:45
timeless_xchat	and people encrypt using it?	23:45
PaulFertser	timeless_xchat: yes but then it's published and so the conversation becomes totally unsigned and unverifiable after it happened.	23:46
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timeless_xchat	which is published? the private key?	23:46
PaulFertser	timeless_xchat: yes, iirc.	23:47
* timeless_xchat shrugs		23:47
timeless_xchat	the chat app is basically a web page	23:47
PaulFertser	Nobody can claim you really said something after that, because anyone can fake it.	23:47
timeless_xchat	if you can do your crypto in javascript	23:47
PaulFertser	But while you're still talking, you know for sure whom you're talking with.	23:48
timeless_xchat	you can implement this stuff	23:48
timeless_xchat	w/o touching telepathy	23:48
timeless_xchat	as for gpg...	23:48
timeless_xchat	modest is open...	23:48
timeless_xchat	it's probably about 500 lines of work	23:49
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timeless_xchat	actually, you'd probably spend most of the time in tinymail	23:50
lcuk	PaulFertser, even that first claim is incorrect. you can only go as far as saying you are speaking directly to the person with access to a specific account	23:50
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lcuk	there is still no verifiable way of knowing who is really at the other end of the keyboard	23:50
PaulFertser	javispedro: (the way they use obs) but the base for the scratchbox is some outdated fork, and you can choose the base for obs as you like, including recent sane upstream releases.	23:50
javispedro	PaulFertser: that's the nightmarish part of sbox, upgrading it.	23:51
jacekowski	timeless_xchat: you can do crypto in js	23:51
PaulFertser	lcuk: sure thing	23:51
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timeless_xchat	you could do that w/ scratchbox too	23:51
jacekowski	timeless_xchat: but it's not very fast	23:51
timeless_xchat	jacekowski : i said that, no?	23:51
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jacekowski	you said if	23:51
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timeless_xchat	well if meaning "if you are a coder able to do"	23:52
javispedro	timeless_xchat: does the chat app use gtkhtml or browser-eal?	23:52
timeless_xchat	the latter	23:53
javispedro	... was thinking that if you really want to use crypto in js you could potentially export a C++ crypto class to js	23:53
javispedro	via XPConnect or similar, if that's even available.	23:53
timeless_xchat	you could	23:53
timeless_xchat	you could also just do the work in telepathy	23:54
* timeless_xchat shrugs		23:54
timeless_xchat	kinda depends on the goal	23:54
timeless_xchat	do you want to persist the crypted or plain message?	23:55
timeless_xchat	tinymail is http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/tinymail/libtinymail/ more or less..	23:57
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timeless_xchat	you could do crypto in modest too, i suppose	23:58
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timeless_xchat	but that leaves the other ui's in the cold	23:58

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