IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-11-05

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BigWookie	Umm, I got a few questions, that sum up in one big, Aren't there any nerds using Maemo (N900), or why isn't there a virtual keyboard with all keys, a suitable alternative to osso-xterm, even a notifications script for irssi is missing, and the hilden desktop is not really a match for me either. I seem to be unable to find resources for a minimalist interface on my device, and it's out there a pretty long time	00:00
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SpeedEvil	Basically, large slices of the interface are closed.	00:01
lcuk	huh SpeedEvil	00:01
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SpeedEvil	Which mean that replacing single aspects of it can run into closed blobs.	00:01
lcuk	thats nothing to do with his questions	00:01
SpeedEvil	It sort of is.	00:01
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alterego	I think mainly, it's because the XTerm is adequate.	00:02
lcuk	BigWookie, the VKB probably hasnt had that much loving (it got lots) because theres a hardware keyboard	00:02
lcuk	and frankly, switching whole screen console for a letterbox one	00:02
lcuk	is a bit odd	00:02
SpeedEvil	The poor documentation as to what is closed, and what was open, lead many to think that bits that are really closed are open.	00:02
SpeedEvil	Which delayed things several months	00:02
alterego	But if you want to run some other "desktop" environment, there's always easy debian + xfce or whatever.	00:02
lcuk	yeah	00:03
lcuk	you can even run meego	00:03
lcuk	:P	00:03
BigWookie	SpeedEvil: i don't see the problem in that, pretty much anything is conrollable via dbus and modular build	00:03
wmarone	alterego: which is a weak form of "run"	00:03
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: but it's not.	00:03
BigWookie	lcuk: the problem with the keyboard that it dosn't cover all keys :<	00:03
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: don't you mean "lead many to think things are closed when in fact they are open"?	00:03
lcuk	BigWookie, it covers the majority - people complain about tab and pipe who use console	00:04
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SpeedEvil	BigWookie: The dbus implementation of the closed parts is not documented, only does what the other closed parts require, does not support introspection.	00:04
lcuk	and they find a way to switch out a couple of their keys and forget about it for another 6 months	00:04
alterego	BigWookie: you obviously haven't done much development with the platform ;)	00:04
alterego	Albeit, replacing the vkb input method is actually quite easy. So give it a go :P	00:04
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: For example - you want to setup your IP connection to use a VPN - how do you do it?	00:04
BigWookie	alterego: i should have written it differently, everything I need	00:04
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SpeedEvil	BigWookie: There is the linux answer.	00:05
BigWookie	SpeedEvil: OpenVPN config and daemon	00:05
lcuk	(long rant meaning: "where is teh pipe key"	00:05
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: Then you run into the problem that the connection daemon does not understand other connections than the ones it's set up.	00:05
BigWookie	I don't use the interface really much, I just want to be able to use the phone and sms features without problems	00:05
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: And the connection daemon is closed source.	00:05
DocScrutinizer	BigWookie: http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Keyboard_characters	00:05
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: And that even if you have the interface up and configured (by installing wpaconfig say - as the existing client can't be driven that way, you then have to kill icd, and implement all its features in your app, in order for the device to work 'properly'.	00:06
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: For example, if you have a working IP connection, the web browser does not know of this, and will try to bring up a connection through the normal manner.	00:07
APTX	Does the Nokia Qt SDK have Qt 4.7?	00:07
DocScrutinizer	yoh, icd blob a major PITA	00:07
lcuk	APTX, it should have (get latest) if not, its certainly on the way as the bits are sorted	00:07
DocScrutinizer	it works nice for "standard"	00:08
SpeedEvil	There are other binary blobs that you have to completely replace and reverse engineer all the interfaces if you want the device to keep working for 'normal' users - if you're wanting to change the way the device works.	00:08
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BigWookie	I already switched hardware keys, but I don't need a map for the F keys for example all the time, so I wanted to do this via a virtual keyboard (xvkbd in easy debian), which wouldn't work	00:08
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	00:09
DocScrutinizer	closed afaik	00:09
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BigWookie	I have to admit that I didn't look to much in the network section, thought I can handle the default linux way	00:11
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DocScrutinizer	alas not at all	00:11
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SpeedEvil	Large slices of the 'normal' interfaces have been reengineered - some for good reaons - icd has a place.	00:12
BigWookie	I can even bridge interfaces with iptables, why shouldn't I be able to configure my devices?	00:12
SpeedEvil	There is no good alternative to it.	00:12
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: See above	00:12
DocScrutinizer	connectivity is one of the devices core functions where Nokia insists "to differentiate"	00:12
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: a) no wpa_config or normal tools	00:12
SpeedEvil	BigWookie: This is easy to fix.	00:12
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BigWookie	I even concidered to use ratpoison with a few wrapper functions...	00:12
SpeedEvil	b) icd will screw with any connections you bring up.	00:12
SpeedEvil	c) the default software stack will not consider that the interface is available for use unless ICD has said it's brought it up	00:13
SpeedEvil	d) underpants	00:13
DocScrutinizer	hehe	00:13
DocScrutinizer	boxershorts?	00:13
BigWookie	-.- this is cruel	00:14
SpeedEvil	They are the approved nokia mankini.	00:14
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BigWookie	how do the people with kde manage this?	00:15
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DocScrutinizer	kde? o.O	00:15
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SpeedEvil	http://www.nokia.co.uk/ - compare the colourscheme - http://amyo.id.au/kelly/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/borat-mankini.jpg	00:15
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BigWookie	http://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_operating_systems	00:16
BigWookie	woops oO	00:16
DocScrutinizer	wah, I'm blind!	00:16
BigWookie	http://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_desktop_environments that	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	do they claim all that shit is running for them?	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	and, what exactly do they use of kde? Just the windows manager? or have they replaced icd by knetworkmanager and claim it works?	00:18
BigWookie	Sorry I don't know how far the replacement goes	00:18
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	00:18
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BigWookie	and as it seems the wiki just went down for me	00:19
SpeedEvil	Also.	00:20
SpeedEvil	In general, be careful about assuming stuff on the wiki.	00:21
BigWookie	I know, some stuff is deprecated	00:21
SpeedEvil	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20317 - is linked as 'current' from this page	00:21
SpeedEvil	from a page off the alternative environments page	00:21
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DocScrutinizer	boozetime o/	00:22
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BigWookie	I just want to get rid of all the overhead :/	00:22
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BigWookie	There is no question I need programms to handle the connections and call/sms stuff as well as alarm calendar etc, but I don't need a fanci ui, transitions and all that, and the mix of easy debian and native apps is also not my favourite	00:24
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SpeedEvil	you can turn off tansitions	00:26
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APTX	lcuk: The latest sdk was released yesterday. I installed the online version yesterday and it had docs for 4.7 but the toolchain was for 4.6. Now I DLed the full version and it does have 4.7 (at least the installer claims so)	00:27
lcuk	APTX, its possible, its all being shifted over at the moment	00:27
lcuk	along with adding toolchain options for meego i guess too	00:28
alterego	There was an update you can get over the net.	00:28
lcuk	alterego, how is the qml going?	00:28
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lcuk	or are you back onto native for most stuff	00:28
APTX	alterego: I did check that as well, just before asking	00:28
BigWookie	Hmm thanks for the support , gn8	00:28
Bilaw	Yo all!	00:29
APTX	but if the full install really has it I'll just use that	00:29
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alterego	lcuk: it's going well, at the moment I'm doing some more lower level hacking.	00:29
alterego	(FFT and audio stuff)	00:29
lcuk	sounds reasonable	00:29
lcuk	yeah i heard	00:29
lcuk	have you seen any of hte stuff pupnik and kotzcarny have been upto? or the audelicious app?	00:29
alterego	Nope	00:30
Bilaw	A silly question: just why can’t my N900 connect in WPA (either wpa or wpa2), with my own network, using all the right codes and all?	00:30
SpeedEvil	alterego: Why?	00:30
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SpeedEvil	Bilaw: Works for me.	00:30
lcuk	alterego, audelicious is slick	00:30
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alterego	SpeedEvil: well, I wanted to write a guitar tuner app.	00:30
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alterego	Then I got hooked into FFT ..	00:30
Bilaw	I assume it must work, SpeedEvil!	00:30
SpeedEvil	alterego: ah	00:30
nidO	Bilaw, wpa causes problems	00:30
lcuk	alterego, i was using app to tune a guitar the other nite	00:30
alterego	So I learned about FFT, implemented my own and now I'm playing ^.^	00:31
nidO	make sure you're using wpa2	00:31
nidO	and dont use a hidden ssid	00:31
alterego	lcuk: yeah, I noticed there was one release not so long ago.	00:31
Bilaw	I’ve configured none of that, nidO…	00:31
alterego	Which is a shame.	00:31
SpeedEvil	Bilaw: Unfortunately, as discussed above, though I suppose you came in later - ICD is closed, and doesn't really do the debugging output thing.	00:31
crashanddie	Bilaw: are you on channel 13, by any chance?	00:31
lcuk	alterego, was using kots osc app	00:31
Bilaw	whats ICD, SpeedEvil?	00:32
lcuk	it has radial oscilliscope thats extremely good to look at	00:32
crashanddie	Bilaw: internet connection daemon	00:32
Bilaw	Oh.	00:32
alterego	Heh, cool	00:32
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alterego	But anyway, it's been a long time since I've done any actual math programming stuff.	00:34
alterego	So it's been quite fun.	00:35
APTX	Bilaw: did you try rebooting it?	00:36
Bilaw	APTX: you mean the tablet, not the router? Well, no, I’ll try that………	00:37
APTX	I meant the tablet	00:37
APTX	I had a problem where the device wouldn't connect to a secure network	00:38
Bilaw	oh, hang on, by “reboot“ you don’t mean simply turning it off and back on, do you?	00:38
APTX	yes I did mean that	00:38
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APTX	that problem happened only once and it did fix itself after a reboot	00:39
Bilaw	(pffew! I feared you’d have meant flashing the firmware, which usuallu takes me 3 hours and several attemps)	00:39
alterego	Eh?	00:40
alterego	Takes me less than a 3 minutes ...	00:40
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Bilaw	— well, I am not good at that, alterego… Not good at all.	00:40
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alterego	Meh, practice, all you have to do is run the flasher program and then plugin your N900 ..	00:44
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Bilaw	alterego: Yes, but many a times the package was not 777’d, and I couldn’t run it, and then I got lost between chgp and chown, and then I forgot my password, and then my tea was ready, and then I’d forgotten I had a flashing going on, and then I couldn’t press those fcuking ctrl-shift-A+X+# while singing a B-flat at the same time, and then I would give up and smoke another cigarette, and that’s why it takes me 3 hours, alterego.	00:49
Bilaw	I am not good, I told you…	00:49
alterego	Erm ...	00:50
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alterego	I don't think any of that actually matters ..	00:50
Bilaw	and by the way, APTX, it worked. Rebooting was enough (I thought that was the kind of Wind0w$ solution, though)	00:51
Bilaw	— Yes, alterego?	00:51
Bilaw	Thanks many many times, APTX	00:51
APTX	Bilaw: there is some deamon you could kill, but I don't remember which or where I found that info (other than the maemo forums)	00:52
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Bilaw	(and, as you would have gathered, APTX, I am about as good at ps aux than i am at sudo flash <kernel-thing<. Ask alterego. He knows ’bout it)	00:54
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Bilaw	(or is it su-./-do flash? Never learnt.)	00:54
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Bilaw	Anyway, is it acceptable to ask you all where you are typing from? (I am thinking country, not nature of the chair)	00:56
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lcuk	Bilaw, my usual answer is from Earth; it saves a lot of questions.	00:57
Bilaw	Hmm. Thats because you know not me! But at least you took the trouble to answer!	00:58
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lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLS35kyYlOU	01:02
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alterego	http://alterego.metapath.org/maemo/fourier/Screenshot-20101104-230255.png	01:06
alterego	Me doing a very convincing middle C :D	01:06
SpeedEvil	umm...	01:07
lcuk	alterego, cool	01:07
alterego	Okay, I was 3 hz flat :(	01:07
lcuk	look at this: http://www.youtube.com/user/cowbot2#p/a/u/1/nsyqwi8rmEM	01:07
SpeedEvil	Why is that mirrored?	01:07
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alterego	I thought it would look cooler.	01:08
SpeedEvil	I mean - on the x axis	01:08
lcuk	coolness should not be underestimated :P	01:08
alterego	Because FFT graphs are symentric	01:08
lcuk	alterego, take a peek in audelicious	01:09
SpeedEvil	alterego: err - no they are not	01:09
alterego	Really? Well, this one is ..	01:09
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alterego	Probably due to the sine and cosine	01:09
lcuk	SpeedEvil, "All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental."	01:10
SpeedEvil	alterego: see http://wb4mak.com/	01:10
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: harmonics? or a bug in gnuprolog	01:11
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SpeedEvil	Dunno. But DFTs are not symmetric	01:11
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alterego	I think you'll find that they are, it's just most people only plot half of the generated array	01:13
DocScrutinizer51	yeah; I seem to remember you have to discard something like the i-component on FFT	01:13
DocScrutinizer51	DFT	01:13
DocScrutinizer51	whatever	01:13
DocScrutinizer51	otherwise you get that symetric things	01:14
SpeedEvil	Oh - you're plotting the I and Q components?	01:14
SpeedEvil	They're not actually symmetric	01:14
alterego	Well, no, and either is the graph :P	01:14
DocScrutinizer51	also windowing is an art	01:14
SpeedEvil	yeah - it's approximately - which is what I was wondering about.	01:15
SpeedEvil	yep.	01:15
alterego	I've not done any windowing.	01:15
alterego	Will add that next.	01:15
alterego	Well, next I'm going to do some averaging, I might add windowing but it's not needed for my guitar tuner.	01:15
alterego	Then I'm going to write a noise cancellation filter.	01:15
alterego	Anyhow, bed time :)	01:16
SpeedEvil	Night.	01:16
alterego	Take care folks	01:16
* DocScrutinizer51 suspects alterego 's voice organ (sorry wod missing) creates some bright 1st harmonic :-D		01:16
MohammadAG	speaking of visualizations, I love the "libvisual jess plugin" in Rythmbox	01:17
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SpeedEvil	Voicebox	01:19
SpeedEvil	(though the voiceboxes output is heavily modified by the throat and mouth in most people. (apart from the decapitated)	01:20
DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: could we maybe get fontsize zoomin in xchat via vol+-, like in xterm?	01:20
MohammadAG	would be lovely ^	01:20
SpeedEvil	Well - yuou'd want it as a bindable	01:21
SpeedEvil	you can bind the zoom buttons to do arbitrary things as it is rught now.	01:21
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: I know	01:21
DocScrutinizer51	wouldn't want to go to complex in my request	01:21
DocScrutinizer51	a sane developer will know how to implement	01:22
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: actually my vol keys are unbound as I hoped that'd make them do volume. Alas works only once after xchat startup :-o	01:24
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pupnik	http://wiki.bennington.edu/wiki/The_Arcades_Project (disassembling robotron 2084) "The amazing thing about Robo is how it completely throws away the event loop, and uses interrupts for each object that moves."	01:29
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pupnik	http://svn.bennington.edu/viewvc/svn/robotron <<< seems to be down, and missing from archive.org	01:32
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tripzero	i wonder how many games are available on maemo	01:48
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tripzero	and if it competes at all with android or iOS as far and quantity of games	01:48
SpeedEvil	No.	01:48
SpeedEvil	Absolutely not.	01:49
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SpeedEvil	(that is not counting hte various emulated games)	01:49
tripzero	why not count those too?	01:49
* MohammadAG just realized Jaffa's avatar is a J, an F, and a A		01:49
* DocScrutinizer51 is missing mokomaze		01:49
MohammadAG	http://talk.maemo.org/image.php?u=15155&dateline=1205676131	01:49
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SpeedEvil	tripzero: that isn't an unreasonable question, but many of them are not playable.	01:49
tripzero	hrm	01:50
SpeedEvil	tripzero: For example - because there is a spectrum emulator does not mean that the games are actually playable, due to keyboard or other constraints.	01:50
tripzero	true	01:50
SpeedEvil	Also - the rights issues are unclear.	01:50
MohammadAG	<tripzero> and if it competes at all with android or iOS as far and quantity of games <-- No from me too	01:50
APTX	ant these games weren't really made for maemo	01:50
APTX	*and	01:50
MohammadAG	it doesn't compete with Symbian^3, and that was recently released	01:51
tripzero	ouch	01:51
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SpeedEvil	There is one? Compelling commercial game. Angry birds.	01:51
SpeedEvil	And that's it.	01:51
SpeedEvil	Have I missed any?	01:51
tripzero	hrm	01:51
SpeedEvil	OTOH	01:51
SpeedEvil	I've played nethack on it, and it works fine.	01:52
tripzero	i suppose quantity of users probably dictates available games...	01:52
SpeedEvil	Not only that.	01:52
MohammadAG	there are other games	01:52
tripzero	hopefully meego changes that	01:52
MohammadAG	Crazy hamster or whatever	01:52
MohammadAG	rollercoaster game	01:52
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MohammadAG	but all of those(?) or more are on Symbian^3	01:52
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SpeedEvil	The problem is not only the audience - it's also nokia have basically screwed up really hard on encouraging commercial devs in.	01:53
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MohammadAG	I'm surprised how many games were ported to Symbian^3, looks well supported by developers	01:53
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MohammadAG	angry birds is awesome on it	01:53
MohammadAG	better than on the N900 if I may add	01:53
tripzero	rly?	01:53
MohammadAG	yes	01:53
tripzero	it's pretty good on the n900 imho	01:53
MohammadAG	higher FPS on the N8	01:53
tripzero	what's the n8 sporting as the cpu?	01:54
* tripzero wikipedia's		01:54
MohammadAG	some ARM11 680MHz CPU	01:54
MohammadAG	but the GFX chip is epic iirc	01:54
tripzero	hrm	01:54
tripzero	nice	01:54
tripzero	i really want the n9	01:54
tripzero	i need a second phone	01:55
tripzero	and don't want to get an android	01:55
MohammadAG	I need a second N900	01:55
tripzero	not even just for the wife	01:55
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tripzero	only 256mb ram still?	01:56
MohammadAG	Symbian isn't a memory hog	01:56
MohammadAG	it'll run out of memory, but it can get 200MBs free on bootup I think	01:56
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MohammadAG	or at least 150	01:56
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MohammadAG	cam starts in 2 secs, focusing -> capturing -> processing takes 2 secs	01:57
MohammadAG	browser's shit	01:57
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tripzero	n9 doesn't have a wikipedia page yet :(	01:57
tripzero	cam starts faster than maemo?	01:57
MohammadAG	yes, and it's a 12MP one	01:57
* tripzero wishes it started slightly faster on the n900		01:58
MohammadAG	only disappointment would be non LED flash to accompany the xenon one	01:58
MohammadAG	so no flashlight	01:58
MohammadAG	no LED*	01:59
tripzero	haha	01:59
tripzero	true	01:59
MohammadAG	rotation is almost instant on symbian, probably due to the light transitions	01:59
MohammadAG	and I'm surprised that the gallery scrolls faster and smoother than the iPhone 4, so they finally got it right	02:00
tripzero	rotation on maemo is laughable	02:00
MohammadAG	capacitive screens are meh	02:00
tripzero	meego is much better	02:00
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MohammadAG	don't like meego for some reason	02:00
MohammadAG	it feels like a downgrade	02:00
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tripzero	right now... it is	02:01
MohammadAG	same goes for android	02:01
MohammadAG	the UI concept is a downgrade, not the speed/features	02:01
tripzero	meego doesn't quite have the hacker ethos feel yet	02:01
MohammadAG	and it won't, at least imo	02:01
tripzero	why not?	02:01
MohammadAG	it's shaping up to be a consumer's phone	02:01
tripzero	well, that's kinda the UI design goal	02:02
MohammadAG	I hope they miss those goals	02:02
tripzero	but there's no reason why you can't qml up your own awesomeness	02:02
MohammadAG	Maemo 5 has an epic UI	02:02
tripzero	i like it, but it has its quirks	02:02
tripzero	requires learning	02:02
tripzero	which consumer's don't know how to do easily	02:03
MohammadAG	keeps friends away from most private stuff	02:03
tripzero	haha	02:03
MohammadAG	a friend of mine took about 10 minutes to figure out how to open the menu	02:03
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tripzero	wow	02:03
tripzero	i can see that...	02:04
MohammadAG	and most of my friends think Maemo is a theme, for symbian	02:04
tripzero	android isn't much better in some areas though	02:04
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tripzero	heh, you must not live in the states. nobody here knows wtf symbian is	02:04
tripzero	let alone maemo	02:04
MohammadAG	Most devices are symbians here	02:04
MohammadAG	the iPhone failed, a $1600 price tag wasn't the best thing it got	02:05
tripzero	sheesh	02:05
tripzero	yeah, outside the us, things aren't subsidized	02:05
MohammadAG	that is subsidized, sorta	02:05
MohammadAG	it's not unlocked	02:05
tripzero	which i really dislike about the states...	02:05
tripzero	i hate being locked into contracts	02:06
tripzero	which is one of the reasons why i like the n900	02:07
tripzero	(unlocked ftw)	02:07
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MohammadAG	true	02:08
MohammadAG	all of the phones I have (and use) are unlocked	02:08
DocScrutinizer51	there's simlocked n900	02:08
tripzero	overall though, compared to android/ios, maemo5 is the most capable OS	02:09
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vickyk73	hi can some help me please with my nokia n900	02:09
tripzero	shore	02:09
tripzero	step 1) n900	02:09
tripzero	2) hammer	02:09
tripzero	3)...	02:09
tripzero	4) profit!	02:09
DocScrutinizer51	~ask	02:09
infobot	Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.	02:09
MohammadAG	~ack	02:10
infobot	ACK ACK ACK	02:10
vickyk73	i tried to update my nokia n900 to the latest update it gave me an error after it had backed up and tried to install the software it asked me to reboot and try again	02:10
vickyk73	now when i m trying to reboot it is telling me all telelphony functions including ememrgency calls are disabled due to a communicATION ERROR.	02:10
vickyk73	TORECOVER YOU MIGHT HAVE TO REBOOT THE DEVICE	02:11
vickyk73	I HAVE DOME THAT 5 TIMES AND STILL NOTHING	02:11
tripzero	off caps	02:11
vickyk73	sorry for the caps	02:11
tripzero	thx	02:11
tripzero	you tried to over-the-air update?	02:11
vickyk73	like not from ovi suite but from the phone itself	02:12
tripzero	you probably want to flash it	02:12
tripzero	i hear it's the safest method	02:12
vickyk73	ok	02:12
vickyk73	i m new to it	02:12
tripzero	~pr1.3	02:12
infobot	it has been said that pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update	02:12
tripzero	no worreis	02:12
vickyk73	so could u pls tell me how to go about it	02:12
MohammadAG	you'll lose all apps though	02:12
tripzero	meh, that's what backup is for	02:12
DocScrutinizer51	~flash	02:12
infobot	methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	02:13
MohammadAG	settings, contacts, texts and similar stuff will not be touched	02:13
MohammadAG	as well as media	02:13
vickyk73	so flashing means formatting?	02:13
MohammadAG	pretty much yes	02:13
DocScrutinizer51	err...	02:13
MohammadAG	but the 32GB part won't be lost	02:13
DocScrutinizer51	you said you did a backup	02:14
DocScrutinizer51	it'll bring back all your stuff, after flashing	02:14
tripzero	when you send an n900 in for service, do they wipe the 32gig part ?	02:15
DocScrutinizer51	just don't flash eMMC aka VANILLA	02:15
DocScrutinizer51	tripzero: usually they do	02:15
tripzero	grumble...	02:15
tripzero	oh well, i made a backup in case they did	02:15
vickyk73	can i message someone in private	02:16
vickyk73	and can they help me step by step please	02:16
vickyk73	i don't wanna mess up my phone	02:16
vickyk73	:)	02:16
DocScrutinizer51	no, just because theres no secrets	02:16
tripzero	follow the instructions above	02:16
tripzero	in ~flash	02:16
tripzero	~flash	02:16
infobot	rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	02:16
tripzero	and	02:16
tripzero	~pr1.3	02:17
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3 -- see ~flashing for how to update	02:17
tripzero	and ask questions here if needed ;)	02:17
tripzero	it's really hard to mess up your phone	02:17
DocScrutinizer51	come here and everybody loves to help	02:17
DocScrutinizer51	go PM and get lost	02:17
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DocScrutinizer51	woukd you trust a single unknown person?	02:18
vickyk73	ok it sent me to this page : http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	02:19
vickyk73	am i going right so far	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	yes	02:19
vickyk73	now what to do next	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	read	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	~flash	02:19
infobot	flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	completely	02:19
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DocScrutinizer51	don't flash VABNILLA	02:20
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vickyk73	i m lost	02:21
vickyk73	what do i click on next	02:21
DocScrutinizer51	have a linux PC at hand (windiowws is a PITA)	02:21
pigeon	is it known that	02:22
DocScrutinizer51	or wait for help from other windoze users here	02:22
pigeon	is it known that the libsdl-mixer1.2 package is broken with 1.3 dependencies?	02:22
pigeon	when i install it, it wants to remove mp-fremantle-002-pr	02:22
DocScrutinizer51	libsdl is borked since months	02:23
DocScrutinizer51	starts to get epic	02:23
pigeon	oh	02:23
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DocScrutinizer51	vickyk73: read abot ~flashing. reread. read again	02:25
DocScrutinizer51	download flasher and images	02:26
DocScrutinizer51	come here if problems	02:26
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vickyk73	i have downloaded the flasher on my computer	02:34
vickyk73	now i put imeli in the field	02:35
vickyk73	and i m downloading the maemo 5 global release file	02:35
vickyk73	am i doing everything correct so far?	02:35
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DocScrutinizer	yes	02:35
DocScrutinizer	:-)	02:36
vickyk73	so what's gonna be the next step	02:36
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vickyk73	i m new to this so pls forgive me if i sound ignorant	02:36
DocScrutinizer	start flashing	02:36
vickyk73	:)	02:36
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DocScrutinizer	of COMBINED	02:36
Macer	hi	02:36
vickyk73	so i double click on my pc	02:37
vickyk73	or do i have to transfer the files on to the nokia n900	02:37
DocScrutinizer	nope	02:37
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DocScrutinizer	depending on what OS you use on your PC, you follow steps as described on	02:38
DocScrutinizer	~flash	02:38
infobot	rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	02:38
vickyk73	xp	02:38
DocScrutinizer	linux is much easier to get it right, but xp should work afaik	02:38
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DocScrutinizer	you need to become admin, or whatever that's called. start a admin commandshell	02:39
DocScrutinizer	then follow the steps as written in ~flashing	02:40
DocScrutinizer	it's all there	02:40
DocScrutinizer	just read a 4th time	02:40
DocScrutinizer	I know it's a mess	02:40
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DocScrutinizer	iirc something like shift-enter selecting "cmd" from menu is involved	02:42
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DocScrutinizer	sorry no windows here since 15 years	02:42
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DocScrutinizer	ignore shit, read "Updating or re-flashing the firmware using the Flasher"	02:44
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DocScrutinizer	>>>Open the Command Prompt (Start then Run or Windows Logo key + R) and type cmd then press Enter	02:46
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DocScrutinizer	vickyk73: you're still alive?	02:47
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* DocScrutinizer waves		02:52
DocScrutinizer	vickyk73: good luck	02:52
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DocScrutinizer	(it's kinda annoying Nokia tailors things for windoze users instead of supporting linux geeks properly and trusting in linux community's abilities to set up proper windows interface and instructions)	02:57
DocScrutinizer	rather rotten kind of thinking	02:58
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mtnbkr	seems the WORLD caters to windows and windows users. :(	02:59
DocScrutinizer	"we're building a linux based phone, but our target customer profile is windows noobs" - WTF??	02:59
mtnbkr	and here is the link to the sync_client.exe sigh	03:00
FauxFaux	Linux users capable of getting access to a windows machine or vm: 99%. Windows users capable of getting access to a linux vm: 0%.	03:00
DocScrutinizer	til now I've not seen a sible company succeed on this approach	03:01
DocScrutinizer	single*	03:01
krayon	DocScrutinizer: The android ones seem to be doing OK, but I guess they aren't specifically aiming for Windows noobs.	03:02
DocScrutinizer	FauxFaux: so this tells us what exactly?	03:02
FauxFaux	You lot need to quit whining. :)	03:02
DocScrutinizer	FauxFaux: I more feel like kicking	03:03
vickyk73	sorry doc i was reading	03:03
vickyk73	i m still here	03:03
vickyk73	ok	03:03
vickyk73	so i have downloaded both files on my pc	03:03
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vickyk73	i double clicked on the flasher and installed it to my pc	03:04
rpgdude	does maemo have a keyring app?	03:04
vickyk73	do i install the other file as well on my pc?	03:04
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vickyk73	well the other file is a .bin file and it will not install like the flasher	03:05
DocScrutinizer	vickyk73: nope	03:05
krayon	rpgdude: for what?	03:05
rpgdude	ssh keys	03:05
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vickyk73	so doc what do i do now	03:05
vickyk73	i have the command prompt open now as well	03:06
DocScrutinizer	vickyk73: refer to ~flashing, the command there needs to be entered into this blacjk cmdshell window	03:06
rpgdude	somethign like gnome-keyring or kwallet	03:06
DocScrutinizer	command prompt is good	03:06
vickyk73	so do i keep the phone still unplugged	03:06
DocScrutinizer	yes	03:06
vickyk73	ok	03:06
vickyk73	i want ur help	03:06
vickyk73	as i go along	03:06
DocScrutinizer	despite what's written on wiki, you should start flasher cmdline now	03:07
DocScrutinizer	flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R	03:07
DocScrutinizer	but make sure you got admin rights for that	03:07
DocScrutinizer	anybody to help me out on how to makes ure you got ""root"" on windows?	03:08
Shapeshifter	not sure if that's also applicable for xp, but in vista and later, you find cmd.exe, and do rightclick->run as administrator	03:08
rpgdude	the only thing i can find is keychain package	03:08
DocScrutinizer	YES!!	03:09
Shapeshifter	but I've heard of the shift-click thing	03:09
rpgdude	it doesn't look like in integrates with the desktop very well	03:09
DocScrutinizer	yeah - shift click, or shift enter, something	03:09
rpgdude	im just wondering if there is an easy/official way to get this working	03:09
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: any command for cmd.exe to check if you're admin?	03:10
vickyk73	doc it's asking me to press U on device when plugging in USB	03:10
DocScrutinizer	yes	03:10
DocScrutinizer	wait	03:10
vickyk73	do i press U on my computer keyboard or on my phone keyboard	03:10
DocScrutinizer	no, on N900	03:11
vickyk73	cool	03:11
DocScrutinizer	or what's "sudo" for win-xp?	03:12
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chx	DocScrutinizer: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/294676	03:12
DocScrutinizer	vickyk73: sorry, I got no f'ng clue about windows. I'm sure somebody else can walk you thru flashing easily, here	03:12
chx	DocScrutinizer: the command itself is called runas http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/windows_security_runas_shortcut.mspx?mfr=true	03:13
vickyk73	it says press u till windows installs the driver	03:13
vickyk73	how long does it take	03:13
vickyk73	and how will i know	03:13
DocScrutinizer	vickyk73: first start the cmdline like	03:14
DocScrutinizer	flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R	03:14
DocScrutinizer	THEN plug in the N900	03:14
DocScrutinizer	while holding 'u' (not exatly needed, but wn't hurt)	03:15
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: i dunno	03:15
DocScrutinizer	flashing / flasher should start instantly	03:15
krayon	rpgdude: I have no idea sorry. The only thing I use for ssh keys is ssh-agent.	03:15
rpgdude	ok	03:16
* DocScrutinizer sighs and hands over the pilot seat to random anybody		03:16
rpgdude	how do i setup ssh-agent on the n900?	03:16
rpgdude	and how does it unlock the keyring, on boot?	03:16
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DocScrutinizer	please help vickyk73 to flash his N900 to 1.3	03:17
krayon	rpgdude: man ssh-agent. Basically you run ssh-agent and then you unlock/add the keys to it using ssh-add	03:17
vickyk73	doc will eb back in 5 mins	03:18
vickyk73	then m gonna flash	03:18
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krayon	Has anyone verified if new calendar entries' alarms still work with PR1.3? I read some people may be having issues.	03:21
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krayon	I'm still after a way to elegantly back up/download OVI purchases. I'm interested what others use as a solution (maybe I'm the only one using OVI stuff :P)	03:22
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vickyk73	i did excatly as u said	03:28
vickyk73	and nothing is happening doc	03:29
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vickyk73	doc u there?	03:29
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vickyk73	hello	03:32
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rpgdude	when i add my key to the ssh-agent, it works, but only for that session	03:43
krayon	vickyk73: When you plugged it in, you were holding down 'u'?	03:43
rpgdude	if i start a new agent (or reboot) it doesnt remember the key i added	03:44
krayon	rpgdude: I capture the output of ssh-agent and source it for each shell. Basically you need the env variables, SSH_AUTH_SOCK and/or SSH_AGENT_PID	03:44
rpgdude	ah	03:45
rpgdude	i think you just need to start the ssh agent before X	03:46
rpgdude	i found this post	03:46
rpgdude	http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=568438	03:46
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krayon	rpgdude: That would work too presumably.	03:46
krayon	rpgdude: Effectively it's the same however, you just need those variables set, so that ssh knows the agent is running and how to talk to it.	03:47
rpgdude	yeah	03:48
rpgdude	thats not really my problem though	03:48
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rpgdude	i want to unlock the key on login	03:49
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rpgdude	i basically have to run ssh-add everytime i reboot my n900	03:55
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krayon	rpgdude: Yep, you could maybe use something like zenity to GUI prompt on boot or something maybe.	03:57
SpeedEvil	rpgdude: you know you can set 'queen beecons' to run once on desktop start?	03:57
DocScrutinizer51	really?	03:57
DocScrutinizer51	isn't it 'per refresh'	03:57
SpeedEvil	yes - if that was to me.	03:57
SpeedEvil	no	03:58
DocScrutinizer51	seems I really need some days off	03:58
SpeedEvil	update policy - at startup	03:59
SpeedEvil	is one option	03:59
SpeedEvil	there are many	03:59
rpgdude	well i will figure it out some other time, im going to bed	04:01
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ieatlint	heh, yay linux acpi... my laptop now "fails" to hibernate... in that it saves its state, but doesn't turn the laptop off. i need to hold down the power button.. but when i try to resume, it works without issue	04:29
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Termana	good morning	05:06
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Macer	ugh	05:59
Macer	this bt keyboard thing is becomming a pain in the ass	05:59
Macer	it works but not perfect and it's driving me nuts :)	06:00
Macer	like having to keep the phone open is a pain	06:00
Macer	been reading this huge thread trying to figure out how i can fi x it	06:00
Macer	according to the thread it should be working	06:01
Gorroth	raise your hand if you want ettercap on the n900, along with the squid package i'll be submitting soon	06:02
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Macer	hm	06:19
Macer	i'm about to go ghetto and use some sort of crond	06:19
Macer	and just have it run the kbd script once every minute	06:19
Macer	haha	06:19
Macer	talk about murdering a battery	06:20
Macer	i sure wish nokia included this bt hid support in m5 like it did in m4	06:20
Macer	m4 was great for using bt keyboards.. what happened?	06:21
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pupnik_	Macer: that is a vague question i think	06:32
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ebzzry	What's usually wrong when the N900 is connected OK to the access point, but hosts in the same subnet cannot ping it?	06:35
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pupnik_	ebzzry: can n900 resolve other hostnames and connect to them?	06:43
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Macer	pupnik_: heh	06:53
Macer	just seems like a regression	06:54
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chx	Gorroth: ettercap on the n900?	06:56
chx	Gorroth: huh	06:56
krayon	ebzzry: Are you sure you're connected correctly?	06:57
krayon	ebzzry: ifconfig to check. You might want to check your routing table and your resolv.conf too, for good measure.	06:57
Gorroth	chx: yeah, if i can get it to build	06:58
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pupnik_	The "Robotron" hardware was a 1MHz 8-bit 6809 processor, with a custom image coprocessor also running at 1MHz. The amazing thing is this slow circuit had more image processing power than PCs until the early 90s. What made it so powerful was that the image coprocessor was one the first examples of what later became known as a bit blitter--popularized by the Amiga computer. In fact, several of the future designers of the Amiga, including RJ Mical,	07:28
SwedeMike	pupnik_: url?	07:29
pupnik_	http://www.kvalda.com/bennington/public/Halcyon%20Days/BOOK/JARVIS.HTM	07:29
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krayon	ebzzry: oh, there's a few more boot vids btw, the .mp4 ones ;)	07:38
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Gorroth	building ettercap is a pita	07:54
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wazd	Moaning all :)	08:23
jase21	Greetz	08:23
pupnik_	hey wazd, a glorious day to be alive	08:23
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wazd	Pupnik_: well, my application for irish visa is not such a big ocasion :D	08:29
wazd	Pupnik_: but definitely worth it :)	08:29
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jase21	Any maemo specific news ?	08:30
pupnik_	Mozilla Launches Firefox 4 Beta 2 For Android, Maemo	08:33
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wazd	Oh, my roommate is freakin' oss lord :)	08:34
wazd	Frank Karlischek	08:36
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chx	wasnt that Frank Karlitschek?	08:38
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sampos	hello, i want to remove svn repo from the gmo project (using gitorious.org currently), anyone hear able to help me?	08:52
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wazd	Chx: maybe you're right :)	08:59
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wazd	Ok	09:57
wazd	Irish embassy wants to see my work in printed form	09:57
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johnx	wazd, big old code printout? or print the graphics files as hex?	09:58
wazd	I don't give a damn :)	09:59
wazd	But I'm confused	10:00
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bef0rd	for the visa wazd?	10:00
wazd	Yes	10:00
bef0rd	jesus :/	10:00
wazd	My reaction was like O_o	10:01
wazd	i wonder, if I was a freakin' string theory specialist, would they ask me bout my work	10:03
johnx	they'd asked to see printed examples of string theory	10:05
johnx	if you were a farmer, they'd ask for printed examples of your livestock	10:05
wazd	Johnx: bingo	10:05
wazd	:D	10:05
johnx	if you were a porn star ...	10:05
johnx	they have these nice big filing cabinets, so they need something to fill them with that makes them feel like 'due diligence' has been done	10:06
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wazd	Bloody irish...	10:06
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johnx	hwa?	10:21
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RobbieThe1st	Is anyone alive on here?	10:56
johnx	is that a trick question?	10:56
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ieatlint	i'm alive and even sober	11:05
zlimvos	heya all. what is the 'osso-' I see in front of hundreds of packages in the n900?	11:06
johnx	open source software ... ocelot	11:07
MohammadAG51	open source software operations	11:07
MohammadAG51	most osso- packages are closed	11:08
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ieatlint	lol	11:09
zlimvos	mohammad: closed? like discontinued?	11:10
MohammadAG51	no, like closed source	11:10
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ieatlint	i believe most of the osso stuff is parts of the hildon ui	11:10
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MohammadAG51	well, not most of them	11:11
MohammadAG51	hildon is open	11:11
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ieatlint	well, i'm often wrong :P	11:11
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zlimvos	thanks both :)	11:12
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* wazd 's going slightly mad		11:24
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RobbieThe1st	Anyone here have SSH and usb networking working?	11:30
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MohammadAG51	yeah	11:30
RobbieThe1st	Might you be willing to test something for me in a bit?	11:31
ieatlint	i should be available to	11:31
RobbieThe1st	Great. But, not quite yet - I still have a couple bugs to be worked out.	11:32
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fish_sticks	can anyone tell me if I can play movies on my N900 by not copying them into it.use ssh or something to get it from my PC using wifi?	11:43
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ieatlint	fish_sticks: yes, it's possible... although over ssh is not the best solution	11:45
fish_sticks	ieatlint: how can I do that then?	11:46
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ieatlint	simplest is using a dlna/upnp server/client ... as i recall, there's at least one client in the extras repos	11:46
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ieatlint	forget its name... and it won't be very reliable, or work with all kinds of video	11:46
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fish_sticks	ieatlint: can you tell me a bit more?	11:46
SwedeMike	FireFly\|n900: I usually just copy them over usb.	11:47
SwedeMike	FireFly\|n900: put the n900 in mass storage mode and copy it from the pc	11:47
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ieatlint	uh, i'll take a quick look for the client i'm thinking off... it may have a getting started guide for you, but i'm afraid i can't walk you through it	11:48
fish_sticks	thats okay	11:48
fish_sticks	just give me a name.I'll figure it out myself	11:48
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ieatlint	actually, i'm suddenly remembering... isn't the built in media player on the n900 a dlna client?	11:49
fish_sticks	thats what a forum just said	11:49
X-Fade	ieatlint: yes, it is.	11:49
ieatlint	hah	11:49
fish_sticks	so how do I link my PC in that?	11:49
ieatlint	fish_sticks: go look at mediatomb	11:50
X-Fade	dlna servers show up on the main screen of mediaplayer.	11:50
fish_sticks	okay	11:50
ieatlint	although there are several different dlna servers	11:50
ieatlint	and mediatomb may not be best for you	11:50
fish_sticks	so I need to setup the server on my PC?	11:50
X-Fade	windows mediaplayer works also as dlna server.	11:50
fish_sticks	on linux	11:50
fish_sticks	ubuntu actually	11:50
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X-Fade	mediatomb, rygel.	11:51
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fish_sticks	these are the clients for linux?	11:51
fish_sticks	X-Fade:	11:51
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ieatlint	mediatomb is a server	11:52
fish_sticks	okay	11:52
ieatlint	twonky is another one (although i think it's closed source/commercial)	11:52
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fish_sticks	okay	11:52
fish_sticks	I'll try out mediatomb	11:52
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fish_sticks	but you were telling me it doesnt support much?	11:52
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ieatlint	well, it's at the mercy of what codecs and videos the n900 can play, and at the mercy of any wifi hiccups or other issues... also, don't expect it to support tracking (fast forward, reverse, jumping to a new time index) much	11:54
fish_sticks	okay	11:54
ieatlint	and of course, the video needs to have a small enough resolution/bitrate that the n900 can manage to play it smoothly	11:54
fish_sticks	got it	11:54
ieatlint	other options include trying to do an nfs mount :P	11:54
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ieatlint	or potentially samba/sshfs	11:55
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fish_sticks	nfs mount? ouch	11:56
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fish_sticks	mediatomb gave me this ip for the ui	11:56
SwedeMike	for recoding stuff for n900 I've successfully used "tablet-encode" which does things with mencoder quite nicely.	11:56
fish_sticks	but didnt get anything when I ran that on the N900	11:56
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crashanddie_	fish_sticks, mediatomb's IP detection is fail	11:57
fish_sticks	meaning?	11:57
crashanddie_	fish_sticks, what IP did it give?	11:57
ilius	is backup-menu dangerous?	11:57
fish_sticks	crashanddie_: local ip	11:57
fish_sticks	http://192.168.0.148:49153/	11:57
RobbieThe1st	Current version? About as much as any other program that messes with system files	11:58
fish_sticks	its coming on the PC where I created it	11:58
crashanddie_	fish_sticks, can you ping that IP from the N900?	11:58
fish_sticks	trying	11:58
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crashanddie_	ilius, it used to be, I wouldn't trust it.	11:58
ieatlint	note that you don't enter the ip into the n900... the media player will just broadcast on your lan for any dlna servers automatically	11:58
fish_sticks	didnt get you	11:58
RobbieThe1st	To be fair though, I removed all the bits that certain people complained(for good reason) about	11:59
crashanddie_	RobbieThe1st, they weren't complaints	11:59
crashanddie_	it bricked devices.	11:59
ilius	crashanddie_: is there a stable backup tool?	11:59
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crashanddie_	ilius, for backing what up?	11:59
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ilius	osso-backup does not detect my card	12:00
ilius	crashanddie_: rootfs	12:00
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ilius	crashanddie_: and opt	12:00
RobbieThe1st	Either way, the thing is, -now- it's fixed(hopefully to the satisfaction of everyone involved), and does it's job -properly-. Backups seem to work cross-n900 like they should, and everything's fine	12:01
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crashanddie_	its**	12:01
fish_sticks	crashanddie_: i can ping into it	12:01
crashanddie_	fish_sticks, then just open media player, and ensure that MDTB is broadcasting	12:02
fish_sticks	checking	12:02
RobbieThe1st	Also, that's the thing - I invented backupmenu(the first version) because there was -nothing- else that'd do the same job. It's still the only thing that's out there, other than a couple of cludgy SSH backup scripts	12:02
fish_sticks	crashanddie_: MDTB broadcasting meaning?	12:03
fish_sticks	what do I do inside media player?videos?	12:03
crashanddie_	mediatomb	12:03
fish_sticks	how do I do that?	12:03
RobbieThe1st	Either way, to be -perfectly- safe, you can just backup with BackupMenu, then restore with whatever you want: the backups are straight tar files now. As nothing gets written, there should be no chance of breaking things	12:05
fish_sticks	crashanddie_: do I do that using the ui from that ip?	12:06
ilius	what do you recommend for backing up rootfs and optfs?	12:06
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WakiMiko	i am trying to create a symlink in the mydocs folder, but it doesnt work. is that because of the filesystem?	12:11
RobbieThe1st	Yea - fat32 doesn't support symlinks, IIRC	12:11
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WakiMiko	is it possible to change the fs to something more unixy or would that fuck too much up?	12:12
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ilius1	RobbieThe1st: what options is there for restoring that archives except using backup-menu?	12:13
X-Fade	WakiMiko: You can, but then usb mass storage won't work as expected.	12:13
RobbieThe1st	WakiMiko: In theory, yes, but you'd probably have to edit a few scripts. Look around, I'm sure someone's done it	12:14
WakiMiko	thx i will look into it	12:14
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RobbieThe1st	ilius1: http://wiki.maemo.org/Manual_backup_and_restore is probably your best bet, along with http://metalab.at/wiki/Hack-A-N900/Usb_Recovery_Mode#Boot_into_recovery_mode	12:16
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RobbieThe1st	Though, I think you are going to have a tough time of it either way, -if- you can even figure out a way to restore your stuff.	12:16
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crashanddie_	~ping	12:53
infobot	~pong	12:53
ilius	RobbieThe1st: is it possible to apply changes (from a backup archive) to flasher image (like RX... .bin) to restore with flasher?	12:53
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RobbieThe1st	Yes and no. No, you can't edit the RX....bin, or at least not easily. However, you don't have to - You can use the -r option of flasher to specify a rootfs image directly	12:54
RobbieThe1st	If you have a tar file of your rootfs, you can make that into a flashable image by following the instructions here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 (halfway down the page)	12:55
RobbieThe1st	Note that it requires a Linux PC, or at least your N900 and mtd-utils from extras-devel/testing	12:55
Jaffa	Morning, all	12:57
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Jaffa	MohammadAG51: Correct. My initials ;-)	12:57
crashanddie_	morning Jaffa	12:57
RobbieThe1st	Also, just incase you might be thinking about it, -don't- use DD to make an image of the rootfs. Yes, it will flash and (usually) boot, but it can also brick n900s.	12:57
crashanddie_	s/can/will/	12:57
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RobbieThe1st	Whatever - Mine isn't bricked(yet), and I know a number of people - against my wishes, mind you - who are still using that method and risking bricking. But what can I do?	13:00
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RobbieThe1st	<rant>So, I build a system that works. I learn months later that it can/does cause problems. I work on, and finally come up with a solution, and I'm -still- getting flack over my previous system. </rant>	13:05
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ilius	RobbieThe1st: does the tar file contain opt directory? and does flasher copy it after mapping /opt?	13:09
RobbieThe1st	No, and that's your other problem	13:10
RobbieThe1st	Also, you can't boot the entire OS without some files in /opt	13:10
ilius	:(	13:11
crashanddie_	yeah, RobbieThe1st, you bricked fucking devices	13:11
crashanddie_	that's device with a plural s	13:11
RobbieThe1st	The orig. rootfs seems to have a compressed version of all /opt files and a "first run" script which extracts, and then deletes them	13:11
RobbieThe1st	crashanddie_: And I still don't know who these supposed bricked people are!	13:11
crashanddie_	you are not entitled to rant, you are entitled to shut the fuck up, and not try to make things sound like they weren't bad. You uncovered a major issue, and made it clear as day: so thanks for that.	13:12
crashanddie_	you fixed your mistake, and trust me, we _are_ grateful for your reactivity in that matter	13:12
crashanddie_	But don't feel insulted when people don't trust your applications.	13:13
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RobbieThe1st	The only thing I'm upset about is that you, personally, warned someone off, even -knowing- that the issue caused before was fixed. It's one thing to talk about bugs, or current problems... But basing an argument on something you know not to be true? Yea, it does upset me a little.	13:15
RobbieThe1st	Now, that may have come off a little harsh, and if so I apologize, but...	13:16
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MohammadAG51	RobbieThe1st, one of those people is me	13:17
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RobbieThe1st	I thought you got it going again?	13:18
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MohammadAG51	i did, but it wasn't something the average noob can do	13:18
* ilius confused		13:18
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MohammadAG51	a normal person isn't expected to have ubuntu and a custom kernel to ignore mtds at bootup	13:19
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MohammadAG51	(and mtd-utils to wipe his NAND)	13:19
pigeon	hmm	13:19
MohammadAG51	now, I would test your app, but i have too many things to restore in case it doesn't work	13:19
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RobbieThe1st	ilius: About 6 months ago, I released an application that used DD to backup and restore system images. The rootfs, I learned later, ends up backing up with bad blocks on it, and the restore screws things up due to that	13:20
MohammadAG51	RobbieThe1st, you can keep dd for /opt	13:20
MohammadAG51	well, /home	13:20
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RobbieThe1st	Yea, I could - I ended up using tar for both though, and it seems to be a better solution anyway	13:21
pigeon	not sure if it's a 1.3 thing, but i just notice my n900 keyboard light is always on, even when it's closed, or the screen is locked.	13:21
pigeon	or at least, the left and right lights of the keyboard	13:21
pigeon	when i open the keyboard, those in the middles are on too.	13:22
chem\|st	pigeon: erhm wtf?	13:22
RobbieThe1st	ilius: Three months ago, I get an email from Andrew on the council telling me that my app's bricking people's n900s. Up until that point, I had no clue that it did anything worse than not restore right for some people. I came in here, and learned how, why, and what not to do.	13:22
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pigeon	oh wait, could it be because i have turned on some rd flags?	13:22
lcuk	yes	13:22
chem\|st	pigeon: what I had last night was that the screen did not lock when I just opened and closed the slide from locked state	13:23
chem\|st	pigeon: yes	13:23
RobbieThe1st	ilius: I then spent a month or so fixing things, and came out with a new version that was "safer", better, and -seems- to work for -all- n900s, no issues, and have spent the last couple months working on and improving that. So there's my story	13:23
pigeon	ah right, my fault then, i switched on some rd mode flags while trying to rescue my half pr1.3 upgrade.	13:23
chem\|st	pigeon: thats an rd indicator now you mention it	13:23
* pigeon kicks myself a bit.		13:23
pigeon	thanks.	13:23
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ilius	RobbieThe1st: hmmm	13:24
chem\|st	I'd like to have a keyboard VUmeter... :(	13:24
lcuk	chem\|st, speak to MohammadAG51	13:24
pigeon	i couldn't free up enough disk space for ota upgrade, so i manually aptitude install (upgrade) some (big) packages, until it thinks it doesn't need as much.	13:25
chem\|st	lcuk: thought it did not work that well...	13:25
chem\|st	MohammadAG51: does your kbd-VUmeter finally work?	13:25
RobbieThe1st	MohammadAG51: Since you know such things, I've got a question for you - I've been rebooting my n900 from the terminal with 'reboot'. One day, out of the blue, it won't boot anymore - reboot loop. It turns out optfs got partially corrupted, and the files that got restored were tracker/thumbnailer files.	13:25
ilius	RobbieThe1st: thank you :)	13:25
RobbieThe1st	MohammadAG51: Any idea -why- this might have happened?	13:25
RobbieThe1st	ilius: NP.	13:25
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SpeedEvil	Does reboot reboot immediately?	13:26
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: anything corrupting the files preventing tracker to start turns in to reboot	13:26
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RobbieThe1st	Well, yea, I know - but what caused the corruption in the first place?	13:26
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: what did you do before that?	13:27
SpeedEvil	Does reboot reboot immediateely?	13:27
RobbieThe1st	I -thought- reboot would reboot after making everything quit, do a sync, then close the FS properly.	13:27
ilius	oh i used reboot many times!!! i will never use it then	13:27
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: yes	13:27
SpeedEvil	Or does it take a large fraction of a minute	13:27
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: well, depends on tasks to stop as on any system	13:28
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RobbieThe1st	The same thing I did on the last 10 reboots that day; connect to usb, copy a couple files over, disconnect, open the terminal, copy those files to rootfs, reboot	13:28
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: it is not a reset button command	13:28
RobbieThe1st	I'd been doing that for a couple of months, literally, no issues.	13:28
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: that makes me think of sending reset button events is not a system call it is direct hardware at desktops	13:29
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: windows?	13:29
SpeedEvil	Yeah - if it's actually just immediately uncleanly rebooting the device, that can corrupt files.	13:29
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: afaik there is nothing like a software reset button	13:30
RobbieThe1st	chem\|st: ?	13:30
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: i killed several pendrives or the second and third not I killed but nvm, because of unplugging while in use	13:31
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chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: unsync device unplugged can cause trouble	13:32
chem\|st	windows or linux does not matter	13:32
chem\|st	even if you did not write to that file	13:32
RobbieThe1st	But wait... optfs isn't mountable	13:32
RobbieThe1st	myDocs was what I mounted via usb, and I unmounted it before unplugging the usb	13:33
RobbieThe1st	myDocs corruption... Yea, that'd be understandable. But OptFS corruption?	13:33
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chem\|st	where is optfs	13:33
SpeedEvil	If you actually power off while the MMC is in the process of a write, unexpected things can happen.	13:34
RobbieThe1st	/home, /etc/mmcblk0p2 and it's ext2	13:34
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: and it does not matter	13:34
SpeedEvil	I would not expect cross-filesystem corruption usually	13:34
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: I have corrupted /rootfs on my desktop every now and then after booting into windows	13:35
SpeedEvil	Just unplugging while writing to mydocs via USB should do nothing	13:35
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chem\|st	SpeedEvil: I do	13:35
SpeedEvil	It may corrupt the mydocs FS - sure.	13:35
SpeedEvil	But nothing else.	13:35
RobbieThe1st	I'm more wondering what (glitch) caused it? Is it some random glitch, or, like, reboot not unmounting disks before shutdown..?	13:35
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: as I jsut said ^^	13:36
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chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: oh that might be an issue, if the reboot does do something like locking partition table and you wrote it anyways	13:37
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: I don't see how.	13:37
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: I do not either, it is windows I expect anything but not that it touches an off limits filesystem without any reason	13:37
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chem\|st	SpeedEvil: and you don't know what any random stupid-head thought while coding handler exceptions for usb devices	13:38
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RobbieThe1st	Ok, so there's no real consensus on what caused it; I'll chalk it up to cosmic rays unless I see a repeat	13:40
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: If it can, it's clearly a bug.	13:40
ilius	RobbieThe1st: why backup-menu is still in extras-devel and doed not go to extras-testing?	13:40
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: that is - any external device write outside the allocated FS	13:40
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: MS Windows is a bug!	13:41
RobbieThe1st	ilius: If you check the topic, I've been adding extra features, improving the "surrounding" code and such every few days	13:41
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: that is quite irrelevant.	13:41
RobbieThe1st	I just uploaded a new version an hour ago	13:41
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: the issue is if windows can have any access to /home	13:41
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: absenting a bug on the n900 side, it can't.	13:41
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: true	13:42
RobbieThe1st	Next question: I'm running from a ramdisk, the rootfs, optfs and all other FS's are unmounted. I can use the g_file_storage module to provide USB access to the Optfs, MyDocs and SD card. Any way to use it to give access to the Rootfs?	13:42
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ilius	RobbieThe1st: at least one stable version should be exist in extra-testing	13:42
SpeedEvil	RobbieThe1st: Another issue might be if tracker will ever not shutdown cleanly if it happens to write from files.	13:42
SpeedEvil	RobbieThe1st: if it happens to be writing files.	13:42
SpeedEvil	RobbieThe1st: does it ever shutdown in an inconsistent state, leading to not being recoverable.	13:42
RobbieThe1st	ilius: Yes, it should, but I haven't been happy with it until about now. Things didn't -quite- work(non backup stuff almost always). If this version works out, it may very well go into extras-testing	13:43
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RobbieThe1st	SpeedEvil: Damn that stupid tracker!	13:43
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: I have no idea what could cause that but I know that windows does evil things to my ext partitions when I am not looking! funny is that I was not able to reboot from linux to windows or the way back for a long time, system crashed in both ways... windows bluescreened and linux panic'ed	13:44
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RobbieThe1st	chem\|st: That actually happened to me once - I had a linux install, a windows install... I used my windows install constantly, tried to boot up my linux install a month or two later and got kernel panic.	13:44
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fish_sticks	thanks guys.Mediatomb worked.streaming issues though.	13:45
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chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: I learned that both systems used to leave stuff in ram and that my motherboard does not flash it on reboot (feature!!!!)	13:47
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: this is irrelevant - windows does not have access to the /home/ block device. It is not able to access it at all when plugged in via USB unless you do something strange.	13:47
RobbieThe1st	Huh; so doing a cold-boot would fix the problem?	13:47
chem\|st	hibernate is another evil thing	13:47
RobbieThe1st	SpeedEvil: More than that, I'm using Linux on my desktop, -and- it's not even accessible there	13:48
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RobbieThe1st	Because it's mounted by maemo, for one	13:48
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: cold boot did fix it for my desktop	13:48
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: I know but it is the same hardware device	13:49
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: no, it's not.	13:49
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: Windows is not exposed to the hardware.	13:49
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: Windows is exposed to a fake block device that the linux kernel maps onto the real block device.	13:49
ilius	chem\|st: never mount linux important partitions in windows as rw	13:49
ilius	chem\|st: use ext2fsd in read-only	13:49
chem\|st	ok so where does windows get the partition table from?	13:50
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SpeedEvil	chem\|st: it's fake	13:50
chem\|st	ilius: never mounted my / to windows	13:50
RobbieThe1st	ilius: I'd say the same thing vice-versa; even though there -is- good write-support on Linux for NTFS, after a few months you will end up with a fragmented, un-defragmentable NTFS volume.	13:50
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: it is so fake that windows cannot write it?	13:51
RobbieThe1st	(Security descriptors get shoved after every file, and defrag won't move em)	13:51
SpeedEvil	Actually - no.	13:51
SpeedEvil	there is no filesystem	13:51
SpeedEvil	err	13:51
chem\|st	ilius: I mount a single patition with ext3 on both sides and thats it	13:51
SpeedEvil	there is no partition table	13:51
SpeedEvil	/dev/sdc is just a big floppy	13:52
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SpeedEvil	err	13:52
SpeedEvil	ok - nvm - I got a error	13:53
SpeedEvil	So I can't check	13:53
SpeedEvil	but fdisk -l /dev/whatever on the desktop when in mass storage mode.	13:53
SpeedEvil	It's not the real partition table	13:53
* ilius reboot for testing backup-menu		13:53
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RobbieThe1st	Keyboard open, mind	13:54
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: I know that it is an looped/extraced whatever	13:54
RobbieThe1st	Well, I've got to go. I'll talk to you guys tomorrow.	13:54
RobbieThe1st	Gees, I've been up for an hour more than I should. Talking to you guys is interesting, to say the least.	13:55
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SpeedEvil	:wave	13:56
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ilius	how ro run backup-manu (instead of booting) without connecting to PC?	14:18
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ilius	RobbieThe1st: how ro run backup-manu (instead of booting) without connecting to PC?	14:22
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ilius	# mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /card	15:13
ilius	mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /card failed: Invalid argument	15:13
ilius	what is this damn error?	15:13
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SpeedEvil	does /card exist	15:13
ilius	yes	15:13
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SpeedEvil	Is mmcblk1p1 listed in /proc/partitions?	15:14
ilius	yes	15:14
alterego	SpeedEvil: yes	15:14
alterego	oh wait, you're troubleshooting ;)	15:15
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ilius	~ping	15:17
infobot	~pong	15:17
SpeedEvil	ilius: You're sure it's a valid filesystem?	15:18
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ilius	SpeedEvil: backup-menu did mount it	15:19
ilius	SpeedEvil: and myself in linux pc	15:19
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SpeedEvil	Odd.	15:20
SpeedEvil	I see the same result, and am unsure why	15:20
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ilius	SpeedEvil: and the error is silly	15:21
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SpeedEvil	oh	15:21
SpeedEvil	I had to explicitly specify FS type	15:22
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SpeedEvil	mount /dev/... /card -t ext2 works fin	15:22
ilius	oh yes	15:22
ilius	mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /card -t vfat	15:23
ilius	works	15:23
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alterego	btw, this is probably the best command for normalized mount points: cat /proc/mounts \| awk '{print $1 " " $2}'	15:25
alterego	Though, you could replace cat /proc/mounts with just mount	15:26
alterego	but then you'd need $3 instead of $2	15:27
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ilius	alterego: thanks	15:30
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ilius	SpeedEvil: how you was using sd card?	15:34
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ilius	SpeedEvil: it says to me: memory card format unsupported	15:34
SpeedEvil	I wasn't really - it's only a gig - I had it setup as swap	15:35
ilius	SpeedEvil: hmmm	15:36
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X-Fade	Lol, listening to an mp3 stream over wifi with nokia charger attached uses more power than it charges.	15:40
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SpeedEvil	With the screen on?	15:42
ccooke	X-Fade: you probably have something installed that's eating CPU	15:42
SpeedEvil	I can believe that.	15:42
SpeedEvil	oh	15:42
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SpeedEvil	wall charger	15:42
SpeedEvil	shouldn't	15:42
SpeedEvil	USB - yes - with screen at brightest	15:42
ccooke	it's definitely possible to use more power than the wall charger supplies	15:42
SpeedEvil	sure you're on wifi not 3g?	15:42
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X-Fade	Yeah, weird. I listened to stream for a while the battery went down to 30%, connected charger and after an hour orso it is at 19%.	15:43
ccooke	(3.5G internet, providing access to the net for four laptops via wifi, while taking a picture every 15 seconds with the screen on, for instance.	15:43
lcuk	X-Fade, screen lit up like a christmas tree?	15:43
X-Fade	lcuk: Of course. I need to see the song titles :)	15:43
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lcuk	ie: turn brightness down or off if you arent using it :P	15:43
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lcuk	X-Fade, of course you might have other things happening	15:44
X-Fade	Well it is nice and hot.	15:44
lcuk	cos i run lots whilst in from usb only	15:44
korhojoa	huh	15:44
korhojoa	i had my phone plugged in overnight to charge	15:44
korhojoa	and i wondered why it was dead and empty in the morning	15:44
korhojoa	turns out that damn thumbnailer had pegged io and cpu at 100 again	15:45
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MohammadAG51	hmm, is the N900 aimed for 2010 or 2011?	15:47
Appiah	?	15:47
kerio	MohammadAG51: depends on how fast you throw it	15:48
MohammadAG51	err, N9	15:48
lcuk	what is the point in having a flux capacitor in hardware if theres no damned linux driver to use it \@/	15:48
GAN900	MohammadAG, 2011, now, apparently.	15:49
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GAN900	Nokia's continued competence with release targets continues to amaze.	15:49
kerio	2010 is not over yet!	15:49
ajf_	I'm looking on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php, but I can't see a UK version of PR 1.3.. has one been released yet?	15:49
MohammadAG51	GAN900, which quarter?	15:49
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MohammadAG51	ajf_, no, flash global	15:49
GAN900	MohammadAG, who knows.	15:50
GAN900	kerio, new CEO says it's a 2011 product.	15:50
kerio	what the hell does the CEO know about	15:50
GAN900	So, probably Q4	15:50
Appiah	money?	15:50
kerio	N9 != money	15:50
GAN900	Since we want to make sure all of the existing contributors are burnt out by the time we release.	15:51
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Appiah	N9 wont make any money for Nokia? oh my	15:51
kerio	the N9 isn't money	15:51
ajf_	thanks MohammadAG51, is there any important difference in the UK release	15:51
kerio	because it's a phone	15:51
GAN900	No dirty Maemo shit on our MeeGo.	15:51
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MohammadAG51	ajf_, nope, other than being a UK release	15:51
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MohammadAG51	GAN900, ha	15:52
kerio	GAN900: so meego is not going to use busybox? :DDDDDDDDDD	15:53
MohammadAG51	someone (or two) are thinking of getting an N900	15:53
GAN900	kerio, busybox has nothing to do with Maemo.	15:54
kerio	busybox is part of maemo and shit	15:54
kerio	it qualifies	15:54
alterego	I wonder if he really means that or thinks Harmatten is different	15:55
alterego	Harmattan even ..	15:55
kerio	i really mean that?	15:56
kerio	of course i do	15:56
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kerio	busybox is shit	15:56
_chun	Hi there; trying to get wireshark working on my n900. I've set wlan0 to monitor mode with iwconfig, but it doesn't seem to be picking up a lot of traffic ... any tips?#	15:57
GAN900	Harmattan has nothing to do with MeeGo!	15:57
alterego	GAN900: exactly, and isn't that the N9?	15:57
alterego	N910 then? :D	15:58
GAN900	Harmattan is completely new and unrelated to any previous efforts by Nokia or any other company.	15:58
alterego	It's built on maemo	15:58
GAN900	It's also a revolution	15:58
GAN900	Lies.	15:58
GAN900	Nokia is so suing you	15:58
alterego	Completely new ux based on Qt and MTF :P	15:58
GAN900	Also: Qt kernel.	15:59
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alterego	It's the OS Chuck Norris uses in his anal dildo range	15:59
kerio	Qt - reimplementing the implemented!	15:59
alterego	I tested my FFT implementation today using audacity to test frequency accuracy	16:00
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alterego	deafened my self in my left ear because my volume was on full and I had that head phone in.	16:00
alterego	On the plus side, I'm about 1hz out	16:01
GAN900	Ouch	16:01
Jartza	hmmh	16:01
Jartza	another strange thing	16:01
alterego	So I should be able to use that code to tune my guitar now ^.^	16:01
Jartza	my wifi-indicator keeps on "blinking" although wifi is connected and working fine	16:01
alterego	And I'll then use it to write my guitar tuner app :D	16:02
Jartza	only the indicator indicates that it's still "connecting"	16:02
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alterego	bbl	16:03
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[PG]Aex	Elo, anyone here?	16:15
tybollt	nope, noone here	16:16
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[PG]Aex	-.-	16:16
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[PG]Aex	Found this thingie "Java now available on the N900 via the icedTea6 version of OpenJDK(tm) in extras. Check your Application Manager for "icedTea6" to install." but can't find it in the app manager, got any clue why?	16:18
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chem\|st	kerio: if there is a N9 this year it wont get meego! so if n8 is the last nseries dev with symbian I am wondering what n9 would get if prepped for this year	16:19
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cehteh	android :P	16:19
cehteh	windows 7 mobile!	16:19
pw	yeah!	16:20
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GAN900	They're probably delaying so they can port Android.	16:21
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lcuk	i see you are in a wonderfully happy mood today GAN900. did local mcdonalds run out of happy meals?	16:22
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GAN900	MeeGo conference is just an excuse to round us all up. :P	16:23
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lardman\|home	afternoon all	16:23
psycho_oreos	not all of us, just the ones interested in meego development	16:23
chem\|st	GAN900: there will be bulk execution near the fence in dub...	16:23
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GAN900	chem\|st, nah, they're gonna make us write Symbian^4 apps Clockwork Orange-style.	16:24
[PG]Aex	So anyone else able to find this IcedTea6 in their app manager?	16:25
chem\|st	GAN900: no develop meego 1.2 in 4 days	16:25
chem\|st	to release n9 right after the brake	16:25
chem\|st	[PG]Aex: I do not even want to	16:25
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[PG]Aex	;< Need java	16:26
chem\|st	[PG]Aex: have you turned on devel testing or just extras?	16:26
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[PG]Aex	Whats that? (complete scrub)	16:27
chem\|st	[PG]Aex: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/icedtea6/	16:27
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khertan	Hello all !	16:28
chem\|st	[PG]Aex: would you mind to search for something? I entered icedtea and klicked ok button and the only search result was this package!	16:28
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[PG]Aex	Well found this "Java now available on the N900 via the icedTea6 version of OpenJDK(tm) in extras. Check your Application Manager for "icedTea6" to install. "	16:29
chem\|st	[PG]Aex: use your n900 to open the link and press the install button	16:29
[PG]Aex	so figure it'll be in there	16:29
[PG]Aex	but yeah, cheers mon	16:29
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MohammadAG	what's the best sound recording app?	16:31
chem\|st	[PG]Aex: go HAM->Download->All and start typing iced... and it will show up if you setup the maemo.org repositroy	16:31
chem\|st	MohammadAG: internal or mic?	16:31
[PG]Aex	yeah thats what i did but didn't show up, so went to my browser and entered the link you sent insted	16:31
[PG]Aex	so got it	16:31
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chem\|st	[PG]Aex: you did not have the aplication catalogue setup then I guess?	16:32
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[PG]Aex	If i go to catalogue's it says maemo.org is in there, so dno whats wrong	16:33
MohammadAG	chem\|st, internal mic :P	16:33
lardman\|home	is numpy in a repo somewhere?	16:34
chem\|st	MohammadAG: there is recorder and speech recorder	16:34
MohammadAG	what's the difference chem\|st ?	16:34
MohammadAG	lardman\|home, python-numpy?	16:34
lardman\|home	yep	16:34
GAN900	lardman\|home, when are you flying in?	16:34
lardman\|home	I'm not	16:34
chem\|st	MohammadAG: recaller is a freaking ram-leaking python widget and I do not recommend any python widgets yet	16:34
lardman\|home	GAN900: I doubt my passport will be back in time, plus am rather busy	16:35
lardman\|home	sorry!	16:35
GAN900	lardman\|home, not going?	16:35
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chem\|st	MohammadAG: dont know I use recorder so far just enough for easy to use	16:35
lardman\|home	MohammadAG: thanks for the correct name :)	16:35
lardman\|home	GAN900: no, I don't think so	16:36
GAN900	Damn	16:36
chem\|st	[PG]Aex: mmhkay	16:36
lardman\|home	GAN900: I had a meeting that day, so didn't apply for sponsorship and now my passport needs to go off to get a visa for India so I can't be sure I'll have it back in time anyway	16:36
MohammadAG	chem\|st, is the quality of recorder good?	16:36
lardman\|home	so my meeting is cancelled, but I don't think I'll be able to make it anyway	16:37
GAN900	Conference quality seems to be declining by the minute here. ;)	16:37
chem\|st	MohammadAG: 22kHz at 16bit mono and quality is good for speech recording	16:38
chem\|st	MohammadAG: output is wav,	16:39
MohammadAG	weird, N900 stuck in flashing mode	16:40
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chem\|st	MohammadAG: but I tried to record a song snippet and that did not go well	16:40
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MohammadAG	hmm	16:41
MohammadAG	I wonder if a USB mic works with the stock kernel drivers	16:41
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chem\|st	was to loud	16:41
MohammadAG	oh	16:41
MohammadAG	it's just speech, an interview	16:41
chem\|st	for that it is very good,	16:42
chem\|st	I think pointing the mic hole to something is not a good idea	16:42
chem\|st	but have it sitting on a table should be ok	16:42
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MohammadAG	excellent, just what I need	16:43
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lcuk	lardman\|home, \o oh hai	16:43
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lcuk	how long are you in india for?	16:43
chem\|st	MohammadAG: did your kbdVUmeter work?	16:43
lardman\|home	hi lcuk, only a week	16:44
MohammadAG	chem\|st, still haven't reached that level of programming :P	16:44
lardman\|home	lcuk: assuming I can get the correct letters, etc., together for the business visa	16:44
lcuk	MohammadAG, theres a few different people looking at audio processing	16:44
MohammadAG	lcuk, KotC and pupnik_ ?	16:44
lcuk	tie in what you know with keylights with one of the frequencies from alterego's fft or something :P	16:44
MohammadAG	fft?	16:45
lcuk	MohammadAG, i was thinking alterego since he has used qt which you are comfortable with	16:45
chem\|st	lcuk: who as I want to get PA controls and am close to port the gtk tools from debian if no lightning hits in	16:45
MohammadAG	I'm open to other languages really, C/C++'s syntax is easy	16:45
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MohammadAG	I thought it was a bit harder back in July	16:45
lcuk	MohammadAG, then talk with kot	16:46
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lcuk	should be simples	16:46
* MohammadAG needs gsleep in a separate package		16:46
MohammadAG	depending on coreutils-gnu is an overkill for one binary	16:46
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lardman\|home	are there any docs about specifically for debianising a python setup.py build/install type package?	16:49
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MohammadAG	python setup.py bdist_dumb?	16:50
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MohammadAG	or whatever it's called	16:50
MohammadAG	then use pypackager	16:50
lardman\|home	hmm	16:50
khertan	chem\|st, the problem isn't recorder but the python hildon destop launcher not well writted	16:50
lardman\|home	I'll do some looking, thanks MohammadAG	16:50
lcuk	written *	16:50
MohammadAG	http://wiki.maemo.org/PyPackager	16:50
khertan	or python setup.py bdist_maemo	16:50
khertan	^ but it s an unfinished tool	16:51
khertan	thanks for correction lcuk	16:51
khertan	lardman\|home, http://khertan.net/articles/maemo/pypackager_howto	16:51
lardman\|home	I need to distribute the source too	16:52
lardman\|home	and it's not just a python package, it's also C++	16:52
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khertan	arg	16:52
khertan	so i ll not suggest any of my tools :)	16:53
lcuk	lardman\|home, you could use a simple debian/ folder template and run the python bits you need from inside it	16:53
lcuk	just as simple script format	16:53
lardman\|home	lcuk: yeah, I was just wondering if that stuff was documented somewhere?	16:53
lardman\|home	I suppose I could do that dh_make business to generate empty files	16:53
MohammadAG	lardman\|home, normal debian packaging	16:53
lardman\|home	MohammadAG: yeah, nasty stuff ;)	16:53
MohammadAG	it's easier than python :P	16:54
khertan	lardman, there is also : http://pypi.python.org/pypi/stdeb	16:54
lcuk	lardman\|home, yeah - i just used a minimal subset with the optify boottime stuff and tried to keep it as simple as possible	16:54
lcuk	http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/trees/master/debian	16:54
khertan	MohammadAG, lol	16:54
chem\|st	khertan: yes and no python does not properly free ram even if you tell to	16:55
MohammadAG	khertan, btw, instead of using cp in debian rules, why not switch to a debian/install file and use dh_install	16:55
MohammadAG	suggestion for PyPackager ^	16:55
khertan	chem\|st, it does if you know how to use python properly	16:56
khertan	MohammadAG, dh_install cannot be test on device :)	16:56
MohammadAG	ah, makes sense	16:56
chem\|st	khertan: then most ppl dont know how ;)	16:56
khertan	chem\|st, exactly :)	16:57
chem\|st	khertan: freakshow!	16:57
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khertan	chem\|st, what does it means ?	16:58
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chem\|st	khertan: not only the desktop widgets eat ram, also all python programs left in background	16:58
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lardman\|home	hmm, looking at how python-numpy is built was a mistake	16:58
chem\|st	khertan: all I tried, I make a large curve around python	16:59
kerio	python <3	16:59
pupnik_	heh chem\|st - that's a german expression	16:59
khertan	chem\|st, every program let in background eat ram ... but when i see khteditor, with about 20 windows containing source code use less than 7% of ram on my n900	16:59
chem\|st	pupnik_: I know I dont know the english equi to it	16:59
pupnik_	'I avoid python' :)	16:59
khertan	chem\|st, i didn't notice difference with other program made with c++	16:59
chem\|st	pupnik_: ty	17:00
ieatlint	anyone have any idea why the icon associated with .desktop file (as packaged/deployed by a .deb) would display in scratchbox but not on the phone itself?	17:00
khertan	and when i see khweeteur running on windows also it s funny :)	17:00
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chem\|st	pupnik_: then I know the expression but did not come to mind	17:00
pupnik_	chem\|st: np! it's just fun when you can figure out someone's native language from such things! :)	17:00
chem\|st	khertan: eat in terms of leak	17:01
khertan	i didn't notice any	17:01
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khertan	you know ... most of the program leaking memory aren't python on n900	17:01
chem\|st	pupnik_: german is not my native language but I live in germany	17:01
lardman\|home	ah setup.py install can take a --root parameters, that's nice	17:02
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chem\|st	khertan: nvm I am not that into it but experienced some issues with "one" widget and some programs	17:03
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khertan	chem\|st, every python widget will leak memory due to the hildon python launcher so avoid them on n900 :)	17:06
khertan	and if a python program leak memory warn his author it should not happen	17:06
MohammadAG	hmm	17:06
MohammadAG	conversations app no longer saving logs	17:06
khertan	the author probably badly write some things	17:06
chem\|st	khertan: someone else did that already ;)	17:06
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lcuk	khertan, bug number?	17:07
lcuk	for the always leaking statement, thats pretty wild	17:07
khertan	lcuk, lol	17:07
lcuk	i am serious. making such a wide reaching statement without some kind of backup is poor form	17:07
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khertan	lcuk, ask to every python developper which try to made a python widget	17:08
chem\|st	khertan: lcuk is right the only app I recognized doing that was recaller and that was noticable within hours	17:08
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khertan	chem\|st, i got same problem with homeip, homefreemem	17:09
lcuk	khertan, i am asking you specifically since you made the claim. wheres the bug report after you noticed it and discussed with others	17:09
khertan	which i never release	17:09
khertan	lcuk, yep i looking for it ... i submit it a years ago :)	17:09
lcuk	ta	17:09
chem\|st	BUT lcuk a nokian guy told me about it as known issue with python-loader	17:09
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chem\|st	that was in the hildon-home bug comments somewhere	17:10
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chem\|st	with stating that this is no hildon-home bug but third party	17:10
lcuk	chem\|st, sure, and having something documented to point python devs towards to make sure they do not also fall into the trap is good	17:11
khertan	lcuk : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8586	17:11
povbot`	Bug 8586: hildon-desktop-python-loader does not work after installation, until device is rebooted	17:11
lardman\|home	ahh, this really is one of the things I hate about coding for the N900 - the sheer amount of effort one has to go to creating deps before you can actually get on with the main application	17:11
lardman\|home	but c'est la vie	17:11
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khertan	the wrong one	17:11
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corecode	hola	17:12
chem\|st	lcuk: they told as known	17:12
chem\|st	lcuk: I did not bother	17:12
corecode	is there a solution to the system becoming quite unresponsive when connecting to the internet?	17:12
corecode	somehow apt sometimes starts running	17:13
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corecode	and eats all my responsiveness	17:13
chem\|st	lcuk: and people writing scripts to "optimize" where they use "killall" on hildon-* stuff will lose my attention quiet fast!	17:13
khertan	lcuk, anyway last time i submit something about python loader I was told to fuck off	17:13
khertan	corecode, or maybe an app that connect and retrieve data	17:14
chem\|st	corecode: its not apt.. its apt-worker?! and that is updating your sources cache	17:14
corecode	yea	17:14
corecode	right	17:14
chem\|st	corecode: answer enough?	17:14
corecode	but still makes my system unresponsive for some mintues	17:14
corecode	no	17:14
corecode	the question was: is there a solution to that	17:14
lcuk	khertan, bugs.maemo.org only has 4 bugs with the phrase fuck off in them.	17:14
chem\|st	corecode: you want a solution?!	17:14
lcuk	none of htem are related to python	17:14
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chem\|st	set the update interval to something within years instead (value is minutes not seconds btw)... gconf	17:15
lardman\|home	hmm, interesting language for a bug report, /me goes to search bugs.maemo.org	17:15
corecode	chem\|st: yes, i don't want my phone to be unresponsive so that i can't even tak a call	17:15
corecode	i wonder why it doesn't nice itself	17:16
khertan	lcuk, hey english isn't my native language the term wasn't exactly fuck off, it was an year ago and i didn't remember it well	17:16
khertan	this is like the diablo loader	17:16
chem\|st	corecode: I don't know about nicing apt-worker but if you find out tell me ;)	17:16
* lardman\|home considers beer		17:16
khertan	it was leaking memory on diablo	17:16
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chem\|st	lardman\|home: good idea... putting it on my shopping list	17:17
khertan	and this is why i ve made my own patch and distribute it before the pymaemo team take the project and fixes memory leaks	17:17
khertan	(and their patch was better than mine)	17:17
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khertan	lcuk, if you look you ll not see any bug report on bugzilla from me since a long time	17:18
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BCMM	there seem to be two versions of freeciv for maemo; one being an unmodified package of the SDL client, the other being a hildonied version of the gtk client	17:19
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BCMM	i can't see how to use the latter, though	17:20
BCMM	anyone had any success? for me, it just shows the UI for starting a new game for a moment, then shows the freeciv logo	17:21
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lardman\|home	bbl	17:22
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chem\|st	alterego: are you capable of getting pulse to act as rtp/multicast receiver and/or sender and have interest?	17:24
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pupnik_	C Programming: Large Arrays - Malloc or Declare? http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t317924-large-arrays-malloc-or-just-declare.html	17:44
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dreamer	hmm, url's from the terminal don't open in the default browser anymore	17:59
dreamer	iirc I switched to a diff default browser once and now they don't open	17:59
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luke-jr_	pupnik_: dumb question?	18:01
pupnik_	luke-jr_: if the answer is apparent then don't bother clicking	18:04
pupnik_	if the answer isn't apparent, then a person might benefit from clicking	18:04
pupnik_	agree?	18:04
khertan	X-Fade, can i disturb you and ask you to look at khweeteur-experimental package, it seems to be blocked in the auto builder queue. Thx	18:05
khertan	:)	18:05
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khertan	someone have try ff 4.0b2 on maemo ?	18:06
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pupnik_	http://www.phonearena.com/image.php?m=Reviews.Images&f=name&id=69459&caption=The+Samsung+Reality+U820+feels+comfortable+due+to+its+size+and+rounded+edges&title=Image+from+%22Samsung+Reality+U820+Review%22&popup=1 << very nice 4-row keyboard with a good complement of symbols. Note the dual d-pad styling of the arrows and awsdz keys.	18:06
dreamer	khertan: yup, just got an update yesterday actuallt and was just abot tot try iy :D	18:07
dreamer	khertan: but it's def still beta ;)	18:07
khertan	pupnik_, the look is pretty good, but i still miss a grosser display	18:08
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MohammadAG	hmm, I wonder why packages get locked in the queue	18:08
* khertan like the n810 form factor		18:08
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khertan	MohammadAG, probably because they are corrupted	18:08
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pupnik_	me too khertan - very nice 4 row keyboard, boring korean styling	18:09
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khertan	pupnik_, most of the for programming symbol use in python have an easy access	18:10
khertan	[]{} like the keyboard	18:10
khertan	but the key seems to be a bit small	18:10
khertan	the menu icon is funny	18:11
khertan	it s look like the maemo4 applications icons	18:11
khertan	s/s/	18:11
pupnik_	well does samsung release kernel drivers for that stuff?	18:11
pupnik_	can we boot maemo on it?	18:11
pupnik_	linux still doesn't enjoy the situation it has on PCs - meaning you can install it on a variety of hardware	18:12
pupnik_	we're still chained to things like meego, bada	18:12
pupnik_	android (spit)	18:12
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khertan	pupnik_, hum ... it s not the care bear world !	18:14
khertan	even on desktop we still have many closed drivers	18:14
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khertan	and you must choose your hardware depending on which os you want to run	18:15
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pupnik_	khertan: true. but this is in my opinion a failure of maemo	18:16
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pupnik_	nobody else ever picked it up	18:16
MohammadAG	MeeGo wins here	18:16
khertan	MohammadAG, or not	18:16
MohammadAG	two HTC devices already booted it up	18:16
MohammadAG	a nexus and a desire	18:17
pupnik_	excellent	18:17
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tripzero	what's a failure of meego?	18:19
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MohammadAG	ahem	18:20
* MohammadAG goes into troll mode		18:20
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MohammadAG	RPM!!1!!!1!	18:20
khertan	tripzero, none for the moment as there isn't any end user release	18:21
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khertan	only time will say if it s a failure or not :)	18:21
tripzero	lol	18:21
tripzero	isn't debian packaging the meego stuff?	18:21
khertan	but ... one failure for Meego Netbook UX is that you can't upgrade from 1.0 to 1.1	18:21
tripzero	so one could in theory make the distro deb package based?	18:21
khertan	without reinstalling	18:21
tripzero	heh	18:21
tripzero	does it break if you add the 1.1 repos?	18:22
khertan	i think we feel the power of rpm here	18:22
khertan	:)	18:22
* tripzero needs to update his wife's netbook?		18:22
khertan	<tripzero> does it break if you add the 1.1 repos? << yep :)	18:22
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tripzero	ew	18:22
tripzero	hrm	18:22
* khertan will install a debian instead of updating meego		18:22
tripzero	if only ubuntu hadn't stopped making a meego respin	18:22
tripzero	:(	18:22
lcuk	khertan, prototype upgrade instructions are available	18:23
lcuk	and should be testable	18:23
lcuk	lemme find the link	18:23
* MohammadAG makes DebiaGo		18:23
MohammadAG	doesn't sound cool enough	18:23
javispedro	DevilGo	18:23
javispedro	morning, btw.	18:23
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khertan	lcuk, oh great news ! thnks	18:23
MohammadAG	morning javispedro	18:24
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MohammadAG	don't you just love how tmo implodes when a female posts... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65055	18:24
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javispedro	chances are, it's a he either way.	18:25
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lcuk	khertan, http://wiki.meego.com/Upgrading_MeeGo_Versions	18:26
lcuk	read, review, discuss (on #meego) test, compare, modify and see if it works	18:26
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khertan	:)	18:27
javispedro	aha, Apple dumps Xserve and Ubuntu dumps the X server	18:27
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MohammadAG	javispedro, I've seen shes with an N900	18:28
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javispedro	MohammadAG: me too.	18:28
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javispedro	so, what.	18:28
MohammadAG	I'm just saying, it's not a male only device :P	18:29
javispedro	so, would you open a post with your hair color as subject to ask for help?	18:29
MohammadAG	no, I'd open a post with "porn" in the title and a "you suck" in the body :P	18:30
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crashanddie_	MohammadAG, is that some kind of self-inflicted mind porn?	18:34
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MohammadAG	no, it's a perverts test, just count the views	18:35
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* GAN900 facepalms.		18:36
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crashanddie_	"Mexican sales of Ford's Lobo pick-up, popular with drug cartel hitmen, are falling along with those of similar vehicles because motorists fear being mistaken for gangsters by soldiers and police, the head of the U.S. automaker's local subsidiary said on Thursday."	18:38
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crashanddie_	I wouldn't buy a car called "Lobo" in the first place	18:39
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crashanddie_	or maybe just to pimp it to "Loco"	18:40
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crashanddie_	kimitake_idle, you can deactivate that script right away. Or get banned. Your choice, really.	18:40
crashanddie_	Anyway, off to weekend. Later all	18:40
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crashanddie_	"Dogs that do not tolerate small children well are the St. Bernard, the Old English sheepdog, the Alaskan malamute, the bull terrier, and the toy poodle. So now you know what to get your obnoxious nephew as a pet."	18:46
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javispedro	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Malamute_pup.JPG	18:47
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RST38h	javispedro: Ah! Puppies!	18:49
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javispedro	children-hating puppies!	18:50
RST38h	dachsunds are also not exactly children loving critters	18:50
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MohammadAG	woah, this made my hildon-desktop awesome! http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=859494&postcount=4	18:52
javispedro	...............................	18:52
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javispedro	you know that file's only purpose is to set that setting to 0.	18:53
MohammadAG	why isn't it set to 1 by default?	18:53
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MohammadAG	as I said, why?	18:54
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javispedro	"hildon-desktop animations are not linear" without it.	18:54
MohammadAG	what does that mean?	18:55
javispedro	nokia words, not mine.	18:55
MohammadAG	funny, the desktop is a lot smoother with it	18:58
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Shapeshifter	what does it do?	18:59
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* javispedro disagrees		19:00
MohammadAG	I see	19:00
javispedro	MohammadAG: what it means is obvious now: "linear" in time	19:00
MohammadAG	if blur is enabled, it's shitty	19:00
GAN900	Winter comes to Florida	19:01
RST38h	javispedro: <facepalm>	19:01
javispedro	without it, frames do not seem to be evenly spaced in time	19:01
RST38h	GAN: Rain? =)	19:01
MohammadAG	yeah, I can see that	19:01
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javispedro	makes for an iphony effect fwiw (Apple tends to overuse non linearity in animations...)	19:02
* javispedro hates it		19:02
* RST38h does not see any difference, desktpo behaves the same		19:03
MohammadAG	restart the desktop	19:03
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RST38h	done	19:04
javispedro	RST38h: you can also just rename it out of the way	19:04
RST38h	rename what? hildon-desktop???	19:04
MohammadAG	no, the file	19:04
javispedro	hildon-desktop.ini	19:04
MohammadAG	so it's set to 1 by default, but that file sets it to 0	19:04
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javispedro	the default is UseHWSync=1 since PR1.2 iirc	19:04
RST38h	hm	19:05
MohammadAG	was 0 here	19:05
javispedro	MohammadAG: I mean the driver default	19:05
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MohammadAG	oh	19:05
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Gorroth	hmm, i dont know if that setting made my desktop faster	19:06
javispedro	that file is only overriding it	19:06
javispedro	(and I guess it was introduced when the default was changed...)	19:06
Gorroth	the powervr hildon setting	19:06
MohammadAG	restart the desktop	19:06
Gorroth	i restarted the phone	19:07
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: how	19:07
Gorroth	i dont know if it is faster though	19:07
MohammadAG	killall hildon-desktop would be one way	19:08
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MohammadAG	though that sometimes messes up rotations till you reboot	19:08
GAN900	RST38h, nah, winter is dry season.	19:08
GAN900	RST38h, highs in the mid 60s. :D	19:08
MohammadAG	it's slower when you have blurring neabled	19:08
MohammadAG	enabled even	19:08
Gorroth	how do i know if i have blurring and how do i turn it off	19:08
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MohammadAG	you see a blurred background when you open the menu	19:09
Gorroth	oh. i have that	19:09
MohammadAG	edit transitions.ini and set radius and radius_more from 16/12 to 0	19:09
Shapeshifter	whoa	19:09
Shapeshifter	this effect is huge	19:09
MohammadAG	/usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini	19:09
Shapeshifter	it looks a bit weird though	19:09
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Gorroth	MohammadAG: where do i place that file? in /etc/hildon-desktop?	19:13
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MohammadAG	err, no, just save what you edited	19:14
Gorroth	ok	19:14
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Gorroth	change all instance of radius/radius_more?	19:14
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MohammadAG	there should be only one instance of both	19:16
MohammadAG	in [home]	19:16
Gorroth	there are two for radius	19:16
Gorroth	one under home	19:16
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MohammadAG	change only the ones under [home]	19:17
Gorroth	the other under launcher_glow	19:17
Gorroth	ok	19:17
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Gorroth	let me reboot and see if that helps	19:18
Gorroth	killall hildson-desktop didnt make it faster, and i still see blurring	19:18
fcrochik	I just got back from	19:20
RST38h	GAN: Oh, the ocean has become unswimmable =)	19:20
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fcrochik	.... oops... new keyboard.... just got back from qt dev days and I am wondering if anybody here tried mixing qml with qt on maemo5... any comments?	19:20
Gorroth	hmm, i guess either it doesnt work for me or the speed isnt faster than efore i did all this	19:21
GAN900	RST38h, not for another few weeks.	19:21
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MohammadAG	or you're doing it wrong	19:21
GAN900	RST38h, water temp in Tampa Bay is still in the low 80s.	19:21
Gorroth	MohammadAG: doubtful. it is just a couple files...	19:22
Gorroth	not brain surgery	19:22
lcuk	fcrochik, speak with alterego or even konttori, both dabble with qml quite extensively	19:22
MohammadAG	changes to transitions.ini should be instant, at least for radius and radius_more	19:22
MohammadAG	lcuk, fcrochik I think Jaffa does too	19:23
Gorroth	well, changing those settings dont make it crazy fast or anything	19:23
javispedro	http://meego.gitorious.org/ , so, what does Nokia do when gitorious is down?	19:23
* javispedro should have chosen github, really.		19:23
MohammadAG	javispedro, meditate	19:24
javispedro	http://www.varnish-cache.org/ -- varnish makes websites fly.... to somewhere outside earth! </lame>	19:24
* lardman\|home crosses his fingers that matplotlib will build		19:24
lardman\|home	hmm, failure!	19:25
pupnik_	javispedro: i see that dosbox offers heavy debug mode -- "This guide explains how to activate the DOSBOX debugger and use the various commands it offers" http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=3944	19:25
Gorroth	sweet. turning the WSEGL_UseHWSync back to 0 works	19:25
javispedro	pupnik_: I guess that will only work with the interpreter	19:25
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pupnik_	javispedro: yes cpu must be 'normal' i think (or was it simple?) http://kannan.jumbledthoughts.com/index.php/howto-use-dosbox-as-a-quick-dirty-disassembler/	19:27
lardman\|home	hmm, quite remarkable, it seems to have worked	19:27
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javispedro	pupnik_: normal iirc :)	19:27
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pupnik_	you're normal, i'm simple - is that it?	19:28
pupnik_	;) anyway it looks like we could make a map of the instructions that something like daggerfall uses	19:28
pupnik_	using the LOG function...	19:28
pupnik_	find what it is spending its time doing rasterizing the game data	19:29
javispedro	probably. doesn't it have a disassembler?	19:29
pupnik_	then ... ??? ... profit	19:29
RST38h	Dell's announced all 25,000 employees will be given Dell Venue Pros running WP7 in exchange for their BlackBerrys, but they're also offering a new service to their clients for help switching from BlackBerry.	19:29
pupnik_	maybe watch for writes to vga mem	19:29
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pupnik_	RST38h: you think it might be likely one could statically recompile some innerloop in say, Daggerfall or Arena	19:30
pupnik_	or am i imagining things	19:30
javispedro	pupnik_: oh, I see what you're trying to do there.	19:31
javispedro	that's called HLE btw.	19:31
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: could you please paste your transitions.ini. stuff looks weird here	19:31
RST38h	pupnik: yes, it is possible	19:31
tripzero	is wp7 any good?	19:31
RST38h	pupnik: does not mean easy though	19:31
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, http://pastebin.com/KKz8bf4N	19:32
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: thanks	19:32
jacekowski	fucking fuck	19:33
jacekowski	http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/news/colchester_town_gypsy_site_is_given_the_go_ahead_1_718561	19:33
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RST38h	Canonical and Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth has announced that Ubuntu will move away from the traditional X.org display environment to Wayland a more modern alternative.	19:35
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jacekowski	and they break api again	19:35
MohammadAG	<RST38h> -Canonical and Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth has announced that Ubuntu will move away from the traditional X.org display environment to Wayland a more modern alternative.	19:36
MohammadAG	WHAT THE FUCK?	19:36
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javispedro	hehe	19:36
RST38h	Mohammad:The fuck.	19:36
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jacekowski	yeah, they decided to break api again	19:36
javispedro	saw it a few minutes ago	19:36
jacekowski	and abi	19:36
javispedro	jacekowski: they'll fail	19:36
jacekowski	so nvidia drivers will stop working	19:37
jacekowski	ati drivers will stop working	19:37
jacekowski	stuff will break	19:37
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MohammadAG	users will break - away	19:37
javispedro	jacekowski: all of this new stuff... they even rolled unity with its top global menu bar even without hacking patching Firefox to support it.	19:37
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Gorroth	who cares what display manager ubuntu uses? it's all nerd turf wars	19:38
Shapeshifter	indeed	19:38
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MohammadAG	I care	19:38
Gorroth	that is cool	19:39
javispedro	Gorroth: you need more Jobs brainwashing if you as a consumer don't care.	19:39
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javispedro	a few minutes near the Reality Distortion Field and you'll start cheering for ubernerd stuff such as ... a new CoreAnimation API! WhohoooO!!!	19:39
Gorroth	actually i use lots of apple products. and truth be told, users dont care	19:41
Gorroth	nerd turf wars	19:41
RST38h	javispedro: insanity is finally starting to chew away at Ubuntu engineers	19:42
* lardman\|home moans about Ubuntu's deprecation of xinerama		19:42
zokier	it's just defaults. it's not like canonical is preventing you from installing xorg or your favourite wm if you wish to do so	19:42
lardman\|home	not to mention needing to patch the xserver to get Qt apps to not crash it	19:42
RST38h	But, I mean, removing X from Linux???	19:42
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zokier	X was never in linux	19:43
Chewtoy	X is not really needed, if you know how to use a terminal.	19:43
RST38h	[for Wikipedians] When saying Linux, I do notmean the kernel.I mean the whole OS.	19:43
RST38h	As in "FreeBSD", you know. Or "NetBSD". Or, awww, "Windows"	19:44
Chewtoy	What distro are you thinking about then?	19:44
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RST38h	Chewtoy: Any semiusable distro - Ubuntu, SuSE, Redhat, Debian	19:45
Gorroth	ubuntu ditched X in their server ersion. are you mad about that too?	19:45
RST38h	Am I mad about Ubuntu ditching it in the desktop version?	19:46
Chewtoy	Why the hell would you want X on a server?	19:46
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javispedro	Gorroth: do you have stock in Wayland and/or RedHat?	19:46
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Gorroth	exactly. this is just a bunch of nerd turf wars. you guys just dont like change i think	19:46
* RST38h sighs at Gorroth		19:47
RST38h	Ok, just to provide some entertainment tonight, I will explain why	19:47
* javispedro grabs comfortable chair and popcorn		19:47
RST38h	Gorroth: You see, there exists a lot of packaged software for Linux already, or, to make it clear for you, for Ubuntu Linux	19:47
MohammadAG	<Gorroth> +ubuntu ditched X in their server ersion. are you mad about that too?	19:48
MohammadAG	server versions of OSs don't usually need anything more than a terminal	19:48
RST38h	Gorroth: Most of that software (command line and server tools excluded) depends on the X11 server to communicate with the user	19:48
MohammadAG	since... you know, they're usually accessed over ssh	19:48
RST38h	Gorroth: Are you with me, Apple boy?	19:48
RST38h	Gorroth: Sooo, once you ditch X11 server, all the above packages will brake. You won'tbe able to use them any more. Capische?	19:49
tripzero	i don't think ubuntu ever had a server version with X	19:49
Gorroth	MohammadAG: exactly my point. now, if you dont like the ubuntu change, im sure you can find a distro that works for you	19:49
Gorroth	life didnt end	19:49
MohammadAG	you're missing the points	19:50
Gorroth	RST38h: im not talking to you. you are in love with ad hominem	19:50
RST38h	Gorroth: So, yes, as an ordinary Ubuntu user I do care if the software I amcurrently using still works on the next Ubuntu	19:50
MohammadAG	servers don't have a desktop manager	19:50
tripzero	and if ubuntu did have a server version with X it was probably pre 5.10 (before i started using it)	19:50
lardman\|home	no, but those using the new Ubuntu won't be able to do much of anything with no apps	19:50
zokier	RST38h, are you familiar with wayland in any way?	19:50
RST38h	javispedro: Heh, told you, those lemmings tear easily...	19:50
tripzero	don't like ubuntu server edition? install desktop and stfu	19:50
RST38h	zokier: No	19:50
tripzero	;P	19:50
tripzero	apt-get your way to glory	19:50
zokier	RST38h, look at the last picture at http://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html	19:51
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RST38h	zokier: And, as an ordinary user, not eager to get familiar with yet another piece of infrastructure.	19:51
MohammadAG	let's just put it this way	19:51
chem\|st	tripzero: apt-get install 10000000eur	19:51
MohammadAG	QtBrowser: cannot connect to X server :2	19:51
MohammadAG	that'll be happening a lot ^	19:51
lardman\|home	zokier: interesting	19:52
zokier	RST38h, no, but you might be interested that transitioning to wayland does not mean that X11-dependand apps will break	19:52
pupnik_	hello, segfault my old friend	19:52
pupnik_	i've come to work round you again	19:52
javispedro	zokier: so sure about that. copy paste between wayland and x clients? check. drag and drop? check.	19:53
tripzero	SIGSEGV!	19:53
javispedro	window properties? check.	19:53
RST38h	zokier: Well, that page of yours shows running X11 on top of wayland	19:53
javispedro	XEmbed? check.	19:53
javispedro	they will break _everything_.	19:53
RST38h	zokier: So, from engineering point of view, what we have there is exposing compositor directly to the apps	19:53
javispedro	X11 is (fortunately or not, depends on who you ask) something more than a big framebuffer device.	19:54
pupnik_	javispedro: is there any automated HLE that does dynamic -> static recompilation for particular executeables?	19:54
RST38h	zokier: You still have a choice of either 1) running X11 on top of wayland (i.e. X11 stays) and 2) not running X11 (i.e. compatibility killed)	19:54
javispedro	pupnik_: full static recompilation is not HLE. "Detecting" usual rendering function and using native versions (or GPU) is.	19:55
RST38h	zokier: and no, I am not interested in the compositor and "all the cool things one can do with it". Just want my current apps to work.	19:55
javispedro	pupnik_: pandora had some full x86 static recompiler work btw	19:55
javispedro	pupnik_: aiui they even got some games to work...	19:56
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lardman\|home	hmm, how is it that armel python2.5-dateutil exists but i386 python2.5-dateutil does not. thereby breaking my build?	19:56
juk	gitorious down, any news?	19:57
javispedro	lardman\|home: packager forgot? =)	19:57
pupnik_	javispedro: i guess that's the place to discuss some kind of x86 hacking of daggerfall/arena	19:57
lardman\|home	I didn't think you could just select one target?	19:57
javispedro	lardman\|home: you can, "Architecture: armel" in control file for ex.	19:57
pupnik_	javispedro: cause unless some of that rendering isn't converted to optimized arm, those games will never run fast on dosbox - imo	19:57
lardman\|home	ah ok	19:57
chem\|st	javispedro: X11 is not a huge FBdevice?	19:57
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juk	guys on #gitorious can't access it too, so not only me	19:58
javispedro	chem\|st: "not only" a huge FBdevice.	19:58
lardman\|home	javispedro: is it possible to determine depends using an && operation to tell whether it's 386 or armel?	19:58
WakiMiko	quick question: how can i see my dns servers? resolv.conf only contains 127.0.0.1	19:59
javispedro	lardman\|home: yes, but it's a different operator, lemme look it up	19:59
lardman\|home	thanks	19:59
chem\|st	javispedro: what else is it?	19:59
lcuk	lardman\|home, https://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/master/src/Makefile#L12	19:59
chem\|st	javispedro: it is a huge xinput device too	19:59
chem\|st	javispedro: cannot come up with more atm	20:00
javispedro	chem\|st: see my own checklist above	20:00
lcuk	https://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/master/debian/control#L4	20:00
lcuk	, libosso-dev [!i386],	20:01
javispedro	lardman\|home: Depends: foo [i386], bar [amd64]	20:01
javispedro	lcuk: argh :). thanks!	20:01
WakiMiko	anyone?	20:01
lcuk	javispedro, :D	20:01
chem\|st	xembed?	20:01
MohammadAG	zip2.32-1maemo2user/tools168 <-- how do I pipe this with awk?	20:01
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juk	MohammadAG: any reasons why gitorious down?	20:02
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lardman\|home	javispedro: thanks	20:02
MohammadAG	why are you asking me? :\|	20:03
javispedro	juk: Gitorious down is the reason I'm here wasting everybody's time instead of silently coding =)	20:03
MohammadAG	err	20:03
MohammadAG	zip2.32-1maemo2user/tools168 <-- how do I pipe this with awk to get the first part only	20:03
SpeedEvil	ou mean you want the 'zip'	20:04
javispedro	use cut?	20:04
SpeedEvil	awk '{print $1}	20:04
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SpeedEvil	Or awk '$0=$1' if you want to confuse people	20:04
juk	MohammadAG: what are you doing?	20:04
javispedro	MohammadAG: you should be fixing Gitorious!	20:05
* MohammadAG is confused		20:05
MohammadAG	thanks SpeedEvil	20:05
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GAN900	javispedro, you need a secondary hobby, clearly.	20:06
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lardman\|home	so is the arm target known as [armel] ?	20:06
javispedro	yep	20:06
lardman\|home	wunderbar, thanks	20:07
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lardman\|home	hmm, I see I just won the lottery	20:08
lardman\|home	a whole £9.50	20:08
* lardman\|home heads to claim winnings and spend it on vino		20:09
WakiMiko	how can i see which dns servers my n900 is using? resolv.conf only contains 127.0.0.1	20:09
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lcuk	MohammadAG, you can try and give lardman a wine voucher :P	20:09
lcuk	he has more use for it than me	20:09
lardman\|home	lcuk: it's been a long week! ;)	20:10
MohammadAG	lcuk, forward it to him :)	20:10
lardman\|home	continually uploading the 12Mb matplotlob tarball is getting tedious now	20:10
juk	WakiMiko: probably it is	20:10
WakiMiko	how do i resolve things then?	20:11
juk	WakiMiko: add your ISPs	20:11
WakiMiko	but i already can resolve hostnames	20:12
WakiMiko	where does it get them from?	20:12
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juk	WakiMiko: did you restart networking?	20:13
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WakiMiko	i connected to my wlan, i get a ip from my dhcp server, but it seems to ignore the dns servers	20:14
zokier	WakiMiko, look at /etc/dnsmasq.conf	20:15
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DocScrutinizer51	HELL! once again every single pkg in repo is incompatible to PR1.2 :-(((	20:16
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steinex	DocScrutinizer51: why don't you upgrade?	20:16
DocScrutinizer51	just because	20:17
WakiMiko	zokier: thanks. the file referenced in dnsmasq (var/run/resolv.conf.wlan0) contains the right dns servers, but the n900 doesnt appear to be using them	20:18
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DocScrutinizer51	or, on a more detailed philosophical explanation: I HATE being forced	20:18
RST38h	Doc: You mean, evil Nokia is forcing you to upgrade to pr1.3?	20:19
javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: what?	20:19
javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: which package?	20:19
DocScrutinizer51	e.g. Fahrplan	20:19
juk	WakiMiko: why?	20:19
DocScrutinizer51	mbarcode	20:19
javispedro	python... sigh.	20:20
DocScrutinizer51	yes	20:20
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zokier	WakiMiko, maybe it has cached the results so it seems that it's not using current servers?	20:20
DocScrutinizer51	I bet fahrplan is NOT reliant on any pr1.3 things	20:21
RST38h	javispedro: I am running into Python haters all the time lately BTW	20:21
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WakiMiko	well it cant resolve any of the names on my lan	20:21
RST38h	javispedro: Imaging having to defend Python when you do not even like it! :)	20:21
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: python and qt -- killer combination for dependency generation.	20:22
DocScrutinizer51	:-S	20:22
RST38h	s/Imaging/Imagine	20:22
javispedro	RST38h: heh :)	20:23
zokier	binary packages and multiple versions in general are bit problematic	20:23
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zokier	selecting the pre-pr1.3 versions of packages should work	20:24
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RST38h	BTW, could someone tell me where dpkg data is stored? for installed packages?	20:24
javispedro	/var/lib/info/dpkg/* ?	20:24
javispedro	(there might be a db elsewhere)	20:25
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RST38h	a'ok, thanks	20:25
MohammadAG	no	20:25
javispedro	but quite a lot of info is there	20:25
MohammadAG	/var/lib/dpkg/info	20:25
MohammadAG	/var/lib/dpkg/info/*	20:25
MohammadAG	and /var/lib/dpkg/status for control files in one file	20:25
javispedro	ah yes, thanks MohammadAG	20:25
javispedro	zokier: seemingly not for Qt4.7 built stuff, it's calling new symbols from qtcore	20:25
MohammadAG	/var/lib/dpkg/info/* is for .list files, .post/pre* stuff	20:25
RST38h	Found and fixed it	20:27
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DocScrutinizer51	honestly, HTF can you upgrade a productive device without proper backup so you can really completely rollback to pre-upgrade state on failure???	20:29
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RST38h	carefully?	20:30
DocScrutinizer51	HAHA	20:30
javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: extras(-stable) should be branched for pr1.2, pr1.3	20:30
DocScrutinizer51	hmm, this means downgrade to 1.2 possible for extras-stable only. Nice, regarding number of elementary apps NOT in stable	20:32
DocScrutinizer51	that's BS	20:32
javispedro	there's not much to be done, really.	20:32
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RST38h	Doc, why do you want to stay with PR1.3 anyway?	20:33
DocScrutinizer51	good question	20:33
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: you can just reflash the pr1.2 kernel, or your custom one... (you're going to do it eitherway I guess)	20:35
DocScrutinizer51	I CAN NOT restore current state of a production device	20:36
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DocScrutinizer51	IF upgrade to 1.3 leaves me screwed, I'm busted	20:37
MohammadAG	what's this about?	20:37
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MohammadAG	you can roll back to1.2 from 1.3	20:37
javispedro	the point is that if any of your apps was on -devel they will have been rebuilt with pr1.3 components	20:38
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DocScrutinizer51	Anybody not seeing the BAD in this shall be sentenced to use slideruler for 10 years, and not touch ANY IT	20:38
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* javispedro does not see the bad: -devel is the unstable repo.		20:39
javispedro	it is.. unstable.	20:39
DocScrutinizer51	(a good question for hiring new sysops btw)	20:39
javispedro	there's a lot of freedoms that come by publishing your software to a unstable repository that developers seem to like.	20:39
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DocScrutinizer51	javispedro: so what? how's that related to rollback?	20:40
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: you cannot rollback if you used software from unstable.	20:40
javispedro	DocScrutinizer51: you can rollback if you didn't.	20:40
DocScrutinizer51	FAIL!!!!	20:41
* GAN900 pokes DocScrutinizer51 with an aluminum pole.		20:41
Gorroth	is that a soda can, or are you just happy to see me	20:42
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: only semi-valid way to deal with this in the way Nokia repo recently does were to move all -testing and -devel to PR1.2-stable, same time you're publishing PR1.3	20:44
DocScrutinizer	OR offer a decent stable tested way to do FULL DISK IMAGE	20:45
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: might be valid features request even, to just tar the entire repo the day before rolling pr1.x	20:45
DocScrutinizer	YES!!!	20:45
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: there's a sane way to do disk imaging now, just boot into meego and tar rootfs	20:45
javispedro	andr /home	20:45
DocScrutinizer	duh, as sane as meego is safe?	20:46
luke-jr_	be glad PR1.3 didn't bring an incompatible cellmo update	20:46
luke-jr_	:P	20:46
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr_: how do you know?	20:46
luke-jr_	I don't.	20:46
luke-jr_	I still have PR1.2 ☺	20:47
DocScrutinizer	see!?	20:47
DocScrutinizer	me too	20:47
javispedro	ah, more warez in tmo!	20:47
luke-jr_	they replaced the warz with warez?	20:48
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DocScrutinizer	incompatible xloader/NOLO update would be equally "nice"	20:48
* ShadowJK still has 1.2 out of fear upgrading ota will involve a reflash again :)		20:48
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* luke-jr_ just fears Nokia :P		20:48
luke-jr_	or rather, I fear their historic incompetence	20:49
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DocScrutinizer	ack, same here	20:49
luke-jr_	therefore, DocScrutinizer needs to switch to Gentoo	20:50
luke-jr_	<.<	20:50
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you can also boot into rescue, or a minimal system if you fear meego	20:50
DocScrutinizer	as they evidently don't care about reasonable working rollback, how can you assume they care about anything else	20:50
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: maemo.org is not Nokia!	20:50
luke-jr_	maemo.org > Nokia	20:51
luke-jr_	heck, talk.maemo.org > Nokia	20:51
luke-jr_	anyhow, bbl	20:51
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juk	javispedro: it's only place to look for actual help with n900 what is nokia then	20:52
javispedro	it's not even 2011 yet, and Garmin is already trying to sell me the 2nd edition of 2011 maps	20:53
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* MohammadAG saves output of maemo-list-user-packages \| awk '{print $1}' to pipe to apt later :)		20:53
javispedro	juk: uh? rephrase please	20:53
javispedro	MohammadAG: that's basically what osso-backup packages does :)	20:53
MohammadAG	javispedro, didn't know that :)	20:53
javispedro	MohammadAG: there's even an option in app mgr menu to restore such a package name list file	20:54
MohammadAG	javispedro, I know of that	20:54
MohammadAG	but I hate HAM	20:54
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: and this (osso-backup.pkgs) will fail epically on restore under a 1.2	20:57
javispedro	yes, if you used -devel software =)	20:57
DocScrutinizer	so WHAT?	20:57
DocScrutinizer	THAT's BULLSHIT!	20:57
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javispedro	tbh I do not remember the exact reasoning between not branching -devel the way -stable is branched	20:58
javispedro	s/between/why	20:58
DocScrutinizer	I can tell you: "too much work"	20:58
V-ille	"no business reason"? :)	20:58
DocScrutinizer	I might even find the email with the exact words, back when	20:59
DocScrutinizer	now, on pr1.3, we see EXACTLY SAME SHIT again. NOT amused!!	20:59
javispedro	wasn't jebba hosting a mirror btw?	21:00
DocScrutinizer	loong gone	21:00
DocScrutinizer	jebba is "dead"	21:00
DocScrutinizer	aka pissed and gone	21:00
* javispedro ponders if I should host one..		21:00
javispedro	no, ISP would kill me.	21:01
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DocScrutinizer	need an account on a box with 1GB backbone and unlimited traffic?	21:01
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kerio	i do! i do!	21:02
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pupnik_	'need' is rather amorphous	21:02
DocScrutinizer	s/need/like	21:02
kerio	i still do!	21:02
dolp	and that box is some 386	21:03
DocScrutinizer	even "would you like me to give you"	21:03
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: you could host the mirror yourself then	21:03
kerio	me me me me me!	21:03
javispedro	I wonder if repository.maemo.org has public rsync	21:03
DocScrutinizer	I'm basically not inclined to do	21:03
DocScrutinizer	but I might share an account for that	21:03
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DocScrutinizer	on what's about the same as openmoko infra	21:04
Gorroth	anyone know how to disable auto dimming of your n900 screen? it just annoys me	21:04
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, hit the mailing list and discuss it.	21:05
GAN900	V-ille, not Nokia's decision	21:05
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GAN900	Extras is maemo.org	21:05
kevloral	Hello all	21:05
opdf2	anyone get el-v1.db problems every now and then?	21:05
opdf2	sometimes I need to delete it because texts get stuck at pending, even though they were really sent	21:06
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* wmarone wonders what happened that he now gets GSM noise on his N900 over headphones :/		21:19
wmarone	but only in the left speaker	21:19
ShadowJK	:/	21:21
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ShadowJK	do you get any music in left?	21:21
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ShadowJK	do you get stereo sound in headphones?	21:21
wmarone	oh yeah	21:21
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wmarone	I suspect it's a hint I should get new headphones	21:22
wmarone	I moved the stress relief around a bit and it went away	21:22
ShadowJK	when the one wire was disconnected it acted as an antenna :)	21:22
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mgedmin	GSM noise? yeah, I just recently noticed that too	21:25
mgedmin	<conspiracy>do you think this could be caused by upgrading to PR 1.3? </conspiracy>	21:25
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wmarone	doubtful, had it before the update	21:26
wmarone	ShadowJK: yeah that's what is probably going on, one strand in the bundle probably. not enough to kill the sound, but enough to pick up the noise.	21:27
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javispedro	aha, so microsoft chose github too.	21:29
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andax	/home/opt/zoutube/zoutube --help-all #revealed that we can pass some special plugin settings to zoutube, but how can we get it to open a specific URL with zoutube? I.e. from IRC?	21:32
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ds3	has anyone socks-ified an N900?	21:34
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SpeedEvil	I have used socks on my n900 to connect my laptop browser to the net	21:35
kerio	i hope they were clean	21:35
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kerio	otherwise your n900 will smell like feet	21:36
lcuk	some feet smell very nice	21:36
lcuk	so it depends on who the socks belong to	21:36
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kerio	>feet fetishism	21:37
GAN900	Gross	21:38
andax	My socks are in a weekly left-right rotation sceme, so i can make sure both smell the same way :)	21:38
javispedro	now we're left to understand what the original poster wanted	21:38
javispedro	did he want to put his n900 in a sock'	21:38
kerio	i lost my n900's stylus :(	21:39
andax	kerio: you lost 10$	21:39
kerio	they cost that much? :O	21:40
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kerio	jesus	21:40
kerio	it's a piece of plastic	21:40
lcuk	ds3, socks proxy?	21:40
kerio	i wonder if i can get it replaced by nokia care	21:40
V-ille	well, find a person who you don't like, steal his stylus	21:40
andax	yes, maybe you can get it cheaper but those i saw where that much	21:40
kerio	"the stylus spontaneously disintegrated"	21:40
lcuk	V-ille, thats evil	21:40
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lcuk	worse is replacing it with something else	21:40
V-ille	maybe that's what already happened to him :)	21:40
kerio	V-ille: how the hell am i going to find someone with a n900	21:40
andax	replacement parts are always frickin' expensive	21:40
V-ille	kerio: go to the management floor :P	21:41
kerio	>management	21:41
javispedro	hey, if you get to buy a new stylus from nokia do tell	21:41
ShadowJK	try meego summit	21:41
kerio	>iphone	21:41
* javispedro couldn't get the original T\|X flipcover from Palm even after telling them I would pay whatever they told me		21:42
javispedro	funny conversation.	21:42
* mgedmin lost two styluses for his Palm Tungsten T		21:42
lcuk	i was once sent a whole new cd drive and interface set after a conversation with tech support about some salvaged device	21:43
ShadowJK	javispedro, did you threaten to buy 51% of their stock	21:43
SpeedEvil	I bought 80% of the stock of a supermarket once.	21:44
SpeedEvil	They only had 5 packets.	21:44
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javispedro	ShadowJK: I guess I should have.	21:46
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javispedro	Had to buy the flipcover from a random ebayer that managed to send me the wrong one twice.	21:46
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/advanced_search_result.php?XTCsid=e8237142d04e809bb6e98cffac40182b&keywords=n900+stylus&x=0&y=0	21:51
DocScrutinizer	4,89 EUR	21:52
DocScrutinizer	I 'recommend' this shop, shipping and goods were ok, when I bought a qwerty keymat	21:53
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DocScrutinizer	(funny sidenote: 3 x 1stylus is cheaper than a pkg of 3	21:54
DocScrutinizer	)	21:54
* lcuk drags out his .net code and plays on windows		21:55
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tripzero	lcuk, ew	21:57
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, duh, it costs extra to have a guy open up the 1X packages and repackage them into a 3X package	21:57
tripzero	mono ftw?	21:57
lcuk	tripzero, i just wanna see how well it will run on an a modern windows phone	21:57
tripzero	wp7?	21:58
lcuk	i havent run .net stuff in years since my loox perished	21:58
ShadowJK	on halloween he shows kids Visual Basic code, and they're a bit nervously frightened, then he says "I used to write this and I loved it", and the kids scream in horror and run away	21:58
pupnik_	very nice DocScrutinizer - 20 euro for a qwerty keypad	21:58
DocScrutinizer	pupnik_: well, It's been worth it	21:59
DocScrutinizer	I hate the German wertzu without up/down cursor keys	22:00
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javispedro	wait. are those actual nokia parts?	22:00
DocScrutinizer	yes	22:00
* javispedro bookmarks		22:00
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DocScrutinizer	:-) that's what my links are meant for :-)	22:00
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lcuk	ShadowJK, not real different from python :P	22:02
lcuk	mental note: visual studio will not install on linux.	22:02
javispedro	yeah, all vs.net versions	22:02
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4366_Original-Nokia-N900-Hinge-Slide.html for all those who managed to ruin their sliding mechanics or the FPC/B2B-connector	22:08
DocScrutinizer	http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4369_Original-Nokia-N900-A-Cover-Touchscreen.html == alternative to 3 times Vircutti screen protector (or whatever it's called)	22:09
javispedro	ooh, cover.	22:10
javispedro	front bezel would be nice, it gets too scratched up too easily.	22:10
DocScrutinizer	bezel? this: http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4765_Original-Nokia-N900-A-Cover.html ??	22:11
javispedro	did not disassemble it yet so I cannot recognize, but seems so.	22:12
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javispedro	ah, this one	22:12
javispedro	http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4766_Original-Nokia-N900-A-Cover-Set-2pcs.html	22:12
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javispedro	oh, battery covers.	22:13
DocScrutinizer	pick your own favourite from http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=n900&x=0&y=0	22:14
Macer	60eu for the screen?	22:14
javispedro	just touchscreen seems	22:14
javispedro	screen is 100eu	22:14
DocScrutinizer	no, for the front-plastic incl touchpad and earpiece	22:14
Macer	mine is still in pretty good shape but that would be nice to keep around	22:15
DocScrutinizer	yep	22:15
javispedro	yeah, nice find. danke schön!	22:15
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DocScrutinizer	makes more sense than 3 x 20EUR for screen protectors (at least in my book)	22:16
DocScrutinizer	yw	22:16
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kerio	so... i lost my stylus	22:20
kerio	cheap replacements?	22:20
marmoute	wood one	22:20
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DocScrutinizer	alternative source for stylii et al: http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900?page=2	22:26
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andax	Is there a maemo compatible Zeiss Cinemizer Plus or other video glasses? Or is this fun for iphone users only?	22:28
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: you've been offline or what? read backscroll!	22:28
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: >>Varastosaldo: 2 kpl<< for the 1 pcs qty stylus, >>Varastosaldo: 10 kpl<< for the pkg of 3	22:31
kerio	in €?	22:32
DocScrutinizer	that's qty available on stock AIUI	22:32
kerio	ooh	22:32
kerio	i see	22:32
kerio	that 1.9€ is the shipping?	22:32
kerio	i bought one from an italian ebay seller for 4.90€ shipped	22:32
DocScrutinizer	guess yes	22:32
andax	Ah, seems Zeiss demonstrated one Cinemizer for Nokia at CeBit but they dont offer it on the Zeiss homepage	22:32
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crashanddie	Stallmania, The Musical. Includes the top hits: If you vim me now, Canon in D minor by Bashelbel, GNU me a river, Highway to H(ttp), Hurds don't come easy. See it now ON ICE! IN 3D!	22:38
crashanddie	"If you vim me now, you'll edit away the biggest part of me. GNU GNU GNU GNU-gnu, baby please don't :q!"	22:41
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kerio	Coder Friendly Luser Shifter	22:42
DocScrutinizer	yet another one (so not to get flamed for product placement here :-P): http://www.thenokiaparts.com/eng/product_search.php search for N900	22:42
crashanddie	kerio: the acronym for those words sounds like "cee-fil-lis" (syphilis)	22:43
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kerio	Use just once and destroy/Invasion of our piracy/Afterbirth of a nation/Starve without your skeleton key	22:43
kerio	see, it fits	22:43
crashanddie	man, I'm bored.	22:44
steinex	crashanddie: haha	22:45
crashanddie	If I have to invent musicals about Stallman, it should say something about my boredom.	22:45
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crashanddie	"Well I'm just a stallman, Linus' so far my best friend, But my hurds are coming out wrong and I reveal my heart to you and hope that you believe it's true, cause: Hurds, don't come easy to me. How can I find a way to you see, I love you, Hurds don't come easy"	22:48
crashanddie	"This is just a simple licence, that I've made for you on my own, There's no hidden meaning you know, when I OPEN you honey, Please believe I really do"	22:49
pupnik_	heheh	22:49
kerio	RMS scares me :<	22:50
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crashanddie	Highway to http: "Living easy, living free. Season ticket on a one way stream. Asking nothing, leave me be. Taking everything on the tube, Don't need reason, don't need rhyme. Ain't nothing I would rather do, Going down, HAMMER TIME. My friends are gonna be leeching too."	22:51
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crashanddie	"I'm on a highway to http, No stop signs, speed limit. Nobody's gonna slow me down (except for the ISP's idiot)"	22:52
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: video or it never happened! :-P	22:52
crashanddie	"Like a tube, gonna milk it, nobody's gonna mess me around. Hey Gates, payed my dues, playing in an open source communityyyy, hey momma, look at meeeeeeeeeeee"	22:54
* khertan have probably brick his Meego Netbook 1.0 os while trying to upgrade it to 1.1		22:54
DocScrutinizer	hahaha	22:54
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crashanddie	"I'm on my way to 404 land, I'm on a highway to httpeeeeeeee -- don't stop meeeeeee"	22:54
tripzero	wups	22:54
khertan	i'm want gtg on Maemo and with a sync ... :)	22:55
* khertan should do it but lacks of time		22:55
crashanddie	khertan: story of my life, bro.	22:55
khertan	:)	22:55
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* DocScrutinizer burps and wonders if a 3rd latte macciato might help...		22:56
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: depends, do you put whisky in your macchiato?	22:56
* DocScrutinizer should call the white dressed dudes with the comfy jacket, to give him a break		22:57
crashanddie	if (DocScrutinizer.hasReply() && DocScrutinizer.nextReply() == True):	22:57
crashanddie	latte.mightHelp = True	22:57
crashanddie	else:	22:57
crashanddie	latte.mightHelp = False	22:57
DocScrutinizer	too bad, I hate whisky	22:58
crashanddie	s/whisky/[insert favourite booze]/g	22:58
crashanddie	I'll just go troll 4chan.	22:58
DocScrutinizer	(too much black&white at age of 12 :-P)	22:58
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: you racist :P	22:58
DocScrutinizer	lol	22:58
crashanddie	anyone got something for me to do?	22:59
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MohammadAG51	sure	22:59
DocScrutinizer	rape repo	22:59
MohammadAG51	change the stars when closing a window to a flame	22:59
MohammadAG51	kthxbye	22:59
crashanddie	reminds me of the guy who got trolled on one of those anonymous chat websites	22:59
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crashanddie	"Where u from?" "Japan, u?" "USA" "HAHA, Japan fucks USA" "Nagasaki" [disconnected]	23:00
DocScrutinizer	let's start a DDoS to tmo. :-P So at least we are prepared for what's coming, and also we might control when it ends	23:00
crashanddie	I can probably take tmo down	23:01
crashanddie	but I'd most probably be perm-banned after that :P	23:01
DocScrutinizer	it's probably easy to take it down (;-P), but not that simple to stop the whole mess then	23:01
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crashanddie	well, we can test	23:02
mikki-kun	~	23:02
crashanddie	I run my magic for 30s, you tell me if it's down or not.	23:02
DocScrutinizer	btw there's still that nice thing about unescaped HTML tags in garage :-P	23:02
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crashanddie	MohammadAG51: anything else?	23:03
* DocScrutinizer ponders how to make money out of a few million clicks to an arbitrary URL :-P		23:03
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: ads?	23:04
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, probably	23:04
DocScrutinizer	tbh I'm not so much into that	23:04
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crashanddie	I've heard about this	23:04
crashanddie	"ad" thing on the interwebs	23:05
crashanddie	never noticed them, though.	23:05
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crashanddie	MohammadAG51: here, might be of use: http://www.wikihow.com/Overcome-Loneliness-Through-Meditation-and-Positive-Thinking	23:06
DocScrutinizer	tmo still alive - which by itself is rather astonishing, given the fact weekend is about to start	23:06
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: you never said go!	23:06
DocScrutinizer	GO!	23:06
crashanddie	hang on	23:06
crashanddie	need to clear some ram	23:06
crashanddie	this sucker is hungry	23:06
andax	crashanddie: you can gedit if you relay want	23:07
DocScrutinizer	hehehe, good one	23:07
andax	:-)	23:08
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: going.	23:08
DocScrutinizer	but you must tryyy, tryyy any tryyyyyy	23:08
DocScrutinizer	yo, down	23:08
DocScrutinizer	back to normal	23:08
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	23:08
crashanddie	yup, cut it	23:08
DocScrutinizer	BACON!	23:08
crashanddie	MOAR?	23:09
crashanddie	reggie is going to hate me :(	23:09
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	23:09
crashanddie	his log files just exploded	23:09
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crashanddie	he just about 4000 entries screaming "HTTP BAD REQUEST"	23:09
DocScrutinizer	how's about some lolcatz on frontpage?	23:09
* DocScrutinizer cackles evilly		23:09
crashanddie	it's amazing that just 4000 connections can bring most websites down	23:10
crashanddie	and about 50KBps	23:10
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DocScrutinizer	yeah	23:10
crashanddie	I'm still banned from riaa.org :(	23:10
DocScrutinizer	logging is heavy, recovery of borked threads is heavy	23:10
DocScrutinizer	aaaaaw	23:11
crashanddie	well, this is just me clogging up all the listen() sockets	23:11
DocScrutinizer	every apache has a max-threads setting I guess	23:11
crashanddie	just sending a tiny bit of data, like "HTTP 1." and then waiting until the socket dies	23:11
crashanddie	and because you're sending a tiny bit of starting-to-be-valid data, the server indulges	23:12
DocScrutinizer	yep	23:12
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crashanddie	last time i tried this tool	23:13
crashanddie	i did it on a friend's website I helped develop	23:13
crashanddie	it runs django	23:13
crashanddie	server fell over	23:13
crashanddie	django flooded its own logs	23:14
crashanddie	attack was maybe 1 minute	23:14
crashanddie	django spent the 6 hours trying to get back up	23:14
DocScrutinizer	let's take the repo as hostage and demand for proper setup to support -testing and -devel on PR1.2 :-P	23:14
korhojoa	:DDD	23:14
crashanddie	gentlemen, start your perl scripts	23:15
crashanddie	so, anyone got scripting, coding, anything to do?	23:15
crashanddie	fuck it, i'll do the dishes even!	23:15
DocScrutinizer	we first need to send blackmail with our demands	23:16
crashanddie	"OH HAI, CAN WEE HAZ TESTING ABYLITEES?"	23:16
DocScrutinizer	"Don't mess with us, we shown we're EVIL"	23:17
crashanddie	"We manipulated /b/ to attack Scientology. Think what they'll do to Nokia if we let them loose."	23:17
DocScrutinizer	nokia: "shrug" - turns away	23:18
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crashanddie	/b/tards, start your LOICs!	23:18
MohammadAG	<crashanddie> +MohammadAG51: anything else?	23:19
MohammadAG	nope, fanks	23:19
DocScrutinizer	next monday there'll be an add on tablets.nokia.com to join scientology	23:19
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MohammadAG	crashanddie, seriously, bringing down tmo on a weekend?	23:19
MohammadAG	you must have better things to do	23:19
crashanddie	well	23:20
crashanddie	gf is working	23:20
crashanddie	I could fap, but it	23:20
crashanddie	it's too early.	23:20
crashanddie	Colleagues are either spending time with their kids, or fucking morons	23:20
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jacekowski	i did that	23:21
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GAN900	Haha	23:21
jacekowski	i was going out with a girl that had no brain at all	23:21
MohammadAG	that =?	23:21
GAN900	Adjective, verb or both?	23:21
crashanddie	GAN900: adjective	23:21
jacekowski	unless "fucking morons" was supposed to mean something else	23:21
jacekowski	hmm, after analysing structure of that sentence	23:22
crashanddie	(example: dude spent 2 hours on the phone IN FRONT OF MY FUCKING OFFICE, talking about World of Warcraft, and managing his guild, then comes into my office and says "man, I'm tired, my head is aching. And you look like you've done fuck all all day")	23:22
jacekowski	i believe that was supposed to meant something else	23:22
crashanddie	GAN900: I guess "spending time with their kids" could be the same as "fucking morons". Depending on the kid, obviously.	23:22
crashanddie	I can't believe I just fucking said that on a logged channel.	23:23
crashanddie	so, short answer, MohammadAG, no, I really don't have anything better to do.	23:23
GAN900	crashanddie, clearly you should join his guild.	23:24
MohammadAG	crashanddie, DDoS logs, duh!	23:24
jacekowski	my server would survive	23:24
MohammadAG	I don't get what WoW is about	23:24
GAN900	Go out and take some pictures.	23:24
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crashanddie	jacekowski: it would?	23:24
jacekowski	yes	23:24
crashanddie	jacekowski.org?	23:24
jacekowski	yes	23:25
GAN900	MohammadAG, well, there are two groups: idiots who think they're good, and idiots who think they're rebels. . . .	23:25
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: is jacekowski.org still up?	23:25
* MohammadAG gets popcorn		23:25
MohammadAG	crashanddie, yes, it is	23:25
crashanddie	hmm	23:25
crashanddie	let's try again	23:26
crashanddie	still up?	23:27
jacekowski	yes	23:27
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MohammadAG	yep	23:27
crashanddie	It's not just you! http://jacekowski.org looks down from here.	23:28
MohammadAG	crashanddie, Just a bit of software i patched long time ago and decided to share now. ...	23:29
MohammadAG	looks up from here	23:29
KMFDM	GAN900, what about idiots who think they are good rebels :p	23:29
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Psi	hm.. so i removed quake3 before updating to pr1.3, can i just reinstall it now or do i need to wait for a new version of quake3?	23:30
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jacekowski	crashanddie: try again	23:31
PaulFertser	Psi: hey, is that really you?! :)	23:31
Psi	yep	23:31
Psi	hey	23:31
PaulFertser	Psi: wow, i'm rather pleased to see you.	23:31
Psi	heh	23:31
lcuk	psi, you mean quake 4? GRIN	23:31
Psi	heh	23:31
crashanddie	jacekowski: going	23:31
crashanddie	jacekowski: it doesn't survive the initial burst, but drops me after the initial connections have been dropped?	23:32
crashanddie	still up?	23:32
lcuk	crashanddie, take your ddosing activities elsewhere	23:33
crashanddie	lcuk: he asked me!	23:33
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jacekowski	crashanddie: i'm tweaking connection limits and stuff	23:33
crashanddie	k	23:34
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crashanddie	~ping	23:38
infobot	~pong	23:38
jacekowski	ok	23:38
jacekowski	try now	23:38
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crashanddie	hmm, I dos'd my router there for a second	23:38
crashanddie	lol :P	23:38
crashanddie	jacekowski: I'm not even denting it	23:38
crashanddie	jacekowski: do you see my connections at least?	23:38
jacekowski	some of them	23:38
crashanddie	where the hell are you hosted, want :P	23:39
jacekowski	sysinfo.jacekowski.org/	23:39
kerio	LOL REISERFS	23:41
crashanddie	murderer :P	23:41
jacekowski	22:42:03 up 46 days, 6:07, 3 users, load average: 44.55, 17.46, 6.58	23:42
jacekowski	after i tweaked apache settings	23:42
crashanddie	jacekowski: that's not me :P	23:42
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jacekowski	and i'm running apachebench from localhost	23:42
crashanddie	ah, ok	23:42
crashanddie	jacekowski: OVH has DoS protection	23:42
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jacekowski	and it's php that starts having problem	23:42
jacekowski	not apache	23:42
jacekowski	1007 requests currently being processed, 193 idle workers	23:43
* andax is 'dpkg --configure -a \|\| apt-get install -f'-ing because the storage was full what broke the package db because of that...		23:44
andax	: _cache->open() failed, please report.	23:44
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andax	what else could i try to sort it out?	23:47
crashanddie	jacekowski: I'm impressed :)	23:47
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DrGrov	What could I use my N900 for since I do not tend to use it as a phone? Any cool suggestions?	23:48
DrGrov	It is just there without any purpose...	23:49
zokier	irc works nicely on it...	23:49
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DrGrov	zokier: Oh, that would be a nice thing. I tend to use only WiFi on it and no SIM card so that is definitely a cool thing to use it for.	23:49
DrGrov	zokier: thanks :)	23:50
andax	DrGrov: i use it to stream internet radio into my fm radio from my hifi stereo equipment	23:50
andax	DrGrov: me too, i do not use the SIM card functionality	23:52
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DrGrov	andax: Ok. That is another good thing to use it for then :)	23:54
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DrGrov	andax: Thanks	23:54
crashanddie	jacekowski: how much are you paying for that machine? 80 quid a month?	23:54
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andax	DrGrov: i recommend 16bit.fm russian electronic music channel without commercial ads	23:54
johnsq	Hi	23:54
DrGrov	I kind of feel that I do not want to sell it and it use it for something cool as you zokier and andax recommended.	23:54
DrGrov	andax: Yes, sounds great. Commercial ads are a PITA.	23:55
andax	indeed :)	23:55
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jacekowski	ah	23:56
jacekowski	my eaccelerator was broken	23:56
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jacekowski	that's why it was so slow	23:56
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jacekowski	crashanddie: almost somewhere around that	23:57
jacekowski	Requests per second: 118.75 [#/sec] (mean)	23:57
jacekowski	full php and mysql pages	23:57
crashanddie	damn	23:58
jacekowski	Requests per second: 1217.27 [#/sec] (mean)	23:58
jacekowski	simple phpinfo	23:58
crashanddie	where is it hosted? in france?	23:58
jacekowski	yes	23:58
andax	DrGrov: add http://16bit.fm:9000 to the media player for the main channel. You can activate the fm transmitter from within the media player	23:58
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