IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-02-08

kynkywell you can see video on n900 at same time as tv00:00
henkie-crazy dbus!00:00
kynkyheard they got sixaxis controller working with n900, so emu++00:00
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simoneb_are those controllers laggy? or it's just the wiimote that's laggy?00:02
kynkycracked my screen on my n900 was gutted00:02
uhsfi can't even make a sixaxis work with bluetooth on arch linux00:02
kynkysimoneb_, thought it should b fine00:02
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Sachinanyone here?00:02
simoneb_i've read on the forum that the wiimote is imprevedibly laggy, somewhere from 20ms to 500ms ... wondered if other controllers were the same00:03
kynkyluckily nokia repair centre fixed screen for modest fee00:03
doubleukayby any chance, has anyone experimented with /proc/sys/vm/swappiness?00:03
kynkyyou could try bt kb00:03
zerojaysimoneb_: Yes, that was me that said that. I work with the Wii and yes, it's terribly laggy... and it's like that on the Wii and on devkits as well.00:03
doubleukayI noticed while dong some IO that the n900 was caching really aggressively00:03
zerojayI haven't tried the Sixaxis on the N900 yet, but I know there's no lagging when using sixaxis normally in Linux.00:04
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simoneb_zerojay: you mean that wiimotes are laggy on the wii itself?00:04
Damion2annoyingly the current ps3 controller w/ n900 needs flashed kernel00:05
zerojaysimoneb_: Wiimotes have a built-in lag to them that developers have to work around.00:05
zerojaysimoneb_: And the lag is random.00:05
kynkysixaxis will be better for drnoksnes anyway00:05
Damion2though technically that shouldn't be.  bt has enough userland stuff to be used to generate keypresses00:05
zerojaySome developers wanting more precision are using the same movement prediction that you'd see in online games for the Wii.00:06
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zerojayDamion2: Shouldn't be, but it is and is for all games... it's just that some people have gotten better at hiding that lag than others.00:06
simoneb_this stuff makes me love wires00:08
zerojayIt should make you hate the Wii.00:09
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zerojayThe other consoles don't suffer from the same problem.00:09
zerojayAnd the PS3 is also using Bluetooth.00:09
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kynkywell its using bt in a slightly annoying way i thought (pairing)00:10
simoneb_by the way.... any pointer on how to make a transparent widget with gtk?00:10
Arif_anyone know if the Wii classic controller works with the N900? :)00:11
kynkysimeoni, try cairo with a surface that supports composite ?00:11
kynkysimoneb_, i mean00:11
simoneb_kynky: cairo? i'm just trying to draw a half-transparent desktop widget :O00:12
simoneb_kynky: with one single button and some text00:12
kynkywell if it was me, i would go down o the garage and find out, simoneb_00:13
simoneb_last time i went there i couldn't find the sources i wanted to peek in00:13
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DassuI guess the music player doesn't have search function?00:16
simoneb_nevermind. found them.00:16
simoneb_Dassu: it does, just type some text00:16
Dassuoh finally I got the answe thanks00:17
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simoneb_you're welcome00:18
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kynkycrazy, my n900 stuck in portrait and desktop is weird too use like that00:21
simoneb_that happened to me once too, but before 1.100:21
kynkyim on pr1.100:22
Arif_so no one tried a classic controller? =(00:22
simoneb_i can't remember how i got there, i think i opened and rapidly closed an application or something like that00:23
kynkyhad to reboot00:23
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chun1Is 16GB the limit on micro-sd cards the n900 can read?00:24
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GAN900zerojay, usuk00:25
Arif_SDHC is upto 32GB00:25
simoneb_but, will it be possibly to attach 2 ps3 controllers to the n900?00:26
ScribbleJIT's possible now, I'm sure.00:27
ScribbleJThey're just bluetooth HID, right?00:27
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Bash1hi guys00:31
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:32
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n1c0i can't switch app when i see a video :S00:33
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n1c0ican only go back to player menu to switch and i lose video connexion00:34
n1c0is there any workaround ?00:34
kynkyuse mplayer ?00:34
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n1c0hmm gona try it but maybe not so nice integrated00:35
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kynkyit doesnt use dsp00:35
Bash1guys ive just installed firefox on my n900 but i dont have an icon, only a blue box00:37
Bash1is this for everyone?00:37
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fragmentBash1: it takes a while to update00:37
Bash1oh cool.00:37
fragmentBash1: icon cache00:37
n1c0i ve set video bookmark, how to see files related ?00:37
n1c0thre is nothing in .videos00:38
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sar3this it possible to run a "ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.2.5, stripped" on the n900?00:45
ljphmm.. wrong window. sorry00:46
SpeedEvilbut you won't like the speed00:46
sar3ththanks SpeedEvil00:46
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SpeedEvilthe processor in the n900 is arm00:47
kynkyed and dangerous00:47
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luke-jrsar3th: just recompile it00:47
sar3thluke-jr: i would do it if i could, but it's the VPN client of my university (juniper network connect), so i don't have the sourcecode00:48
luke-jrsar3th: poor logic00:48
SpeedEvilis it a VPN authenticator - or does it do the VPNstuff itself?00:48
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SpeedEvilyou might also try running it on a x86 box somewhere - and vpning to that00:49
luke-jrsar3th: a university shouldn't be requiring anti-freedom blobs00:49
* GAN900 stabs the S60 blog00:49
GAN900Idiots copied konttori's SNES video to their off feed.00:49
GAN900Lamd hit whoring shit.00:50
* luke-jr ponders what the cheapest ARM board is00:50
sar3thluke-jr: i agree :(00:51
zerojayGAN900: Hmm?00:51
sar3thSpeedEvil: i don't know, it's the client you use to connect into the vpn, it sets up routing and runs as a service in the background00:51
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N900evilluke-jr, there are many sorts of arm00:52
luke-jrN900evil: so?00:52
N900evilluke-jr, from $20 or so00:52
luke-jrN900evil: where? :P00:52
N900evilarm cortex00:52
kynkyluke-jr, beagleboard too expensive ? or would using qemu-arm be to silly ?00:52
luke-jrkynky: yes, beagleboard is pretty expensive00:52
luke-jrkynky: I'm thinking ordering 5-10 or so00:53
luke-jrand putting them various places00:53
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: do you mean with mmu/00:54
SpeedEvil / linux00:54
luke-jrSpeedEvil: yeah, don't all ARM have a MMU? O.o00:55
SpeedEvilnot the little ones00:55
plqhey, first line from my new n900 :) is there a way to send tab key to xchat to do nick completion?00:55
SpeedEvil64K ROM, 20K RAM, 32 bit forex00:55
SpeedEvilplq: see settings -> advanced -> key-bindings00:56
SpeedEvil or00:56
plqsure, thanks.00:56
SpeedEviland drop it in your xchat00:56
SpeedEvilshift-rightarrow does completion in that00:56
GAN900zerojay, S60 blog reuploade konttori's SNES video as their own.00:56
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SpeedEviland shift-0-9 go to channels 0-900:57
SpeedEviland stuff00:57
SpeedEvilshift up and down are pgup/down, ...00:58
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Damion2sar3th: I've been impressed by the speed01:00
sar3thDamion2: i don't know much about how qemu works; does it put the qemu'd process in a sandbox-like environment or will it give plain access to the required resources? it would be useless if the client does work, but i can't use it out of qemu01:01
redeemanqemu-user will run binaries from the target architecture on the host arch01:02
redeemantypically used in chroots or for static binaries01:02
Damion2mplayer converted an ogg to wav in 1/4 of native arm speed and toppler was about 70%01:02
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Damion2sar3th: I can probably somehow send you my binary01:03
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Damion2I've been using ./qemu ./ --library-path `pwd` ./arbitrary_binary01:04
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plqanother question, i got dosbox to run, but it reports /dev/snd/seq not found. what snd device should it be pointed to?01:09
sar3thDamion2: i assume you built qemu from source using scratchbox then?01:09
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Damion2plq: I've not see sequencer in use for yonks01:10
Damion2even oss seemed to drop support in the 90s with the last wavetable soundcard01:11
Damion2timidity and userspace libs took over01:11
Damion2yonks = donkey's yeahs01:11
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Damion2you're not british are you?01:12
plqah ok so its expected behaviour.01:12
plqnope im turkish01:12
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Damion2plq: it's suboptimal and I'm just assuming but yeah it's what I'd expect01:12
plqok thanks a bunch.01:13
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Damion2sar3th: I can scp the binary of qemu somewhere01:13
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Maromaderhello from n900 :)01:17
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Damion2hello: I'm normally using mine01:18
zerojayGAN900: Ugh, that's bullshit.01:19
zerojayGAN900: Feel like testing something out for me real quick?01:20
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mango_makeHi guys, im trying to setup esbox, i finally have it up and running and i have the scratchbox sdk working (have sucesfully built libmpd and a qt front end im wokring on and launched it in xephyr), im running an amd64 gentoo system, ive seen varioud places state that this does not work or is not supported but i have it all up and running to the point where im trying to start the "maemo application framework" in esbox. Probem is the ok button is alwasy greyed01:27
mango_makeout, i set the Build machien type to "host Machine" as im an not using a virtual machine.01:27
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Xisdibikzerojay: what do u need tested?01:33
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mango_makejust realised esbox is lookin for scratchbox 1, when i have scratchbox2 up and running01:34
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Damion2has anyone packaged mediatomb?02:06
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Damion2I've just started it, can't test yet wife watching dancing on ice on the ps3 but I think it'll work.  I'll have to work out debiifying it if nobody else has02:07
Damion2I've just done ./configure && make02:07
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nomishrm. The GPS location of omweather totally fails for me.02:08
ScribbleJMaybe you aren't where you think you are.02:08
nomisScribbleJ: interesting thought.02:08
nomisat least the location API agrees with my perception  :)02:08
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nomisbut somehow omweather maps "Siegen, Germany" to "Haguenau, France" apparently. Maybe it is a problem.02:09
sar3thlol, actually, hagenau is in germany afaik02:10
mango_makewihtin esbox window->preferences->maemo->installed targets, each entry wasnts a password for user, i dont know what this is and passwd in xterm on n900 tells me the passwd for user cannot be chnaged. should i change it somethign as root user or what?02:11
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Bash1whats the best software to convert avi files to work with the n900?02:12
nomissar3th: apparently not:
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sar3thit's been a while since i was there02:14
nomissar3th: oh, you missed the recent german invasion?  :)02:15
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sar3thoh, fuck :< ^^02:15
ScribbleJDoes anyone already know what all the exposed test points on the board under the n900 battery are?02:16
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microlithScribbleJ: no docs that I know of, my guess is serial, JTAG, and something else02:25
ScribbleJYeah, my guess too.... but I'd love it if someone had already figured the serial pinout...02:26
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ScribbleJI wonder if there is some kind of serial driver for the hardware in the kernel tree.02:27
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microlithI imagine that it's a boring, already supported serial port02:27
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Damion2bash1: I use ffmpeg02:32
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ScribbleJIf it were, it would be pretty easy for me to install support, see the module load, scope the pins until I get something fun.02:33
ScribbleJIt seems like there might be enough room in there to wedge in a tiny magnetometer.02:33
microlithif it's using one of the existing, supported types then there won't be a module02:34
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microlithyou could probably scope them now02:34
ScribbleJWell,  I'd have to see the serial port in the OS first so I could send data to scope.02:34
microliththe device nodes are already there02:35
microlithat least one probably runs to the baseband02:35
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ScribbleJI didn't notice the ttyS* before.02:36
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ScribbleJVery interesting.02:36
ScribbleJI suddenly see a difficulty in scoping them, though.02:36
ScribbleJWill need to make some kind of wiring harness first so I can do it with the battery in, I think.02:36
microlithor hook up an external power supply02:37
ScribbleJI thought the N900 would shut down if there is no battery, even if plugged in.02:37
ScribbleJBut I haven't actually tried it.02:37
microlithso you hook up an external PSU to the internal pins02:37
ScribbleJOh, well, isn't that an obvious solution.02:38
ScribbleJI probably didn't think of it because my brain is too finely trained.... or something.02:38
microlithwe do it all the time at work, since we tear them apart and build demos of our stuff to show off02:39
ScribbleJWhat stuff is this?02:39
microlithflash memory mostly02:39
microlithPCM these days02:39
ScribbleJI know barely enough about hardware to wire up a uC.02:39
microlithno worries, I'm all software myself02:40
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GAN900zerojay, hmm?02:42
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crashanddie_I had a comment on slashdot rather +5 funny02:43
infobotcrashanddie_ meant: I had a comment on slashdot rathed +5 funny02:43
crashanddie_I'm not very much awake02:44
wazd_Drunk already? :D02:44
crashanddie_fucking idiot from the bank called me at 4:3002:44
crashanddie_"Mr Lauwers?" "aaaaaaarrrghh, cough cough cough yeeeaaaahhh?"02:45
GAN900crashanddie_, I'm sorry.02:45
crashanddie_"Mr Lauwers, what's your date of birth?" "What the fuck?"02:45
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GAN900crashanddie_, so, did somebody steal your credit card.02:47
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crashanddie_"This is Adjimal Faroush from HSBC Customer Relations, a fraud warning has come up on your bank account, I just need to confirm your identity." "and?" "I need to confirm that you are the owner of the account" "and?" "What's your date of birth" "<giving my date of birth>" "I'm sorry, that's not what I have in my records"  "..."02:47
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wazd_"namaste" :D02:48
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crashanddie_"Are you sure that's your birth date?" "Oh hang on, let me check, maybe I'm confused.... NO, I DO REMEMBER MY DATE OF BIRTH"02:49
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crashanddie_Bloody plonkers02:49
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GAN900crashanddie_, so, did somebody steal your credit card.02:50
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crashanddie_GAN900: nope02:50
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GAN900So, they have twom TVs in this room02:50
GAN900One 19" which gets HD02:50
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GAN900One 50" that doesn't02:50
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* GAN900 is on day 3 bedside in the hospital.02:51
crashanddie_still for your relative? Or did you shoot yourself in the foot again?02:51
GAN900So we're watching the Superbowl on the 19"02:51
GAN900Still the relative02:51
crashanddie_There's your problem02:52
crashanddie_you're watching the superbowl02:52
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GAN900Excited for the Who at halftime.02:52
Damion2mediatomb works02:53
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Damion2crashanddie_: I never give my details when they phone me, I tell them they could be anyone and that they should give me a password and I'll call back to provide it to them (natwest) after which I can run through security and sort the issue out02:54
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Damion2hsbc might cancel your card if you get arsy though02:55
Damion2call them midland just to be sure ;)02:55
crashanddie_Damion2: Actually, I have a business traveller account, they're not supposed to call me, they're not supposed to block out my card because of travel02:56
crashanddie_Damion2: I pay a premium exactly because I travel so much and spend so much on hotels and rentals that if they didn't raise their fraud detection on my account, I'd be stuck 24/702:57
Damion2I had my regular oyster automatic top-up 20quid blocked as "dangerious obscure payment detected"02:58
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Damion2and I didn't know until my oyster stopped working, at which point I "had words" with them02:58
crashanddie_basically, the way fraud detection works is that every day they have the amount of the transaction, multiplied by the country code, which is a risk factor, multiplied by the age of the card holder, as a risk factor as well03:00
Damion2if you're not british you'll need to bing it03:00
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crashanddie_there's another few factors, for example travel rate over the past 2 months, etc, etc03:00
SpeedEvilDamion2: not someone who goes near london03:00
SpeedEvilcrashanddie_: also multiplied by how annoying it'd be to detect the fraud.03:01
Damion2crashanddie_: for hsbc?  I'm sure natwest decided to save money on the contracter rates for the programmer who could write that and got a temp to just have a routine return rand()03:01
crashanddie_they go through the list by order of transaction (biggest first), and they can only handle that many transactions per day. This means that if you have fraud going for $20 on your account, there's a good chance they won't spot it. A payment of $3000 in Australia, however, is pretty surely going to be called as a bluff03:01
Damion2that reminds me I'm off to singapore and newzealand in a few days, I wonder if warning them in advance will help03:02
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Damion2my n97 took >30mins to pick up gps after being unused for weeks and not having a sim03:02
crashanddie_(or worse, $8000 in India, as I had it happen two weeks ago. I only spotted it when I looked at my statement and saw a 4000 pound credit on my account with a "Fraud reimbursement" message, they didn't even call me)03:02
Damion2which relates to that bug on the gps on the n90003:02
Damion2if you can't use agps things are painful03:03
* Damion2 uses his cards a lot, I'm quite surprised I've never had any fraud03:03
Damion2I've had my cc since about 9403:03
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SpeedEvilpaypal are currently screwing india03:04
Damion2and same sort/acc on my current, never seen any sign of naughtyness, just been called loads of times whenever I buy somethuing03:04
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Damion2okay bedtime03:05
crashanddie_the thing that pisses me off is that they'll call you at whatever time is convenient for them03:05
crashanddie_without thinking that, if there's a transaction in Australia, you might BE THER03:06
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qolesomeone send me a message with "qole," to test my N900 notify please?03:07
crashanddie_test for qole03:07
qoleok not working thanks03:07
crashanddie_test for qole,03:07
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qolecrashanddie_, again?03:09
SpeedEvilqole: no03:10
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crashanddie_test for qole03:10
crashanddie_test for qole,03:10
qoleargh, what am I doing wrong?03:11
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qolegotta figure out to get external program to do notify?03:11
GAN900Ah, that was a good halftime show.03:13
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qoletrying to get this to work:
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* DocScrutinizer fsckng wonders where those polite customs to mention original author have been gone03:22
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SpeedEvilSend a DCMA takedown notice03:25
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: on what groups?03:26
SpeedEvilI was assuming form context that he wrote the above script03:26
fabterhello. I wanted to know if its true that the nseries will all be running maemo by 2012 bc in that case ill hold off the n900 foe rhe moment as im happy with my e71 right now03:27
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DocScrutinizerask muhamadAG03:27
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: if so, then it would be copyright infringement, not mere lack of polite customs03:27
fabterdoes anyone know03:27
SpeedEvilfabter: essentially little has been published about what's to occur03:28
fabterok thanks03:28
SpeedEvilI would be surprised if they dropped sybian entirely.03:28
luke-jrfabter: Nseries *already* runs Maemo...03:28
SpeedEvilsome of them03:29
fabterluke yes but not the main line03:29
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luke-jrN97 is considered Nseries?03:29
fabterThey do?03:29
SpeedEviln770/n800/n810/n900 all run maemo03:29
SpeedEvilno others do03:29
fabterI thought u could not install another os withput serious hacking03:29
fabterThose are tablets matw03:29
nomisSpeedEvil: n770 does not exist and the 770 is not Nseries  :)03:29
* SpeedEvil is mostly asleep03:30
luke-jrnomis: nonsense, the kernel source clearly refer to it as N770 :)\03:30
fabteri dont underatand why they dont drop symbian03:30
fabteris it snappier better battery life or what03:30
SpeedEvilfabter: because there is enormous mind-share in it in and out of nokia03:30
fabterwhat is mindshare?03:31
DocScrutinizer[2010-02-07 19:24:16] <MohammadAG_> and I gave him your method for xchat notifications  [2010-02-07 19:25:17] <MohammadAG_> DocScrutinizer,
SpeedEvileven if maemo was better in every aspect - it wouldn't be droped immediately03:31
SpeedEvilmindshare is the dominance of an idea in peoples thoughts.03:31
fabterWell i like symbian as i said i have an e71 and love it03:31
fabterBut apps from one edition are no good for the next03:32
fabterMakes me think twice about buying apps etc.03:32
fabterAhh ok thanks for explainign03:32
fabterIm actually chatting from symbian now hehhe03:32
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qolecan someone please send a message starting with "qole,"03:33
fabterqole hi03:33
qolewoo hoo it notified me!03:33
luke-jrwasn't Symbian just opened?03:33
fabteryeah i heard that03:34
fabterWhat diff does that make for people who already have phones?03:34
qoleusing this script
GAN900luke-jr, EPL, basically Android.03:34
luke-jrGAN900: meaning what?03:35
DocScrutinizerqole: you have a script somewhere like, you entered the full pathname to that file for audioplayer in xchat settings, and you configured to play some soundfile for highlights?03:35
GAN900i.e., operators can close it up whenever they want.03:35
luke-jrAndroid is AFAIK more open than Maemo, on some phones03:35
luke-jrGAN900: how about Nokia phones that shipped with it?03:35
GAN900Not licensing wise, though.03:35
luke-jrGAN900: licensing wise, all I care about is drivers, so GPL03:35
qoleDocScrutinizer, used this post:
GAN900Android isn't GPL03:36
luke-jrGAN900: Android's kernel is GPL.03:36
fabterIts not?03:36
microlithluke-jr: captain obvious, is that you?03:36
GAN900luke-jr, they'd love it if it weren't03:36
luke-jrGAN900: so would Nokia, I bet03:36
fabterok people im off to sleep03:36
GAN900Android is all about putting power in the hands of operators.03:36
fabterSee ya later03:36
fabterKeep up the good work03:37
GAN900luke-jr, depends on who at Nokia you're talking to.03:37
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qolethen I had to set Channel Msg Hilight to a sound file name.03:37
DocScrutinizerqole: I seen this. Actually I've not seen you put it to work finally03:37
GAN900I'm sure the S60 guys would.03:37
luke-jrGAN900: oh, so 100% of the Android camp is anti-GPL?03:37
zerojayAnyone here a fan of the streams and doesn't mind testing something out for me?03:37
luke-jranyhow, nothing wrong with EPL03:38
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qolethe N900 buzzes, LED flashes, and I used message sound03:38
qoleNow I can leave xchat open in the bg and my N900 will notify me if someone asks me a question!03:40
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DocScrutinizerqole: actually my original script had no stupid 'sound_file=/path/to/your/sound/file' and used 'aplay $1' istead03:41
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qoleDocScrutinizer, that makes more sense.03:42
DocScrutinizerso you can set up the sound via xchat's standard config dialog03:42
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qoleDocScrutinizer, did you make that script and 'Master Po' stole it, or are you 'Master Po'?03:45
DocScrutinizer#1 it seems03:45
DocScrutinizerthough I'd not claim he stole it. maybe just same idea03:46
qoleMapping fn-right to Tab is very very helpful in XChat!!03:46
DocScrutinizerqole: doesn't work on QWERTZU kbd. blue-right is down03:46
DocScrutinizerI'm using shift-space now03:47
qoleDocScrutinizer, (just used it there!) whatever key works for you! Tab is so important!03:49
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qoleI really don't understand how they could not have a Tab key on the N900.03:50
DocScrutinizerqole: well they should have thought about a better slide mechanism to free up space for a whole 4th row of keys on kbd03:52
qoleDocScrutinizer, yes t03:52
qoleDocScrutinizer, yes an extra row would be nice... I  hit the Enter key too easily too :)03:53
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qolexchat for N900 just needs one of those Hildon pannable areas instead of the scrollbar area...03:54
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DocScrutinizeryup, eventually finally. For now I'd be happy with larger hot-area for the scrollbuttons, or even better a keymapping for line-by-line scroll03:58
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ohhhhhhWhat format does the camcorder from the N900 record in04:05
zerojayWhat's the max icon size now for packages? 48x48?04:05
ohhhhhh*doesnt own a N900*04:05
ohhhhhhI dont think anyone here ever speaks04:06
luke-jrohhhhhh: they're all n00bs watching violence on TV probably04:07
ohhhhhhmaybe so04:07
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luke-jrohhhhhh: but I don't have a N900 either, so I can't help04:07
ohhhhhhoh, well Im thinking of buying one, but trying to get more info04:07
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ohhhhhhim tied between a Nexus 1 and an N90004:08
luke-jrohhhhhh: wait for Nexus Two? :p04:08
ohhhhhhmy previous Nokia N95 was a great phone04:08
ohhhhhhWell, so far, the video recording abilities on the current Nexus 1 dont look that great to me04:08
ohhhhhhMy N95 shot great pics and video04:08
ohhhhhhin mp4 format04:08
ohhhhhhCurrent android goes to 3pg format , which is terrible for me to work with and poor quality04:09
luke-jrdunno, if I want to record video I'd use a video cam04:09
ohhhhhhsighh, not me04:09
ohhhhhhIf I want video, I want it on the best handheld phone device I can get04:09
DocScrutinizerN900 -> mp404:09
ohhhhhhnice, would you say the quality is better, or the same as the N95? or other nokia phones?04:09
DocScrutinizerno idea04:10
ohhhhhhwhat about using daily apps04:10
ohhhhhhlike facebook , twitter, IM04:11
luke-jrohhhhhh: N900 isn't phone04:11
Damion2n97 is the better upgrade over n95. n900 is a fantastic iphone killer, ideal for unix geeks but lacking a ton of features04:11
ohhhhhhi know its a fuckin tablet04:11
ohhhhhhthat makes phone calls04:11
ohhhhhh= phone to me04:11
luke-jrtablet's can't do that.04:11
ohhhhhhwhat would you say compared N97 to the N90004:11
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ohhhhhhI know the N900 has to be faster04:12
ohhhhhhfor sure04:12
luke-jrN97 is Symbian04:12
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luke-jrN900 is based on Linux04:12
Damion2the cpu is quicker but it's apples n oranges04:12
ohhhhhhmy N95 was always laggy even with a task killer04:12
DocScrutinizertwitter, facebook, other crap there's installers for that which come preinstalled on N900. Never tried one of them04:12
ohhhhhhAlso had a Nokia E71 , but was sad that nokia never cared much about the firmware after release to ever update to fix issues with the camera04:13
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ohhhhhhso I gave up waiting and sold it04:13
ohhhhhhvideo quality was poor on that phone04:13
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ohhhhhhgreat device otherwise04:13
luke-jrohhhhhh: that's pretty common for Nokia in general, at least after some time04:13
DocScrutinizerrule of thumb: if you wonder to get either iPhone or N900, then you for sure should get iPhone04:14
Damion2I'm forcing myself to use the n900 and fix the stuff I want on it to work04:14
ohhhhhhthe iphone is garbage04:14
Damion2n97 is kinda better otherwise04:14
gouverneurohhhhhh: true04:14
ohhhhhhI use a mytouch3g which I have rooted04:14
Damion2the shell for me a unix geek is **cking great to have on the n90004:14
luke-jrGPS never really worked on N810; N900 sounds like it's better, but has some other issues that are "fixed in Maemo 6" (which won't support N900)04:14
ohhhhhhI enjoy it, but the cam is trash04:14
ohhhhhhI enjoyed the G1 layout better04:15
Damion2luke-jr: oh, that was confirmed?  where was the article?04:15
ohhhhhhwhat do you mean Maemo 6 wont support it? Since when?04:15
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ohhhhhhI dont believe that04:15
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: spreading unconfirmed FUD on maemo6 isn't helpful04:15
luke-jrDamion2: no idea04:15
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: didn't some Nokia rep say that M6 won't suport N900?04:16
ohhhhhhI personally feel Nokia is putting more into this, as it might be the future of Nokia, no my symbian04:16
gouverneurohhhhhh: luke-jr not yet04:16
Damion2some guy at some conf claims to have heard it at the sme conf others didn't hear the same thing04:16
luke-jrat the very least, isn't it confirmed that M6 requires multitouch?04:16
gouverneurluke-jr: nope04:17
Damion2multitouch on m6 needs multitouch04:17
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: nope, it will *support* mt04:17
luke-jrwhat was GeneralAntilles ranting about the other day then? <.<04:17
gouverneurand what means "needs multitouch"??? for some freaking gestures?04:17
ohhhhhhWhat about skype video calls with it, does that work currently?04:17
Damion2I suspect they might have libs and api for mt which some enterprising souls port to kludged mt on reistikve04:17
Damion2ohhhhhh: only voice, fring might do skype vid.  google video talk works04:18
ohhhhhhodd that google video talk would work and not skype video humm04:18
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Damion2google is more open?  there are other im clients support it I believe04:19
DocScrutinizerskype is **crypted** binary crap, proprietary, and really poor coding04:20
Damion2skype has annoyingly become a defacto standard with reliable multiplatform clients04:20
DocScrutinizeralso the frontcam was err... suboptimal quality with previous maemo5 rev04:21
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* DocScrutinizer wonders how a statement like "crypted binary and poor coding" could go unnoticed. Anyway... it's true04:27
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: can you please keep your personal inflammatory opinions to yourself?04:29
timeless_mbpit's 3am04:29
timeless_mbpmost sane people would be sleeping04:30
timeless_mbponly the physically ill would be awake04:30
ScribbleJHey, as a physically fine person, I resent that.04:30
ScribbleJI'm only ill mentally.04:30
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ScribbleJ"That boy isn't right in the head," as grandma used to say, God rest her soul.04:31
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Damion2it's only 2:3004:31
ScribbleJOnly 8:30pm in Chicago.04:32
b-man179:30pm here04:32
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ShadowJKluke-jr: gps on n810 and n900 are pretty similar ime04:33
ShadowJKbut i never hasd issues with n810 gps either04:33
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: some 1.5 years ago it really sucked04:34
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DocScrutinizerthen they came up with AGPS, and that made quite a difference04:34
ShadowJKeven without agps, it had acquired lock if I switched it on, put it in car, started car, unplugged car, wiped snow off car04:36
DocScrutinizernow the major diff between N810 and N900 GPS is: N900 has less problems to support internet access for AGPS04:36
ShadowJKand it should deal better with large moves between gps uses too04:37
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qolegrr, i keep getting kicked... inactivity tieout?04:43
microlith* qole (~qole@Maemo/community/council/qole) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)04:43
b-man17hey qole :)04:43
qolemicrolith, thanks. I have to ping every 240 seconds? Maybe Maemo xchat hangs up?04:44
microlithqole: it pings more frequently, freenode just kills you after 240 seconds04:44
microlithI've only had issues when I flop back and forth between wifi and gprs04:45
Damion2well of course04:45
qolemicrolith, so why do I get kicked? Problem with the N900 client?04:45
microlithqole: no clue, I've never had issues getting punted. first thing that comes to mind is checking your connections.04:46
Damion2unless you're doing some magic with vpn your ip is changing04:46
qoleI just left the N900 sitting on the table...04:46
qoleconnected to wifi, screen off..04:46
zerojayProbably powersaving or something.04:47
microlithmy router won't talk nice to my N900 with powersaving on04:48
zerojayI'd like to know what they changed about powersaving max so that it doesn't work for me like it used to on the N810.04:49
qoleMy router (wrt54GL) is usually excellent with N90004:49
qolezerojay, I would like to know too.04:51
zerojayI gotta run powersaving on medium on my home wifi.04:51
luke-jrShadowJK: GPS is completely different N810 vs N90004:52
* SpeedEvil wants his 600 seconds!04:52
SpeedEvil240 second pingout sucks.04:52
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qoleHow to keep XChat pinging?04:54
zerojayIf your IRC client hasn't responded in 4 minutes, 10 minutes isn't really going to help. :)04:57
qoleam I kicked again?04:59
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* qole walks away again... will return in 5 minutes to see if he's been kicked...05:02
N900evilzerojay, my dsl often dies for over 3 and under 9 mins05:03
luke-jrqole: you're not being kicked.05:03
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qoleluke-jr, thanks for making my N900 buzz and beep so I came back before 5 minutes ;)05:05
luke-jrqole: ...05:05
qoleyeah. Like that.05:05
luke-jrqole: qole qole05:06
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qoleluke-jr, cut it out!05:07
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qoleluke-jr, you are interfering with SCIENCE!05:07
luke-jrqole: lies05:08
Venstshould i installed just scratchbox or maemo sdk to compile some cli applications for the n900 ?05:08
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* ShadowJK has a openvpn setup to his server to make irc cope with n900 changing from wifi to gprs etc05:10
ShadowJKmy wrt54gl seems to have okay powersaving, but it has srsly crappy range (less than 10m)05:11
zerojayN900evil: Your DSL is completely fucked then.05:11
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* qole got kicked again... :(05:21
luke-jr[21:16:18] <-- qole has left this server (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).05:21
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crashanddieqole: no, not kicked, your connection sucks05:23
* qole is embarrassed. .. hit the close button accidentally...05:23
qolebut what's going on with the ping?05:24
crashanddieit sucks05:24
crashanddieqole: when I say "Ping", you reply "pong" as fast as possible, k?05:24
qolewhat? ok05:24
qoleI will pretype pong...05:25
luke-jrqole: FAIL05:25
qoleok ready to pong05:25
crashanddie26 seconds05:25
luke-jrqole: SLOW!05:26
crashanddie~burn qole05:26
* infobot pours gasoline all over qole, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze05:26
qoleyah and what does this prove exactly?05:26
crashanddie~kill qole05:26
* infobot shoots a magneto-ionized anti-graviton gun at qole05:26
crashanddie~freeze qole05:26
infobotsomebody said fail was what happens to you when you follow gamespot's game advice. standing in the fire.05:26
qole~slap crashanddie05:27
* infobot slaps crashanddie, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!05:27
crashanddie~kick qole05:27
* infobot kicks qole05:27
qole~punch infobot05:27
* infobot lets fly with a wild haymaker which catches infobot right on the nose05:27
crashanddieout for lunch, bbl05:28
qolehow do you do the trout one?05:28
qole~trout infobot05:28
* infobot slaps infobot around a bit with a large trout!05:28
qoleha yes!05:28
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infobotfrom memory, fun is what I'm not, or what I am missing05:29
infobotwell, beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...05:29
infobotn900 is, like, a wooden box with stained cans inside05:30
zerojayWhat, no snappy insult? ;/05:31
qoleinfobot is dead.05:31
qole~trout zerojay05:31
b-man17~burn himeself05:31
* infobot slaps zerojay around a bit with a large trout!05:31
* infobot pours gasoline all over himeself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze05:31
qolehuh. Just stays silent if it doesn't know05:32
zerojayAny packaging geniuses awake?05:32
qoleI know how to use py2deb!05:32
b-man17ui know dpkg-#3/@?k05:33
b-man17damn n900 kb05:33
b-man17i know dpkg-dev05:33
qolepy2deb is for packaging things that don't need to be compiled.05:33
qoledamn nopp keyboard05:33
zerojayI've got an adblocking/flashblocking CSS file that I want to package to replace the disappearing adblock plus... and I'm lazy.05:34
qolepy2deb would be perfect for a css file.05:34
zerojaySomething's actually not working in my scratchbox anymore and it's late and I don't feel like fucking with it.05:34
zerojaypy2deb isn't just meant for python packages?05:34
qoleyeah I use it for all my packages, they're shell scripts and such.05:35
zerojayOh, cool.. and you just run it on your device?05:35
b-man17does the n900 by default support m4v videos?05:38
qolesee my git repo for an example of how to set up a project folder...;a=tree;f=fremantle/easy-deb-chroot;h=1f4aa7f114340ca9abfb2ab63e0876b5dcde36d3;hb=dab6b987af82acf4a4c93bf02418bc725c537bc505:39
b-man17tinyurl plz05:39
* zerojay browser explode.05:39
qoleNow THAT is a big URL05:39
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b-man17that fills up half my screen xD05:40
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qolezerojay, did you see
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, coin is flipped... heads or tails?05:51
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zerojayqole: Yeah, thanks.05:52
qolehey it didn't hang up on me!05:53
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infobotDocScrutinizer: :)05:54
b-man17~blow up05:55
* infobot blows up05:55
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.05:55
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infobotG'night docscrutinizer, get out of here.05:59
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b-man17~attack DocScrutinizer06:01
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing DocScrutinizer06:01
DocScrutinizerduh, never knew infobot is a female06:01
crashanddieshe isn't06:02
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crashanddiewelcome to the internet, where men are men, women are men, and 8 year olds are fbi agents06:03
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DocScrutinizer...and drunken spanish dudes fail to pass the turing test06:05
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DocScrutinizerand qole pings users and chats with bots06:07
crashanddiewoohoo, 200th post on tmo!06:07
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crashanddiexnt14: hi troll06:10
b-man17Vcongratulations xD06:10
DocScrutinizerreading tmo? how do you manage to do so?06:11
GAN900crashanddie, I'm such a spammer.06:11
crashanddieGAN900: did you use my email address for porn sites again?06:12
xnt14crashanddie: lol06:12
b-man17xnt14 is a troll ? - i talk to him all the time :/06:12
crashanddieGAN900: at least try abstinence while you're in the hospital06:12
GAN900crashanddie, nah, just breached 5000 posts on tmo months ago.06:13
xnt14crashanddie: btw I saw your edit on the hak5 wiki. heh :P06:13
xnt14on the community projects section06:13
Venstwhat toolchain should i use with scratchbox for the n900?06:13
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Venstor scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc3.2-uclibc20040229?06:14
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GAN9005 UNCONFIRMED crit+ bugs in the past 24 hours06:14
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crashanddie_sorry, I probably missed some stuff06:16
* GAN900 rubs temples at
povbotBug 8896: Microphone is dead06:16
DocScrutinizerheh, maemo stabilizes :-P06:16
GAN900Is he opening a support ticket there?06:16
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crashanddiethat's what you get for using webchat over ssh over vpn06:17
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* DocScrutinizer cackles06:18
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DocScrutinizerhow's mic connected to GSM technically?06:26
GAN900Telepathy and Pulse06:27
DocScrutinizerso the codec is on AP?06:27
DocScrutinizeror I2S to GSM, plain audio?06:28
Venstguys, what toolchain should be used with scratchbox for the n900 ?06:29
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Venstand btw im installingg just  scratchbox not the maemo SDK, i would need the sdk to compile some cli software , correct?06:30
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ScribbleJWhen I use my TV out the output is extremely dim and oversaturated.  Anyone else have this problem?  My googling is not helpful. :(06:35
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microlithBalSak: looking for something?06:38
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BalSakis there an ISO or live image I cvan use for an into to maemo, please. wanna load it on an SD card to test on my netbook06:38
microlithmaemo doesn't work like that06:38
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microlithyou could grab one of the SDK VM images though06:39
BalSakmicrolith: really. a while back I had an image (v3 I think) that I loaded in a x86-based VM06:39
microlithno clue, didn't use it until maemo 5 myself06:40
BalSakso, what? do I use the SDK to build an image to use? (excuse my ignorance)06:41
ptlall the instructions are on the maemo wiki06:41
ScribbleJThe SDK includes an "Emulator"06:41
ptlor you can google for it06:42
ptl'install maemo 5'06:42
ptlthe VM environment is called scratchbox.06:42
BalSaksweet. thanks06:42
ShadowJKEssentially there is no installable "maemo distro", and there is no emulator. There is the SDK environment, which is a bare-minimum for developers to test their own GUI apps.06:43
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BalSakembedded-device approach? similar to the droid?06:43
BalSakI've only started getting into embedded recently (ALIX), so it's a bit fresh to me06:44
ptlI don't understand your question06:45
DocScrutinizerBalSak: you can compile your app to run on x86 and test it on your desktop. scratchbox provides the needed libs06:46
ShadowJKI heard it's a bit slow because the SDK does OpenGL ES in software06:46
BalSakscratchbox is new to me..... already running VM env, so will have to check if it's all ok06:47
DocScrutinizerBalSak: think of it like running win-apps under wine06:47
BalSakuserspace dev env? chrooted & all?06:47
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ptlchrooted and all.06:48
ShadowJKseems like a mix of chroot and qemu-powered arm->x86 interpeter06:48
ptland you use all the regular linux tools like fakeroot, apt-get, autotools, the GNU toolchain and so on06:49
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villagerand the Debian toolchain06:50
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BalSakthink I'll try & get it working in a VM & then port it to an SD for use as a bootable distro for my netbook06:51
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* BalSak hopes06:51
ptlhey guys, do you have a good source of backgrouns/wallpapers for the N900?06:51
ShadowJKyou might also want to check out Mer06:52
infobotwell, mer is, or on #mer06:52
BalSakthnx guys06:52
BalSakc ya l8r06:52
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zerojayAnyone with access to the packages awake?06:56
pronto*sigh* it sucks having to waitt for a new n900 x.x06:56
prontobtw newegg is awesome, they're replacing a broken n900 ^_^06:57
zerojayAgreed. Waited a few months after my prototype broke to get a replacement retail.06:57
prontomy retail onoe broke06:57
prontoluckly in less then 30days06:57
prontoand newegg is replacying it06:57
zerojayThe micro USB?06:57
luke-jrpronto: bet you had to pay shipping again tho06:57
prontonewegg did06:57
luke-jrboth ways06:58
zerojayYeah, when I told them what happened and said that I hope that this problem didn't make it into retail... they told me not to worry.06:58
prontowell its still in transit06:58
luke-jrbut will the new one survive? :P06:58
zerojayPlenty worried now.06:58
prontoluke-jr: i'm going to file down those hooks of doom on the charger06:58
luke-jrzerojay: it appears someone figured out a workaround tho06:58
* luke-jr doesn't get why the hooks make the difference, but whatever :)06:59
prontothey latch on06:59
prontofileing them down allows the cable to slip out easy06:59
luke-jrso it's not that the port is weak, but that the hooks don't detach properly?06:59
prontoincase there is any pressure on it06:59
prontothe port is weak as well06:59
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prontoman i was pissed when that happned though07:00
prontosince money wise me being that phone probally was a really bad idea07:00
* microlith ponders why mount is not accepting the user parameter07:00
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TRX_i already have scratchbox installed, would i need to use these install scripts that are provided in the wiki ?07:03
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TRX_as in, does it do more than just install scratchbox ? for example , configure it ?07:04
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* TRX_ looks around07:08
TRX_where are all the gurus today?07:08
ScribbleJYes, it's configures it.07:08
TRX_oh, thats too bad07:09
TRX_scribblej, you think i'd need the full sdk even if i dont need emulation ?07:10
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ScribbleJWhat do you need?07:10
ScribbleJI'd say yes.07:10
TRX_as in, im not going to doing any gui applications07:10
ScribbleJSo... how do you plan on compiling your non-gui applications?07:11
microlithcustom make script + arm compiler07:11
TRX_ScribbleJ : isnt that what scratchbox is for ?07:11
TRX_you see, i was reading this
TRX_and it reads that i need scratchbox , so i installed it :D07:12
ScribbleJWell, good luck continuing then.07:13
ScribbleJThat tutorial obviously assumes that you have installed the SDK and are using the scratchbox environment it provides.07:13
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ptlI didn't know about Mer07:16
ptldoes Mer run on N900?07:16
ptlI mean, using all its devices07:16
TRX_ScribbleJ : the guy is saying that the desktop environment inside scratchbox isnt needed to just compile applications, thats not correct ?07:16
villagerTRX_: that's what a *configured* scratchbox is for, yes...07:16
ScribbleJTRX, who cares about the desktop environment?07:17
ScribbleJI don't, you don't.  YOu coudl have installed the SDK in the amount of time you've been worrying abotu whether you shoudl install it.07:17
TRX_not really mate07:17
ScribbleJThere's a lot of other shit that goes into it, like the proper glibc version, kernel headers, apt packages, standard libraries to link against, yadda.07:18
TRX_running on 256k connections, 400mb takes a lot of time.07:18
ScribbleJYou do what makes you happy.07:18
ScribbleJWhen you fail, you can go back and try the SDK.07:18
microlithyou'll be downloading a ton of stuff either way07:19
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microlithdoes the N900 (or busybox?) respect /etc/fstab?07:22
pronto  the only photo of the super bowl you need >.>07:23
ScribbleJYes and no07:23
ScribbleJ/etc/fstab is "respected" but you'll have to edit one of the default boot scripts in order to stop it from being overwritten; by default n900 creates new fstab on boot.07:23
microlithScribbleJ: do you know if busybox's mount command respects the "user" parameter, or is that somewhere else down the line?07:24
ScribbleJThat I do not know.07:24
microliththanks for the warning about fstab though07:24
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TRX_"Need to get 375MB/425MB of archives!"07:28
ptlwhat country are you from? Even here in Brazil we have bigger speeds07:29
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TRX_ScribbleJ : so, this configured scratchbox alone would allow me to compile cli applications ?07:30
ScribbleJYes, easy as pie.07:31
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TRX_ScribbleJ : would i also need to install to endup with a configured scratchbox ?07:35
ScribbleJI'm not completely sure... I used the GUI installer.07:35
ScribbleJBut there are detailed instructions on maemo.org07:36
zerojayX-Fade: Awake?07:39
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* RST38h moos in the dawn07:43
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* microlith moves off to build nls_utf8 for cifs07:47
MistaEDhi, can anyone else download the firefox mobile browser using their site on the n900? i try but it never downloads properly from the regular browser, maybe it just "knows" :)07:48
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microlithdoes make menuconfig not work in scratchbox?07:53
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microlithyay, utf8 works08:13
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* microlith jabs modprobe08:22
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microlithah, modules.dep08:45
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Stskeepsmorning RevdKathy09:06
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* microlith grumbles at fstab09:25
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JaffaNext issue of Maemo Weekly News out:
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JaffaMorning, all, BTW09:33
* microlith wonders what he's missing09:33
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microlithis there anything beyond the "user" parameter required in an fstab entry to allow users to initiate a mount?09:34
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meceHow's the maemonian revolution going? We taken up arms yet?09:38
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meceI guess not.09:39
timeless_mbpso, lest people think that only people who work on Maemo can't spell09:40
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adeus"symbian" is on that list09:42
Jaffatimeless_mbp: "acception" is pretty bad :(09:42
timeless_mbpadeus: it's a proper noun09:43
timeless_mbp'microsoft' and 'intel' will be on another list from another corner09:43
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timeless_mbpobviously i don't claim that i'm catching 100% of all errors while reading through this09:44
timeless_mbpyou're free to browse the two corners of the source tree, they're exposed via mxr09:44
timeless_mbpthat list is from the first corner09:44
timeless_mbpi'm working backwards from the 'k's in the second corner right now09:44
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timeless_mbpi think my favorite 'word' fwiw is "pleaseletmelive" which won't appear on the wordlist09:45
Jaffatimeless_mbp: How apt for Symbian ;-)09:45
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* microlith tries to threaten mount into doing its thing, but it resists as only software can09:46
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microlithis it busybox or the kernel telling me that the "user" parameter for an fstab entry is invalid?09:50
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microliththank you busybox, for being a roadblock09:53
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ptlis it just me or the openarena-data is present on the repositories but openarena isn't?09:57
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timeless_mbpit's probably more fun like that10:00
koala_manjust you10:00
timeless_mbpbring your own game engine :)10:00
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ptlI am using scratchbox10:05
adeusConflicts: openarena (<< 0.7.6)10:07
adeusthey even don't like each other :)10:07
ptlyou do have openarena on your repositories?10:08
ptlcan you do a apt-cache policy openarena10:08
koala_manapt-cache shows openarena on my device. are you using the x86 repo?10:09
ptlif you do apt-cache policy openarena10:09
ptlyou can see where it comes from10:09
adeusyeah the pkg is available in arm repo10:10
ptlnot on the x86?10:10
adeusseems so10:10
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ptlI'll change to the arm repo as soon as I finish some download here10:10
timeless_mbpthere's no 'arm' repo10:12
timeless_mbpthere's merely a client expressing a preference for the 'arm' architecture10:12
timeless_mbp(you can actually ask your client to express a preference for an architecture you don't have)10:12
timeless_mbpmy opensolaris-nexenta-intel client often expressed a preference for linux-maemo-arm10:13
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ptlI used the wrong word10:14
ptls/arm repo/arm target/10:14
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: what tool do you use for your pictures?10:23
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: iPhoto is pretty ridiculous, Aperture wasn't any better (no RAW support for my camera), I'm trying Lightroom now10:23
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Stskeepsmorning X-Fade, wb from vacation10:35
X-Fadehi Stskeeps, thanks ;) Need coffee when looking at the email backlog...10:36
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RST38hMourning X-Fade10:36
RST38hX-Fade: Once you get through your coffee, Maemo5 Downloads page is stuck at Vulture's Eye again.10:36
X-FadeRST38h: I'll have a look.10:37
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aslaniWhat's wrong with Vulture's Eye ;)10:39
* asj_ listens to the shuttle launch10:42
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X-Fadeasj_: Yeah, always cool to watch.10:43
asj_good time for us here this time10:43
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timeless_mbpline 38 -- has been retrieved. It also implementeds the MGenericTimerClient10:49
* timeless_mbp makes a mental note to kill file bugs against xerces10:50
Corsacimplementeds, nice10:50
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Does the browser put temp downloads on rootfs?10:51
timeless_mbpX-Fade: i'm not really sure10:51
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timeless_mbpin general, we're mostly screwed10:51
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: I got an out of diskspace error.10:51
timeless_mbp /tmp has no space10:51
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timeless_mbpso it's possible we used /tmp :)10:52
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: While downloading a 35MB podcast with my browser ;)10:52
timeless_mbp MyDocs doesn't exist often enough10:52
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: /home/user/ ?10:52
timeless_mbpX-Fade: my bet is on /tmp10:52
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: That is where apt puts it's cache.10:52
Corsacjust download to /dev/null, there's plenty of room10:52
timeless_mbpright, we could use /home/user10:52
timeless_mbpCorsac: sadly the results for a user aren't better than /tmp10:52
Corsacgood point10:53
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Seems silly that I can't download multiple larger files while I have a massive amount of space left everywhere else ;)10:53
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: /home/user might be ok, of course we'd pay a penalty later when we move it10:53
timeless_mbpit's 10am10:53
timeless_mbpnone of us are really awake this early on a monday10:53
ifreq11am @work.10:54
* Corsac confirms 100010:54
ifreqi think most are @school or @work ;)10:54
Corsacwell, technically 095410:54
ifreqtea ->10:54
timeless_mbpCorsac's right I meant: "it isn't even 10 am...."10:55
timeless_mbpand 'us' = my browser team, not 'us #maemo people'10:55
Corsacthat just means it's even less possible for people to be awake at that time on monday10:55
timeless_mbpX-Fade: for kicks, change /tmp to be a symlink to /home/user/tmp10:55
timeless_mbpwhat happens?10:55
Corsacnow, time for C8H10N4O210:56
Stskeepsprobably havoc, timeless_mbp10:56
Stskeepsas dsmesock and friends are in there10:56
timeless_mbpX-Fade: i think we were historically ordered not to write to /home/user because people were afraid we'd ruin the file system10:56
timeless_mbp(same reason we didn't have disk cache...)10:56
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timeless_mbpCorsac: is that caffeine? because it isn't sugar10:57
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Yeah, but it can't be much worse than filling up rootfs ;)10:57
timeless_mbpX-Fade: /tmp isn't the rootfs10:57
timeless_mbpit's memfs or something wonky10:58
kynkydf -h10:58
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* timeless_mbp is lazy10:58
timeless_mbpok 'tmpfs'10:58
X-FadeAh, yes.10:59
kynkybasically a ramdisk10:59
timeless_mbpmemfs, ramfs, ramdisk, whatever10:59
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Nah, that seems weird. That is very small.10:59
Corsactimeless_mbp: I usually take sugar with my caffeine though10:59
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Can't imagine that you use that.10:59
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: well, we have lsof, you can verify fairly easily :)11:00
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Only 1MB?11:00
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kynkywell makes sense to,/tmp implies that files could be written there alot, as you dont want todo needless writes to flash, then do it to ram11:01
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: how'd you download the file?11:02
* timeless_mbp doesn't want to invent steps to reproduce11:02
timeless_mbpfwiw in Gecko there are something like 7 different 'download' paths11:02
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timeless_mbpso asking me to guess your steps to reproduce is a recipe for fail11:02
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Go to and download a few podcasts there.11:03
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: 2 at the same time will do nicely.11:03
kynkyuse wget ?11:03
cvandonderenHiya, does anybody know where to get that N900 Windows 7 x64 RNDIS driver? I downloaded it on my laptop, but can't find it on the internet anymore11:03
cvandonderenyeah, like normal windows .inf file11:04
cvandonderenthere is one for the old tablets11:04
timeless_mbprndis has nothing to do with .inf files11:04
cvandonderenso I can do USB networking11:04
timeless_mbpwhat is rndis?11:04
cvandonderenRemote Network something11:04
cvandonderenit was on some forum and uploaded to megaupload11:05
timeless_mbpX-Fade: pretend i'm totally unfamiliar w/ this 'podcast' stuff11:05
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cvandonderenfor use with MADDE and all11:05
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timeless_mbpi clicked your link11:05
cvandonderennow I get "RNDIS/Ethernet Gadget" no driver found11:05
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: urls in pm.11:05
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: i'm not seeing any /tmp or other interesting paths11:10
timeless_mbpit's just supposedly saving in .documents which is where i told it to11:10
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timeless_mbpand they're both growing at reasonable rates11:11
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Hmm weird. Ok will try to find out what happened exactly.11:11
timeless_mbpi'm not using 1.1 ...11:11
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timeless_mbpand i do have a disk cache in theory11:11
timeless_mbpmy device was flashed on thursday before i flew to Paris11:12
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Mine a week before that.11:12
timeless_mbpi'm fairly certain nothing interesting has changed in that interval11:13
timeless_mbpi have 23mb free on /11:13
timeless_mbp900k on /tmp11:13
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timeless_mbp1.6g on /home11:14
timeless_mbp24.8g on /home/user/MyDocs11:14
timeless_mbpno microSD11:14
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JaffaX-Fade: Welcome back!11:18
X-FadeJaffa: Thanks11:19
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bigbrovarhi guys11:27
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vallhalla81Good morning all11:40
woglindeall back from fosdem?11:40
vallhalla81Ello how are you?11:40
mgedminis fosdem over already?11:41
woglindefosdem is only sat/sun11:41
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timeless_mbpwhat time zone am i in?11:45
meceis there supposed to be two hildon-home processes running?11:45
mecetimeless_mbp, EET?11:46
timeless_mbpmy mac thought i was in paris11:46
timeless_mbpand my n900 thought i was in berlin11:46
mecethat's the same timezone11:46
ifreqis there a pdf reader out which allows vertical reading?11:46
timeless_mbpyeah, but you're right, i'm not in CET, i'm physically in HEL=EET11:46
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* timeless_mbp grumbles11:47
* timeless_mbp needs to file a bug about calendar11:47
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timeless_mbpmece: can you test something for me?11:47
meceI'm in Tku, so EEt here too.11:47
TRX_ok, just finished installing scratchbox!11:47
meceEET even11:47
timeless_mbpcreate an event for 12pm-1pm (assuming you're in EET)11:47
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TRX_at last, after 3 hours on this sucky connection!11:47
timeless_mbpset the reminder for 5mins in advance11:48
timeless_mbpthen change your time zone to Berlin11:48
timeless_mbpwhen the alarm rings, click view11:48
timeless_mbp(oh do close the calendar once you've created the event w/ its reminder)11:48
woglindetimeless calendar is tricky, even why you are flight a lot11:48
TRX_anyone knows about how much MB will get ?11:48
woglindeargs wehn11:48
timeless_mbpthen tap the system area and change your time zone back to HEL11:48
timeless_mbppersonally, i expect the calendar event to update its times to match local time11:49
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mecehmm how do I change timezone? I have to turn of automagically update?11:49
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timeless_mbpperfectly logical, if you're a finn, right?11:49
mecehehe yes11:49
TRX_sorry, i meant /maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh11:50
mgedminiirc you also have to save the changes before turning automatic updates back on11:50
mgedminor your manual timezone fix will be ignored11:50
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: about?11:50
woglindetrx with rootstraps 1-2 gig11:50
asj_heya crashanddie11:50
TRX_this script isnt using apt, anyone knows around how much mbs its going to get! ?11:50
crashanddieGAN900: or still at the hospital?11:50
mecetimeless_mbp, ok done.. waiting...11:50
mecemy calendar widget says the event is now at 11:0011:51
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woglindetrx with rootstraps in the end you need 1-2 gig11:51
meceso it stayed at the sime place in time...11:51
crashanddieyo asj_11:51
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meceperhaps I should have removed the widget first...11:52
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vallhalla811Has anyone had trouble with twitter rss feeds?11:52
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crashanddievallhalla811: you, by the sound of it11:52
asj_vallhalla811: twitter's failw whale11:53
vallhalla811Yes only on my n90011:53
crashanddieshit, food shop is about to close11:53
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mecetimeless_mbp, everything worked as it should have IMO11:56
timeless_mbpmece: did you get the alarm?11:56
timeless_mbpand you clicked 'view'?11:57
timeless_mbpand you left that window open?11:57
mecetimeless_mbp, right.. Apparently I'm not so good at taking instructions.11:57
timeless_mbptry again, 12:10pm alarm at 12:05pm?11:57
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meceoh oh.. I actually found a bu gnow...11:58
mecebug now11:58
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timeless_mbpin calendar or elsewhere?11:59
mecetimeless_mbp, when changeing the time. tho i might not have saved timezone correctly..11:59
meceok.. should ring in 1 minute...11:59
meceI'll check this bug first.12:00
meceerr your bug.12:00
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mecetekonivel, free wlan at lasipalatsi?12:00
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tekonivel mece: yeah12:01
tekonivelmece: but i'm not using it atm12:01
tekonivelmece: but such exists. i'm actually logged in host12:02
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timeless_mbptekonivel: is this near the cafe by the post office12:02
timeless_mbpor the cafe by sokos12:02
timeless_mbpperhaps i should say the parliament and forum12:03
tekoniveltii'm actually elsewhere, but lasipalatsi is just next to sokos, head post office, sokos and not too far from the parliament either12:05
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mecetimeless_mbp, looks like it's not going to ring... oh there it goes... LOL12:07
meceok now I have the "view" open.12:07
mecetimeless_mbp, what did you want to know?12:07
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timeless_mbpso, when it rings it shows you a time for the event, which is correct, right?12:08
timeless_mbpnow change your time zone +/- 112:08
timeless_mbpwithout closing the event which you 'view'ed12:08
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timeless_mbpis the time for the event still correct or is it now wrong because it didn't correct for your time zone change12:08
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mecewell it didn't in the view part... but it did change in the calendar. I think it's perfectly acceptable that it doesn't change the view display.12:09
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timeless_mbpor is the answer "because I'm a Finn"12:10
* timeless_mbp grumbles12:10
mecetimeless_mbp, I think of it as a "static page" or something. I didn't expect it to change.12:10
meceit was loaded when I pressed view, and I didn't expect it to change.12:10
timeless_mbpso, i wouldn't mind if it listed a time zone next to the times12:11
timeless_mbpbut... i don't think we actually have many 'static' pages on our platform12:11
mecetimeless_mbp, I think it's mostly because having an event open like this is something I rarely do. Well i guess it's a bug, just not one I would care about enough to even mention.12:12
timeless_mbpmece: yeah, sorry12:12
timeless_mbpthe problem i have is that i haven't met many Finns who travel12:12
timeless_mbpi've met a number of finns who refuse to travel12:12
mecetimeless_mbp, that is true. And now that you mention it, it actually could be a problem.12:12
mecetimeless_mbp, I'm going to norway on thursday, via sweden.12:13
timeless_mbpwell, it just screwed me out of lunch / a meeting12:13
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timeless_mbpanyway, since you appreciate the problem, can i convince you to file the bug? :)12:13
timeless_mbpremember there could be at least a shirt in it for you ;-)12:13
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mecetimeless_mbp, sure, I'll have some lunch first.12:14
timeless_mbpsounds reasonable to me12:14
mecetimeless_mbp, you can also just click an event to view it, then change timezone to see the bug. The whole waiting for an alarm is a bit overkill :)12:15
timeless_mbpmece: sure, feel free to use the simpler steps when filing12:15
meceis this applications or platform?12:15
timeless_mbpi generally try to report precisely what i did in case there's some stupid quirk related to my exact steps12:15
MortimeR_I understand that X-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin is the OS but what is RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin?12:16
timeless_mbpoptimizing steps to reproduce comes later12:16
timeless_mbpMortimeR_: do you understand the device file systems?12:16
timeless_mbpthere are roughly 3: System, User Home, USB Mass Storage12:16
MortimeR_timeless_mbp: I am familiar with Linux and embedded systems12:16
MortimeR_timeless_mbp: I understand12:17
timeless_mbpthe combined image is for System12:17
timeless_mbpEMMC is for User Home + USB Mass Storage12:17
timeless_mbpVanilla means "no regional maps" among other things12:17
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MortimeR_I do not understand the later12:17
timeless_mbpi think the user home part is probably entirely empty12:17
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MortimeR_I expect user home to be nearly empty and what is USB Mass storage. This is only supposed to be mode accessing the users data12:18
timeless_mbpbut the USB Mass Storage part comes with a couple of files that make your n900 look shinier when plugged into a computer as usb mass storage12:18
snostormI have been hit by the reboot bug agian  anbody know how to relate my details to nokia so someone who can talk engineer with me might solve this problem12:18
timeless_mbpwell, if you prefer, /, /home, /home/user/MyDocs12:18
timeless_mbpbut i don't really think that's easier to understand or explain12:18
MortimeR_timeless_mbp: but the size of the image is 246951288 which cannot be explained with a nearly empty home and some shiny look12:19
timeless_mbpfor which? vanilla?12:19
timeless_mbpthe us one is something like 1.6gb12:19
MortimeR_timeless_mbp: yes ....12:19
mgedminI once unFIASCOed the eMMC image and found a 1 GB VFAT filesystem12:19
mgedminit was mostly empty, IIRC12:20
MortimeR_maybe it has some mp4s included?12:20
timeless_mbpand a movie or two typically12:20
timeless_mbp"mostly empty" is well... "mostly" not "entirely"12:20
MortimeR_mybe it contains garbage in the image. In this case it should be zeroed and compressed12:20
koala_mansnostorm: the watchdog one? that was fixed for me in the latest version12:20
timeless_mbpMortimeR_: maybe you shouldn't speculate?12:20
timeless_mbpit's a waste of everyone else's time12:21
MortimeR_anyway reflashing the OS just helped me to unbrick my n900 ;-)12:21
timeless_mbpvanilla doesn't mean "empty"12:21
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timeless_mbpit means "not specifically regionalized or vendorized or customized"12:21
mgedminjust mostly ;)12:21
mgedmin250 megs out or 28 gigs is pretty empty-ish, when you think about it12:21
* mgedmin should stop wasting time12:21
MortimeR_timeless_mbp: thx. I think I now have an impression what this is about. E.g. a network provider could customize/brand using this image... it is not required to boot/run the device12:22
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timeless_mbpMortimeR_: well, n900s don't usually come with vanilla12:23
timeless_mbpif you're in the us, you get the us version which has us maps12:23
timeless_mbpif you're in the nordic countries you probably get the nordic version which probably has nordic maps12:23
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MortimeR_<-- is currently connected via "expensive" 3G and I wanted to know if I also need to download the EMMC image after successfully flashing the PR_COMBINED image12:23
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timeless_mbpbut you could have just asked and saved a lot of trouble :)12:23
MortimeR_timeless_mbp: ;-)12:24
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timeless_mbpline 48 -- * Messages having warning level greated than this12:25
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MortimeR_timeless_mbp: can you provide me a hint where to start (URL) when I want to do some Qt4 coding. E.g. shall I use scratchbox or some other method?12:29
timeless_mbpno :)12:29 has qt and fremantle sources12:29
timeless_mbpthere's a #maemo-qt or something iirc12:29
timeless_mbpand how-to-write-qt-apps is left as an exercise12:30
MortimeR_timeless_mbp: thx anyway12:30
viukkis is decent12:30
timeless_mbpvikuuri: that's kinda shocking12:30
mecetimeless_mbp, Bug 891512:34
povbotBug When having an event open, a timezone change will not alter the time in the event being viewed as it should12:34
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X-FadeJaffa: MWKN is on planet now.12:35
woglindehi x-fade12:35
X-Fadehi woglinde12:37
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Troxwhere does the sdk installation script put the files it downloads ?12:43
Troxgot disconnected and now its trying to resume and fails12:43
Troxlet me put it this way, HEEEELPPPP!! :P12:44
mece1everything is failing for me right about now...12:44
Troxand what to delete those files it downloaded, WHERE ARE THEY!12:44
Troxand yes this scratchbox is damn weird12:44
Troxgives you errors in one terminal and works perfectly in another12:45
Troxmakes no sense at all :P12:45
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ifreqTrox: look into mirror :)12:47
Troxifreq : ok ok i also dont make sense sometimes :P12:48
Troxifreq : any idea where the sdk installation script puts the files it downloads ?12:49
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ifreqTrox: nope. I use the virtual SDK img12:52
ifreqso i dont hafty waste time on installing SDK separately12:52
Troxifreq : well , to me downloading 2gb is a waste of time.12:54
Troxand near impossible with this 256k download speed12:54
ifreqyou mean tou can solve the SDK problems faster than dl 2Gb f stuff?12:54
Troxyes, in less than a few days.12:55
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ifreqTrox: okay. ill ask you after few days :)12:57
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wazdHeya all13:02
Stskeepsmorning wazd13:03
woglindehi stskeep13:03
woglindehi wazd13:03
wazdStskeeps: seen my tabbl13:03
wazdStskeeps: table mockup?)13:03
wazdWoglinde: hey13:04
Stskeepswazd: nop?13:04
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wazdStskeeps: oooh13:07
wazdStskeeps: waitasec13:07
Stskeepswazd: didn't see you mention it before so :)13:07
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VDVsxwazd_, maePad ? :p13:08
zerojayX-Fade: Hey, welcome back.13:08
wazdVdvsx: nope :)13:09
wazdVdvsx: that's not my work :)13:09
zerojayAnyone besides X-Fade can pull down a package from the repos?13:09
X-Fadezerojay: yes.13:10
Stskeepswazd: and it's physically possible in html? :P13:10
wazdStskeeps: sure13:10
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Stskeepswazd: :nod: looks good, just wondering if it motivates people to actually click the contents though13:11
zerojayX-Fade: I want to have my Adblock Plus package removed from the repository completely. Microb's got too many issues with plugins/extensions.. and I have a new pacakge that will replace it with a different way of doing things that does work 100% of the time.13:11
wazdStskeeps: is it clickable? :D13:11
Stskeepswazd: the 50%13:12
Stskeeps | 5 stuff yes13:12
X-Fadezerojay: Is the new one in place already?13:13
wazdSTSkeeps: ah, haven't even thought about it actually :D13:13
Stskeepsas the stuff that's interesting is in those fields :P13:13
Stskeepsas numbers will just cause people to argue13:13
zerojayX-Fade: Yeah, a new package named adflashblock-css has already been uploaded last night.13:14
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wazdStskeeps: well, I guess I can come up with something13:14
X-Fadezerojay: You can use Replaces and Conflicts to make the switch for current users better?13:14
mairasX-Fade, any possibility of getting .sh uploads allowed on (sent you a mail about this a few mins ago)?13:14
zerojayX-Fade: I hadn't thought about that. Interesting idea.13:15
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zerojayX-Fade: I'll add that in tonight I guess.13:15
X-Fadezerojay: We can remove it of course after a while. But think of your exising users ;) (like me)13:15
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hendrytimeless_mbp: the firefox on maemo, how does one get a mouse pointer for text selections? keep activating the tab view.13:15 #mobile :)13:16
zerojayX-Fade: Heh.. I thought most of my existing users wanted to throw spears at me. :P13:16
wazdStskeeps: I guess I can make a layout with div's, not the tables, it's more flexible13:16
dazotimeless_mbp:  mece1: you're doing some calendar development?13:16
timeless_mbpdazo: if by that you mean calendar developer terrorism13:17
Stskeepswazd: only requirement i have is that i have to be able to print one 'table line' out at a time13:17
timeless_mbpor terrorizing13:17
dazotimeless_mbp:  heh ... well, do you provide patches to devels?  I'd like to look into the proper code .... (Admittedly, I've not spent much time going through all "getting the source code details" on m.o)13:18
timeless_mbpdazo: it's closed13:18
dazo:( :( :(13:18 has the open stuff, which doesn't include calendar13:18
dazotimeless_mbp:  ugh  ... the calendar and a hope that it was open was one particular reason why I got a N900 - so that I could help fixing annoyances .... as my SE-K800i calendar drove me crazy :-P13:20
timeless_mbpdazo: well, the frameworks are open13:20
timeless_mbpeds and friends13:20
X-Fademairas: Hmm let me see if I can change that.13:20
dazotimeless_mbp:  yeah ... do you know if there are plans to open the calendar code?13:21
timeless_mbpi'm sure there's a wiki page that answers that question13:21
mairasX-Fade, it should be a config option in the MediaWiki config files, IIRC13:21
dazotimeless_mbp:  oki .... thx ... I'll look for it13:21
timeless_mbpX-Fade: ...13:21
timeless_mbp28 Description: Calendar backend developer's files13:21
timeless_mbp29  This package contains calendar backend developer's files.13:21
X-Fademairas: Yes, added it there just now.13:21
mairasX-Fade, \o/13:22
* timeless_mbp loves the 'multiline' description13:22
wazdStskeeps: no problem13:22
dazotimeless_mbp:  thx a lot!  I'll dig into things ... and start the developer terrorising myself :P13:23
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: First line is short desc, second and onwards is the detailed one?13:23
timeless_mbpgood luck13:23
timeless_mbpX-Fade: not a particularly detailed one13:23
timeless_mbpbut that's the theory, yes13:23
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mairasX-Fade, hmm, now it's marked as an image13:23
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Sure, but developers don't mind probably.13:23
X-Fademairas: need to set mimetypes somewhere I think.13:24
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mecegrr argh! The interwebs keep getting away from me! Someone's messing with my cables!13:24
mairasX-Fade, I don't think it's about that13:24
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mairasit's just that MediaWiki thinks .sh files are images13:24
MiXu-Hmm. N900 creates duplicate contacts because of IM accounts. :/13:25
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ifreqmairas: why not paste sh content?13:25
mairasas the uploaded file ended up as
X-FadeMiXu-: You can merge them.13:25
MiXu-X-Fade: And then it will create new duplicates if I disable and re-enable an IM account. :P13:25
X-FadeMiXu-: No?13:25
mairasifreq, could do that but the script is a bit long and would be nicer to just provide it as a file13:25
meceWell I guess some buggy devel im software might do that though...13:26
ifreqmairas:  mv >
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MiXu-For me it's creating duplicates :P13:26
ifreqyou dont speak *nix??13:26
meceifreq, but the >13:26
ifreqah yeah13:26
mairasifreq, why would that help? text file uploads aren't supported any better13:26
ifreqmairas: sure? dang13:27
ifreqthen your ool13:27
MiXu-I'm using the default IM software with some additional protocols.13:28
meceMiXu-, which one is making duplicates?13:28
timeless_mbpcan anyone reproduce bug 8920? it wfm w/ my more recent verion13:28
povbotBug MicroB loses first keystroke13:28
MiXu-mece: MSN and Facebook at least.13:28
ifreqwhats the MSG plugin youre using?13:28
meceMiXu-, as I said, (1:26:07 PM) mece: Well I guess some buggy devel im software might do that though...13:29
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MiXu-mece: Yep. I'll try another one.13:29
ifreqim using felipes MSN pecan13:29
ifreqit works nicely13:29
meceI think pecan is the preferred one, but none is bug free13:29
ifreqpecan is most fixed one imo :P13:29
ifreqerr patched one13:29
MiXu-is pecan in the extras?13:29
ifreqdoubt it13:29
MiXu-Hmm. Apparently the dupes disappear when I disconnect from MSN/Facebook.13:30
MiXu-But I'll try the pecan13:31
meceMiXu-, see this thread: for possible issues or fixes.13:31
MiXu-Alrighty. Thanks.13:31
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Damion2is there a one liner that I can type instead of "make install && tar cf blah.tar /opt/blah" to leave me with a .deb I can hand to people?13:38
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X-FadeDamion2: dpkg-buildpackage ?13:40
zerojayNot exactly a one-liner, but simple.13:42
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ifreqDamion2: doubt it.13:43
ifreqDamion2: just do as jebba has documented:  google "jebba package maemo"13:43
woglindehand optified is mostly better13:45
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timeless_mbpLANG_NAME { id = ELangFinlandSwedish;13:46
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timeless_mbp33  *  purchase interface functions should be used first to finnish13:47
timeless_mbp34  *  purcahse operations before downloading the node content.13:47
* timeless_mbp sighs13:47
MiXu-Hmm. Ok. Looks better with pecan MSN plugin.13:48
timeless_mbpzerojay: and here i was going to give the language a free pass for being written by idiots who don't understand English rules on proper names13:48
timeless_mbpzerojay: have you read part one of my list?13:49
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ShadowJKtimeless: is that crappy locale reinvention followed by gibberish?13:50
timeless_mbp49                 /** UK English. */13:51
timeless_mbp50                 ELangEnglish = 1,13:51
timeless_mbp76                 /** American. */13:52
timeless_mbp77                 ELangAmerican = 10,13:52
timeless_mbpAmerican isn't English13:52
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timeless_mbplest you think i'm joking, c.f.13:52
timeless_mbp106                 /** Australian English. */13:52
timeless_mbp107                 ELangAustralian = 20,13:52
ShadowJKdo they have 4 variants of sami or none13:52
timeless_mbp139                 /** Peoples Republic of China's Chinese. */13:52
timeless_mbpnote that they can't spell People's correctly...13:53
timeless_mbpShadowJK: well they have 'Yoruba', but unless Sami has another spelling, i don't see it13:53
zerojaytimeless_mbp: No, I haven't.13:53
timeless_mbpcome on, the file won't bite ;-)13:53
zerojayNot so much in the way of bad words as much as they are common misspellings.13:54
ShadowJKI had perfect blood pressure last checkup. I think I'll pass on clicking anything with "symbian" in it13:54
MiXu-Good call13:55
ShadowJK(wanting to stay in a situation where I don't need to listen to the 1hour rant about excercise and fruit)13:55
timeless_mbpzerojay: sorry, in badwords?13:55
zerojaytimeless_mbp: No, in sislanguage.h13:57
zerojayLanguage = 1913:57
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ShadowJKhm, isn't flemish correct spelling? or are you supposed to call it something else?13:58
timeless_mbpi think most Americans would call it Dutch13:58
zerojayI've never once heard of Flemish.13:58
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MiXu-ShadowJK: I think that's correct13:59
viukkisAFAIK flemish is a slightly different dialect that is spoken in northern belgium13:59
ShadowJKI love interfaces that appear in a foreign (to you) language, but offer your own language too as long as you can guess what it is called in the foreign language first14:00
* timeless_mbp ponders "exteraction"14:00
timeless_mbpShadowJK: yeah, that's always nice14:00
timeless_mbpit's better in Maemo14:00
timeless_mbpafter you've properly found the place which has your language14:01
koala_manShadowJK: haha, totally14:01
timeless_mbpit then asks you a very long question in a language you *don't* speak14:01
timeless_mbpwhich you have to answer correctly in order for it to start speaking your language14:01
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ShadowJKatleast you *can* switch language more than once :)14:02
ShadowJKand don't need to make a permanent choice at first boot like certain other system14:03
zerojayWould you like to switch langauges? Oui/Nyet14:03
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MiXu-Permanen choice at first boot <314:03
timeless_mbpShadowJK: it's not like you can officially switch to a better language :)14:04
* timeless_mbp offers MiXu- a 't'14:04
MiXu-Thanks, I'm out.14:04
timeless_mbpa hint that something's wrong:14:04
RemosiI assume maemo bases it on LANG?  You could have different apps in different languages if you felt really adventurous14:05
timeless_mbp@param _foo_ where _foo_ doesn't appear in the subsequent lines14:05
timeless_mbpRemosi: one of those env vars, and yes14:05
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timeless_mbpin scratchbox people will do that once in a while14:05
Remosiyeah, thats the advantage of building on something as large as linux14:05
timeless_mbpthe reason you need a reboot is that there are too many daemons to usefully do anything with, each of which has an env var for the language14:05
timeless_mbpRemosi: or the disadvantage of building on something as lame as linux14:06
timeless_mbpdepends how you look at it :)14:06
timeless_mbps40 doesn't require a reboot14:06
RemosiI say tomato, you say tomato :)14:06
Remositelinit 1; telinit 214:06
Remosishould do it, although that's almost a reboot :)14:06
timeless_mbpif my phone call drops while you do that, i'm not happy :)14:06
StskeepsRemosi: that's based on the assumption maemo is reasonably sane14:06
RemosiStskeeps, maemo's been reasonably sane every other time I've tried to do something silly :)14:07
timeless_mbpline 146 -- EXPORT_C void CTaskManager::ExecuteRecoveryTasksL()14:07
timeless_mbpline 78 -- * In order to recover from fatal error, please use ExecutelRecoveryTasksL.14:07
* timeless_mbp is glad to see the comment suggests a functin that doesn't exist14:07
jophishHowdy all14:08
* ShadowJK would have assumed both existed, first did something bad, and second did something proper but was hidden somewhere comletely unrelated14:08
timeless_mbpif it's hidden, it isn't in one of the two modules i cloned14:10
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jophishWhat is the procedure on porting cli applications to Fremantle? If I have compiled the program for ARMEL and it works flawlessly on Fremantle, what's the next step if i want to share it with people. Presumable put it in the garage, and then what?14:11
jophishOK, thanks ShadowJK. How quickly do things get moved up to testing or extras?14:12
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ShadowJKto testing: your choice14:13
ShadowJKthen it needs a few random people to test it and give it thumbs up before you can promote it to extras14:14
jophishProbably as soon as possible. Just a ported application, so already feature complete.14:14
jophishSounds good. Thanks14:14
ShadowJKlook up extras-testing on wiki.maemo.org14:14
timeless_mbpline 87 -- * Equar or greater than -operator14:15
ruskiehmm fun... need to reflash again14:15
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crashanddiedon't you hate it when you just need to download 30 megs, but the ISP has a dodgy backbone?14:24
timeless_mbpnowhere near as bad as when you need to top off a 60gb rsync14:24
timeless_mbpand your employer's gateway makes it impossible14:25
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timeless_mbpi've tried 3 or 4 times14:25
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koala_manat least you'll get more data each time?14:25
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aquatixit rolls back?14:26
carloscesa@all does anybony knows how to activate the N900' front camera?14:26
timeless_mbpi think it's spending mb's on overhead not actually making any progress14:26
timeless_mbpcarloscesa: install an app that uses it14:26
crashanddiecarloscesa: with the mirror app?14:26
timeless_mbpor get a video call w/ google talk14:26
timeless_mbpthe software-stack wasn't ready enough for the first release so video call wasn't really exposed14:27 is down ???14:28
X-Fade_berto_: It is up, but I see some irq storms there.14:28
X-Fade_berto_: Really weird.14:28
timeless_mbp_berto_: you say that like it's a surprise14:28
timeless_mbpX-Fade: waiting for
_berto_timeless_mbp: maybe I was being ironic14:29
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crashanddie_berto_: no, you were being sarcastic, timeless_mbp was being ironic14:29
mecei like garage. I find it soothing.14:30
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meceThere's simply no point in hurrying things in garage, so one is forced to slow down.14:30
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mecegood therapy.14:30
timeless_mbpmece: i like the blank white page i get from it :)14:30
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aquatixgarage is zen14:31
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crashanddietimeless_mbp: for a jew, you're strangely ego-centric14:34
* RST38h moos thoughtfully14:34
* timeless_mbp ponders14:34
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17SAACSFJhy everybody14:35
carloscesatimeless, crashanddie I will try mirror app and other apps too. Thanks guys!14:35
crashanddie17SAACSFJ: turing test14:35
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crashanddie17SAACSFJ: what does your nickname mean?14:36
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cehtehwas the red led lit when video recording prior pr1.1? i cant remember14:37
meceam I supposed to have 2 hildon-home running?14:37
17SAACSFJcrashanddie: damn. guess my normal nicknames have all been taken. how do I change it now?14:37
mececrashanddie, yes mece or yes cehteh?14:38
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crashanddie17SAACSFJ: /nick username14:38
crashanddiemece: yes cehteh14:38
timeless_mbpcehteh: it's supposed to be14:38
timeless_mbpit's the "privacy led"14:39
timeless_mbpit means "i'm watching your panties"14:39
w00tdamn you, red LED14:39
timeless_mbpbecause every woman has eyes in the back of her panties, just looking for that red led...14:39
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w00tyou foiled my plans to embed an n900 into my shoes14:39
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aquatixtimeless_mbp: eyes in the ba- thanks for that mental picture...14:39
crashanddiewizcoder: congrats, you passed the test ;)14:40
cehtehtimeless: i hate it .. filming close objects gives a red tint, its way to bright14:40
timeless_mbpaquatix: sorry14:40
meceso does anyone else have 2 hildon-home running? Could you please confirm or deny? (ps | grep hildon-home)14:40
aquatixtimeless_mbp: :)14:40
RST38hBy the way, whoever is affected by this vote:
povbotBug 8890: Device becomes unlocked when plugged into charger14:40
RST38hShowed up in 51.114:41
cehtehand on every other camera you can turn off the red recording light14:41
wizcodercrashanddie: Better this way. don't want to have a name like r2d2 or other robots :-)14:41
RST38hcehteh: only makes sense if it can work in ir14:41
timeless_mbpcehteh: yeah well... when you have a daughter who is saved from embarrassment by it, you'll ... i dunno, probably break the n900 because it's probably being held by a boy ...14:41
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crashanddiecehteh: there's laws that make it mandatory14:41
timeless_mbpcehteh: i think some black tape works14:42
cehtehnot here in germany .. despite we have strange laws here too14:42
w00tstab the LED out!14:42
crashanddiecehteh: you are not the rest of the world14:42
cehtehtimeless: that would oover the flash leds too14:42
wizcoderYesterday I tried to sync my N900 with Google Caldender. It puts all the appointments in my calender and then gives me an error. Which means I can't save the session.14:42
crashanddiecan people please make some effort in writing "Calendar" properly?14:42
wizcoderVia Exchange Mails14:42
koala_manwizcoder: "Exchange server is not responding. Verify that account settings are correct."?14:43
dazo~ # ps ax | grep hildon-home14:43
dazo 7220 user      3936 S    /usr/bin/hildon-home14:43
dazo 7221 user     58896 S    /usr/bin/hildon-home14:43
dazo 8118 root      2092 S    grep hildon-home14:43
dazomece:  ^^^14:43
crashanddiedazo: please use a pastebin14:44
meceok thanks.14:44
wizcoderIt communicates with the server. And I get all appointments inserted correctly14:44
mecedazo, same for me.14:44
wizcoderBut no todo's. And then the error14:44
cehtehcrashanddie: just install emacs :P14:44
dazocrashanddie:  yeah, I usually do that ... I thought 4 lines was safe enough here14:44
timeless_mbpdazo: maemo is full of strange forking14:44
timeless_mbpyou get used to it14:44
crashanddiecehteh: just gtfo?14:44
timeless_mbpwizcoder: so...14:45
dazotimeless_mbp:  I'm not the one who wondered ... I just did what mece asked for :)14:45
crashanddiedazo: as long as it doesn't happen too often14:45
timeless_mbpi don't think google is officially supported by MfE14:45
mecedazo, I guess you don't have comic-widget installed?14:45
dazocrashanddie:  no, no!  I'll behave nicely! :)14:45
dazomece:  correct14:45
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mecedazo, ok. good. I was kinda worried that the widget was messing with hildon-home14:46
dazomece:  no prob :)14:46
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timeless_mbpwizcoder: how many days are you syncing?14:47
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wizcodertimeless_mbp: I think 14. Have some appointments that get repeated every week14:48
timeless_mbpwizcoder: try the shortest interval :)14:48
timeless_mbp"think baby steps"14:49
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wizcodertimeless_mbp: Trying...14:50
MiXu-Is there any way to align icons on the N900 desktop?14:50
timeless_mbpMiXu-: TweakR14:50
timeless_mbpor was it Tweakr?14:50
* timeless_mbp shrugs14:50
MiXu-I'll try that14:51
timeless_mbpwizcoder: somewhere in talk.m.o there's a post by the MfE owner14:51
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timeless_mbphe explains how to get logs if you want help14:51
timeless_mbpalso, are you using 51-1 or something older?14:51
timeless_mbp(older = much less interesting to everyone)14:51
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wizcodertimeless_mbp: 2 weeks is the shortest interval. searching for that post14:52
woglindehi florian14:52
floriangood morning14:52
woglindeflorian took you the blanket with you?14:52
timeless_mbpoh, ops14:52
florianwoglinde: sure14:52
timeless_mbpit's mail where you can do a 3 day window :)14:52
woglindeups false channel14:52
woglindeflorian okay fine14:52
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timeless_mbpthe last comment suggests 'syncevolution'14:54
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Corsachmmh, how often is karma refreshed?14:57
X-FadeCorsac: Should be once per 2 days, but something is stuck.14:58
infobotwoglinde has neutral karma14:58
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JaffaX-Fade: Thanks for sorting the blog feed. I'll have to sort the titles to be slightly more descriptive.15:05
X-FadeJaffa: It should update when you do that.15:06
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X-FadeJaffa: A good source for karma it seems :)15:06
JaffaX-Fade: Oh, cool15:06
JaffaX-Fade: Excellent :-)15:06
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wizcodertimeless_mbp: I read all the posts on that page. And deleting the calender on my n900 and syncing again worked.15:07
X-FadeJaffa: But I think it is a cool thing, you're off to a good start it seems.15:07
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timeless_mbpwizcoder: see, google is your friend :)15:07
timeless_mbppersonally, i'd probably consider the commercial thing that's listed somewhere in the thread. 25usd/year is not a big deal15:08
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JaffaX-Fade: Ta muchly15:10
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Damion2it's snowing!15:12
acidjazzsup guys15:13
acidjazzany new apps15:13
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Damion2now I can view my photos on my ps3 with ease and no syncing required15:13
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JaffaDamion2: It's been snowing here (Rugby) for a few hours, getting heavier but not sticking.15:14
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Damion2oh, you're where time comes from15:16
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* Stskeeps ponders what drug-induced trauma caused people to create Xorg.15:17
JaffaDamion2: Not anymore :-(15:17
timeless_mbpStskeeps: do you remember Xfree?15:17
JaffaDamion2: A couple of years ago it moved to, errr, Cumbria.15:17
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yes, Xorg is following in it's proud steps15:17
* timeless_mbp wonders what possessed someone to name a variable:
Damion2yesterday my battery was draining like the clappers and I saw a 75% cpu job in top which I'd started the day before (my mistake).  I killed it but it dawned on me that it might be good for some sort of warning/alarm if the battery discharge rate is higher than a configurable threshold15:19
timeless_mbpDamion2: "you're using flash"15:21
timeless_mbpDamion2: roughly, while the problem is indeed interesting15:21
timeless_mbpsolving it is painful15:21
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timeless_mbpbecause on average a runaway process happens while you aren't looking15:22
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timeless_mbpif you aren't looking (or aren't even physically close)15:22
timeless_mbpthen most notifications are a further waste of cpu resources15:22
timeless_mbpnow, there is a cpu meter you can install15:22
timeless_mbpbut it of course uses cpu resources :)15:22
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timeless_mbpthe best proposal i had for this was roughly:15:23
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timeless_mbp1. the system calculates how much life it gets on your first couple of charges15:23
marmoutetimeless_mbp: but this cpu meter doesn't use resources when the screen is locked isn't it.15:23
timeless_mbp2. it takes that as a baseline15:23
timeless_mbpmarmoute: does that help when there's a runaway process in the background? :)15:24
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Damion2timeless_mbp: no I had a task I started, it was my fault15:24
Damion2alarm could be audible15:24
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timeless_mbpDamion2: sure, you can use the cpu meter15:24
timeless_mbpbut mostly what will happen is "you're using flash"15:24
Damion2yeah that would have been red, but I've not instaleld that15:24
rosheniahi! can  i send mms via fmms from contacts?15:25
timeless_mbpafter watching a few movies, you'll quickly turn it off15:25
w00ttimeless_mbp: if the screen turns off, and there's still a task chomping away?15:25
w00ttimeless_mbp: that seems like a better category for alarms15:25
Damion2I don't tend to leave browser running, does flash get in a state and stay running as an orphaned daemon sometimes?15:25
timeless_mbpDamion2: not generally15:25
Damion2yeah this might only help me15:25
timeless_mbpbut the point is that if you actually set an alarm for strictly "high cpu usage"15:25
timeless_mbpit'd trigger everytime you watched any movie15:26
Damion2I could do some shell script reading the hardware battery settings15:26
timeless_mbpwhich should obviously be fairly useless15:26
timeless_mbpand incredibly annoying15:26
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Damion2w00t: not a bad idea15:26
Damion2screen blank = shouldn't be churning15:26
w00tthere are still exceptions to that15:26
w00tbut nowhere near as many15:26
timeless_mbpDamion2: but again, if you aren't nearby, do you really want it complaining?15:27
w00tprobably enough to make it a usable case15:27
w00ttimeless_mbp: are you ever away from your n900? :P15:27
timeless_mbpthe watchdog you write can be more expensive and annoying than the process you dislike15:27
Damion2I pondered having a bg job to ffmpeg my .mp4 videos I've just taken, in to something more compatible with stuff15:27
timeless_mbpw00t: yes15:27
w00tmine hasn't left my side, ever, since I got it15:27
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MiXu-Mine neither ;)15:27
w00teven in the shower! (ok, that's a joke)15:27
Damion2timeless_mbp: like I said this might only work for me, but personally I'm _never_ away from my n90015:27
timeless_mbpi sometimes leave it at the office (charging)overnight because we're in a hurry to get dinner and i forget to grab it15:27
Damion2ignoring oncall rota, I don't tend to have it further than a shelf if taking a shower15:27
w00tDamion2: same15:28
timeless_mbpyou guys are strange :)15:28
Damion2timeless_mbp: you don't receive phonecalls?15:28
timeless_mbpnot typically :)15:28
rosheniahi! can  i send mms via fmms from contacts?15:28
timeless_mbpbetween 10pm and 10am?15:28
Damion2roshenia: I don't know if it's integrated, perhaps not.  I dont' know15:28
timeless_mbpbesides, i have 2 phones for the same line15:28
timeless_mbpso i can use the other one :)15:28
Damion2timeless_mbp: yes15:28
rosheniaDamion2, yes. i think it now not integrate15:29
Damion2how can I detect the screen shut?  I'm pretty sure I was able to cat /sys/somethingorother/state and get open/closed15:29
Damion2but that doesn't work now like it does the keyboard slider15:29
w00ttimeless_mbp: i use my n900 -a lot- :P15:29
timeless_mbpw00t: my phone bill's bigger than yours :-v15:30
w00ttimeless_mbp: undoubtedly, but that's because I use wifi most of the time, and all my texts are free15:30
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w00t(actually, I don't even pay my phonebill, my employer does \o/)15:30
timeless_mbpyou don't text internationally?15:30
w00t(which is great, as I accidentally ran up a £100 3G bill recently)15:30
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timeless_mbpmy employer objected to my last 3 phone bills :(15:30
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w00tI *used* to text internationally, but now that I'm living with the person I used to text, not so much, no15:31
crashanddiemy worst bill ever: gbp180015:31
viukkislet that be a lesson about the possible side effects of texting15:31
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timeless_mbpat what exchange against the eur? :)15:31
Damion2for what period?15:31
timeless_mbp1month of course15:31
crashanddieone month15:31
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Damion2all my friends got an iphone on o2 and my calls to o2 are free15:32
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure my bill trumps crashanddie 's :(15:32
w00ttimeless_mbp wins.15:32
timeless_mbpDamion2: typically when you get high bills, you're roaming15:32
timeless_mbpe.g. i roamed for a month w/ a pair of plans/n900s15:32
Damion2I'm about to spend 3 weeks abroad15:32
timeless_mbppick up local sim's15:32
nicuhi guys, can someone point me to a plugin (or something which works over dbus) which enables scrobbiling on the default media-player on the n900?15:32
crashanddieI spent a month in the Ukraine15:32
Damion2I plan on getting PAYG out there as only a fool would pay roaming ;)15:33
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: i only spent a week there and my bill was bigger than yours15:33
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timeless_mbpDamion2: well, some of us fools have employers15:33
crashanddietimeless_mbp: i reiterate my point from earlier15:33
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* timeless_mbp is stupid ?15:33
crashanddieabout ego15:34
timeless_mbpoh, i normally don't get into pissing contests15:34
crashanddiewell, you've been doing that all night as far as I can tell15:34
timeless_mbpit's just that when people get distracted, i'd rather finish things and move them along15:34
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SpeedEvilpeople getting distracted during pissing contests is indeed bad.15:39
timeless_mbpwhat happens if you press the <= icon in the browser toolbar today (51-1)?15:40
tybolltyou get a bunch of thumbnails15:40
rosheniais it real to write programs in windows for maemo?15:41
MiXu-I wish there was an on screen button in the microB for "back".15:41
tybollttimeless_mbp: (which frankly pisses me off, I want to be able to go straight backwards and not have to deal w/ the thumbnails, but meh)15:41
w00ttybollt: backspace key on the keyboard15:41
timeless_mbptybollt: that's changing15:41
timeless_mbphence my needing to ask what it does today15:41
timeless_mbpheck, where is it on your toolbar?15:41
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rosheniai wanna write software for maeo15:42
MiXu-backspace works, sure, but you don't always have the keyboard out when surfing15:42
w00tnext to stop, timeless_mbp15:42
rosheniabut i havent linux15:42
SpeedEviltimeless: shows current page - in the event that there is only one page in the current session - or the current page and last page on a scrolly15:42
w00tstop, arrow back, fullscreen button15:42
koala_manroshenia: get the vmware image15:42
tybollttimeless_mbp: second to the bottom right15:42
timeless_mbpw00t: thanks15:42
rosheniakoala_man, hm. its sux =(15:42
koala_manroshenia: develope in python on windows15:43
w00troshenia: you can always use Qt to develop on windows, and then test later in the VM15:43
w00t(either via pyside/pyqt or directly via Qt creator in C++)15:43
MiXu-There's something called MADDE that you can use to cross compile Qt in windows environment.15:43
lopzhi ;>15:43
MiXu-Haven't tried it though.15:43
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w00tMADDE is great, but it won't make it easy unless you have a device to put the binaries on15:44
w00t(I use MADDE)15:44
MiXu-I haven't got around to installing MADDE yet.15:46
MiXu-w00t: Do you know of a good howto for it?15:46
w00tMiXu-: MADDE? it's very, very easy15:47
w00ttake a look at
MiXu-Ok, thanks15:47
w00tif you're using Qt, also see
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acidjazzwhy is ovi maps free now15:52
acidjazzand why are ppl downloading it15:52
acidjazzwhen are ppl gonna find out it doesnt work15:52
woglindeacidjazz fo symbian its working15:52
acidjazzwhy is it so fail on maemo15:52
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Damion2why is ovi maps so sluggish with click drag scrolling?15:54
wazd_acidjazz: 4215:54
wazd_Damion2: 4215:54
Damion2it's otherwise a quite okay app for maemo and s60, but it feels awful compared to google maps for your low attention span 5min check out of the app15:54
acidjazzwazd_: lol wat15:55
wazd_acidjazz: that's why Ovi maps for maemo are "so fail"15:55
Damion2he's answering all questions with the answer to the meaning of life the universe and everything15:55
wazd_acidjazz: 4215:55
acidjazzblue 42?15:55
Damion2it's from a dull book by douglas adams15:55
Damion2which people rave about15:55
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acidjazzis that gonna be the quote from conan the barbarian aquatix15:56
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acidjazzhitchhikers guide to the whatnot15:56
acidjazzi need to see that again15:56
aquatixbetter read the book15:57
aquatixit's funnier15:57
MiXu-I didn't like the movie :P15:57
aquatixmovie was disappointing indeed15:57
MiXu-I haven't read the book, so stuff just felt totally random.15:57
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pupnikFOSDEM is great!15:58
rangepupnik: Are you still drunk from the beer event? >:)15:59
range<- recovering.16:00
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pupnikheh missed it16:00
pupnikwas it fu16:00
Damion2I thought the new H2G2 film was better than the radio show which was better than the tv show, all of which were better than the book16:01
Damion2but that's just me16:01
timeless_mbptybollt: do you get bugmail for 7002?16:01
pupnikwhat were your favorite points?16:01
timeless_mbpline 145 -- // the total number of didits16:01
rangepupnik: Parts of it. Mostly it was too crowded (especially as there were loads of people not connected with Fosdem at all in the bar).16:02
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tybollttimeless_mbp: Pardoinez moi?16:02
timeless_mbptybollt: if you don't, you don't :)16:02
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crashanddietybollt: "Pardonnez-moi?"16:02
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tybolltcrashanddie: jajaja16:02
pupnikis there a central fosdem sire for the lectures i missed?16:03
crashanddieyes sire16:03
* tybollt nods to timeless_mbp - it would seem I do not.16:03
timeless_mbptybollt: i just need to ensure that my final comment is clear as mud to everyone16:03
timeless_mbpi do not want to see another comment in that bug16:03
tybolltclear as mud, roger that wilco16:03
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timeless_mbpthanks :)16:05
tybollttimeless_mbp: hell yes, that is exactly it, cool.16:05
* tybollt reading now16:05
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rangepupnik: eventually.16:06
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tybolltfact is the "swipe left" one is so intuitive I actually tried that (however in vain :)16:06
rangepupnik: But not all were recorded afair.16:06
timeless_mbptybollt: glad to hear you approve of the ui designer's view16:07
Fargus_Anyone online with experienceon using MADDE?16:07
timeless_mbpif i see him this week and remember, i'll mention that someone agreed16:07
tybollt"so we're going to try to do what you16:07
timeless_mbphe should smile for a moment :)16:07
tybollt(the real customers) want"16:07
tybollta developer actually working on something _the customer_ want!?16:07
timeless_mbpwell, we (babu, myself) tried16:07
timeless_mbpbut in this case, the ui designer prevailed, and i think it turns out for the right reasons16:08
w00tI agree with the designer as well, actually16:08
tybollt(No no, I'm not cynical and bitter , not at all ;)16:08
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timeless_mbpw00t: yeah, when i'm not sick/exhausted, i do too16:08
timeless_mbpthe rest of the time it's too complicated for me16:08
* w00t pats timeless_mbp16:08
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* timeless_mbp taps forhead (eHOT) and pats stomach (eUPSET)16:09
* tybollt thanks timeless - that was an exhaustive reply to that16:09
RST38hwhat did I miss?16:09
timeless_mbpi was asked to do it wednesday or thursday16:09
w00ttimeless telling us that he's hot, apparantly16:09
timeless_mbpbut thursday i was on my way to paris16:09
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timeless_mbpand friday i was sick in paris16:10
tybolltRST38h: back button in microb actually taking you back instead of going to thumbnailmode16:10
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N900evilnot here16:10
acidjazzwhy dont we have ovi maps racing16:11
timeless_mbpN900evil: we're talking about the future16:11
timeless_mbpit's on mine16:11
RST38htybollt: it does?16:12
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tybolltRST38h: future tense... it _will_ (hopefully) do...16:12
libbensick, i only get connection problem when i try to rdc to my workstation, i can do rdc from home to my workstation. I even tried thru my wifi and by 3g, get connection problem everytime i try to connect with rdesktop. real weird.16:12
wizcoderhow do I enable extre-devel. site seems to be down. (googled it :-) )16:14
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tybolltbtw timeless_mbp - I will make sure to take you up on the offer offered in the final post in that bug... I mean you do start "feel free to" ;-)16:15
hrwConboy is good tool to write blog posts16:15
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timeless_mbpfine w/ me :)16:15
hrw is next one written during fosdem trip16:16
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MohammadAGinfobot's dead16:16
MohammadAG(that's what methinks)16:16
tybolltoh I thought it just hated me ;)16:16
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RST38htybollt: ah it won't16:16
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libbenwizcoder: ^^16:16
tybolltRST38h: why do you say that?16:17
ClaudiusHi there,16:17
* RST38h wonders when MicroB will memorize his Ctrl+Shift+I setting though16:17
RST38htybollt: empyrical data16:17
MohammadAG~curse closed source software16:17
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infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, closed source software !16:17
tybolltRST38h: tssk tssk, have a little faith in timeless now :)16:17
ClaudiusUpdating extras-testing and the normal maemi repositories time out for me. Anything known there? shall I use the espejo-mirror?16:17
ShapeshifterSo I got my n900 today - happy I am. But I can't use 3G internet for some reason. It shows me full bars on 3G, and my SIM is brand new. when I want to connect to 3G (or any cellular I mean), it says "Internet connection failed. Try again?"16:17
RST38htybollt: meh.16:18
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acidjazzShapeshifter: wha tservice16:18
acidjazzwhat service*16:18
MohammadAGShapeshifter, APN wrong?16:18
SpeedEvilapesh: can you make calls?16:18
Damion2Shapeshifter: sounds like your carrier or apn16:18
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: the syntax is s/x/b/ the trailing slash is mandatory16:18
ClaudiusChiming in on the "Got my N900 today" tune :) I'm trying to add another GPRS APN, but if i hit "NEW" in the Internet connection settings it let's me only add another WiFi AP.16:18
Damion2Shapeshifter: lock to 2g in phone settings, if that works your carried is being lame16:19
derfThat sums up Maemo Mapper pretty well: "Worked good in OS2008 but newer version totally broken."16:19
tybollttimeless_mbp: regarding "back is dangerou"... well why should my phone be any "safer" than my computer? :)16:19
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RST38hderf: Maep16:19
timeless_mbpRST38h: what the heck is ctrl-shift-i?16:19
Shapeshifterokay thanks guys I'll check the settings16:19
derfI blame Google for hiring gunite.16:19
RST38hArkenoi: Here?16:19
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: capital tab?16:19
timeless_mbptybollt: your computer is safer because things are more spread out16:19
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RST38hderf: honestly Maemo Mapper has been having problems since switching to sqlite16:20
derfRST38h: According to that post Maep has no pre-downloaded maps, so it's useless to me.16:20
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RST38hderf: it seems to have pre downloaded maps, at least it does not download map until I go out of shown range16:20
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derfRST38h: Can I download a given area in advance and tell it not to use the network after that?16:21
RST38hderf: I think you can, by zooming/scrolling16:21
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RST38hderf: there is no dedicated UI for this though16:21
derfRST38h: That's a non-starter.16:21
acidjazzi feel a good poo comin along16:21
derfI am not zooming and scrolling through an entire city.16:22
hrwRST38h: ctrl+shift+i?16:22
SpeedEviltangogps can do that16:22
RST38hhrw: enables reflow-on-zoom16:22
RST38hhrw: a good replacement to fit-to-width option from Maemo4, but not saved in the config like Ctrl+Shift+O16:22
* ifreq waits for gl es navi for n90016:23
Stskeepsderf: make a patch16:23
derfStskeeps: I have my own projects, thanks.16:23
* RST38h doubts Maep author will accept a patch16:23
ShapeshifterDamion2: oh, my carrier doesn't do 2g ;)16:23
Shapeshifteracidjazz: orange switzerland. I checked the settings and they're okay.16:24
derfI submitted patches for maemo-mapper, but that was because I knew the author personally.16:24
SpeedEvilThere are real issues with swamping the OSM tileservers with a popular app that doenloads stuff16:24
tybollttop story of "tomshardware" "VIDEO: Duke Nukem 3D Meets Wiimote, N900 "16:24
SpeedEvilThe right way is to setup your own tileserver - but this is non-trivial16:24
derfAnd because I'd been using it for a year until he broke it during the sqlite conversion.16:24
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Arkenoirst38h: yep16:26
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dnaumovok this is weird, I added extras-devel to my list of repos, but before I even had a chance to download or install anything, it broke my app manager16:26
jophishhmm, Is it just me, or is inaccessible?16:27
Arkenoiah.5th version of conversation inbox. i preferred the second one.16:27
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X-Fadejophish: kernel issue, working on it.16:27
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jophishSure. thanks very much16:27
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dnaumovaccording to the log, apt-worker exits because it cannot truncate /var/lib/hildon-application-manager/apt-worker-lock: Read-only file system16:28
dnaumovrebooting the phone doesnt help16:28
SpeedEvil / full?16:28
dnaumoveven if I take the battery out16:28
dnaumovno, filesystems have lots of space16:29
jophishdnaumov, have you moved /var/lib/ anywhere?16:29
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dnaumovmemory management says I have 1,75gb of space available for apps and over 26gb for other stuff16:29
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dnaumovand no I havent moved or changed fs layout16:29
hrwRST38h: ah. that16:29
jophishI guess you could try to remove that file in the terminal16:29
Damion2Shapeshifter: you're not with "3" are you ?16:29
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LuciusMarehello, can you point me to a guide how to change the video that is played on booting?16:33
ifreqits on tmo16:33
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: / full!16:34
LuciusMareifreq: oh, thanks16:34
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: root is only <250MB16:34
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: /var resides on / by default16:34
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Damion2LuciusMare: try the top link on :
tybolltDamion2: bitly... tinyurl... etc :)16:36
dnaumovDocScrutinizer: my / is 75% in use16:36
dnaumovover 56mb available16:36
dnaumovyet, it seems to be readonly for some reason16:36
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: ooh. then it's not full evidentally16:36
Damion2tybollt: also the whole point would have been missed, of directly c+p the question and the top answer being the guide...16:37
DocScrutinizerthat's rather strange16:37
dnaumovI cant write anything to /var/lib16:37
DocScrutinizerI'd say run fsck on on it. But then wait, fsck the / ? :-/16:37
LuciusMareand, what format should it be?16:37
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: you did switch to root user?16:38
Damion2it'll probably play anything the normal media player can play16:38
dnaumovsudo gainroot'ed16:38
LuciusMarelet's hope i don't screw up with avi16:38
Damion2LuciusMare: basic h264 aac16:38
LuciusMarewhat could happen if it gone wrong? it wont render my tablet unbootable,right?16:39
Damion2avi if h263/4 with mp3 /may/ work if DIVX tagged16:39
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: a plain "root" is better afaik. but wouldn't make for your error16:39
Damion2LuciusMare: I can't guarentee it wouldn't prevent booting16:39
Damion2however it's highly unlikely, much more likely it;ll skip it and carry on16:39
Damion2make sure it plays in the media player16:39
ifreqLuciusMare: put 90min porn movie on boot16:40
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: check 'mount'. is the fs ro ?16:40
Damion2and dmesg to see if it remounted ro on errors16:41
LuciusMare seems nice16:41
DocScrutinizerDamion2: that's the conclusion then, yes16:41
dnaumovfstab says that rootfs is mount RO in case of an error16:42
dnaumovso I am guessing I have some fs error that forces it to mount it in RO mode16:42
DocScrutinizerthough usually that part will have left the buffer of dmsg most likely16:42
Damion2that's worrying16:42
SpeedEvilecho fish >/root/foo16:42
SpeedEvilsee if it's in fact RO16:42
X-FadeJaffa: ping?16:42
dnaumovSpeedEvil: it is16:42
Damion2LuciusMare: you can sit and wait 10 seconds?16:43
jophishIn all the examples for developing applications, they tend to repeat all the commands. first for i386, then for armel. why is this?16:43
Damion2when you do the echo what error do you get and what does dmesg show?16:43
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: use 'mount', not fstab16:43
LuciusMareDamion2: but it looks cool ^^16:43
Damion2jophish: sensible, testable good development.  Me I knock up an arm and run it on my phone ;)16:43
Damion2LuciusMare: it's nice16:44
jophishDamion2, exactly what I am doing at the moment16:44
dnaumovdmesg isnt pretty16:44
LuciusMarei am actually worried about the size of 2.2 mb16:44
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Damion2LuciusMare: better than the paedophile snatching the little girls hand16:44
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: dmesg uses a buffer slightly larger than 512 bytes :-/16:45
Damion2I guess the daily mail doesn't spread it's hype to Finland16:45
dnaumovalso obviously I cant edit fstab16:45
dnaumovsince its on / which is RO16:46
dnaumovfun times16:46
LuciusMareYou pervert, it was supposed to be...nevermind.16:46
dnaumovhow do I force a remount in readwrite mode?16:46
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: probably your best bet is to copy all the files from / to backup. then reflash root, then copy back the backup16:46
Damion2dnaumov: I think you're screwed, reflash necessary16:46
Damion2dnaumov: I don't know (and doubt) whether there is a fsck for it16:46
dnaumovwtf? nice16:46
dnaumovI didnt even install any -devel software16:47
Damion2if you want to risk playing, you can try mount -o remount,rw /16:47
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DocScrutinizerdnaumov: shit happens16:47
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DocScrutinizerour *great* ubifs, eh?16:48
Damion2or he has a faulty chip?16:48
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DocScrutinizerthat'd be rally nasty16:48
Damion2which? forcing remount or finding a bad chip?  he's got a warrenty16:48
SpeedEvilIt would be nice perhaps if you could zip up a raw ubifs image and send it to the fs peeps.16:49
SpeedEvilbut I'm not sure there is a onennanddump16:49
Damion2dd and netcat16:49
DocScrutinizerbad chip16:49
SpeedEvildd won't get you the raw chip16:49
SpeedEvilit's not a block device16:49
Damion2DocScrutinizer: actually it's better for us as it means ubifs isn't flakey16:49
dnaumovDamion2: the manual remount did nothing16:49
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Damion2dnaumov: what did dmesg |tail show ?16:49
Damion2SpeedEvil: oh yes16:49
Damion2SpeedEvil: point16:50
Damion2SpeedEvil: okay tar cf - / |nc ;)16:50
Damion2with various params for not leaving the filesystem16:50
SpeedEvilDamion2: that doesn't tell you anything interesting about the fs16:50
Damion2doh, sorry yes16:50
Damion2you sure there isn't a dd able block ?16:50
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SpeedEvilAs far as I understand, no.16:51
Damion2what about that thing which has a 2MB partition with NILO at the start ?16:51
dnaumovthe end of dmesg shows a lot of errors like "UBIFS error (pid 1509) ubifs_create and ubifs_reservation both complain about being unable to reserve xxx bytes in jhead 1, error -3016:51
DocScrutinizerthere should be a number of ubitools though, no?16:51
SpeedEvilIt is of course really a block device - but the sectors are not a power of 2, and there is out-of-band data that's potentially important16:51
Damion2dnaumov: odd, as I've completely filled mine and saw no ill effect16:51
SpeedEvilis it actually full?16:52
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: anyway that dmesg errors probably help a lot for a ticket16:52
Damion2SpeedEvil: it says no16:52
DocScrutinizerso *plenty* of room16:53
ShapeshifterDamion2: nah, I'm with orange.16:53
ShapeshifterSo, is there something like ifconfig on the n900? I need to know my wlan IP.16:53
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Shapeshifterand ifconfig is missing.16:53
Damion2orange without 2g data ?16:53
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: ifconfig16:54
ShapeshifterDamion2: orange switzerland only offers 3g16:54
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zaheermyou can also install personal ip address from app manager16:54
ShapeshifterDamion2: ah, sbin is not in path....16:55
DocScrutinizeryup, quite handy16:55
DocScrutinizerfor root, nope16:55
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DocScrutinizererr "for user"16:55
DocScrutinizerfor root yes it is16:55
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: yep, thanks16:56
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DocScrutinizerwho asked for a "deadly laser" in N920 yesterday?   I killed a moth with my deadly green laserpointer ;-P16:58
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LuciusMarewtf??? 86% of / filled!16:59
Shapeshifteroh this is so sweet.16:59
tybolltas much fun as that is..16:59
hrwLuciusMare: move /var/cache/apt and /var/lib/apt/ to somewhere else16:59
HukkaOr maybe it's surprising that it isn't full :)16:59
tybolltapparently the green lasers is becomming a real problem16:59
Shapeshifterssh'ing into my servers within minutes. how brilliant16:59
* Shapeshifter hugs his n900.16:59
tybolltw/ kids lasering traffic airliners...16:59
LuciusMareShapeshifter: how do you do that? it is kinda hard, because n900 is so small...17:00
DocScrutinizertybollt: ack. idiots17:00
tybolltDocScrutinizer: indeed...17:00
ShapeshifterLuciusMare: what do you mean? 1. install ssh, 2. ? 3. profit!17:00
LuciusMarehrw: what about optifying?17:00
LuciusMareShapeshifter: i meant the hugging17:00
ShapeshifterLuciusMare: ah xD17:00
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LuciusMareShapeshifter: you know, full body hug is pretty hard, because the n900 tends to fall down your arms17:01
LuciusMarei have tried17:01
tybolltye me too, it drops too easily :(17:01
mgedminn900 -> shirt pocket; lean down to tie your shoelaces -> n900 on the floor :(17:01
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: you do that once in your live. or you're retarded ;-)17:02
tybolltmgedmin: bend over can to hurl -> (at the time) nokia 8110 in the toilet ;D17:02
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LuciusMarewell, unless you lean with your legs fully stretched, it was not that high17:03
mgedmina similar accident taught me to never use phone cases that clip onto your belt17:03
tybolltyup, when I told my boss the next they he said (and I quote) "Huh, what the fuck, I ought to punch you right on the nose!"17:03
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hrwLuciusMare: do however you want17:04
mgedminwas it his phone?17:04
tybolltmgedmin: company paid for my phones at the time :)17:04
DocScrutinizermgedmin: (clip to belt) mine has an additional securing flap17:04
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_berto_garage still down ? :)17:05
jophish_berto_, not to me17:05
LuciusMarehrw: what is in /var/lib/apt/ ?17:05
hrwLuciusMare: lists dir which keeps informations about repositories contents17:05
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DocScrutinizertybollt: water usually isn't any harmful, if you remove bat *immediately* and then gently dry the device for days/weeks17:05
_berto_jophish: ah, now it worked17:06
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LuciusMareDocScrutinizer: friend of mine once dropped his (playing) phone into the pool...17:06
X-Fade_berto_: It is very slow, with a load of 0.2.. Something is going on there, trying to find out what.17:06
LuciusMareHe just sat and listened to it playing underwater17:06
tybolltDocScrutinizer: an 8110 soaking in a can full of whatever-I-ate-that-day mixed w/ quantities of beer, wine and kosken? Dude you could not pay me to use that thing again ;)17:06
DocScrutinizernot a technical issue17:07
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: yup. normal. but it will get stained traces and contacts very quickly, if you don't remove any voltage17:08
Lumpio-Falling N900 issues, eh17:08
Lumpio-I was very disappointed not to get a lanyard with my N900 >:I17:09
Lumpio-Or I might have lost it before I even found it from the packaging17:09
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DocScrutinizerthere was no lanyard17:09
Shapeshifterwhy does the app manager "update" everytime you load it. does it do apt-get update everytime?17:09
Shapeshifterand other stuff17:09
cvandonderenwhat else than DNS can go wrong in the Scratchbox to not have DNS?17:09
Lumpio-Nobody ever uses the cheap lanyards that come with devices but if it has a hole for one it damn well better come with one!17:09
cvandonderenmy resolv.conf is correct17:09
cvandonderenand I have network17:09
LuciusMareoptifying /var/lib/apt/ and /var/cache/apt/ = WIN17:10
mgedminShapeshifter, afaiu it reads the apt database (which is a bunch of flat text files and takes a looong time to load)17:10
LuciusMareon 7317:10
ifreqcvandonderen: virtual sdk olr oure owsystem?17:10
mgedminmaybe computes dependencies and stuff17:10
LuciusMareon 73%17:10
DocScrutinizeroptifying /var = WIN^217:10
mgedminI'm probably wrong about the bunch of flat text files thing -- apt has a bunch of binary caches17:10
LuciusMare / on 7317:10
LuciusMarei mean.17:10
cvandonderenifreq: Windows -> VBox image -> scratchbox17:10
mgedminthat don't seem to speed things up very much ...17:10
Lumpio-The app manager takes srs ages to start up with anything besides the default repos17:11
Lumpio-(Which have about 50 packages)17:11
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Shapeshiftermgedmin: humm okay17:11
cvandonderenifreq: any idea?17:11
LuciusMarehm, do you think that symlinking the boot video located in mydocs to /usr/share/hildon-welcome/media is a good idea?17:12
cvandonderenifreq: got it17:12
Lumpio-The boot video is in MyDocs? o_O17:13
LuciusMaremy custom  boot video17:13
Lumpio-Oh, the other way round17:13
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: symlinking the luke video to something really cool is a better idea ;-P17:13
ifreqcvandonderen: good.17:13
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DocScrutinizeraah obviously that's what you're about to do17:14
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LuciusMarewish me luck17:14
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* DocScrutinizer crosses fingers17:15
Damion2Shapeshifter: apart from the fact that it was telnet with the 9000 and 1998 and 9110 for the next few years, I've been sshing in to servers for _many_ years.  If anything the n900 is a slight step back frmo the e90/n9717:15
Damion2mydocs is mounted by the time the video plays?17:15
LuciusMarei just copied it17:16
dnaumovgreat, Nokia in its great wisdom has apparently decided to make the root filesystem "ubifs" instead of ext2/ext3 and there is no fsck for ubifs...17:16
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Lumpio-ubifs is more flash memory friendly, isn't it?17:16
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: that's what we told you17:16
LuciusMarednaumov: nokians are creatures trying to bring down any tries to use their products17:16
LuciusMareare NOT creatures17:16
LuciusMarei meant, they have their reasons17:16
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DocScrutinizerthere's areason to have ubifs rather than ext2/3 on NAND17:17
tybolltDamion2: I've used ssh on SE P series since P800 days so =)17:18
DocScrutinizerNAND is a bitch17:18
tybolltno I quite like Nan(d) actually17:18
tybolltway better than popadums17:18
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Damion2LuciusMare: your startup video?17:19
Damion2that'll take a while and people around will laugh at the audio17:19
LuciusMarewell, better than the acidjazz17:19
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Damion2tybollt: 2003?17:20
timeless_mbpsp3000: yes?17:20
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sp3000timeless_mbp: the tone was imo uncalled for17:21
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sp3000at least in any visible context17:21
sp3000I'm not the only one who was confused by it17:21
tybolltDamion2: sorry no, our exchange server is 2007 to the best of my knowledge17:21
tybolltyou mean the P80017:21
* DocScrutinizer envisions "DONT PANIC" fading from red to "friendly letters" in orange17:22
DocScrutinizeralas no idea how to create a mp4 for that17:22
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Damion2I think you can do that with mencoder and a text subtitle file17:24
Damion2or kino with kinoplus plugins even easier17:24
DocScrutinizernever used those17:25
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Texwhere's the best place to put compiled applications for n900 ?17:26
DocScrutinizer - /opt17:26
DocScrutinizeralas :-S17:26
Texas in should i move the files as if dpkg was installing a debian package17:26
Texlike etc and bin.17:26
Texoh ok.17:27
DocScrutinizeryou need symlinks from /bin17:27
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Texln ?17:27
Damion2I built with --prefix=/opt/mypkgname but then /opt/mypkgname/bin needs a symblink in /usr/bin17:27
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Texthanx a lot.17:28
Texbut wait, you're compiling using your n900 ?17:28
infobotit has been said that optification is a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR17:28
timeless_mbpsp3000: *sigh*17:29
timeless_mbpi just don't want further 'contributions' in that bug17:29
timeless_mbpsp3000: who else was confused/17:30
infobotfubar is F*cked Up Beyond Any Recognition, e.g. "This whole operation is fubar, soldier" (gay lisp included), or a bar addon like Titan Panel and Telo's InfoBar. and everything.17:31
LuciusMareoh, i always thought it is like foo bar...17:32
Damion2I have no problems with / being 256M, it's plenty for a base OS as long as you have larger installed apps else where17:32
Damion2personally I'd have gone for /usr/local17:32
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Damion2which is default if people compile with a plain ./configure17:32
ShapeshifterDamion2: it is a step back?17:33
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Damion2Shapeshifter: the e90 with the last revisions of s2putty were a very comfy experience sshing to remote hosts17:33
Damion2n97 with my patches was also very very nice17:33
Damion2the n900 terminal and ssh need some work to catch up17:33
ifreqxterm and openssh?17:34
Damion2I can't get the screen tty size the way I like it, missing keys are a pain, etc...17:34
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ShapeshifterDamion2: mhh. how can ssh need work? It feels pretty standard17:34
Damion2I don't want 4lines of font taken up with huge rarely used buttons17:34
Damion2Shapeshifter: UI and RSI avoidance17:34
ShapeshifterI use tab all the time. I think I need to map it to some hardware button17:34
ifreqDamion2: and you can resize xterm with volume buttons.. or via menu17:34
Damion2lack of sticky Ctrl was a pain until i found away to make Ctrl sticky17:34
ShapeshifterDamion2: yeah I believe the UI is far from perfect17:35
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ShadowJKuse the zoon buttons to change font size17:35
Damion2ifreq: yeah but latest ubuntu screen sometimes crashes on SIGWINCH and I've spent weeks leaving a debug compile running to see if I could track it down to no end17:35
Damion2I want fricking 80x2417:35
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Damion2not 79x2217:35
ShadowJKfreak :)17:35
Shapeshifterubuntu :|17:36
zashDamion2: what, 80×25 or gtfo17:36
ifreqits not easy for you i see :-)17:36
Damion2my xterm at work and home are that size and everything has to rejig on the phone17:36
Damion2let me look that up17:36
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* ShadowJK has 133 x 2317:36
hrwhow to force tracker to reindex photos?17:36
Damion2zash: 80x25 is what DOS stuff used to use17:36
Damion2I domn't use hardstatus in screen(1)17:36
ShadowJKsorry, 133 x 2717:36
ShadowJKwidescreen screen :/17:36
X-Fadehrw: Does touching them work?17:37
hrwI use 154x68 terminal in this moment17:37
hrwX-Fade: good idea17:37
zash~$ echo $COLUMNS×$LINES17:37
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Damion2Shapeshifter: it's the corp standard, I'm a slackware man myself17:37
ShadowJKhrw: on n90017:37
hrwShadowJK: yes17:37
tybolltDamion2: how'd you make ctrl sticky? I tried lemon curd, didnät work :(17:37
ShapeshifterDamion2: I see.17:37
Damion2tybollt: xkbset st17:37
DocScrutinizerDamion2: still it's insane to have /usr, /var on a 256MB /17:37
Damion2DocScrutinizer: they're not stopping people export17:37
Damion2and /usr is /okay/ if a little filling17:38
tybolltI-N-S-A-N-E in the membrane17:38
hrwI did some photos during fosdem trip and gallery does not show them17:38
Damion2var can be kept small if you keep tabs on it, but okay yeah17:38
ShadowJKhow, I only get 133x31 in fullscreen and it says "already at minimum fontsize" :/17:38
dnaumovsubmitted my problem:
povbotBug 8926: rootfs stuck in readonly mode17:38
X-Fadehrw: Are they inside MyDocs?17:38
hrwShadowJK: ah, sorry - I thought about tracker. no I have such size on desktop. on n900 I do not care too much about terminal size17:38
Damion2Shapeshifter: basically I _just_ got n97 s2putty the way I like it, I've had 80x24 font on 9000, 9110. 9210*, 9500, 9300, e90, n97 and now aim to get it working on n90017:39
hrwX-Fade: yes, were done with internal camera17:39
tybolltdnaumov: you can't just remount it w/ read flag?17:39
Damion2*9210 didn't have ssh at first and lame versions came about with 80x11 and 80x22 until s2putty17:39
ShadowJK80x24 is going to have a very wide font :)17:40
DocScrutinizerDamion2: you know *why* /usr was invented back in the ancient *nix days? Exactly ho give it an own partition/drive17:40
Damion2osso-xterm nabs the left line for some reason, I need to compile a version that doesn't17:40
Damion2DocScrutinizer: I know it was shared via nfs in many places17:40
DocScrutinizerDamion2: never wondered why there's /bin and /usr/bin?17:40
tybolltbin - static17:40
Damion2 /bin is guarenteed to be part of / but /usr isn't17:40
tybollt /usr/bin/ - ld.so17:40
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* tybollt tillber anders_gud 17:41
ifreqdnaumov: someone else had probs with ubifs too
anders_gudtackar ;-)17:42
DocScrutinizersame thing with /var, which is considered a mass dump device for spooler jobs etc pp17:42
tybolltDocScrutinizer: I read somet doco over at mo saying the 256mb for everything and then opt for the rest was a -temporary- solution and not for the long run...17:43
tybolltvery temporary :S17:43
DocScrutinizertybollt: I honestly doubt they ever manage to do the clean cut and move to a sane partitioning. You know there's nothing as durable as a botch17:44
Damion2I know some of the archaic history, however having lasted years on a 120MB disk which mostly has all in / I think even by todays standards 256M is okay, it's actually a bit less and yet most people have 50MB of so free if they've not install insane stuff17:44
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: :-D17:45
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Damion2somebody sshed in do a du -sk /* ?17:45
DocScrutinizerDamion2: actually that's not the point17:45
tybolltit is NOT the point indeed17:46
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ShadowJKiirc someone said on Maemo6 the OS will sit on the same big device as the swap and the user's files... joy :(17:47
DocScrutinizeryeah, or maybe maemo717:47
* tybollt is entirely backseat-arguing today, but then, DocScrutinizer is clearly on a roll here ;)17:47
ShadowJK./configure --prefix=/opt/maemo ;D17:48
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tybolltShadowJK: I can see that being the thing they will put forth as the key to why the dev is not backwards compatible >:D17:48
Damion2if they'd made the 32GB more flexible, ie umountable mounts while booted and resizeable filesystems, then it would have been handy.17:48
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Maromaderdamion2 lvm? :)17:49
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Damion2having /home after /home/user/MyDocs/ physically is a pain as you can't shrink the fat andedit the partition table easily17:49
tybolltmany of us would need to shrink the fat :(17:50
Damion2it's currently non trivial to have /var and /usr external, even for hackers17:50
tybolltmy missus keep telling me every day you know :(17:50
Damion2you have to do it in scripts on boot17:50
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DocScrutinizerDamion2: caused by maemo devels' madness17:51
Damion2if it started with, say 5-10GB of ext2 and then part2,3 were unused and part4 was fat we could resize2fs and use part3,4 labelwise and sort stuff by hand17:52
Maromaderyou can just repartition emmc,, make static fstab and all works17:52
DocScrutinizertybollt: pass it over, mate. BMI 17 here17:52
* ShadowJK 'd actually want a bigger nand, or that LogFS or nilfs2 were usable, instead of a bigger ext* partition...17:52
tybolltDocScrutinizer: ;)17:52
Maromaderbtw, what is less io intensive, ext2 or ext3?17:53
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greenflydoes anyone have a recommendation on how to either provide a prompt at boot to mount an encrypted volume, or a way to get a truecrypt session to persist after a restart of X?17:53
Maromaderi have ext3 right now and when i install bigger packages, system changs sometimes17:54
ShadowJK"Device memory - Total is only 27GB!?" <- ah what threads the existing ext3 partition causes...17:54
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Maromaderi will chwck ext2 next17:54
greenflyMaromader: I doubt that's caused by ext317:55
ShadowJKext2 isn't going to be any better17:55
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DocScrutinizerMaromader: check swap usage17:56
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kevloralhi all17:56
Maromaderhow about journal, isnt that just writing twice?17:56
ShadowJKext4 slightly better maybe, by an immeasurably small margin... btrfs slightly better, but it's not stable, nilfs2 pretty good but not stable, LogFS even better but not even in mainline kernel yet...17:56
DocScrutinizerswapping takes ages17:56
greenflyMaromader: it's likely something like trackerd or something indexing the new files you've installed17:56
ShadowJKI've been wanting to try make an ext3 filesystem with massively large journal, and the filesystem set to journal data too, not just metadata...17:57
Maromaderi see...17:57
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Maromaderso, better to stick to ext3?17:57
dnaumovok wtf, now I am seeing "mount" show "rootfs on /" and "ubi0:rootfs on /" both shown as RW17:57
dnaumovyet, writing still doesnt work, still complains its readonly17:58
ShadowJKMaromader, yes it survives unexpected reboots better17:58
ShadowJKdnaumov, how much free space?17:58
dnaumovShadowJK: over 50mb17:58
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ShadowJKhm :/17:59
dnaumovcant browse installed packaged, because apt cant write to /17:59
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jophishOut of interest. Has Nokia provided any insights into why they partitioned the n900 the way they did?17:59
Damion2dnaumov: you definitely can't remount rw?17:59
Maromadergoing out, see you18:00
dnaumovDamion2: mount says it IS rw18:00
Damion2cos you /may/ be able to work out which files/dirs to remove to make it work?18:00
X-Fadejophish: root is a different chip.18:00
greenflythis should be in a faq, the n900 partitioning question gets asked in here and in t.m.o every day18:00
pupnikjophish: see mailing list18:00
Maromaderjophish smaller flash is quicker18:00
ShadowJKjophish, well the hardware is 256M/32G. 2G was chosen because based on some average song size, so that the tracker database would fit if user has 32 (27) gigs of songs on internal memory and 16 gigs on external memory card...18:00
ShadowJKSupposedly the 256M chip was chosen in order to not make the developers too lazy so that they would not add too much bloat.18:01
Damion2maybe risk taking noexec from MyDocs ?18:01
ShadowJKOr so someone said18:01
X-FadeShadowJK: Blah ;)18:01
X-FadeShadowJK: It is just a 256 PoP.18:01
Damion2are people seriously filling their 2GB ?18:01
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jophishthanks for the answers18:02
X-FadeShadowJK: Ram and flash are in once package.18:02
ShadowJKX-Fade, Yeah I know :)18:02
* jophish still thinks it's crazy though18:02
Damion2I've neither tried reflashing nor repartitioning my device yet and I'm happy so far with the hackability18:02
pupnikthe 256m also forces us to change packages, ensuring a split between maemo and debian18:02
ShadowJKX-Fade, I suspect there isn't much choice really18:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: the 256MB is a SoC standard package18:02
Damion2obviously thuings like my q3a .PAK files are on MyDocs18:02
GAN900When the N900 was being built, that was the biggest size available in quantity.18:02
Damion2ooh, I should upload my video of tower toppler (Nebulous) working on x86 against arm18:03
Damion2it looks almost 90% of the speed!18:03
Maromaderthats qhy i prefer repartitioning over optification - debian compatibility18:03
ShadowJKFlash really shows its ugly side, the performance difference is so noticeable when an app is located on emmc and is also writing to emmc (gpodder)18:03
pupnikDamion2: ukki already maintains tower topppler18:03
Damion2pupnik: yeah, I found that out when I was about to try and compile it18:03
Damion2pupnik: how annoying :)18:03
Damion2anyway I can run the native x86 version and it looks about 90% of the speed18:04
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you'd think the writes should go to cache anyway18:05
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yeah but whenever they go to disk they block reads for awhile18:05
pupnikDamion2: want unmaintained games?18:05
Damion2is whatever laptop mode is called, enabled ?  that can do things like not bother flushing for minutes so writes can seem very fast18:06
tybolltmmmh blocking I/O18:06
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: so everything except apps that read/write large amounts of data, should not suffer too much from lower flash speed18:06
Damion2pupnik: I hope to get wine running ut it segv's18:06
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tybollton the n900?18:06
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Think about libs.18:06
tybolltSir are you ... ?18:06
pupnikkobo deluxe, pingus, technoballz need a maintainer18:06
cehtehhuh? :)18:06
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cehtehhehe wine for wince? :) .. thats arm at least18:07
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and those apps had no other location to store their large amounts of data18:07
Damion2tybollt: yeah.  I think it's a threading/mutex issue18:07
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, dunno, I was seeing a pretty constant 20-50k of reads from the emmc, probably executable pages getting dropped/paged in as I was using the browser18:07
Damion2I can run loads of other stuff, like toppler and xrandr and chroot18:07
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: that's load aka startup lag18:07
Damion2stuff that forks doesn't work18:07
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Yes, but quite significant ;)18:08
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DocScrutinizerk, I can live with an app taking even twice as long to startup18:08
ShadowJKSo are libs/etc read-ahead when you launch an app? I thought it was all on-demand pagein18:08
Damion2I think I need to chroot in to my nfs export of my x86 laptop and run (arm) /var/tmp/ --library-path=/var/tmp/ /var/tmp/qemu-i386-2 /bin/dash18:09
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: See Maps as an example ;)18:09
DocScrutinizerall apps nokia thinks shoiuld pop up snappy are preloaded anyway18:09
Damion2then when I run stuff /lib/ is in the right place and isthe right arch (x86) so it should work slightly better18:09
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: maps could handle precaching of the next tile needed in a much smarte way18:10
ShadowJKthe write speed of the emmc is something like 200k/sec for random write :/18:10
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Damion2ovi maps shouldn't be so awfully sluggish looking when I drag it a centermetre with the stylus.  It looks pretty awful18:10
ShadowJKhm, let me start it and try18:11
ShadowJKkinda looks like google maps in firefox on Quad core CPU, except a bit faster ;-)18:11
cehtehhowe much swap do you people have in use commonly?18:12
timeless_mbpDamion2: it'll be slightly better in the next version18:12
ShadowJKcehteh, 100 - 150 megs18:12
DocScrutinizercehteh: few18:12
SpeedEvilcehteh: varies depending on stuff18:12
timeless_mbpDamion2: but ovi maps has an incredibly convoluted design18:12
timeless_mbpwhere they basically intentionally defeat all the rendering advantages of a working web browser18:12
anders_gudNew MyPaint version out with some Fremantle UI love
SpeedEvil /dev/mmcblk0p3                          partition78642495460-118:12
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timeless_mbpat least, that's why one of the guys from services told me about how it worked18:13
cehtehi tweaked some things 100mb here with 4h uptime, webradio, nothing else18:13
timeless_mbp(not from maps, just a guy in services)18:13
SpeedEvilcehteh: swap use doesn't mean the pageisn't also in RA<18:13
timeless_mbpanders_gud: um18:13
cehtehi know18:13
timeless_mbphold on a sec?18:13
pupniklots of people with n900s at FOSDEM18:14
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: huh?18:14
zaheermyep lots of n900s at fosdem18:14
cehtehSpeedEvil: i rather like if it swaps aggressively18:14
timeless_mbpanders_gud: 1. don't use ellipsis in menus18:14
zaheermoutnumbered all other phone models from my observation18:14
ShadowJKAbout 60M out of 140M swap is copied in ram for me18:14
pupnikyou were there zaheerm?  sorry i missed you.  what presentations were best for you?18:14
DocScrutinizercehteh: swapping takes ages18:14
ShadowJK11 day uptime18:14
SpeedEvilzaheerm: probably a nonrepresentative sample :)18:15
zaheermpupnik, evil was the best one18:15
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I had 30 days but then wifi died18:15
pupnikevil on the internet?  misssed it18:15
cehtehDocScrutinizer: yeah 756mb is prolly way to huge 256 should be enouhg18:15
timeless_mbpanders_gud: 2. what does 'Layer' do? do you mean 'Layers'?18:15
zaheermpupnik, i missed michael meeks's one and the facebook one unfortunately, which other people told me were good18:15
cehtehbut here it seems to work fine18:15
SpeedEvil256 may be tight for some workloads18:15
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SpeedEvil512 is probably not insane18:15
anders_gudtimeless  ellipsis ?18:16
DocScrutinizerram * 2 is a good rule of thumb18:16
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adalalis there a syncing program to sync music from rhythmbox to my n900?18:16
cehtehSpeedEvil: just calculate how fast it swaps .. with 5mb/sec (and thats prolly much faster than it actually swaps) anything high would be very slow18:16
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SpeedEvil512 is not insane - with a sane swap-out algorithm that swaps out in linear blocks18:16
pupnikzaheerm: i filmed the tor talk but n900 crashed writing the video18:16
anders_gudpuritan :-)18:16
SpeedEvilthe current one does not as I understand it18:17
timeless_mbpanders_gud: free good advice has to be worth something18:17
zaheermpupnik, :(18:17
cehtehwell anyways having some more space there ensures that there are enough free blocks for wear leveling so i just leave that as is it wont hurt18:17
Texok guys, please tell me if im doing things that right/safe/healthy way.18:17
dnaumovok now this is getting interesting... a few reboots and attempts to remount / as RW later... the phone boots... but both "df" and "mount" show NOTHING18:18
Texim compiling stuff using scratchbox sending the files using scp moving them /opt/myapps and creating ln -s for every file18:18
pupnikbarebox is a very interesting bootloader - based on uboot - maybe a candidate for tablets18:18
SpeedEvilwear leveling reportedly only acts on small areas - ~several meg18:18
Texthats the way things should be done?18:18
anders_gudthanks timless! Try It out...18:18
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SpeedEvil is interesting WRT wear leveling18:18
DocScrutinizerdnaumov: your / fs is fscked up18:18
timeless_mbpanders_gud: hrm, is it in extras or something?18:19
dnaumovDocScrutinizer: "oh really" ;:18:19
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anders_gudnah not yet18:19
TexDocScrutinizer : is this the correct way to do things ?18:19
Texand btw axel runs perfectly, all we need now is some sexy gui for it ;)18:19
ShadowJKI don't think I've ever seen the emmc manage more than 1megabyte/s in "real life" swapping... In certain circumstances it can do it, like if you just rebooted and start microb+flash...18:19
DocScrutinizerTex: aiui yes18:20
* timeless_mbp sighs18:20
cehtehSpeedEvil: i've set commit-interval for the fs and laptop_mode to 3600 .. holding back writes18:20
ShadowJKbut after that it's rare to see it manage over .5 meg/sec... flash is too slow :)18:20
ShadowJKor rather the way mmc/sd works..18:20
SpeedEvilShadowJK: it's not18:20
SpeedEvilShadowJK: used right18:20
ShadowJKyes yes, but it's not used right18:20
SpeedEvilShadowJK: it's just it doesn't use it right.18:20
hrwshit. feedburner do not handle my maemo/nokia feed ;(18:21
ShadowJKUnfortunately all the people that could code kernel are rich enough to buy RAM or get free Intel SSDs18:21
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medocan anyone tell me how to use the fmms from the garage?18:22
medowhat file to download?18:22
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: LOL18:22
ShadowJK(or can't afford N900)18:22
medoanyhelp here?18:23
Texat least they still have their freedoms :P18:23
ShadowJKI'd check out the fmms thread on talk.maemo.org18:23
ShadowJKI believe it has instructions18:23
Texmedo : not really :D18:23
medook,   about any deb file if have many versions, do i have to download all?18:24
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ShadowJKI'd be inclined to say, that if you ask such a question, you're better off not downloading deb files. It's better to use application manager18:26
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Damion2timeless_mbp: any chance of kinetic scrolling?18:29
timeless_mbpwhat page are you visiting where you want it?18:29
timeless_mbpand what do you expect it to do?18:29
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* ShadowJK noticed pages with frames are a bit funny sometimes18:32
adalalanyone knows how to sync/transfer music using a music program to the n900?18:32
ShadowJKwebshops with shopping basket status are at bottom for example verkkokauppa.com18:32
Damion2timeless_mbp: if I want to view far to the right I swipe and it slowly jerkingly moves right a bit, I then have to let go and do it again18:33
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Damion2in googlemaps (s60) it moves as my finger moves which is nicer, on the iphone it smoothly scrolls with slow decelleration18:33
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timeless_mbpDamion2: how are you swiping?18:34
timeless_mbpimagine the n900 is a football field18:34
timeless_mbpthe non touch regions are the end zones18:34
timeless_mbpthe center is the 50yd line18:34
Damion2I'm english, is this american football?18:34
timeless_mbpyou're going to need to look it up anyway18:34
adalalu mean american football?18:34
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timeless_mbpthe saints just won the superbowl18:35
Damion2the what?18:35
Damion2you win a super bowl ?18:35
timeless_mbpsurely that would have made news even on your tiny island18:35
jon1012I have a strange problem... my n900 says it is fully charged, but when I look at the percentage I only have 7Y4%18:35
jon1012someone knows how I can get back to 100 %18:35
zaheermwe just are happy JT has finally been shown the door ;)18:35
timeless_mbpdo you swipe from your 10yd line to your opponent's 10yd line?18:35
Damion2timeless_mbp: I put my fingernail on the screen and move it to the side and let go and go back to the middle for the next movement18:35
ShadowJKI think I went half my life thinking superbowl was a bowling competition :)18:35
ShadowJKjon1012: what's voltage?18:36
zaheermmy local bowling alley was called superbowl18:36
Damion2timeless_mbp: typically more from a centre18:36
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Damion2no wait, I must use the edge to the other edge18:36
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* DocScrutinizer deja vu18:36 says a yard is a little less than a metre18:36
timeless_mbpDamion2: see....18:36
jon1012ShadowJK: voltage.current => 414118:36
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* dazo just swipes the finger 2-4cm on the screen, from either right to left ... or left to right ..... don't understand the football talk ....18:36
timeless_mbpif you use 50yd to 10yd, which you initially claimed, then you can easily repeat the stroke w/o pain18:37
ShadowJKjon1012: ok it's full18:37
* timeless_mbp just tested18:37
ShadowJKjon1012, short story: the meter lies18:37
timeless_mbpif you swipe from 10yd to 10yd, then yeah, you're going to be unhappy18:37
Damion2let me test18:37
jon1012ShadowJK: the nokia level shows full, but the percentage says 74%18:37
DocScrutinizerjon1012: so you *are* at 100%. Just the stupid guestimate gets it wrong18:37
timeless_mbpdazo: ever given people instructions based on a clock18:37
Damion2oksy started to load it.18:37
timeless_mbp"boggie 4 oclock"18:38
jon1012ShadowJK: strange18:38
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Damion2right it's almost started...18:38
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Damion2it's not as bad as I remember, in the cold trying to get satelite lock yesterday18:39
jon1012that's strange18:39
Damion2but it's still not the same as googlemaps s6018:39
jebba900hmm. The foto viewer says No Images.  Howto get it to open folder?18:39
ShadowJKjon1012: the charger and meter don't really talk to eachother18:39
dazotimeless_mbp:  very very very seldom ... as most of the times people get confused .... and look at their watch instead, realising their watch is on the mobile phone instead :-P18:39
DocScrutinizerjon1012: see above comments18:39
DocScrutinizerjon1012: if in doubt, just replug the charger. 60min later bat *is* fully charged18:40
ShadowJK4.1V is pretty full considering screen and all is on when that value is obtained18:41
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DocScrutinizer4V14 is pretty full for  a LiIon18:42
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Damion2timeless_mbp: this will sound like "Dr Dr my arm hurts when I hold it like <this>" sort of comment, but if I move my finger from the centre, to left, then to right and left taking about 1second, so not that fast, there is a visible sluggishness.  Not to mention it doesn't redraw roadnames and stuff18:42
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timeless_mbpDamion2: is this ovi maps?18:43
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* Trizt can't understand why WPA-PSK connections should suddenly stop working after been working for weeks flawlessly 18:43
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timeless_mbpif so "yeah, i know, so does everyone else"18:43
Damion2tbh, once I get the next keyboarded maemo6 device in N years, ovi will have navigation and I'll probably not touch it as it just directs me where I need.18:43
Damion2This is just an initial look+feel issue for people I show the device to18:43
Damion2timeless_mbp: yes ovi maps on the n90018:43
timeless_mbpDamion2: don't show people ovi maps!18:43
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Damion2timeless_mbp: I don't recall it being any good on the s60 either18:43
DocScrutinizer~tell jon1012 about batteryfaq18:43
Damion2timeless_mbp: heh18:43
timeless_mbpshow them Bounce18:44
timeless_mbpshow them Angry Birds18:44
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Damion2timeless_mbp: well after staring at the loading bar for a minute they normally walk off anyway18:44
timeless_mbpshow them Google Maps18:44
timeless_mbpshow them Maep18:44
Damion2there is no googlemaps yet18:44
DocScrutinizerjon1012: that might help a little as well18:44
timeless_mbpDamion2: google maps works nicely in the browser18:44
Damion2maep isn't brillian18:44
timeless_mbpjust install the geolocation addon18:44
timeless_mbp(and then you can use it w/ facebook and friends too...{)18:44
dnaumovreflashing the N900 doesnt wipe the user data on the 32gb disk right?18:44
Damion2fsvo nicely.  Okay it's impressive enough to demo that it works, including gears style gps, and hover mouse interaction, but it's not great18:44
timeless_mbpdnaumov: depends on _what_ you reflash18:45
Damion2google docs is impressive too, but not exactly that useable18:45
timeless_mbpdnaumov: if you reflash the root partition, your user data is safe18:45
hrwtimeless_mbp: and this is the only thing which you can *reflash*18:45
timeless_mbpbut if you reflash your eMMC then you'll certainly lose all of your eMMC's data (which is where your user data lives)18:45
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timeless_mbphrw: well given that one uses 'flasher' to reflash both pieces18:46
timeless_mbpthey're all flash memory underneath18:46
timeless_mbpit's just a matter of one having write/wear-leveling and being considerably bigger+slower than the other18:46
hrwtimeless_mbp: sure, but eMMC is not exposed as flash but as block device18:46
* timeless_mbp shrugs18:46
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timeless_mbpto this confused user, he has to understand that he needs to reflash the right thing18:47
timeless_mbpbecause otherwise he could reflash the wrong thing and be very unhappy18:47
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jon1012soeey got disconnected by my 3g provider18:48
DocScrutinizerhrw: to usb eMMC *is* exposed as a flash18:50
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Triztanyone know if there are plans to allow to use more than one skype account at the same time?18:52
Damion2what happens if you enable two at the same time now ?18:52
TriztDamion2; the first one is diconnected18:52
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DocScrutinizer~nuke skype18:52
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at skype ... B☢☢M!18:52
VDVsxnooooo, skype is cool :)18:53
VDVsxand useful :)18:53
Damion2Trizt: it might be an issue of limited details passed around (dbus?) to notify the im/voip client of things like incoming calls18:53
dazoskype is crap18:53
cehtehnot cool but useful18:53
tybolltmisserable piece of shit18:54
VDVsx~nuke skype haters18:54
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at skype haters ... B☢☢M!18:54
* VDVsx hides18:54
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tybolltbut sicne no free alternative -> what you use :)18:54
Damion2skype is evil, in typically sandal wearing treehugging debian using fashion.  But it's actually very usable and nice :-p18:54
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Damion2google talk is okay and allows video on the n90018:54
tybolltat some point you have to be pragmatic18:54
dazoproprietary crap, which don't dare to play with open cards ..... SIP is cool .... the idea behind skype is cool ... the skype closedness and proprietary part is not cool18:54
TriztDamion2; not sure, as I haven't seen the source code, but they do limit one account/client in desktop versions too, so I tend to run skype as different users to get around the problem18:54
cehtehwell one could set up some asterisks everyone for himself and his friends or so (gating into mobile and landline telephoen networks is a bit expensive)18:55
* dazo would like to see ekiga working though18:55
tybolltyou don't get to diss skype while shutting up about the sgx poarts in your device :)18:55
cehtehbut after all some fair share p2p systen accounting dit for dat would be nice18:55
Damion2cehteh: it's far too much hassle, and skype's firewall traversal is reliable and desktop friendly18:55
DocScrutinizercehteh: wrooong18:55
cehtehDamion2: skypes firewall traversal is not black magic18:56
DocScrutinizercehteh: you don't need *18:56
Damion2no but it's already set up and works18:56
DocScrutinizerand gateway is cheaper than skype18:56
cehtehthere is nothing to setup18:56
cehtehDocScrutinizer: huh?18:56
* mgedmin has objections to a single company controlling the world's phone infrastructure18:56
cehtehDocScrutinizer: imagine i want to call some landline in chile?18:56
cehtehfrom my german internet18:57
DocScrutinizercehteh: there's a million SIP providers out there18:57
Damion2cehteh: stun servers and stuff18:57
TriztDocScrutinizer; and does it offer phone numbers abroad for a low cost?18:57
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tybolltmgedmin: but you are fine w/ google controlling ... just about fucking everything?18:57
Damion2tybollt: MS already control most stuff18:57
cehtehyes but well these may be better than skype for technicall reasons but from political view its the same bullshit18:57
tybolltnot traffic ona intarwebz18:57
tybolltor information ona intarwebz18:58
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Damion2tybollt: everyone uses bing18:58
tybolltthere is the  googlers18:58
tybolltDamion2: dern it, I knew I forgot about that :-D18:58
Damion2I stopped using cuil when bing came around18:58
ali12341google doesn't control anything but the internet advertising market, and poersonally i don't care if a bunch of marketing wonks are getting screwed18:58
DocScrutinizerTrizt: go find out18:58
mgedmintybollt, google doesn't control _my_ mail18:58
Damion2yeah, click on the links and all you do is cost some advertiser money18:58
* tybollt using Jeeve's myself ;)18:58
Damion2although google try hard to at least make the links relevant18:59
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Damion2twould be better if people stopped assuming the worst, wearing tin foil hats and balking at stuff like personallised ads.18:59
tybolltmgedmin: chances are fifty fifty (if in US) at some point your mail will traverse googlers infratructure and as you don't pgp your email - they own you =))18:59
Damion2I'm looking forward to only seeing ads for gadgets even if looking at porn18:59
* mgedmin actually pgp-signs his every mail18:59
Damion2mgedmin: what are you hiding?19:00
* mgedmin wonders if Damion2 knows what "signature" means19:00
mgedminnot my identity, obviously19:00
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timeless_mbp168     // : child entity has been finished. store it as a19:00
ShadowJKI'm looking forward to google figuring out I dont live in holland19:00
timeless_mbp169     // a childen to the node this parser is parsing.19:00
tybolltmgedmin: Blimey thar mate-y. What when old grandma mgedmin opens up a mail and ol she gets is hashes? :)19:00
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mgedminI *am* hiding my PGP passphrase, though ;)19:00
timeless_mbpcan someone please help me divine the meaning of 'childen' there?19:00
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Damion2mgedmin: oh, authenticity19:01
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fluxsoo, why is hildon-home at the top of powertop's activity list even though the screen is off?-) (2400 wakeups)19:01
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mgedminflux, some plugin?19:01
Damion2yeah but nobody looking at your email knows whether the random string of hex at the bottom is yours unless they're using a client that will check19:01
mgedminflux, try disabling them one by one?19:01
Shapeshifterumm, is there a way to get alt/meta in the terminal to be able to switch windows n irssi?19:01
Damion2most people see your pgp signature and just ignore it as noise at the bottom19:01
mgedminflux, my n900 doesn't show hildon-desktop when I run powertop19:01
timeless_mbpmgedmin: nah, better to turn them all off first to get a sane baseline19:02
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Damion2Shapeshifter: escape 1 .. 419:02
mgedminShapeshifter, esc followed by a letter/number == alt+letter/number in a terminal19:02
fluxmgedmin, good point, actually now I recall enabling pedometer on the day :)19:02
mgedmintimeless_mbp, flux, actually, why not turn half of them and bisect?19:02
timeless_mbpmgedmin: yeah well19:02
Damion2flux: pedo meter?  don't hold that near gary glitter ;)19:02
Damion2twould go off the scale19:03
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mgedminanswer: because it's too hard to keep the intermediate steps in my mind ;)19:03
Damion2sorry everyone19:03
timeless_mbpbetter to start from off and add half than try bisecting only to discover the baseline sucks19:03
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fluxyeah, that was it :)19:03
ShadowJKtimeless, so they've been "open sourcing" symbian for what, a year or two now, where "open sourcing" means hiding the most embarassing bits... imagine what it was like before :-)19:03
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Damion2Shapeshifter: if like me you've removed the bottom bar as you can do pretty much everything without it, you need Ctrl-A:stuff ^[19:03
fluxit's sort of annyoing that the hildon widgets aren't separate processes, but I suppose this is more efficient19:04
Damion2I use ^C in vim which works as esc19:04
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: the two modules i indexed didn't seem to have any obvious curse words19:04
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GAN900Jaffa, this weeks issue looks good. Thanks for picking up the slack. :)19:04
timeless_mbpflux: s/hildon widgets/hildon home applets/19:04
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timeless_mbphildon widgets are by definition ... widgets, and part of the hildon widget toolkit :)19:04
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Triztis it possible somehow to have the same widget on more than one desktop?19:05
timeless_mbpno :)19:06
timeless_mbpbut it's possible to only have one desktop :)19:06
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Triztyes, but one desktop is too small for all widgets19:06
Damion2can they overlap19:06
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* ShadowJK has one widget19:07
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* DocScrutinizer thinks it should be possible to have similar widgets on even one desktop19:08
* Damion2 pretty much only runs osso-terminal19:08
adalalanyone help me transferring/syncing music...19:08
* DocScrutinizer wonders how that'll help to solve the missing-space issue though19:08
ShadowJKx-terminal, browser and xchat :)19:08
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ShadowJKand media player occasionally19:08
DocScrutinizerif you can't install a widget multiple times, then that's an issue of the widget19:09
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DocScrutinizersee cmdline-execution-widget, which has learnt to install multiple instances recently19:10
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: same here19:12
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Damion2ShadowJK: just type xchat& from osso-terminal ;)19:14
ShadowJKA long time ago, xchat had a terminal tab :)19:15
TriztOh, something I miss with widgets are the possibility to resize them as in KDE419:16
adalalwhat do i do if i get a hash sum failure while reloading the Development Repository19:16
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DocScrutinizer51Konversation still has19:17
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Sho_DocScrutinizer51: Some people like to have their MUD clients in the same window as their IRC client19:17
DocScrutinizeradalal: try again later19:18
* SpeedEvil backstabs Sho_ with the blessed +5 noodle.19:18
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Sho_SpeedEvil: :)19:19
Vanadishai thar19:19
Vanadishow do i install libgles?19:19
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* SpeedEvil is not going anywhere near MUDs. I lost a year or two to them.19:22
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woglindeVanadis in scratchbox?19:24
adalali think i just found a bug... when my phone is connected to my computer in charging-only mode, it doesn't receive the proper wlan dhcp configurations on connection :S19:24
woglindeVanadis ?????19:25
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woglindeVanadis please give me 50 euros I deserve it19:25
DassuDoes n900 email client have any type of attachment size limites /email size limits? I'm trying to send about 6MB email through gmail. (Maximum supported message size by gmail = 25MB )19:25
woglindeVanadis you see please explain your problem in a proper manner19:26
Vanadiswell, i tried to install openArena, but there was an error ("you need libgles")19:26
Damion2okay xroar (dragon32) emulator built19:26
pupnikbrussels is the lair of the beast :)19:26
pupnikgot a website Damion2 ?19:27
satmdmail messages get inflated by base64 encoding, usually about 1/3 of size19:27
satmdif that's helping anyone19:27
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shinkamuigood afternoon19:29
shinkamuiyay! Garage team approved my blender project!19:29
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SpeedEvilI submitted blender for the n900 a while ago19:30
SpeedEviln900 to the blender19:30
Damion2pupnik: pretty much, but syncing to it isn't trivial.  I can upload the binary, but tbh I aught to just put it in extras-devel19:30
Damion2which if I understand, is easy to do?19:30
shinkamuiman, thats messy19:30
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shinkamuiblending an N900 would be as sacrilegious as calling an iPhone a smart device19:31
shinkamuispeaking of which, I picked my 3gs up after not having looked at it for a month19:31
Damion2the last time my parents visited they showed me their £15 PAYG cheapo crap phones19:31
shinkamuithe interface is pretty damn smooth (the scrolling) but after about 5 minutes I remembered why I had abandoned it19:32
Damion2both could browse the web, one was touchscreen and fancy the other a nokia S40 with all the mod cons19:32
Damion2I'm not entirely show what phone today _isn't_ a smart phone19:32
Damion2shinkamui: I got my 3yo a 2nd hand iphone for xmas, it's good for 3yo19:33
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SpeedEvil ?19:35
Damion2nokia 6500 is actually excellent19:36
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Damion2I think that's the one19:36
Damion2my dads wasn't £15quid19:36
Damion2he has the 650019:36
Damion2my mum's was19:36
* ruskie goes back to figuring out a decent unbreaking procedure...19:36
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woglindehms touchbook is worser as n90019:37
Damion2wow the 1208 has loads of technical specs19:37
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adalalanyone knows how to get the upnp working on MediaBox?19:38
dnaumovthe flasher does work on 64bit operating systems, right?19:39
* hrw -> off19:39
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Damion2dnaumov: as everyone is quiet I'll answer that I don't know, but I have seen loads of people ask that, you might need to run it 32bit, presumably your kernel has support?19:42
Damion2it might be a bit of an issue19:43
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ruskieI couldn't get it to work on 64 myself19:45
ruskiebut I have no 32bit userspace19:45
ruskieonly the 32bit support in the kernel19:45
Damion2you probably only need a tiny bit of 32bit userspace19:46
Damion2and could spawn it19:46
dnaumovwell I have a Win7 desktop19:46
Damion2shh don't say that here!19:46
Damion2surely that can run 32bit stuff?19:46
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dnaumovwell thats what I'd figured, 98% of my software is 32bit19:47
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dnaumovits just that 64bit versions of windows seems to normally run 32bit software, but 32bit Windows doesnt run 64bit apps19:47
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dnaumovso I was just curious if the fact that the flasher is branded as 32bit makes any difference19:47
Damion2I learnt vmware can run 64bit stuff on a 32bit host if your cpu supports it19:48
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Damion2I don't know about windows19:48
Damion2not recently, I can't help sorry19:48
Damion2I used win3.11, win98 and stopped about there19:49
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Damion2and those were just infrequent chance uses19:49
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timeless_mbpzerojay: part 2 :)19:57
timeless_mbpit's slightly longer :)19:57
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fragmenttimeless_mbp: where is that collected from and how?20:01
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otep#/j linux-ph20:02
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jophishdnaumov, I have been using the flasher on a 64bit debian installation with no problems20:05
timeless_mbpfragment: symbian code repos20:06
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timeless_mbpdo a search in the directory for a word and it'll show you20:06
timeless_mbpusing aspell and manual pruning20:06
timeless_mbp(i had time to kill flying home from paris)20:06
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timeless_mbpfragment: there are something like 150..450 hg repos from symbian.org20:08
timeless_mbpand i picked the first two for kicks20:08
timeless_mbpnext step is writing an algorithm to 'fix' the strings20:08
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Inhetepis it common that evince produces some kind of graphical 'lag' effect with kinetic scrolling?20:08
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jebbajebba@mas:/var/www/$ mkdir /var/www/timeless20:10
jebbajebba@mas:/var/www/$ sudo chown timeless:timeless /var/www/timeless20:10
fragmenttimeless_mbp: so many different ways to write capabilities <320:11
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timeless_mbpfragment: impressive isn't it?20:12
timeless_mbpjebba: thanks20:12
fragmenttimeless_mbp: yes.20:12
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: hehe, on your mission to save the world from fingrish?20:12
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: we'll see20:12
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timeless_mbpin case people are curious 'finnish' is in the list because in one case they meant 'finish' not Finnish20:12
timeless_mbp(yes, i had to check)20:12
timeless_mbpok, off to dinner20:12
aSIMULAtorbon apetit20:13
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* RST38h sacrifices a kitten20:14
* SpeedEvil scarifies a kitten.20:15
* sp3000 knits a sacrifice20:16
DocScrutinizerRST38h: SpeedEvil: got Rottweilers?20:16
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N900eviljust dead koi.20:16
DocScrutinizerwon't scare a kitten ;-P20:17
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N900evilwill if it ate them20:18
DocScrutinizerman bites dog?20:18
N900evilice covering pond. pond airpump broke. fvish died. not got them out yet20:19
DocScrutinizerkitten will love them anyway20:19
RST38hDocS: Got the Tentacled One's altar.20:20
RST38hhehe, SOurceForge gave in20:21
RST38hmade exports control user-selectable20:21
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adalalcan someone point out where images are stored on the n900?20:27
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adalallike the default backgrounds, and also the sample music tracks20:27
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JaffaX-Fade: pong20:28
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jophishadalal, in /home/user/MyDocs/.images20:29
jophishand /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds20:29
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jophishno problem20:32
simoneb_is there some way to make album art not show up in the picture browser?20:34
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adalaljophish: are there any syncing methods for music? or is it through usb file-by-file transfer only?20:37
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jophishYou could easily do it through usb transfer.20:39
jophishmust be loads of syncing programs just for that20:39
mtnbkrrsync comes to mind.20:40
mtnbkrnot gui but effieicnt. :)20:40
simoneb_also amarok or banshee should do it20:40
jophishmtnbkr,  the best kind20:40
mtnbkrjophish: yep.20:40
jophishat the moment I'm porting mpc to Maemo.20:41
simoneb_it's me or maesheep is not available for download?20:41
simoneb_i've read about it on the front page and i got curious20:42
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trumeeguys, i have installed qt in scratchbox. If i run designer i get a segmentation fault. anybody knows what is going on.
trumeeis this not the way an application needs to be run in maemo5?20:46
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mikhastrumee, you need to your_app20:51
trumeemikhas: ah! thanks20:52 setups the env vars20:52
trumeemikhas: i am still getting a core dump20:52
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mikhasthe same?20:52
trumeemikhas: yes exactly the same20:53
mikhaswell, you are probably not supposed to run designer inside of sbox anyway20:53
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mikhasoh, let's move to qt-maemo20:54
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shinkamuipupnik, you using Madde or the Scratchbox20:56
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Shapeshifteruhm. I must be blind, but I can't see how to change the sim pin.21:03
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Shapeshifteron the n900.21:03
ShapeshifterShadowJK: well it's not settings->general->device lock21:04
ShadowJKsettings -> phone21:04
Shapeshifterahh there at the bottom. thanks :)21:04
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shinkamuidoes anyone here use Madde yet for development?21:06
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ShadowJKSo now when there were beagleboards at fosdem playing 1080p onto a 3840x2160 or something big videowall, how long until t.m.o is full again of "1080p should be peanuts!"-threads? :P21:13
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threshit was 1024x3 + 768*2 :)21:14
threshand it played 1080p with 2.35 ar among all three, so it was more like SD on each BB21:14
threshpretty cool though indeed, ffmpeg guys rule21:15
ShadowJKyes but the tmo crowd doesn't care about stuff like facts21:15
ShapeshifterI'm trying to do ctrl-r in x-terminal (search back), but it just writes a blankspace.21:15
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ShadowJKThey'd surely think that if a beowulf cluster of beagleboards can play something at 3*1024 x 2*768, then a single beagleboard should be able to play 1400p@60fps h264-lossless ;-)21:17
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ShadowJKor a single n90021:17
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RST38hShadowJK: It depends on how many Oct2009ers visit FOSDEM21:21
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* ioeee saluda o/21:23
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_Jozeph_Anyone knows some AR application available for N900?21:25
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_Jozeph_Hi Realcomix21:26
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Xisdibik_Jozeph_: AR application?21:27
_Jozeph_I think there is no one here...21:27
_Jozeph_Xisdibik, yes man. Augmented Reality Application.21:27
Realcomixi just got here21:27
_Jozeph_Like acrossair for iPhone.21:27
Xisdibik_Jozeph_: I havnt actively look for one in the repos, so dunno21:27
_Jozeph_try acrossair on youtube.21:28
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_Jozeph_no problem.21:28
Xisdibik_Jozeph_: i know what augmented reality is.. i just didnt link AR > AUgmented Reality ;P21:28
_Jozeph_Everything is recent...21:28
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_Jozeph_ahh, sorry man21:28
_Jozeph_Many people does't.21:28
_Jozeph_So sorry!!!21:28
Xisdibikits fine :p21:29
_Jozeph_Xisdibik, do you develop?21:29
_Jozeph_Do you know some ide/environment for maemo developers on desktop?21:29
_Jozeph_I'm downloading that maemovm...21:29
Xisdibik_Jozeph_: nope I just use ;)21:30
_Jozeph_I will try to help the RS project.21:30
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_Jozeph_improving more features, basically features available on 'Remote Tracker' for Windows Mobile.21:31
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_Jozeph_Alguém fala Português aqui?21:32
_Jozeph_Algum brasileiro? ;-D21:32
_Jozeph_I don't think so...21:32
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_Jozeph_infobot, hello! Long time that I use IRC...21:33
_Jozeph_infobot, I just don't belive that you still alive! ;-D21:33
infobotYou just don't belive that you still alive! ;-D?21:33
_Jozeph_infobot, do you know augmented reality?21:34
infobotyes, I know augmented reality.21:34
Xisdibikwere you asking if i was brazilian _Jozeph_ ?21:34
Stskeeps_Jozeph_: awkward question, did you use to frequent either unrealircd or l4ka? :P21:34
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_Jozeph_Xisdibik, sorry. I'm just ask if someone present is brazilian.21:35
_Jozeph_Stskeeps, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S ME!21:35
Xisdibikah ok21:35
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Stskeeps_Jozeph_: scary :P21:35
_Jozeph_Stskeeps,  Long, long, long, long time!!!!21:35
Xisdibikill leave you two to... reunite ;)21:35
_Jozeph_I'm still alive!21:35
Stskeepsme too, much to my own surprise21:35
_Jozeph_Xisdibik, Stskeeps is a very very very old friend.21:36
Xisdibiki dont doubt it ;)21:36
_Jozeph_Stskeeps, are you still developing unrealircd?21:36
Stskeeps_Jozeph_: nop, moved on and now my job is distmaster21:37
Stskeepswhich is a lot better for my sanity21:37
_Jozeph_Unfortunately after finish university my priorities has changed...21:37
_Jozeph_Oh man!21:37
_Jozeph_I'm very happy for you!21:37
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_Jozeph_Nokia passed so for away from here with N900... But... Globalization helps to obtain some facilities, like N900.21:39
_Jozeph_I've purchased one US version a few days ago.21:39
_Jozeph_and I just don't belive all the possibilities that this device can provide.21:40
MiXu-It's awesome :)21:40
_Jozeph_Stskeeps,  are you one of that famous guys on youtube presenting maemo?21:40
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Stskeeps_Jozeph_: dunno, maybe :)21:44
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_Jozeph_Are you still committing your code files with stskeeps, or it's just an irc nickname? ;D21:46
acidjazzwhat are these urls21:47
acidjazztoo old21:47
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_Jozeph_acidjazz, I know that... You need to read history to understand... :D21:47
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Shapeshifterso, I see there's claws mail for OS2008, but I can't find one for maemo5. Can anyone recommend a different mail client to the one builtin? Also, I added extra but midori is not in it. I'm kinda confused as I thought it was pretty far in progress. Isn't it in there?21:48
XisdibikShapeshifter: let me check which one they are in21:49
* SpeedEvil just uses google.21:49
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Stskeeps_Jozeph_: carsten munk / stskeeps21:50
* Xisdibik uses MfE 21:50
XisdibikShapeshifter: claws-mail = extras-devel21:51
ShapeshifterXisdibik: ahh, thanks21:51
_Jozeph_Stskeeps, I'm very happy to see you after so long time.21:51
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Xisdibikand midori is extras-devel as well21:51
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ShapeshifterXisdibik: in MfE real imap is impossible right? also, ymmv, right?21:52
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Shapeshifterat least for google I mean21:52
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Xisdibikgmail is a hoe for MfE, so i went ahead and paid the $25 for 1 year of NeuvaSync (mighta spelled that wrong)21:52
Xisdibikwhich works with gmail flawlessly21:52
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Xisdibikfor everything except task21:52
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Xisdibikalthough multiple calenders are not supported as the n900 software doesnt support it yet21:53
Xisdibikits already supported neuvasync wise21:53
Xisdibiktheres a 5 day free trial if u wanna test it out21:53
Xisdibikand its free for calender/contact syncing, only the mail is $25 a year21:54
Shapeshifternah, I'm not even sure I like the n900's mail app21:54
Shapeshifterclaws is fine if it looks good, I'm messing with the repo atm ;)21:54
Xisdibiksofar with Neuvasync its been epic win21:54
_Jozeph_Xisdibik, have you tried 'Conduit' ?21:55
_Jozeph_Xisdibik, are you use Windows or Linux on PC?21:55
XisdibikBoth ;)21:55
_Jozeph_Xisdibik, try conduit.21:55
Xisdibikwhats conduit?21:55
_Jozeph_Xisdibik, a very nice sync software.21:56
_Jozeph_Stskeeps, now I'm following you on tw.21:57
Xisdibikit syncs with a PC though21:57
XisdibikNeuvaSync is an exchange server21:57
Stskeeps_Jozeph_: yeah, it's not very interesting ;)21:57
_Jozeph_Xisdibik, sync with many things...21:57
Xisdibikdoes it have an exchange server, so i can sync my phone with my gmail account?21:57
Xisdibikusing MfE21:57
Xisdibikanyways, class is over, i need to nom nom some lunch21:57
_Jozeph_Stskeeps, no problem. I just would like to keep you in my contacts. :D It's not everyday that I found a old friend.21:57
Xisdibikill be back later21:57
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jophishDoes anybody here use mpd/mpc22:03
MohammadAGhaye it when the n900 gets stuck in portrait mode22:03
* MohammadAG kills hildon-desktop22:03
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MohammadAGlol it's stuck in half portrait mode22:09
MohammadAGmight have to kill systemui22:09
SpeedEvilkillall -FIRE *22:10
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_Jozeph_Stskeeps, did you receive pvt msgs?22:12
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RST38hThe researchers found that people who reported feeling a great deal of boredom were 37 per cent more likely to have died by the end of the study.22:13
_Jozeph_See you later... I will connect from home.22:15
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SpeedEvilEasy cure for boredom.22:15
* SpeedEvil gets out the flamethrower.22:15
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SpeedEvilTrue. Thumbscrews work too.22:17
SpeedEvilDon't be silly.22:19
SpeedEvilhelium is monatomic.22:19
jophishniekt0, portrait mode terminal? Tricky to use the keyboard22:20
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niekt0my friend just take n900, contact list was vertical, rotated phone, and killed contact list app before it can rotate. Now whole desktop is vertical;)22:22
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SpeedEvilxrandr -o left works too22:22
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wacklniekt0: i had the option enabled to start the phone app when rotated. after this i got the rotated desktop/applications multiple times when rotated at the "wrong" time22:24
niekt0stupid race condition, but it's funny;)22:27
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jophishIn the garage autobuilder, is there any way to get it to use debhelper7?22:50
jophishhere is the error:
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jophishthere is also this error
jophishto compile that package, the -dev deb of the previous package is needed22:51
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jophishpresumably once the previous one compiles correctly, the second one will too.22:52
tripzerowhen is ovi-maps navigation coming to the n900/maemo?22:52
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jophishwould it help to put debhelper7 into the build dependencies?22:54
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SpeedEviltripzero: a question without a (public) answer.22:54
* tripzero cries22:55
* SpeedEvil dries tripzeros tears.22:56
* SpeedEvil puts away the flamethrower.22:56
tripzerothanks, and ouch22:56
* tripzero wonders why it's being held back...22:57
SpeedEvilIt's probably rather expensive to license.22:57
tripzeronokia owns it tho, don't they?22:57
jophishI guessed that it would take developer time better spent elsewhere22:58
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SpeedEviloops - I forgot that, yes.22:58
tripzeronavigation is a killer app22:58
SpeedEvilthough I'm unsure how integrated the internal accounting is.22:58
tripzeroseems like resources for it would be crucial22:58
SpeedEvilthe buisness structure may work so that nokia-phone has to pay nokia-maps money22:58
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tripzerooh, is it because n900 is unlocked?22:59
jophishwow, that would be crazy22:59
tripzeroso they don't have a carrier deal to make reoccuring money off it?22:59
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doubleukayhi guys, do you guys know any way to sync tasks in the n900, to thunderbird?23:01
doubleukayI tried syncing with google calendar as it interoperates with both exchange and caldav, but it turns out they don't sync tasks23:02
SpeedEviltripzero: it's a seperate issue - though yes it is genreally unlocked23:02
SpeedEviljophish: You expected corporate accounting to make sense?23:03
jophishA fraction of a percent, yes23:03
SpeedEvilIt may have done before the turn of the millenium (999->1000) but not since.23:03
wirelessdreamernokia has almost always been focused on unsubsidised handsets though23:03
tripzerohmm... looks like it will be available for the n900?
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luke-jrfree? really?23:06
luke-jror just gratis? -.-23:06
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v13I used ovi-maps navigation and i haven't paid anything23:06
tripzeroprobably just gratis23:06
jophishtripzero, the quote was for maemo, not for the n90023:06
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jophishmost likely for Maemo 623:06
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tripzeromaemo 6 better work on the n90023:06
tripzeroor i'm going to cry more23:06
luke-jrtripzero: unlikely.23:07
woglindego crying now23:07
tripzerowhy the heck not23:07
doubleukayps aux23:07
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luke-jrtripzero: because Nokia has no interest in supporting devices you've already paid for?23:07
jophishtripzero, the same reason that Fremantle doesn't run on the n81023:07
wirelessdreamernext device better have usb host23:07
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tripzerojophish, i thought that was a hardware difference23:08
tripzeroie, opengl support is lacking on the n8x23:08
woglindetripzero hm not really23:08
tripzeron900 runs opengl like a champ23:08
luke-jrtripzero: Nokia stopped supporting N8x0 almost a year before N900 was released23:08
wirelessdreamerthey're still better then sharp, they didn't support the zaurus line at all23:09
luke-jrlonger, for some parts23:09
luke-jrwirelessdreamer: true23:09
wirelessdreamerand at least there is a sane base to start with in maemo23:09
wirelessdreamerwell . . . semi-sane23:09
mak89khey, i have downloaded the maemo sdk from the .. the simulator works fine.. now want start writing some apps.. what is the best IDE for this?23:09
wirelessdreamerpython needs help23:09
luke-jrand N900 is better than N8x023:09
luke-jrbut still23:10
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luke-jrwirelessdreamer: Python needs help period. that's not Nokia's fault ;:p23:10
luke-jrmak89k: Qt Creator?23:10
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mak89kis there a maemo plugin for it?23:10
wirelessdreamerbut they patially packages 2.3 and 2.523:10
luke-jrmak89k: the key thing is to write the app on your main system, and just be aware that the screen will be smalelr23:10
wirelessdreamerits a real pain to get any real python app running23:10
luke-jrmak89k: maybe test it with 640x480 windows23:11
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luke-jrmak89k: once it works locally, then worry about cross-compiling it23:11
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mak89kluke-jr: ok il keep it in mind.. so how do i go abt using qt for maemo23:12
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luke-jrmak89k: writing platform-specific software is bad by design23:13
mak89kluke-jr: ok :) i have installed the sdk 5 using gui installer.. is there anything else i should configure?23:15
mak89kwirelessdreamer: thanks !!23:15
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MohammadAGcoarse accuracy means using the cell tower23:16
MohammadAGwhat's fine accuracy23:16
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mak89ki get the sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: prompt..23:17
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MohammadAGty SpeedEvil, just making sure23:18
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SpeedEvilWhater' you trying.23:18
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Vanadisi'm having a really strange problem with my n90023:20
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Vanadisthe upper is my keyboard-layout23:22
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SpeedEvilVanadis: Is it causing you to have disturbing dreams of palaces of ice filled with dusky maidens with antlers?23:22
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jophishIf I promote a package to testing, is it necessary to promote the dbg, dev and doc packages?23:22
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Vanadisand it seems, i have changed the "." and "," button to left-button23:23
Vanadisoh wait23:23
Vanadisall other buttons are changed too -.-23:24
merpgreetings. attempting to get palm bluetooth keyboard 3245ww working with n900. It pairs fine, but not much else. Opening up memo, typing on keyboard doesn't do anythign. obviously I'm missing a step. can someone point out where I configure bluetooth keyboard options? thanks.23:24
b-man17Vanadis: did you recently install anything that has to do with ketymapping?23:24
Vanadisnot particularly, but i guess this is the problem23:25
X-Fademerp: hid is disabled in bluez config, you need to enable it.23:25
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merpok, so follow this then: ?23:25
Vanadisis there any good way to see, which keyboard-settings are used?23:26
X-Fademerp: Yes.23:26
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merpthanks X-Fade23:26
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b-man17Vanadis: what was the last thing you installed before this happened?23:26
Vanadisi guess it was qtirreco23:27
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b-man17or changed23:30
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Vanadisdunno, i think i'm just going to reflash it23:30
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simoneb_is there a way to start osso_notes with a file of my choice? like in, "gedit/vim/nano mytextfile.txt"23:34
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simoneb_osso_notes mytextfile.txt always starts with the last modified file23:34
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Vanadishow long does reflashing usually goes on N900?23:41
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X-FadeVanadis: 20 seconds?23:42
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Vanadistoo long -.-23:43
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microlithreflash probably takes a minute or two23:44
microliththe progress indicators are reliable23:44
Vanadisdon't need to reflash, resetting in the "settings-menu" did it23:44
microlithwhich reminds me23:45
microlithdoes anyone know if there's a maemo-targeted of the util-linux-ng package?23:45
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microlithbusybox's mount command is pissing me off23:45
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microlithmaemo-targeted package*23:46
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jophishHow often does the testing repository update promoted packages?23:51
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jebbaonce an hour i think.23:55
X-Fade1800 seconds for it to be visible on the repository (worst case)23:56
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