| SpeedEvil | something like "sh -c 'nohup rm &'" | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| SpeedEvil | there should be a proper way | 00:00 |
| lcuk_ | ssh bb@1.2.3.4 "sh -c 'nohup blah &'" ? :D | 00:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | something like that | 00:01 |
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| TZander | quick question; whats the url I have to fill in for getting the maemo extra repo on my n900? | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | sh -c is 'run this command' | 00:01 |
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| * lcuk_ is still seeing much console | 00:02 | |
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| lcuk_ | gary@gary-laptop:~$ ssh root@10.0.0.8 "sh -c 'nohup liqbase-playground-run.sh &'" | 00:03 |
| lcuk_ | and it didnt return to command line | 00:03 |
| woglinde | hms | 00:03 |
| woglinde | where is my package on autobuilder gone | 00:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk_: hmm. | 00:04 |
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| woglinde | whats this zhhk all? | 00:05 |
| woglinde | stuff | 00:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk_: ssh root@phone 'sh -c "nohup espeak \"this is a test test test\"&"'& | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | - for the wrong way :) | 00:07 |
| woglinde | espeak rockz | 00:08 |
| lbt | lcuk_: redirect stdin/out/err to /dev/null | 00:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | lbt: nohup does that though | 00:08 |
| SpeedEvil | it's the shell waiting till there are no jobs to complte I guess | 00:09 |
| lbt | ssh elm 'nohup sleep 10 </dev/null >/dev/null 2>&1 &' | 00:09 |
| lcuk_ | lbt, thats good, but not what i want - i dont want the console output sending over the network at all | 00:09 |
| Luser | or use screen | 00:09 |
| lcuk_ | im aiming to run this on 4 different devices at once | 00:09 |
| lcuk_ | and im kinda verbose with my console | 00:09 |
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| lcuk_ | SpeedEvil, thats good, but doesnt work | 00:09 |
| lbt | ^^ should do what you need | 00:09 |
| lcuk_ | it splits to another process before i can be asked for password | 00:09 |
| Remosi | &>/dev/null ? | 00:09 |
| lcuk_ | those redirects happen on laptop dont they? | 00:10 |
| lcuk_ | not on the n900 | 00:10 |
| lbt | no it uses ' | 00:10 |
| lbt | so the ssh command passes everything inside the '' | 00:10 |
| lbt | to the destination | 00:10 |
| woglinde | hms | 00:11 |
| lcuk_ | ahhh cool, ill try in 2 | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 00:11 |
| lbt | ssh plays games with std* | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | ssh -f root@phone 'sh -c "nohup espeak \"this is a test test test\"&"' | 00:11 |
| woglinde | wo feeded the autobuilder this much up | 00:11 |
| woglinde | dman zhhk stuff | 00:11 |
| lbt | so I guess nohup doesn't see them as a terminal | 00:11 |
| odin_ | hmm... when you hover-and-wait over a URL in microb is displayed a context menu... wouldn't it be great if it also displayed the full URL at the bottom of the screen ? | 00:11 |
| odin_ | also... can anyone confirm a bug with the display is that context menu ? take a close look at the edges of it, shouldn't they be rounded with some alpha-channel ? but mine are white in 55-1 | 00:12 |
| woglinde | wtf | 00:12 |
| woglinde | its all i386 only | 00:12 |
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| alterego | So, should I integrate my incoming call firewall configurator into the settings manager? or have it stand alone. | 00:12 |
| woglinde | LazyFai Fai Wong | 00:14 |
| woglinde | burn him | 00:14 |
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| tybollt | hmm the bizarre audio issues I were having seems to have been fixed by a reboot | 00:14 |
| tybollt | so pulseaudio you say, huh? :-S | 00:14 |
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| woglinde | tyboolt intressting | 00:15 |
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| odin_ | alterego, integrate :) (thats my vote) | 00:15 |
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| lcuk_ | lbt that keeps the ssh session open though doesnt it | 00:16 |
| lbt | not for me | 00:16 |
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| lcuk_ | ahh cool | 00:16 |
| woglinde | hi lbt | 00:16 |
| lbt | ssh elm 'sleep 10 </dev/null >/dev/null 2>&1 &' | 00:17 |
| lbt | the nohup is redundant | 00:17 |
| woglinde | hm | 00:17 |
| lbt | hi woglinde | 00:17 |
| woglinde | normaly nohup detchaes from shell | 00:17 |
| Luser | isn't screen available in the repositories? probably better | 00:18 |
| lcuk_ | cool guys, thanks | 00:18 |
| lcuk_ | that seems to work now | 00:18 |
| lbt | yes it does | 00:18 |
| lcuk_ | screen isnt what i want | 00:18 |
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| lcuk_ | i just want to run an app on all devices at once | 00:18 |
| woglinde | parrallel-ssh? | 00:18 |
| lcuk_ | kindof | 00:18 |
| lbt | well, it doesn't really detach.. it redirects filehandles from the shell | 00:18 |
| lbt | lcuk_: this way is the right way | 00:19 |
| Luser | parallel-ssh yes | 00:19 |
| lcuk_ | which way lbt? | 00:19 |
| lcuk_ | your console redirction? | 00:19 |
| lbt | yes | 00:20 |
| * lcuk_ nods | 00:20 | |
| woglinde | oha thats bad from the i386 autobuilder -> configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables | 00:20 |
| lbt | it's what anything else would do for you | 00:20 |
| lcuk_ | woglinde, c compilers generally dont produce executables | 00:20 |
| lcuk_ | the linker does | 00:21 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I've neve looked at Brainstorm in any way other than "oh, this link's taken me to Brainstorm; and - oh, quelle surprise - the most ludicrous, idealistic, unobtainable "solution" has been voted highest. | 00:21 |
| lbt | :D | 00:21 |
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| lcuk_ | lbt, i have networked graffiti wall working :) | 00:21 |
| lcuk_ | completely adhoc | 00:22 |
| * Jaffa goes to watch some most BSG | 00:22 | |
| * lcuk_ should watch the last series of bsg | 00:22 | |
| lbt | lcuk_: nice | 00:22 |
| woglinde | hm every 2 minutes a package | 00:22 |
| * lbt has bsg on dvd.... courtesy of mrs lbt | 00:22 | |
| lbt | all of them | 00:22 |
| * Jaffa 's just finished rewatching Season 1. May get through first quarter of season 2 tonight | 00:22 | |
| lbt | mmm | 00:22 |
| lbt | multi-season b5 marathons spring to mind | 00:23 |
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| * lcuk_ needs to put all rest of babylon5 onto computer | 00:23 | |
| lcuk_ | lol | 00:23 |
| lbt | mythtv 4ever | 00:23 |
| lcuk_ | ditto | 00:23 |
| * ifreq just aquired star trek voyager | 00:23 | |
| ifreq | and some borg collection set | 00:23 |
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| woglinde | hm I need to finish naruto | 00:23 |
| lcuk_ | "you are the one that was, you are the one that is, you are the one who will be" | 00:24 |
| lcuk_ | lbt, b5 series 5 | 00:25 |
| lcuk_ | with cpt lockley | 00:25 |
| lbt | that was so cool | 00:25 |
| lcuk_ | good bad or indifferent | 00:25 |
| lbt | bab4 | 00:25 |
| lbt | <shiver> | 00:26 |
| lcuk_ | i thought it was tied up at end of 4 too | 00:26 |
| * Jaffa 's not sure he's ever seen season 5 of B5 | 00:26 | |
| lbt | <shock | 00:26 |
| lbt | (notice lack of closure) | 00:26 |
| lcuk_ | jaffa its not such a bad thing, i dont recall much from it | 00:26 |
| Jaffa | I think I was watching it on C4 and they dicked around with the scheduling | 00:26 |
| lbt | I have DVDs if required | 00:27 |
| * lcuk_ thinks the b5 saga was enthralling | 00:27 | |
| TZander | quick question; whats the url I have to fill in for getting the maemo extra repo on my n900? | 00:27 |
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| lcuk_ | TZander, maemo extras is available on the device repo list | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | TZander, none, it's built-in. | 00:27 |
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| lcuk_ | when you buy it, did you wipe it out? | 00:27 |
| TZander | hmm, interesting. I was hoping to find the office-viewer based on koffice in it, but it doesn't seem to show up. | 00:28 |
| TZander | ok, then I'm not sure why as the maemo repo is enabeld | 00:28 |
| lcuk_ | not in extras yet | 00:28 |
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| lcuk_ | probably anyway | 00:29 |
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| woglinde | its real funny how much packages end up in i386 inly | 00:29 |
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| * frals reads RevdKathys latest blogpost and blushes slightly | 00:37 | |
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| woglinde | frals lets see | 00:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/60267.html | 00:40 |
| odin_ | what the best way to get a screen shot from N900 ? either from running someone from SSH or app with a time delay | 00:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | ctrl-shft-p | 00:41 |
| range | CTRL-SHIT-P | 00:41 |
| range | Or shift. | 00:42 |
| pupnik | umm she gets the first sentence wrong, no? | 00:42 |
| * range crawls back under the rock | 00:42 | |
| odin_ | but I need my other hand to hold pointer on screen, lol | 00:43 |
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| lbt | texrat# | 00:45 |
| lbt | :D | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, guess it's a Talk thing. | 00:46 |
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| odin_ | ah Ctrl-Shift-P is not working... I guess because I'm trying to screen shot a context-menu (and i guess the keyboard/mouse has been grabbed by the widget) | 00:51 |
| __ibz | ctrl-shift-p gives no indication that it's "worked" for me - i just happened to find dozens of screenshots in my pictures folder a while later.. | 00:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it's working, it just doesn't have an indicator. | 00:54 |
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| * GeneralAntilles files bugs for X-Fade. | 00:55 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Easier than trying to pin him down. | 00:55 |
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| Luser | how does the n900 show in apache access log? The Useragent? | 01:00 |
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| Lynoure | Luser: try it? | 01:01 |
| Luser | Lynoure, you send me an n900 ? :) | 01:01 |
| frals | Luser: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv7l; en-GB; rv:1.9.2a1pre) Gecko/20091127 Firefox/3.5 Maemo Browser 1.5.6 RX-51 N900 | 01:01 |
| Lynoure | Luser: oh, thought you to have one... | 01:01 |
| Luser | I mean I have a repository. apt-get useragent | 01:02 |
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| Luser | I see this http://pastebin.com/m399e0044 | 01:03 |
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| Luser | nevermind | 01:06 |
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| tybollt | APM | 01:11 |
| tybollt | ooops | 01:11 |
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| woglinde | lumdidum | 01:42 |
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| woglinde | go navit go | 01:42 |
| jon1012 | navit ? | 01:43 |
| jon1012 | anyone knows if turn by turn voice nav is coming to ovi maps on n900 ? | 01:43 |
| woglinde | no | 01:44 |
| Tester | jon1012: some VP said it was coming to maemo, not sure if it means n900 or not | 01:44 |
| jon1012 | so, I just bought a 650 euros device, that won't support next update of the os (maemo 6), and won't have what all the others cheaper models of the company will have ? :( | 01:44 |
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| woglinde | jon give it back | 01:45 |
| jon1012 | I can't | 01:45 |
| woglinde | thats what al unsatisfied customers does | 01:46 |
| jon1012 | I have it for one month | 01:46 |
| jon1012 | (sometimes I start thinking I should have gone for the moto milestone :() | 01:46 |
| jon1012 | (even if I love linux, gtk, python and all that...) | 01:46 |
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| jon1012 | sorry, I stop ranting | 01:48 |
| woglinde | no | 01:48 |
| woglinde | I cannt understand you | 01:48 |
| woglinde | ups | 01:48 |
| woglinde | I can | 01:48 |
| woglinde | for my self I wouldnt have spent the 600 euros | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | jon1012, unknown at this point. | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | jon1012, my recommendation is to call up Nokia Care and express your displeasure. | 01:49 |
| woglinde | luckily my company sees mameo as strategic platform and bought 3 | 01:49 |
| FIQ | if maemo6 doesn't come with n900, i will be angry. :< | 01:49 |
| jon1012 | GeneralAntilles: last time I did (it was for my 770, some years ago), they somehow told me that they didn't care at all :) | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | jon1012, Nokia USA should be better these days. | 01:50 |
| jon1012 | I'm in France | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, well then. | 01:51 |
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| woglinde | re ken-young | 01:51 |
| tybollt | I don't particularely fancy linux, it's not very good. But looking at what else is out there, it's a hell of a lot better, so yeah I went for the N900 | 01:51 |
| jon1012 | (even worse, I had to fake a device id to get someone at the hotline, as the maemo based ones weren't accepted in answering system) | 01:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles got it down to 15 UNCONFIRMED for the last 24 hours. | 01:51 | |
| GeneralAntilles | tybollt, not very good compared to WHAT? | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | tybollt, and what's your qualification? | 01:52 |
| tybollt | Oh dear, "not very good" was perhaps a bit clumsy, it is very good. :) | 01:53 |
| jon1012 | by the way, a good idea for maemo would be some kind of directory of optimised sites for maemo devices (websites that support high resolution devices with a touch screen :) - big fonts, and stuff like that) | 01:54 |
| tybollt | I was just talking back to this jon1012 person :) | 01:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jon1012, but the whole point of MicroB is that you don't NEED to use mobile-optimized sites. | 01:54 |
| tybollt | jon1012: IMHO no, that's all what apple does is it not? I like the N900 because it does fine w/out the need for specialized sites. | 01:55 |
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| woglinde | armel build for navit is through | 01:55 |
| tybollt | GeneralAntilles++ | 01:55 |
| jon1012 | GeneralAntilles: yeah but I don't want to zoom in and out all the time to have readable sites without having to put the device 2 mm from my eyes :p | 01:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Time for a better prescription? ;) | 01:55 |
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| * GeneralAntilles doesn't know why he bought California oranges. | 01:55 | |
| jon1012 | lol | 01:56 |
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| jon1012 | anyway ctrl + shift + i adapt most mobile websites and that's great | 01:56 |
| jon1012 | it should be a visible option though, something thazt can be activated in the menu | 01:56 |
| jon1012 | insted of an obscure keyboard shortcut | 01:57 |
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| woglinde | yes | 01:57 |
| woglinde | navit 0.2.0~svn2916+dfsg.1-1maemo1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository | 01:57 |
| jon1012 | woglinde: does it have voice nav ? | 01:57 |
| woglinde | jon only through espeak | 01:58 |
| woglinde | try apt-get install espeak | 01:58 |
| woglinde | espeak "Hello" | 01:58 |
| jon1012 | ok | 01:58 |
| jon1012 | is it safe to install navit on my device (optified and all) ? | 01:58 |
| woglinde | if this is good enough than fine | 01:58 |
| woglinde | jon1012 my dear I spent some hours to optify by hand | 01:59 |
| jon1012 | great ! | 01:59 |
| woglinde | but unfornatly it isnt so much stable at moment | 01:59 |
| woglinde | and you have do setup so things | 01:59 |
| woglinde | for instance download map stuff | 02:00 |
| woglinde | which cann't be shipped | 02:00 |
| woglinde | and enable it | 02:00 |
| jon1012 | like from where ? | 02:00 |
| woglinde | mom | 02:00 |
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| woglinde | http://maps.navit-project.org/download/ | 02:01 |
| woglinde | openstreemap baes | 02:01 |
| woglinde | based | 02:01 |
| woglinde | you have to make .navit/map.xml in the homedir | 02:01 |
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| woglinde | ups .navit/maps.xml | 02:02 |
| woglinde | with similar line | 02:02 |
| woglinde | <map type="binfile" enabled="yes" data="/home/user/henning.bin"/> | 02:02 |
| woglinde | where henning.bin is the file you downloaded from maps.navit | 02:03 |
| woglinde | to tryout speech | 02:03 |
| woglinde | make .navit/speech.xml | 02:03 |
| woglinde | and add <speech type="espeak" enabled="yes"/> | 02:04 |
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| jon1012 | ok | 02:07 |
| woglinde | hm | 02:09 |
| woglinde | speechtype is wrong | 02:09 |
| woglinde | okay | 02:09 |
| woglinde | args | 02:10 |
| woglinde | hms | 02:11 |
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| woglinde | where is the espeak support gone | 02:11 |
| Luser | is valgrind available for n8x0? | 02:12 |
| woglinde | Luser dont think so | 02:12 |
| Tester | Luser: you can run it in sbox x86 | 02:12 |
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| Luser | okay thanks | 02:12 |
| jon1012 | I've seen that there are a couple gtk mapping widgets out there for maemo | 02:12 |
| jon1012 | is there one with python bindings ? | 02:13 |
| Tester | jon1012: libchamplain does | 02:13 |
| jon1012 | (python bidning already available as deb) | 02:13 |
| jon1012 | is it packaged ? (with python bindings) | 02:13 |
| teilzeitstudent | Anyone around with some knowledge about the inner magic of the theming engine used in maemo 5/ n900? I'm curious about some icon theme mechanisms | 02:13 |
| woglinde | args I forgot to enable espeak via lib | 02:13 |
| Tester | its packaged, not sure about the bindings | 02:13 |
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| jon1012 | Tester: that's what I've seen :( | 02:14 |
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| jon1012 | the bindings don't seem to be packaged :( | 02:14 |
| jon1012 | (and I'm not a packager at all unfortunately) | 02:14 |
| Tester | you can ask pierlux, he's the author | 02:14 |
| Tester | (and the packager) | 02:14 |
| jon1012 | pierlux: ping :) | 02:15 |
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| * w00t sighs | 02:15 | |
| w00t | I really hate finding bugs in other software while writing my own :) | 02:15 |
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| woglinde | lol | 02:22 |
| woglinde | espeak works | 02:22 |
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| red | Yo dawg, I herd you like macs, so we put only one pedal to your car. | 03:04 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | night. | 03:19 |
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| mtnbkr | Anyone know if you can change the IM notification sound and if yes, what file needs to be replaced and what formats (ogg vorbis, mp3 etc) are supported? Thanks! | 03:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ooooh | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | cat /proc/interrupts |grep lis | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | now - tap the case a couple of times | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | and it increments | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | so the driver is clearly doing something with the tap-detection-interrupts | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder wehre it goes | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | /dev/input/* diddn't turn up results | 03:33 |
| n1c0 | is there a software on maemo to use webcam and OCR to autocopy some documents or blackboard ? | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | not yet | 03:33 |
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| anidel | www.n900-mobile.co.uk for the developers community video...very cool | 03:37 |
| n1c0 | SpeedEvil: do you think it's possible ? no pb with shaking or opacity maybe | 03:37 |
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| n1c0 | is there some phone device which can do it ? | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | n1c0: In principle OCR of buisness cards is possible - obviously. the camera is quite good enough. | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | blackboards are more complex | 03:38 |
| anidel | spot gary, tim samoff, jaffa,me etc :p | 03:38 |
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| SyncA | hi all | 04:29 |
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| dotblank | hmm anyone get random disconnects on facebook? | 04:36 |
| dotblank | I mean gtalk* | 04:37 |
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| mgregsond | dotblank: I do, but I think it's probably network related... | 04:40 |
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| dotblank | hmm | 04:40 |
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| dotblank | did the latest firmware add support for AIM. cause I don't recollect that being an option before | 04:41 |
| mgregsond | dotblank: I think it was? But it might have been an extra package. | 04:41 |
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| BLUG_Fred | morning! does anyone knows if wxpython has been ported to maemo? | 05:02 |
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| Damion2 | morning | 05:16 |
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| Damion | a | 05:17 |
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| MistaED | hi all | 05:34 |
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| MistaED | could someone help me with mud-builder? more notably where the repository mirrors section is so i can change it to a local mirror, thanks! i'm in the mood to be porting some needed stuff for my n900 :P | 05:39 |
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| DantonicN800 | hi | 05:40 |
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| DantonicN800 | does anyone know how to add app icons from easy debian on the n900? I'd like to add shortcuts fir a few progs including open office. | 05:42 |
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| pupnik | MistaED: perhaps mud-builder author knows | 05:46 |
| MistaED | pupnik: ja, i think i've found it now it seems to be package-specific or at least the one i was trying to get is | 05:51 |
| pupnik | i think i was the first person to test it | 05:52 |
| pupnik | let me know if i should try it again | 05:52 |
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| microlith | does the open office in easy debian have a redone UI, or is it the standard one smashed into the N900's dimensions | 06:03 |
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| bfree | microlith: I'm 99% certain easy debian provides the debian packages, so it would be the standard UI | 06:04 |
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| shamus | suprising how easy of a fix the balck on balck text was for pidgin | 06:36 |
| shamus | all one needed to do was creat a gtk thingy in the .purple folder | 06:36 |
| shamus | create a file named "gtkrc-2.0" in .purple dir in your home and put | 06:37 |
| shamus | the following in it: | 06:37 |
| shamus | style "Custom" | 06:37 |
| shamus | { | 06:37 |
| shamus | base[NORMAL] = "#292B29" | 06:37 |
| shamus | } | 06:37 |
| shamus | class "GtkWidget" style "Custom" | 06:37 |
| shamus | and sudenly pidnen is aculy useable | 06:37 |
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| MistaED | cross-compiling makes me angry, the most frustrating thing in the world to get it to work *vents* | 07:02 |
| pupnik | freakin dropped n900 again | 07:02 |
| pupnik | no visible damage | 07:02 |
| * MistaED follows the scratchbox dev tutorials again | 07:03 | |
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| pupnik | compiling should be easy | 07:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles is working on the Bugzilla report card. | 07:03 | |
| pupnik | MistaED: what exactly are you trying to do? | 07:04 |
| MistaED | pupnik: get a debian source file and compile it in scratchbox, the x86 side works fine and i get my debs but the armel side just goes "quilt can't find bash" | 07:06 |
| MistaED | i'm wondering how the hell do you compile for arm, ;) | 07:06 |
| MistaED | the general idea is to go into the ARMEL target and do your configures/makes or deb making as usual or do you do it from X86 with special hooks? the documentation doesn't really cover this well or at least i'm not finding the section where it explains it | 07:07 |
| pupnik | quilt caused me weeks of grief | 07:07 |
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| * SpeedEvil uses blankets. | 07:08 | |
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| pupnik | that is debian patch crap. compiling from a makefile works great | 07:09 |
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| MistaED | i tried compiling something else from a makefile and it choked because i'm using ARMEL, but that could just be the package i was trying to build | 07:10 |
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| * MistaED tries building another package | 07:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, so, random stats for Fremantle Browser: 194 total bugs (31 DUPLICATE), 17 UNCONFIRMED (8 moreinfo), 57 NEW (2 moreinfo), 2 REOPENED, 4 ASSIGNED, 114 RESOLVED (36 FIXED). | 07:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's a %58.7 resolution rate. | 07:16 |
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| odin_ | is the repo up ? I am trying to install scratchbox, but the script does not error, it just hangs on me (for over 2 mins before I kill it) am trying GUI install | 07:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Same for Fremantle Modest: 266 total bugs (60 DUPLICATE), 35 UNCONFIRMED (17 moreinfo), 70 NEW (1 moreinfo), 10 REOPENED, 3 ASSIGNED, 148 RESOLVED (58 FIXED). | 07:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | %55.6 resolution rate. | 07:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | how many of those are closed with 'move to brainstorm' ? | 07:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 1 for Browser, 8 for Modest | 07:26 |
| SpeedEvil | that's getting there. | 07:27 |
| odin_ | ah maybe my issue is something to do with trying to run the Python scratchbox installed via an "su" to root session | 07:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume a modest subset of the fixes aren't out to users as they're post 1.1? | 07:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 19 FIXED with target milestone 5.0+ for Browser | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | 27 FIXED with target milestone 5.0+ for Modest | 07:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Nice to see them squashed :) | 07:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bullshit percentage: "Positive" resolution rate (i.e., FIXED) is %18.5 for Browser and %21.8 for Modest. | 07:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Weirdly consistent rates we're getting here. | 07:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Someone is paid to submit bugs that they find in the code while searching for other bugs, hence boosting the fix rate! | 07:30 |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders other fun conspiracy theories. | 07:30 | |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders where the largish 1Hz signal in the accellerometers comes from. | 07:32 | |
| SpeedEvil | I suppose I need to FFT it. | 07:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, same for Fremantle h-a-m, 86 total bugs (16 DUPLICATE), 6 UNCONFIRMED (3 moreinfo), 26 NEW (1 moreinfo), 0 REOPENED, 0 ASSIGNED, 54 RESOLVED (23 FIXED). | 07:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | %62.8 resolution rate, %26.7 "positive" resolution rate. | 07:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | No Brainstorm | 07:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2 unshipped 5.0+ target milestone fixes. | 07:35 |
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| MistaED | quick question, is fremantle more compatible with debian stable or testing or another one? | 07:40 |
| MistaED | and don't say it's based on the ancient woody or sarge lol | 07:40 |
| SpeedEvil | It probably is forked off relatively long ago. | 07:41 |
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| villager | MistaED: it's close to etch | 07:44 |
| villager | or close*st*, not particularly close anyway | 07:45 |
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| MistaED | thanks villager | 07:48 |
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| crashanddie | god how the fuck do we allow such nonsense to get to the first page of maemo.org? | 08:03 |
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| crashanddie | what kind of misbred twat compares javascript with java, and using that comparison to say "Maemo is better because you're not limited to javascript and have the full power of Linux" | 08:04 |
| crashanddie | What. The. Fuck? | 08:04 |
| pupnik | ? | 08:04 |
| crashanddie | http://karoliinamaemoblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/why-maemo-is-powerful-platform-because.html | 08:05 |
| MistaED | pupnik: did you ever solve that quilt issue? | 08:05 |
| pupnik | i had a lot of them. not the same error as you | 08:06 |
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| pupnik | so far the article is spot on crashanddie | 08:07 |
| crashanddie | it's a big pile of crap | 08:07 |
| pupnik | would you like to quote an error for us? | 08:07 |
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| pupnik | the front page explains why maemo offers choices between high and low level apps, and why that is a good thing | 08:10 |
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| pupnik | perhaps you are offended when non-americans write english | 08:11 |
| pupnik | but if something is erroneous or misleading, i ' confident it can be fixed | 08:12 |
| pupnik | i'm | 08:12 |
| bfree | MistaED: your error basically said that bash isn't installed in the arm environment (and is presumably a build dependency of the package you wanted to install). I'm afriad I haven't played with the maemo scratchbox setup though so don't know how you are meant to draw in build-deps :-/ | 08:13 |
| pupnik | ahh. ty. i usually apt-get or wget them into the sbix armel target | 08:14 |
| MistaED | bfree: pretty much you just apt-get them in, based on the target you're in but i've got the packs it needs, grr | 08:15 |
| MistaED | thanks for the advice though | 08:15 |
| MistaED | it looks like quilt points to a special compat dir to the bins it needs but i guess they're broken or something | 08:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, don't get your panties in a bundle. :P | 08:16 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I'm replying by blog post | 08:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, go be productive and respond to my mails on -community instead. | 08:17 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: respond to your own emails | 08:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't, the mailer doesn't send them back to me. :( | 08:17 |
| crashanddie | Just reply to what you have in your outbox | 08:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Only crazy people talk to themselves. | 08:19 |
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| spectre- | mornin | 08:42 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2010/01/being-native-doesnt-give-you-any-rights.html | 08:54 |
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| LuciusMare | hi | 08:56 |
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| LuciusMare | i have a small python library, with functions that i use in my scripts, does it make sense to upload it to the repos? | 08:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | "oops" | 09:12 |
| timeless_mbp | the connectivity code (at least in my version of Maemo) has a minor glitch :) | 09:12 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, two minor glitches? | 09:13 |
| timeless_mbp | it doesn't seem to clear the 'No available networks' state as it finds networks :o | 09:13 |
| mgregsond | timeless_mbp: This doesn't seem minor? | 09:14 |
| timeless_mbp | mgregsond: i presume if i dismiss the dialog and try it again, it'll go away :) | 09:15 |
| mgregsond | timeless_mbp: heh | 09:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd push screen shots, but the dialog is system modal, and obviously i don't have a network :) | 09:16 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: that link might interest you too ;) | 09:16 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I'd be tempted to submit to planet maemo, but somehow I'm getting the feeling I wouldn't get that many thumbs up ;) | 09:17 |
| mgregsond | lol | 09:17 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: the article is wrong | 09:18 |
| timeless_mbp | Palm Pre uses JavaScript as its primary app authoring environment | 09:19 |
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| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: the SDK isn't public yet, is it? | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: the article claims "WebOS doesn't even have an official SDK available from Palm" | 09:19 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: and you can run C code if you want | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp | which to me means "yes, the primary way to write apps is with javascript" | 09:20 |
| timeless_mbp | and the app author knows it. | 09:20 |
| timeless_mbp | s/app/page/ | 09:20 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: and the page author knows it. | 09:20 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: what the fuck are you on about, there is no SDK out there | 09:20 |
| crashanddie | it comes out in march | 09:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't say sdk, you did :) | 09:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i said "primary app authoring environment" :) | 09:20 |
| crashanddie | my point exactly | 09:20 |
| crashanddie | meh, whatever | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp | hey, i'm careful with my words | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp | she isn't | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp | nor is, sadly, the author of that blog | 09:21 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: that's me ;) | 09:21 |
| spectre- | haha | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, if you're going to stress a word in a later quote, | 09:22 |
| timeless_mbp | stress "more", not "and" | 09:22 |
| crashanddie | I didn't stress that | 09:22 |
| crashanddie | she did | 09:22 |
| crashanddie | just raw copy paste | 09:22 |
| timeless_mbp | including the underscoring? | 09:22 |
| crashanddie | as far as I can tell, yeah | 09:23 |
| crashanddie | I had some issues with the editing, the whole layout kept fucking up, had to go through a simple text editor to get rid of the embedded styles | 09:23 |
| crashanddie | might have jumped at that point | 09:23 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 09:23 |
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| crashanddie | I hate how sometimes instead of getting good simple text the whole thing flukes up | 09:23 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 09:25 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: yeah, underscores are on her blog | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | is there a link to her blog from this article? | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't found it yet | 09:25 |
| crashanddie | links jumped, adding them again | 09:25 |
| crashanddie | give me two minutes | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | sure | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, can you tag the article en-GB? :) | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | you might stick "our platform" into quotes | 09:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh | 09:28 |
| timeless_mbp | did i ever publish my article about finnish cliques? | 09:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i think i might have forgotten to write it | 09:28 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: updated | 09:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the short version: Finnish cliques are much much worse than high school cliques | 09:29 |
| crashanddie | why tag it en-GB? | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | and they last for an entire lifetime | 09:29 |
| crashanddie | never used tags in blogger | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | "revolutionise" | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | just a personal complaint ;) | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't use blogger, i'm not even sure it's valid | 09:30 |
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| * timeless_mbp kicks safari.app for being stupid | 09:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | (yes, i'm too lazy to change my default browser to something that doesn't suck) | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | at ~2/3 million hits | 09:31 |
| crashanddie | I like safari | 09:31 |
| * RST38bis yawns and loudly wonders if sysstat is available for fremqntle | 09:31 | |
| crashanddie | I prefer the URL bar to that of ff | 09:31 |
| crashanddie | I hate how the FF awesome bar | 09:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | OmniWeb FTW | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: my biggest problem w/ safari is that opening a tab causes it to hang for *ages* | 09:32 |
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| crashanddie | yeah, it can do that | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure if it's actually spawning a child process | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | or if it's because it's getting tab previews | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | or if it has issues w/ my file system (not HFS*) | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | but it *sucks* | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i can open a new window in MicroB faster | 09:32 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: if you have a system monitor, you'll notice that all the CPUs of the system are flooded at 100% when it does that | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | sometimes including turning on my n900 | 09:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Tabs are fast here. | 09:33 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: did you turn off the preview thingy? | 09:33 |
| crashanddie | it also depends on the graphics card you have | 09:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, you still not subscribed to -community. | 09:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's a unibody mbp.. w/ black keys | 09:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think it's off. | 09:33 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: right, i'm not subscribing | 09:33 |
| timeless_mbp | if there's news, and it's actually important, someone will tell me here | 09:33 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: do you see 12 previews of the most visited websites when you open a new tab? | 09:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, well, I'm pushing the bugzilla reportcard thing. | 09:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I figured you might have some input. | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | 'pushed' =? | 09:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, hell no, I turned it off. | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: right, that's the feature you disabled to make it not suck | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't change default configurations | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | either the vendor can get it right out of the box | 09:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, trying to get some movement. | 09:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | or i'm justified in saying it's broken | 09:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | That sounds like a particularly brutal form of self-flagellation. | 09:35 |
| timeless_mbp | "there's a gadgetcontrolhead behind the kitchen sink, just turn it 3.61 revolutions counter-anti-clockwise" | 09:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/57839 | 09:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some marginally interesting stats there. | 09:36 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: it means when i need to talk a newbie through something i can just open safari and suffer with them | 09:36 |
| timeless_mbp | is other stuff like moved/duplicate? | 09:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | as a note, the browser will *always* have more bugs than everything else | 09:36 |
| timeless_mbp | it's just the way the world is | 09:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | (Fixed / (Total - DUPLICATE) | 09:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, anything that isn't FIXED. | 09:37 |
| timeless_mbp | ^ parentheses failure | 09:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, actually, Modest has more bugs than you. | 09:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, yeah, noticed that after I hit send. | 09:37 |
| timeless_mbp | well, that's a bug! :) | 09:37 |
| timeless_mbp | the browser _should_ always have more bugs than everything else | 09:38 |
| timeless_mbp | if something actually has more bugs than the browser, it's seriously broken :) | 09:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, in this case, it may actually be because the email client sucks more than the browser. :S | 09:38 |
| timeless_mbp | because the browser contains the world, and will get reports about broken web sites | 09:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | See: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8456 | 09:38 |
| povbot` | Bug 8456: web closes | 09:38 |
| timeless_mbp | .... | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | thank you for your useless bug report, please install crash-reporter and don't file a bug | 09:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's early on a Sunday morning, I'm being an insomniac and I've already triaged nearly 100 bugs this week. | 09:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody else can deal with that one. :P | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't have the tolerance required to politely tell that reporter that he forgot to fill in the template | 09:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and that there's no way his bug could possibly be helpful | 09:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's why Andre made those purty templates. | 09:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | (which I'm tempted to revise to sound slightly less non-native) | 09:40 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 09:41 |
| * timeless_mbp attacks bugzilla | 09:41 | |
| RST38h | General: By the way, how often do you reboot your n900? | 09:42 |
| timeless_mbp | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/report.cgi?x_axis_field=resolution&y_axis_field=classification&query_format=report-table&&format=table&action=wrap | 09:42 |
| timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/report.cgi?x_axis_field=resolution&y_axis_field=classification&query_format=report-table&&format=table&action=wrap | 09:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | just a simple chart to try :) | 09:43 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 09:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, only when actively testing something. | 09:43 |
| timeless_mbp | bugs.maemo.org doesn't seem to support charting with pictures | 09:43 |
| * timeless_mbp should file a bug | 09:43 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm at 9 days or so uptime right now. | 09:43 |
| RST38h | General: And that is how often? Daily? Weekly? | 09:43 |
| RST38h | Ok | 09:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, last round was for the Ovi Store themes. | 09:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, almost never for any other reason than testing something specific, though. | 09:43 |
| RST38h | General: I believe you should have some movie there? Could you go into Media Player, play the movie and check how sluggish it is? | 09:43 |
| timeless_mbp | how many were there? | 09:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, how many what? | 09:44 |
| RST38h | General: See if playback stutters every now and then, how long it takes to bring up the UI overlay (with Play/Pause etc) | 09:44 |
| timeless_mbp | themes@ovi | 09:44 |
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| spectre- | anyone using fmms yet? | 09:44 |
| RST38h | General: See if you can actually stop the video and what happens when you restart it | 09:44 |
| LuciusMare | i have a small python library, with functions that i use in my scripts, does it make sense to upload it to the repos? | 09:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, um, lots of "themes" that were mostly just weird (and disturbingly sexist) desktops and color schemes. | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | 'sexist'? | 09:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, only one or two that actually merited being called a "theme" | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | scantily clad? | 09:45 |
| MistaED | pupnik, bfree: solution! restart the scratchbox daemon | 09:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, the Oz Girlz and such. | 09:45 |
| spectre- | i like sexist themes ;o | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | do i need to turn on private browsing before i google that? | 09:46 |
| MistaED | i guess when ubuntu boots the scratchbox starts in an incomplete state and doesn't map to qemu properly? | 09:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, you can't easily get to the N900 Ovi catalog on your desktop browser. | 09:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | At least, I don't have the secret recipe to do so handy. | 09:46 |
| MistaED | win! openal-soft for fremantle *tests* | 09:46 |
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| MistaED | cd .. | 09:46 |
| MistaED | you didn't see that | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i was just trying to figure out how unsafe googling 'oz girlz' was | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | it was a fairly strange mix of hits, but not particularly harmful (search:moderate) | 09:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, about 15 seconds of stuttering and slowness then fine. | 09:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, pretty standard "web sourced" copy of Burn Notice. | 09:47 |
| RST38h | General: And that is it? No slowness or delays bringing up UI? | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: anyway... | 09:48 |
| RST38h | General: No situation where you touch the screen, it hangs for a few seconds, then makes a long series of clicks? | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | the @bugzilla.mozilla.org chart i listed earlier | 09:48 |
| orangey | Addison: ping | 09:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, not that I noticed. | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | the duplicate / worksforme+incomplete+expired numbers are going to be fairly typical vs. the fixed numbers i think | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | client software is things like 'Firefox', Components includes 'Core' (which in theory should have slightly better bug filers) | 09:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, UPnP playback doesn't show video. | 09:49 |
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| RST38h | General: Yea, but this one is known | 09:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: personally, i'd suggest (lossy) truncating to 0 decimal places for percentages of products that have <100 bugs in a given category | 09:51 |
| RST38h | General: Mine is getting really sluggish at ~6-7 days of uptime | 09:52 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly that means that HAM should show '62%' and '32%' instead of '62.8%' and '32.8%' | 09:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, weird. | 09:52 |
| RST38h | General: Checked everything, nothing seems to be out of line right now | 09:52 |
| timeless_mbp | heck | 09:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I was going that way originally, but changed it later 'cause I assumed some people might react badly. ;) | 09:52 |
| timeless_mbp | let them | 09:52 |
| timeless_mbp | just make a note "cropping to 0 decimal places because you don't have enough bugs" | 09:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Need to get sjgadsby's script's. | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, let's be fair and use 0 decimals eveywhere | 09:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | also, i'd rather 'Resolution rate: 58%' | 09:55 |
| timeless_mbp | with the ':' and with '%' at the end of the line | 09:55 |
| * RST38h scans through the "future of this community" tmo thread in mild amazement | 09:57 | |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: first mistake was somewhere near 'tmo' | 09:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I should probably drop moreinfo reports from the "positive" rate calculation. | 09:58 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 09:58 |
| RST38h | all these "positive" people... it is like aliens have landed | 09:58 |
| RST38h | and they are all wearing Barney suits | 09:58 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: wait, people have something good to think, say, or believe about maemo? | 09:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:s4BHpa9yn7TF4M:http://www.sexyinfluences.com/compare/imageCache.php%3Fsrc%3Dhttp://www.scavengeinc.com%252Fimages%252Frubies%252Fbarney-rubble-costume.jpg ? | 10:00 |
| orangey | Addison: ping? | 10:00 |
| timeless_mbp | does it date me that my image of a barney suit includes that and a silver lunch pail? | 10:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, get with the times. | 10:00 |
| RST38h | well it's more like "let us all hold hands and sing together" | 10:01 |
| * timeless_mbp can't find a picture of "The Daily Slab" | 10:01 | |
| RST38h | which naturally goes into "let us lynch whoever is not holding hands and not singing" | 10:02 |
| RST38h | Why does #1 always lead to #2 in humans? Amusing. | 10:02 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541750 | 10:04 |
| povbot` | Bug 541750: was not found. | 10:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | (Andre has new canned answers) | 10:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I feel like I would've been more entertained if he had formatted that like a telegram. | 10:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 10:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure we have those | 10:05 |
| timeless_mbp | do i search for 'stop'? | 10:05 |
| * timeless_mbp tries to remember the other keywords | 10:05 | |
| timeless_mbp | sadly our qa tries too hard | 10:06 |
| timeless_mbp | > The platform comprises the Maemo operating system and the Maemo SDK. | 10:11 |
| timeless_mbp | does that mean something in English? | 10:11 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders if 'comprises' is en-GB | 10:12 | |
| spectre- | comprises is en | 10:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Source? | 10:12 |
| spectre- | us/gb | 10:12 |
| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo | 10:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sounds vaguely like something I wrote. | 10:12 |
| timeless_mbp | second "paragraph" :) | 10:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't do Wikipedia anymore. | 10:13 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 10:13 |
| timeless_mbp | i try to avoid wikis <period> | 10:13 |
| timeless_mbp | but sometimes i transgress | 10:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | After they started their vendetta against small-scale software articles I stopped contributing. | 10:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've had nothing but bad experiences with their core "contributors" and administrators | 10:14 |
| timeless_mbp | spectre-: i'm not claiming the word doesn't exist | 10:14 |
| timeless_mbp | just that it's rarely used in en-US | 10:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | They deleted several articles that I spent a lot of time on because they were "geek stupidity" | 10:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, no more contributors from me. | 10:15 |
| timeless_mbp | "is comprised of" 87 million | 10:15 |
| timeless_mbp | "comprises" 47.6 million | 10:15 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: passive form of comprise is usually informal and wrong | 10:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_phrase_%27is_comprised_of%27_acceptable | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | is amusing | 10:16 |
| rkirti | ls | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | . .. | 10:17 |
| rkirti | oops wrong buffer | 10:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | interesting | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | so officially it's correct | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | but it lost | 10:18 |
| timeless_mbp | and my parser follows the winning side | 10:18 |
| * timeless_mbp thanks wiki.answers.com | 10:18 | |
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| * GeneralAntilles really hates these California oranges. | 10:20 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.englishforums.com/English/IsComprisedOf/zkghr/post.htm " Grammar Geek +Quick Reply 468743 Fri, 25 Jan 08 01:59 PM " | 10:20 |
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| spectre- | timeless_mbp: i use it once in a while myself | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | interesting | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | is that once in a blue moon while (2 years)? | 10:28 |
| spectre- | nah | 10:28 |
| spectre- | i probably see it once a month or more | 10:29 |
| spectre- | it's common in business lingo | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | wow | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 10:29 |
| spectre- | at least where i am | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | business lingo | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i claim that's special | 10:29 |
| spectre- | :p | 10:29 |
| spectre- | brb | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | it doesn't surprise me to hear that it's still used correctly there, that actually makes sense | 10:29 |
| spectre- | rebooting | 10:29 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: the script is kinda generating a lot of data in debug mode :P | 10:36 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: I'm up to around 600K per call when in full debug mode :D | 10:36 |
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| lcuk_ | timeless, you just missed bluemoon, it was dec 31st 2009 lol | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, i know | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | and i didn't miss it | 10:46 |
| lcuk_ | :D | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i was in England for it :) | 10:46 |
| lcuk_ | cool stuff | 10:46 |
| lcuk_ | mornin crashanddie | 10:47 |
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| lcuk_ | where in uk were you timeless | 10:47 |
| crashanddie | lcuk_: hey bru | 10:47 |
| timeless_mbp | at that time? cambridge | 10:47 |
| crashanddie | did you find nice girls? | 10:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | i met two interesting ones | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | one was married (lucky guy) | 10:48 |
| lcuk_ | lol seb | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | the other well... | 10:48 |
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| LuciusMare | i may report a bug, adblock plus does not work - in settings, there are no filters and i cant even add one | 10:50 |
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| DantonicN900 | hi | 10:50 |
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| lcuk_ | hiya DantonicN900 | 10:50 |
| timeless_mbp | LuciusMare: well um | 10:51 |
| DantonicN900 | hey lcuk what are you up to? | 10:51 |
| lcuk_ | LuciusMare, go for it if you think it will help, its even better if you can find a solution too | 10:51 |
| lcuk_ | i just woke up | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | LuciusMare: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/12/ | 10:51 |
| DantonicN900 | ah good morning? | 10:51 |
| timeless_mbp | shows how it should work | 10:51 |
| lcuk_ | and realised my network graffiti wall looks wicked | 10:51 |
| DantonicN900 | :) | 10:51 |
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| aSIMULAtor | hi | 10:52 |
| LuciusMare | network graffiti wall? | 10:52 |
| lcuk_ | aSIMULAtor, :D:D:D:D | 10:52 |
| aSIMULAtor | lcuk! | 10:52 |
| aSIMULAtor | back from holiday | 10:52 |
| timeless_mbp | LuciusMare: can you load chrome://adblockplus/content/ui/tip_subscriptions.xul ? | 10:52 |
| lcuk_ | same here! | 10:52 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtor: we've missed you | 10:52 |
| DantonicN900 | hey could anyone point me... what directory are app icons located in? | 10:52 |
| aSIMULAtor | aww i've missed you guys too :P | 10:52 |
| aSIMULAtor | though actually not really i enjoyed my holiday very much | 10:52 |
| lcuk_ | you are tanned, i am shivering | 10:53 |
| aSIMULAtor | yeah i'm totally dark | 10:53 |
| aSIMULAtor | www.flickr.com/photos/asimulator | 10:53 |
| aSIMULAtor | tons of photos | 10:53 |
| LuciusMare | dear god | 10:54 |
| lcuk_ | LuciusMare, if you have seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjDEvXueO0I its the same sort of graffiti wall as that, but it works across all the machines on my wifi | 10:54 |
| lcuk_ | with little headshots in the corner showing who has drawn it | 10:54 |
| LuciusMare | timeless_mbp: well no, it says "couldnt find file file:///home/user/.mozilla/microb/extensions/{d10d0bf8-f5b5-c8b4-a8b2-2b9879e08c5d}/chrome/adblockplus.jar!/content/ui/tip_subscriptions.xul." | 10:54 |
| lcuk_ | its all live updating as everyone draws | 10:54 |
| LuciusMare | lcuk_: that is nice | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | LuciusMare: hrm | 10:55 |
| timeless_mbp | i wonder which person packaged the adblock plus you got | 10:55 |
| * LuciusMare does not know | 10:55 | |
| LuciusMare | i just installed the version in repos | 10:55 |
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| lcuk_ | LuciusMare, my favorite part is what it will allow :) | 10:56 |
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| * lcuk_ likes network undo | 10:57 | |
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| * lcuk is officially jealous of aSIMULAtor | 10:59 | |
| DantonicN900 | lcuk I think I'll install liqbase that looks pretty sweet. | 11:00 |
| DantonicN900 | you say there it tracks photos too? | 11:01 |
| lcuk | heh you can help me get it ready for others then | 11:01 |
| lcuk | tracks photos? | 11:01 |
| lcuk | on the network thing? | 11:01 |
| aSIMULAtor | ooh new changes? | 11:01 |
| DantonicN900 | uhm poor choice of word? | 11:01 |
| lcuk | aSIMULAtor, lots :) | 11:01 |
| aSIMULAtor | i'll unpack suitcases take a look | 11:01 |
| lcuk | im getting onto my stack of things | 11:01 |
| aSIMULAtor | it sucks you left the day before we left for finland :( | 11:02 |
| lcuk | no real new released things yet | 11:02 |
| lcuk | haha yeah i know | 11:02 |
| lcuk | ill b back soon enough tho | 11:02 |
| DantonicN900 | well you say something about it keeping pics or sketches in chronologicalorder? | 11:02 |
| lcuk | especially now i know i can get in and out of the building without being eaten | 11:02 |
| lcuk | yes | 11:02 |
| lcuk | i have the graffiti wall keeping everything | 11:03 |
| DantonicN900 | so how does it do that exactly? | 11:03 |
| DantonicN900 | when u take a photo it tracks it on the wall? | 11:03 |
| DantonicN900 | or you must add it? | 11:03 |
| lcuk | automatically added | 11:03 |
| DantonicN900 | ooh cool | 11:04 |
| DantonicN900 | could it also automatically add say a recording from maemo recorder? say I'm taking notes in class and recording the lecture? | 11:04 |
| DantonicN900 | :) | 11:05 |
| lcuk | DantonicN900, once i get everything organised ill be putting the graffiti wall and sketch out as standalone, ive just got a backlog im trying to clear | 11:05 |
| lcuk | recording in what way? | 11:05 |
| DantonicN900 | sound | 11:05 |
| lcuk | not tried, it was only a few days ago i first recorded any sound | 11:05 |
| DantonicN900 | or video for that matter i guess | 11:05 |
| lcuk | that would be something you would have to work on | 11:05 |
| DantonicN900 | ah | 11:06 |
| lcuk | the graffiti wall was envisioned to contain multimedia though | 11:06 |
| DantonicN900 | I wouldn't know where to start :P | 11:06 |
| lcuk | :) then its not got sound | 11:07 |
| DantonicN900 | hehe :D | 11:07 |
| lcuk | aSIMULAtor, liqflow will have the cover parts when its released :) | 11:07 |
| lcuk | the networked one must look good | 11:07 |
| lcuk | i have added a further concession to hildon! the top left now also shows the dashboard as expected | 11:08 |
| DantonicN900 | anyone know where the app icons are located? what directory? I'd like to change an icon, there's no setting for that is there? | 11:10 |
| lcuk | /usr/share/icons/....... | 11:11 |
| lcuk | /usr/share/pixmaps/..... | 11:11 |
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| DantonicN900 | oh ty | 11:12 |
| lcuk | DantonicN900, the problem is, those are not writable by user, and they will be replaced by packages | 11:12 |
| DantonicN900 | I see | 11:13 |
| lcuk | so your changes will not really be persistent, if you want to make icon themes speak with the theming people | 11:13 |
| DantonicN900 | well I just wanted to add an icon to openoffice. could i create an icon somehow? | 11:13 |
| lcuk | i think they hang in #maemo-ui but im not sure | 11:13 |
| lcuk | ahhh if its one icon for one app | 11:13 |
| lcuk | then discuss with the people who released openoffice | 11:13 |
| lcuk | and see if you can get it included in the package | 11:13 |
| lcuk | create it first and put it on tmo and see if people like it or want to make more in your style | 11:14 |
| DantonicN900 | I see well I had to create the app menu item myself... right now the package only ncludes it under the lxde environment | 11:14 |
| lcuk | who are the maintainers | 11:15 |
| DantonicN900 | qole | 11:15 |
| DantonicN900 | easy debian | 11:15 |
| lcuk | then deffo put it on tmo and send him a mail to him | 11:15 |
| lcuk | yeah, also council | 11:15 |
| lcuk | will get involved happily with community improvements | 11:15 |
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| DantonicN900 | all right, I'll give it a shot | 11:16 |
| DantonicN900 | thanks for your help lcuk | 11:16 |
| lcuk | np :) | 11:16 |
| lcuk | nice smiley website to drink morning coffee to: http://itmademyday.com/ | 11:17 |
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| lcuk | helsinki airport terminal where i left is ummmm bare | 11:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: wasn't that dailyrotten.com? | 11:18 |
| lcuk | not a lot of choice | 11:18 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, :( | 11:18 |
| lcuk | no thats not what im thinking and doesnt make people smile | 11:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: does it for me though =) | 11:19 |
| lcuk | aSIMULAtor, did you spent like 3 weeks on a tiny canoe? it looks like it with the amounts of photos | 11:20 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: helsinki has free wifi | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | HEL i mean | 11:21 |
| lcuk | timeless, i was impressed at one thing | 11:21 |
| lcuk | practically at my gate there was a smoking hut | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | that so doesn't impress me | 11:21 |
| lcuk | the rest of the airport was fail | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. germany has that | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. i hate those things | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | there aren't many of those fwiw | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe 3 in the entire airport? | 11:22 |
| lcuk | i know theres not many | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | (maybe 1?) | 11:22 |
| lcuk | timeless, better to have them in one place where people can find them | 11:22 |
| lcuk | than going into toilets and discovering the person in next stall is smoking | 11:23 |
| lcuk | possibly | 11:23 |
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| lcuk | but anyway timeless you as a non smoker dont need so much discussion on that | 11:24 |
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| lcuk | i was using adhoc wifi whilst there | 11:24 |
| lcuk | so i didnt need free wifi | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | adhoc wifi? | 11:24 |
| lcuk | yes | 11:24 |
| lcuk | i was coding | 11:24 |
| lcuk | and making notes | 11:24 |
| lcuk | so my devices maintained a connection amongst themselves | 11:25 |
| lcuk | aSIMULAtor, what camera did you use underwater? | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | how does one link to an immd item? | 11:27 |
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| lcuk | timeless, perma link is the bit that says "Submitted by: ....." | 11:29 |
| shinkamui | battery life seems a little better lately, I really didn't do anything with the phone, but its been running for about 15 hours mostly idle, and Im at + | 11:29 |
| lcuk | shinkamui, is that enough for your daily usage? | 11:29 |
| shinkamui | well, I don't know, the real question is moderate to heavy use | 11:30 |
| shinkamui | a few days ago this light almost non usage would leave me with an almost dead battery within 8 hours | 11:30 |
| lcuk | i am constantly surprised by improvements | 11:30 |
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| lcuk | i rarely get so little time with mine | 11:30 |
| shinkamui | so I hope this is a sign that Ill be able to use the phone like I first did when I got it | 11:30 |
| shinkamui | well, lcuk I've been keeping it to a minimum to preserve battery life | 11:31 |
| lcuk | if theres anything you run thats got specific concerns | 11:31 |
| lcuk | you can install powertop and check | 11:31 |
| shinkamui | I got powertop the other day | 11:31 |
| shinkamui | but the suspect was a broken conversations module | 11:31 |
| shinkamui | looks like one of those 4 or 5 plugin updates fixed the problem | 11:31 |
| lcuk | good! | 11:32 |
| lcuk | conversations are important :) | 11:32 |
| shinkamui | Ill know for sure monday, but Im happy to see that I had google voice and jabber running all day with minimal drain | 11:32 |
| lcuk | do you use them on wifi or 3g | 11:32 |
| lcuk | or a mix | 11:33 |
| shinkamui | 3g off (at&t | 11:33 |
| shinkamui | ) | 11:33 |
| shinkamui | I try and keep wifi always on | 11:33 |
| shinkamui | and it switches to edge when Im not in coverage | 11:33 |
| shinkamui | though Im in coverage 90% of the week | 11:33 |
| lcuk | yeah | 11:33 |
| shinkamui | the 10% is literally commute time between work and home | 11:33 |
| shinkamui | even my two favorite bars have free wifi :) | 11:34 |
| lcuk | win win! | 11:34 |
| crashanddie | this looks like one of the best independent movies ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBGeErufQdY | 11:35 |
| RST38h | "Doctors have become more inclined to prescribe marijuana as an alternative to Ritalin for children diagnosed with ADHD." | 11:35 |
| timeless_mbp | > Driving home yesterday I passed three bikers, all in black pants/tights. One was wearing a gold shirt, another a blue shirt, and the third…a red shirt. All I could think was "Poor, expendable red shirt, you’ll be dead before you cross the street." IMMD | 11:35 |
| RST38h | Eek | 11:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/20/funny-win-story-rachael/ | 11:36 |
| lcuk | haha yeah timeless :D | 11:36 |
| lcuk | glad you like the site its made me giggle a few times | 11:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, a bunch of earlier ones did too | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | but i didn't know how to cite them :) | 11:37 |
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| frals | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/22/funny-win-story-anonymouse/ ;D | 11:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/17/funny-win-story-anon-54-2/ | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/16/funny-win-story-mr-vic/ | 11:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/10/tiffany/ | 11:58 |
| * Stskeeps checks HEL weather forecast | 11:59 | |
| jaska | fire, brimstone | 11:59 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, vaguely clear, with flurries | 12:00 |
| timeless_mbp | and birds who didn't get the memo to fly south for the winter | 12:00 |
| timeless_mbp | even the birds aren't smart up here :) | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 12:01 |
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| lcuk | oh cool, the video has gone live :D:D:D http://www.n900-mobile.co.uk/ | 12:02 |
| timeless_mbp | is this site designed by people who aren't finns? | 12:02 |
| lcuk | yes | 12:03 |
| lcuk | theres a great community video showing great features :D | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | the flash movie doesn't handle being dragged well | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | you can start it mostly offscreen | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | but if you try to drag it onscreen, it pauses, and makes you hit the tiny play button to start it... | 12:03 |
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| lcuk | lol timeless i didnt realise it had panning, i clicked the natural buttons | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 12:06 |
| lcuk | thats actually what i keep wanting for many gesture related screens | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | the community video is awesome | 12:06 |
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| lcuk | timeless, indeed it is | 12:06 |
| lcuk | when i first saw it i was blown away | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | but the container tears when dragged :) | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm on my mac, not my n900 :) | 12:07 |
| lcuk | we can only fix one computer at a time | 12:07 |
| dagb | multimultitask? | 12:07 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | morning jaffa | 12:07 |
| lcuk | mornin jaffa, your spot on the dev video is up | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | dagb: it's marketing | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | ooh | 12:08 |
| lcuk | extremely good marketing :D | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | i get to take the nokia.co.uk site survey | 12:08 |
| lcuk | tracy and jake are on it too lol | 12:08 |
| lcuk | they helped code it too | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/08/blaise/ | 12:09 |
| RST38h | Hmmm...Why do people advertise multitasking as the main feature of N900? | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/07/whome/ | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | sad | 12:11 |
| RST38h | I mean, doesn't HTC have multitasking? | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: the iPhone does not | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | and HTC is a hardware vendor | 12:12 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Indeed, Anidel pointe meat it at 01:xx. Won't play on N900 and it's struggling on this Ubuntu netbook | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | you're either talking winmo or android | 12:12 |
| RST38h | Well, ALL HTCs have multitasking, Android and WinMo | 12:12 |
| RST38h | So, HTC is a sensible generalization to make | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't know many people w/ htc's | 12:12 |
| RST38h | Symbian has multitasking | 12:12 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, arg! | 12:12 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Yes, both Android and webOS have multitasking. | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and i certainly don't know many who are happy w/ them | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: symbian's multitasking is cooperative | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and doesn't really work | 12:13 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Does Crackberry multitask, or is this not even an issue there? | 12:13 |
| RST38h | Symbian's multitasking is not cooperative and it works well. | 12:13 |
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| RST38h | (and yes, I develop for Symbian, so I know) | 12:13 |
| xorAxAx | the n900 multitasking feels cooperative to me as well. too few cpu power | 12:13 |
| lardman | morning | 12:13 |
| lcuk | morning lardman! | 12:14 |
| * lcuk makes a note to set clock back to uk time | 12:14 | |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: *shrug*, i more often see apps i can't kill on symbian than elsewhere | 12:14 |
| Jaffa | xorAxAx: Cooperative can feel more responsive (since each individual app decides when it can multiask). Maemo is pre-emptive, like Linux | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe it's just some unfortunate part of the system/kernel-stack | 12:14 |
| RST38h | Anyways, aside from that really artifical iPhone limitation, I see no reason why multitasking is going to be such a selling point | 12:14 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: ok, good point :) | 12:14 |
| lcuk | RST38h, just because | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: we aren't competing w/ android | 12:15 |
| RST38h | lcuk: AFAIK, marketing people do not do stuff just because =) | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | or symbian | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | we're competing w/ the iPhone | 12:15 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: I believe BlackBerry's can run multiple apps at a time (like non-smartphones). But everyone is talking about webOS being the new multitasking wonderment | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't win anything by competing w/ last place | 12:15 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: <sigh> | 12:16 |
| Jaffa | Major misstep, IMO. Android is the real competitor and has a large headstart. Trying to go directly after the iPhone is crazy | 12:16 |
| RST38h | timeless: Then you will lose. | 12:16 |
| * lcuk shakes head | 12:16 | |
| lcuk | why are people trying to chase. we have a device that makes its own path | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: winning 10% of the time against the market leader is better than winning 60% of the time against someone with no market share | 12:17 |
| lcuk | others will follow us | 12:17 |
| lardman | lcuk: hmm, not sure that's true | 12:17 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: i just dput a new version of dwimd (0.2-1) | 12:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Oh, it is a bit different thing | 12:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yes, we have the device we are happy with the device | 12:17 |
| lcuk | we are not finished though | 12:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But it has nothign to do with how many units of the device Nokia will sell to OTHER people (not us) | 12:17 |
| RST38h | timeless: losing is still losing | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/06/jolie/ | 12:18 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 12:18 | |
| RST38h | and you are not gonna win against iPhone. | 12:18 |
| Jaffa | lardman: All of my colleagues who are interested in next-gen mobiles are going for Android devices (with a few going for iPhones "because they just work"). They've played with my N900 but don't feel it offers them any major advantages and, as a niche player, nothing but disadvantages :-/ | 12:18 |
| RST38h | Because it is a freaking religion. No amount of Finns can create a religion: they are too down-to-earth for that | 12:19 |
| lcuk | there are more people in the world than the iphone market | 12:19 |
| lardman | Jaffa: I quite agree | 12:19 |
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| lardman | Jaffa: My wife has an android phone (in preference to an N900 I hasten to add) and it does look and work quite well, plus it's well integrated | 12:19 |
| Jaffa | lardman: I read "lcuk: hmm, not sure thats true" as "Jaffa: ..." ;-) | 12:19 |
| lardman | np :) | 12:20 |
| * RST38h finds unified messaging to be the only really distinguishing feature of N900 vs other devices, as far as the regular sheep are concerned | 12:20 | |
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| TomaszD | alright | 12:20 |
| TomaszD | which one of you guys ported Android | 12:20 |
| RST38h | Strongly tie that to email (hello, Modest) and the calendar, and you have got a strong offer to make | 12:20 |
| lardman | calendar is poor | 12:20 |
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| RST38h | "We have multitasking" or "we have native apps" just ain't going to cut it | 12:21 |
| lardman | needs some serious improvements imho | 12:21 |
| lardman | RST38h: indeed, users don't care about the underlying stuff unless it stops them doing something | 12:21 |
| RST38h | lardman: Well, I actually know the guy who maintains Papyrus on S60 | 12:21 |
| Jaffa | lardman: I was looking for the "Repeat monthly by day" rather than "Repeat monthly by date" yesterday. Wish it was EPOC Agenda :( | 12:21 |
| lardman | what's that? A calendar app? | 12:21 |
| RST38h | lardman: Yea | 12:22 |
| RST38h | lardman: Good enough to make people pay for it en masse | 12:22 |
| lardman | Jaffa: indeed, EPOC is now 15years old or so and still we lack useful features | 12:22 |
| RST38h | lardman: So, if needed, I can probably talk him into sending a cv | 12:22 |
| lardman | RST38h: well good enough doesn't necessarily need to be much as long as it's better and people can't easily program of course ;) | 12:22 |
| lardman | though it may be great, I've no idea | 12:22 |
| lcuk | you guys need to talk with the devs and hammer out proper desired features | 12:22 |
| lardman | lcuk: not in bloody brainstorm | 12:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Hehe, have you tried? ;) | 12:23 |
| lcuk | agreed | 12:23 |
| lcuk | RST38h :) | 12:23 |
| lardman | but yes, I'd be quite happy to do that, and I thought that enhancement request were the way to do this | 12:23 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: I mean, it took YEARS to make it switch freaking physical keyboard layout on Ctrl+Space | 12:23 |
| LuciusMare | no at daemon for maemo? | 12:23 |
| lcuk | yeah they probably are | 12:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And you intend to go to developers and ask for features? :) | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2010/01/03/jen-2/ | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | oh my | 12:24 |
| lcuk | but having a realtime meeting makes things better | 12:24 |
| RST38h | lardman: Enhancement request on bmo == will never be done | 12:24 |
| lardman | lcuk: There are some things that are just half features, e.g. the geolocation stuff, not saving lat/lon, that's very odd imo as it could make some cool apps | 12:24 |
| lardman | RST38h: yeah :( | 12:24 |
| RST38h | lardman: Pretty much the only thing that works is meeting actual developers face to face and making a point | 12:24 |
| lardman | lcuk: other things like the calendar, I do wonder if any of the devs actually use the calendar, if they did they would notice the missing features | 12:24 |
| lcuk | lardman, theres things for all apps where you guys have strong solid simple improvements ive heard about | 12:25 |
| RST38h | lardman: But this, of course, is not going to happen most of the time | 12:25 |
| lcuk | not always lardman | 12:25 |
| lcuk | people use their own subset of features | 12:25 |
| lcuk | and so one may not notice | 12:25 |
| RST38h | lardman: Well, missing calendar features are funny. I, for example, do not see any missing :) | 12:25 |
| ifreq | good morning | 12:25 |
| lcuk | it takes negotiation and discussion with others | 12:25 |
| lcuk | to get an overall viewpoint | 12:25 |
| lardman | lcuk: focus groups then, or just send them a Psion 5 to use in the office | 12:25 |
| RST38h | lardman: Probably because everyone has his own uses for calendar | 12:25 |
| lardman | yeah | 12:25 |
| xorAxAx | do you know datebk5? | 12:26 |
| RST38h | lardman,lcuk: Folks, you are missing an important detail | 12:26 |
| lardman | but birthday integration but no ages seems silly, no non-birthday anniversaries, etc. | 12:26 |
| xorAxAx | every calendar with fewer features has "missing features" :) | 12:26 |
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| RST38h | lardman,lcuk: Bugzilla, Brainstorm, focus groups, meeting developers, discussion, community, it is all very nice | 12:26 |
| lcuk | i am happy with my wall calendar | 12:26 |
| lardman | if it's read of course | 12:26 |
| xorAxAx | for the perfect calendar, you simply need to clone datebk5 | 12:26 |
| RST38h | lardman,lcuk: But at the end, there is a guy who leads a particular team, let us say Calendar | 12:26 |
| RST38h | lardman,lcuk: It is an actual guy. He is usually not a developer, and he thinks in terms of people to be allocated and time to completion | 12:27 |
| RST38h | lardman,lcuk: He DOES NOT read your Brainstorm/Bugzilla/etc. So he has no idea what features you are talking about there. And when he finds out, the standard response is "Very nice idea, maybe we will do something like that when we have time, which is never" | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: you're assuming this guy exists | 12:28 |
| lcuk | of course RST38h, and it is also his job to listen and use his knowledge of his team and skillset to choose the most optimal featureset | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i question that fact in the case of calendar | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i certainly have not met him | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: well, quim did say somewhere that he got managers to commit to brainstorm | 12:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No, it is not his job | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | so that may manifest | 12:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: His job is to insure timely completion of tasks he has committed to | 12:29 |
| RST38h | lcuk: THAT is what his performance is measured by | 12:29 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles @ RST38h for nick highlighting | 12:29 | |
| timeless_mbp | actually, it isn't | 12:29 |
| lcuk | yes, and the items he has chosen to commit to were done how.. | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | his performance is measured by things which make no sense :) | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | timely completion of tasks he commits to is generally *not* a criteria used :) | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | we generally lose points when the org collectively misses a deadline | 12:30 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Usually by discussing it with his superiors who discussed it with marketing | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | because that way the company gives out less money :) | 12:30 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But you, as a user, is not involved there | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: =~ s/is/are/ | 12:30 |
| * RST38h will actually object to that | 12:31 | |
| RST38h | But anyways | 12:31 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: So, the most realistic solution (for Calendar at least) is to say "fuck it all" and do your own calendar. Then you get to add whatever features you like and either listen to other people or piss on them, as you see fit | 12:32 |
| RST38h | lcuk: (there is a ery appropriate scene in Kindzadza about it, if you ever watched that movie) | 12:32 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Other solutions involve befriending the Calendar manager *or* his manager | 12:33 |
| LuciusMare | oh, and to my adblock plus problem - yes, i can load the "add foreign set of rules" but nothing else, i cant even click the radio button | 12:33 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But if you do so, and privately suggest feature(s), make sure you take time to completion into account | 12:33 |
| lardman | Well calendar looks like it was written in 30min or so | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: doesn't it usually work same way in open source projects in general? :P | 12:33 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Of course :) | 12:33 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, that doesnt sound like an unrealistic goal :) especially since many of the teams are already around >>> | 12:34 |
| lardman | so I guess the best thing is to just write a replacement, but there are only so many days in a weekend, and most of those are taken up cursing maemo repos for being down ;) | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, people considering to boot webos | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder how unfeasible it is | 12:34 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: The movie scene involved buying a desert planet, buying some air, then pissing at whatever settlers come to populate it =) | 12:34 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Out of sheer ego, I guess | 12:34 |
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| Stskeeps | i really should try to boot maemo, mer, os2008 on my n900. | 12:35 |
| lardman | I agree with the brainstorm, etc., not being read - e.g. the integration of location in calendar, maps, etc., really cool idea, but even I can't be bothered to read the entire TMO thread | 12:35 |
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| * LuciusMare checks his outgoing connection | 12:35 | |
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| RST38h | lardman: tmo threads are useless because 90% of posters have no clue now | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: you could right the calendar replacement *instead* of paying attention to the repositories! | 12:35 |
| RST38h | lardman: and the remaining 10% hae become too bitter =) | 12:35 |
| lardman | Perhaps a filtered wiki page of enhancements would be a better place to point people, i.e. with justifications, etc., like we did for the opening components page | 12:36 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: I need to be able to download the calendar backend, as it should use the same data, and I'm hacking on mbarcode-qt atm | 12:36 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: but yes | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: use jebba1 's repos | 12:36 |
| lcuk | lardman, you mean! someone to boil down discussion pages into a cohesive proposal? :D | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | they're almost certainly alive | 12:36 |
| LuciusMare | hello? | 12:37 |
| lcuk | like what happened with drivers as you say, and the mms stuff? :D | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | LuciusMare: yes, we hear you, just ignored ;p | 12:37 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: would be easier if the source were available of course, would save some work and then just features could be added; but the ui adds value, etc., etc. | 12:37 |
| lardman | lcuk: indeed | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: you don't want the source, trust me :) | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | you never want the source for nokia ui | 12:37 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: lol | 12:37 |
| lcuk | lardman, that makes me grin from ear to ear | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: with opening components i plan to suggest using miniprojects to illustrate there will be community projects taking on the task of doign X,Y,Z if something got opened | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | will have a bunch of discussions over the next days hopefully | 12:38 |
| lardman | lcuk: I think that would be a useful community contribution to filter the ideas and write compelling business cases for the addition of various features, etc | 12:38 |
| RST38h | lardman: Who is gonna read and act on it though? | 12:38 |
| koala_man | how can I delete all the radio bookmarks? | 12:39 |
| lardman | RST38h: quite, but I hope the Nokians could be persuaded to look at a set of well written proposals | 12:39 |
| lcuk | yeah i was saying this last week, it needs someone comfortable with editing and documentation to talk with the related party | 12:39 |
| lcuk | hey - didnt dneary just interview jermeiah and do the same for packaging | 12:39 |
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| lcuk | and presented it really nicely | 12:39 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: what sort of thing would make up a microproject? | 12:40 |
| * RST38h suddenly got a cruel idea =) | 12:40 | |
| lardman | sorry s/micro/mini | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: saw my post? | 12:40 |
| lardman | where? | 12:40 |
| RST38h | lardman: How about a popularity rating of Maemo employees? ;) | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 12:40 |
| lardman | ml? | 12:40 |
| RST38h | lardman: Updated weekly on maemo.org =) | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41092\ | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41092 | 12:40 |
| lardman | RST38h: no, that's not going to encourage anything useful, though GeneralAntilles's idea of posting how many bugs are posted against a given component and how many are closed positively is interesting | 12:41 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: reading now | 12:41 |
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| lcuk | link to dneary and jeremiahs discussion http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/57816 | 12:42 |
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| RST38h | lardman: whcich probably does not reflect much either =( | 12:45 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: sounds good | 12:46 |
| lardman | only problem I see is that atm is will really only work for community projects, which is fine, and not for changes to the underlying UI stuff (unless write a new calendar is a project I suppose) | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | right, but it also means we can set up pipelines for opening stuff, like, exploring if something could be opened and then having projects that launches after the opening | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | by showing that open sourcing something won't just be gathering dust :P | 12:49 |
| lardman | ok | 12:49 |
| RST38h | Do you already have people interested in writing a new Calendar *and* having computer programming experience? | 12:49 |
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| lardman | if nothing else it would probably serve to link up developers who have a skill and projects that need one in the way that the Garage "need a hand"-style page hasn't done | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 12:50 |
| lardman | RST38h: no idea | 12:50 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i would prefer not to write a whole new calendar, but there is now a few viable options | 12:50 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, i like your proposal | 12:50 |
| lcuk | you know from my side how well it would fit | 12:51 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Writing a calendar is not that hard really | 12:51 |
| lcuk | no, writing one that has every feature wanted is. | 12:51 |
| lcuk | and takes a team effort | 12:51 |
| RST38h | The hard part is how to make it extensible enough | 12:51 |
| lcuk | and theres a really good base calendar already there | 12:52 |
| RST38h | For example, Maemo5 Address Book is rather decent in that sense | 12:52 |
| lcuk | so for now, please drop the talk of completely replacing it | 12:52 |
| RST38h | lcuk: For which you have no sources. | 12:52 |
| lardman | well the backend libs for the address book and calendar are available aren't they, so the ui is really the only thing that needs to be done | 12:52 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And even if you get sources, I am not sure at all that anyone will be willing to work on them | 12:52 |
| lardman | lcuk: just talking about replacing the ui as that's closed | 12:53 |
| RST38h | lardman: Actually, two UIs, GTK+ for Maemo5, Qt for Maemo6 | 12:53 |
| lcuk | why not consider qt for maemo5 | 12:53 |
| lcuk | and save the effort later | 12:53 |
| RST38h | slow startup, problems with input | 12:53 |
| lardman | you never know, all these things might be fixed in harmattan, but we just don't know...... | 12:54 |
| RST38h | + the upcoming Maemo6 Qt-based framework has nothing to do with Qt as it is | 12:54 |
| RST38h | They seem to be replicating Symbian/S60 in maemo6 | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Betting on "not fixed in the next version" is always a good idea with Maemo =) | 12:55 |
| LuciusMare | oh, and to my adblock plus problem - yes, i can load the "add foreign set of rules" but nothing else, i cant even click the radio button - also, in microb i also often cant click links | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: i'd hope most nokians while stupid wouldn't be stupid enough to get their names listed | 12:55 |
| RST38h | Some no longer have a choice =) | 12:56 |
| timeless_mbp | LuciusMare: are you using a stylus, your finger nail, or your finger tip? | 12:56 |
| LuciusMare | neither of these work | 12:56 |
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| * lardman experiences severe pain porting from pthreads to QThread | 13:03 | |
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| lcuk | lardman, :( | 13:04 |
| lcuk | i recently put my first mutex in liqbase | 13:04 |
| lcuk | because of a race condition crashing things | 13:05 |
| lardman | I don't need mutexes thankfully | 13:05 |
| lardman | yeah, don't all shout at me at once, but I really don't....... ;) | 13:05 |
| lcuk | good! | 13:05 |
| lcuk | it was an ugly problem for me, i had to use gdb for the first time to identify it | 13:05 |
| lardman | oh, turn out I do, forgot I had one in there | 13:06 |
| lardman | oh well :) | 13:06 |
| lcuk | lol | 13:06 |
| lcuk | i still wonder how i can gdb x11 (and hence the xvideo i need to check) | 13:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: sshd is your friend | 13:07 |
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| lcuk | timeless, you would have to break it down much more for me to know how to do it | 13:07 |
| lcuk | i know i can once the system is booted | 13:08 |
| lcuk | but x11 is already running | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | sure | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | gdb -p {pidofx11} | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | or gdbserver ... | 13:08 |
| lcuk | oh, i can jump into any process? :D wow cool | 13:08 |
| lcuk | thanks, ill have a go | 13:09 |
| RST38h | lardman: It is probably a stupid question but why use qtthreads? | 13:09 |
| RST38h | lardman: Pthreads are way more generic and do not depend on having qt | 13:10 |
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| Trizt | how do you list all packages installed which do not have another package depending on them? it seems like I may have a bunch of such packages now installed after installing/uninstalling apps | 13:11 |
| lardman | RST38h: prefer to make it all nice and clean | 13:12 |
| lardman | RST38h: the thread code is trivial actually, just need to learn how to use Qt | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: apt-get has a cleanup command | 13:14 |
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| jon1012 | someone good in python bindings package could point me to good docs about it ? | 13:16 |
| jon1012 | I want to try packaging the libchamplain python bindings | 13:17 |
| jon1012 | (and I never did any deb packaging work in my life :)) | 13:17 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; I didn't see any option that cleans out unwanted packages | 13:17 |
| timeless_mbp | apt-get autoremove ? | 13:18 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; it allows me to pick what to remove? | 13:18 |
| timeless_mbp | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=996053 | 13:18 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly there should be no reason for you to care about what autoremove does | 13:19 |
| timeless_mbp | if it hurts something, you're doing something wrong | 13:19 |
| Trizt | you never can trust deiban stuff | 13:20 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 13:21 |
| alterego | debian has very strict package management practises. | 13:23 |
| Trizt | anything else for cleaning? after uninstall there is less space free on / | 13:23 |
| alterego | why do you think it takes so long for new releases... | 13:23 |
| * Robot101 taja | 13:23 | |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: the root file system is garbage collected | 13:23 |
| * Robot101 can't use his IRC client | 13:23 | |
| Trizt | alterego; for they have to backport everything to the old packages they use | 13:23 |
| timeless_mbp | and if an app is running it can have a file handle to a "deleted" file | 13:24 |
| timeless_mbp | you have to reboot to find out how much space you actually got | 13:24 |
| timeless_mbp | (or kill all your apps, which is basically the same thing, might as well reboot) | 13:24 |
| Trizt | it's quite bad that the n900 needs so much reboots, feels like windows mobile | 13:24 |
| alterego | i don't know what you're t!king about Trizt | 13:24 |
| alterego | O_o | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: well... | 13:25 |
| alterego | I've rebooted onw. | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | this isn't specific to Maemo | 13:25 |
| alterego | once .. | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a standard Unix thing | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine you're standing on a bridge | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | and you're helping build a replacement bridge right next to the one you stand on | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | you've finished rerouting traffic to the new bridge | 13:25 |
| Trizt | I don't rebuild the bridge from scratch if I repaint it | 13:25 |
| sp3000 | this is starting to sound like lemmings | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but you're standing on the old bridge | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | do you want the bridge you're standing on to disappear? | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | you're still standing on it | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | if it disappears, you're going to get wet | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | so... as to repainting | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | the problem with that is.. | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | computer programs don't deal well with inconsistencies | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | so what they do when they repaint a bridge | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | is they take a copy of the bridge shell, paint that in the new color | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | and move the old bridge shell out of the way to be replaced by the newly painted one | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | now, if no one is LOOKING at the old bridge shell | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it disappears | 13:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | but if someone was looking at it, they see the old color until they stop | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a heisenburg principle | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | once the color of the bridge is observed, it can't change | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | not for that observer | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | think about it differently | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | your bridge has a 7' clearance | 13:28 |
| alterego | does anyone else think the Ntes application has suffered from the same issue with bulletted lists siince maemo 3 | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | you build a replacement bridge with a 6'9" clearance | 13:29 |
| alterego | notes | 13:29 |
| Trizt | so you mean that every app you run will stay in memory and lock files until you reboot | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | a truck checks the clearance of the bridge, finds it's 7', and starts driving along it | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | no, until the app quits | 13:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | and only the files it's using | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, if the truck gets halfway across the bridge | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | and you change the clearance on the bridge it's using, your truck will be very unhappy | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | so, the truck gets to use the bridge it started with, until it finishes | 13:30 |
| timeless_mbp | but new vehicles get your new bridge w/ its new clearance | 13:30 |
| Trizt | if you turned off the truck and destroyed it, then it should not take space in the reality anymore, but it seems like your truck does | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | if *all* apps that were using the old bridge stop using the old bridge | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | then the old bridge /can/ go away | 13:31 |
| timeless_mbp | there are quite a few apps, and it's quite likely one of the very long running apps is using the old bridge | 13:31 |
| Luser | Trizt, it's explained here http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-lsof.html | 13:31 |
| alterego | heh | 13:32 |
| Luser | When a process opens a file, it exists on disk even if deleted, as long as the process holds the file open. This means that the process doesn't know the file has been deleted; it can still read and write to the file descriptor it was granted when the file was opened. If you're not that process, the file is invisible because the directory entries have been removed. | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i'm in the credits for lsof :) | 13:32 |
| alterego | i like ibm | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | (and again for the latest version) | 13:32 |
| Luser | ibm has real good explanations for unix | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | Luser: =~ s/ for unix/./ | 13:32 |
| Trizt | but the truck is the app, not the bridge (shell) and the bridge disappears with the truck | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | bridge is a file on disk | 13:33 |
| Luser | timeless_mbp, probably.. | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | the 'shell' was meant that the bridge is really a bunch of distinct files | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't necessarily copy the entire bridge which might be collectively huge, just the one you changed | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | your first instance changed the color of the bridge | 13:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | but it's relatively hard to explain how that's a problem | 13:33 |
| timeless_mbp | except for a bird that gets confused | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | it's easier to change the clearance of the bridge with a truck to demonstrate how a crash would happen if the bridge parameters actually changed dynamically | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | in our example, there was only one thing on the bridge at a time, first you on the old bridge, later the truck | 13:35 |
| timeless_mbp | in reality, there are... someone fill in the number for me? | 13:35 |
| timeless_mbp | >125 processes | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | potentially all of them are on the old bridge | 13:36 |
| RST38h | moo wazd | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | it depends what the bridge is... some things are used by more processes than others | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | for some fun examples of this | 13:36 |
| timeless_mbp | i had a package which replaced the active localization for the entire system | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | when i did this *wrong* | 13:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | running apps would crash or show very very funny things | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | there's even a bug in bugs.maemo.org about it | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | because i was essentially changing the bridge height | 13:37 |
| red | seen the video of Android running on N900? :P | 13:37 |
| timeless_mbp | (and moving the lanes around and changing the position of the medians, etc. | 13:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | in my current version of the installer, when i change those files, in addition to being sure not to *rewrite the internal contents* | 13:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | i actively shoot processes that I don't like | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | because i know they'll be resurrected and then use my updated files | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | (actually, i'd used that tactic for a while against the 'clock' app, but i recently applied it to hildon-*) | 13:39 |
| wazd | heya all | 13:39 |
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| Trizt | timeless_mbp; I would like to repaint the bridge, in the calendar you can pick a limited amount of colors for task types, but all those colors are so damn similar to eachother, that I would want to have colors that are less similar, you know where to set the color for them? | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | open calendar | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | tap the title area | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | tap the bottom right menu item | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | for me it's "options" because i'm using my own localization | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | tap the first item | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | for me it's "Manage Calendars" (i need to fix this, but again, because it's my localization) | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | tap the calendar whose color bothers you | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | tap "Color" | 13:43 |
| Trizt | yes, but I still can't change the 8 preselected colors | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah um, well, talk to aSIMULAtor | 13:44 |
| Trizt | there is 3 different pinks | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i seem to recall complaining to her about this um... 6 months ago? | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | she should at least remember me complaining :) | 13:44 |
| alterego | heh | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: if it's really important i can vpn into work and try to figure out a way to get what you want | 13:44 |
| * Trizt has 4 different task groups and now can't add more, as the colour would be too similar to an already used ont | 13:45 | |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: but you might start by trying to suggest better colors | 13:45 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; what about using the default ANSII colors | 13:45 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 13:45 | |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think ansi has 2 i's | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/hodhelp/v9r0/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.hod9.doc/help/vt_ansicolor.html | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | thinks you mean: Black, Red, GReen, Yellow, Blue, Pink, Turquoise, White | 13:46 |
| * Trizt nods | 13:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | do you really want black? | 13:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i claim the only one you're really missing is Red | 13:47 |
| Trizt | it depends on the background color in the calendar | 13:47 |
| timeless_mbp | and that's mostly because some idiot was big into pastels | 13:47 |
| timeless_mbp | which iirc was the focus of my original complaint | 13:47 |
| Trizt | the best had really been if you could define the colors yourself | 13:48 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 13:48 | |
| timeless_mbp | talk to aSIMULAtor / konttori_nokia | 13:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i work on the browser | 13:48 |
| Trizt | okey, by the way coping text from the browser, how do you do that? | 13:48 |
| RST38h | Trizt: /usr/share/calendar/theme/gtkrc | 13:49 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 13:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | someday i need to publish my promise | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | in middle school we were forced to sign a statement | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | "I will not cope software" | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | I have never coped software. | 13:49 |
| RST38h | Trizt: Notice how config file refers to icon files? Your colors (the ones you hate) are in those icons. Replace icons => replace colors. | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | I signed it. | 13:49 |
| sp3000 | Trizt, http://maemo.nokia.com/features/maemo-browser/gestures/ | 13:49 |
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| RST38h | Trizt: This is all you need to do. No attempts to persuade Nokians required | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: sorry, the browser features are supposed to be reachable from the welcome screen | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | and the bookmarks | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | and a series of youtube videos | 13:50 |
| lilliput | I would like to ask few questions before my fist firmware upgrade, currently I'm on 1.2009.42-11.203.2 - UK - My understanding is that I should apply the 44-1 (1.01) update before the 1.1 but I can't see this firmware on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd suggest you at least watch the youtube videos | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | lilliput: oh brother | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | lilliput: so... | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | first of all | 13:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | the flashable images are a waste of space and bandwidth | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | second of all | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | the regional variants are even more wasteful | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | third | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | just do two over the air updates like everyone else | 13:51 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; why does the browser have to reload a page when you move back in your recent visited page history? it's quite painful on slow sites | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: you just spent time complaining about a lack of disk space | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | did you notice we have limited ram too? | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | where would you like for us to stick the pages in your history? | 13:52 |
| lilliput | timeless_mbp, which package is the ota ? | 13:52 |
| * timeless_mbp begins to really hate end users | 13:52 | |
| timeless_mbp | lilliput: it's "Maemo 5" in "Updates" | 13:52 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; the page seems to be there when you first select the page, but then it starts to reload it | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | nope | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | that's a picture of the page | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | we store pictures | 13:53 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how to prove that | 13:53 | |
| Trizt | okey, but don't that take space/memory too? | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | a web page can be 10mb | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | a picture will be ... much less, and have a fixed known size | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | (i'm too lazy to do the math) | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: everything's a compromise | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | if you don't like the compromises we made, you're free to use another browser | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Firefox for Mobile (Fennec, whatever) made a different set of compromises | 13:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you like its set better, please feel free to use it and complain to them | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, if you want to use Tear or Midori, please feel free to do so | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | but i wouldn't really recommend complaining too loudly to any of them | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | Midori knows that its user interface isn't fingerable | 13:55 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; if no one complains, then how can you start thinking of some new solution that may be better or get the opertunity to say "shut up" | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | Firefox for Mobile knows that its user interface isn't responsive | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 13:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok. SHUT UP | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | please don't assume that the people who write software never use it | 13:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's true that the Finnish user interface designers don't even use Paper Bags | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | let alone the software they design or their competition | 13:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | but that doesn't mean that browser authors don't. | 13:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | we're generally well aware of our own deficiencies, thank you very much. | 13:56 |
| *** florian_kc has quit IRC | 13:57 | |
| timeless_mbp | however, the solution to most of the deficiencies we have are better hardware | 13:57 |
| *** dirk2 has quit IRC | 13:57 | |
| timeless_mbp | (more ram, more rows of keys for the keyboard, larger root file system, working swap) | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | the software team for the most part can't fix any of those | 13:57 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; U never know, there seems to be people who don't test their products, two nokia products I can think of are the nokia shop and the music store | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | and certainly not the browser team | 13:58 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 13:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | they asked nokia employees at the end of 2008 iirc to use Nokia Music store | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | they even gave us vouchers to do so | 13:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think the only thing we managed to do was cause NGage not to ship on time | 13:59 |
| Trizt | I guess no one used them :P | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | because it really wasn't ready | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | so, as a testing group, we succeeded in one area | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | but we don't get points for that | 13:59 |
| timeless_mbp | instead people complain that the other ones weren't sidelined long enough :) | 13:59 |
| lilliput | timeless_mbp, sorry to bother you with these types of lame questions - the update is on the way | 13:59 |
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| Trizt | update? | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | lilliput: fwiw, i was responsible for getting the previous engb version up | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | which means i'm going to have to figure out where the other two are | 14:00 |
| RST38h | "...In view of the fuller submission provided by the BBC, Ofcom is currently minded to approve its request..." | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | because obviously the magic little elves didn't do it this time either | 14:00 |
| *** DrIDK has quit IRC | 14:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | i'm looking but Trizt sidetracked m e | 14:00 |
| RST38h | The "fuller submission" part is sexy | 14:00 |
| Trizt | sorry | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: ASSHATS | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: roughly: please don't bite the hand that's talking to you | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | it will bite back | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | even finns do it | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: It's an utterly fucking ludicrous suggestion. | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | although they typically stab you in the back | 14:01 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; here in Sweden say we use knives | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: the only alternative, is that it runs away never to be seen again | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | which isn't good for the community either | 14:02 |
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| tps_ | how is Hildon and Qt related in maemo? | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: neglecting the fact that security of media based around a 10K table solves nothing. And that media can be downloaded first from other markets generally. | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | tps_: badly | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | or nearly not at all? | 14:02 |
| * Trizt don't manage the hover mode to get activated :( | 14:02 | |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: a 10K already derived table | 14:02 |
| tps_ | sorry... my bad, I meant: how is Hildon and GTK related in maemo? | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | hildon is a widget set on top of gtk | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | tps_: hildon is a superset of GTK | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | tps_: hildon widgets are used to do some of the theming | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | tps_: and lots of teh stuff is called hildon* - hildon application mangler forex. | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | hildon widgets tend to have the same basic api as related gtk widgets | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | but with extra properties for their hildon specific quirks | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | But retarded for the n900. | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | s/retarded/optimised/ | 14:04 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil meant: But optimised for the n900. | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: nah, forget that regexp :) | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtor: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/icd/Screenshot-20100124-093022.png | 14:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | in case people are curious: i'm using the standard digital nature | 14:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i.e. the gray text there means "yes, you can't click on any of those items" | 14:05 |
| tps_ | okay... with plans of making Qt the development platform from maemo 6. What then happens to hildon? | 14:06 |
| alterego | i guessed that ;) | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | tps_: the roadmap has answers | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | have you considered reading it? | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise, why do we bother publishing them? | 14:07 |
| tps_ | timeless_mnbp: the roadmap? Please can you give me link to that? | 14:07 |
| tps_ | timeless_mbp: the roadmap? Please can you give me link to that? | 14:07 |
| alterego | does anyone have a strategy for syncing bookmarks between N900 and firefox on their desktop/workstation? | 14:07 |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: MicroB can import .html bookmark files | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Firefox can export the same | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | totally untested, but in theory it should work | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | if it doesn't, please file a bug, because it should at least be documented | 14:08 |
| alterego | can that be automated thoug? :) | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | no :) | 14:08 |
| * Stskeeps ponders idly if webos could boot on n900 | 14:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: didn't you wonder that a few hours ago? | 14:08 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: maybe | 14:08 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|afk | 14:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: you can use Firefox for Mobile w/ Weave if you want a more integrated system | 14:09 |
| lardman|afk | bbl | 14:09 |
| alterego | hrm... | 14:09 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: You should teach yourself to think the way business people do! | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Firefox is actually faster than microb. | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | For teh first page load at least for me. | 14:10 |
| * RST38h assumes a really important pose | 14:10 | |
| SpeedEvil | (slashdot, ebay, google) | 14:10 |
| Robot101 | tps_: www.lmgtfy.com/?q=maemo+roadmap :) | 14:10 |
| SpeedEvil | however - it rapidly slows down. | 14:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Does anyone know how to kill microb? | 14:10 |
| alterego | heh | 14:10 |
| SpeedEvil | without the watchdog kicking in | 14:11 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Yea, do you wanna do it normally, or with extreme prejudice? | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: hey! | 14:11 |
| timeless_mbp | tps_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Maemo_roadmap/Harmattan#Changes | 14:11 |
| alterego | I suppose I could write a firefox extension for syncing the bokkmarks. | 14:11 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if he can get the EU to ban nokia forcing microb on us and have a browser choice on first boot! | 14:12 | |
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| alterego | heh | 14:12 |
| tps_ | timeless_mbp: thanks | 14:12 |
| RST38h | Will IE be available as an option? | 14:12 |
| RST38h | Makes no sense unless IE is available. | 14:12 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: we don't have a monopoly | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: realistically - I just want to do /etc/rc.whatever/microbd stop | 14:12 |
| timeless_mbp | unless you can find a market you can claim we monopolize | 14:12 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvile: Well find where browserd starts in /etc/rc* and remove it | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: of phone computers running linux with internal keyboards. | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: the market of maemo devices ;p | 14:13 |
| RST38h | Change Sxx to Dxx, and you are done | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: well - yes. | 14:13 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: we don't have a monopoly on those | 14:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and vendors are free to not use microb | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I can do that trivially - but where is the watchdog. The device reboots if microb is kept down | 14:13 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, given that the ui isn't open source, i'd half expect them not to :) | 14:13 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: No shit??? | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: and it's not started in the same file | 14:14 |
| * timeless_mbp tries to remember the name of the chinese maemo device | 14:14 | |
| * RST38h doubts any 3rd party vendor will use Maemo5 after what has been done to GTK+ | 14:14 | |
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| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: don't forget to remove the lifeguard from /usr/bin/browser | 14:15 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: In theory, the watchdog is global and should have nothing to do with microb | 14:15 |
| timeless_mbp | otheriwse you'll be very unhappy | 14:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: it protects a number of processes, which iirc includes /usr/bin/browser | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | well "protects" is a bit strong | 14:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's more like a resurrecting angel than a guardian angel | 14:16 |
| * RST38h sighs | 14:16 | |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm - someone said it did | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | the process can die, it just gets respawned | 14:16 |
| alterego | will we have webgl in the next microb update? :) | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought I'd got it to once - but it's not doing it now | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: internally we do | 14:16 |
| Luser | but.. is it the processes that toggle a watchdog value or the watchdog process that checks all of them? | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | but i don't think it's officially promised | 14:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Luser: the list is configurable | 14:17 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone can remove it from the list | 14:17 |
| timeless_mbp | (at their own risk...) | 14:17 |
| alterego | nice, I'd quite like to play with it :) | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: where is lifeguard? | 14:17 |
| Luser | timeless_mbp, ahhhh. does it work too for my n800? I never browse with my n800 and that browserd is a pain | 14:17 |
| timeless_mbp | from memory it was faster than on sp3000 's linux desktop :) | 14:17 |
| timeless_mbp | (this says more about his desktop than about the n900) | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I've not found what does the lifeguard stuff. | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I may be particularly stupid this week. | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - got it | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | grep -i | 14:18 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: i'm an end user, i like to pretend i don't know how the system casts its black magic | 14:18 |
| timeless_mbp | so yes, i'll claim you're particularly stupid and lazy :) | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | or not | 14:18 |
| lilliput | timeless_mbp, to do the ota update of 2.2009.51.-1.203.2 the system is requiring to have the nokia software - is there any other alternative that having to install windows ? | 14:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | lilliput, that means you've got conflicting software. | 14:19 |
| timeless_mbp | lilliput: there's almost certainly a faq | 14:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | lilliput, Qt4 stuff is a likely culprit. | 14:19 |
| lilliput | GeneralAntilles, ok | 14:19 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly "you broke something" | 14:19 |
| timeless_mbp | uninstall whichever gunk got in its way | 14:19 |
| timeless_mbp | and your update should actually work | 14:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | lilliput, make a backup now, then you can bash it to pieces to get it updated. | 14:20 |
| lcuk | lilliput, there is a wiki page outlining many of the reasons and actions you can take | 14:20 |
| lilliput | ok i'll find what the culprit | 14:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lilliput, what the Application Manager means when it says that you have to use NSU is that there's a conflicting package it can't remove. | 14:20 |
| lcuk | you could try reading it and seeing if any of its steps help | 14:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lilliput, apt-get may be helpful. | 14:20 |
| lcuk | it may also be space related | 14:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no, it says it's a space issue when it's a space issue. | 14:21 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc for space it technically says 'not enough space' | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | ah! | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | dsmetool | 14:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | lilliput, I do not, however, recommend actually using apt-get to do the update itself. | 14:21 |
| * timeless_mbp gives SpeedEvil a cupie doll | 14:21 | |
| lilliput | not the diskspace I have 60MB free - I'll figure out | 14:21 |
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| lilliput | GeneralAntilles ok | 14:22 |
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| lcuk | thx GeneralAntilles timeless for clarification, lilliput if you identify specifics let us know | 14:25 |
| timeless_mbp | lilliput: yeah, please read the wiki and if you find a new culprit, please ensure it's enshrined therin | 14:25 |
| Trizt | just 11 months left to xmas eve | 14:25 |
| lilliput | lcuk, yes I was intended to :) | 14:25 |
| timeless_mbp | s/therin/therein/ | 14:25 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: lilliput: yeah, please read the wiki and if you find a new culprit, please ensure it's enshrined therein | 14:25 |
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| lcuk | lbt, the video is out | 14:26 |
| lcuk | http://www.n900-mobile.co.uk/ | 14:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~upgrading | 14:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~conflicts | 14:28 |
| lcuk | ~win | 14:28 |
| infobot | methinks win is lose. | 14:28 |
| lcuk | bah | 14:28 |
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| LuciusMare | hello,anybody tried syncing with Korganizer? | 14:28 |
| lilliput | lcuk, I like the navigation of the site | 14:29 |
| LuciusMare | Or, what app under linux can sync with fremantle? | 14:29 |
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| lilliput | LuciusMare, I have used syncevolution & a syncml server | 14:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | ok - killall browserd | 14:29 |
| LuciusMare | well,i meant over usb | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | device makes a mournful beep and beroots. | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | which is odd, as that doesn't seem to be what dsmetool config says | 14:30 |
| Luser | dsmetool -k also does not work on my n800. I think I'll use flasher to disable it globally | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - it's after the third death | 14:31 |
| timeless_mbp | deaths happen | 14:31 |
| timeless_mbp | lots of deaths quickly should not happen | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - I misunderstood the -T parameter then I guess. | 14:32 |
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| LuciusMare | lilliput: that is not over usb,right? | 14:32 |
| RST38h | http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html | 14:34 |
| * RST38h hehes | 14:34 | |
| Luser | dsmetool --count-time=0 | 14:35 |
| Luser | has not rebooted after 0s so I guess it's good | 14:35 |
| Luser | :) | 14:35 |
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| lilliput | GeneralAntilles, timeless_mbp LuciusMare lcuk ; I have uninstall few packages and it's now flying ! | 14:37 |
| lilliput | thx | 14:37 |
| lilliput | I was just confused by the message | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Luser: or dsmetool -o (start once) rather than dsmetool -t (start, watch and reboot if killed too often) | 14:38 |
| Luser | SpeedEvil, yes but I was not able to kill browserd.. so not sure what happens for "start once" | 14:38 |
| lcuk | lilliput, great to hear :) | 14:38 |
| Luser | SpeedEvil, I mean not able to kill it with.. dsmetool, probably arg error | 14:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Luser: ah - I just edited config and rebooted | 14:39 |
| SpeedEvil | /etc/X11/something.post/30browsersomething | 14:39 |
| timeless_mbp | oh... lcuk ... | 14:39 |
| timeless_mbp | What route did you take to access the Nokia website today? | 14:39 |
| timeless_mbp | what would you call the page you linked me to | 14:39 |
| Luser | SpeedEvil, yes, I'll do this. flasher also allows to remove the complete watchdog it seems. I don't need this, it never triggered | 14:40 |
| lcuk | timeless, mm? | 14:40 |
| lcuk | i havent linked you to any internal sites | 14:40 |
| timeless_mbp | was the nokia privacy policy link on the page you linked me to | 14:40 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo-uk | 14:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i presume you wouldn't call that a "search engine" | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Luser: however - it's easy to turn off individual things. | 14:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and i presume it wasn't a "blog/online forum" | 14:40 |
| lcuk | http://www.n900-mobile.co.uk/ | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and i presume one wouldn't call the privacy policy at the bottom of your site a "linkl/advertisement" | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, that one | 14:41 |
| Luser | SpeedEvil, by editing each and everyfile ? or is there a list really? editing each file=> no thanks.. | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | was it a "social networking site"? | 14:41 |
| lcuk | i hadnt seen that i never scrolled down | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | try it | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Luser: yeah - each file - I was meaning if you want to kill something in partuicilar | 14:41 |
| timeless_mbp | you should get a chance to take the nokia.co.uk survey | 14:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Luser: also removing or renaming dsmetool should work. (according to all scripts I have read so far) | 14:42 |
| lcuk | timeless, lol i might, whats the highlight | 14:42 |
| lcuk | s | 14:42 |
| Luser | anyway, a software watchdog is not a real watchdog | 14:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Does modest have any role other than email? | 14:43 |
| Luser | SpeedEvil, good idea yes. | 14:43 |
| timeless_mbp | a survey that's totally incapable of handling this entry path | 14:43 |
| lcuk | oh cool | 14:43 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: it's fun to take this survey monthly :) | 14:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | sadly, it's the .eu we're idiots and think long surveys are cool | 14:43 |
| timeless_mbp | the us surveys promise to be short | 14:43 |
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| lcuk | god im cold for the firsttime since i got home | 14:44 |
| lcuk | but my little stack of 3 interwoven n900s looks cool | 14:44 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 14:45 |
| timeless_mbp | > Please indicate to what extent you agree with these statements about the design of the Nokia website? | 14:45 |
| timeless_mbp | > Uses an appealing colour scheme and design | 14:45 |
| timeless_mbp | that's always one of the highlights of nokia surveys :) | 14:46 |
| LuciusMare | so how do you sync? | 14:48 |
| timeless_mbp | LuciusMare: MfE | 14:49 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 14:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: another highlight | 14:49 |
| timeless_mbp | > What operating system do you mainly use on your PC or laptop? | 14:49 |
| timeless_mbp | > Windows Vista | 14:49 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 14:49 |
| MistaED | hi, could anyone here tell me does the armel gcc compiler in scratchbox run as an emulated process or is it an x86 compiler compiling arm? please don't tell me it's the former this will take ages then :P | 14:49 |
| timeless_mbp | > Mac OS | 14:49 |
| timeless_mbp | they don't offer W7 or OS X | 14:49 |
| * timeless_mbp tries to figure out why someone would pay bills online more than 3 times a week | 14:50 | |
| timeless_mbp | surely one can't have that many bills in a month | 14:51 |
| RST38h | lcuk: What are you doing to poor n900s? | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: paypal? | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: camgirls? | 14:51 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: more than 3 times a week? | 14:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrm, do i want to know what that is? | 14:52 |
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| * timeless_mbp kicks google | 14:52 | |
| Vengeful | can the n900 broke it's dependencies? | 14:53 |
| Vengeful | i can't install the extra subtitle support | 14:53 |
| Vengeful | because he complain that the glibstreamer0.10-0 is not installed | 14:53 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; have you ever been successful to complete that questioner about nokia? it always fails for me when I have done 92%-97% and it's always a bit random regardless which browser I use, chromium, konqueror, firefox, seamonkey or opera | 14:53 |
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| Vengeful | which they are, or maybe an old version | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: i complete them at least monthly | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | odd that you're having problems | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | are you taking nokia.co.uk surveys, or nokiausa.com surveys or nokia.co.in surveys or? | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | you can take them in any language | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | google translate will work well enough | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | definitely try one of the others to see if it's specific to the domain | 14:54 |
| Trizt | w8, I'll check the link | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | the surveys are slightly different | 14:54 |
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| Trizt | I have used the one that pops up in nokia.se | 14:55 |
| Vengeful | should i reformat it? :| | 14:55 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; but don't that just redirect you to an international site? | 14:55 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 14:55 |
| timeless_mbp | nokiausa.com will definitely leave you in the usa site | 14:55 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you kill a cookie you can get the other sites | 14:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | Trizt: try nokiausa.com/nokia.co.uk | 14:57 |
| RST38h | new telepathy-haze is coming. yummy! | 14:57 |
| timeless_mbp | the maemo uk link from lcuk is a good one since the privacy policy will take you to .co.uk | 14:58 |
| alterego | with glade, is it possible to use maemo theming whilst messing about designing a ui? | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | if it doesn't, it's really broken | 14:58 |
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| Trizt | timeless_mbp; don't seem to get up the requester, even if I have cleared cache and cookies | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: there's some randomness to it | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | does your useragent include a preference for se? | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | if so, i'd suggest you ditch it for a bit :) | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure if it matters | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | do remember that at least in theory, it shouldn't happen to *every* visitor :) | 15:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | you can leave, and try again :) | 15:00 |
| Trizt | no, no my user agent tells that I use us english | 15:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | ime if i go to 5 different nokia domains 3 should give me the survey | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i can speak enough spanish to survive, so that gives me plenty of domains to visit :) | 15:01 |
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| Trizt | :) | 15:01 |
| timeless_mbp | note: i don't frequently do this | 15:02 |
| timeless_mbp | but i will do it occasionally because it's amusing | 15:02 |
| Trizt | so it's not your day to day task? | 15:02 |
| lilliput | last ota update finished my '3' 3G simcard is now working :) all good | 15:02 |
| timeless_mbp | no :) | 15:02 |
| RST38h | And Go Language has now been compiled for N900 | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 15:03 |
| RST38h | Is it that Google Java or something? | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It's clearly a turing complete language for playing Go. | 15:04 |
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| javispedro | morning | 15:09 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; from the swedish site you get to five.surveys.com and that one failes for me on all my installed browsers, I have to say I never tested it on elinks, but it has less javascript support so I guess it fails on the first page already | 15:10 |
| Trizt | and it seems like the uk survey uses the same service | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, five.surveys.com | 15:12 |
| Trizt | you need MSIE7+ or? | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | lemme finnish my survey to verify it actually works | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm using safari on osx | 15:12 |
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| Trizt | okey | 15:12 |
| timeless_mbp | > Please choose up to three of the following words which you feel best match your personality.Please select up to three responses that apply | 15:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | ooh, i got "bonus questions" | 15:14 |
| RST38h | moorning javispedro | 15:14 |
| Trizt | wow | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | mrIWeb.dll:17XML self-closing tag syntax used on <td>. The tag will not be closed. | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | mrIWeb.dll:35<meta> is not allowed inside <span>. Moving <meta> into the <head>. | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | clever. | 15:14 |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 15:15 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, is broken. | 15:15 |
| Trizt | maybe they don't want bad critics ;) | 15:15 |
| timeless_mbp | <span class="mrBannerText" style=""><meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0;url=http://pub.risc-int.com/int/N3/gfk2/English/RISC.asp?id=1264309733:15780"/></span> | 15:15 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 15:15 | |
| timeless_mbp | wtf? | 15:15 |
| timeless_mbp | someone wrapped their bonus question in default html | 15:16 |
| timeless_mbp | clever! | 15:16 |
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| javispedro | anyone knows of some emulator GUI that allows you to map a single key to multiple buttons so that I can shamelessly copy it? | 15:16 |
| javispedro | (visually only, of course) | 15:17 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: safari's dev console helped point this out + view source showed me the text | 15:17 |
| timeless_mbp | i just followed the url to get my bonus questions :) | 15:17 |
| timeless_mbp | multiple buttons?? | 15:18 |
| Trizt | I'll see if I can see something in firebug on FF3.6 | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: the bonus questions are funny | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | > I spend more and more time taking care of myself, in order to feel good | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | definitely worth the trip | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: the firefox error console should show them, i think | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure if we actually report misplaced metas | 15:18 |
| RST38h | javispedro: you want to call gtk key handle multiple times, faking events | 15:19 |
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| RST38h | handler | 15:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: he said he wants to visually clone it | 15:19 |
| javispedro | I want GUI ideas | 15:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd assume that means he wants to clone how it does configuration | 15:19 |
| timeless_mbp | not how it does work | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Ah ok | 15:19 |
| javispedro | since I'm already making a 4 dialog depth mess | 15:19 |
| timeless_mbp | yuck | 15:20 |
| timeless_mbp | can you just explain what you're trying to do? | 15:20 |
| RST38h | javispedro: two kinetic scroll rings | 15:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtor / wazd / I, might just be able to suggest something | 15:20 |
| RST38h | javispedro: the one on the left lets you choose the source key, the one on the right is multiple select and lets you choose destination keys | 15:20 |
| javispedro | aha | 15:20 |
| javispedro | though any way not to fall into the "add mapping/ remove mapping" paradox | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: you said "multiple buttons" | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i kinda assumed you meant "mouse buttons" | 15:21 |
| RST38h | javispedro: when no buttons selected on the right, that is "remove mapping" | 15:21 |
| javispedro | timeless: I mean keyboard key -> controller button A + controller button B | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | this is for rapid fire gaming? | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | you should probably find videos of how the NES/SNES gamer controllers worked :) | 15:22 |
| javispedro | well, sometimes mapping some of the shoulder buttons + B does wonders for some games (some popular racing game comes to mind) | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | Unmatched </input> encountered. Ignoring tag. | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | cute | 15:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | these idiots are writing XHTML and serving it as HTML | 15:24 |
| timeless_mbp | > Thank you for taking the time to complete this survey for the Nokia website. Your opinions are very valuable and will help us develop the service that we offer you. | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: so, survey completed | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | /projects/j246378c/standardEffects.js:3ReferenceError: Can't find variable: $ | 15:25 |
| Trizt | 52% at the moment | 15:26 |
| javispedro | heh. | 15:26 |
| * SpeedEvil has been playing with fennec. It's getting better. Even with several tabs open - it's faster than my net. Though my net is going at ~50K/s. It may feel slower if you've got lots of RAM | 15:26 | |
| SpeedEvil | err | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | lots of net | 15:26 |
| lcuk | only fishermen have lots of net | 15:27 |
| Luser | who can try xmms on n900. Don't have such device. I guess it will fail to install but I'd like to know.. | 15:27 |
| Luser | (not optified) | 15:27 |
| RST38h | Oh shit there is also a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFZTAOb7IE | 15:28 |
| Trizt | I got the question, "Roughly when do you think you will purchase your next mobile phone?", when is the N1000 supposed to be released? ;) | 15:29 |
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| lcuk | Trizt, those 2 questions are very different to each other | 15:29 |
| Luser | i am searching for excuse to not buy a n900. even went on android channel and then told me the n900 is more hackable. lol | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I think on wednesday. +-3 days. | 15:31 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, im thinking within a week or so also, depends when i get paid | 15:31 |
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| alterego | Anyone use pymaemo, I can't seem to get the content area of a gtk.Dialog ... | 15:31 |
| mikhas | Luser, let me try: it costs a fricking €500 + taxes! | 15:33 |
| LuciusMare | +texas? | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | mikhas: depending on your location, you may be able to get a contract - to spread the load | 15:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://itmademyday.com/2009/12/15/prettyrawr/ | 15:33 |
| mikhas | still, android phones are generally cheaper, aren't they? event w/o contract | 15:34 |
| mikhas | *even | 15:34 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; got the following error at complete: $ is not defined | 15:34 |
| Trizt | standardEffects.js()standa...ects.js (line 3) | 15:34 |
| Trizt | $(document).ready(function() { | 15:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikhas, quality wise? Most certainly. ;) | 15:34 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: i think i got a similar error | 15:34 |
| timeless_mbp | mikhas: dunno | 15:35 |
| Trizt | someone forgot to include the jquery | 15:35 |
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| Trizt | this was first time I got to finish the survey, but that is the first time I used ff3.6 on that site | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.google.com/products?q=android+phone&price1=350.00&price2=&lnk=prsugg | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | HTC Magic A6161 Android G2 Unlocked Phone with Quad-Band GSM, 5 MP ... | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | is 598.07 USD new free shipping | 15:36 |
| mikhas | hm yeah. the price span is hefty for android phones | 15:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | HTC Hero Android G3 A6262 GSM Black Unlocked Cell Phone is 620 USD new | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp | those are cost competitive to the n900 unlocked | 15:36 |
| mikhas | from below €100 to over €600 | 15:36 |
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| * RST38h happily notices that his crystal balls were right on target | 15:36 | |
| Trizt | how good are HTC? never thought their windows mobile phones where any good | 15:37 |
| RST38h | With Android pushing WinMo out of the market | 15:37 |
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| alterego | Ah, just vbox .. | 15:37 |
| * mikhas doesn't want to know about RST38h's "crystal" balls | 15:37 | |
| RST38h | Good. | 15:37 |
| Luser | mikhas, yes. well, I payed my n800. 450 euros at the time.. | 15:37 |
| mikhas | HTC Hero is pretty good | 15:37 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.auroracell.com/htc-magic-unlocked-gsm.html?___store=default at 398.08 USD does seem to be on the lower side | 15:38 |
| mikhas | from what I heard =) | 15:38 |
| timeless_mbp | mikhas: i've used it | 15:38 |
| timeless_mbp | i was not impressed, nor was the colleague of mine who let me play | 15:38 |
| lcuk | mikhas, you are in a different situation arent you, dont you need a development discount | 15:38 |
| Luser | I need a qwerty keyboard anyway | 15:38 |
| mikhas | no, I am just stating in all honesty that I find €600 pretty expensive for such devices. | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | mikhas: err | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | don't buy phones in europe | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | that's insane | 15:39 |
| mikhas | yup | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | buy them in the usa | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | you can overpay for any phone you like in Europe | 15:39 |
| Luser | I'm a net-buyer noob.. | 15:39 |
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| keesj | what other handheld device plays quake so good? | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | that's your privilege as a European | 15:39 |
| timeless_mbp | keesj: i'd hope the Gameboy DS or a similar competitor ;-) | 15:40 |
| keesj | pandora | 15:40 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; so not buy it from the factory directly? | 15:40 |
| Luser | for sure I won't be it in my home country. france.. it's 50 euros more than say in germany. freaking taxes | 15:40 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: typically Amazon or a similar American retailer will have the best rate | 15:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | you'll save 2-300 USD that way | 15:40 |
| mikhas | It helps to have friends in the US if you have problems evading taxes, I guess | 15:41 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; I usually buy stuff in HK and can save the shipping cost too | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 15:41 |
| keesj | becasue of the angry bird I really need to get a few more N900 as my kids don't let met play any more. | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | no clue what the price is in HK or if it's even available | 15:41 |
| timeless_mbp | keesj: lol | 15:42 |
| keesj | the good thing is that I can still ssh to the device | 15:42 |
| mikhas | nice | 15:42 |
| timeless_mbp | that's awesome | 15:42 |
| Luser | but.. there's no risk that the custom at the borders block it? | 15:42 |
| Luser | or that the waranty is void in case you need to send it back | 15:43 |
| alterego | Hrm, how come my CheckButton's don't have the same padding as the built in applications' CheckButtons ... | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | Luser: if the product is used and properly declared | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | Luser: you'll want your friend to ensure it works | 15:43 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise you waste time w/ shipping | 15:43 |
| RST38h | alterego: you have to change padding? | 15:43 |
| alterego | They're not shadded either .. | 15:43 |
| alterego | ~shaded .. | 15:43 |
| RST38h | eh? | 15:43 |
| Luser | ah yes, without the box then probably? "used" not so clear to me | 15:43 |
| mikhas | =) | 15:44 |
| timeless_mbp | not quite sure | 15:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | personally i'm in the states twice a year some years | 15:44 |
| timeless_mbp | so if i'm going to buy something, i'll just buy it | 15:44 |
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| RST38h | ah I know | 15:44 |
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| dexen | hello :) | 15:44 |
| RST38h | alterego: You want HildonCheckButton | 15:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i think it should be sufficient to have removed the n900 from its box and packed it separately (having at least removed the black screen film) | 15:45 |
| alterego | RST38h: that's what I'm using ... | 15:45 |
| RST38h | ok, wait | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | (probably a good idea again to have actually turned it on to verify it works) | 15:45 |
| Luser | I do have friends going over there, that's safer. at least if block at the border, he'll pay the fine | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 15:45 |
| Luser | I can't imagine my n900 staying at the border.. :( | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | but yeah, i'd definitely go w/ a friend just bringing it back | 15:46 |
| RST38h | alterego: call hildon_check_button_new(HILDON_SIZE_AUTO) | 15:46 |
| timeless_mbp | probably be sure that your friend has the receipt and knows that it's less than whatever the official import/export value limit is | 15:46 |
| Trizt | Once I brought quite a lot of computer hardware, the customs in amsterdam wanted to tax me quite a lot | 15:46 |
| alterego | RST38h: again, that's what I'm doing ;) | 15:46 |
| Luser | in the us, it's available in stores without contract easily? | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | should be... | 15:47 |
| Luser | he has american passport , that will help | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: if the n900 is bought for <500USD and the limit is >500USD then it shouldn't be too bad | 15:47 |
| Trizt | ain't the border 200€ | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno | 15:47 |
| timeless_mbp | 200eur seems incredibly unreasonable | 15:48 |
| Trizt | I don't think they have raised it since I bought my previous computer (in parts) | 15:48 |
| timeless_mbp | if he's an american, and he bought it and he has a receipt and shows he paid taxes | 15:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't see how they can complain about him bringing it across the border | 15:48 |
| timeless_mbp | it's only a problem if he _sells_ it | 15:48 |
| timeless_mbp | which he obviously must not do :) | 15:49 |
| Luser | actually he does it, he brings lots of things and then sells them :) | 15:49 |
| Luser | he gets his holidays in california paid with it | 15:49 |
| timeless_mbp | well, err, that's almost certainly "risky" | 15:49 |
| RST38h | alterego: then I have no idea | 15:50 |
| RST38h | 'cause the same thing seems to work here | 15:50 |
| pupnik | genius hardware design on n900. when it falls on the back corner, the cover absorbs shock and dislodges. when it falls on a front corner, the screen ring spreads the shock | 15:50 |
| alterego | RST38h: well, I'm looking at the hermes source, so I'm sure I'm missing something :) | 15:50 |
| timeless_mbp | Luser: it sounds like he's already breaking the law in which case, as long as he doesn't go over whatever the next limit is, it's his neck :/ | 15:50 |
| Luser | timeless_mbp, you said "he's an american, and he bought it and he has a receipt and shows he paid taxes", what taxes you mean? american taxes? | 15:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | yes | 15:51 |
| RST38h | pupnik: That is borrowed from 5800 though | 15:51 |
| timeless_mbp | sales tax w/o demanding a refund | 15:51 |
| pupnik | ah. well tech is evolutionary. ty | 15:51 |
| alterego | RST38h: hildon.CheckButton(gtk.HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT) | 15:51 |
| timeless_mbp | if i'm in the states (or canada) and i buy a pair of pants, and pay taxes for them | 15:52 |
| alterego | Doh! :) | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and wear them with me | 15:52 |
| RST38h | alterego: told you | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i would strenuously object to paying import taxes on my pants | 15:52 |
| RST38h | alterego: should have used AUTO everywhere | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | they're mine. i paid for them. i paid taxes on them. | 15:52 |
| Luser | timeless_mbp, yes, that's what he does, he has everything ON him | 15:52 |
| alterego | RST38h: I was using auto everywhere, that's why it _wasn'_ working :P | 15:52 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Same designer afaik | 15:52 |
| alterego | Using FINGER_HEIGHT makes them the right size. | 15:52 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Which is a really good thing, given how wacky some other Nokia designs are (N95 anyone? =)) | 15:53 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 15:53 | |
| * timeless_mbp can't figure out which brick stores actually have the n900 | 15:53 | |
| RST38h | alterego: Should have used auto in hermes too :) | 15:53 |
| alterego | Heh, but then they'd me too small | 15:53 |
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| dexen | timeless_mbp: why brick stores, why not to buy through nokia.com? | 15:53 |
| dexen | timeless_mbp: i made the mistake of ordering from a brick&mortar store first | 15:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, supposedly Best Buy was goingto carry it. | 15:53 |
| dexen | and they delayed it terribly; so i cancelled and went for nokia :P | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | dexen: i think, but this is a personal belief, that the brick stores will have it cheaper | 15:54 |
| lbt | heh - lcuk...video looks cool :) but I clicked on the Vodafone link and it offered me an iPhone 3G ..... ROFL | 15:54 |
| Trizt | GeneralAntilles; but don't Best Buy say Linux breaks your hardware? | 15:54 |
| dexen | timeless_mbp: har har har | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia is likely to sell it for list | 15:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: installing your own linux on the n900 could too | 15:55 |
| timeless_mbp | so nothing wrong w/ their opinion :) | 15:55 |
| timeless_mbp | 'course, shooting your hardware w/ a gun or a laser/taser could probably too | 15:55 |
| dexen | lbt: not very funny, actually :P | 15:56 |
| pupnik | wait, n900 has not taser? | 15:56 |
| dexen | some people still think of phones in terms of bullet pointed lists of features | 15:56 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: shooting your n900 with a taser... | 15:56 |
| * Trizt hardly sees how linux would make hardware to break, but yes it could make it to not work as expected when lacking support for it | 15:57 | |
| pupnik | i still need to buy a n900 | 15:57 |
| Luser | me too | 15:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | Trizt: the kernel more or less manages the hardware | 15:57 |
| * dexen is a happy owner, for about one week now | 15:57 | |
| lcuk | lbt, doh! | 15:57 |
| timeless_mbp | it's responsible for protecting the hardware from itself | 15:57 |
| Luser | pupnik, you're in germany too? no n900 in saturn? :) | 15:57 |
| lbt | yeah.... | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. the kernel prevents the speakers from breaking | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | if your kernel doesn't protect your speakers and you send them bad input | 15:58 |
| * lcuk cant get warm this morning | 15:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | the speakers break | 15:58 |
| lbt | ok, off for some food | 15:58 |
| pupnik | Luser: i try to show off the n900 in stores | 15:58 |
| dexen | timeless_mbp: that's true for a lot of drivers... | 15:58 |
| lbt | lcuk: | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: sure | 15:58 |
| lbt | keep the wifi on... | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but you asked how it could be a problem | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | this is how :) | 15:58 |
| pupnik | make conspicuous use of it when standing around | 15:58 |
| lbt | the N900 makes a nice handwarmer then | 15:58 |
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| lcuk | lbt, devices run stone cold | 15:58 |
| dexen | lcuk: not in my experience | 15:58 |
| pupnik | someone can please get irssi to drive espeak | 15:58 |
| timeless_mbp | installing a kernel which isn't aware of what it needs to do to protect the hardware can result in the hardware not being protected... | 15:59 |
| dexen | not when loaded heavily, that is | 15:59 |
| lcuk | i know it can get hot | 15:59 |
| Luser | pupnik, I found my n800 in a saturn shop, 50km from my house. when I arrived I asked for this and he said. uh ok, I have to say it was a mistake, we never wanted this.. he left me alone with the device to try it | 15:59 |
| lcuk | but right now the 3 of them are running in concert with each other | 15:59 |
| lcuk | and they are not warm | 15:59 |
| lcuk | they do warm up when charging | 15:59 |
| lbt | ping -f | 15:59 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; thats assuming that the hardware will always be on max volume when init, that would be a hardware design fault according to me | 15:59 |
| pupnik | i bought my 770 from saturn iirc | 15:59 |
| timeless_mbp | Trizt: no | 15:59 |
| dexen | Trizt: call it `cutting the corners'; the iPhone lowered the price bar terribly :P | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | the hardware as it's designed here relies on the software for protection | 16:00 |
| Luser | pupnik, but i don't like the german layout, nor my native language one, french | 16:00 |
| mikhas | pupnik, yeah - it's a great prank. because you *know* that most stores in DE still dont have it =) | 16:00 |
| RST38h | lcuk: What? No Heater app for N900 yet??? | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | it's too expensive to include full hardware protection | 16:00 |
| lcuk | RST38h, of course theres a damned bacon grill in there | 16:00 |
| dexen | RST38h: you can disable WiFi power saving for that result :P | 16:00 |
| lcuk | i just put a rasher on the keyboard and slide it in | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want a 5000EUR product which is immune to software attacks | 16:00 |
| mikhas | usual response: "we ordered some a while ago ..." | 16:00 |
| RST38h | dexen: I can just run Transmission for that result | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | that might be possible, it might cost 20kEUR, dunno | 16:00 |
| lcuk | but right now its col | 16:00 |
| lcuk | dd | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | but you won't get it for 500USD | 16:00 |
| dexen | RST38h: hehe | 16:00 |
| * RST38h notices that the hardware filter would cost <$.10 | 16:01 | |
| lcuk | adhoc wifi is more beneficial | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Definitely less than 5000EUR | 16:01 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: it isn't the only component | 16:01 |
| timeless_mbp | plus there's the testing required to verify it actually works | 16:01 |
| Luser | actually I have to disable power saving on my n800. crap router. battery empties in ~2h :( | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | nothing is as cheap as the sticker says on the component | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | and you know it. | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Well it is the only component needed for protecting speakers | 16:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | so stop it | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't list 5kEUR for the speakers | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | i said against all software | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Actually, I do know it and it is $.10 | 16:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | that doesn't include testing costs | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | and you do know that. | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | so stop it. | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | troll. | 16:02 |
| RST38h | You test the whole device, not every single hw component in the audio path | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | speaker protection is probably not actually speaker protection. | 16:03 |
| RST38h | This is not software, so the classic "we have to test and document it!" argument will not fly | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It's almost certainly deemphasising bass below - say - 300Hz - to stop it clipping | 16:03 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 16:03 | |
| timeless_mbp | the test and document it nonsense comes from hardware | 16:03 |
| SpeedEvil | As otherwise - if you play most any file at all on the speakers at moderate volume - it will clip | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Except that in the hardware it does not apply to every passive component you place on the pcb | 16:04 |
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| w00t | i'm pretty sure that to be able to *sell* it - if nothing else - it'd have to be tested | 16:04 |
| Luser | who can do an installation experiment on an n900 for me? I'd like to see if xmms is compatible with the n900. I guess not.. | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | What component do you imagine is $.10? | 16:04 |
| Damion2 | OYG this channel is busy | 16:04 |
| RST38h | In software, if you feel like justifying not doing something, you can always claim testing/documentation is done to every software fix | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | And will do the same job? | 16:04 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Frequency filter | 16:05 |
| Damion2 | it's taken me 2hrs just to catch up from eam | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: umm - no, it's probably not. | 16:05 |
| Damion2 | 3am | 16:05 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: It is, if you are simply adding a passive frequency filter | 16:05 |
| pupnik | can n900 board hook up to n810 screen? | 16:05 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: i'm willing to accept his price, although if he's wrong, i'd love to know | 16:05 |
| lcuk | Damion2, you will never routinely keep up with everything | 16:05 |
| lcuk | i gave up that a looooooooooooong time ago | 16:05 |
| w00t | ^ | 16:06 |
| w00t | what lcuk said | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway. | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: did you kill your n900's screen? | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | If it can be done in software - it should be. | 16:06 |
| w00t | thankfully I'm here many hours a day, so I don't miss out on much :-) | 16:06 |
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| lcuk | just set some triggers and have an occasional scan back for highlights | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | If the result of it not working in software is simply that it sounds shit. | 16:06 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: It can, at the cost of 10% of your CPU | 16:06 |
| pupnik | Luser: xmms isnt so good. some native client that can SHUFFLE PLAY A DIRECTORY is needed | 16:06 |
| lcuk | you dont scrollback through conversations in the pub | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: 10% is bullshit IMO. | 16:06 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Talk to pupnik, it is his pet peeve | 16:06 |
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| pupnik | timeless_mbp: dreaming of a n810 with n900 mobo :) | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: In no way should it take 10% - however that is a seperate issue. | 16:07 |
| Luser | pupnik, well, I don't use it really but a lot of people like it. it has a lot of good aspects. | 16:07 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: why? | 16:07 |
| Damion2 | lcuk: I keep a recording of converswations in the pub so I can catch up later | 16:07 |
| timeless_mbp | you like the keyboard better? | 16:07 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Personally, I see 8% from PA every time audio is playing | 16:07 |
| lcuk | Damion2, you will be like me soon | 16:07 |
| * timeless_mbp hated the n810 keyboard | 16:07 | |
| * lcuk rather liked the n810 keyboard | 16:07 | |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: + PA is broken enough to cause applications to lock up | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: remember that sometimes it's 8%@250MHz - so it's not quite that bad. | 16:07 |
| Damion2 | obviously I'm kidding :) | 16:07 |
| pupnik | timeless_mbp: adding 60 tracks to a playlist takes about 15 minutes | 16:07 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: 8% is 8%. | 16:07 |
| Luser | pupnik, the question is not if it's good or not, the thing is, some people want it so I want to find out for them. | 16:08 |
| lcuk | Damion2, im not ;) | 16:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Damion2: obviously we take everything seriously | 16:08 |
| xorAxAx | pupnik: mediabox can do that | 16:08 |
| Damion2 | oh you're american? | 16:08 |
| * lcuk is northern | 16:08 | |
| RST38h | an eskimo? | 16:08 |
| * timeless_mbp is | 16:08 | |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I'm arguing from an irreducable software load. a DSP filter to do stuff to 44KHz with the class of hardware we have onboard - for simple filters - is trivial. | 16:08 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Play music. Run HTOP. See the top line. | 16:09 |
| Damion2 | :recognised rst38 | 16:09 |
| Damion2 | oops | 16:09 |
| * Damion2 recognised even | 16:09 | |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: This is CPU clocks not DSP | 16:09 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, i agree, if the data is already passing through the dsp, adding an additional software filter should be trivial | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Also - 8% is not 8% - you don't care about the 8% - you care that it uses 4% - say - of maximum CPU. | 16:09 |
| lcuk | but it rather dependson the actual pathway | 16:09 |
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| lcuk | and design of the software stack around | 16:09 |
| *** srw has joined #maemo | 16:09 | |
| Damion2 | in the z80 sense not the user on here | 16:09 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Not really. My [useful] app is running at the same CPU and same frequency | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: 8%@250MHz uses a fair bit less power than 8%@600. | 16:10 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: So 8% is 8% to my app. | 16:10 |
| Luser | pupnik, xmms has "randomize list".. | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: If the CPU is not throttled down - sure. | 16:10 |
| * RST38h sighs | 16:10 | |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Ok. Run VGBA. It will not let CPU to be throttled down. Run HTOP. Check how much PA eats. | 16:10 |
| lcuk | RST38h, are you running the device in hand heater mode all 100% of the time | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Right. That's a seperate issue. | 16:11 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Willing to guess what it will be? | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | PA is shit. | 16:11 |
| pupnik | Luser xmms can also load a directory as playlist! | 16:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Of course, it is cold here | 16:11 |
| lcuk | lol | 16:11 |
| lcuk | does angry birds warm the digits? | 16:11 |
| Luser | pupnik, I know.. it's currently running with 16Gb of music in the playlist. takes ~7s to load | 16:11 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Good. Are you willing to run PA 100% time where a $.10 frequency filter would do? | 16:11 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: missing the point | 16:11 |
| xorAxAx | pupnik: mediabox as well | 16:12 |
| RST38h | scroll up | 16:12 |
| lcuk | i want a decent graphic equilizer | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: $.10* a million phones - is a _large_ number. | 16:12 |
| lcuk | i keep thinking of what would be needed | 16:12 |
| lcuk | i like playing with the slider bars | 16:12 |
| RST38h | Speed: It is $100k | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: and plenty to pay a dev to make PA not shite. | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 16:12 |
| lcuk | and that would be the same app as discussed | 16:12 |
| RST38h | Speed: There is no way to make PA not shite | 16:12 |
| lcuk | what is pa | 16:12 |
| frals | lcuk: best motivation ever for making an equalizer... "i like playing with the slider bars" :D | 16:12 |
| RST38h | Speed: I mean you can fix it not to crash | 16:12 |
| lcuk | pissants? | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: no. | 16:13 |
| pupnik | xorAxAx: thanks for suggestion! comparing gpe audio to mediabox now. ty | 16:13 |
| frals | pulseaudio? | 16:13 |
| lcuk | frals, of course | 16:13 |
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| lcuk | i like touching | 16:13 |
| RST38h | Speed: But you cannot make it not to use CPU time | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I mean some generic solution that does not involve hardware - but results in low CPU usage when filtering. | 16:13 |
| lcuk | ive got a timeline graph | 16:13 |
| Damion2 | (from the past) I learnt Go on a course at work | 16:13 |
| lcuk | and i play more | 16:13 |
| dexen | SpeedEvil: something based around DMA? | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Sure. It should realistically take more like .1% of CPU, rather than 10%. | 16:13 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, equilization | 16:13 |
| lcuk | not jhust filtering | 16:13 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: you can notch filter with a delay line :) | 16:13 |
| lcuk | pop, jazz, classic, dance | 16:13 |
| lcuk | etc | 16:13 |
| lcuk | like all mediaplayers have | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Speed: Count the minimal number of memory copies, multiply by 22050*2*2 and see how such generic solution will sitll suck CPU | 16:14 |
| * lcuk gahs | 16:14 | |
| SpeedEvil | There is a DSP. | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Speed: Would you like me to do that for you? | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - for mp3 it's largely irrelevant. | 16:14 |
| pupnik | lcuk: useless on bandwidth limited speakers, useful for headphone/lne-out :) | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | as you do it in frequency space. | 16:14 |
| lcuk | pupnik, good to play | 16:14 |
| lcuk | and let people do stuff | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Speed: We are talking PA. PA has an API. Wherever you stick your DSP, it starts with PA API which runs on the CPU | 16:14 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: yes yes yes | 16:14 |
| lcuk | its a gstreamer thing tho isnt it? | 16:14 |
| lcuk | in the MAFW pipeline | 16:15 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I don't specifically mean PA. | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Speed: Back to square one: count the number of copies, multiply by 22050*2*2, etc | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Speed: Well, we specifically have PA. | 16:15 |
| lcuk | i would happily paY SOME CPU FOR THIS FEATURE | 16:15 |
| lcuk | -caps | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Speed: And even if we do not have PA, count the number of copies, etc - PA has nothing to do with it | 16:15 |
| lcuk | RST38h, we know it costs battery life | 16:15 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Costs performance, costs battery life. OR costs $.10 added to your price tag | 16:16 |
| lcuk | no it doesnt | 16:16 |
| lcuk | your 0.10 fail wouldnt give me graphic control | 16:16 |
| dexen | RST38h: selling replacement batteries brings revenue :P | 16:16 |
| lcuk | that a simple gstreamer or similar graphic could do | 16:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: eh? ) | 16:16 |
| RST38h | Oh | 16:16 |
| lcuk | software filtering | 16:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You are talking of a completely different thing | 16:17 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, please, sound processing is nothing, when compared to graphics processing | 16:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: GST runs ON TOP of PA. We are not even talking GST | 16:17 |
| lcuk | really, you want to filter specific frequencies, a bandpass filter | 16:17 |
| RST38h | wolf: Depends on whether you are doing graphics processing or not right? Because sound processing you are doing 100% time right now | 16:17 |
| SpeedEvil | All I'm saying is that an optimised - especially on this hardware - filter - will use far under 10% of CPU | 16:17 |
| lcuk | ahh, so theres already sound filtering occuring? | 16:18 |
| lcuk | which could be changed to do the 0.10 filter you are discussing? | 16:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yes. In PA. To protect speakers. | 16:18 |
| lcuk | without wasting cpu | 16:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: right on target | 16:18 |
| dexen | xD | 16:18 |
| lcuk | without also buying a filter | 16:18 |
| lcuk | cos its happening now | 16:18 |
| RST38h | correct | 16:18 |
| lcuk | so why are you wanting to add hardware | 16:19 |
| mikhas | so what was the problem again? | 16:19 |
| pupnik | and has been discussed to death here | 16:19 |
| lcuk | im thinking that | 16:19 |
| lcuk | rst was fighting that he wanted to put a filter on something | 16:19 |
| mikhas | and remove or PA, or such? | 16:19 |
| mikhas | s/or// | 16:19 |
| infobot | mikhas meant: and remove PA, or such? | 16:19 |
| RST38h | mikhas: Make it optional at least | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | removing PA and the filter are orthogonal. | 16:19 |
| RST38h | yes, they are independent | 16:19 |
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| mikhas | optional, lol ... | 16:19 |
| * lcuk just wants pretty graphic lines | 16:19 | |
| RST38h | But with hw filter in place, you will be able to bypass PA harmlessly | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | As the filter can be optimised much better than it is on this hardware. | 16:20 |
| pupnik | you can bypass PA and filter now | 16:20 |
| * lcuk wiggles the bass one | 16:20 | |
| SpeedEvil | Not on PA | 16:20 |
| pupnik | you can bypass PA and filter now | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It is currently harmless. | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Tehre is no damage. | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It just sounds bad. | 16:20 |
| mikhas | so dont do it | 16:20 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Once again: when you do something in sw, there is a lower bound of operations you have to perform | 16:20 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Usually, it is the number of memory accesses you have to make | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Yes - and if it's coming from mp3 - you can do the filtering in frequency space. | 16:21 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: So, even if you simply read audio data and write it back as it is, that will be 88kB/s | 16:21 |
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| * lcuk curls up in a ball and goes writing stuff | 16:21 | |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: What makes you think it is coming from mp3? | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Given that the device can push 12M/s to the SD card, I'm not seeing a huge issue at 88K | 16:22 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, and displaying something on the screen is 800*480*2*30 = 23 MB/s | 16:22 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, so why the drama? | 16:22 |
| Damion2 | can you search the scrollback in irssi? my bing searches are returning much use | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | !logs | 16:22 |
| RST38h | wolf: Displaying sometihing on the screen is not done by your CPU | 16:22 |
| w00t | Damion2: try looking at /help lastlog | 16:22 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, rotfl | 16:22 |
| Damion2 | w00t: ta | 16:22 |
| RST38h | wolf: Audio processing is done on the same CPU where you are running your apps | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | can be done on the same... | 16:23 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, wow, really? | 16:23 |
| wolf^ | please | 16:23 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Yes, it can, on Atari2600 at least :) | 16:23 |
| RST38h | wolf: Keywords: PulseAudio. Google for it. | 16:23 |
| lcuk | errr rst, you are aware the cpu is implicitely involved in practically everything you see | 16:24 |
| Damion2 | yeah that'll do /lastlog damion and then I have a timestamp to PgUp to | 16:24 |
| lcuk | without its hard work you would have barely a blank screen | 16:24 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, i do actually make games with software renderers, so please, don't tell me what my cpu is doing | 16:24 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Implicitely, not explicitely | 16:24 |
| lcuk | it draws the lines and floodfills and blits | 16:24 |
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| RST38h | wolf: Then you know that pushing that frame buffer out is done on autopilot | 16:24 |
| lcuk | and the text | 16:25 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, pushing the framebuffer to lcd, yes, it can hog the bus though | 16:25 |
| RST38h | wolf: Correct, except that it has got time slots allocated for it, and your CPU is left with whatever remains | 16:25 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, but you have to update the framebuffer too, and assumming you're not using gpu, that's done by cpu | 16:25 |
| RST38h | wolf: And at that time, do you want someone else "hog the bus" filtering your audio, in sw? | 16:26 |
| RST38h | wolf: Also hogging your cpu itself, also causing context switches, etc | 16:26 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, afaik, just scrolling the screen with current way of doing things (gtk) is pure cpu | 16:26 |
| RST38h | wolf: You are not scrolling the screen all the time. Audio filtering is done all the time there is audio. | 16:27 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, my point is that amount of time spent on sound processing is insignificant when compared to graphics processing | 16:27 |
| RST38h | Anyways, if you feel it is worth $.10, that is fine :) | 16:27 |
| lcuk | could i ask at what point this matters | 16:27 |
| RST38h | wolf: Run HTOP, find PA, check what the amount is. | 16:27 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, yes, i know, it's too much for me | 16:27 |
| RST38h | lcuk: high-perf apps that need as much cpu as possible (emulators, 3d games) | 16:28 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: battery life when playing audio of any kind | 16:28 |
| * VDVsx yawns | 16:28 | |
| * lcuk carefully aims and throws a snowball into VDVsx's open mouth | 16:28 | |
| RST38h | bullseye! | 16:29 |
| mikhas | ok, stop. my battery life is excellent when all I do is listening to AAC's | 16:29 |
| * lcuk reasserts he asked nokia to slow down the n900 in the past | 16:30 | |
| lcuk | the damned thing runs too fast | 16:30 |
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| VDVsx | lol | 16:30 |
| * VDVsx sends a samsung phone to lcuk | 16:30 | |
| thresh | lcuk: you cant catch it in the mornings? | 16:30 |
| lcuk | thresh, no | 16:30 |
| lcuk | the first time i saw my app i was blown away | 16:31 |
| lcuk | liqflow runs at 60fps | 16:31 |
| lcuk | and the other apps arent far behind | 16:31 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, did you saw a video where someone opens 32 apps in the n900 ? :D | 16:31 |
| lcuk | yeah VDVsx | 16:31 |
| lcuk | it kicks ass | 16:32 |
| Damion2 | I spend most of my time just using ssh in a terminal I don't need 600MHz for that | 16:32 |
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| lcuk | Damion2, yeah | 16:32 |
| lcuk | and most of hte time it doesnt | 16:32 |
| lcuk | it clocks down nicely | 16:32 |
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| Damion2 | oh good | 16:32 |
| lcuk | theres been a lot of work on the device to streamline and optimize performance | 16:33 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: also. For a 'filter' like you're talking about - a RC filter - for a stereo 22k stream - you need a total of 44000 multiply/accumulates a second. | 16:33 |
| lcuk | RST38h might have a valid point about PA | 16:33 |
| SpeedEvil | This is not a significant number. | 16:33 |
| lcuk | which could be examined | 16:33 |
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| lcuk | to try and see if we can shave more off | 16:33 |
| lcuk | but the current featureset is certain entirely usable for whole categories of apps | 16:33 |
| lcuk | kickass games and fun toys and desktop apps ahoy | 16:34 |
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| RST38h | SpeedEvil: that makes things worse | 16:34 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 16:34 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: given that multiplies are kinda expensive | 16:34 |
| * Trizt wish the n900 could cook | 16:34 | |
| lcuk | RST38h, do your emulators run well on n8x0 | 16:34 |
| lcuk | Trizt, lol | 16:35 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yea | 16:35 |
| Damion2 | I put an idle off script in my ip-up.d to check the state of keyboard away, ssh not running... I like getting >24hrs use | 16:35 |
| lcuk | its got a bacon rack | 16:35 |
| lcuk | RST38h, do they run better on n900 | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: you do know that mp3 decoding - say - is doing several thousand times that? | 16:35 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Slightly not by much | 16:35 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I can no longer use hw scaling on n900 which evens things out | 16:35 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: I have no idea what mp3 has to do with it | 16:35 |
| lcuk | so just taking unscaled | 16:35 |
| lcuk | is it faster | 16:36 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I guess faster. I am limitign it to 60fps though. | 16:36 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, again, comparing the cost of decoding given amount of samples, to filtering them | 16:36 |
| lcuk | RST38h, ok | 16:36 |
| lcuk | you said the old ioctls dont work | 16:36 |
| RST38h | wolf: I am not playing mp3s. I am playing audio. | 16:36 |
| lcuk | for hardware scaling | 16:36 |
| lcuk | RST38h, lets look specifically at getting you the hardware scaling back | 16:36 |
| RST38h | lcuk: They should not, because they were using Blizzard hw | 16:36 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, out of thin air? | 16:36 |
| lcuk | or rather, what would be needed | 16:36 |
| Trizt | by the way, portmap, do you install it with apt-get or? | 16:36 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Looked at that already | 16:37 |
| lcuk | impossible? | 16:37 |
| RST38h | lcuk: HildonAnimationActor. Got it working. | 16:37 |
| lcuk | even though the system seems to do hardware scaling itself | 16:37 |
| lcuk | within the compositor at least | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: mp3 is an example. The device can do - of the order of - 300 million MACs a second. 44000 is _NOT_SIGNIFICANT_ | 16:37 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Completely possible, but does not look like it is very effective. | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: with the CPU only. | 16:37 |
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| lcuk | are you using it correctly | 16:37 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Ok. Optimize PA. | 16:37 |
| Damion2 | Trizt: last time I looked you needed a different to default repository. I just ran the binary from my arm bases nas | 16:37 |
| xorAxAx | does the n900 support conf calls? | 16:37 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Right now it is 8%. | 16:37 |
| lcuk | RST38h, your problem sir | 16:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Right. I'm not arguing PA isn't shit. | 16:38 |
| lcuk | you say n900 is faster | 16:38 |
| xorAxAx | does the n900 support conf calls? | 16:38 |
| RST38h | lcuk: What problem? | 16:38 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, do account cpu scaling in that | 16:38 |
| lcuk | best help for you and others is scaling | 16:38 |
| lcuk | because ive heard that from lots of apps | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I'm arguing that adding hardware as PA is shit is barking mad. | 16:38 |
| lcuk | people like javis and yourself and other game people | 16:38 |
| lcuk | mention not having it working | 16:38 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Nobody replacing whole PA with hardware. | 16:38 |
| Damion2 | xorAxAx: you don't have more than 1 friend to test ? ;) | 16:39 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: We were talking a freaking passive freq filter for $.10 | 16:39 |
| lcuk | RST38h, the audio hardware is sitting ok for many people | 16:39 |
| RST38h | To avoid having to go through PA | 16:39 |
| lcuk | the main hardware works well | 16:39 |
| lcuk | but scaling has been an issue | 16:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well I got HAA to work. It is messy as hell and I would greatly prefer a different API but it works | 16:39 |
| lcuk | and does it get hardware scaled? | 16:40 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Also it is not really hw scaling | 16:40 |
| Damion2 | xorAxAx: it supports call waiting at the phone<->carrier level. I don't recall if I had a conf/join option rather than just toggle | 16:40 |
| xorAxAx | ok, it doesnt support it | 16:41 |
| RST38h | lcuk: AFAIK, HAA transfers your whole window contents to the 3D chip as a pattern then draws rectnagular 3d primitive "skinned" into that pattern | 16:41 |
| Damion2 | xorAxAx: it might. I might have not noticed the button | 16:41 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: the passive filter of PA should not take more than .05% of CPU - to do the same as hardware. Adding hardware when you could spend the same on PA development - and recover that within the first hundred thousand or so phones - is utterly broken. | 16:41 |
| Trizt | anyone know a little bit of the kernel options in the kernel for n900? nfs4 support, that is disabled? (I miss /proc/config.gz) | 16:41 |
| xorAxAx | Damion2: i just checked | 16:41 |
| Damion2 | xorAxAx: ah | 16:41 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Ok, optimize PA and prove yourself right. | 16:41 |
| Damion2 | xorAxAx: what about in a skype call? | 16:41 |
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| xorAxAx | Damion2: i guess only when somebody else sets it up | 16:42 |
| Damion2 | maybe | 16:42 |
| RST38h | My guess is that 1) nobody is going to otimize or even fix PA and 2) even if someone does, it will still eat several percent of CPU | 16:42 |
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| Damion2 | I couldn't initite a video call, only worked if I was called | 16:43 |
| mikhas | well, let's talk about serious issues instead: what about emergency calls and sw that bypasses PA? does that ring a bell? | 16:43 |
| RST38h | no. | 16:43 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: no. The 'filter' in this case consists solely of out=oldout+(oldout-out)*k;oldout=out | 16:43 |
| Damion2 | Trizt: you need v4 specific stuff? | 16:43 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: this is simple enough that it does not need proof. | 16:43 |
| Damion2 | xorAxAx: I couldn't initite a video call, only worked if I was called | 16:43 |
| Trizt | Damion2; yes, as the nfs server shares only out nfs4 | 16:43 |
| xorAxAx | Damion2: thats bad | 16:43 |
| Damion2 | Trizt: ah | 16:44 |
| Damion2 | xorAxAx: it's a missing feature, or poor ui kssue | 16:44 |
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| Trizt | Damion2; feels a bit strange that there is support for ext4 but not nfs4 which has been in the kernel far longer | 16:44 |
| Damion2 | xorAxAx: ooh that reminds me, I need to test switching nodes in /dev/video* and seeing if vid call works with the higher res cam | 16:45 |
| Damion2 | ext4! | 16:45 |
| Damion2 | I wonder about the whole nat vs compileoptions problem. I know any module can overwrite fairly arbitrary kernel syscalls. So I wonder if somebody could actually insmod a hackittowork.ko which overrode the non compatible options, letting you .deb-wise package the nat stuff in not needing ppl to build a new kernel | 16:47 |
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| Trizt | mmm had been nice | 16:48 |
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| Damion2 | and also I've heard the drivers we have make it hard/not possible atm to update to a kernel with infrastructure support. I want that as my PSP won't network via adhoc | 16:49 |
| * Trizt thinks how to map the user user to be his standard user when talking with the nfs server, if there will someday be nfs4 support | 16:49 | |
| aep | where do i get glxinfo from? | 16:50 |
| * sp3000 goes skiing and doesn't randomly run ito zeenix | 16:51 | |
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| sp3000 | slacker! :P | 16:51 |
| Damion2 | aep: for simple X11 stuff, I've typically just ssh x forwarded to a st with them installed | 16:51 |
| * sp3000 waits for his hair to thaw | 16:51 | |
| aep | hmm not sure if that works with glx | 16:51 |
| aep | i'll try | 16:51 |
| aep | does dropbear even have x forward? | 16:52 |
| alterego | http://alterego.metapath.org/images/tablets/Screenshot-20100124-144841.png - UI for my Call Firewall settings plugin | 16:52 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, http://pastebin.com/m2c6249ac | 16:52 |
| Damion2 | Trizt: um? that's an nfs4 thing? I thought that was always handled in the getent-y/bind side of things with nis/krb5 etc? | 16:52 |
| * Trizt wonders why swedish meat is of so low quality | 16:52 | |
| wolf^ | RST38h, compile that and run on n900 using "time" to see how much time is required to filter one hour of audio data | 16:52 |
| Damion2 | aep: I was surprised to see it work with xrandr | 16:53 |
| Damion2 | aep: openssh is in the stock repositries | 16:53 |
| Trizt | Damion2; there are some different ways to do it, much depends on what support you have in the kernel | 16:53 |
| * RST38h sighs | 16:53 | |
| Damion2 | and dropbear might anyway | 16:53 |
| zeenix | sp3000: yeah, i am busy releasing rygel :) | 16:53 |
| RST38h | wolf: Do you have any idea how PA works? | 16:53 |
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| wolf^ | RST38h, not really | 16:54 |
| RST38h | alterego: Call Blocking would be better, given the userbase | 16:54 |
| Damion2 | aep: xset worked picking up a local fontpath too. and xdpyinfo, so yeah I suspect... hold on | 16:54 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, but you're bashing about low pass filtering and about replacing it with some cheapo hardware | 16:54 |
| RST38h | wolf: Ok. You start by writing audio into a socket or a pipe. | 16:54 |
| GAN900 | alterego, seems like there could be better widgets for the lists. | 16:54 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, i agree with you that pa takes too much cpu time | 16:55 |
| RST38h | wold: Your audio goes through the kernel and is directed to pa daemon | 16:55 |
| alterego | GAN900: that's just a button that opens the list editor. | 16:55 |
| RST38h | wolf: Which collects audio streams from multiple sockets, mixes them, filters them, and send them to ALSA | 16:55 |
| Damion2 | aep: okay maybe not: Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display "localhost:12.0". | 16:55 |
| RST38h | wolf: Result: 8% CPU | 16:55 |
| aep | Damion2: yeah | 16:55 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, that was how i saw it working | 16:55 |
| alterego | RST38h: how do you mean "Call Blocking"? | 16:55 |
| RST38h | wolf: Now, you can apply all kinds of funny math, but if you are using PA, this is the path audio follows | 16:56 |
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| alterego | RST38h: Do you just mean the naming? :) | 16:56 |
| RST38h | wolf: And the cost of that is 8% right now | 16:56 |
| RST38h | alterego: Just the naming | 16:56 |
| RST38h | alterego | 16:56 |
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| aep | maybe the X on the n900 doesnt have glx at all | 16:56 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, and it has to follow it, if you want to have sounds from two applications (like media player and system sounds) mixed | 16:56 |
| alterego | Hah, RST38h I think I do actually agree with you. Anyone else got an opinion? | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | wolf: Not necessarily | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | wolf: But right now, PA does not even allow to have sounds from two applications | 16:57 |
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| wolf^ | RST38h, i don't suppose n900 hw can mix sounds, given that on pc whole two cards can mix audio without sw assistance | 16:57 |
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| wolf^ | RST38h, (sb live, sb xfi) | 16:57 |
| RST38h | wolf: Your second app becomes mute and then hangs on exit until you shut down the first app | 16:57 |
| RST38h | wolf: The current AC97 audio can normally do 4 channels in hardware | 16:57 |
| RST38h | Actually, AC97 is not "current" any longer :) | 16:57 |
| GAN900 | alterego, I know, but I still think there's a better widget. | 16:58 |
| wolf^ | RST38h, maybe there was some progress, but i still see some "dmix" or other crap like pulseaudio that i was happy to avoid | 16:58 |
| Damion2 | aep: oh maybe | 16:59 |
| alterego | GAN900: well, if you can think of it let me know ;) I don't want to put the list in that dialog, because the lists could potentially get quite large. | 16:59 |
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| wolf^ | RST38h, anyway, do we even know there is some filtering in pulseaudio happening, or is it tmo "everyone knows it" knowledge? | 17:01 |
| RST38h | yes we do | 17:02 |
| pupnik | i am happy to see such interest in the sound | 17:02 |
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| dagb | anyone here who cares to enlighten me about n900 battery capacity? | 17:03 |
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| oscillik | 1320mHa | 17:03 |
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| dagb | oscillik: :-) and that'll provide a useful gadget for how long until you need to recharge it? | 17:04 |
| oscillik | dagb: depends on how much you use said "useful gadget" | 17:05 |
| oscillik | :) | 17:05 |
| oscillik | and if you have any apps installed that eat up CPU cycles | 17:05 |
| oscillik | and if you're running apps in the background constantly | 17:05 |
| oscillik | etc | 17:05 |
| dagb | just reading some experiences now, seeing people claim they need to charge it twice a day. | 17:05 |
| oscillik | like i said - depends on how you use it | 17:06 |
| dagb | which appears a bit excessive. | 17:06 |
| aep | i do, if i work on it | 17:06 |
| oscillik | i can go a whole day without needing to charge | 17:06 |
| aep | but then i use a lot of cpu | 17:06 |
| aep | but when i just use it like a normal "phone", ie maybe make one or two calls, it lasts one and a half day | 17:06 |
| dagb | oscillik: what is your "typical" usage pattern then? | 17:06 |
| pupnik | aep described it well | 17:07 |
| oscillik | typical usage pattern - no background apps running, Nokia Messaging pulling my emails all day, occasional web browsing during breaks at work, then instant messaging when i get home | 17:07 |
| alterego | I guess there's no contact list widget I can use to select a contact? I'm going to ha ve to implement my own and make it look as close to the inbuilt one as I can? | 17:07 |
| oscillik | also quite some web browsing while at home too | 17:07 |
| RST38h | battery life has become pretty decent, amusingly | 17:08 |
| villager | alterego: libosso-abook provides a widget | 17:08 |
| javispedro | pr1.2? | 17:08 |
| dagb | oscillik: have you tried to figure out how much email pulling cost you in terms of battery life? | 17:08 |
| alterego | villager, thanks. No abook support in pymaemo >:( | 17:08 |
| javispedro | er.. pr1.1? | 17:08 |
| RST38h | yes, watching an HDTV movie will drain battery in a few hours, but otherwise it goes through a day | 17:08 |
| oscillik | dagb: nope i haven't | 17:08 |
| dagb | RST38h: as a result of tweaked software, or by hw design? | 17:08 |
| aep | i get pretty decent results with powertop when the phone is idle (screen black) | 17:09 |
| villager | alterego: hm, guess you're out of luck then, unless someone adds abook support | 17:09 |
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| aep | quite suprising conidered how many dameons run on this | 17:10 |
| alterego | villager: I believe it's inextras-devel. I'll probably just rewrite the UI in C. | 17:10 |
| javispedro | oh, you've been talking about PA? (*reads logs*) | 17:10 |
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| alterego | Might make a mock test list for prototyping, thenreimplement it in C. | 17:10 |
| pupnik | id like to see a hardware hacker make a mini battery to let you swap batteries without reboot | 17:10 |
| dagb | aep: what runtime does powertop estimate with a freshly charged battery then? | 17:11 |
| pupnik | useless to estimate | 17:11 |
| aep | dagb: dunno, i couldnt get that to work | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: its possible actually. i did a reconnect in r and d mode | 17:11 |
| pupnik | Stskeeps: with usb power*? | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: while on charger | 17:11 |
| * oscillik laughs at attempts to quantify battery life on a mobile computer :D | 17:12 | |
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| aep | why not? got to compare _something_ | 17:12 |
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| zerojay | I got 4 hours last night just having IM open on 2g. | 17:13 |
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| zerojay | With no use. | 17:13 |
| aep | although, if battery life is top priority, i wouldnt recommend the n900. .. | 17:13 |
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| javispedro | hm... is the PA filtering stuff OSS? | 17:13 |
| aep | or any phone with that hardware | 17:13 |
| javispedro | did someone get to see the code of that? | 17:13 |
| lcuk | zerojay, then you know something was wrong | 17:13 |
| oscillik | if battery life is a top priority, don't get any kind of smartphone - that also goes for Symbian handsets | 17:13 |
| aep | yeah | 17:13 |
| LuserN800 | does the kernel also have the debug info so that powertop shows the tasks? | 17:13 |
| LuserN800 | and what about latencytop? | 17:13 |
| dagb | aep: I appreciate your advice. | 17:13 |
| aep | LuserN800: no | 17:14 |
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| lcuk | LuserN800, discuss on the -dev mailing list | 17:14 |
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| dagb | although I have a 6110 navigator which works well for me. | 17:14 |
| LuserN800 | aep, ah too bad | 17:14 |
| zerojay | lcuk: Something was wrong... but I didn't see anything wrong. No unusual processes, CPU load stayed low. | 17:14 |
| lcuk | proximity to google devices? | 17:14 |
| aep | heh | 17:15 |
| zerojay | lol.. what? | 17:15 |
| lcuk | that raises my heckles | 17:15 |
| javispedro | it's an autoprotetction feature. | 17:15 |
| zerojay | are you serious? | 17:15 |
| * lcuk is laughin heartily | 17:15 | |
| aep | frequent band switches cause quite some battery drain | 17:16 |
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| aep | oh you said on 2g | 17:16 |
| villager | 3g is major battery hog for me | 17:17 |
| lcuk | i dont notice | 17:18 |
| villager | these days I'm always running around with it off | 17:18 |
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| lcuk | downloasding lots of data and displaying and using in browser with flash and everything is the hog | 17:18 |
| Damion2 | I last about 2 days with some minor sshing | 17:18 |
| villager | could be the poor and patchy 3g coverage around here | 17:18 |
| lcuk | cos usually the act of downloading a lot of data involves a lot of processing | 17:18 |
| Damion2 | but it only lasts about 3-4 hours if I play heavily or read all my email in an evening | 17:18 |
| Damion2 | I leave 3g on for calls/sms rather than locking to 2g | 17:19 |
| lcuk | speaking of batteries | 17:19 |
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| lcuk | my laptop is about to die | 17:19 |
| pupnik | x86 ftl | 17:19 |
| lcuk | meanwhile stack of n900s is goin strong | 17:19 |
| ShadowJK | in my experience low traffic in bytes spread out evenly over a long period of time seems to use about as much as downloading at 5mbit/s on 3g... | 17:19 |
| villager | well my phone is configured with skype so when I'm on 3g it keeps trying to keep the connection alive I suppose | 17:19 |
| aep | my eepc lasts longer then my n900 :P | 17:20 |
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| ShadowJK | in other words, irc and im is brutal on 3g.. | 17:20 |
| lcuk | aep, and your eeepc has a battery thats larger than the n900 itself no doubt | 17:20 |
| oscillik | aep: so does mine. but my EeePC is a 1000HE, so it outlasts most laptops out there anyway, including MacBook Pros | 17:20 |
| aep | lcuk: exactly | 17:20 |
| aep | 5200mA | 17:20 |
| oscillik | mine is 8700mA | 17:20 |
| Kegetys | to remove the startup video, is it safe to just remove /etc/hildon-welcome.d/default.conf or should it be replaced with something blank ? | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | yeah and skype probably consumes lots of power on 3g too due to its p2p properties | 17:20 |
| lcuk | give the n900 that battery and see which lasts longest | 17:20 |
| villager | ShadowJK: what about being connected to skype and stuff, though idle? | 17:20 |
| javispedro | so PA on the N900 has 6 sinks. the null sink, alsa "hw0" RX51 (tlv320aic3x)", "voice.raw" (connected to hw0), "voice" (connected to hw0), "music" (connected to voice.raw), and alsa hw:1 (bt audio seems) | 17:21 |
| lcuk | or rather, give the eeepc the n900s battery | 17:21 |
| aep | lcuk: i wish it was possible. i woudlnt mind if they had double the battery size | 17:21 |
| lcuk | aep we had extended batteries on the n810 | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | villager: atleast msn supposedly sends lots of stuff when idle. probably skype too | 17:21 |
| lcuk | im sure its possible somehow on the n900 | 17:21 |
| oscillik | lcuk: Mugen are apparently working on an extended battery for the N900 | 17:21 |
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| aep | not enough room i guess. although i woulndt be bothered by 1m more | 17:22 |
| ShadowJK | and my Voip provider has a keepalive of about 5 seconds, which pretty much keeps the 3g radio on constantly with my operator | 17:22 |
| lcuk | :D | 17:22 |
| Damion2 | Kegetys: # out the 2nd line with the video | 17:22 |
| pupnik | fat battery and new back cover would be fun | 17:22 |
| Kegetys | I wouldn't mind a extra bulge on the back cover since the camera lens already has one, so could as well be that thick everywhere for a larger battery | 17:22 |
| lcuk | yeah it would pupnik | 17:22 |
| ShadowJK | the key isn't in the amount of data or amount of processing... the key is in wakeups | 17:22 |
| Kegetys | Damion2: thanks | 17:22 |
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| lcuk | Kegetys, yeah | 17:22 |
| Damion2 | well that's what I did. you might be okay, but playing with startu stuff I'd be very careful | 17:22 |
| aep | Kegetys: it would even make the back flat! | 17:22 |
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| lcuk | even moreso, it could be a metal one, like n8x0 | 17:23 |
| lcuk | 810 | 17:23 |
| lcuk | which would be thinner | 17:23 |
| lcuk | so giving more room | 17:23 |
| aep | that would be nice | 17:23 |
| Kegetys | too bad the back cover has the lens cover though, probably difficult to manufacture a copy of it for anyone else than nokia | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | the extended cover for n810 was plastic :( | 17:23 |
| lcuk | im betting the principle issue atm is the camera cover | 17:23 |
| lcuk | craves1 sold metal one didnt he? | 17:23 |
| Damion2 | the phone is already well think. but I would like more battery...hmm | 17:23 |
| mavhc | maemo 4, is there a way to reset the database of media files the Media Player uses? it's not finding ones that exist, and finding ones that don't exist | 17:23 |
| lcuk | mavhc, i believe tracker can be told to reindex | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | well they could make it a plastic window and add the thing that makes it think camea cover is constantly open | 17:24 |
| lcuk | but i cant remember the incantation off hand | 17:24 |
| oscillik | lcuk: yes because the cover mechanism is handling activation of the camera | 17:24 |
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| oscillik | that's what those white and black squares are on the inside of the cover | 17:24 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd try restart metalayer-crawler | 17:24 |
| pupnik | yep, not a trivial mod | 17:24 |
| javispedro | sdl streams are connected to sink "music" | 17:24 |
| pupnik | sdl has broken sound buffer negotiation with alsa. i donate 50 eu to a fix. | 17:25 |
| lcuk | id prefer a clear writeup of the problem and reasoning for getting it fixed | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | the only hope to fix anything interfacing with alsa is hope an alsa developer tries to use it and goes fix it | 17:26 |
| ShadowJK | that's how mplayer's alsa code became usable | 17:26 |
| Damion2 | bluetooth audio also buggy, I'll donate €50 | 17:26 |
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| javispedro | ShadowJK: the only other possible way is to start ranting alsa and make your own interfacing the new standard, which is how PA is becoming usable ;) | 17:27 |
| lcuk | remote undo kicks ass | 17:27 |
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| ShadowJK | javispedro: Well, it still requires that someone alsa teaches pulse to talk with alsa.. | 17:28 |
| ShadowJK | and pulse atm still has about as much bugs as alsa+dmix, but it's improving | 17:29 |
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| Damion2 | oss came back with a vengence | 17:30 |
| pupnik | lcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=442596&postcount=6 how sdl-alsa fails at buffer setting for alsa hw device | 17:30 |
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| Damion2 | where I work tens of thousands of linux desktops all had the recommendation to kill PA | 17:30 |
| pupnik | why is the text centered btw | 17:31 |
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| dotblank | Ugh I really wish I had a google voice account to test on the n900... | 17:31 |
| Damion2 | talking of battery. most nokias I've owned showed 100% full for qbout the first 50%. then started dropping down. n900 is more like a laptop with immediate indication | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | it's funny, oss has alsa emulation these days :) | 17:32 |
| Damion2 | this phsycological trick would work well | 17:32 |
| Damion2 | dotblank: can't you? | 17:33 |
| oscillik | Damion2: not the experience i've had with my Nokia phones. those being 7650, 9500 Communicator, 7610, E90 Communicator, N900 | 17:33 |
| ShadowJK | Damion2: most nokias drop the first bar at 50% battery. N900 is slightly more linear but not much :) | 17:33 |
| dotblank | google voice is invite only :( | 17:33 |
| Damion2 | dotblank: ahh | 17:33 |
| oscillik | google voice is also US only | 17:34 |
| ShadowJK | N8x0 went from 4 to 3 bars when it thinks battery is at 50 percent, for example | 17:34 |
| ShadowJK | My nokia e75 is similar :) | 17:34 |
| * RST38h wants /dev/dsp | 17:34 | |
| RST38h | Screw PA. Screw DMix. Screw ALSA. | 17:35 |
| RST38h | Last audio API that worked was /dev/dsp. | 17:35 |
| javispedro | I kinda liked esound's awful simplicity. | 17:35 |
| Damion2 | oscillik: I've had 5110, 9000, 9110, 9210, 9500, 9300, e90 and n97 | 17:35 |
| ShadowJK | I think it started when people got the habbit of bragging "I had my new phone 3 days and it still shows full battery, awesome!", so nokia made it show full longer :) | 17:35 |
| javispedro | (you still need a sound mixing daemon unless you're one of those who want kernel mixing) | 17:36 |
| RST38h | javis: Except that esound has never been documnted :) | 17:36 |
| RST38h | javis: But yes, esound is just like PA, only less | 17:36 |
| oscillik | Damion2: i guess we're using our phones quite differently then :-s | 17:36 |
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| RST38h | javis: I want either hw mixing or kernel mixing | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: that's like "last audio if that worked was 'MOV A, $AD' " | 17:37 |
| aep | esound <3 | 17:37 |
| RST38h | javis: At this point, I doubt that mixing in the kernel will make things worse. | 17:37 |
| javispedro | oh, I want hw mixing too. | 17:37 |
| javispedro | kernel mixing, on the other side... | 17:37 |
| RST38h | javis: AC97 defines 4 hw channels for mixing | 17:37 |
| aep | you cant have networked audio in kernel | 17:37 |
| RST38h | fuck networked audio. | 17:37 |
| pupnik | :) | 17:37 |
| RST38h | never used it, never will | 17:37 |
| aep | its awesome. | 17:37 |
| javispedro | RST38h: noone implements those or they suck | 17:37 |
| aep | i run esound on my router | 17:37 |
| javispedro | esound! simple! | 17:38 |
| javispedro | that's how it should be. | 17:38 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: I do the same thing with PA that I do with /dev/dsp or ALSA or ESound. | 17:38 |
| pupnik | RST38h: any interest in trying the straight to alsa implementation? you can code... | 17:38 |
| dexen | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6416 guys, any progress on this one? | 17:38 |
| povbot` | Bug 6416: Wifi won't connect until rebooted... | 17:38 |
| dexen | it really irks me -_- | 17:38 |
| javispedro | rst already has a alsa backend, at least on your emulib. | 17:38 |
| ShadowJK | I like the Sun Audio interface, espeially as implemented on NetBSD. It's a very clean interface, has everything you need for multimedia, and has adequate methods for lipsync. All these fancy alsa plugin chains and pulse tend to distort delay and buffer fill info to the point a-v sync becomes impossible or worse than esd, and esd gives you no information on delay to sync with video, it's dead reckoning... Sometimes making pure guesses works better than b | 17:39 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Last time I had to use ALSA, I ranted on this channel for 3 hours about executing every single Linux audio framework developer | 17:39 |
| ShadowJK | elieving the lies alsa and pulse tells you... sad :( | 17:39 |
| pupnik | hahahaha | 17:39 |
| RST38h | pupnik: With the bunch of ALSA people being first in line | 17:39 |
| pupnik | ok thanks i feel bettder now | 17:39 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: /dev/audio /dev/pcm and /dev/dsp are pretty much the same animal | 17:39 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Got somewhat different ioctl()s but not very different | 17:39 |
| ShadowJK | I don't know the linux /dev/dsp api, it has no man page :) | 17:40 |
| pupnik | mplayer and aplay can play gapless audio to n900 alsa hws.... | 17:40 |
| javispedro | yep, snes9x targeted them all in the same 300-locish file. | 17:40 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: check /dev/pcm in NetBSD, same thing | 17:40 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Outside of reference implementation on PC, ALSA never works | 17:41 |
| aep | what do you need a manpage for? its just a device :P | 17:41 |
| ShadowJK | the awesomest thing with netbsd is you can change bugger parameters from shell with sysctl :) | 17:41 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Because the API is huge and SB-specific | 17:41 |
| pupnik | i just need to copy that implementation using the bill gates technique of copypasta programming | 17:41 |
| dexen | aep: if an API cant' be sufficiently described on a manpage, it's design is broken | 17:41 |
| dexen | aep: so at least it's a good measure :P | 17:41 |
| dexen | measurement*, even | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: wrong. ALSA works on Openmoko for instance | 17:42 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: Define "works" | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | even dmix does | 17:42 |
| RST38h | I mean, I also made ALSA "work" on EALinux, but experimentally finding just the right set of options | 17:43 |
| RST38h | s/but/by | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: define !works and I'll tell you TRUe / FALSE | 17:43 |
| RST38h | !works: you try to do things slightly different than the code in aplay and it crashes | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least "works" doesn't imply it magically beams the knowledge about correct usage to your mind. I admit ALSA is a bitch to understand and comes with crappy or no docs at all | 17:44 |
| javispedro | argh | 17:45 |
| javispedro | the maemo pulseaudio is heavily patched. | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | for me "works" means there are ways tpo get the audio you want. It doesn't mean there are no ways to bork it | 17:46 |
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| RST38h | DocScrut: It is not only bitch to understand, it is also badly implemented on anything outside of PC (where reference implementation exists) | 17:47 |
| oscillik | i think i'm going to put on a record | 17:47 |
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| RST38h | So, you can define thinsg the way you like, but to me ALSA is a barely functioning pile of guano | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | for me PA applies to that statement | 17:49 |
| RST38h | Agreed | 17:49 |
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| RST38h | PA has got a single advantage over ALSA | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ONE! | 17:49 |
| RST38h | It has got ESD-like "simple" API that allows you to ignore the rest of the beast | 17:49 |
| RST38h | And the simple API kinda works. Except that it does not work right on Maemo :) | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a pseudo advantage | 17:50 |
| RST38h | yea | 17:50 |
| RST38h | But to me as an app programmer it is importanr | 17:50 |
| cvandonderen | is it possible to use Qt OpenGL with MADDE? it gives error about not being able to link: cannot find -lEGL | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | the ONE real advantage is you can switch devices on the fly, while the interface is in use by an app | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: honestly, as an app coder I prefer to ignore audio API idiosyncrasies | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | all app should be audio API agnostic as much as possible | 17:51 |
| * w00t hugs QtMultimedia and runs | 17:51 | |
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| dpro | hi | 17:52 |
| javispedro | cvandonderen: I kinda remember EGL is not in MADDE. | 17:52 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: Simple PA API lets you do that | 17:52 |
| javispedro | cvandonderen: If you have a device you might be able to grab those from the device. | 17:52 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: But as I said, it is also broken on Maemo | 17:52 |
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| cvandonderen | javispedro: okay, but how? I have debian setup with all dev libs | 17:52 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: When someone is playing audio, you cannot and your app will hang on exit | 17:53 |
| cvandonderen | but I run MADDE from Windows | 17:53 |
| javispedro | cvandonderen: that's why I said libs from device, not sbox :) | 17:53 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: ping | 17:53 |
| dpro | anyone knows what else there is to get sound from pygame on an n900 ? mixer.init, music.load, music.play which works on my laptop doesn't do anything on the n900 ... no errors either though ... | 17:53 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: Actual cause is PA's audio thread hanging on startup waiting for some resource and not even processing quit-now flag | 17:53 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: you were going to pop me some information about date/time locale formatting | 17:53 |
| cvandonderen | javispedro: just copy those .so files over? | 17:53 |
| javispedro | cvandonderen: just try getting /usr/lib/libEGL.so* and /usr/lib/libGLES_v2.so* from device and putting in the respective MADDE lib folder (Which I don't know, since I don't use MADDE) | 17:53 |
| cvandonderen | okay | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: heh. So PA's *only* advantage turns out to be a bug in the end. Great | 17:54 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: I have an additional complication which you might know something about also, currency locale.. I don't know if it's possible, but I'd rather not force the user to manually pick a currency | 17:54 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: no. PA's advantage is a simple to use API that can be implemented even under Windows (and has been done) | 17:54 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: Well it does let you play audio as long as nobody else does | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | winWHAT???? | 17:54 |
| dpro | oh and while I'm here my gps (when asked from python) reports my location approx. 300km off ... any idea what I'm doing wrong ? | 17:54 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: ah yes | 17:54 |
| timeless_mbp | currencies are fun | 17:55 |
| timeless_mbp | so, i'd suggest you not bother | 17:55 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Hey maybe I should push EMULib audio API as the next big thing then? :) | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with a simple alsa_open('mydev') ??? | 17:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | when the user enters the first value, let the user enter a currency symbol | 17:55 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Simple (2 functions). Runs on everything. | 17:55 |
| timeless_mbp | remember it. | 17:55 |
| ShadowJK | dpro: sounds like it's only figuring out the country you're in | 17:55 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: haha. two options; then - either I make them pick a currency, or I ignore currency totally - I'm favouring the former | 17:55 |
| *** Testis is now known as FIQ | 17:55 | |
| javispedro | RST38h: hehe | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: how much simpler will this get under PA? | 17:55 |
| dpro | ShadowJK: oddly enough the camery knows exactly where I am when I take a pic ... | 17:55 |
| LuserN800 | http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png :) | 17:56 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: seriously though, i'm willing to type a $ when i enter my first amount | 17:56 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: what? | 17:56 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: mhm | 17:56 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 17:56 | |
| w00t | currency and fixing date formatting to be locale dependant are the last two minor issues I have before it's effectively production ready, after that, I want to do graphing, statistics, and a few other "wow, that's pretty" things, but they can all wait | 17:57 |
| timeless_mbp | hold on | 17:57 |
| * w00t nods | 17:57 | |
| * timeless_mbp needs to find the bug | 17:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | iirc it's in MfE | 17:58 |
| w00t | heh | 17:58 |
| w00t | I remember it having some problems, yes | 17:59 |
| ShadowJK | dpro: the first info it gets would be the country code from the gsm/3g network, then it would try look up the CellID online to get a 20km accurate position, if the cell tower is in the database. It's try download assistance data online, satellite orbits and such, feed that to the gps chip and start it. Outdoors with good assistance data (supposedly it doesn't work on t-mobile for some reason) it gets real gps fix in about 5 seconds. Without assistance t | 17:59 |
| ShadowJK | he gps can take 30secs to 5 minutes to get a real lock, and almost certainly wont get one indoors or in difficult terrain | 17:59 |
| ShadowJK | location test ui is nice for testing the gps | 17:59 |
| cvandonderen | javispedro: yay, works, thanks | 17:59 |
| dpro | ShadowJK: ah cheers, I'll need to do some more testing ... | 17:59 |
| javispedro | cvandonderen: nice to kno | 18:00 |
| javispedro | w | 18:00 |
| lcuk | javispedro, :D http://liqbase.net/liq.liqbase.multi.sketch.S6003750.JPG | 18:00 |
| javispedro | lcuk: ah... triangles! | 18:01 |
| lcuk | lol hahaha yeah | 18:01 |
| lcuk | i didnt realise! | 18:01 |
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| ShadowJK | dpro: Basically, "normal" operation is that it gets course lock at first that gets better with time | 18:02 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: actually, I think that using Qt's date formatting instead of python's strftime() nonsense might automatically give me locale independant date/time info | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | it won't solve your problem | 18:04 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: they do automatically convert 12-24hour at least, according to the documentation | 18:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | 5usd by paypal to 1usd of yours by the same says it doesn't respect our clock settings | 18:04 |
| w00t | haha, no deal, I'm not guarenteeing it does, just saying that it *might* | 18:05 |
| w00t | I'm going to experiment with it anyway, since this is supposed to be a Qt application, so I should do it the Right Way | 18:05 |
| cvandonderen | javispedro: well: when I copy the deb to device:: QEglContext::defaultDisplay(): Cannot initialize EGL display: "Bad alloc (0x3003)" | 18:05 |
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| cvandonderen | or is that another error? | 18:05 |
| javispedro | cvandonderen: dunno, never seen that in n900. | 18:07 |
| cvandonderen | okay | 18:07 |
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| mikhas | w00t, use QLocale. | 18:09 |
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| w00t | mikhas: mhm | 18:10 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 18:10 | |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: had I taken that bet, you'd have won | 18:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't bet | 18:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i win :) | 18:14 |
| w00t | QLocale::timeFormat() doesn't respect 24-12 hour format | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd need QMaemoLocale :) | 18:15 |
| * w00t writes a note to bug a Qt person | 18:15 | |
| javispedro | ah.. | 18:15 |
| w00t | I'm having such a fun weekend finding other people's bugs as a result of trying to write my own code | 18:16 |
| javispedro | :) | 18:16 |
| w00t | I found a crash in pyside last night | 18:16 |
| javispedro | maemohell, someone said to me a few months ago | 18:16 |
| dotblank | wow gradius plays perfect on the n900.. its crazy | 18:18 |
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| RST38h | which gradius? | 18:19 |
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| javispedro | hm.. | 18:21 |
| lcuk | w00t, cool | 18:21 |
| lcuk | fix some of them whilst you are there | 18:21 |
| w00t | lcuk: I'm reporting them | 18:21 |
| javispedro | can anyone reproduce the infamous Maemo PA bug using pasuspender? | 18:21 |
| javispedro | hm.. | 18:22 |
| w00t | lcuk: I won't try fix them now, because I have my own work to do, I might once I've got enough time to try build pyside myself | 18:22 |
| lcuk | w00t, as a dev its your sworn duty to try to fix bugs and send patches along with reports! | 18:22 |
| w00t | haha | 18:22 |
| w00t | I thought it was my sworn duty to be a pain in the ass to developers | 18:22 |
| lcuk | you do that often enough and they write code specifically to trip you up | 18:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: BTW, have you tried HAA vs no-HAA without frame limiter? | 18:23 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I think I know what causes the hangup in PA | 18:23 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 18:23 | |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: ? | 18:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I just know what causes it. Done some tracing. | 18:23 |
| javispedro | patch 0088 in PA | 18:23 |
| w00t | lcuk: well used to it by now :P | 18:24 |
| RST38h | URL? | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: i'm looking for a bug in bugs.maemo.org that talks about showing a 24 hour clock | 18:24 |
| javispedro | it stops a regular ping to the client when the sink is suspended | 18:24 |
| RST38h | mmm | 18:24 |
| RST38h | Why is the sink suspended anyway? | 18:24 |
| javispedro | dunno why nokia suspends it | 18:24 |
| javispedro | but I can reproduce the bug by manually suspending it | 18:24 |
| javispedro | done it right now | 18:24 |
| RST38h | Both clients should be plaing audio | 18:24 |
| RST38h | javispedro: The actual hangup happens like this | 18:25 |
| javispedro | suspending a sink and closing a client doesn't hang on desktop | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: so | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia's audio policy is roughly to only allow the highest priority client access to audio | 18:25 |
| RST38h | javispedro: PA thread starts. It tries to open something and hangs waiting when that "something" has been already open. | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | it essentially stops whichever was the highest priority before | 18:25 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: ah, do you have the trace for that? | 18:25 |
| pupnik | ali1234 found that PA destroys sink on XRUN | 18:26 |
| RST38h | javispedro: When you exit app and close down pa, the code in pa-close function signals audio thread quit-now and then does thread-join | 18:26 |
| RST38h | javispedro: which of course never happens because the thread is hung waiting for that OTHER audio clent to finish using the resource | 18:26 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: See my comments in bug tracker - I am giving the code snippets straight out of pa source code | 18:26 |
| javispedro | pupnik: does pasuspender allow you to do the oposite action? | 18:27 |
| pupnik | do not understand the question | 18:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | w00t: ok, got it! | 18:28 |
| w00t | :-) | 18:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | gconf_client_get_bool(client, | 18:28 |
| timeless_mbp | "/apps/clock/time-format", | 18:28 |
| pupnik | pasuspender lets me talk to alsa hw device | 18:28 |
| javispedro | by suspending the PA sink | 18:28 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: you want to do this in order: | 18:29 |
| pupnik | so PA is not doing anything at all | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. localtime(); 2. gconf(); 3. strftime() | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: THAT actually sounds *much* simpler than dmix :-P | 18:29 |
| RST38h | DocScrut: they all work the same way more or less | 18:29 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: so the format is appropriate for use in strftime? | 18:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | if the bool is true, it's 24 hour pref | 18:30 |
| * RST38h just wishes none of these "solution" existed and he could simply open /dev/dsp as many times as there were channels | 18:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | in which case: | 18:30 |
| timeless_mbp | feed dgettext("hildon-libs", "wdgt_va_24h_time"), to strftime | 18:30 |
| timeless_mbp | else | 18:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | if the time struct is >11, pass dgettext("hildon-libs", "wdgt_va_12h_time_pm") to strftime | 18:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | else pass dgettext("hildon-libs", "wdgt_va_12h_time_am"), to strftime | 18:31 |
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| w00t | timeless_mbp: .. christ | 18:31 |
| lardman | re | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: code sharing at its finest ! :) | 18:31 |
| w00t | somebody needs shooting | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | what, you wanted a useful api? | 18:31 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo_make_my_date() ? | 18:32 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo_make_my_date_and_time() ? | 18:32 |
| w00t | I suppose not, this is from people who enjoy masochism | 18:32 |
| w00t | I've gotten too used to Qt | 18:32 |
| ShadowJK | locales make things difficult :) | 18:32 |
| timeless_mbp | regional preferences make things exciting | 18:32 |
| timeless_mbp | locales alone are boring :) | 18:32 |
| RST38h | w00t: autoconf! | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG | 18:32 |
| RST38h | automake! | 18:32 |
| ShadowJK | I freak out everytime something takes , as decimal separator | 18:32 |
| timeless_mbp | autobuild? | 18:32 |
| RST38h | Same here | 18:33 |
| w00t | RST38h: I'm happy to say I've kept my record to never using them intact for over a decade now | 18:33 |
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| ShadowJK | or appears to take it as decimal separator, because if you're unlucky it just ignored it as a 3 digit separator thing | 18:33 |
| RST38h | w00t: glib! | 18:33 |
| w00t | RST38h: same | 18:33 |
| ShadowJK | same goes for . too | 18:33 |
| w00t | well, I tell a lie | 18:33 |
| javispedro | RST38h: (reading bug report) actually, I'm pretty sure you could do the opposite effect by setting media.role to "event". Your app would have priority and mute the audio player. | 18:33 |
| w00t | I have used glib and gtk, but that was when I was young and foolish | 18:33 |
| ShadowJK | (getting ignored and treated as 3 digit grouping symbol) | 18:33 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Which would hang instead? =) | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-get purge locale* | 18:34 |
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| * RST38h notices that based on these rules, Maemo does not really NEED a mixer | 18:34 | |
| RST38h | Why use PA? | 18:35 |
| w00t | just to annoy you, of course | 18:35 |
| javispedro | RST38h: it still mixes all apps with same priority | 18:35 |
| RST38h | really? never noticed it | 18:35 |
| javispedro | so, if you were to open both VGB and VGBA emulators, you'd get sound for them both =) | 18:35 |
| RST38h | no, one of them actually hangs | 18:35 |
| * DocScrutinizer lolz on Konversation's "window"-"New Console" | 18:35 | |
| javispedro | oh. | 18:35 |
| RST38h | same as if I run it with mediaplayer | 18:35 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: How exactly do I set media role? | 18:36 |
| * RST38h uses pa_simple API | 18:36 | |
| Sho_ | DocScrutinizer: It's useful for people who want to keep their MUD and IRC clients together :) | 18:36 |
| javispedro | I'm trying to do that from PA console | 18:37 |
| javispedro | (yes, a sound server with console) | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | dmix also mixes arbitrary number of chan without any priority od other fancy foo | 18:37 |
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| javispedro | the priority stuff is the reason RST keeps calling the Maemo PA "broken". | 18:37 |
| RST38h | first time I hear about it actually | 18:38 |
| * DocScrutinizer fails to see what's the use of a soundserver anyway | 18:38 | |
| RST38h | but given that I have never heard Maemo PA mix any sound, it should be either broken or unnecessary | 18:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PA is unnecessary :-P | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's the right fix for the wrong üroblem | 18:40 |
| RST38h | well I dunno | 18:40 |
| villager | pulse probably allows you to route the sound dynamically to headset (wired and bluetooth) when plugging stuff in | 18:40 |
| timeless_mbp | it does | 18:40 |
| villager | not much else useful I suppose | 18:40 |
| RST38h | villager: ALSA does that | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | problem (which is ALSA has no docs so anybody understands how to use it) | 18:40 |
| timeless_mbp | it also provides a sane api | 18:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and has support etc. | 18:40 |
| RST38h | ALSA has docs | 18:40 |
| villager | RST38h: it can reroute dynamically now? didn't use to | 18:40 |
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| RST38h | But ALSA is written by insane asperger patients | 18:40 |
| javispedro | and does the weird things like muting the media player when any event is received, or mutes every other when the media player plays. | 18:41 |
| javispedro | s/every other/every other app | 18:41 |
| villager | RST38h: when did alsa get that capability? | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: I agree on that :) | 18:41 |
| RST38h | villager: Dunno, the version I used on EALinux had controls (accessible with amixer) to set where audio is being routed | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | mplayer -ao pulse works | 18:41 |
| javispedro | it can't dyncamically. | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | for x in *mp3 | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | do | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | mplayer -noconsolecontrols "$x"& | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | done | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | mplayer -ao pulse | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | currently have three songs pplaying | 18:42 |
| javispedro | RST38h: how to forbid VGBA from pausing when the window is deactivated? | 18:42 |
| javispedro | it also closes the pa stream so it mangles my tests | 18:42 |
| RST38h | javispedro: originally, with -nosaver | 18:42 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I do not remember if the Maemo version abides that though | 18:42 |
| RST38h | well it is made to close pa stream | 18:43 |
| villager | RST38h: that's probably just for another plug on the same sound chip... talking about routing to completely different alsa devices here, one driven by physical chip, another emulated by bluetooth software | 18:43 |
| w00t | hm | 18:43 |
| RST38h | VGBA is smart and well trained over the years not to screw people over =) | 18:43 |
| javispedro | yeah, makes sense. | 18:43 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: is there a way to retrieve system *date* format? | 18:43 |
| RST38h | villager: Oh, dunno about this onew | 18:43 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: eh? | 18:43 |
| timeless_mbp | dgettext("hildon-libs", "wdgt_va_date"), ? | 18:44 |
| villager | if alsa could do that, then pulse would be unneeded | 18:44 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: hm, probably, let me try | 18:44 |
| javispedro | RST38h: vgba -nosaver does nothing, seems. | 18:44 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: sorry, please remember that 'system' is utterly meaningless | 18:44 |
| timeless_mbp | if you mean 'maemo date format' | 18:44 |
| timeless_mbp | then that's what you want | 18:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | villager: ALSA can route to concurrent destinations, and it can mute each of them. It can NOT switch destination on the fly | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/destination/sink/g | 18:45 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: villager: ALSA can route to concurrent sinks, and it can mute each of them. It can NOT switch sink on the fly | 18:45 |
| javispedro | RST38h: my emu works fine here (SDL which uses PA "complex" API) | 18:46 |
| javispedro | two instances, both get mixed. | 18:46 |
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| javispedro | actually, when running both vgb and vgba none hangs (but due to -saver I can't hear them mixed) | 18:48 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: Oh, true | 18:51 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Actually, there is a bit in a gconf variable that you can turn to disable cpu saving | 18:52 |
| RST38h | But I am no sure you want to flip it... | 18:52 |
| javispedro | it seems the maemo PA policy doesn't allow for stuff to be changed at runtime | 18:53 |
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| javispedro | na, setting media.role event just sets loud volume but is still not enough to get higher priority | 18:59 |
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| villager | just to check, I don't suppose anyone would find the program I wrote this weekend useful (I call it "CyborgEye")? currently it shows live video from the main cam, allows you to freeze a frame by pressing Space, and zoom in by tapping on an interesting spot, and save by hitting S | 19:00 |
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| villager | gonna add more features over the coming months I suspect, just wondering if it would be useful now | 19:00 |
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| pusling | hi peoples | 19:01 |
| pusling | can I somehow with qt4 maemo get a 'event' of some kind if the device(n900) has open keyboard? and if it is held horizontal or vertical ? | 19:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder where hte 'tap' events come out. | 19:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | taps on the phone - or if it's unimplemented in the application layer | 19:03 |
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| VDVsx | pusling, for rotation see: http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-rotation.html | 19:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | cat /proc/interrupts|grep lis | 19:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | then tap the phone a couple fo times firmly on hte edge | 19:03 |
| SpeedEvil | and then cat again | 19:03 |
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| VDVsx | pusling, open keyboard is a dbus event, IIRC | 19:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | it's not /dev/input/* | 19:04 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: what you mean? it's not /dev/input/ts? | 19:05 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: not the touchscreen. | 19:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: the accellerometer has a mode where it interrupts on detecting a tap event. | 19:06 |
| javispedro | ah | 19:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: This is enabled in hardware - but I haven't chased down the stack to see where it emerges. | 19:06 |
| javispedro | list302dl is fixed at "1" here | 19:07 |
| PaveH | Hi all! it seems that the mail sw in my N900 sends stupid localized e-mail reply headers. If I'm right this is against the rfc? At least it breaks threads in many other applications. Any idea on how to set them without changing the language? :/ | 19:07 |
| javispedro | s/list/lis | 19:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | maybe you have to echo 'on' >/sys/class/i2c-adaptor/i2c-3/3-001d/enable | 19:08 |
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| dexen | what's the name of the module that drives the Bluetooth chip? | 19:09 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: hmm - no - that's not it | 19:09 |
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| * SpeedEvil hates things that don't work for no apparent reason. | 19:12 | |
| koala_man | so I have this weird issue trying pygame on the N900: http://pastebin.com/d3107baa4 if there's a sleep before music playing, it just fails to play. the same thing works on a pc | 19:13 |
| cpscotti | villager: u are using opencv? or thinking about using? Or just the native/raw api for the cam? | 19:13 |
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| dotblank | hmm I think I found a bug.. when calling using skype credit The telephone number has to have a + in front of it. Otherwise it says it is incorrect. Now most of my contacts do not have the + in front of them | 19:16 |
| dotblank | is there a way to fix that | 19:16 |
| javispedro | my telco doesn't let me dial any number without the + while on roaming, so I'm not sure it's a bug. | 19:20 |
| * dexen seconds javispedro | 19:20 | |
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| dexen | i think it's exactly like the difference between local path (foo/bar/baz.txt) and an absolute one (/home/LOGIN/foo/bar/baz.txt) | 19:21 |
| dexen | the `+' denoting the root of the phone system | 19:21 |
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| villager | cpscotti: just using video4linux | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | dexen: to the point. +1 | 19:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might add it's up to your carrier if they have any notion of your "CWD" or simply disallow relative path | 19:32 |
| lardman | nasty horrible C++ code | 19:33 |
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| villager | cpscotti: but I could look at opencv, though it's not in maemo yet | 19:33 |
| villager | could perhaps do something interesting with it I suppose | 19:34 |
| cpscotti | villager: yep.. I'm thinking the same.. in a way I'm waiting for someone to do the job of porting it.. | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | for GSM the 'CWD' is your home country usually, so you can use local prefix + areacode | 19:34 |
| cpscotti | I think it would trigger many new pics/videos/augmented reality stuff | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | for landline it's your geographic area | 19:35 |
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| dexen | argh | 19:35 |
| dexen | SDK installation barfed & died | 19:35 |
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| dexen | does it install correctly at all on non-debian systems? | 19:35 |
| mikhas | dexen, probably not | 19:38 |
| dexen | bah | 19:39 |
| dexen | the only debian-alike stuff i have anywhere nearby me | 19:39 |
| dexen | is the n900 itself | 19:39 |
| mikhas | cant you install a vm with a debian installation? | 19:40 |
| dexen | installing isn't a problem | 19:41 |
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| dexen | daily use/customization/integration/administration is | 19:42 |
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| dexen | i'm accustomed to homogenous environment w/ simple systems :( | 19:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | dockane_: fwiw | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | err | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: fwiw | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | when i roam, i can dial geographically local numbers w/o the intl prefix | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | which means that i have to ensure my phone numbers are internationally prefixed | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise they go to random local places | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch that's insane, but rather specific to the abroad carrier you are using for roaming | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | a general rule of thumb might be to use FQN on mobile devices | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | they obviously think it's useful | 19:59 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 19:59 | |
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| timeless_mbp | it has its uses | 19:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it never hurts but sometimes saves you quite some headache | 19:59 |
| timeless_mbp | it means when some local yocal sends me a vCard by BT | 19:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i can call them right away | 19:59 |
| lcuk | so how do you cure the problem of existing data | 19:59 |
| timeless_mbp | otoh, i'd much prefer for my address book to late me fix all non FQNs by offering to let me assign it the cc Prefix for {pick country from drop down, with guess based on vCard} | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: ^^ | 20:00 |
| lcuk | i would expect a conversion could take your current localized numbers and change to a prefix you specifiy | 20:00 |
| lcuk | well yeah thats for existing stuff | 20:00 |
| lcuk | new items can simply check for country upon entry | 20:00 |
| lcuk | if i am in .fi it should use the .fi prefix etc | 20:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | sadly afaiu you don't really know where a phone number is going when you make it | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | and you also don't necessarily get a FQN when you receive it | 20:01 |
| lcuk | yeah thats the point | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | (people have shown me that some carriers are really stupid like that) | 20:01 |
| lcuk | but i wouldnt give you my UK number if we were talking in .fi | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | you wouldn't? | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | if that's the vCard you have, you might | 20:01 |
| lcuk | i'd give you +44 version | 20:01 |
| timeless_mbp | not remembering it's broken | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: what will that get me when I process my Taiwan busoiiness cards in Germany?? | 20:01 |
| lcuk | your business cards should be in international format already shouldnt they | 20:02 |
| lcuk | or are your business contacts so introverted, or is this a spec problem | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | on inbound it *should* be FQN all the time | 20:03 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: it isn't <period> | 20:04 |
| timeless_mbp | providers suck. | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno about the problems of my Taipei business contacts. Neither baut their business cards | 20:04 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: have you actually encountered taipei cards? | 20:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure | 20:05 |
| timeless_mbp | are they FQN? | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually kinda, yes | 20:05 |
| timeless_mbp | *kinda*?? | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd actually expect them to be if they were business travellers | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | note that actually the easiest case for a botch is this: | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | though Taiwan has an insane "FQN" format | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | Person A visits me in .FI | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | I say "hey, i'm going to .uk soon" | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | Person A says "oh, you should visit Person B, lemme give you his card" | 20:06 |
| timeless_mbp | he does, but his card for Person B isn't FQN | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | because Person B doesn't travel | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | it's just in his phone | 20:07 |
| dexen | timeless_mbp: try using a car analogy :P | 20:07 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 20:07 | |
| timeless_mbp | dexen: ok, i can do that | 20:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Finland recently (..) joined the EU | 20:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | they offered new license plates to all cars here | 20:08 |
| timeless_mbp | those places indicate your country (FI), but you don't have to take them | 20:08 |
| timeless_mbp | if you don't, you can't really travel outside FI to the rest of EU (i guess, dunno, never tried, but it would make sense) | 20:09 |
| * dexen is ashamed for making a wrong joke at the wrong moment o-o;; | 20:09 | |
| lcuk | dexen, that wasnt a joke | 20:09 |
| lcuk | that was a serious proposal | 20:09 |
| lcuk | i am thankful for the clarification | 20:09 |
| timeless_mbp | now, when someone from .FI drives their car to .EE (estonia) | 20:09 |
| lcuk | i didnt understand what timeless was on about until then ;) | 20:10 |
| * DocScrutinizer curses mindboggling formats like "+49 (0)911 111111" | 20:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: yeah, they're blood annoying | 20:10 |
| dexen | lcuk: that was a /. based joke :< | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | they might happen to give me a note "you can look for the license plate XXX" | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | (for "my sibling's car") | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | but if the sibling didn't upgrade from national to EU plates | 20:10 |
| timeless_mbp | then the sibling's car isn't unique where we meet (in EE) | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | now, the more useful case is if the sibling's car is reported stolen | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm the policy officer in EE | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | but :) | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | you asked for a car example, and there you have it | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | n.b.: i don't have a license, or a car, and i have no siblings living in .eu, let alone .fi/.ee | 20:12 |
| lcuk | timeless, the format is usually something like "getting localized phone numbers from contacts is like using diesel in your electric car" | 20:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | bah | 20:12 |
| javispedro | hm.. | 20:12 |
| * w00t blinks | 20:13 | |
| timeless_mbp | if you're going to do a car analogy that way | 20:13 |
| w00t | what have I walked into | 20:13 |
| javispedro | RST38h: in fact, even pa_simple_drain hangs here when using media player | 20:13 |
| javispedro | usual place: #3 0x4001a4a4 in pa_threaded_mainloop_wait (m=0x75030) | 20:13 |
| javispedro | at pulse/thread-mainloop.c:201 | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | it's closer to a rod without the proper screw notches | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | (screw notches of any kind) | 20:13 |
| javispedro | basically, I guess every app using pulseaudio is expected to just hang. | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: is this pulse thing on the main ui? | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | s/main ui/ui thread/ | 20:15 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: javispedro: is this pulse thing on the ui thread? | 20:15 |
| uhsf | Nokia releases GPS navigation for Symbian but _not_ for Maemo. Nokia owning Symbian really is the most painful thing to swallow after buying a N900. | 20:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | uhsf: err | 20:15 |
| timeless_mbp | you realize nokia has had symbian phones for ages | 20:15 |
| * DocScrutinizer points to http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-May/005594.html | 20:15 | |
| javispedro | timeless: I guess it depends on the app, ie my emus do not. | 20:15 |
| timeless_mbp | owning symbian is a pretty useless statement | 20:15 |
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| javispedro | arggggh | 20:16 |
| uhsf | no it's really annoying for true open source fans | 20:16 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: which of course doesn't work at all for american phone numbers :) | 20:16 |
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| * Arkenoi wonders why people keep spamming ussd bug at bmo. | 20:17 | |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: there's a great quote for that | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly, people are stupid | 20:17 |
| apol | ever since I updated the firmware I'm getting crashes every time I take a picture with my n900. Is that known? | 20:18 |
| jebba | Arkenoi: because it is a *vital* feature for some people. I think they can't even charge up their fones and for some it reportedly completely breaks making fone calls. | 20:18 |
| jebba | i bet 95% of people "spamming" that have never filed anything with bugzilla though. | 20:18 |
| Arkenoi | jebba: it is vital, but it is known and reported. if you have nothing to say, there is "vote". | 20:18 |
| jebba | so they have no clue about wtf bugzilla even is. | 20:18 |
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| jebba | i'm sure they'll get a good lurnin' done to them though ;) | 20:19 |
| jebba | i'll go vote for it ;) | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: it's hard to teach customers | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | they don't tend to appreciate lessons | 20:19 |
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| jebba | looks like it's got a good number of duplicates... | 20:20 |
| jebba | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357 | 20:20 |
| povbot` | Bug 5357: Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# | 20:20 |
| javispedro | ok, this is fun | 20:20 |
| jebba | ah cool, its fixed | 20:20 |
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| javispedro | this is fun, fun, fun. | 20:21 |
| javispedro | marbles is a VIP application | 20:21 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi / javispedro / jebba : https://bugs.maemo.org/duplicates.cgi | 20:21 |
| javispedro | even if it's using SDL, it doesn't hang. | 20:21 |
| jebba | youch, not til pr1.2. So anyway, you'll get tons more reports until then.... ;) | 20:21 |
| javispedro | nor it's muted. | 20:21 |
| javispedro | nothing. | 20:21 |
| javispedro | VIP! | 20:21 |
| Firebird | :o | 20:21 |
| jebba | heh cool | 20:22 |
| timeless_mbp | it could be worse, check out 2557 | 20:22 |
| timeless_mbp | tm=harm | 20:22 |
| * javispedro crashes pulseaudio | 20:23 | |
| javispedro | ouch. | 20:23 |
| jebba | heh, 6 duplicates of an INVALID ;) | 20:23 |
| LuserN800 | worst job: bug triage at ubuntu.. | 20:23 |
| jebba | javispedro: i was using pulseaudio as a jack client ;) | 20:23 |
| jebba | though i couldnt get jack to run in --realtime for some reason (looks like the kernel is configured to allow that) | 20:24 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone figure out why https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7868 has so many dupes? | 20:24 |
| povbot` | Bug 7868: De-select a piece when clicking a second time | 20:24 |
| timeless_mbp | did he hit commit 6 times or something? | 20:24 |
| javispedro | on a b.m.o bad day, that could happen to everyone. | 20:25 |
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| * RST38h moos | 20:26 | |
| RST38h | HAA kinda works now | 20:26 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: the user submitted the bug multiple times, so multiple DUPLICATES had to be filed for one report. It was probably during the period when you couldn't tell if bugzilla accepted your post or not (it would report a bArf error, but still submit). | 20:26 |
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| micke | could someone enlighten me as to what went wrong here: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b | 20:26 |
| javispedro | RST38h: have you seen Marbles? | 20:27 |
| micke | oops: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libopenspotify_20100124-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 20:27 |
| javispedro | it's not muted when the media player plays. | 20:27 |
| javispedro | it uses PA. | 20:27 |
| javispedro | the policy "enforcer" seems to give it VIP status ("policy.group=game"). | 20:27 |
| javispedro | I'm trying to guess why. | 20:27 |
| javispedro | And I hope it's not a hardcoded binary name or the like. | 20:27 |
| javispedro | (though seeing it hardcoded on the window manager, on the games launcher, on ... ) | 20:27 |
| * javispedro bangs head | 20:29 | |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: you think games shouldn't get preferential treatment? | 20:29 |
| javispedro | [stream] | 20:29 |
| javispedro | property = application.process.arg0@equals:"/usr/bin/Mahjong" | 20:29 |
| javispedro | group = game | 20:29 |
| fdv | is gdb available somewhere for n900@/ maemo 5? | 20:29 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Offscr marbles? | 20:29 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: osso-lmarbles | 20:29 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: as long as other games can be tagged as games | 20:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't see a problem | 20:29 |
| javispedro | timeless: requires editing /etc file | 20:30 |
| timeless_mbp | having defined classes w/ sample apps is ok | 20:30 |
| RST38h | javispedro: no, never tried 'em | 20:30 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: file a bug if there's no way of doing it safely using a .d/ directory | 20:30 |
| javispedro | timeless: and I'm sick of marbles being hardcoded _everywhere_ | 20:30 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: that's not nearly as bad as they could have done it! | 20:30 |
| javispedro | when ALMOST everything that applies to marbles applies perfectly to any SDL app. | 20:30 |
| timeless_mbp | at least they map to a group | 20:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | and you can enter the group | 20:31 |
| * RST38h is no SDL app =) | 20:31 | |
| javispedro | I have to wonder if I can enter it through a PA proplist or the policy enforcer will mangle it | 20:31 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm sure if i tried hard enough i could make an SDL app that shouldn't get game priority | 20:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | javispedro: please check | 20:31 |
| timeless_mbp | definitely worth noting | 20:31 |
| javispedro | timeless: it's not only about priority, but workarounds in the window manager. | 20:31 |
| javispedro | or even in the games-launcher. | 20:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | that games launcher is buggy, sadly, does not shock me | 20:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i believe i've filed a number of bugs against it :/ | 20:32 |
| javispedro | in this case, it's hgw the buggy one. | 20:32 |
| javispedro | (i filed a patch for this iirc) | 20:32 |
| * javispedro stops ranting and starts coding... | 20:33 | |
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| javispedro | fdv: btw, gdb is available in the tools repo http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/g/gdb/ | 20:37 |
| javispedro | it's nearly 4Mib so you may want to maemo-optify-deb it first. | 20:37 |
| micke | it seems that this package fails because it cant find a file which is included in the package it self: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libopenspotify_20100124-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 20:38 |
| micke | does anyone have any idea how i can fix this? | 20:38 |
| micke | it works fine to build it in scratchbox with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b | 20:39 |
| * jebba goes to look. micke | 20:40 | |
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| micke | thanx jebba :) | 20:40 |
| jebba | spotify/api.h perhaps you need to add something like Build-Depends: libspotify-dev | 20:40 |
| jebba | or whatever package contains the file spotify/api.h | 20:40 |
| micke | in libopenspotify i have Depends: libssl-dev, libvorbisfile3, zlib1g-dev, libopenspotify (= ${Source-Version}) | 20:41 |
| fdv | javispedro: thanks | 20:41 |
| pupnik | javispedro: what contains "maemo-optify-deb"? i do it by hand atm | 20:41 |
| jebba | micke: you probably need libopenspotify-dev to get the headers. | 20:41 |
| javispedro | pupnik: "maemo-optify" in -devel iirc. | 20:42 |
| micke | ok, thanks i'll try that | 20:42 |
| pupnik | ty | 20:42 |
| jebba | micke: and also libopenspotify isn't in the repo, AFAICT, unless it's non-free | 20:42 |
| jebba | i don't see where you get libopenspotify from either, for that matter. | 20:42 |
| jebba | ah! | 20:43 |
| micke | no this is the package i'm trying to build along with libopenspotify-dev :) | 20:43 |
| jebba | nvm, i see you are *building* libopenpotiy. | 20:43 |
| micke | yes :) | 20:43 |
| jebba | so don't change that depends line, it is ok. | 20:43 |
| jebba | does libopenspotify contain spotify/api.h ? | 20:43 |
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| micke | jebba: yes | 20:43 |
| jebba | uh, no it doesn't actually | 20:44 |
| jebba | there is no spotify subdir in https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libopenspotify_20100124-1/sources/libopenspotify_20100124-1.tar.gz | 20:45 |
| micke | it doesnt? | 20:45 |
| micke | then thats my problem then :) | 20:45 |
| jebba | maybe tar gone wrong when that file was made. | 20:45 |
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| jebba | looks like it ya, | 20:45 |
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| micke | nah, its located a couple of dirs up in the source tree | 20:45 |
| micke | i'll change a couple of things around :) | 20:46 |
| jebba | there is no api.h in there either. | 20:46 |
| micke | jebba its in openspotify/include/spotify | 20:46 |
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| micke | and i'm trying to build openspotify/libopenspotify | 20:47 |
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| alterego | Are all the repositories down? | 20:48 |
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| alterego | Oh I know what's wrong. | 20:48 |
| jebba | micke: in the tarball on the build box there are *no* subdirectories at all, except for debian/ | 20:48 |
| micke | jebba: I know, it's a superdir to the one i'm building, thats my problem, fixing it now | 20:49 |
| LuserN800 | does anyone know why perl is not installable on diablo? | 20:50 |
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| LuserN800 | perl: Depends: perl-base (= 5.8.3-3osso7) but 5.8.3-3osso9 is to be installed | 20:51 |
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| javispedro | ok, done | 20:53 |
| javispedro | "x-maemo-game-hack-on-a-hack","yes", | 20:53 |
| javispedro | na, policy.group can't be set from an app (understandably) | 20:53 |
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| MohammadAG | liking the tunewiki-community app | 20:55 |
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| javispedro | so | 20:58 |
| javispedro | RST38h: put this http://maemo.pastebin.com/m582b52f8 into /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf | 20:59 |
| javispedro | and you get rid of both the muting and the freezing. | 21:00 |
| javispedro | er.. this: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m296222bc | 21:03 |
| javispedro | gonna update the bug and propose the (lengthly) solution | 21:03 |
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| * Stskeeps waves from .fi | 21:03 | |
| frals | o/ | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | also, a n900 really needs a ethernet adaptor | 21:04 |
| alterego | ffs, you try and do a work around and pymaemo doesn't even have full implementation of the classs I need to do the work around. I just wasted a few hours .. Nice .. | 21:05 |
| frals | alterego: what are you trying to accomplish with evolution? | 21:06 |
| alterego | Single selection it is ... For now ... | 21:06 |
| alterego | frals: evolution bit is done now :) | 21:06 |
| frals | ah ok :) | 21:06 |
| * w00t raises an eyebrow at alterego | 21:07 | |
| w00t | Stskeeps: o/ | 21:07 |
| alterego | This is some hildon widgets missing functionailty, and there being no python osso-abook implementation | 21:07 |
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| alterego | w00t: ? | 21:07 |
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| w00t | alterego: what's wrong with pymaemo? | 21:07 |
| frals | anyway the pymaemo team is in #pymaemo at times, and im sure they are happy to get patches ;) | 21:07 |
| alterego | frals: well, the functionailty I require is apparently in extras-devel .. | 21:08 |
| alterego | But as I'm developing on the device, I don't really want to enable devel | 21:08 |
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| frals | im developing on device and have yet to encounter a problem with having -devel enabled ;o | 21:09 |
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| lcuk | ahhh the green flashing in liqbase only occurs during the compositing moves, whilst a transition is in progress for instance | 21:10 |
| alterego | Sure, but if I'm developing for users ... :P | 21:10 |
| * lcuk heads for the right chan, sorry | 21:10 | |
| frals | any lib you depend on gets promoted along with the app doesnt it? | 21:11 |
| frals | (which package is it?) | 21:11 |
| alterego | python-hildon? I think. | 21:12 |
| Kegetys | blah... I wish the answer, and especially reject call buttons would require a swipe instead of just a tap... too easy to press them when taking the phone out of the pocket :/ | 21:12 |
| alterego | I've not got around to packaging it yet. | 21:12 |
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| Kegetys | and I bet the phone app is closed soure like everything interesting so I cannot change that myself :P | 21:14 |
| seiflotfy | we need help getting zeitgeist to run on maemo | 21:14 |
| seiflotfy | can some1 help us out | 21:14 |
| seiflotfy | ? | 21:14 |
| keesj | what is zeitgeist | 21:15 |
| keesj | zeitgeist-core - activity logging service? | 21:15 |
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| pupnik | http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4917 Beautiful homemade usb keyboard with trackpoint! | 21:22 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 21:24 | |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: so about 5357 | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | i think i'm going start disabling accounts | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | starting with sam from comment 116 | 21:25 |
| keesj | that guy needs to learn about http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4917 | 21:25 |
| keesj | http://wmii.suckless.org/ that is | 21:26 |
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| dimitris82z | hi all | 21:27 |
| dimitris82z | i just create an application in maemo 5 sdk on fedora 12 x64. I tried to run it on scratchbox but i forgot to put some icon, is there any terminal on the maemo 5 sdk ? | 21:28 |
| javispedro | timeless: just because he's spreading lies? :) | 21:28 |
| timeless_mbp | no, because i needed to send a message. | 21:29 |
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| dimitris82z | is there any way to test it ? | 21:29 |
| dimitris82z | can anyone help me about this? | 21:30 |
| javispedro | dimitris82z: aren't you looking at [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86] prompt? | 21:30 |
| javispedro | isnt that a terminal? | 21:30 |
| dimitris82z | javispedro, nods but can i test it from there? am i need to test it on the gui of the maemo ? | 21:30 |
| dimitris82z | javispedro, this is my first app so i dont know the way | 21:31 |
| javispedro | use run-standalone.sh /path/to/your/binary | 21:31 |
| dimitris82z | javispedro, thnx man | 21:31 |
| javispedro | is the GUI showing up somewhere? | 21:31 |
| alterego | Hrm, TouchSelector doesn't even have a way to remove items :( | 21:32 |
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| alterego | Oh, I should be able to do it via the model I think .. | 21:33 |
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| Kegetys | how long should it take for garage registration email to arrive | 21:34 |
| villager | cpscotti: opencv is only optimized for intel it seems, no arm stuff... it's going to run really slow | 21:36 |
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| pupnik | http://www.guru-board.com/english/configurator_en [ Configurator – The Miniguru – Always on the Home Row ] | 21:37 |
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| cpscotti | villager: well.. they say it is "more" optimized to intel cpus but it runs pretty fast on AMD cpus also.. | 21:37 |
| villager | cpscotti: AMD cpus also support sse as used on intel, don't it? | 21:37 |
| villager | cpscotti: so I mean optimized for intel instruction set | 21:38 |
| villager | or intel architecture | 21:38 |
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| cpscotti | villager: ahh.. I see.. but I already heard of people using it on arms.... | 21:38 |
| cpscotti | well.. I'll try someday then | 21:38 |
| odin_ | are there any other side effects to setting vdso32=0 on kernel command line of workstation which runs scratchbox ? does glibc and 32bit binaries fallback to methods used before VDSO existed ? | 21:39 |
| lcuk | to use a car analogy, opencv will run on arm about as well as putting diesel in a petrol | 21:39 |
| lcuk | or so i heard | 21:39 |
| cpscotti | haaha | 21:39 |
| cpscotti | lcuk: so someone already tried? | 21:39 |
| villager | cpscotti: at a reasonable performance? | 21:39 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 21:39 |
| cpscotti | dunno also.. | 21:39 |
| lcuk | you can now since you are interested | 21:39 |
| cpscotti | yep.. | 21:40 |
| lcuk | help everyone and answer the question once and for all | 21:40 |
| cpscotti | seems I'll have to try | 21:40 |
| lcuk | :) great | 21:40 |
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| villager | perhaps if someone optimized opencv with the neon/vfp stuff supported by this ARM Cortex thing | 21:41 |
| cpscotti | http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/opencv_for_maemo5/ | 21:41 |
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| lcuk | hey frade \o | 21:41 |
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| javispedro | odin_: yes, they will fallback to no vdso | 21:42 |
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| javispedro | odin_: you may want to use vdso32=2 | 21:42 |
| javispedro | or, http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2009-August/000457.html | 21:43 |
| odin_ | I am on 64bit machine (with all major 32bit libraries and many 32bit -devel packages installed on Fedora12), I'll does "2" work on 64bit kernel cmd line as well ? | 21:43 |
| javispedro | odin_: still, why you fear losing vdso support? | 21:43 |
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| javispedro | the only correct answer here is "performance concerns" :) | 21:44 |
| javispedro | nothing bad other than that will happen | 21:45 |
| javispedro | and yes, vdso32=2 works in 64bit kernels | 21:45 |
| odin_ | my concern is over possible chasing bugs and stuff when developing 32bit things, due to everyone else on 32bit using VDSO but the lib maintainers forgot to check non VDSO support, that kind of thing | 21:45 |
| odin_ | well asm I am on 64bit when I don't care so much for 32bit performance ! although I do use a 32bit Mozilla browser and 32bit Java VM for Eclipse IDE | 21:45 |
| javispedro | supposedly only glibc cares about vdso | 21:45 |
| javispedro | note that you're disabling randomized vdso only, so I doubt anything bad happens | 21:46 |
| aep | are there any offline maps? | 21:46 |
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| shiznebit | only for symbian | 21:49 |
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| lcuk | offline maps? | 21:50 |
| timeless_mbp | wow | 21:50 |
| timeless_mbp | nice readership | 21:50 |
| lcuk | sure, download a cache for your country | 21:50 |
| lcuk | and save mobile download | 21:50 |
| * timeless_mbp sends bugmail to 207 people | 21:51 | |
| timeless_mbp | announcing that one person was banned and two others were given warnings | 21:51 |
| timeless_mbp | 23 people have chosen not to receive my bugmail | 21:51 |
| timeless_mbp | for reference: there is now, for the duration of my admin privs (potentially one day) | 21:52 |
| timeless_mbp | a three strikes and you're out policy in bugs.maemo.org | 21:52 |
| aep | lcuk: hm? | 21:52 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: so what MB# is the battlefield? | 21:53 |
| timeless_mbp | 5357 | 21:53 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll publish a blog entry somewhere | 21:53 |
| lcuk | aep, http://handphone-solution.blogspot.com/2009/07/direct-download-for-ovi-maps-30-without.html | 21:53 |
| aep | lcuk: yes, but those are for symbian | 21:53 |
| javispedro | I love the "ABUSED BUGZILLA" tag in big letters | 21:54 |
| javispedro | s/big/capital | 21:54 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: hey, it needs to be clear what happened to him | 21:54 |
| lcuk | bug #5357 | 21:54 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357 Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# | 21:54 |
| javispedro | povbot is away since maemo was set +R | 21:54 |
| lcuk | wheres bot gone? | 21:54 |
| lcuk | ohffs | 21:54 |
| timeless_mbp | and yes, as a feature, an admin can do pretty much anything to an account | 21:54 |
| *** goshawk has quit IRC | 21:55 | |
| lcuk | someone get suppy a login | 21:55 |
| *** oscillik has joined #maemo | 21:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | i can change the email address, impersonate him, change his password | 21:55 |
| lcuk | link plz | 21:55 |
| *** Marks has quit IRC | 21:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: if you can't get to the bug yourself, you have no business trying to get there | 21:55 |
| lcuk | bah! | 21:55 |
| javispedro | lcuk: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357#c119 | 21:55 |
| povbot` | Bug 5357: Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# | 21:55 |
| javispedro | (see, my good deed of the day) | 21:56 |
| lcuk | thanks javispedro :D you are really helpful and saved vnc copy paste fails | 21:56 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: a 4 digit number? | 21:57 |
| timeless_mbp | surely you can type it with your bare fingers | 21:57 |
| lcuk | its the rest of the link i didnt have to hand | 21:57 |
| javispedro | well, tbh, scrolling to the bottom in microb is quite hard | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | you can search for 'abused' | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: or you can change your bug reading order | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i read bugs newest to oldest | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=settings | 21:59 |
| ShadowJK | where's povbot? | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | When viewing a bug, show comments in this order | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: povbot` doesn't have nickserv | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | so it's silenced | 21:59 |
| javispedro | that would confuse me for a day or two | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | see a few minutes ago | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: you get used to it | 22:00 |
| ShadowJK | who owns povbot? | 22:01 |
| ShadowJK | or anyone with +o feel like +v him? | 22:01 |
| timeless_mbp | does that work against +R ? | 22:01 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't know +R at all | 22:02 | |
| RevdKathy | So what does one have to do to be banned from bug-filing> | 22:02 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: you don't get banned from bug filing | 22:02 |
| *** K_Fjutscha has quit IRC | 22:03 | |
| timeless_mbp | you get banned from commenting, attaching, bug filing, cc'ing yourself, voting | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | logging in | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | changing your status | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | changing your password | 22:03 |
| RevdKathy | No? I was rather hoping I might - it would spare me a lot of anxiety! | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't remember what it does to email | 22:03 |
| RevdKathy | ] | 22:03 |
| javispedro | timeless: want to bet anything? (*gets ready to fill 3000 duplicated bug reports*) | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | you might still get email actually :) | 22:03 |
| *** Marks has joined #maemo | 22:03 | |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: my point is that it doesn't ban you from *just* filing | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | it bans you from *everything* | 22:03 |
| RevdKathy | I didn't get it | 22:03 |
| timeless_mbp | you can't log in. | 22:04 |
| javispedro | a | 22:04 |
| javispedro | :P | 22:04 |
| RevdKathy | I'm logged in already - so Bugzilla is watching me | 22:04 |
| javispedro | is your phone trying to kill you? --- news at #5357 | 22:05 |
| odin_ | get povbot to authentate itself, someone setup an account for it | 22:05 |
| aep | humm ovi maps doesnt have voice at all? | 22:06 |
| ShadowJK | ooh, just crashed the browser. A ajax-heavy site, opened options adjust view, tried to tap away adjust view by tapping outside, no reaction, tapped "Done", it was left highlighted, so browser was probably busy.. I switched away with ctrl-backspace and shortly after browser crashed :) | 22:07 |
| odin_ | aep, not yet and not date set for when it will, but MAYBE before Maemo5 is end-of-life | 22:07 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: when your account is disabled, your existing login tokens are trashed | 22:07 |
| ShadowJK | I'm starting to see a pattern... don't ctrl-backspace away from browser when it,s busy | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: install crash-reporter? | 22:08 |
| aep | odin_: :D | 22:08 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: yeah, I think I saw that too. | 22:08 |
| RevdKathy | So how wicked do I have to be for that, timeless_mbp? | 22:08 |
| javispedro | it's rather uncommon, though. | 22:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: lemme finnish writing my post | 22:08 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp: I have. It no longer lets me add comments to crash reports though | 22:08 |
| RevdKathy | 'k timeless_mbp | 22:08 |
| ShadowJK | Wait, you get banned for adding yourself to cc? | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: no | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | but once your account is disabled, you can't do *anything* | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and please note that cc'ing yourself to a bug is noisy | 22:09 |
| javispedro | yeah | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | proper behavior for a big bug is to vote instead | 22:09 |
| javispedro | voting it is not | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | that's silent | 22:09 |
| javispedro | :) | 22:09 |
| ShadowJK | I go "aieeee!" each time OI add myself to cc just because I want to keep track of a bug, and see everyone is emailed :/ | 22:10 |
| * ShadowJK just wanted to stalk a bug, not notify half the world "HEY THIS NOBODY IS WATCHING YOU" | 22:11 | |
| ShadowJK | but then I tend to forget how various bugtracker software behaves :/ | 22:12 |
| ShadowJK | and do it again in a few months | 22:12 |
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| range | Jetzt aber. | 22:13 |
| RevdKathy | ShadowJK - now I have an image of you stalking a big beetle with a giant butterfly net! | 22:13 |
| range | Erks. | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/171/ | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | et al. | 22:13 |
| * timeless_mbp needs to fix something w/ the html markup | 22:14 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Ok. Fennec works. It's a little unstable - especially with several tabs open. | 22:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | Has anyone gotten youtube+html5 working on it? | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: it wouldn't | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | fennec / mozilla don't support h264 | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | please read /. | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it has links to mozilla's position | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | that doesn't mean that a future fennec won't | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | merely that as it happens no mozilla's have it today for reasons of principle | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | and the gstreamer work isn't done | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | /. scrolls a bit fast | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | fair enough - it 'worked' on some test videos | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | too slow, too fast | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | because those use Ogg Vorbis/Theora | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | YouTube uses h264 | 22:16 |
| SpeedEvil | yes,I understand. | 22:16 |
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| ShadowJK | it uses the xiph libs directly now? | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Fennec supports <html:video> | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: define 'directly' | 22:16 |
| SpeedEvil | not the required codecs | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't remember if we statically link xiph or just include our own libs | 22:16 |
| ShadowJK | timeless: instead of gstreamer, ffmpeg, dshow, vfw and stuff like that | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | we do not use system libs | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: always has, to the extent we've supported ogg | 22:17 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 22:17 |
| timeless_mbp | or <video> for that matter | 22:17 |
| ShadowJK | Anyone remember when people had background .mid's playing on websites? :-) | 22:17 |
| javispedro | they're back??!?!? | 22:18 |
| * javispedro runs | 22:18 | |
| ShadowJK | at one point netscape on linux knew how to do it, which both impressed and terrified me | 22:18 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: <audio> is coming :) | 22:18 |
| Robot101 | xxx | 22:18 |
| Robot101 | winfail | 22:18 |
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| * timeless_mbp sighs | 22:21 | |
| javispedro | "And that community might die out if there won't be any full fledge Ovi-maps application. " | 22:21 |
| javispedro | yessssss..... | 22:21 |
| javispedro | how I didn't see that before. | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | o_o | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | url? | 22:21 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 22:22 | |
| javispedro | naa, part of the latest random tmo rant | 22:22 |
| timeless_mbp | my tv video is dying again | 22:22 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=492391#post492391 | 22:22 |
| jebba | Can anyone 'splain me why this won't work? http://mas.freemoe.org/espejo-maemo-extras.install It just renders the file in the webbrowser instead of installing it. Is there some mime type i need to set on the server or something? | 22:22 |
| villager | javispedro: oh noes, I was in danger and didn't even know it, since I don't drive around in unfamiliar places | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 22:22 |
| javispedro | Content-Type: application/x-install-instructions | 22:23 |
| javispedro | (from wget -S http://repository.maemo.org/extras/install/extras.install ) | 22:23 |
| jebba | thx | 22:24 |
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| ShadowJK | What is that tmo poster yammering about? User-generated content in ovi maps or what? | 22:26 |
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| tps_ | hello... when I try to execute some dbus command from the sdk... I get "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.nokia.osso_browser was not provided by any .service files" | 22:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: no | 22:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: that the community relies on users. | 22:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: to make developers interested. | 22:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: if you don't have the great unwashed, many devs won't be that interested in the platform. | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | and if you have too many devs, it'll be dead cheese smell | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:29 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: there is a big thing to be able to think that you made 5000 peoples lives a little easier with a desktop app for 4chan. | 22:29 |
| ShadowJK | whoah where's that app? | 22:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: if 1 user uses it because it's on an unpopular platform - the dev is less likely to code it. | 22:30 |
| javispedro | i'm not _exactly_ sure on that. | 22:30 |
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| ShadowJK | frals, what do you think about your users? :-) | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, yeah but in the context of ovi maps? | 22:31 |
| frals | pling | 22:31 |
| frals | in what context? i'd like if more people would *read* instructions :( | 22:32 |
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| ShadowJK | lol :) | 22:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | tps_: are you using an sdk? | 22:33 |
| timeless_mbp | or a device? | 22:33 |
| RevdKathy | That poster worrying about the community dying out is well named. "Pity Me" - might as well be "emo kid" | 22:34 |
| javispedro | I am always surprised at the fact that the Amazon Kindle uses the PalmOS database file format. | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | because a service file exists | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | and it seems to have that contract | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: did you find my letters to your satisfaction? | 22:34 |
| RevdKathy | Just reading them, timeless_mbp | 22:35 |
| tps_ | timeless_mbp: yeah... i am on an sdk | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: i spotted one typo in the markup | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | tps_: no clue if the sdk defaults to having everything you need | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | it certainly wouldn't shock me if it didn't | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: : that users will not get to the point of possibly downloading the 4chan app - as they will see voice nav as a key feature - and get something else | 22:36 |
| RevdKathy | I ALWAYS spot one typo. Its my trademark. I used to run a quarterly contest with my preaching plan of a packet of sweeties to the first person to find an error | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | tps_: that file is from tablet-browser-ui | 22:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | do you have that package? | 22:36 |
| javispedro | aka nokia-binaries | 22:36 |
| javispedro | or nokia-apps | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: =~ s/Its/It's/ :) | 22:36 |
| javispedro | nokia apps. | 22:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: anyway, the markup wasn't sent to the victims | 22:37 |
| RevdKathy | Yeah - believe it or not the apostrophe on my laptop is jammed! I have dismantled it twice already this evening! | 22:37 |
| tps_ | timeless_mbp: yeah.. i do have that package | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | lol | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | ^C / ^V :) | 22:37 |
| SpeedEvil | RevdKathy: Ifind hoovering the keyb works | 22:37 |
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| t-tan | hi, could someone please confirm that mktemp is broken? just enter "mktemp -t foo" in your N900 Terminal and tell me the result. thanks | 22:38 |
| RevdKathy | To be honest, I'm worried about you putting off people of goodwill timeless_mbp | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | t-tan: exits with no result | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | RevdKathy: i'm willing to eat that | 22:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | bugzilla is a bug tracker, not a forum | 22:39 |
| t-tan | speedevil: ok, that means it's broken and not just my installation :( | 22:39 |
| lcuk | timeless, if that bug you are so strongly defending is handled, cant it be closed and put away instead of berating people for trying to help | 22:39 |
| RevdKathy | 'well, as the person who has already been put off, I'm not so sure | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i will burn one bad apple if that is necessary to get a better harvest | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: no | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | bugzilla has no provision to lock bugs | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | much to my decade long distress | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i can hide it | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but then people will file dupes | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i can hide comments which are noise | 22:40 |
| RevdKathy | Trouble is, once you start a fire, you run the risk of burning down the orchard | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but that's an abuse of privilege | 22:40 |
| tps_ | timeless_mbp: I figured out why it was not working. I did not launch the browser before executing the dbus command to navigate to a different page. I was thinking the command will start the browser automatically | 22:40 |
| lcuk | thats not noise though, just because you know its handled doesnt mean others do, bugzilla is complex and he gave what he thought was new info | 22:40 |
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| lcuk | that wasnt spam in my eyes | 22:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: it's spam. | 22:42 |
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| odin_ | horray I have scratchbox installed and working on 64bit Fedora12, right now for the nokia SDK | 22:43 |
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| mikhas | congrats, odin_ now code something great =) | 22:44 |
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| odin_ | mikhas, first I need to fix some already great stuff, he he | 22:45 |
| mikhas | also appreciated | 22:45 |
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| jebba | http://espejo.freemoe.org/espejo-maemo-extras.install ok, so you can just go to that in a web browser and it will install the mirror repo. :) | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | a bug is supposed to have a short life | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | about a very specific problem | 22:46 |
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| xorAxAx | btw, my scp -r /etc n900:/etc caused an instant reboot | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Should be uploading a new version of Catorise which fixes bug 8328 tonight. | 22:48 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8328 all isn't showing All applications (especially the former main screen apps) | 22:48 |
| xorAxAx | when i did it. pretty weird :) too many daemons triggering on file change notification and HUPing themselves? | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: :) | 22:48 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Also includes the new defaults for Notes & X Terminal, as discussed. But if you just upgrade, you won't see them. | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | you're sure? | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | for my apps, it triggers an uninstall + reinstall | 22:49 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: did you include a maemo mapper default? | 22:49 |
| Jaffa | xorAxAx: Why would I need to include a default? Are its section/categories totally FUBAR? | 22:49 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: it shows up under "others" | 22:49 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Hmm, will check. | 22:49 |
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| Jaffa | xorAxAx: It should show up in navigation according to its package page: http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemo-mapper/ | 22:50 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: doesnt WFM | 22:50 |
| Jaffa | xorAxAx: Let me enable -devel and test | 22:50 |
| kirma | is there "documented" interface for n900 camera control (including focus and ecposure...)? | 22:51 |
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| kirma | ah, gstreamer photography I suppose | 22:56 |
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| Damion2 | does anyone know a simple ffmpeg recipe for making an n900 mp4 in to something reasonable it can play on the PS3 ? | 22:59 |
| RevdKathy | g'night all! | 22:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | /usr/bin/gst-launch v4l2camsrc device=/dev/video0 num-buffers=1 \! video/x-raw-yuv,width=2592,height=1968 \! ffmpegcolorspace \! pngenc\! filesink location=/home/user/MyDocs/capture/test$x$y.png forex will grab a frame from the main cam | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: check for SpeedEvil's nightview modus | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh :-) | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video0:width=320:height=240 -vf eq=77:100,eq=10:100,eq=50:100,scale=160:120,denoise3d=8:6:22,eq=0:99 | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video0:width=320:height=240 -vf eq=77:100,eq=10:100,eq=50:100,scale=160:120,denoise3d=8:6:22,eq=0:99 -fps=5 | 23:01 |
| odin_ | is there a tag system for debian repos ? so that SDK release 1 versions can be retrieved ? instead of latest | 23:01 |
| odin_ | like CVS tags | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | (alter brightness with 3 or 4) | 23:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | odin_: no | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | debian is special | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, it's impossible to rebuild a repository that has grown | 23:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | because a .deb doesn't encode the versions of packages it was built against | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | just the versions it requires | 23:04 |
| dimitris82z | is there anyone that trying to port xscorch to n900 ? | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | dimitris82z: didn't it work on the n8x0 | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc eero owned the port | 23:04 |
| dimitris82z | timeless, i tried to compile it but all went ok, when i tried to run it i got this message : | 23:05 |
| odin_ | ok so running the maemo-sdk-install results in error while trying to install packages.... (well the setup phase) | 23:05 |
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| Damion2 | I can use ffmpeg -i 2010etc.mp4 -vcodec mpeg2video -acodec mp2 -sameq output.mpg, but this creates a very large file and is slow. I'd like -vcodec copy at some level | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | Damion2: isn't there a project/app/package/thing for encoding for Maemo devices? | 23:06 |
| dimitris82z | " /opt.share/xscorch//profiles.def: error: Cannot open file to load , /opt/share/xscorch//profiles.def: core dump imminent. Cannot locate datafile , "/opt/share/xscorch//profiles.def", aborting. config_new: faild to build tanks_profile, or no tanks in def file | 23:06 |
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| jebba | mailing list mail server down. | 23:08 |
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| Stskeeps | jebba: hm? | 23:09 |
| Damion2 | I want it the other way round | 23:09 |
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| jebba | Damion2: i have a couple examples here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Video#Encoding_Video | 23:09 |
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| Stskeeps | jebba: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/ WORKSFORME | 23:10 |
| Damion2 | the mpeg4/aac(mono) are sufficiently different from the e90 or n97 | 23:10 |
| Stskeeps | got a error report? | 23:10 |
| jebba | Stskeeps: well, i just got a "delay" message from the mail server about something i sent to maemo-devel this morning | 23:10 |
| Damion2 | jebba: ahha | 23:10 |
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| jebba | Stskeeps: yes, added to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5818 | 23:10 |
| povbot` | Bug 5818: We need servers | 23:10 |
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| jebba | i'm talking SMTP, not the web page. | 23:10 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: | 23:11 |
| Stskeeps | k | 23:11 |
| dotblank | hmm for vpnc where does it store the profiles. im trying to import 200+ pcfs into vpnc and I think it would be a lot easier doing it manually | 23:11 |
| Damion2 | jebba: I can only see encoding to n900 | 23:12 |
| cehteh | just normal /etc/openvpn/ | 23:12 |
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| cehteh | ah no .. wrong vpn software :P | 23:13 |
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| cehteh | forget it | 23:13 |
| jebba | Damion2: ah, gotcha. | 23:14 |
| Jaffa | dotblank: /home/user/.vpnc<something> IIRC | 23:14 |
| Damion2 | there seems to be something odd about the h264 | 23:15 |
| dotblank | Jaffa, Thank you | 23:15 |
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| Jaffa | xorAxAx: Cannot reproduce `Maemo Mapper' going into 'Other' using the package currently in Extras-devel | 23:20 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: so i delete my menu file and all should be fine | 23:21 |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: maybe it was changed | 23:21 |
| xorAxAx | there was a package update in the last days | 23:21 |
| Jaffa | xorAxAx: It should always attempt to try and find a better home for anything in 'other' every time it starts (it ignores the cached value if it's 'other') | 23:21 |
| xorAxAx | ah, well | 23:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: did you push? | 23:25 |
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| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Not yet, just doing a bit of testing | 23:26 |
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| Jaffa | Hmm, my dbus-send to ...SystemInfoprint doesn't work from within HAM | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | you mean from apt? | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | do you need run-standalone? | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | you are running as root not user | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | you probably don't have the env you expect | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | No, it worked over SSH, but not from within Application Manager | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | Seems better now. | 23:33 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: On way to extras-devel | 23:33 |
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| * timeless_mbp checks for updates | 23:36 | |
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| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Autobuilder only refreshes Packages every hour, IIRC | 23:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | cute | 23:39 |
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